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cafejunkie
March 31st, 2011, 08:15 PM
Greetings fellow Ubuntu users, developers and enthusiasts. I am interested in your opinion on Ubuntu haters (and haters in general). First a short background.
I've been using Linux since 1998. I started with Red Hat. I've used countless distros (including Gentoo, Arch, Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora, Mepis, Slackware and more). Not only am I a user but I am also a developer.
Now, in all of my years using Linux I have never gotten any "hate" for using any other distro. The moment I mention I actually like and enjoy using Ubuntu on a few machines I get endless hate from supposed "hardcore" FOSS enthusiasts. Now, if the hate towards Ubuntu was for legitimate reasons such as poor all around performance and software issues with the distro I would understand (afterall, what distro doesn't have their problems?) but it's not. The hate is towards the users. Both n00bs and gurus alike.
Now, I understand the hacker culture (I've been a part of it for a long time) and I know that there is a general dislike of n00bs but don't hate on someone who actually knows their stuff just because they use what might be called a "n00b friendly" distro. If you ask me, Ubuntu is great. It is great for Linux and it is great for users.
In a nutshell, I am sick of being disrespected and immediately discredited just for using (and recommending) Ubuntu now and then.

My question for you:
Have you gotten any hate for using Ubuntu from the hacker community? If so, what was your response? Are you trying to help improve the "Ubuntu User Stereotype"?

Tristam Green
March 31st, 2011, 08:25 PM
No, but I got hate from an obnoxious Gentoo user/Google Project Manager once. Interesting, given that Google (at the time at least) uses Debian for their server infrastructure...

lucazade
March 31st, 2011, 08:28 PM
"If you have no critics, you’ll likely have no success." Malcom X

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/373/vizl.png

obviously there are also other reasons, but this one sounds to me the most plausible!

inobe
March 31st, 2011, 08:36 PM
the haters are just old, and want to keep linux all to themselves.

i admire their selfishness, therefore i don't argue it.

cafejunkie
March 31st, 2011, 08:40 PM
the haters are just old, and want to keep linux all to themselves.

i admire their selfishness, therefore i don't argue it.

lol, that could possibly be one of the big reasons. Although I understand that mentality (in a way, I kind of miss the "Good 'ol days" when Linux was difficult to install :P). But, at the same time you would think they would be excited that Ubuntu is making Linux available to a wider array of people. Afterall, we're all F/LOSS enthusiasts and developers and anything that keeps people away from bloated, under-performing proprietary software is a good thing in my opinion.

d3v1150m471c
March 31st, 2011, 08:53 PM
IMO Some people can't feel complete unless they have something to whine about. :))

inobe
March 31st, 2011, 08:54 PM
i hear numerous claims, one being, they don't contribute anything, or try this, this is how i learned.

the last one is a respectable statement, because it seems like they are reminiscing on how it used to be, maybe what they consider "the rite way" to learn.

i can only assume their meaning and intentions, "users of ubuntu have linux before them, yet they haven't a clue on how it works".

i don't think it's harmful in any way, we all know old folks to be grumpy :P

d3v1150m471c
March 31st, 2011, 08:54 PM
^duplicate post, sorry

ctrlmd
March 31st, 2011, 09:01 PM
hmmmm that was interesting
a linux user hate linux user for using linux rofl

and yeah i saw a lot in forums and in real life people who laugh at me because i use ubuntu not arch nor fedora or opensuse
calling ubuntu noob distro

oracle2b
March 31st, 2011, 09:10 PM
As a distro hopper, Ubuntu rightly has a place in top Linux distro's. I think most haters are pissed that Ubuntu usually gets first class support from application developers.

cafejunkie
March 31st, 2011, 09:10 PM
IMO Some people can't feel complete unless they have something to whine about. :))

Too true!


i hear numerous claims, one being, they don't contribute anything, or try this, this is how i learned.

I hear the "they don't contribute anything" quite a bit about Canonical and Ubuntu but it is largely untrue now (maybe it was in the first days of Ubuntu). Sure, maybe Ubuntu doesn't directly contribute but what Ubuntu does makes it's upstream. I use some Ubuntu patches in my arch installs (mostly font stuff).


hmmmm that was interesting
a linux user hate linux user for using linux rofl

Unfortunately, that happens all the time in the Linux and hacker community. It's pointless lol.

clanky
March 31st, 2011, 09:18 PM
I think part of the reason is that a lot of old school Linux users don't like the way that most Linux distros seem to be trying more and more to mimic Windows / OSX and they see ubuntu as leading the way in that.

