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Diametric
April 9th, 2011, 04:44 AM
Hell to the yeah!

http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/112510/new-commodore-64-nyt

wolfen69
April 9th, 2011, 04:55 AM
Although there may be a certain cool factor in it, it's not in my budget right now. I have a nice desktop pc, netbook, ipod touch and psp. The last thing I need is another computer. But hey, go for it if it excites you.

Diametric
April 9th, 2011, 05:06 AM
I definitely feel your budget pain. I'm just happy that the article says that it "runs the Linux operating system but the company says you can install Windows if you like"

That, to me deserves the "hell to the yeah" - A retro device that has been upgraded to meet some older and younger folk running Linux is cool.

Cheers.

Thewhistlingwind
April 9th, 2011, 05:51 AM
The amiga? Running linux?...............Somewhere, wherever he may be, Linus Torvalds is laughing, hard.
(http://www.infoworld.com/d/adventures-in-it/true-believers-biggest-cults-in-tech-433?page=0,4)

disabledaccount
April 9th, 2011, 07:11 AM
The amiga? Running linux?...............Somewhere, wherever he may be, Linus Torvalds is laughing, hard.
(http://www.infoworld.com/d/adventures-in-it/true-believers-biggest-cults-in-tech-433?page=0,4)
You think its funny? When Amiga entered the PC market there was no competition - IBM clone PC's was 200 years after the Amiga. Most popuar model 500 had specialized chipset that allow use up to 24 DMA channels, Copper GFX coprocessor, advanced audio chipset. It was state-of-the-art design at that time - I wish today's PC would have a fraction of this technology - insteaed of 150 so called "standards" melted together without clear picture in mind.

edit: I remember a joke from that time:
"You have PC? I've heard You need a driver to use mouse... LOL"
Amiga hardware was very close to today's API - but as the API was in HW then even 7MHz CPU was sufficient for most tasks.

handy
April 9th, 2011, 07:28 AM
Commodore USA, have been trying to scam the public one way or another for sometime. Last time they tried to present technology that was established & being used by some banks & such (a computer with a keyboard built in like the C64 & the A500) as their own & as the new Amiga, which ran Linux!

Their website was crap, as were they. They came out of that one looking like an extremely small time operation that was trying to make itself look big.

A few bright senior high school students could have done a better job that Commodore USA, did last time.

It will interesting to see just how quickly this new scam dies.

Thewhistlingwind
April 9th, 2011, 07:29 AM
You think its funny? When Amiga entered the PC market there was no competition - IBM clone PC's was 200 years after the Amiga. Most popuar model 500 had specialized chipset that allow use up to 24 DMA channels, Copper GFX coprocessor, advanced audio chipset. It was state-of-the-art design at that time - I wish today's PC would have a fraction of this technology - insteaed of 150 so called "standards" melted together without clear picture in mind.

edit: I remember a joke from that time:
"You have PC? I've heard You need a driver to use mouse... LOL"
Amiga hardware was very close to today's API - but as the API was in HW then even 7MHz CPU was sufficient for most tasks.

What? The amiga was great, the joke was about the people who are waiting for amiga OS to reign supreme above all others (Again).

handy
April 9th, 2011, 07:33 AM
What? The amiga was great, the joke was about the people who are waiting for amiga OS to reign supreme above all others (Again).

So, mine is bigger than yours eh!

Diametric
April 9th, 2011, 07:39 AM
Commodore USA, have been trying to scam the public one way or another for sometime. Last time they tried to present technology that was established & being used by some banks & such (a computer with a keyboard built in like the C64 & the A500) as their own & as the new Amiga, which ran Linux!

Their website was crap, as were they. They came out of that one looking like an extremely small time operation that was trying to make itself look big.

A few bright senior high school students could have done a better job that Commodore USA, did last time.

It will interesting to see just how quickly this new scam dies.

I don't know the history, but the thought that a retro system running Linux has been designed to to grab a (potentially) wider audience thrills me. Is it a game changer? No. But I still like to see that it is in the consumer market. Bottom line - it ships with Linux and may be cool, despite its past history.

handy
April 9th, 2011, 08:23 AM
If you have a look on their website (which has improved dramatically since last time I looked) it was down when I tried twice yesterday?

