Need an Honest Opinion

[dh04000]

I just got a signing bonus for accepting a position at a PhD program, so I have so cash I was not expecting. My fiancee thinks I should replace ole' trusty with something strong and lighter. I have a 5 year old Dell e1705 currently.

I checked out the current laptop market, and I found that the laptop's that meet my needs are between $650-$800 dollars. I originally wanted a nvidia graphics card due to thier legendary linux support, but with optimus..... looks like I can't find an nvidia laptop I can actually use. So that leaves me with Ati. I have a love-hate (mostly hate) affair with Ati. They dropped the support for my x1400 in my current laptop a year after I bought it I"m still bitter over that. And their windows and linux driver for the x1400 sucks. I still have driver issues.

What I want out of my laptop is to NOT have to dual boot anymore. I want to be able to run windows in a VM, and to run older games like tf2, and l4d in wine. I also want the flash and other video not to sputter and freeze. Also to be able to run amnesia, oil rush, and other linux games without issues. I want the JUST WORKS experience. I don't want the "it works in some situations and with the right configs" problem.

Is Ati's linux graphic driver up to snuff? Or is their driver support still hit and miss? If I bought a 5XXX or 6XXX line card would I be able get the wine support I am looking for? I heard wine was ALOT better today.

PLEASE, OH FORUMS! HEAR MY PLEA AND BESTOW UPON ME YOUR GREAT KNOWLEDGE!

[Paqman]

I originally wanted a nvidia graphics card due to thier legendary linux support, but with optimus..... looks like I can't find an nvidia laptop I can actually use. So that leaves me with Ati.

And Intel, surely? No drivers required, and you said you'll only be playing old games. Plus you're future-proofed for Wayland.

[dh04000]

And Intel, surely? No drivers required, and you said you'll only be playing old games. Plus you're future-proofed for Wayland.

Bah. Not even going to consider them.

[marin123]

i have an acer 5942g laptop with intel i5, 4 gb ram and ati mobility radeon hd 5650, and 10.10 works excellent!
i installed drivers from ati website because they are newer.
i played a couple of games always on max graphic details and never had a glitch. i played 0 ad, hive rise and open arena.
if you know some graphic demanding games on linux, let me know and i will test it :)

[dh04000]

i have an acer 5942g laptop with intel i5, 4 gb ram and ati mobility radeon hd 5650, and 10.10 works excellent!
i installed drivers from ati website because they are newer.
i played a couple of games always on max graphic details and never had a glitch. i played 0 ad, hive rise and open arena.
if you know some graphic demanding games on linux, let me know and i will test it :)

Amnesia: The Dark Decent Demo http://www.amnesiagame.com/#demo

Also The Penumbra Games Demos http://www.penumbragame.com/demo.php

Also Any Doom 3 demo, Quake Wars Demo, Rage Demo that you can find. http://idsoftware.com/

A good source of linux games, some with demo's http://www.penguspy.com/#/All/free_and_commercial/sort=1/view=1/limit=0

EDIT: TF2, or any valve made steam games tested using wine would be nice.

[GabrielYYZ]

i have a Radeon HD 5770 and the 11.2 catalyst driver works very decently. i'm not going to lie to you and tell you "oh, it's the greatest thing since sliced salami" but, in my case and for my uses, the stuff i'm not satisfied with are just minor annoyances.

YMMV though...

[dh04000]

i have a Radeon HD 5770 and the 11.2 catalyst driver works very decently. i'm not going to lie to you and tell you "oh, it's the greatest thing since sliced salami" but, in my case and for my uses, the stuff i'm not satisfied with are just minor annoyances.

YMMV though...


Is it "just works" like on a decent windows or mac install? I know the Plymouth issue, and I can live with that. Ubuntu tweak has the fix in it already. No issue. But, does the graphics just work? Can you just install a game or graphics intensive app and it "just works"? Its starts, doesn't crash, or need endless tweaking and finger crossing?

Is it up to the windows or mac installation standards, or should I stay on my ole' trusty e1705 for another year or so until things get better in Ati land?

[marin123]

in my case everything works. just works. like in windows.
i ran cod 4 directly from my win partition without installing in ubuntu. it works. no tweaking, no stuttering.

i still have to test games you want, i will let you know how it went...

[Grenage]

Bank the money, unless you really need a new machine.

Games in a VM are usually pretty poor.

