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youbuntu
April 8th, 2011, 03:42 PM
Why is there no universal standard for IDE hdd jumpers? Every time you get a different brand (and even MODEL, sometimes) of drive, you have to figure out their cryptic master/slave/master with slave/single/CS diagram, or worse, Google it for ages.

WHY?!

Stupid.

Surely this should have been standardised? :? :?

ikt
April 8th, 2011, 04:13 PM
Why is there no universal standard for IDE hdd jumpers? Every time you get a different brand (and even MODEL, sometimes) of drive, you have to figure out their cryptic master/slave/master with slave/single/CS diagram, or worse, Google it for ages.

WHY?!

Stupid.

Surely this should have been standardised? :? :?

o_O?

Is it suddenly 2004 again?

There's this cool new thing coming out called SATA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA

check it out, it doesn't need any of that stuff.

sydbat
April 8th, 2011, 04:13 PM
Why is there no universal standard for IDE hdd jumpers? Every time you get a different brand (and even MODEL, sometimes) of drive, you have to figure out their cryptic master/slave/master with slave/single/CS diagram, or worse, Google it for ages.

WHY?!

Stupid.

Surely this should have been standardised? :? :?I didn't know they even made IDE drives anymore. Seriously. I haven't seen them in any store for at least 5 years. Everything is sata these days.

Grenage
April 8th, 2011, 04:14 PM
Why is there no universal standard for IDE hdd jumpers? Every time you get a different brand (and even MODEL, sometimes) of drive, you have to figure out their cryptic master/slave/master with slave/single/CS diagram, or worse, Google it for ages.

WHY?!

Stupid.

Surely this should have been standardised? :? :?

A standard might be been nice, but whining about that now would be like complaining medieval sickle design.

SoFl W
April 8th, 2011, 04:16 PM
I didn't know they even made IDE drives anymore. Seriously. I haven't seen them in any store for at least 5 years. Everything is sata these days.

Yes they are still made, older motherboards still use them. They make SCSI drives also, perhaps this person has an old still useful machine that needs a new hard drive.

youbuntu
April 8th, 2011, 04:16 PM
A standard might be been nice, but whining about that now would be like complaining medieval sickle design.

:lolflag::lolflag::lolflag::lolflag::lolflag:

Fwiw, I am not so stupid as to not realise about, or use SATA. I'm not entirely stupid :roll:

sydbat
April 8th, 2011, 04:17 PM
Yes they are still made, older motherboards still use them. They make SCSI drives also.WOW! Where? And where, in the first world, would be able to buy them?

Grenage
April 8th, 2011, 04:19 PM
:lolflag::lolflag::lolflag::lolflag::lolflag:

Fwiw, I am not so stupid as to not realise about, or use SATA. I'm not entirely stupid :roll:

I know, but it's a valid point. We still use IDE drives in old CCTV systems, but thankfully most of the new units use SATA. Most local stores here have some IDE drives, not all hard drives are destined for home PCs

youbuntu
April 8th, 2011, 04:24 PM
WOW! Where? And where, in the first world, would be able to buy them?

Are you serious? really? I thought people on here were generally tech savvy... try "Google"... or Amazon... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Generic-Hard-Disk-Drive-250GB/dp/B000OUI8PU

sydbat
April 8th, 2011, 04:29 PM
Are you serious? really? I thought people on here were generally tech savvy... try "Google"...I am serious. I have not seen any IDE/ PATA drives here, in any store that carries computer hardware, for at least 5 years. I honestly thought that no one made them anymore. Can you tell me what brand you just bought new?

youbuntu
April 8th, 2011, 04:29 PM
I am serious. I have not seen any IDE/ PATA drives here, in any store that carries computer hardware, for at least 5 years. I honestly thought that no one made them anymore. Can you tell me what brand you just bought new?

I didn't buy one.

sydbat
April 8th, 2011, 04:33 PM
glossy - I did not see your edited post with the link to Amazon before I posted.

However, that HDD is either old stock, or more likely a Chinese knockoff. That it is "generic" tells me that a major HDD manufacturer likely did not make it. I would be careful with any data stored on that drive.

youbuntu
April 8th, 2011, 04:39 PM
glossy - I did not see your edited post with the link to Amazon before I posted.

However, that HDD is either old stock, or more likely a Chinese knockoff. That it is "generic" tells me that a major HDD manufacturer likely did not make it. I would be careful with any data stored on that drive.

:lol: You cannot be serious... I have ordered LOTS of "generic" hard drives - generic means just that - generic, as opposed to "tap dancing, gingerbread hdd"

I think your paranoia switch is stuck...

uRock
April 8th, 2011, 04:43 PM
All of the ones I have owned have had a decal showing how to set the jumpers.

youbuntu
April 8th, 2011, 04:47 PM
All of the ones I have owned have had a decal showing how to set the jumpers.

Yes, but all brands differ, is my point.

ST3ALTHPSYCH0
April 8th, 2011, 04:52 PM
All cars have the oil dipstick and battery in a different location too.... you just gotta know what to look for.
Also, Newegg still sells WDC, Seagate, and other name brand IDE HDDs new. They just don't have as wide a selection. (They even have 2.5&3.5 varieties)

Elfy
April 8th, 2011, 05:05 PM
glossy - I did not see your edited post with the link to Amazon before I posted.