Another part of the reason is that many of the more intellectually challenged type of Linux users tend to use ubuntu, you only have to look around here for examples of "Hurr Duur, M$ *******" to see that, and because of this all ubuntu users tend to get tarred with the same brush.

inobe
March 31st, 2011, 10:57 PM
I hear the "they don't contribute anything" quite a bit about Canonical and Ubuntu but it is largely untrue now (maybe it was in the first days of Ubuntu). Sure, maybe Ubuntu doesn't directly contribute but what Ubuntu does makes it's upstream.

in reality, they are barking for nothing, it's a meaningless bark.

anyone can take, fork it, give it a glossy GUI or CLI, whatever....

none of it pertains to them, so obviously, they are old, like those folks in retirement homes barking about how cold the gelatin was, and their tooth is sensitive, next thing they line up in the cafeteria with pitch forks and torches :P

TeoBigusGeekus
March 31st, 2011, 11:02 PM
Relevant. (http://ubuntard.com/)

wormyblackburny
March 31st, 2011, 11:11 PM
It is just elitism. I generally find there are more obnoxious Mac-lovers out there spewing their hatred than there are Linux users hating on each other.

wolfen69
March 31st, 2011, 11:38 PM
Relevant. (http://ubuntard.com/)

http://www.monkeyboobies.com/gallery/d/801-1/FacePalm.jpg

oldos2er
March 31st, 2011, 11:48 PM
Have you gotten any hate for using Ubuntu from the hacker community?

I've seen the word "Ubuntards" here and there, as well as the sig "Ubuntu is an African word meaning Slackware is too hard for me," which was in alt.linux.slackware (not surprisingly, I guess). I think it's a mixture of sour grapes and elitism, when I think of it at all.

XubuRoxMySox
April 1st, 2011, 12:05 AM
It's snobbery. But my take on it is this:

Alot of really smart super-geeks worked really really hard for years to make Linux easy enough for simple non-geeky kids like me to use... and now they're complaining that "too many non-geeky kids are using Linux"?? Um, what did you think would happen? Was it not your intention to bring Linux to us ordinary folk?

Ubuntu was among the first to bring the awesomeness of mighty Debian Linux to us "little people." That alone has been a great benefit to Debian and to Linux in general. Perhaps the super-geeks are victims of their own success!

Oh well... too late now. Buy Elitists still have their own super-geeky distros they can brag about.

-Robin

inobe
April 1st, 2011, 12:18 AM
just use their own slogans against them too...

"use what works for you" and include -i will continue to do the same.


they should go away.

youbuntu
April 1st, 2011, 12:25 AM
Having now discovered Debian "Squeeze", I am sticking with it, but I shall be installing 11.04 on a test box to see what's new. I don't see how it is even possible to "hate" a distribution of GNU/Linux - it is not a sentient being, just a snapshot of software evolution.

Wars are for idiots - especially OS wars. Nothing good can come from war, or from hate. Simple. Keep open-minded, and rotate your OS frequently to see what's new. I prefer longer term, stabler releases such as Debian etc, but that makes Ubuntu no less valid, right?

3Miro
April 1st, 2011, 12:45 AM
Currently Ubuntu is the only distribution that has a chance of becoming a mainstream OS. Ubuntu can do that, because in many ways Ubuntu is different. Now, different is both good and bad, depending on where you stand.

When I just wanted to use Linux for work without spending too much time thinking about it, Ubuntu was great. Eventually I got the ambition to not just use but also learn. I use Gentoo now and I don't see going to Ubuntu anytime soon. If you know what you are doing and you are willing to spend some time, Gentoo and Arch (and others) are better ... however, people mainstream users don't want to learn or care to spend time.

I really want Ubuntu to become mainstream. Ubuntu uses the Linux kernel, the more popular Ubuntu becomes, more and more companies develop drivers that can be used on any Linux distribution. My dream is to see big gaming developers make games for Xorg (or Wayland), so I can play them without wine. That is why I help on Ubuntu forums, I have Ubuntu in Virtual Box for reference when I try to help and I am currently downloading 11.04 beta to learn enough Unity to be able to help.

As for Canonical not providing, guess which fonts I use under Gentoo. Ubuntu fonts beat Liberation and they are available to anyone.

I got "hate" once, a Fedora user laughed at me for using the "wrong" Linux distro. I don't think he will laugh now if I show him Gentoo (although I am sure he would have something bad to say about it).

youbuntu
April 1st, 2011, 01:06 AM
Mainstream != best/better, as I am sure you already deduced.

Johnsie
April 1st, 2011, 01:11 AM
There will always be people who hate something that is popular.


I guess one reason for Ubuntu hating is that Ubuntu is just a layer to Debian. The Debian folk do alot of work and Ubuntu gets the credit.

It's very difficult for the other distros to compete if Ubuntu is getting all the attention.

I think Ubuntu will get alot more hate if Unity becomes default, it might even lose its status as the most pupular Linux distro if people switch to Fedora or Suse.

