VLC by default in Ubuntu?

[StephanG]

As far as I understand, Ubuntu is going to include Qt apps in 11.04, provided that they are "best of class". Qt apps that don't have any KDE dependancy seems to be the minority.

But, VLC does seem to fall into this category of being Qt, but not KDE. So, I was wondering:

How many of you would be interested in seeing VLC become the default media player in Ubuntu? And, why do you feel that way?

The reason I'm asking, is because everyone I ask seems to install VLC immediately after a fresh install anyway. Not necessarily as a preferred video player, but often in a "catch all" kind of way. i.e. It plays anything that happens to have problems with other players.

P.S. I know that Ubuntu 11.04 is already in beta, so its probably too late to make that kind of change now. I'm just curious on what the general concensus is.

[Random_Dude]

I think it would be great.
I also feel like everyone just installs it anyway, and it plays every video format I've come across.

I don't see a reason not to. Unless you don't like traffic cones.

[alaukikyo]

As far as I understand, Ubuntu is going to include Qt apps in 11.04, provided that they are "best of class".

not from 11.04 but from 11.10 .

[MrNatewood]

The problem with VLC as far as I understand is of it's free distribution. It's illegal to distribute some of it's included codecs in places like the USA.

In contrast, gstreamer is modular and you can install specific codecs according to the user's wishes.

[smellyman]

too many codec software patents in vlc. For some countries that would be bad for Canonical....

[jawilljr]

I voted no because VLC doesn't do gapless playback.

Jerry

[3Miro]

VLC is good to open files that other players cannot, however, if given the choice I prefer Totem and Parole. Both of them are considerably faster to load and play. I use VLC as a backup, if I come across a file I cannot play or specifically for DVDs.

[PunkLV]

Come to think of it, I'd be rather rather delighted to see VLC as a default and pre-installed player.
Despite using it only for video playback and immediate apt-get purge totem* on a clean install, VLC is just too 'stand-alone' to be included in Ubuntu: has its own community and developers, codecs, skin-artists and so on.

On the other hand, some sort of check-box list of 'Desired sowtfware' during installation would be awesome. (Browser, audio/video palyer, .pdf editor/viewer, image manipulation)

[StephanG]

The problem with VLC as far as I understand is of it's free distribution. It's illegal to distribute some of it's included codecs in places like the USA.

In contrast, gstreamer is modular and you can install specific codecs according to the user's wishes.

Does this mean that its illegal for US citizens to download and install VLC, even on Windows PCs? And if you're in the US, is it then illegal to install those same codecs in GStreamer?

Sorry for not understanding, but this seems like a very convoluted system.

So, its illegal to freely ship a media player that plays .avi or whatever, but, its not illegal to download that media player to play that same file? Isn't this discrimination? If you have internet, you can freely watch your videos. But if you don't you have to either buy the software, or else, somehow convert them to free video formats?

And if Ubuntu ships CDs to America that help to download illegal codecs, does that mean that Ubuntu is an accessory to crime?

Sorry, but I'm just having a very difficult time understanding where the line is drawn between legal, and illegal.

[Spice Weasel]

Does this mean that its illegal for US citizens to download and install VLC, even on Windows PCs? And if you're in the US, is it then illegal to install those same codecs in GStreamer?

Sorry for not understanding, but this seems like a very convoluted system.

So, its illegal to freely ship a media player that plays .avi or whatever, but, its not illegal to download that media player to play that same file? Isn't this discrimination? If you have internet, you can freely watch your videos. But if you don't you have to either buy the software, or else, somehow convert them to free video formats?

And if Ubuntu ships CDs to America that help to download illegal codecs, does that mean that Ubuntu is an accessory to crime?

Sorry, but I'm just having a very difficult time understanding where the line is drawn between legal, and illegal.

Some codecs (such as MP3) are patented. (in the US, we are more sensible here in the EU)

When you buy Windows, it comes with Windows Media Player. Included with the price for the operating system, is a limited licence to use the codecs.

When you haven't paid for your operating system, you haven't paid the licence fee to use the codecs. So you are breaking the law.

[LowSky]

I vote no. VLC while amazing is not user friendly. totem while not codec friendly is usable by the most computer illiterate.

[cyb3r_sn4k3]

VLC takes a little more resources than others like totem which is based on mplayer so VLC might be slower on older hardware. I think thats the reason why its not there by default. And also its a bit harder to use than other players even though it supports ALOT of codecs :)

[Spr0k3t]

Yes include it... but don't make it the default media player. Give it the default for video playback. Audio wise, leave that to the other players.

[scouser73]

Yes VLC should be a default video install on Ubuntu.

