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benjamimgois
April 8th, 2011, 02:12 AM
I saw this post on phoronix and i couldn't believe my eyes !

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTMwMg

Is it true ?

darundal
April 8th, 2011, 02:35 AM
I sure hope so. Since installing Natty, I have been pleasantly surprised with Unity, but it is in no way ready to be the default. Too many weird bugs and unironed out usability issues. I definitely hope it is included in the final release though. Just not as the default.

msrinath80
April 8th, 2011, 02:36 AM
I saw this post on phoronix and i couldn't believe my eyes !

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTMwMg

Is it true ?

Finally, someone with good sense. Both Unity and Gnome Shell can wait a couple more releases before they are actually deployed.

christoph411
April 8th, 2011, 02:37 AM
Is it true ?

It better not be!!! :evil:

Cenotaph
April 8th, 2011, 02:50 AM
This would be a good decision, imo. Both Unity and Gnome Shell are clearly lacking some fundamental options and stability too. They both need to mature before being used by a proper distro. It's like what happened with KDE4.

VanR
April 8th, 2011, 03:12 AM
I've been running the Classic desktop. Can't stand Unity myself. So I hope it's true.

Rasa1111
April 8th, 2011, 04:18 AM
Hope so.

msrinath80, most agreed.

cariboo
April 8th, 2011, 04:28 AM
I really don't see anything there about changing the desktop, it was just something brought up from the peanut gallery.

rajeev1204
April 8th, 2011, 04:31 AM
Phoronix is mostly non sense.

Merk42
April 8th, 2011, 04:41 AM
Phoronix is mostly non sense.
Ubuntu will default to Classic GNOME when Steam comes out for Linux

gordi
April 8th, 2011, 06:33 AM
Would be best decision ever.

VinDSL
April 8th, 2011, 07:10 AM
I really don't see anything there about changing the desktop, it was just something brought up from the peanut gallery.
Bwahahahaha!

Very subtle... :D

Mr. Picklesworth
April 8th, 2011, 07:37 AM
Oh, Phoronix, how I love those guys…

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2011-April/002894.html :)

Docaltmed
April 8th, 2011, 11:34 AM
I think it would be a smart move. Over the past 3 days, I've installed the beta on 3 different platforms. On all three, I experienced unrecoverable compiz crashes.

I've got no problems with the concept; Unity looks a lot like what I've got now with an AWN menu on the side, except it has global menus (good) and lacks customization (bad).

I can't imagine installing something so unstable on the computers at work, and I don't see any way that Unity is going to be ready for prime time in 2 weeks. We'll be sticking with 10.10 for a while, while I investigate Gnome 3.

It kind of reminds me of the U1 debacle. Years after its release, U1 is still plagued with bandwidth/CPU problems, and release after release, it doesn't get fixed.

Both U1 and Unity are Canonical projects. Makes me wonder if they have some development process issues over there.

Harry33
April 8th, 2011, 12:06 PM
I think it would be a smart move. Over the past 3 days, I've installed the beta on 3 different platforms. On all three, I experienced unrecoverable compiz crashes.
I've got no problems with the concept; Unity looks a lot like what I've got now with an AWN menu on the side, except it has global menus (good) and lacks customization (bad).
I can't imagine installing something so unstable on the computers at work, and I don't see any way that Unity is going to be ready for prime time in 2 weeks. We'll be sticking with 10.10 for a while, while I investigate Gnome 3.
It kind of reminds me of the U1 debacle. Years after its release, U1 is still plagued with bandwidth/CPU problems, and release after release, it doesn't get fixed.
Both U1 and Unity are Canonical projects. Makes me wonder if they have some development process issues over there.

You could always stick to 11.04 with Ubuntu Classic session and even purge Unity with all its dependencies + Compiz. This is what I have done.

Harry33
April 8th, 2011, 12:10 PM
Oh, Phoronix, how I love those guys…
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2011-April/002894.html :)

From the link above:

Given the current course of development,
it appears that we are going to achieve this goal, and Unity will stay
the default for 11.04.

Representing the desktop team, Jason Warner believes that Unity will
deliver the superior experience for most users in 11.04.

This does not necessarily reflect the ongoing situation here on the forum given the number of complaints and bug notifications concerning Unity itself but also Compiz.

gnomeuser
April 8th, 2011, 12:34 PM
While Unity is no where near finished I found it very pleasant in use. That being said, after trying GNOME3, what happens with Unity has limited interest to me aside the problem of its dependencies making packaging GNOME3 correctly hard.