RiceMonster
April 1st, 2011, 01:14 AM
It's snobbery. But my take on it is this:

Alot of really smart super-geeks worked really really hard for years to make Linux easy enough for simple non-geeky kids like me to use... and now they're complaining that "too many non-geeky kids are using Linux"?? Um, what did you think would happen? Was it not your intention to bring Linux to us ordinary folk?

Ubuntu was among the first to bring the awesomeness of mighty Debian Linux to us "little people." That alone has been a great benefit to Debian and to Linux in general. Perhaps the super-geeks are victims of their own success!

Oh well... too late now. Buy Elitists still have their own super-geeky distros they can brag about.

-Robin

What makes you sure all the people with that attitude are developers and not just users?

matt_symes
April 1st, 2011, 01:15 AM
It's snobbery. But my take on it is this:

Alot of really smart super-geeks worked really really hard for years to make Linux easy enough for simple non-geeky kids like me to use... and now they're complaining that "too many non-geeky kids are using Linux"?? Um, what did you think would happen? Was it not your intention to bring Linux to us ordinary folk?

Ubuntu was among the first to bring the awesomeness of mighty Debian Linux to us "little people." That alone has been a great benefit to Debian and to Linux in general. Perhaps the super-geeks are victims of their own success!

Oh well... too late now. Buy Elitists still have their own super-geeky distros they can brag about.

-Robin

That's not the developers.

@RiceMonster. Guess we had the same thought in the same minute.

youbuntu
April 1st, 2011, 01:15 AM
I have yet to try unity, suffice to say I can't understand why it's there... but that is probably something I'll play with, once the RC comes out.

3Miro
April 1st, 2011, 01:20 AM
I think Ubuntu will get alot more hate if Unity becomes default, it might even lose its status as the most pupular Linux distro if people switch to Fedora or Suse.

Most noobs will have hard time figuring out Fedora or Suse. Ubuntu targets users of Windows and Mac, not people that are already using Linux. The whole point of Unity is to make it as accessible as possible to MS and Apple clients.

msandoy
April 1st, 2011, 02:14 AM
What is the problem with those narrow minded old timers?
I have totally switched from windows to Linux, I use a variety of distros, but I always fall back on Ubuntu for ease of use. I have to keep up to date on Ubuntu, since I have converted a few people from Windows to Ubuntu, including my wife. Non of those people have any skills what so ever when it comes to computers. I'm doing all the support, witch mainly comes down to upgrading to next distro. More and more people out there are learning Linux because of Ubuntu, and hopefully Linux can one day have an actual market share on the computer desktop.
Personally, I do not care witch one of the distros become the most popular, as long as we can be a realistic alternative to Windows and MacOS.

Hur Dur
April 1st, 2011, 02:18 AM
What is the problem with those narrow minded old timers?
I have totally switched from windows to Linux, I use a variety of distros, but I always fall back on Ubuntu for ease of use. I have to keep up to date on Ubuntu, since I have converted a few people from Windows to Ubuntu, including my wife. Non of those people have any skills what so ever when it comes to computers. I'm doing all the support, witch mainly comes down to upgrading to next distro. More and more people out there are learning Linux because of Ubuntu, and hopefully Linux can one day have an actual market share on the computer desktop.
Personally, I do not care witch one of the distros become the most popular, as long as we can be a realistic alternative to Windows and MacOS.

In my opinion, an OS or distro should not strive to be an alternative to another OS. It should be something unique that fits into a certain market, not just an OS for those who are sick of shelling out $100 every 5 years for Windows. That is my main criticism of Ubuntu, it tries to be an alternative rather than something that would appeal to veteran GNU/Linux users.

youbuntu
April 1st, 2011, 02:29 AM
In my opinion, an OS or distro should not strive to be an alternative to another OS. It should be something unique that fits into a certain market, not just an OS for those who are sick of shelling out $100 every 5 years for Windows. That is my main criticism of Ubuntu, it tries to be an alternative rather than something that would appeal to veteran GNU/Linux users.

I hate to break it to you, but the whole point is that it's an alternative!

3Miro
April 1st, 2011, 02:32 AM
In my opinion, an OS or distro should not strive to be an alternative to another OS. It should be something unique that fits into a certain market, not just an OS for those who are sick of shelling out $100 every 5 years for Windows. That is my main criticism of Ubuntu, it tries to be an alternative rather than something that would appeal to veteran GNU/Linux users.

Users for:
Windows: tons
GNU/Linux: not that many (even fewer veterans)

Alternatives to:
GNU/Linux distributions: more than you can count
Windows: none (maybe OSX, but it costs a lot)

Benefits for us if Ubuntu succeeds:
Against other GNU/Linux: small (another good distro, perhaps with some new interesting technology)
Against Windows: huge (drivers, games, other software, end of compatibility issues)

I think providing a windows "alternative" is the right way to go (for Ubuntu), there are plenty of other distributions for the rest of us. When I take the extra step to come to the forum to help people, I don't do it for them, I do it for myself.

wolfen69
April 1st, 2011, 02:32 AM
If you know what you are doing and you are willing to spend some time, Gentoo and Arch (and others) are better ...