[tjeremiah]

It needs a "resume from last spot" feature first.

[youbuntu]

No, but I do use it ALL the time. It should be optional, as it is non-free software. I'll refrain from Stallmanising you :lol:

[SeijiSensei]

I'd vote for smplayer well before I'd endorse VLC. Being just a front-end to mplayer, it abides by the legalities already determined by the Ubuntu developers for mplayer.


Does this mean that its illegal for US citizens to download and install VLC, even on Windows PCs? And if you're in the US, is it then illegal to install those same codecs in GStreamer?

That's what Fluendo (http://www.fluendo.com/) is for.

[NMFTM]

Couldn't the VLC player be separated from it's patent infringing codecs? If so, why not separate it into two packages? Include the player and free codecs in the default install and have an optional "VLC addon codecs" meta package that would fetch all the legally iffy ones.

[CraigPaleo]

That's what Fluendo (http://www.fluendo.com/) is for.

The codec police came knocking on my door one day, wanting to see if I had a license to be playing mp3s. I showed them my Fluendo and one of the officers told me everything was in order and to carry on. Fluendo saved my life!

[Lightstar]

I think it's the best video out there, and it's always the first application I download/install after my OS is setup. Whether it's windows or linux.

Including it wouldn't be a bad move.

[Starks]

mplayer2 is better than VLC will ever be

[Judo]

VLC takes a little more resources than others like totem which is based on mplayer so VLC might be slower on older hardware. I think thats the reason why its not there by default. And also its a bit harder to use than other players even though it supports ALOT of codecs :)
Totem is in no way related to MPlayer and both players use the (virtually) same decoders so the performance should be identical.

I'm sure there would be legal issues with including it, as there would be with including gstreamer plugins for totem but I'd like to use one of those. Although I think gstreamer adoption would be very beneficial in the long run and I don't see anything horribly wrong with Totem so I'd prefer it to be the default player.

That said, I use VLC 99% of the time.

[Dustin2128]

No, but I do use it ALL the time. It should be optional, as it is non-free software. I'll refrain from Stallmanising you :lol:
What are you talking about? VLC is GPL'd.

[beew]

Couldn't the VLC player be separated from it's patent infringing codecs? If so, why not separate it into two packages? Include the player and free codecs in the default install and have an optional "VLC addon codecs" meta package that would fetch all the legally iffy ones.

Then what is the point of using VLC? The greatest selling point of VLC is that it plays anything you throw at it, take that away it is just another media player. If you need to install extra packages you may as well install VLC, takes the same amount of work, which is several clicks in Synaptic.

I use smplayer as my main video player and VLC as my secondary player (strangely I have one or two video clips playable only on VLC, don't think that is a codec problem, probably has something to do with mplayer settings) Totem is crap.

[gnomeuser]

*sigh* Has it been 3 weeks already. Every month or so someone proposes this utterly daft move.

Shipping VLC as it is is illegal and will ensure expensive visits to Canonical from amongst others the MPEG-LA lawyers. Contributory Patent Infringement is such an ugly word.

Stripping the codecs out of vlc is a large amount of work and given it's architecture reinserting them to enable support for those not afflited with software patents is damn near impossible (compared to GStreamer where this use case is entirely smooth).

GStreamer has checks done on every commit, a serious ecosystem of companies and developers who depend and contribute to it. It's code quality is through the roof. VLC has.. nothing of the sort.

In short doing this in any way that could be implemented would replace a streamlined solution with a block of badly designed wood. Entirely unusable and deprived of it's one redeeming quality (namely that things play in VLC - no codecs remember), and with no easy way to regain it.

It is a bad idea, and yet it rears it's ugly uninformed head every couple of weeks. Search, do you use it?

Now can we please move this to Recurring?

[NMFTM]

Stripping the codecs out of vlc is a large amount of work and given it's architecture reinserting them to enable support for those not afflited with software patents is damn near impossible (compared to GStreamer where this use case is entirely smooth).
It's been awhile since I installed VLC. But last time I did, I remember selecting the main VLC package and then having all the codecs install as separate packages along with the main one. IIRC, isn't that pretty much what separating the player from the codecs is?

[beew]

mplayer2 is better than VLC will ever be

Actually no. I tested on two machines with Nvidia and ATI cards, in both cases VLC works better than mplayer (latest version from ppa) if FOSS drivers are installed. mplayer stutters quite a bit in 720p playback but vlc handles it just fine. At least for the Nvidia machine (haven't tried the other), mplayer does a lot better than VLC with the closed driver installed as VLC cannot use VDPAU.

[RiceMonster]

What are you talking about? VLC is GPL'd.