[CharlesA]

Bank the money, unless you really need a new machine.

Games in a VM are usually pretty poor.
+1 to that.

[Legendary_Bibo]

Wait, I thought Nvidia was the go to people for graphics cards for Linux, or is this just because they don't plan on supporting Wayland? I think for now you should go with Nvidia because it's not like Wayland is going to replace X overnight, and it may take several years which your computer would be outdated by that time. I may be wrong though considering it's going to be in Natty.

[dh04000]

in my case everything works. just works. like in windows.
i ran cod 4 directly from my win partition without installing in ubuntu. it works. no tweaking, no stuttering.

i still have to test games you want, i will let you know how it went...


Thanks in advance. Don't test them all, just until you can come up with a conclusion. I would suggest testing the newer, more graphics intensive games first, and wine based ones.


Bank the money, unless you really need a new machine.

Games in a VM are usually pretty poor.

I wasn't suggesting that. That would be aweful! :p I'm going to use the VM to use windows only scientific software. And also watch netflix if it handles it.



Wait, I thought Nvidia was the go to people for graphics cards for Linux, or is this just because they don't plan on supporting Wayland? I think for now you should go with Nvidia because it's not like Wayland is going to replace X overnight, and it may take several years which your computer would be outdated by that time. I may be wrong though considering it's going to be in Natty.

The new nvidia laptops uses a technology called optimus, which nvidia has no current plans to support in linux. Linux will not even boot due to optimus.

[Legendary_Bibo]

Thanks in advance. Don't test them all, just until you can come up with a conclusion. I would suggest testing the newer, more graphics intensive games first, and wine based ones.



I wasn't suggesting that. That would be aweful! :p I'm going to use the VM to use windows only scientific software. And also watch netflix if it handles it.

Windows XP + 2gb of RAM + 1 dedicated processor + VirtualBox = All you need to watch Netflix.

[dh04000]

Windows XP + 2gb of RAM + 1 dedicated processor + VirtualBox = All you need to watch Netflix.

Really? Sweet, no more dual booting to watch netflix.

[SeijiSensei]

The new nvidia laptops uses a technology called optimus, which nvidia has no current plans to support in linux. Linux will not even boot due to optimus.

That doesn't appear entirely correct, at least for this ASUS model.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1677780

[AndyCinDallas]

You could check out Dell's line of refurbished laptops, too - I just got a late 2010 model (Inspiron M5030 - dual-core AMD and ATI Gfx 3Gb ram + 320Gb drive + full warranty) for $370

http://www.dell.com/outlet

[dh04000]

That doesn't appear entirely correct, at least for this ASUS model.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1677780

Some hardware makers used to wire the nvidia gpu to the intel gpu and the motherboard. So one could use intel only, nvidia only, or noth via optimus. Newer optimus models "require" and only allow the nvidia card to be passed through the intel gpu via optimus, and will not run off the nvidia prop. driver.

So, your screwed if you buy a new optimus laptop.

[Legendary_Bibo]

Really? Sweet, no more dual booting to watch netflix.

Well I mean you have to dedicate 2gb of RAM and a processor to WinXP in virtual box. You can do it with 1gb of RAM but for me it makes videos stutter. I also give it 128mb of Video memory which is half of my video memory.

[dh04000]

So...... I think I found an nvdia without optimus. AS5742G-6480

The Nvidia 540M is optimus capable, but it seems that acer opt'ed not to use it.

I know I have someone testing an Ati card for me, but can someone else confirm that this laptop doesn't use optimus? I have tried every combination in google and have not gotten a single hit, but acer doesn't have a customer support line. So, I can't call to confirm.

[3Miro]

One year ago I got a good ATI, hoping the drivers were up-to-date. In less than a month, I was back to Nvidia. On the other hand, for the past 3 months, I have been usnig an ATI on my desktop at work and the FOSS driver works without any glitches. If it is for work (type/edit/browse) and occasional VBox, then ATI is fine. I don't know about wine, I still only use wine+Nvidia, the ATI drivers may need some more time to get there (I have not tested it recently).

[dh04000]

So...... I think I found an nvdia without optimus. AS5742G-6480

The Nvidia 540M is optimus capable, but it seems that acer opt'ed not to use it.

I know I have someone testing an Ati card for me, but can someone else confirm that this laptop doesn't use optimus? I have tried every combination in google and have not gotten a single hit, but acer doesn't have a customer support line. So, I can't call to confirm.