KegHead
April 8th, 2011, 01:34 PM
Hi!

Just found this:

Minutes from the Technical Board meeting, 2011-04-07

Kees Cook kees at ubuntu.com
Thu Apr 7 19:15:10 UTC 2011
Previous message: Announcing the Next Ubuntu Bug Day! April 08th 2011
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
== Attendees ==
* Chair: Kees Cook
* Present: Scott James Remnant, Matt Zimmerman
* Apologies: Martin Pitt, Colin Watson, Mark Shuttleworth
* Guests: Doug Mandell, Rick Spencer, Dave Morley, Jorge Castro, James Westby, Chris Coulson, Scott Kitterman

== Notes ==
* action review
* everything assigned last meeting was completed

* Classic Gnome Desktop by default (dmandell)
* Action: rickspencer3 will bring up the state of unity on the -desktop list for public review and discussion

* Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed (standing item)
* nothing needed discussion during the IRC meeting

* Check up on community bugs (standing item)
* 1 bug is closed (patches URL)
* Action: mdz to attach missing patches for debian bugs 151820 308832 35325 and 326677
* 2 bugs remain standing for LP rights

* Select a chair for the next meeting
* mdz selected

--
Kees Cook
Ubuntu Security Team

Trapper
April 8th, 2011, 02:29 PM
Sorry, I do not care what anyone says ... Unity IS NOT a reasonable design for a desktop. Ubuntu is acting as if the familiar desktop we now use is going to automagically disappear from usage. Far from it. The only way it'll disappear is by force.

Ubuntu needs to get Unity out of their desktop release and create a Unity release of it's own. Desktop does not equate to portable touchscreen appliances, etc. Ubuntu and everyone else needs to get that into their head. You're not going to replace the desktop, most especially in the work environment.

KegHead
April 8th, 2011, 02:32 PM
Hi!

Unity will fit the needs for most people.

I happen to love 11.04 w/classic.

It fits all of my needs and is very easy to work with.

If Gnome is lost I'll most likely move to Xubuntu.

I'll tested X 11.04b and it's great!

KegHead

VinDSL
April 8th, 2011, 11:26 PM
Sorry, I do not care what anyone says ...
LoL!

End of discussion, I guess.

OK, mods, you can shut the forums down... :D

r-senior
April 8th, 2011, 11:39 PM
Ubuntu is acting as if the familiar desktop we now use is going to automagically disappear from usage. Far from it. The only way it'll disappear is by force.
Isn't it the other way around? Given that the Gnome project has set its sights on Gnome Shell as an integral part of Gnome 3, isn't the only way that the "familiar desktop", i.e. panels, will remain is by force? By someone taking up the responsibility for maintaining them?

I can't see that anyone who is disillusioned with Unity in terms of design (rather than stability) is going to embrace Gnome Shell. It's a lot closer to Unity than Gnome 2.

bruce89
April 8th, 2011, 11:53 PM
No matter what you think about Unity (I haven't used it, so won't comment), I suspect not having it as default would be too embarassing, especially with GNOME 3.0 out now.

gsmanners
April 9th, 2011, 12:10 AM
Looks like the arguments can be summed up as follows...

Re: Keep Classic for next release:

Pros:

- stability bugs
- overall behavior is confusing for beginners
- needs more documentation and tutorials
- deficient hardware support
- deficient systray support
- difficulties with upstream re: libappindicator
- inconsistent icon click behavior
- difficult to configure
- difficult to view app categories
- startup/logging in takes longer

Cons:

- more attention was beneficial to Empathy
- less attention may stunt its growth
- systray is due to be phased out
- mouse and keyboard idioms are useful
- more of the screen is used

Anyone think of anything else?

sgage
April 9th, 2011, 12:16 AM
Ubuntu needs to get Unity out of their desktop release and create a Unity release of it's own. Desktop does not equate to portable touchscreen appliances, etc. Ubuntu and everyone else needs to get that into their head. You're not going to replace the desktop, most especially in the work environment.

That's it, in a nutshell.

23dornot23d
April 9th, 2011, 12:25 AM
+1 on the above as a option too ..... we posted at similar times ..... but thats probably summed it up
UNITY seems aimed towards larger ICONS and TOUCH SCREEN ...... which is of no use really for the
desktop users ....... but ..... to solve the full problem with one release .....

My thoughts on this are .....

New Users like choices .....

1 .... UNITY is good for new people
2 .... CLASSIC is what a lot of older people know inside out
3 .... GNOME3 / GNOME SHELL is also a good but new interface with the desktop


Question that keeps going through my mind is this .......

