We Get No Sunshine

[gerowen]

Just a little fact I learned today. My wife and I recently had our first baby on the 23rd. Yesterday I took him in for his 2 week checkup, and learned that we get such little sunshine here that all babies born at the hospital we went to get prescribed supplemental vitamin D droplets to add to their milk. For those of you who are curious we live in Washington, just about a 3 hour drive from Forks where the Twilight series takes place.

[Tristam Green]

First, congratulations! my wife and I had our first on July 10 last year. I don't need to tell you that it'll change your life.

Second, the vitamin d drops aren't because you get such little sunlight (though I'm sure in Washington state, you do get little light anyway with all the rain). It's because breastmilk is Vitamin-D-deficient. We live on the coast in South Carolina and we have to give our son Poly-Vi-Sol drops in his milk daily until he comes off breastmilk.

[gerowen]

Second, the vitamin d drops aren't because you get such little sunlight (though I'm sure in Washington state, you do get little light anyway with all the rain). It's because breastmilk is Vitamin-D-deficient. We live on the coast in South Carolina and we have to give our son Poly-Vi-Sol drops in his milk daily until he comes off breastmilk.

Ah ok. Here I was sharpening my wooden stakes, just waiting for the first glittering pretty-boy to come flying through my window. Oh well, :p But yeah we seriously get about a month in the summer where we get a steady amount of sunshine, 90% of the time for the rest of the year it's just gray and drizzling rain.

[Grenage]

You'd think that breast milk would naturally have all the vitamins required, wouldn't you?

gerowen: Congratulations, what's his name?

[gerowen]

You'd think that breast milk would naturally have all the vitamins required, wouldn't you?

gerowen: Congratulations, what's his name?

Alistair Dean Adams

7 pounds, 10 ounces at birth, it's so weird being a new dad. The wife is a para-educator and is making early attempts at familiarizing him with sign language so he can do basic signs before he learns to talk. Should make life a little easier on us.

[Grenage]

Alistair Dean Adams

7 pounds, 10 ounces at birth, it's so weird being a new dad. The wife is a para-educator and is making early attempts at familiarizing him with sign language so he can do basic signs before he learns to talk. Should make life a little easier on us.

That's awesome, best of luck! :)

[Tristam Green]

You'd think that breast milk would naturally have all the vitamins required, wouldn't you?

gerowen: Congratulations, what's his name?

You'd think, but that's something it lacks, evidently.

[fela]

You'd think, but that's something it lacks, evidently.

Humans evolved until their recent past in Africa, where there is alot of sunshine, compared with places like North America (ie. this example).

Just a thought.

[3Miro]

You'd think that breast milk would naturally have all the vitamins required, wouldn't you?


Not really. You should expect that breast milk would be sufficient more often hen not, but if it were always right, then people in the past wouldn't have had such a huge infant mortality rate.

In the same manner, you would think that I would be able to just live, but three times already doctors had to perform surgery to save my life. And I was never involved in an accident where I can get injured, it was just that my body is a natural piece of crap.

[nothingspecial]

But yeah we seriously get about a month in the summer where we get a steady amount of sunshine, 90% of the time for the rest of the year it's just gray and drizzling rain.

Sounds just like Manchester.

[Grenage]

Not really. You should expect that breast milk would be sufficient more often hen not, but if it were always right, then people in the past wouldn't have had such a huge infant mortality rate.

In the same manner, you would think that I would be able to just live, but three times already doctors had to perform surgery to save my life. And I was never involved in an accident where I can get injured, it was just that my body is a natural piece of crap.

I guess so; survival of the fittest doesn't really apply to humans that much any more (largely). Genetic manipulation aside, we're probably destined to turn into a bunch of sickly imbeciles. ;)

[Zlatan]

Just a little fact I learned today. My wife and I recently had our first baby on the 23rd. Yesterday I took him in for his 2 week checkup, and learned that we get such little sunshine here that all babies born at the hospital we went to get prescribed supplemental vitamin D droplets to add to their milk. For those of you who are curious we live in Washington, just about a 3 hour drive from Forks where the Twilight series takes place.

We were having 30-35oC and more for first 30 days from birth in July-April 2010 here in Lithuania... Were having drops of D as well.
Be careful and DO NOT have too much of it as it is equally bad as not enough of it.
Take care and good luck guys;) Sunshine always comes:)

[3Miro]

I guess so; survival of the fittest doesn't really apply to humans that much any more (largely). Genetic manipulation aside, we're probably destined to turn into a bunch of sickly imbeciles. ;)

Survival of the "fittest" will always apply, just that the definition of the "fittest" changes. For example: a caveman society has no benefit from a crippled person like Stephen Hawking, yet for us, he is of great value.