So, I found one review that says it uses optimus. I don't know. I really want a nvidia, becuase I'm still afraid of Ati. How's the Ati testing going?

[marin123]

i played amnesia, and it works.

i installed counter strike 1.6 (i know its old but i dont have anything newer) in wine and works with best graphic settings.

i will try penumbra tomorrow and let you know...

[SeijiSensei]

How about video playback of H.264-encoded content? That's where the VDPAU option shines, especially for 720p and 1080p videos.

Of course, if you have a processor that's fast enough, you don't need to use the graphics chip to decode the video stream.

[Legendary_Bibo]

I'm disturbed by ATI cards. I have an old 8 year old Dell Dimension 4600 and it has an Nvidia GeForce 440 MX, or whatever and when I use all the eye candy I use on my ATI laptop (which has a substantially better graphics card) the old computer tends to do the animations and whatnot much smoother while the animations on my ATI laptop get choppy.

[dh04000]

i played amnesia, and it works.

i installed counter strike 1.6 (i know its old but i dont have anything newer) in wine and works with best graphic settings.

i will try penumbra tomorrow and let you know...

Sounds good. Just let me know! :)

[dh04000]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834215037

This is a ACER with a AMD Phenon II X4 and a Ati 6550M. Would be this supported with linux drivers and would have 100% wine support?

Anyone know. Oh, and if you can this with card with a i3 or i5, it would be preferred.

Tell me what you guys think.

[3Miro]

My guess is that ATI is still not good enough for wine. Maybe in another year.

I don't have a 6xxx, I only have a 4xxx, but I will try a wine game tomorrow to see if it works well.

[Rasa1111]

If you want something that "just works", and will last forever..
Get a ThinkPad.

[dh04000]

My guess is that ATI is still not good enough for wine. Maybe in another year.

I don't have a 6xxx, I only have a 4xxx, but I will try a wine game tomorrow to see if it works well.


Thank you,
I'll be sure to check back here to see how your test went.

[fela]

If you want something that "just works", and will last forever..
Get a ThinkPad.

+1.

Although, the one we had had a design fault with the power cable and a rubbish battery.

+1 though anyway. Thinkpads are awesome.

[Rasa1111]

+1.

Although, the one we had had a design fault with the power cable and a rubbish battery.

+1 though anyway. Thinkpads are awesome.

:)
Yeah, there's always room for faulty things in this 'business'..
I must say though, my 2 ThinkPads, (one 13 years old, one 5 years old) are still going strong. lol

My 5 year old thinkpad (Z6it), outperforms any other laptop i know.
Even those bought a month or two ago. lol :)

Best computer Ive ever owned. <3

[LowSky]

Another +1 for thinkpad.

The new Edge series puts a nice little spin on style to those who think the rest of the line is boring.

Personally I would pick up a T or X series laptop. And get the 6 cell battery, its worth it.

[beew]

OP wants a Nvidia card, is there any thinkpad model that comes with a Nvidia card without Optimus? The only ones I found that may fit the bill are some high end laptops ($$$) that come with Nvidia Quadro cards. If I am not mistaken Optimus doesn't work with Quadro cards atm. The cheaper ones seem to be either Intel only or Nvidia Geforce with Optimus. Damn I hope this mess will be sorted out when I need a new laptop, it is big set back for hardware compatibility for Linux if we can't use Nvidia graphic card on laptops anymore (it seems that now the new models that use Nvidia cards mostly shipped with Optimus, except maybe for those which use the Quadro series)

[dh04000]

OP wants a Nvidia card, is there any thinkpad model that comes with a Nvidia card without Optimus? The only ones I found that may fit the bill are some high end laptops ($$$) that come with Nvidia Quadro cards. If I am not mistaken Optimus doesn't work with Quadro cards atm. The cheaper ones seem to be either Intel only or Nvidia Geforce with Optimus. Damn I hope this mess will be sorted out when I need a new laptop, it is big set back for hardware compatibility for Linux if we can't use Nvidia graphic card on laptops anymore (it seems that now the new models that use Nvidia cards mostly shipped with Optimus, except maybe for those which use the Quadro series)

I've been looking at newegg.com and I found some laptop without optimus. They are mostly above my price range though.... The Nvidia 3XX line of cards due not use optimus.