Well, saying something is better is a slippery slope at best. I'm far from a noob and I can pretty much do anything I want in linux if I take the time, but to me, Ubuntu is better. Plus, you have to define what better really means. It is merely a personal viewpoint and nothing more.

But isn't it great that we linux enthusiasts have so many choices and can civilly talk about these things?

I think the bottom line is, there is no better, just what's best for you.

Peace.

youbuntu
April 1st, 2011, 02:39 AM
Your current "thing" is always better than your last current "thing"... until the next, better current "thing" comes along and replaces everything before it. Henceforth, you'd probably forget about what came before the present "thing".

3Miro
April 1st, 2011, 02:48 AM
Well, saying something is better is a slippery slope at best. I'm far from a noob and I can pretty much do anything I want in linux if I take the time, but to me, Ubuntu is better. Plus, you have to define what better really means. It is merely a personal viewpoint and nothing more.

But isn't it great that we linux enthusiasts have so many choices and can civilly talk about these things?

I think the bottom line is, there is no better, just what's best for you.

Peace.

I define better as faster, more stable and more secure. This doesn't mean that Ubuntu is not doing fine enough in those categories, it is just that you can do more. The only other criteria that I could think of is that of how much effort it takes to set and maintain a system, hence the first part of the statement: "if you know what you are doing AND you are willing to spend the time" (the last category includes: "I don't feel like it", "I can't be bothered", "I am too lazy", "I have more important work to do"...) If you don't know enough Linux, that is fine. If you don't feel like messing with Gentoo and Arch, this is just fine with me.

So yes, I do define "better" as being conditional, even though it probably wasn't 100% clear from my statement. I definitely did not intend any offense to anyone.

Peace.

3Miro
April 1st, 2011, 02:50 AM
Your current "thing" is always better than your last current "thing"... until the next, better current "thing" comes along and replaces everything before it. Henceforth, you'd probably forget about what came before the present "thing".

That's right, but at given point of time, the current "thing" is the best "thing" (otherwise it wouldn't be the current "thing").

Simian Man
April 1st, 2011, 03:03 AM
Ubuntu is alright, but is incredibly overhyped, which creates tension. It's more the fault of some of the more...enthusiastic fans than Ubuntu itself.


...


...

Were all the banned members unbanned for April Fool's Day or something???

wolfen69
April 1st, 2011, 03:18 AM
I define better as faster, more stable and more secure.

I can't say anything about more secure, as all linux's seem very secure. But to me, Ubuntu is faster and more stable than others. Otherwise I'd be using something else. But I understand we all have different experiences with the same thing. There are many factors that go into having a "good experience".

3Miro
April 1st, 2011, 03:36 AM
I can't say anything about more secure, as all linux's seem very secure. But to me, Ubuntu is faster and more stable than others. Otherwise I'd be using something else. But I understand we all have different experiences with the same thing. There are many factors that go into having a "good experience".

I wouldn't call myself expert on security, in fact I am pretty sure my Gentoo build is less secure than a default Ubuntu, however, speed is different. With Gentoo I can definitely get a boost in benchmarks (benchmark software and real applications) as well as lower RAM usage.

Stability is iffy as you need some practice to get things where they need to be, I had to reinstall Gentoo several times before I can get it to a stable enough level.

When you say Ubuntu is faster for you, which other distributions did you compare it to?

youbuntu
April 1st, 2011, 03:37 AM
Ubuntu is alright, but is incredibly overhyped, which creates tension. It's more the fault of some of the more...enthusiastic fans than Ubuntu itself.





Were all the banned members unbanned for April Fool's Day or something???

Nope. I apologised, and meant it :)

I'm flattered you're pleased to see me, cheeky monkey! :P ;)

wolfen69
April 1st, 2011, 03:45 AM
Ubuntu is alright, but is incredibly overhyped, which creates tension. It's more the fault of some of the more...enthusiastic fans than Ubuntu itself.
I think it's statements like that, that creates tension in the forums.


Were all the banned members unbanned for April Fool's Day or something???
Much to your dismay I take it? That's between the members in question, and the forum administration. Have a nice day Simian Man.

inobe
April 1st, 2011, 03:51 AM
What is the problem with those narrow minded old timers?


we can't blame them for wanting to hog linux all to themselves, it's gold!

they are like WHOA slow down, you skipped the madness and mayhem part.

they want us to understand what's beneath the hood before we test drive it, get an understanding, ncursers and CLI, they want us to see hundreds preference settings and config files, tinker with nano, compile kernel modules, build a few .rpm's with fierce vengeance, spend countless hours at first getting a hands on experience.

all this to essentially give you what you have now with a lot of effort.

what good it would do? maybe they think you will continue in their foot steps, or contribute lines of code to the linux kernel at epic proportions, maybe, but i consider it as being concerned, caring, innocent.

okay, okay, just ignore this post :lol:

Simian Man
April 1st, 2011, 03:56 AM
Much to your dismay I take it?
Of course not :).