A bunch of "sickly imbeciles" armed with modern science and technology are stronger than a bunch of tough caveman ... hence the "sickly imbeciles" are "fitter".

(Please note that comparison between Stephen Hawking and me is not warranted in any way)

[Grenage]

Survival of the "fittest" will always apply, just that the definition of the "fittest" changes. For example: a caveman society has no benefit from a crippled person like Stephen Hawking, yet for us, he is of great value.

A bunch of "sickly imbeciles" armed with modern science and technology are stronger than a bunch of tough caveman ... hence the "sickly imbeciles" are "fitter".

(Please note that comparison between Stephen Hawking and me is not warranted in any way)

I agree that the definition of 'fittest' is subjective, but I was looking at it from a reproductive point of view. A healthy man with a brilliant mind is no more likely to have children than a foolish invalid, in fact modern trends seem to indicate that he's less likely to have as many, if any children.

I think I've taken this way off topic.

[3Miro]

I agree that the definition of 'fittest' is subjective, but I was looking at it from a reproductive point of view. A healthy man with a brilliant mind is no more likely to have children than a foolish invalid, in fact modern trends seem to indicate that he's less likely to have as many, if any children.

I think I've taken this way off topic.

Yes, this can become an interesting discussion, unfortunately it is OT.

[cgroza]

Humans evolved until their recent past in Africa, where there is alot of sunshine, compared with places like North America (ie. this example).

Just a thought.
Those are just proof less theories.

[Tristam Green]

Humans evolved until their recent past in Africa, where there is alot of sunshine, compared with places like North America (ie. this example).

Just a thought.

I'm *overjoyed* that you have returned to Ubuntu Forums.


I guess so; survival of the fittest doesn't really apply to humans that much any more (largely). Genetic manipulation aside, we're probably destined to turn into a bunch of sickly imbeciles. ;)

If our reliance on antibiotics doesn't end up doing us in, that is.

[fela]

Those are just proof less theories.

I thought there was archaeological evidence that people came from Africa originally.


I'm *overjoyed* that you have returned to Ubuntu Forums.

Umm....did I ever leave?

[rich52x]

Sounds just like Manchester.
Sounds just like the UK as a whole

[Donalt2010]

Sounds just like the UK as a whole

Indeed. Although the south of England usually have hot summers. Us northern folks get the grey skies and rain. Think N.Ireland has about 3 weeks of hot weather and not all in a row, one day it rains one day its sunny. Then in August its just grey and crap.:rolleyes:

[DZ*]

I thought there was archaeological evidence that people came from Africa originally.

Archaeological and also genetic. The evidence is so overwhelming, it's as good as fact. But it's impossible to "prove" a positive assertion, it's only possible to say that it's highly likely. There will always be people saying that we never been to the moon, that human evolution didn't happen, that HIV has nothing to do with AIDS, and things like that.

[LowSky]

its a new trend for doctors to give vitamin-d to patients. its the new cure all. and the science behind the claims are barely supportive. the reason it so much subscribed is due to the near zero percent chance of a bad reaction. its a win-win for the drug companies and the docs get a stipend for writing the script.

and lets be fair. how often does anyone bring newborn outside in any season.

[3Miro]

and lets be fair. how often does anyone bring newborn outside in any season.

You should probably get them outside every other day or so, but keep them clothed. Babies don't go out tanning.

If Washington is bad, then what about someone born in Alaska or Siberia in winter. That is not light at all.

[Paqman]

Second, the vitamin d drops aren't because you get such little sunlight (though I'm sure in Washington state, you do get little light anyway with all the rain). It's because breastmilk is Vitamin-D-deficient. We live on the coast in South Carolina and we have to give our son Poly-Vi-Sol drops in his milk daily until he comes off breastmilk.

Really? My daughter never had anything but breast milk, and I don't recall anyone ever mentioning anything about vitamin D. She had the vitamin K at birth, but that's it.


The wife is a para-educator and is making early attempts at familiarizing him with sign language so he can do basic signs before he learns to talk. Should make life a little easier on us.

We use baby signing with ours. It really works, but it'll take quite a while before he starts to use them himself. I don't think you'll get much back from him before 6 months, but after that it's really handy for them to tell you when they're thirsty and the like.

[youbuntu]

Little sunshine? You ought to try a stay here in England! :lol:

Congratulations! :D

[koenn]

Second, the vitamin d drops aren't because you get such little sunlight (though I'm sure in Washington state, you do get little light anyway with all the rain). It's because breastmilk is Vitamin-D-deficient.