When I set my System up I set two users up as

I like Gnome Shell for one .....
and
I like Gnome Classic as the other ......


Its dead easy to switch between the two ......


What if for this release only ..... you set the system up to give 3 choices

USER U ....... UNITY
USER C ....... CLASSIC
USER G ....... GNOME SHELL

somehow get feedback from the users to which is the one that they prefer after
6 months ........ of use ....... people should be able to make a decision.

Its a quick and simple case of switching user to get what you want and I am sure there is something that will suit everyone ......
rather than getting into a division of camps.

I have almost switched to KDE now which is bizarre ...... as the reason I came to gnome from KDE in the first place - was
because they were altering my working environment ...... in such a way that it became awkward for me to use efficiently ......

benerivo
April 9th, 2011, 12:35 AM
that's it, in a nutshell.

+2

You can't create a unifying interface that will be 'the best' on each hardware. People generally prefer the best. Apple don't use OSX on iphones or iOS4 on desktops. Hardware leads, software follows.

KegHead
April 9th, 2011, 01:18 AM
+3

Aptorian
April 9th, 2011, 01:22 AM
Basically, people can't handle change, even clever computer nerds.

If you rely on stability and are using this for something Very Important, chances are you're better off sticking with an older release anyway. If it's really such a big deal, you have the option to use Classic. Seriously, if you're that fussy about keeping the old ways, go use a slower distro like Debian.

r-senior
April 9th, 2011, 01:26 AM
+2

You can't create a unifying interface that will be 'the best' on each hardware. People generally prefer the best. Apple don't use OSX on iphones or iOS4 on desktops. Hardware leads, software follows.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/lion/

sgage
April 9th, 2011, 01:27 AM
Basically, people can't handle change, even clever computer nerds.

If you rely on stability and are using this for something Very Important, chances are you're better off sticking with an older release anyway. If it's really such a big deal, you have the option to use Classic. Seriously, if you're that fussy about keeping the old ways, go use a slower distro like Debian.

I rest my case.

Rely on stability? Yes! Very Important? Yes! Big Deal? You bet! Just what the hell do you do with your computer - unimportant fluffy nonsnense?

WTF? Fussy about keeping the old ways? Your post just emphasizes why I (and many others) have just about had it with the Ubuntu "community".

Rasa1111
April 9th, 2011, 01:55 AM
That's it, in a nutshell.

+4



I rest my case.

+1
<3


@ 23dornot23d~ I am liking your posts in regards to all this..
Couldn't agree more..
Makes more sense than anything Im seeing come from canonical/ubuntu/shuttleworth.

I just wish they were actually noticed/realized/listened to by those who pull the strings.

Thanks for your contributions.
<3

ranch hand
April 9th, 2011, 01:57 AM
I think it would be a smart move. Over the past 3 days, I've installed the beta on 3 different platforms. On all three, I experienced unrecoverable compiz crashes.

I've got no problems with the concept; Unity looks a lot like what I've got now with an AWN menu on the side, except it has global menus (good) and lacks customization (bad).

I can't imagine installing something so unstable on the computers at work, and I don't see any way that Unity is going to be ready for prime time in 2 weeks. We'll be sticking with 10.10 for a while, while I investigate Gnome 3.

It kind of reminds me of the U1 debacle. Years after its release, U1 is still plagued with bandwidth/CPU problems, and release after release, it doesn't get fixed.

Both U1 and Unity are Canonical projects. Makes me wonder if they have some development process issues over there.
Sure does. Good call.

ranch hand
April 9th, 2011, 01:57 AM
i rest my case.

Rely on stability? Yes! Very important? Yes! Big deal? You bet! Just what the hell do you do with your computer - unimportant fluffy nonsnense?

Wtf? Fussy about keeping the old ways? Your post just emphasizes why i (and many others) have just about had it with the ubuntu "community".
+493

cgroza
April 9th, 2011, 02:00 AM
Makes no difference anyway. You still could select GNOME Classic the same way you can select Unity now, provided Phoronix is right.

cariboo
April 9th, 2011, 02:17 AM
From the link above:

This does not necessarily reflect the ongoing situation here on the forum given the number of complaints and bug notifications concerning Unity itself but also Compiz.