Probably referring to support for mp3 codecs and the like. Therefore, it's not "free as in what Stallman said".

[beew]

It's been awhile since I installed VLC. But last time I did, I remember selecting the main VLC package and then having all the codecs install as separate packages along with the main one. IIRC, isn't that pretty much what separating the player from the codecs is?

But instead of going through the troubles to remove the codecs and then have users reinstall a package (which many users would not even know it is required if VLC is the default, they would expect it to be complete) why not just let the users install VLC "in one piece"? It is easier for both the packagers and the users.

[dazthejunglist]

i love VLC its the only media player ive found that can play every media format on my computer

[Lucradia]

If VLC becomes default, I'll have to go Xubuntu :V Because I want a simple player, not something with all the bells and whistles. (Even though that's the plan anyway with unity.)

Xubuntu changed its player to parole instead of totem by the way, just a release or two ago.

[beew]

If VLC becomes default, I'll have to go Xubuntu :V Because I want a simple player, not something with all the bells and whistles. (Even though that's the plan anyway with unity.)

Xubuntu changed its player to parole instead of totem by the way, just a release or two ago.


Sorry dude, it sounds really absurd to switch distro because of default media player. You can uninstall the default and install what you want with a few clicks. Whenever I install Ubuntu, Totem (along with stupid games like gnome-mahjog) is one of the first things I uninstall.

[CraigPaleo]

It's been awhile since I installed VLC. But last time I did, I remember selecting the main VLC package and then having all the codecs install as separate packages along with the main one. IIRC, isn't that pretty much what separating the player from the codecs is?

It is. I see the codec dependencies as well. It shouldn't be very difficult.

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/4939/vlcq.png

[Dustin2128]

Probably referring to support for mp3 codecs and the like. Therefore, it's not "free as in what Stallman said".
Yeah, it is glossywhite after all ;)

[Legendary_Bibo]

I thought VLC was awesome until I started having issues with it stuttering all the time ever since I upgraded to Maverick. I use MPlayer and Gloobus to watch videos now, but the thing is they don't seem to ever want to play DVDs, but VLC will (I have the libdvdcss2 blah blah stuff installed), but it stutters horribly and just has issues. I tried reinstalling it but that didn't work. Maybe I should purge it and then reinstall it, but as long as gloobus and mplayer plays all the videos I throw at it I'm in no rush.

[nrundy]

VLC is the best of every player I've tried. I wish they would improve the appearance of the control buttons, but performance is spectacular.

I even use it as default player on My Windows box.

[Lucradia]

Sorry dude, it sounds really absurd to switch distro because of default media player. You can uninstall the default and install what you want with a few clicks. Whenever I install Ubuntu, Totem (along with stupid games like gnome-mahjog) is one of the first things I uninstall.

Totem can play DVDs fine for me. (even allows me to use the mouse AND keyboard to select menus, and abides by the DVD's script to autoplay if the DVD is coded to bypass the root / title) What's wrong with it? Plus, it supports gstreamer. If you ask me, I'd rather install my codecs myself, than to have the meta do it for me.

[beew]

Totem can play DVDs fine for me. (even allows me to use the mouse AND keyboard to select menus, and abides by the DVD's script to autoplay if the DVD is coded to bypass the root / title) What's wrong with it? Plus, it supports gstreamer. If you ask me, I'd rather install my codecs myself, than to have the meta do it for me.

Totem chokes on everything >= 720p for me. I only use SMPlayer and VLC for videos (banshee is also garbage when it comes to videos)

[Lucradia]

Totem chokes on everything >= 720p for me. I only use SMPlayer and VLC for videos (banshee is also garbage when it comes to videos)

Who needs 720p? All my DVDs play in standard, which is fine. (I can force it to widescreen, but meh. Some DVDs will force it to widescreen itself, automagically somehow, which is what Tower of Druaga did.)

[beew]

Who needs 720p? All my DVDs play in standard, which is fine. (I can force it to widescreen, but meh. Some DVDs will force it to widescreen itself, automagically somehow, which is what Tower of Druaga did.)

You may not need 720p but I do and want; no one tells you to uninstall totem, but for me it is garbage, I uninstall it the first chance I have, both SMplayer and VLC are 100 times better.

[lucazade]

Never had a issue with totem, also with 1080p videos and exotic codecs.. simply rocksolid.
VLC is a killer application for Win and Osx, for Linux we've better players.

[beew]

VLC is a killer application for Win and Osx, for Linux we've better players.

Yes, and that is Smplayer (mplayer) not Totem by a long shot.

[Lucradia]

Yes, and that is Smplayer (mplayer) not Totem by a long shot.