Check out the Amiga section? As someone who basically cut his computing teeth on the Amiga line of computers & AmigaOS, it is easy to see that their site is scamming.

When you go to the OS section you see this:

http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_OS.aspx

They use the big red & white chequered ball (an image that became synonymous with the Amiga & AmigaOS) as the background in the OS section. They talk about all of the capacities of the system, which is quite obviously that of a distro, which has Wine installed.

Nowhere do they mention Linux on that page, they mention Amiga as they obviously own the rights to the name, they use the symbols/trade marks, as they own them too.

BUT they do NOT own the rights to AmigaOS, which is the crux of the biscuit when it comes to the Amiga.

So some gullible people will pay more money than they have to, to get a Linux machine that has names & insignias from the old Commodore line.

This is one BIG rip-off.

ebasa
April 9th, 2011, 10:52 AM
Says that it comes with an Ubuntu 10.4 disc.

handy
April 9th, 2011, 11:42 AM
I checked out the Commodore USA, forum; it looks like they are doing a re-spin of Ubuntu & calling it Workbench 5.

The genuine AmigaOS rights are owned by Hyperion Entertainment:

http://hyperion-entertainment.biz/

Who are working with Trevor Dickinson of A-EON, (amongst others) to produce a version of AmigaOS that will support the functions of the radical motherboard that is currently in testing for the AmigaONE X1000. All going well with the revision 2, motherboard, the AmigaONE X1000 will hopefully be released before this year is out.

Here is quite current overview & update on that situation:

http://amigatronics.wordpress.com/

SOONU111
April 9th, 2011, 12:00 PM
u cant program vista apps with the BASIC language .. u need to get into C++ and things like that ..

handy
April 9th, 2011, 12:39 PM
I've done some more research on the Amiga situation & that of Commodore USA. They have a pretty rough attitude on their forum for anyone who complains about what they are doing.

I've joined their forum & posted the following in their "Commodore OS Questions" thread:

"Please correct me if I'm wrong, as this is what I gather from looking at the C-USA site & having a bit of a browse of this forum:

Workbench 5, is in reality a re-spin of Ubuntu or some other Linux distro.

This re-spin (of whatever Linux distro) is being called the Commodore operating system.

Commodore USA, own the rights to the Commodore brand & a range of the C= computer names, logos & trade marks etc.

Commodore USA, don't own the rights to AmigaOS4 (at least) as Hyperion Entertainment (the developers) do.

Commodore USA, have the intention (or are in the process) of having cases made (in China?) which will use the names of previous Commodore computer names & other branding.

Commodore USA, will have these cases fitted with motherboards & the other necessary components that are required; all of which are individually currently available to the consumer from various sources.

These computers will be capable of running Windows, Linux distros, BSD, AROS, Haiku, & the other systems that will "usually" run on common hardware.

These computers will NOT be able to run AmigaOS4."

I don't expect a particularly friendly reply, though I did try to keep the questions non-judgemental, which may help tone the reply down. Time will tell.

handy
April 9th, 2011, 02:16 PM
Following is the reply from a forum moderator called Wolf_to_the_Moon, which was straight forward & respectful which is nice:



Workbench 5, is in reality a re-spin of Ubuntu or some other Linux distro.


Commodore OS is based on linux, yes. Will be developed from that.



Commodore USA, own the rights to the Commodore brand & a range of the C= computer names, logos & trade marks etc.


Yes, under licensing from Commodore Holdings Corporation.



Commodore USA, don't own the rights to AmigaOS4 (at least) as Hyperion Entertainment (the developers) do.


Yes, Hyperion owns the license on AmigaOS from Amiga Inc.



Commodore USA, have the intention (or are in the process) of having cases made (in China?) which will use the names of previous Commodore computer names & other branding.


C64x case and keyboard are made in the USA, the rest of the line I'm not sure, but probably China.



Commodore USA, will have these cases fitted with motherboards & the other necessary components that are required; all of which are individually currently available to the consumer from various sources.


The motherboards in the C64x, yes, the motherboards on the VICs are custom format by their hardware partners.



These computers will be capable of running Windows, Linux distros, BSD, AROS, Haiku, & the other systems that will "usually" run on common hardware.


Yes.



These computers will NOT be able to run AmigaOS4.


No, Amiga OS4 runs natively on Power PC CPUs, only possible under emulation.