Unfortunately, as much as we would like it to, the forum doesn't represent the general usership of Ubuntu. With only an active membership of a little over 50,000 compared to an estimated 12,000,000 users, we are just a drop in the bucket. A vital one, but none the less, still just a drop. :)

sgage
April 9th, 2011, 02:25 AM
Unfortunately, as much as we would like it to, the forum doesn't represent the general usership of Ubuntu. With only an active membership of a little over 50,000 compared to an estimated 12,000,000 users, we are just a drop in the bucket. A vital one, but none the less, still just a drop. :)

Yes, that's what you always say. But if we're remotely a representative sample of the Ubuntu users, there are big problems. And if we're not a representative sample, let's say members here are the people who really work through stuff and care about it, then there are even bigger problems.

So, are we vital, or just a drop? You are not making sense.

cariboo
April 9th, 2011, 02:40 AM
@sgage, I guess we are going we are going to have to agree to disagree, If I offended you in any way, I didn't mean to, sorry.

sgage
April 9th, 2011, 02:41 AM
@sgage, I guess we are going we are going to have to agree to disagree

I guess so.

Rasa1111
April 9th, 2011, 02:56 AM
Yes, that's what you always say. But if we're remotely a representative sample of the Ubuntu users, there are big problems. And if we're not a representative sample, let's say members here are the people who really work through stuff and care about it, then there are even bigger problems.

So, are we vital, or just a drop? You are not making sense.

Indeed.
Macro
Micro

This "small drop" is representative of the entire community.
It has to be.
it's like a fractal.
(sorry if that doesn't make sense to anyone else, it does to me) lol

Either way one looks at it..

as sgage said, (and said well)
there are big problems...

recluce
April 9th, 2011, 02:57 AM
I rest my case.

Rely on stability? Yes! Very Important? Yes! Big Deal? You bet! Just what the hell do you do with your computer - unimportant fluffy nonsnense?

WTF? Fussy about keeping the old ways? Your post just emphasizes why I (and many others) have just about had it with the Ubuntu "community".

+1

Adopting something "new" for no other or better reason than it is "new" is foolishness.

If Aptorian really thinks this is the right way, he should just as well embrace having the DVORAK keyboard layout exclusively in Ubuntu. It would be NEW (only reason required!), not following the "old ways" and everybody who doesn't like it could just go to hell (or Debian).

msrinath80
April 9th, 2011, 03:26 AM
that's it, in a nutshell.

+10000

Rasa1111
April 9th, 2011, 09:45 PM
UBUNTU 11.04 SWITCHING BACK TO CLASSIC GNOME BY DEFAULT INSTEAD OF UNITY?

http://www.webupd8.org/2011/04/ubuntu-1104-switching-back-to-classic.html

A message on the Ubuntu devel mailing list mentions that the current state of Unity will be brought up for discussion and if needed, the Classic GNOME Desktop may be default after all in Ubuntu 11.04:

* Classic Gnome Desktop by default (dmandell)
* Action: rickspencer3 will bring up the state of unity on the -desktop list for public review and discussion

The reason for this are some feature regressions like usability issues: settings are hard to find, the launcher icons behavior but most importantly, the buggy state in which Unity / Compiz is at this stage.

Merk42
April 10th, 2011, 03:04 AM
UBUNTU 11.04 SWITCHING BACK TO CLASSIC GNOME BY DEFAULT INSTEAD OF UNITY?

http://www.webupd8.org/2011/04/ubuntu-1104-switching-back-to-classic.html
That merely says they'll discuss the possibility of it

Trapper
April 10th, 2011, 03:15 AM
LoL!

End of discussion, I guess.

OK, mods, you can shut the forums down... :D

Yeah, sorry. I just get out of hand when something like this comes along. I'm not real good at change and especially when I find it completely unnecessary. Even more so when the change inhibits rather than improves. Mostly though, Unity is being shoved down our throats. The entire Ubuntu community is basically being used as forced testers. This is something entirely new. Good sense says you don't make it the default choice. I can understand why it's done though. However, in the end it comes to this ... you don't send a known lemon out on the road.

It isn't like I haven't been giving Unity a fair shake. It's just cumbersome, difficult to navigate, slows production and is obviously being built for the entertainment crowd that's mostly comprised of computer illiterates. It's quite middle school. It's going to have to improve dramatically to outperform the traditional desktop.

Sorry, I just don't intend on becoming a robot. I'd use Windows if I wanted that.

ranch hand
April 10th, 2011, 04:50 AM
@Trapper
Well put.

KegHead
April 10th, 2011, 01:13 PM
#41

+1

KegHead

Trapper
April 10th, 2011, 02:23 PM
+1

Adopting something "new" for no other or better reason than it is "new" is foolishness.

