This is an exciting time for linux! (Well, err, at least for me)

[user1397]

I've been using ubuntu for quite some time now and I've always tracked its progress along the way. This next release is unique in that the essential interface is wholly different to every previous version.

I just tried the daily live natty snapshot and I've got to say that although unity looks pretty cool, I'm not sure if I'll like it in the end. I will definitely give it a fair shot once the final natty release is out, but as of now I can say that I am not at all accustomed to an interface like unity so I feel out of my comfort zone.

On a side note: I must also say that although yes, you can just select the classic desktop as your session, some elements of the new desktop are still retained even in classic mode (such as the fact that for some programs their menus still appear integrated in the top panel). Therefore no one can say that in 11.04 the classic desktop is truly the same as any previous version's default desktop.

Anywho, all of this got me thinking that I might end up changing my computer setup dramatically, so this gets me excited (man I'm such a nerd :))

So many options! I can remain with ubuntu (of which I can: not upgrade to natty, use regular natty, use classic desktop natty, use a minimal install and customize etc), or try another distro (oh the choices!)

So yea, I'm excited. Anyone else feel this way or am I just crazy?

[Lucradia]

Who likes using the session bar anyway. Heck, I haven't used it until I had to install Unity 2D.

[Philsoki]

Don't really find it exciting at all right now to be honest. I'm going to try 11.04 out when it's released though. If it's good, then great. If I don't like it then hey, I can just use something else.

Not a big deal for me. :)

[NightwishFan]

I am really interested in Unity. I think it looks great. I will probably show it off in internet cafes. (Instead of a fluxbox with 10 terminals open so people think I am up to no good :D)

I think that Unity will be a great position competition for KDE and Gnome Shell as well.

[Johnsie]

I think it's a disappointing time. Between 2005 and 2009 we had something which could compete with Windows. Now we're going to something that will make people never want to use Ubuntu. It may look good, but the gnome panel is much more practical and doesnt feel good.

[NightwishFan]

Upstream development is leaving the gnome panel, however Ubuntu will support it longer. If the gnome panel makes it to the next LTS it will be supported well beyond it's life.

[Joeb454]

I like unity, I've been trying it out on a spare HDD for some work I'm doing. Once I'd got the nvidia drivers installed it started to behave better and I really like unity, I have to admit!

That said, part of me is quite interested in moving away from Ubuntu for a change, perhaps to Fedora 14...any other time I've thought this though it's lasted a matter of days :p

[slackthumbz]

The only way I'll use unity is if I can disable globalmenu, the top bar and the sidebar and only have AWN and compiz for managing my desktop. Oh wait, that's what I'm doing with gnome 2.x now...

[barbedsaber]

The only way I'll use unity is if I can disable globalmenu, the top bar and the sidebar and only have AWN and compiz for managing my desktop. Oh wait, that's what I'm doing with gnome 2.x now...

hahahahahaha

this made my day

[Copper Bezel]

I think you can just disable the Unity pugin for that. It sounds silly, but I think you get a faster login that way. I feel the same way - I don't have any use for the Unity or Gnome panels.

[uRock]

I think it's a disappointing time. Between 2005 and 2009 we had something which could compete with Windows. Now we're going to something that will make people never want to use Ubuntu. It may look good, but the gnome panel is much more practical and doesnt feel good.

The standard gnome of those years looked just like Windows XP with color variations, which we know is obsolete and ready for retirement. That look will never compete against Windows 7. Unity gives Linux a chance to do its own thing and quit imitating Windows.

[cariboo]

The only way I'll use unity is if I can disable globalmenu, the top bar and the sidebar and only have AWN and compiz for managing my desktop. Oh wait, that's what I'm doing with gnome 2.x now...

Seeing as you have posted this twice, you don't need to use Unity, there is the Classic Desktop available from the session menu. The only thing different about the Classic desktop is the global menu, which you can disable, then you get the old two panel interface, which you can customize t your hearts content.

[burton247]

I think it will be interesting. I'm yet to test out unity, I'll give it a go but I'm not holding out much hope. I'm not enjoying gnome3 either, had a play with it the other day and I personally don't like it. Sorry to any KDE users out there but I have never liked KDE. I hope unity pulls through and works but if not I'll just use openbox + tint2 or something similar as I do on crunchbang.

[Lucradia]

I think you can just disable the Unity pugin for that. It sounds silly, but I think you get a faster login that way. I feel the same way - I don't have any use for the Unity or Gnome panels.

The UNR in 10.10 doesn't use compiz though. :| But since everyone around here likes to test beta main releases, sure, why not slap your Netbook with 11.04.


The standard gnome of those years looked just like Windows XP with color variations, which we know is obsolete and ready for retirement. That look will never compete against Windows 7. Unity gives Linux a chance to do its own thing and quit imitating Windows.

Glad I still use Windows 95 theme in Windows 7 :V Because I'm not for the compositing.

[Legendary_Bibo]

My hope is that if I upgrade to 11.04 that it won't break compiz, cairo dock, gnomenu, emerald, and every other thing I've installed. It did that for me with some packages from 10.04 to 10.10. I finally have a setup and look that I'm comfortable with, I've put a lot of work into the appearance of my desktop and to make sure Gnome isn't hideous. Gnome is good the way it is, I can do things the graphical way for doing tasks faster than I could on a terminal, or even how I could on Windows, and I like it like that. I'll probably be holding out on seeing how 11.04 is before upgrading if I ever decide to do it.