NMFTM
April 9th, 2011, 05:18 PM
Why would someone buy a desktop that runs Intel Atom?

Old_Grey_Wolf
April 9th, 2011, 08:13 PM
These are the computers I remember from the early 80's. The Commodore 64, TRS80 Color Computer, and the Apple II. I had a TRS80 Color Computer at home and used the Apple II at work. I never used a Commodore 64. None of them ran a Microsoft OS. They all measured RAM in KB and the processors were running at approximately 1 MHz. The early ones used audio cassettes to store programs. They eventually got 80KB floppy drives. The TRS80 Color Computer and the Commodore 64 had games cartridges with games stored in ROM. :)

earthpigg
April 9th, 2011, 08:14 PM
Why would someone buy a desktop that runs Intel Atom?

-low-power home file-server.
-family member with basic needs/wants out of a computer.
-plenty powerful for school work, assuming one is not studying graphic design or similar.

earthpigg
April 9th, 2011, 08:19 PM
though, skimming this (http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/6-commodore-os-software-development/5-workbench-5-question-thread?limit=15&start=30), i do find it hilarious that they are claiming it will be some super awesome gaming platform... because it will have WINE and dual boot capability.


Our Amigas will be kick-*** game computers and, like it or not, the main gaming platform is Windows, which is why we must provide a dual boot option.

^that guy has "Commodore USA Staff" below his handle.

edit: ill just keep editing this post and adding snippets i find interesting. skimming through and only looking for stuff said by posters that the forum indicates are officially involved in the project. please read the thread linked above, itself, if you want full context.



I can tell you that Workbench 5 will have enough software and functionality out of the box to put even MacOSX to shame.
This is not your run-of-the-mill Linux distro.
We are hoping to bundle at least a dozen of the most impressive 3d games the open source community has to offer as well as provide others for download.
These are very close to commercial quality games, and some even have online components.


[claim is that it is not a run-of-the-mill linux distro because Urban Terror and a bunch of others will be installed by default and it will have a repository and package manager... what did i miss (http://ultimateedition.info/)?? or am i seeing things (http://live.linux-gamers.net/)?? :P ]


Open source world of course. Why would you re-invent the wheel? Practically every piece of hardware that comes out today has Linux support. I do not believe we will cripple the OS so it only runs on our machines, but we certainly will not claim support for anything else. Regardless of what we do there will always be hackindores.

i support this sentiment and these goals. :)



The thing that I can't get my head around is why anyone would use a tiny distro based on Ubuntu or Fedora called Workbench 5.

Say what? Tiny? Is an 8Gig Workbench install DVD too small for you?

[insert Ultimate Edition link here]


For instance, if I want to edit a configuration file, I don't want the operating system barking at me....forcing me to enter a password and likely force me to come at it from a more inconvenient angle.

above that snippet, he cited windows 7's UAC as an example of a good compromise between security and user friendliness.


I'm not saying it will be utterly amazing to Linux aficionados, but it is my hope that things will slowly add up to the point that it will answer your question decisively.

fair acknowledgement - i guess most of the above claims aren't directed at folks like us.


Well, I said we're only considering a registration scheme, possibly just for updates, just like the big boys do.

i guess there will finally be a linux distro that wants to know the names of all of it's users.... well, aside from google's two distributions.


Any enhancements we make are likely to be in user land for the foreseeable future, and may not necessarily be open source, as they wouldn't need to be.

well, that isn't very friendly: only open source when it is forced upon them.

Thewhistlingwind
April 9th, 2011, 08:21 PM
Can amigaOS even handle more then 64kb? (Ya know, if commodore USA had the rights to it.)

Edit: The vanilla amigaOS, not the updated version being produced by hyperion.

earthpigg
April 9th, 2011, 09:01 PM
http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/6-commodore-os-software-development/1254-commodore-os-questions?limit=15&start=30


We aim to create a standard and distinctive operating system experience for all our machines.
An OS that: (in no particular order)
1. has a huge software stack available as standard,
2. is consumer oriented,
3. we can grow to include further proprietary innovations in future,
4. ties into our proposed software delivery eco-system and commercial app store.
5. is optimised for and compatible with our hardware
6. is stable
7. has a Commodore and Amiga flavour to it
8. has advanced features
9. is open to community development and innovation

red hat for gamers?

lisati
April 9th, 2011, 09:07 PM
I have a couple of Commodore 128s gathering dust in the spare room. Do these count?

disabledaccount
April 9th, 2011, 09:12 PM
What? The amiga was great, the joke was about the people who are waiting for amiga OS to reign supreme above all others (Again).
oh, You are right - I haven't uderstood your point clearly.
But I think it's worth to mention that AmigaOS seemed to be Unix derivative (just f.e. drives names and enumeration). Secondary - it was probably first consumer-grade truly 32bit OS.