That's between the members in question, and the forum administration.
No, it was just strange to see 2 banned members return seemingly at once.

wojox
April 1st, 2011, 04:01 AM
No, it was just strange to see 2 banned members return seemingly at once.

Something is definitely up. All the mods names and avatars are missing.

inobe
April 1st, 2011, 04:04 AM
some sort of serious april fools prank?

youbuntu
April 1st, 2011, 04:04 AM
Back where we were, anyhow, I don't see any reason to "hate" a distro. That is entirely counter-productive and illogical. I use many of them, testing to see what fits me, year to year.

Irihapeti
April 1st, 2011, 04:04 AM
Something is definitely up. All the mods names and avatars are missing.

It's their way of saying farewell to KiwiNZ as admin, perhaps... :)

wojox
April 1st, 2011, 04:05 AM
Back where we were, anyhow, I don't see any reason to "hate" a distro. That is entirely counter-productive and illogical. I use many of them, testing to see what fits me, year to year.

You do a great glossy impression.

youbuntu
April 1st, 2011, 04:07 AM
You do a great glossy impression.

Probably because I am glossywhite. I could rant and get banned to prove it... but I wouldn't do that just to prove a point. :p

Irihapeti
April 1st, 2011, 04:09 AM
I think all the mods' names have been changed to white type.

Not glossy, though. :lolflag:

wojox
April 1st, 2011, 04:10 AM
Probably because I am glossywhite. I could rant and get banned to prove it... but I wouldn't do that just to prove a point. :p

Cutting off your nose to spite your face. No not you glossy. :P

youbuntu
April 1st, 2011, 04:12 AM
Cutting off your nose to spite your face. No not you glossy. :P

All I can say is... it's between the mod in question and myself, why I got unbanned.

http://www.guitarsandaudio.com/extras/shite/back_on_topic.jpg

slackthumbz
April 1st, 2011, 11:51 AM
tinker with nano

What is this blasphemy? Config files should be edited in vi!, system services should be managed by directly calling /etc/init.d scripts and everyone should compile their own kernel at least once!

</tongue-in-cheek>

:D

XubuRoxMySox
April 1st, 2011, 12:00 PM
What makes you sure all the people with that attitude are developers and not just users?

Did I say they were? I didn't mean to say that or even imply it. I apologize if I did, somehow.

-Robin

3Miro
April 1st, 2011, 12:06 PM
What is this blasphemy? Config files should be edited in vi!, system services should be managed by directly calling /etc/init.d scripts and everyone should compile their own kernel at least once!

</tongue-in-cheek>

:D

When I edit config files, I use the real text editor. I use the text editor that Linus Torvalds himself uses ... pico.

There was an old talk with him where he said that he uses pico. I thought it was pretty funny.

As for the kernel compilations, I do use Gentoo.

Spice Weasel
April 1st, 2011, 12:36 PM
When I edit config files, I use the real text editor. I use the text editor that Linus Torvalds himself uses ... pico.

There was an old talk with him where he said that he uses pico. I thought it was pretty funny.

As for the kernel compilations, I do use Gentoo.

Saint Linus uses a customized version of MicroEMACS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroEMACS) (sometimesk known as mg). :)

3Miro
April 1st, 2011, 01:09 PM
Saint Linus uses a customized version of MicroEMACS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroEMACS) (sometimesk known as mg). :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVTWCPoUt8w

It around minute 54:00, although it may no longer be relevant as it is an old video.

red_Marvin
April 1st, 2011, 06:18 PM
I think that part of the antagonism against the "easy" distros
may be because that Linux is part of the open source ecosystem
which is, basically, maintained and developed by the same
people who use it. By making it easier to use, it will attract
users that are not that computer literate, and so linux will
be maintained by less computer literate people.

This is of course not the whole truth, computer illiterate
people can learn and become valued developers, whe all have
to start somewhere. However far from everybody have that
interest, dedication and predisposition. So in the act of
becoming popular, linux will move from being targeted at
mostly developer-users and superusers to a user-group that
e.g. do not give a Rattus Norvegicus's Gluteus Maximus for
the command line interface, no matter how powerful, because
it is not shiny enough, a mindset detested by the "older"
users who value function over form.

Simian Man
April 1st, 2011, 06:53 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVTWCPoUt8w

It around minute 54:00, although it may no longer be relevant as it is an old video.