:rolleyes: Stop pushing your ideals on others if you don't want them to say that they would move to another distro. You don't want Ubuntu turning into windows, do you? Community-wise?

[beew]

:rolleyes: Stop pushing your ideals on others if you don't want them to say that they would move to another distro. You don't want Ubuntu turning into windows, do you? Community-wise?


How am I pushing anything? I was using Totem to make the point that default doesn't matter(I can get rid of it and install whatever with a few clicks). I don't even want VLC to be the default because to do so would need to strip it of the codecs, and that would defeat the purpose. It is you who started hounding me because I said I don't like Totem. You are pushing my friend, not me.

[Thad E Ginathom]

VLC is broken in Ubuntu, because it will not give gapless playback of continuous music from, for instance, Western classical or live-performance sources.

This is a problem that seems to have been talked about for years, but never fixed.

Unless, or until, it is, the idea of VLC as a default player is absurd. It just does not work properly.

Unashamedly strong view here. It is because VLC was my personal default player, in Windows, for years, and I am very, very sad to have to dump it.

(for a simple, straightforward, audio player, I now use Aqualung --- but sure, this thread is about VLC, not other players)

(Oh, and yes, I know that VLC is not the only one: all the others that don't work could be cleared out too!)

[Paqman]

I always install VLC on my systems because it reliably plays anything, but I wouldn't like to see it in the default install unless it was given a major facelift. The interface is terrible.

[TREESofRIGHTEOUSNESS]

VLC is as everyone who uses it knows the one player you can count on to play ANY file of ANY type. I also like it because it loads much quicker than the mplayer GUI. And it has the options to skip the annoying DVD content.

[Johnb0y]

I always install VLC on my systems because it reliably plays anything, but I wouldn't like to see it in the default install unless it was given a major facelift. The interface is terrible.

+1 - most stable, basic player ever had, never had any issues and couldnt find anything that didnt play on it... *suppose... i wasnt really looking, but neverless, still epic! but would love a face lift for it!

[Thad E Ginathom]

All of that is true. I even like the interface!

But... the gaps...

(I'll go on using it for my rare movie matching)

[Ric_NYC]

Yes... Yes!!! Oh, yes!!!


:d

[Thad E Ginathom]

I feel very stupid. I never realised that VLC doesn't play seamlessly in Windows either.

[wolfen69]

It just does not work properly.


VLC has always worked great for me in linux. Actually, a friend of mine who is a vlc junkie, gave up windows because the linux version of vlc works smoother for him.

[johnnybgoode83]

I only use VLC when I want to watch a DVD on my computer because it's the only one I can get to support menus. For everything I use Totem as it is a rock solid application and I have no need for any others.

[vehemoth]

I prefer smplayer as it can automagically restart from where you left off when you start watching again.

[johnnybgoode83]

I prefer smplayer as it can automagically restart from where you left off when you start watching again.

Totem can do that too

[vehemoth]

Totem can do that too
I didn't know that. Since which version? and how well does it work without gnome?

[el_koraco]

and how well does it work without gnome?

Without Gnome, all right. Without Gstreamer, not so much. But like all Gnome programs, it brings in a lot of stuff


The following extra packages will be installed:
gnome-settings-daemon gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly hwdata libboost-python1.42.0 libepc-1.0-2
libepc-common libepc-ui-1.0-2 libgalago3 libgdata-common libgdata-google1.2-1 libgdata1.2-1 libgdata7
libgmime-2.4-2 libgnome-desktop-2-17 libgnomekbd-common libgnomekbd4 libsidplay1 libtidy-0.99-0
libtotem-plparser17 libtracker-client-0.8-0 libupower-glib1 libxklavier16 python-axiom python-beautifulsoup
python-clientform python-coherence python-epsilon python-feedparser python-gdata python-gdbm python-gst0.10
python-httplib2 python-louie python-mechanize python-nevow python-openssl python-pam python-pyasn1
python-pysqlite2 python-rdflib python-serial python-tagpy python-twisted-bin python-twisted-conch
python-twisted-core python-twisted-web python-utidylib python-zope.interface totem-coherence totem-common
totem-plugins
Suggested packages:
gnome-screensaver sidplay-base xsidplay python-gdbm-dbg python-gst0.10-dev python-gst0.10-dbg
python-openssl-doc python-openssl-dbg python-pysqlite2-doc python-pysqlite2-dbg python-wxgtk2.8 python-wxgtk2.6
python-wxgtk python-twisted-bin-dbg python-tk python-qt3 python-profiler python-z3c.recipe.sphinxdoc
gnome-codec-install gstreamer0.10-pulseaudio totem-mozilla gromit
The following NEW packages will be installed:
gnome-settings-daemon gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly hwdata libboost-python1.42.0 libepc-1.0-2
libepc-common libepc-ui-1.0-2 libgalago3 libgdata-common libgdata-google1.2-1 libgdata1.2-1 libgdata7
libgmime-2.4-2 libgnome-desktop-2-17 libgnomekbd-common libgnomekbd4 libsidplay1 libtidy-0.99-0
libtotem-plparser17 libtracker-client-0.8-0 libupower-glib1 libxklavier16 python-axiom python-beautifulsoup
python-clientform python-coherence python-epsilon python-feedparser python-gdata python-gdbm python-gst0.10
python-httplib2 python-louie python-mechanize python-nevow python-openssl python-pam python-pyasn1
python-pysqlite2 python-rdflib python-serial python-tagpy python-twisted-bin python-twisted-conch
python-twisted-core python-twisted-web python-utidylib python-zope.interface totem totem-coherence totem-common
totem-plugins
0 upgraded, 53 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
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After this operation, 77.1 MB of additional disk space will be used.
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[wolfen69]