If Aptorian really thinks this is the right way, he should just as well embrace having the DVORAK keyboard layout exclusively in Ubuntu. It would be NEW (only reason required!), not following the "old ways" and everybody who doesn't like it could just go to hell (or Debian).

Agreed. Unity, as it is, has no reasonable reason to exist other than that it's new and different. It's just more eye candy in a world of technology that's sacrificing genuine functionality for the sake of looks . That's it. Unfortunately looks are what's important to people anymore. Doesn't matter how well something works ... just so it's looks compares to the competition's and it visually appeals to the latest artistic whims of the general public.

This rates right up there with people's thinking that the speed an OS or app opens/closes determines how good it is and if they'll use it or not.

Unity needs to be a spin of its own so the teeny boppers and fad fanatics can have their toys and the rest of us will still get releases that aren't diluted by the affects of Unity being an intertwined part of the development.

Merk42
April 10th, 2011, 02:50 PM
+1

Adopting something "new" for no other or better reason than it is "new" is foolishness.

If Aptorian really thinks this is the right way, he should just as well embrace having the DVORAK keyboard layout exclusively in Ubuntu. It would be NEW (only reason required!), not following the "old ways" and everybody who doesn't like it could just go to hell (or Debian).

An exclusive DVORAK layout would require new hardware and you know it. Unity (when coupled with Unity 2D) doesn't.
If we want to pull such straw men, then I guess people like you that just call Unity shiny would love an exclusively Terminal version of Ubuntu since any advancement in computer interaction is clearly bad.

jrothwell97
April 10th, 2011, 03:40 PM
Ubuntu 11.04 May Default To Classic GNOME Desktop ?

No.

If it did, it'd be one hell of a FFe.

kansasnoob
April 10th, 2011, 03:46 PM
No.

If it did, it'd be one hell of a FFe.

Funny Front-end :lolflag:

fjgaude
April 10th, 2011, 03:48 PM
Switching workspaces requires two mouse clicks in Unity. This is not improving the work flow for us that use mouse and touch pads.

r-senior
April 10th, 2011, 03:54 PM
Switching workspaces requires two mouse clicks in Unity. This is not improving the work flow for us that use mouse and touch pads.
Is this because you want to move to a blank workspace and open a new application? I'm just thinking that the quickest way to switch to an active application on another workspace is to click its icon in the launcher.

mikewhatever
April 10th, 2011, 03:58 PM
Yeah, sorry. I just get out of hand when something like this comes along. I'm not real good at change and especially when I find it completely unnecessary. Even more so when the change inhibits rather than improves. Mostly though, Unity is being shoved down our throats. The entire Ubuntu community is basically being used as forced testers. This is something entirely new. Good sense says you don't make it the default choice. I can understand why it's done though. However, in the end it comes to this ... you don't send a known lemon out on the road.

Common now, give me a break. No one forces you to use Unity, let alone the entire Ubuntu community.


It isn't like I haven't been giving Unity a fair shake. It's just cumbersome, difficult to navigate, slows production and is obviously being built for the entertainment crowd that's mostly comprised of computer illiterates. It's quite middle school. It's going to have to improve dramatically to outperform the traditional desktop.

Sorry, I just don't intend on becoming a robot. I'd use Windows if I wanted that.

So what do you suggest the default interface should be? Gnome2, the unsupported environment? Gnome3?

fjgaude
April 10th, 2011, 04:14 PM
Is this because you want to move to a blank workspace and open a new application? I'm just thinking that the quickest way to switch to an active application on another workspace is to click its icon in the launcher.

Good idea... but you have to have the open app as one of the icons in the left panel. In complex layouts there are many open apps some of which are not in the panel. I'm sure as time goes on things will have more and more options to improve workflow.

I would think the Workplace Switcher would show apps in each place and be sensitive to a click, four places, four unique clicks taking you to the place clicked.

Thanks for the suggestion!

r-senior
April 10th, 2011, 08:18 PM
In complex layouts there are many open apps some of which are not in the panel.
All active apps should be in the launcher, regardless of whether they are pinned there as shortcuts. If you have lots of open apps you might need to scroll (reducing the icon size helps), but if an unpinned app doesn't dynamically appear in the launcher when it's run, that's a bug.

tlcstat
April 10th, 2011, 08:53 PM
Greetings,
This is just an opinion from a smurfy old retired Windows consultant/tech using Ubuntu 100% for one year and not so hung up on Gnome although I agree that it is nice. Unity +Natty for me is just about the most functional, smoothest (with a few glitches), prettiest, fastest, desktop I have ever used. At this point I don't even imagine myself using anything different. Once I learned the many short cuts navigation couldn't be easier. I do agree though that it ought to work "right" before it is released as the primary desktop. I didn't think I needed anything else when I was using Maverick and Gnome2, but they can't compare with Natty and Unity. Or maybe I just don't know Ubuntu yet!
tlcstat