Breastmilk isn't inherently Vitamin-D-deficient. It can have an insufficient vit. D level if the mother lacks vitamine D, which can be due to lack of sunlight.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2702/is-breast-feeding-really-better-for-babies-than-formula

[Tristam Green]

and lets be fair. how often does anyone bring newborn outside in any season.

Hi there. I've been taking my son everywhere with me since he was born. I keep him clothed and hat on with blankets shielding him from the sun, but he gets fresh air daily.


Breastmilk isn't inherently Vitamin-D-deficient. It can have an insufficient vit. D level if the mother lacks vitamine D, which can be due to lack of sunlight.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2702/is-breast-feeding-really-better-for-babies-than-formula

Then there's a great explanation for why my wife's milk is Vit D-deficient, she's a redhead and fair-skinned.

[KL_72_TR]

Don't be afraid of mother Nature's decisions. Is bad to be in Sahara, is bad to be in North America.... Tell the doctor: Were in the hell should we be?
My opinion, less pills more health.

[KL_72_TR]

Breastmilk isn't inherently Vitamin-D-deficient. It can have an insufficient vit. D level if the mother lacks vitamine D, which can be due to lack of sunlight.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2702/is-breast-feeding-really-better-for-babies-than-formula
All the people leaving near the hemispheres must have serious problems due to lack of sunlight and vitamin D! Well taking a look at the Vikings ...
The problem must be something else.

[DZ*]

Then there's a great explanation for why my wife's milk is Vit D-deficient, she's a redhead and fair-skinned.

Redhead, fair-skinned people produce more vit D than dark skinned, given the same amount of sun exposure.

[clanky]

Sounds just like Manchester.

A month of sunshine in Manchester, who are you trying to kid? :D

Congratulation gerowen (and mrs. gerowen)

[fela]

Archaeological and also genetic. The evidence is so overwhelming, it's as good as fact. But it's impossible to "prove" a positive assertion, it's only possible to say that it's highly likely. There will always be people saying that we never been to the moon, that human evolution didn't happen, that HIV has nothing to do with AIDS, and things like that.

Hear that cgroza? :)

And yeah, I agree on that point that there'll always be conspiracy theorists, or people that believe in god, hell, and other such garbage...

[pricetech]

Congrats on the new youngun.

[koenn]

All the people leaving near the hemispheres must have serious problems due to lack of sunlight and vitamin D! Well taking a look at the Vikings ...
The problem must be something else.

they compensate with input from food (fatty fish, meat, eggs) and extended periods of daylight during summer.

http://www.mnh.si.edu/arctic/html/resources_faq.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D

[Ranko Kohime]

You'd think that breast milk would naturally have all the vitamins required, wouldn't you?

gerowen: Congratulations, what's his name?
It does, and one should be very wary of anyone suggesting that supplements are needed. A woman's breasts will produce milk containing all a child needs, up to the point of starving the mother of needed nutrients.

So long as the mother has no vitamin deficiencies, her milk shouldn't, either.

[vehemoth]

Hear that cgroza? :)

And yeah, I agree on that point that there'll always be conspiracy theorists, or people that believe in god, hell, and other such garbage...

Don't bring religion into a thread of such a topic, however why is it garbage if there are flaws in the science that tries to disprove it.

[mips]

Congratulations!

I hate cold, rainy & overcast weather. Good thing I live in Africa.

Here's a little song for your boy ;)


African Skye Blue

African sky blue, your children wait for the dawn
African sky blue, soon a new day will be born
African sky blue
African sky blue, will you bless my life?
African sunshine, soon you will warm your children’s eyes
The african river water will dance and leap in your morning light
African sunshine
African river water, will you bless my life?
Oh will you bless my life?
Oh will you bless my life?
Oh will you bless my life?
What can I know?
What can I dream?
What can I hope?
What will the future bring?
You shine through me, but will you see me through?
African sky blue
African thunderstorm, your soldiers march through the air
The african rain will fall and wash away all my tears
African falling rain
African falling rain, will you bless my life?
Oh will you bless my life?
Oh will you bless my life?
Oh will you bless my life?
The warrior’s now a worker and his war is underground
With cordite in the darkness he milks the bleeding veins of gold
When the smoking rockface murmurs, he always thinks of you
African sky blue, will you see him through?
Hum-oh-hum
Hum-oh-hum...

- Johnny Clegg & Savuka Lyrics

You can listen to it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li74g-f5aA0




.

[Lightstar]

You'd think that breast milk would naturally have all the vitamins required, wouldn't you?

gerowen: Congratulations, what's his name?