Without Gnome, all right. Without Gstreamer, not so much. But like all Gnome programs, it brings in a lot of stuff


After this operation, 77.1 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]?


77mb is a lot? It's a drop in the bucket on most hard drives.

[LinuxFan999]

Banshee is horrible, please include VLC instead.

[johnnybgoode83]

I didn't know that. Since which version? and how well does it work without gnome?

It's always done it for me, you just need to click a check box in preferences. I don't know how well it would work outside of gnome but I assume it would be ok.

[johnnybgoode83]

Banshee is horrible, please include VLC instead.

I say go back to Rhythmbox instead of Banshee actually. That is one application I have never had problems with.

[SeijiSensei]

Did any of you who just suddenly joined this thread actually read it from the beginning? In particular, did you read the postings about the legality of including patented codecs and "anti-circumvention (http://www.chillingeffects.org/anticircumvention/)" technologies like libdvdcss2?

Please read the entire thread before posting about why VLC should be a default.

[vehemoth]

I say go back to Rhythmbox instead of Banshee actually. That is one application I have never had problems with.
Have you tried clementine?

Did any of you who just suddenly joined this thread actually read it from the beginning? In particular, did you read the postings about the legality of including patented codecs and "anti-circumvention (http://www.chillingeffects.org/anticircumvention/)" technologies like libdvdcss2?

Please read the entire thread before posting about why VLC should be a default.
I read the first pageand felt that it's unlikely that VLC will ever get in unless you can ship it with only some codecs (don't think you can do that currently).


My guess is totem will be default for a while longer, things like empathy probably will be as well.

[Thad E Ginathom]

VLC has always worked great for me in linux. Actually, a friend of mine who is a vlc junkie, gave up windows because the linux version of vlc works smoother for him.If you always listen to music that is divided into tracks, with a silence in between each track, then yes, it really does work fine. Otherwise, it doesn't --- and that is a matter of fact that you can find acknowledged by the VLC people themselves. At least, they know it doesn't do gapless playback, but aren't bothered about it.

I felt so stupid (happens often), because I complained on the VLC forum about this happening in Linux, only to be told, it happens in Windows too, so tried, and... yes it does, although it seems less of an interruption.

I guess I haven't listened to a lot of Western classical since the days of vinyl (long, grey beard mode!) and I only have one or two classical CDs. It just happened that, recently, I got a Mahler Mood and ... how can anyone listen to something that stops for a noticeable moment every few minutes? You cannot! At the time, I found the tool that joins wave files, just so I could listen properly, but it began the search for proper gapless play, and gapless play that just happened, without having to mess with any cross-fading kludge, that might start affecting inter-track gaps that should be there.

My search has ended with Aqualung. It has completely continuous play, and satisfies my other requirements of a simple, easy-to-use interface which does not try to look like a cross between a magazine and a browser, and does not impose a library management system on me when all I want to do is a file->open, a disc->play, or even just a drag and drop. Personally, I want a music player, and not a media manager (but Aqualung has library functions too) but accept that many have large media collections, and extensive tagging, and that such management is essential to them.

Of course... Although it would certainly be good to be included, Aqualung is a sound player. The default player in Ubuntu has to be a multi-media player.

[Lucas Malor]

Excuse me for necroposting... but for what I know VLC is in Universe. Where is the licence problem? If there's some not-free issue, it should be in the Multiverse, or not?

[IWantFroyo]

Too much codec stuff. If they could, it would be great, though.