To be honest, I have sentiment for Amiga - I've learned programming on Amiga and I knew perfectly M68K asm - it was greatest CISC CPU ever made :)

handy
April 10th, 2011, 02:36 AM
I read a long 14 pages thread called "Workbench 5 Question thread", where the CTO was quite involved. It would seem that they wanted to work with AROS, but got a very cold reception over there. They were also warned of legal action by "I think" Hyperion Entertainment" who are the creators & license holders of AmigaOS4, though I could be wrong in regard to who was threatening Commodore USA, as the CTO only hinted.

They have good reasons for basing their "Commodore OS" on Linux, though they are in the game to make as much money as they possibly can & are investigating ways to stop everyone else being able to use their distro.

From what I read, they really don't seem to be very well versed in the various versions of the GPL that they will have to deal with or of the multi-dimensional aspects of just how Linux works - technically & in the open-source world which are intrinsically intertwined.

They also don't understand that they will be considered poison by so many of the open-source people, if they 1. try to limit who can use it & 2. because they are trying to produce & sell a distro that is as closed as they can possibly make it (not selling service contracts to business customers as Red Hat, Ubuntu & such do).

Commodore USA, from what the CTO has written, have a very closed-source mind, regarding open-source, combined with this is ignorance of just how much effort will be required to develop/support their own distro; let alone to the point of making it the best that there is available (their statement); of package management & many of the other characteristics of the open-source model that Linux fits into, including the bugs, many of which are not simple or cheap (if you are paying developers) to resolve.

For example: Ubuntu started out with a ten million dollar kitty, it has done wonders over its relatively short life of 6.5 years. The word is that Ubuntu is not paying for the existence of Canonical yet (hard to tell as it isn't a public company); it lost the Netbook & the hand-held battle, but it does OK providing service contracts to businesses. Ubuntu does very little in the way of development (as opposed to Red Hat), it modifies Debian & gets involved in a few projects & fixes a some bugs. If this is what Commodore USA, are thinking they will be doing, & they intend to compete with Ubuntu & Fedora for the desktop, then they had better have VERY deep pockets, even deeper if they are looking at being able to do this in a time frame of 5 years or so.

I think that Commodore USA, are in for a rude shock. The hardware part that they are apparently involved in, is the easy part. The resources required in both time/money to solve all of the problems that stand before them, so that they can become something better than the rest - to stand out from the crowd, is I think actually beyond their understanding at this stage.

The people that created the original Amiga hardware/software system were brilliant engineers. They weren't marketroids. They were engineers that saw the opportunity to make their dream machine. That is how you make something different, that stands out from the crowd. It takes a team of brilliant, creative technicians that happen to be fortunate enough to each be able to contribute in one dimension or more to their collective dream.

I think that Commodore USA, will end up selling their Commodore brand with a slightly modified distro perhaps on some machines or as an option, & people will install Windows on that themselves if they choose. Though in an effort to survive, Commodore USA, will end up being just another Windows licensee trading on the Commodore brand package that they bought in the hope that they can stay in business & make a reasonable living.

Thewhistlingwind
April 10th, 2011, 02:40 AM
I read a long 14 pages thread called "Workbench 5 Question thread", where the CTO was quite involved. It would seem that they wanted to work with AROS, but got a very cold reception over there. They were also warned of legal action by "I think" Hyperion Entertainment" who are the creators & license holders of AmigaOS4, though I could be wrong in regard to who was threatening Commodore USA, as the CTO only hinted.

They have good reasons for basing their "Commodore OS" on Linux, though they are in the game to make as much money as they possibly can & are investigating ways to stop everyone else being able to use their distro.