Primary SDA 50Gig NTFS (fully install WindowsXp to boot before preceeding.
Primary SDA2 500Meg ext2 /boot partition for grub files. Grub in SDA mbr.
Primary SDA3 3Gig Linux Swap
Extended SDA4 433Gig
SDA5 EXT4 20Gig /Ubuntu Natty DEV installed.
SDA6 EXT4 20Gig /USR
SDA7 EXT4 20Gig reserved for testing extra operating system.
SDA8 EXT4 265Gig /HOME
SDA9 NTFS 110Gig Window NT partition for shared data.

recluce
April 10th, 2011, 11:59 PM
An exclusive DVORAK layout would require new hardware and you know it. Unity (when coupled with Unity 2D) doesn't.
If we want to pull such straw men, then I guess people like you that just call Unity shiny would love an exclusively Terminal version of Ubuntu since any advancement in computer interaction is clearly bad.

Oh my, I stepped on somebody's toes. While I love my bash, I prefer the mature GUI that comes with GNOME for most things, as it makes many tasks easier to perform than a shell. From what I have seen of Unity, it fails to make my tasks easier than GNOME Classic. At that point, it is just useless bling to me.

BTW: you don't really need a new keyboard for DVORAK. You could just remember where everything is... :p

VinDSL
April 11th, 2011, 01:16 AM
Unity +Natty for me is just about the most functional, smoothest (with a few glitches), prettiest, fastest, desktop I have ever used. At this point I don't even imagine myself using anything different.

[But] it ought to work "right" before it is released as the primary desktop [...]
Agreed!

I can always tell when I'm "hooked" on a dev release, because...

I quit using the most recent stable release. In this case...

I haven't used my fully patched and modded Ubu 10.10 in 2 months.

I *guess* I like it when things... Just don't work. :D

Go figure...

tlcstat
April 11th, 2011, 01:23 AM
Greetings!

Agreed!

I can always tell when I'm "hooked" on a dev release, because...

I quit using the most recent stable release. In this case...

I haven't used my fully patched and modded Ubu 10.10 in 2 months.

I *guess* I like it when things... Just don't work. :grin:

Go figure...

We're on the same page my friend!
tlcstat

Merk42
April 11th, 2011, 03:25 AM
Oh my, I stepped on somebody's toes. While I love my bash, I prefer the mature GUI that comes with GNOME for most things, as it makes many tasks easier to perform than a shell. From what I have seen of Unity, it fails to make my tasks easier than GNOME Classic. At that point, it is just useless bling to me.
So have you even used Unity or GNOME Shell?

ranch hand
April 11th, 2011, 04:30 AM
They may discuss defaulting to the classic desktop. I doubt that they will do that for 11.04.

It is supposed to be the only desktop it in 11.10. To reach that they need as many folks using Unity in 11.04 to get the kinks worked out.

Just do not see how they can default to the panel desktop and have it working well in 11.10 AND be really ready for the next LTS that will be 12.04.

10.04 was not ready at all for that role. I have hope, if not faith, that they are able to learn from the past.

I do not like Unity but I sure hope for the sake of Ubuntu that it is the default DE in the released 11.04.

ronacc
April 11th, 2011, 04:32 AM
why is it necessary to assume that anyone who doesn't like unity has never used it or gnome-shell ? I can assure you I have and do use both and like neither ( I compile GS every few days to make sure I'm at the latest version) , I can at least tolerate GS , unity is a no go for me .

kansasnoob
April 11th, 2011, 04:44 AM
why is it necessary to assume that anyone who doesn't like unity has never used it or gnome-shell ? I can assure you I have and do use both and like neither ( I compile GS every few days to make sure I'm at the latest version) , I can at least tolerate GS , unity is a no go for me .

+1!

What confuses me the most is this insistence that those of us who simply dislike Unity must follow one of these steps:

1: Get used to it

2: Shut up and go away

3: Validate your dislike for the DE every freaking day!

4: Rinse and repeat the above

Any thought of trying to reshape things is somehow horrible now :(

mikewhatever
April 11th, 2011, 07:06 AM
Has there been any progress on the Gnome2 fork project?

MightyMouse
April 11th, 2011, 07:42 AM
I personally think that it should be possible to choose between the 'old' and 'new' for a longer period of time, not just for the beta release.