Yeah, he said he uses MicroEMACS, and pine, which is a mail reader, not a text editor. So Spice Weasel is right.

3Miro
April 1st, 2011, 07:34 PM
Yeah, he said he uses MicroEMACS, and pine, which is a mail reader, not a text editor. So Spice Weasel is right.

I must have misunderstood him. I thought he was making a joke about MicorEMACS to get the reaction from the people. Pico is pine composer that has most of the shortcuts of emacs an is overall very friendly editor.

cafejunkie
April 1st, 2011, 07:36 PM
I think that part of the antagonism against the "easy" distros
may be because that Linux is part of the open source ecosystem
which is, basically, maintained and developed by the same
people who use it. By making it easier to use, it will attract
users that are not that computer literate, and so linux will
be maintained by less computer literate people.

This is of course not the whole truth, computer illiterate
people can learn and become valued developers, whe all have
to start somewhere. However far from everybody have that
interest, dedication and predisposition. So in the act of
becoming popular, linux will move from being targeted at
mostly developer-users and superusers to a user-group that
e.g. do not give a Rattus Norvegicus's Gluteus Maximus for
the command line interface, no matter how powerful, because
it is not shiny enough, a mindset detested by the "older"
users who value function over form.

I can understand that mentality to some extent as I myself value function over form (and I don't care about desktop effects/compiz, games, 3D and all that shiny nonsense!). I am also an active contributer to Arch Linux and a few Ubuntu packages (I am even working on my own distro, the journey every linux hacker must take at some point in their life). But, at the same time I do not choose to hate Ubuntu users or any of the user friendly distros. In fact, I use Ubuntu myself a lot. Sure, I may prefer Arch, and sometimes Gentoo (until it gets to be too much drama, as usual) but when I need a system up and running quickly you bet I'm popping in an Ubuntu CD.
Now, the day Ubuntu doesn't let me open a file because I don't have the application installed (i.e. Mac OS X) is the day I become a hater :)
I guess what I'm trying to say to fellow old-timers here, and anywhere is there will always be "our" distros. There will always be a distro without the bling bling that is "user friendliness". So, why hate on the users of distros that don't meet your (our?) standards of what we think Linux should be. Isn't the overall goal to show that proprietary operating systems just aren't necessary? The Linux kernel was created as a free port of UNIX (specifically minix) to 386 platforms. Just as FreeBSD is a port of the original BSD to 386. Whether or not someone choose to use a "user friendly" distro like Ubuntu or chooses to build a 100% unique system with Gentoo should not determine your opinion of that user. We are all users of Linux, we all value F/LOSS.
Besides, spend less time telling the "n00bs" to go back to Windows and more time actually helping them and they can become some good testers :)

koenn
April 1st, 2011, 07:42 PM
I think that part of the antagonism against the "easy" distros
may be because that Linux is part of the open source ecosystem
which is, basically, maintained and developed by the same
people who use it. By making it easier to use, it will attract
users that are not that computer literate, and so linux will
be maintained by less computer literate people.

This is of course not the whole truth, computer illiterate
people can learn and become valued developers, whe all have
to start somewhere. However far from everybody have that
interest, dedication and predisposition. So in the act of
becoming popular, linux will move from being targeted at
mostly developer-users and superusers to a user-group that
e.g. do not give a Rattus Norvegicus's Gluteus Maximus for
the command line interface, no matter how powerful, because
it is not shiny enough, a mindset detested by the "older"
users who value function over form.

I think that's mostly it, except that tour conclusion that "... linux will
be maintained by less computer literate people" is wrong.
The less computer literate will not maintain linux. Although open source projects are "open", not everyone is allowed in. You need to show the required skills and right attitude first.

In stead of ecosystem, try culture.
The immense popularity of, say, ubuntu, opens a road for people who don't fit into the culture of the "older" linux community and other OS projects. I think it's somewhat like seeing the fun little town where you live suddenly being swamped by hordes of tourists who behave as if they own the place, ruin the atmosphere in all your favorite hang-out places with their noisy children, insult the locals, and complain that the local Italian restaurant doesn't serve fries and hamburgers.

cafejunkie
April 1st, 2011, 07:54 PM
I think it's somewhat like seeing the fun little town where you live suddenly being swamped by hordes of tourists who behave as if they own the place, ruin the atmosphere in all your favorite hang-out places with their noisy children, insult the locals, and complain that the local Italian restaurant doesn't serve fries and hamburgers.

Best analogy to the situation ever. I bow down to you my friend.

At the same time, I'm the type of person who happily smiles at those tourists and help them out despite being a life long resident.

lucazade
April 1st, 2011, 07:55 PM
I think that's mostly it, except that tour conclusion that "... linux will
be maintained by less computer literate people" is wrong.
The less computer literate will not maintain linux. Although open source projects are "open", not everyone is allowed in. You need to show the required skills and right attitude first.