From what I read, they really don't seem to be very well versed in the various versions of the GPL that they will have to deal with or of the multi-dimensional aspects of just how Linux works - technically & in the open-source world which are intrinsically intertwined.

They also don't understand that they will be considered poison by so many of the open-source people, if they 1. try to limit who can use it & 2. because they are trying to produce & sell a distro that is as closed as they can possibly make it (not selling service contracts to business customers as Red Hat, Ubuntu & such do).

Commodore USA, from what the CTO has written, have a very closed-source mind, regarding open-source, combined with this is ignorance of just how much effort will be required to develop/support their own distro; let alone to the point of making it the best that there is available (their statement); of package management & many of the other characteristics of the open-source model that Linux fits into, including the bugs, many of which are not simple or cheap (if you are paying developers) to resolve.

For example: Ubuntu started out with a ten million dollar kitty, it has done wonders over its relatively short life of 6.5 years. The word is that Ubuntu is not paying for the existence of Canonical yet (hard to tell as it isn't a public company); it lost the Netbook & the hand-held battle, but it does OK providing service contracts to businesses. Ubuntu does very little in the way of development (as opposed to Red Hat), it modifies Debian & gets involved in a few projects & fixes a some bugs. If this is what Commodore USA, are thinking they will be doing, & they intend to compete with Ubuntu & Fedora for the desktop, then they had better have VERY deep pockets, even deeper if they are looking at being able to do this in a time frame of 5 years or so.

I think that Commodore USA, are in for a rude shock. The hardware part that they are apparently involved in, is the easy part. The resources required in both time/money to solve all of the problems that stand before them, so that they can become something better than the rest - to stand out from the crowd, is I think actually beyond their understanding at this stage.

The people that created the original Amiga hardware/software system were brilliant engineers. They weren't marketroids. They were engineers that saw the opportunity to make their dream machine. That is how you make something different, that stands out from the crowd. It takes a team of brilliant, creative technicians that happen to be fortunate enough to each be able to contribute in one dimension or more to their collective dream.

I think that Commodore USA, will end up selling their Commodore brand with a slightly modified distro perhaps on some machines or as an option, & people will install Windows on that themselves if they choose. Though in an effort to survive, Commodore USA, will end up being just another Windows licensee trading on the Commodore brand package that they bought in the hope that they can stay in business & make a reasonable living.

Maybe they'll fail and hyperion can get the rest of their brand back. (The one that was forged and need be reforged.)

youbuntu
April 10th, 2011, 02:51 AM
if you have a look on their website (which has improved dramatically since last time i looked) it was down when i tried twice yesterday?

Check out the amiga section? As someone who basically cut his computing teeth on the amiga line of computers & amigaos, it is easy to see that their site is scamming.

When you go to the os section you see this:

http://www.commodoreusa.net/cusa_os.aspx

they use the big red & white chequered ball (an image that became synonymous with the amiga & amigaos) as the background in the os section. They talk about all of the capacities of the system, which is quite obviously that of a distro, which has wine installed.

Nowhere do they mention linux on that page, they mention amiga as they obviously own the rights to the name, they use the symbols/trade marks, as they own them too.

But they do not own the rights to amigaos, which is the crux of the biscuit when it comes to the amiga.

So some gullible people will pay more money than they have to, to get a linux machine that has names & insignias from the old commodore line.

This is one big rip-off.

+1


Even Larry read about this new C64, and, after laughing so hard he couldn't see for ten mins, he had this to say... "Hey, Schmohawk!..."

http://chud.com/articles/content_images/5/curb-your-enthusiam08.jpg

ukripper
April 11th, 2011, 11:02 AM
Next thing I am waiting for Alan Sugar to buy back Amstrad and start production on resurrected CPC series and install FreeBSD to compete with Commodore 64 :)

madmax75
April 11th, 2011, 10:34 PM
The last thing I need is another computer.

There is no such thing as too many computers ;)

coolbrook
April 11th, 2011, 10:42 PM
This could be big for Coleco ADAM.

amadeus266
April 12th, 2011, 10:27 PM
This is the Commodore Vic pro.
http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_VICPro.aspx

This is the Cybernet ZPC-GX31 made by one of Commodore USA's partners:

http://www.cybernetman.com/en/all-in-one-pc/Keyboard-pc/ZPC-GX31

Some marketing scheme isn't it.

youbuntu
April 12th, 2011, 10:40 PM
Next thing I am waiting for Alan Sugar to buy back Amstrad and start production on resurrected CPC series and install FreeBSD to compete with Commodore 64 :)

Please! NO! NOOOO!!