Unity might look sleek, but I agree with those that find it more cumbersome than the classic desktop. There are lots of people complaining that it takes too long to find and open applications and I also dislike the fact that for me it feels as if I no longer have control of my desktop. It should be up to me to decide which programs should be in the 'dock' (or whatever it is called) and I also really miss the panel with the possibility to place applets there. But I also agree that this could possibly be solved with better documentation (I assume lots of things can be adapted to personal taste but not everybody does know how)

One thing that really bothers me is that I have noticed that applets/programs installed via the Ubuntu software center tend to not show up instantly but sometimes require a restart. Well this is pretty much what annoyed the hell out of me in windows and I sincerely hope that this will improve or is only due to the fact that this is still a beta.

So I don't think that Unity/Gnome shell are ready and neither are lots of Ubuntu users.
I personally find it most important to have full control of my computer and as I said, it sure doesn't feel like I still have with Unity.

mikewhatever
April 11th, 2011, 07:55 AM
MightyMouse, Natty will have the old Gnome2 based interface as auto-fallback for its entire life, not just the testing period. You can also select it from the login screen instead of Unity.

MightyMouse
April 11th, 2011, 08:36 AM
I thought I read that this option would be no longer available in the next release, but then I probably misunderstood and they meant not Natty but Oneiric Ocelot.

Thanks for pointing this out.

Iehova
April 11th, 2011, 08:36 AM
There are lots of people complaining that it takes too long to find and open applications

I really don't get this complaint. It takes all of 2 clicks and about as many seconds to show all the installed applications (applications lens > see x more installed results) and if you want to view by category the dropdown is right there. I really don't think that takes any longer than the old style menu and if you know what program you want to launch (which I suspect you must 90% of the time) then unity is 10 times faster.


One thing that really bothers me is that I have noticed that applets/programs installed via the Ubuntu software center tend to not show up instantly but sometimes require a restart. Well this is pretty much what annoyed the hell out of me in windows and I sincerely hope that this will improve or is only due to the fact that this is still a beta.

Never happened to me, sounds like a bug. You should report it!

MightyMouse
April 11th, 2011, 08:53 AM
Well it might be just two clicks but I was happy without those clicks. It's for sure a matter of taste don't get me wrong but I don't see how this improved the way to open applications. And since there still is a panel-like bar at the top of the screen it doesn't 'save' screen space. But as I say, this is my personal opinion.
I cannot agree on the speed of unity. I might nor use the newest Laptop but I don't have the feeling that anything is running faster now then with the old desktop. But again, maybe that has to do with my hardware.

Well I will have to check if I can reproduce the error with the installation, if I can then maybe I should report it as a bug, good suggestion.

And I do want to point out that I think that the only way that a new Desktop is ever going to work is that everybody tries and keeps talking about what they like and what they don't like because how else can it become a good working Desktop in the future? So I keep working with it and see where it takes us, but when buy a house it's all about location, location, location and Ubuntu for me is all about customization, customization, customization, and Unity has to improve in that area in my humble opinion.

ZarathustraDK
April 11th, 2011, 08:56 AM
I hope they don't fall back to Gnome classic. Not because I'm a staunch pro/con of either shell, but because I realize that Ubuntu needs to take chances in order to evolve. That is what all the releases between LTS'es are for; even if an interface-decision sucks it's an invaluable lesson to learn.

That said I think Unity gets a lot of undeserved flack. "It's different than Gnome-classic" is simply not an argument, and something that all of us wouldn't regard as an argument if it was used in Windows/Linux debate.

Iehova
April 11th, 2011, 09:07 AM
Well it might be just two clicks but I was happy without those clicks. It's for sure a matter of taste don't get me wrong but I don't see how this improved the way to open applications. And since there still is a panel-like bar at the top of the screen it doesn't 'save' screen space. But as I say, this is my personal opinion.
I cannot agree on the speed of unity. I might nor use the newest Laptop but I don't have the feeling that anything is running faster now then with the old desktop. But again, maybe that has to do with my hardware.

Well YMMV of course. Speaking personally, I almost always know exactly the application I want to launch, so even if it isn't on the panel I can just bang the super key, or hit the BFB, type the first two letters of the app and there we go. That, for me, is a vast improvement and much quicker.


And I do want to point out that I think that the only way that a new Desktop is ever going to work is that everybody tries and keeps talking about what they like and what they don't like because how else can it become a good working Desktop in the future?