However, that HDD is either old stock, or more likely a Chinese knockoff. That it is "generic" tells me that a major HDD manufacturer likely did not make it. I would be careful with any data stored on that drive.

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/harddrives-internal/ide/

I've needed to buy them fairly recently - I wish I didn't but oldish hardware with no sata ports forced my hand. Could have got a converter but that just added to the cost.

Elfy
April 8th, 2011, 05:06 PM
Yes, but all brands differ, is my point.

We all see the point - but it's a fairly pointless point now as no-one is going to bother with standardising something that's old tech ;)

youbuntu
April 8th, 2011, 05:08 PM
We all see the point - but it's a fairly pointless point now as no-one is going to bother with standardising something that's old tech ;)

Yes, obviously I get that, I was merely stating my surprise that it was never a standard. Do you think I am here to get them to standardise it, in retrospect? Give me some credit :)

doas777
April 8th, 2011, 05:12 PM
in the long run, the IDE standard did not specify HDD case issues like pin layout. thats an issue between the chasis and the controler board. the standards specify how the controler will function logically, but don't say much about how the circuit is layed out.

there is a danger to both over and under standardization. your issue I think indicates under-standardization, but over-standardization increases the cost of the standards making process, reduces vendor/manufacturer buyin (cause your telling them what to do, and at the same time taking away anything that might make their products stand out), and ultimately reduces the likelihood that your standard will be accepted by any broad segment of the industry.

besides, it wasn't until the late 90's/early ots that people started taking standards organizations seriously. nowadays everything is compliance driven, but it didn;t used to be that way.

mips
April 8th, 2011, 05:19 PM
However, that HDD is either old stock, or more likely a Chinese knockoff. That it is "generic" tells me that a major HDD manufacturer likely did not make it. I would be careful with any data stored on that drive.

HDD manufacturing is a highly sophisticated business. I doubt you get "knockoff" hard drives.

There are currently only five HDD manufacturers on this planet, Hitachi, Samsung, Seagate, Toshiba & Western Digital.

I've never come across a fake HDD in my life.

youbuntu
April 8th, 2011, 05:20 PM
HDD manufacturing is a highly sophisticated business. I doubt you get "knockoff" hard drives.

There are currently only five HDD manufacturers on this planet, Hitachi, Samsung, Seagate, Toshiba & Western Digital.

I've never come across a fake HDD in my life.


Precisely. Unless they were spray painted plaster of Paris HDDs...
:lolflag:

uRock
April 8th, 2011, 05:42 PM
When I was in a country in SE Asia, one could easily buy fake brand electronics. I would not doubt that they make knockoff HDDs by now.

On topic, I see no reason for a standard requiring jumpers to be the same on all hardwares. If there was no standard for the pata cabling, then I could see where there would be a problem, but this is not the case.

ikt
April 8th, 2011, 06:32 PM
Precisely. Unless they were spray painted plaster of Paris HDDs...
:lolflag:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5903954/what_to_know_when_buying_a_generic.html

Oh well.

unknownPoster
April 8th, 2011, 07:06 PM
Are you serious? really? I thought people on here were generally tech savvy... try "Google"... or Amazon... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Generic-Hard-Disk-Drive-250GB/dp/B000OUI8PU

Don't you think that's a bit hypocritical when Google would have answered your original question?

disabledaccount
April 8th, 2011, 07:13 PM
glossywhite: I remember Your post:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=10561057&postcount=1

I have a few bits and bobs laying around doing nothing at home, and a MASSIVE mine of mental information and valuable advice regarding electronics, technology, computers...
So please... what is this topic about?
Jumper settings on ATA drives are the simplest part of system configuration.
SATA drives have jumpers too (f.e. limitting to SATA1, enabling PM, SSC, etc.)

samalex
April 8th, 2011, 07:13 PM
Honestly with Linux running on older systems like a champ buying older/used systems that still run IDE/PATA drives is an awesome way to get a NICE Linux System going at very little cost. For used drives though I'd definitely recommend using a RAID or at least having a backup script copy your data to a secondary drive since you never know why a used drive was discarded.

So knowing such things as setting motherboard dip switches and hard drive jumpers can become very relevant to a Linux user :)

SeijiSensei
April 8th, 2011, 07:17 PM
Could have got a converter but that just added to the cost.

Why even buy a converter when you can decent Linux-compatible PCI SATA controllers (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007607&IsNodeId=1&srchInDesc=pci%20sata&page=1&bop=And&ActiveSearchResult=True&Order=PRICE&PageSize=20) for under $20?

Elfy
April 8th, 2011, 07:28 PM
Not looked into that here - but I suspect the cost would be higher - most of our electronics are higher in cost than they are in the states. (Maybe not - found similar for about 15)

That said - getting one of those would have still added to the cost :)

youbuntu
April 8th, 2011, 07:59 PM
glossywhite: I remember Your post:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=10561057&postcount=1

So please... what is this topic about?
Jumper settings on ATA drives are the simplest part of system configuration.
SATA drives have jumpers too (f.e. limitting to SATA1, enabling PM, SSC, etc.)

Your point is obscured or lost.

Iowan
April 8th, 2011, 09:03 PM
Closed by request.