In stead of ecosystem, try culture.
The immense popularity of, say, ubuntu, opens a road for people who don't fit into the culture of the "older" linux community and other OS projects. I think it's somewhat like seeing the fun little town where you live suddenly being swamped by hordes of tourists who behave as if they own the place, ruin the atmosphere in all your favorite hang-out places with their noisy children, insult the locals, and complain that the local Italian restaurant doesn't serve fries and hamburgers.

Italian restaurant doesn't serve fries and hamburgers for policy :)

About "The immense popularity of, say, ubuntu, opens a road for people who don't fit into the culture of the "older" linux community" I would change it into:
The immense popularity of Ubuntu raise the fear of old school gurus about their favorite distro being abandoned and no more considered.

wolfen69
April 1st, 2011, 07:55 PM
The immense popularity of, say, ubuntu, opens a road for people who don't fit into the culture of the "older" linux community and other OS projects. I think it's somewhat like seeing the fun little town where you live suddenly being swamped by hordes of tourists who behave as if they own the place, ruin the atmosphere in all your favorite hang-out places with their noisy children, insult the locals, and complain that the local Italian restaurant doesn't serve fries and hamburgers.

That's a good analogy.

cafejunkie
April 1st, 2011, 07:59 PM
The immense popularity of Ubuntu raise the fear of old school gurus about their favorite distro being abandoned and no more considered.

Well, that fear shouldn't really cause them to hate on the Ubuntu users though. I mean, the overwhelming majority of Ubuntu users are n00bs to Linux in general and will more than likely never leave Ubuntu. Ubuntu isn't really "stealing" any users/devs away from (insert your favorite distro here) distro, rather it's "stealing" curious and frustrated windows users away from windows.

walt.smith1960
April 1st, 2011, 08:40 PM
Well, that fear shouldn't really cause them to hate on the Ubuntu users though. I mean, the overwhelming majority of Ubuntu users are n00bs to Linux in general and will more than likely never leave Ubuntu. Ubuntu isn't really "stealing" any users/devs away from (insert your favorite distro here) distro, rather it's "stealing" curious and frustrated windows users away from windows.

I resemble that remark:lolflag: It's a balancing act for the sponsors of Ubuntu, Federa, openSUSE etc. If they don't have a reasonable user base, hardware support that is none to broad or deep now is going to become even less available. Can Nvidia or AMD be expected to pay people to develop software for 36 users? Yet having too many of the "tourists" that koenn refers to makes for a pretty unattractive place.

galacticaboy
April 1st, 2011, 08:49 PM
No, but I got hate from an obnoxious Gentoo user/Google Project Manager once. Interesting, given that Google (at the time at least) uses Debian for their server infrastructure...


You want hate? Try out the Linux Mint forums, holy crap, they are one hatred bunch. Made me hate that distro so much. I eventually switched.

el_koraco
April 1st, 2011, 09:09 PM
Ubuntu isn't really "stealing" any users/devs away from (insert your favorite distro here) distro, rather it's "stealing" curious and frustrated windows users away from windows.

actually, i vaguely remember seeing some figures about ubuntu making the biggest strides to its user base among the existing linux users, and much less so among users of other OS's. don't have the figures with me, i'll try to dig them up.

youbuntu
April 1st, 2011, 09:16 PM
You want hate? Try out the Linux Mint forums, holy crap, they are one hatred bunch. Made me hate that distro so much. I eventually switched.

Is this not bashing? I'm sure that's not recommended in here. Just some advice.

PatrickMoore
April 1st, 2011, 09:55 PM
I see an operating system as a tool. I still use windows for specific tasks that I either cannot do in Linux (Firmware updates on phones, watching netflix)
or just prefer to do in windows (managing my iPod)
I have used quite a few different flavors of Linux and have consistently come back to Ubuntu. mainly because it is what I am comfortable with for a stable OS. I am still attracted by the minimalist nature of other systems mainly Arch. But I would never look at someone negatively for preferring a specific OS. Nor do I evangelize Linux. It is not for everyone, there is alot of work if you want to have a system that is custom fit to your needs. that being said. I have still turned people on to Linux by installing Mint on a trashed computer for them. My girlfriend will not budge from mint even when I offered to upgrade her Toshiba laptop to windows 7.
In the end what difference does it make whether we use Ubuntu, Slackware, Gentoo, Arch etc. We all have different needs for our equipment. And in my opinion just that fact that we use a system that for the most part is community supported deserves props of the mad sort.

XubuRoxMySox
April 2nd, 2011, 12:05 AM
You want hate? Try out the Linux Mint forums, holy crap, they are one hatred bunch. Made me hate that distro so much. I eventually switched.