Indeed, and that's why it's so important, IMHO, to make unity default in a non-LTS release. Unity is by no means perfect (I, for one, am not going to stop banging on about bug 734946 (https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/734946)), but it'll quickly improve once you get large numbers of people using it. After all, this is why we make a distinction between LTS and non-LTS releases.


So I keep working with it and see where it takes us, but when buy a house it's all about location, location, location and Ubuntu for me is all about customization, customization, customization, and Unity has to improve in that area in my humble opinion.

I agree there should be more customisation, and it shouldn't be necessary to do so through CCSM. This isn't magically happen in time for natty, but again, once people start using unity and feedback starts coming through I would hope that this is something we'll see by the time 11.10 rolls around.

Harry33
April 11th, 2011, 09:34 AM
A number of working hours has been spent on Unity by Canonical.
Of course it is wise to include it in Natty.
At the same time I consider it equally important that Unity is set as default session only if the big and also even moderate bugs can be solved out and fixed before the final release.
If not, then there aren't many options left => Ubuntu Classic.

x-shaney-x
April 11th, 2011, 10:03 AM
I think it would be a pretty big kick to themselves to not have unity as default after all the work, publicity and hoo-hah.

BUT... One thing stands out more than anything else during my time testing unity in natty:

The endless popups saying one thing or another has encountered a problem and the constant compiz crashes.

To me personally, I think it may have been a mistake switching from mutter to compiz.
Mutter is simpler and less things to go wrong, though not as flashy of course.

mikewhatever
April 11th, 2011, 11:14 AM
I hope they don't fall back to Gnome classic. Not because I'm a staunch pro/con of either shell, but because I realize that Ubuntu needs to take chances in order to evolve. That is what all the releases between LTS'es are for; even if an interface-decision sucks it's an invaluable lesson to learn.
...

Just thought I'd point out that the fallback option is there for those card/driver combinations that can't do 3d, and consequently, are known not to work with Unity. Making it available is not the matter of not taking chances, but rather of testing various hardware setups and blacklisting that which doesn't work. IMHO, that is a much more sensible approach than 'let's do it and see what happens'.

seeker5528
April 11th, 2011, 10:09 PM
I hope they don't fall back to Gnome classic.

Some of the things Compiz+addons do for Unity, Metacity doesn't do for Unity-2d, so equivalent functions have to be written from scratch in a Unity-2d plugin. I think this really only affects window and desktop switching, but that is a pretty significant area of functionality and from what I have read from what other people posted of Unity-2d (since I have not used it myself) it seems like this works a little too different in Unity-2d to want to use it as a fallback at the moment.

Later, Seeker

symon1980
April 16th, 2011, 09:32 AM
So is there any definate announcement as to whether or not Ubuntu 11.04 will have classic destkop by default over unity?

My opinion is that they should hold on to unity Until it is fully functional before deciding to make it default in ubuntu. Give it another 6 months until it is ready instead of pushing it out as default half baked and buggy... which is it's current status... If Canonical care about their reputation as a "software company" then they won't release it until it is ready

pony-tail
April 16th, 2011, 11:29 AM
I honestly do not see the problem for which Unity is the solution .
I do not specifically dislike change but unless that change is an improvement it is pointless .
Change is not always good - for example Peak Oil , Peak Water , climate change etc .
Change for the sake of change is pointless . And that is what Unity appears to me to be .

Harry33
April 16th, 2011, 01:23 PM
So is there any definate announcement as to whether or not Ubuntu 11.04 will have classic destkop by default over unity?
...


The DE won't change anymore, less than two weeks to go.
So Ubuntu has choosen the first shell of its own in its history: Unity.

Here is some more info:
http://www.webupd8.org/2011/04/confirmed-unity-will-be-default-in.html

rbrick49
April 16th, 2011, 01:51 PM
just put the release date back a bit and let the devs sort it out why all the pressure I can wait

kansasnoob
April 16th, 2011, 02:16 PM
Why has this thread not been relegated to the community cafe?

There are ample DE choices easily available for Natty, particularly since Natty still uses gnome 2.32.

Change was coming soon with the introduction of gnome3 anyway so Canonical decided to focus on Unity rather than gnome-shell. Period!

rbrick49
April 16th, 2011, 02:32 PM
Why has this thread not been relegated to the community cafe?

There are ample DE choices easily available for Natty, particularly since Natty still uses gnome 2.32.

Change was coming soon with the introduction of gnome3 anyway so Canonical decided to focus on Unity rather than gnome-shell. Period!
well said kansasnoob

cariboo
April 16th, 2011, 04:10 PM
Moved to recurring.