In other news... I hear that Sir Clive Sinclair is considering a re-vamp of the disastrous C5 trike... WHY? Dude, it failed... let it go... bury that bad idea. :lol:

earthpigg
April 13th, 2011, 02:42 AM
This is the Commodore Vic pro.
http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_VICPro.aspx

This is the Cybernet ZPC-GX31 made by one of Commodore USA's partners:

http://www.cybernetman.com/en/all-in-one-pc/Keyboard-pc/ZPC-GX31

Some marketing scheme isn't it.

very interesting. i brought it (http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/27-commodore-usa/2967-um-are-you-competing-with-your-oem) to their attention. will be curious to see their response.

ukripper
April 13th, 2011, 01:05 PM
Please! NO! NOOOO!!

In other news... I hear that Sir Clive Sinclair is considering a re-vamp of the disastrous C5 trike... WHY? Dude, it failed... let it go... bury that bad idea. :lol:

lol completely bonkers idea!

weasel fierce
April 14th, 2011, 07:33 AM
C64 was about providing a kickass computer that outperformed the competition while beating them on price (spectrum excluded :) )

Amiga was about providing a kickass computer that outperformed the competition while beating them on price.


What they werent about was overpriced generic hardware that would get you laughed out of a Best Buy, and vague promises of ...something... later.

handy
July 2nd, 2011, 12:12 PM
I thought it was time to have a look & see how the CommodoreUSA guys are going.

They did a wonderful thing, they made a couple of "high class" videos to entice their potential customers:

http://www.commodore-amiga.org/forum/10-commodore-os-videos/453-videos?lang=en#460

The vids aren't new, but they are scary.

This was my post in that thread, it also answers a previous post:


Thought I'd drop in & see how you guys are progressing.

The videos were most informative:

You are introducing some old Commodore brothers to the wonders of triple booting on a machine that has been being used for years now by banks & other corporations where desktop space is at a premium, (with various different sets of internals of course).

Triple boot! Ubuntu, Windows & AROS. The only unusual thing here as far as those of us from the Linux world are concerned is AROS & of course the recycled Commodore name & insignia...

Anyone who wants to know what software is available for Ubuntu (Linux) should know that there are tens of thousands of packages available for Linux, there won't be too many that won't run on this thing either.

All of the mentioned emulators have been available & running on Linux, for years.

The only thing different here when it comes right down to it, is the Commodore name & insignia on publicly available computers that consumers don't usually see in the IT section of the stores that they visit.

At least with this triple boot scenario, the game players will have the potential for good enough 3D video for games that the Linux 3D driver stack can't support at this stage.


[edit:] & when after reading this & having a look at there sites if you did, don't forget this:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/24/cybernets-all-in-one-keyboard-computers-get-an-upgrade/

Did you notice the date?

Allavona
July 2nd, 2011, 07:13 PM
I have a couple of Commodore 128s gathering dust in the spare room. Do these count?

Yes! I still have mine! GO 64!

load "lode runner",8,1 !!!!

I still to this day will turn it on and play some games that I think rock. Summer Games I and II anyone?

weasel fierce
July 2nd, 2011, 07:17 PM
Im dubious that running windows 7 on that hardware is going to do much good for 3D games, unless we're talking Quake 2

handy
July 3rd, 2011, 05:07 AM
I just checked out their forum again & found my posts deleted.

The mods don't like what I have to say over there & have told me I'm about to be banned if I don't stop expressing what I think on their forum.

Business is business...

Dustin2128
July 3rd, 2011, 05:48 AM
Im dubious that running windows 7 on that hardware is going to do much good for 3D games, unless we're talking Quake 2
If we're going to be talking quake 2, windows 7 wouldn't do any good either.

NMFTM
July 3rd, 2011, 04:10 PM
This is a much better deal: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Dell+-+All-In-One+Computer+/+AMD+Athlon%26%23153%3B+II+X4+Processor+/+23%22+Display+/+4GB+Memory+/+1TB+Hard+Drive+-+Mercury+Silver/1677227.p?id=1218278293078&skuId=1677227

critanime
July 5th, 2011, 04:32 AM
I am new to Linux and as such don't know much about the complexities of the open source world. So I was curious as to how far CUSA were allowed to tinker with a linux distro.