Really?! That must have been a long time ago. I've been reading very complimentary posts about the new Ubuntu Beta release and stuff. Some jerk started a thread a couple of weeks agoabout Mark Shuttleworth being "an idiot" and abuncha Mint users jumped all over it in Mr. Shuttleworth's defense.

While the next Xfce edition is going to be Debian based and LMDE is taking off really well, Mint continues to be built on the Ubuntu foundation and the Mint community, with very few exceptions, is very pro-Ubuntu.

Yeah there are the occasional remarks about Mint being "Ubuntu done right" just as there are here in these forums about Ubuntu being "Debian done right." That's just good natured jabbing.

Hate? I just don't see it. Alot of us visit both forums regularly and feel welcome in both communities regardless of whether we use one of the 'buntus or one of the Mint editions.

-Robin
Linux Mint 9 Xfce,
Xubuntu 10.04 LTS
Crunchbang Statler Xfce

jennybrew
April 2nd, 2011, 01:30 AM
Why would anyone "hate" an operating system?
Im always amazed when people, who usually have no idea what they are rattling on about, criticise other people's work so vehemently.
Ubuntu seems to come for its fair share of criticism and Windows seems to get all sorts of hatred thrown at it.

Why? Both are examples of magnificent applied technology and should be respected, not hated.

Gosh

youbuntu
April 2nd, 2011, 01:58 AM
Why would anyone "hate" an operating system?
Im always amazed when people, who usually have no idea what they are rattling on about, criticise other people's work so vehemently.
Ubuntu seems to come for its fair share of criticism and Windows seems to get all sorts of hatred thrown at it.

Why? Both are examples of magnificent applied technology and should be respected, not hated.

Gosh

This.thatComment()

inobe
April 2nd, 2011, 03:29 AM
the answers are in many of the posts, have a look :P

andrew.46
April 3rd, 2011, 12:20 PM
I've seen the word "Ubuntards" here and there, as well as the sig "Ubuntu is an African word meaning Slackware is too hard for me," which was in alt.linux.slackware (not surprisingly, I guess). I think it's a mixture of sour grapes and elitism, when I think of it at all.

I see you have come across DanC :)

Andrew

cgroza
April 3rd, 2011, 12:23 PM
IMO Some people can't feel complete unless they have something to whine about. :))
+1 to that!

MisterGaribaldi
April 3rd, 2011, 02:59 PM
This reminds me of a pearl of wisdom I read once:

Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.

There's just some people with nothing better to do. I use the best tool or tools for the job. In some cases, that's Linux, in others it's Mac OS X, in others Windows, and others still, iOS.

People need to grow up.

Darth Penguin
April 3rd, 2011, 04:43 PM
Ubuntu haters? You can't be a player and have no haters. As for me I love Ubuntu.

edit

And it's not like you can't have your cake and eat it too. Seems like the haters don't know what dual booting is.

MooPi
April 3rd, 2011, 04:48 PM
In my humble world Linux is still a big question and a blank stare when I mention it. I rarely get a spark of recognition and when I do it is generally accepted that I'm some sort of hacker if I use Linux. Mentioning Ubuntu gets me the same exact stare :(
But my answer to the haters is to just act as stupid as they give us credit for, just to mess with them. If they have nothing better to complain about I guess their lives are really shallow and not worth getting into a discussion with.
If it's like talking with this Mac fanboy I joust with on occasion then it's actually fun to mess with haters.:)

Darth Penguin
April 3rd, 2011, 05:05 PM
Yeah well, with the majority of people using a zombie PC because they installed a cracked version of Windows XP and with the end of XP's life cycle underway, I'd like to see the MS fanboys complain about having an OS to turn to when they don't want to upgrade or can't afford to upgrade their PC to run Windows 7. People act like Microsoft is going to support XP indefinitely or something and like they are going to be able to torrent their way to free Windows forever.

youbuntu
April 3rd, 2011, 05:28 PM
How is this thread still open?

http://fineartamerica.com/images-medium/flame-bait-david-april.jpg

MisterGaribaldi
April 3rd, 2011, 06:18 PM
In my humble world Linux is still a big question and a blank stare when I mention it.

Most people don't have or want a clue about anything. It's this willful ignorance which is the bane of all mankind and is what's going to get us killed one day.



I'd like to see the MS fanboys complain about having an OS to turn to when they don't want to upgrade or can't afford to upgrade their PC to run Windows 7. People act like Microsoft is going to support XP indefinitely or something and like they are going to be able to torrent their way to free Windows forever.

Really, honestly, who gives a crap? People that stupid deserve to encounter the full repercussions of their actions.

youbuntu
April 3rd, 2011, 06:28 PM
...

CharlesA
April 3rd, 2011, 06:56 PM
Thread has been going downhill since page 1. Closed.