One of my coworkers starts her day with a bottle of coke and a bag of chips. I highly doubt her breast milk would feed a baby well, it's probably just oily discharge D:

However I have another friend who works out 4 days a week, eat more than enough veggies, meat, fruits. Had 3 babies and she's still as thin as she was when she was 18. I'm sure hers would fulfill the baby's needs

[Grenage]

One of my coworkers starts her day with a bottle of coke and a bag of chips. I highly doubt her breast milk would feed a baby well, it's probably just oily discharge D:

However I have another friend who works out 4 days a week, eat more than enough veggies, meat, fruits. Had 3 babies and she's still as thin as she was when she was 18. I'm sure hers would fulfill the baby's needs

Yup, that probably makes all the difference!

[Cracklepop]

Second, the vitamin d drops aren't because you get such little sunlight (though I'm sure in Washington state, you do get little light anyway with all the rain). It's because breastmilk is Vitamin-D-deficient.

Or more accurately, it's vitamin D isn't high enough if the baby and mother don't receive much vitamin D from sunlight.

[Tristam Green]

What do PhD/M.D.-holding doctors who have spoken with me about this subject less than a year ago know about it anyway? Clearly the Community Café is the best source for medical advice and fact.

I demand credentials, not Interwebs sources.

[Cracklepop]

What do PhD/M.D.-holding doctors who have spoken with me about this subject less than a year ago know about it anyway? Clearly the Community Café is the best source for medical advice and fact.

I demand credentials, not Interwebs sources.

1. Not all mothers require vitamin D to be added to their milk.
2. Mothers with more exposure to sunshine have higher levels of vitamin D in their milk.
3. Babies receiving less vitamin D from sunshine require more from milk.

Draw your own conclusions.

[Grenage]

What do PhD/M.D.-holding doctors who have spoken with me about this subject less than a year ago know about it anyway? Clearly the Community Café is the best source for medical advice and fact.

I demand credentials, not Interwebs sources.

I think that when it comes to diet, a lot research shows varying results. Tea is bad for you, tea is good for you, eggs give you cholesterol, eggs give you cholesterol that's OK, et cetera. I've had a doctor tell me one thing, and another completely contradict him.

I'll take a doctor's opinion over some hippy's blog, but common sense goes a long way.

[Tristam Green]

I think that when it comes to diet, a lot research shows varying results. Tea is bad for you, tea is good for you, eggs give you cholesterol, eggs give you cholesterol that's OK, et cetera. I've had a doctor tell me one thing, and another completely contradict him.

I'll take a doctor's opinion over some hippy's blog, but common sense goes a long way.

This is the truth. However, going on what I was told at the time my son was born, I think it was safe to err on the side of caution.

I mean, it's not like they had a live-feed IV drip of pure Vit-D into his system or anything, lol.

[Grenage]

This is the truth. However, going on what I was told at the time my son was born, I think it was safe to err on the side of caution.

I mean, it's not like they had a live-feed IV drip of pure Vit-D into his system or anything, lol.

If we had a child (and we hope to soon), we'd do the same. :)

[Tristam Green]

If we had a child (and we hope to soon), we'd do the same. :)

I've done tons of awesome stuff in my short lifetime, but nothing remotely compares. I can safely say that it really is a defining moment to be able to first hold your firstborn.

[Elfy]

I can safely say that it really is a defining moment to be able to first hold your firstborn.

This is the truth - and it doesn't get worse when it's the third :)

When you get to see one of yours all grown up, see them out and think "Yea, I'd be happy if you were just a friend" you know you've more or less done it right.

Good luck to those here with young ones and those hoping for some younglings.

Proud father post.

[ikt]

I think that when it comes to diet, a lot research shows varying results. Tea is bad for you, tea is good for you, eggs give you cholesterol, eggs give you cholesterol that's OK, et cetera. I've had a doctor tell me one thing, and another completely contradict him.

Cynicism is not scepticism.

[Grenage]

Cynicism is not scepticism.

Quite so, but what is your point?

[whiskeylover]

Congratulations gerowen.
-First time dad of an 11 month old.

[koenn]

What do PhD/M.D.-holding doctors who have spoken with me about this subject less than a year ago know about it anyway? Clearly the Community Café is the best source for medical advice and fact.

I demand credentials, not Interwebs sources.

You're right. If a doctor prescribes something for your kid, I'd say give it to him, no matter what some random people on an interwebs forum say.

Otoh, when it comes to the more general facts, like whether or not Vikings suffered from Vit. D deficiency, well, maybe certain interwebs sources can shed some light on the matter.


Anyway, maybe this thread should go back to more congratulations and proud father stuff.
:)