Dustin2128
July 5th, 2011, 05:20 AM
I am new to Linux and as such don't know much about the complexities of the open source world. So I was curious as to how far CUSA were allowed to tinker with a linux distro.
Basically you're free to do whatever you want with a linux distro (or any GPL software), without the need to ask for permission, as long as you keep the code free. For BSD/MIT style permissive licenses, you don't even have to do that much. For the record, the linux kernel, and ecosystems of most if not all distributions (including ubuntu) are composed of at least 98% free software, the rest being mostly drivers. rms explains it better than me:http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html

critanime
July 5th, 2011, 07:29 AM
Thanks for clearing that up. I had the notion in my head that there were, for lack of better phrasing, copyright like issues surrounding what was done with ubuntu and other distro's.

==edit==
actually I should clarify that a bit more. Because copyright is likely the wrong phrase to use. I had the notion that even though it's open source there would still be a point where someone would go "hold on you can't just alter massive amounts of the program I worked hard on and claim it as your own".

handy
July 5th, 2011, 08:38 AM
Thanks for clearing that up. I had the notion in my head that there were, for lack of better phrasing, copyright like issues surrounding what was done with ubuntu and other distro's.

If there were something like that, then Ubuntu wouldn't exist, as it is based on Debian, which is an old distro, but even so if there were copyright instead of copyleft there really wouldn't be all the distros that do & have existed in the history of Linux.

Actually it is certainly reasonable to assume that without the Free Software Foundation & the GNU tools that were used to create the Linux kernel, that Linux wouldn't even exist. Most everything else that makes up Linux was created by those tools also.

Would we still be waiting on the Hurd under those circumstances, or would there have been motivation to get in & finish it & polish it up?

[edit:] I cleaned the above up, as it was somewhat incorrect before. If it is wrong now, it shouldn't be as wrong as it was before. :)

Dustin2128
July 5th, 2011, 09:00 AM
actually I should clarify that a bit more. Because copyright is likely the wrong phrase to use. I had the notion that even though it's open source there would still be a point where someone would go "hold on you can't just alter massive amounts of the program I worked hard on and claim it as your own".
There's nothing wrong with doing that. Although, I don't know if it's a legal requirement, politeness generally dictates that you cite the person who's code you used.

critanime
July 5th, 2011, 11:30 AM
I think I dropped myself in it a little with the wording I used. Sorry long night shifts tend to blur things a little lol.

I didn't mean things in a literal copyright sense, thats the closest way I could explain what I wanted to ask at the time of writing. I understand that without open source we wouldn't have things like Ubuntu or even Linux. I just meant how much open source code can you use before having to cite or credit the original author/s.

This is something that I have had an interest in for a while but never got round to properly researching. As I mentioned at the start of the post, a 14 hour night shift might not have helped me to articulate my question as effectively as I had hoped.

Sorry :(

zer010
July 5th, 2011, 01:11 PM
Eh, modded C64 case for $250... Not too bad if someone really wants the retro look. It's probably cheaper than the $900 to get all the internals.

forrestcupp
July 5th, 2011, 04:06 PM
I didn't mean things in a literal copyright sense, thats the closest way I could explain what I wanted to ask at the time of writing. I understand that without open source we wouldn't have things like Ubuntu or even Linux. I just meant how much open source code can you use before having to cite or credit the original author/s.
You can do whatever you want with all of the code. The main rules are that you can't change the license, and if you distribute the program with your changed code, you have to make your source code available.

On the practical side of it, if you want to change the code of a big project that is headed by someone, they have the right to not accept your code into the official project. But then you have the right to fork it and distribute your changed version. But if it's a huge project, and you fork it because of a few small changes, you'd better be ready to continue to support such a large undertaking.

The thing you have to understand is that people who release their code under a free license know that people can do that kind of stuff. If you don't want people messing with your code, you need to release your app under a more proprietary license.

critanime
July 5th, 2011, 06:19 PM
Thanks again guys for helping to clear this up for me. I feel like I have learned a fair bit :D