[3Miro]

Thank you,
I'll be sure to check back here to see how your test went.

Damn it, the CDROM on my ATI computer isn't working. It fails to read any disks. This will take some time to fix. I will post as soon as I have results (hopefully I can think of something tomorrow).

Sorry about this.

[dh04000]

Damn it, the CDROM on my ATI computer isn't working. It fails to read any disks. This will take some time to fix. I will post as soon as I have results (hopefully I can think of something tomorrow).

Sorry about this.

If the game in question can be downloaded, or torrented, use gmount-iso(software center) to mount it for installation.

[3Miro]

If the game in question can be downloaded, or torrented, use gmount-iso(software center) to mount it for installation.

Yes. This was the first ting that I wanted to do, but it will have to wait until tomorrow when I can make and bring a .iso.

[marin123]

i tested penumbra ouverture today and it works flawless with resolution 1360x768 (thats the size of my display) and all details set on high.
i think you are safe with this graphic card :)

[beew]

This may be a stupid question, if the Nvidia card is dedicated does it mean no Optimus?

[dh04000]

i tested penumbra ouverture today and it works flawless with resolution 1360x768 (thats the size of my display) and all details set on high.
i think you are safe with this graphic card :)

Thank you for doing the test. If I end up going with ATi, at least I know I'll have native linux gaming support.

Thanks! I really appreciate it! :)




This may be a stupid question, if the Nvidia card is dedicated does it mean no Optimus?

No, any oem nvidia laptop video card of the 4XX and 5XX family, if the OEM decides too, uses optimus.

So the 2xx and 3xx nvidia family are safe.



EDIT/PS: Anyone know where I can find a Nvidia GT 330M laptop? its older, but at least it has 100% linux compatibility and wine compatibility.

[beew]

No, any oem nvidia laptop video card of the 4XX and 5XX family, if the OEM decides too, uses optimus.

So the 2xx and 3xx nvidia family are safe.



EDIT/PS: Anyone know where I can find a Nvidia GT 330M laptop? its older, but at least it has 100% linux compatibility and wine compatibility.


Thanks for the info.

I don't know where you are but I just checked out the Samsung site in Canada it looks like all are safe ( there are a few with GT330 I think)
http://www.samsung.com/ca/

(Sorry somehow can't get a U.S. link, I am sure they sell computers in the U.S. too)

[beew]

Wait. this one has a GT335m and is Optimus enabled according to Wikipedia.
http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=Z8eiRpmQaN8XIgxW
(http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=Z8eiRpmQaN8XIgxW)

It is the first one on the list
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Optimus

[realzippy]

..look out for an optimus laptop with BIOS switch,there are some around.
optimus thread
(http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=10304516#post10304516)

BTW,the Intel graphics core is running great,read somewhere a 310m might not be
(much) faster.Cannot run mine because I do not have a BIOS switch.

[beew]

Have been reading up a bit on Optimus, this is a huge disaster for Linux laptops (ATI/AMD is still behind, no vdpau equivalent, Intel is obviously crap) Since Optimus only works on Windows7 I am curious what would happen if one installs Vista or XP on these computers. Will it just not be able to switch gpu or will it be unable to use the Nvidia card at all like Linux? Couldn't find any info online because Windows users obviously would have little incentive to swap out the default OEM OS for a different (and downgraded) one.

At this point it seems the only safe laptops with Nvidia cards for Linux are high end gaming laptops and those that are 3d vision capable (3d vision also not supported in Linux except for the Quadro cards). They obviously cost more (the Thinkpad T-series models apparently have the option to disable Optimus from the BIOS, but only the high end Thinkpads come with Nvidia so again it is $$$)

[3Miro]

Thank you,
I'll be sure to check back here to see how your test went.

I tried Stalker Shadow of Chernobyl and Heroes of Might and Magic V, both games run under wine + Nvidia on fairly low end video cards. However, both games fail to run on ATI 4850.

At this point, I wouldn't trust ATI for wine gaming, however, I do believe things are getting there.

[dh04000]

I tried Stalker Shadow of Chernobyl and Heroes of Might and Magic V, both games run under wine + Nvidia on fairly low end video cards. However, both games fail to run on ATI 4850.

At this point, I wouldn't trust ATI for wine gaming, however, I do believe things are getting there.

Thank you for doing that. It seems that an older nvidia is the only laptop option if I want 100% graphics support. Thanks :)