[Copper Bezel]

The standard gnome of those years looked just like Windows XP with color variations, which we know is obsolete and ready for retirement. That look will never compete against Windows 7. Unity gives Linux a chance to do its own thing and quit imitating Windows.

++.


The UNR in 10.10 doesn't use compiz though.

It can. It just stops being Unity. = ) (And there are no desktop icons.)

But yes, in 11.04, Unity depends on a Compiz plugin, while in 10.10, just running Compiz kills Unity.

[slackthumbz]

Seeing as you have posted this twice, you don't need to use Unity, there is the Classic Desktop available from the session menu. The only thing different about the Classic desktop is the global menu, which you can disable, then you get the old two panel interface, which you can customize t your hearts content.

Which is all very well until classic desktop is no longer supported. What then?

[cariboo]

There hasn't been a set date for gnome to stop supporting the two panel interface, all I've seen is eventually it will go away, maybe by then the way you set things up will be different.

[slackthumbz]

There hasn't been a set date for gnome to stop supporting the two panel interface, all I've seen is eventually it will go away, maybe by then the way you set things up will be different.

That's highly doubtful, it took years for me to find my 'desktop zen' as it were and I've never had any desire to change it since (going on about 2 years now).

I occasionally move awn from top right horizontal to top right vertical. That's it. Bear in mind that my primary machine is a netbook and screen real estate is at a premium. The setup I have now maximises available screen real estate whilst still being very pretty and providing a simple and efficient interface to all my applications and work. even if I can auto-hide the sidebar in unity it still wastes space that I currently have available and denies me the option to truly use _my_ desktop in the way that _I_ work best with.

[Copper Bezel]

...

But you're using AWN anyway? You can get a two-panel layout with AWN. *Confused*

[Lucradia]

...

But you're using AWN anyway? You can get a two-panel layout with AWN. *Confused*

step-by-step tutorial?

[slackthumbz]

...

But you're using AWN anyway? You can get a two-panel layout with AWN. *Confused*

What I want is a GNOME desktop (for all the neat under the hood stuff, nautilus, vfs, backend integration etc) where I can disable all the default panels and use one instance of AWN and compiz.

Out of the box XFCE doesn't handle multiple monitors anywhere near as well as gnome. I use almost no QT apps (and I've never got along with KDE) and all the *box window managers are a little too basic.

Will I be able to configure unity to look and behave like that once classic desktop is no longer supported?

[Lucradia]

Will I be able to configure unity to look and behave like that once classic desktop is no longer supported?

More than likely, like gnome-shell; the backbone of the configuration will likely require XML Knowledge, or a completely new module in CCSM that has all config options.

[NightwishFan]

What I want is a GNOME desktop (for all the neat under the hood stuff, nautilus, vfs, backend integration etc) where I can disable all the default panels and use one instance of AWN and compiz.
The situation is exactly the same for upstream Gnome, so why are you complaining about Unity?

Will I be able to configure unity to look and behave like that once classic desktop is no longer supported?[/QUOTE]
It may eventually be possible. More likely due to 3rd party code than the stock Ubuntu though.


The following is not due to the poster I quoted above, just in general. What I am not fond of is the well of negativity that always seems to surround such issues. I like the posters that have a reasonable response (even if against unity). I mean barring the inability to make it work well enough for release, Unity will ship with 11.04. It has enough support from the community that not even riots in the streets will stop that. Accept it.

If you are unable to use it, recommend it, etc. There ARE alternatives just as there are now. Enthusiastic KDE users might not like to use GNOME, but do they attack it? Do they call for it's development to stop?

Unity is even less of a problem as it is merely a shell for Gnome, with all the infrastructure in place. To be honest, it is little different from Ubuntu now (gnome+compiz) except that it replaces the panel. Trust me folks no matter what distro you use, unless they are going to maintain the panel themselves, it is going to go away. What you can hope for is a long time support of it. As I said before, if the gnome-panel makes it into the next LTS, it will be supported well beyond it's life time. Why not put to code or word in towards that end instead of complaining?

The move to Unity I think is a good one, if anything it is more finished and more flexible than the Gnome Shell. Both of them can compete to make an awesome interface, and both will certainly be available.

My point is we have the power as a community to make things happen. If we want gnome 2 to remain as long as it can we have to work toward that end. If not with Ubuntu than with others such as Arch or Debian. It is all free software. Have faith in the future and by our own hands we can make it happen. :D

[slackthumbz]

The situation is exactly the same for upstream Gnome, so why are you complaining about Unity?

It may eventually be possible. More likely due to 3rd party code than the stock Ubuntu though.


The following is not due to the poster I quoted above, just in general. What I am not fond of is the well of negativity that always seems to surround such issues. I like the posters that have a reasonable response (even if against unity). I mean barring the inability to make it work well enough for release, Unity will ship with 11.04. It has enough support from the community that not even riots in the streets will stop that. Accept it.

If you are unable to use it, recommend it, etc. There ARE alternatives just as there are now. Enthusiastic KDE users might not like to use GNOME, but do they attack it? Do they call for it's development to stop?

Unity is even less of a problem as it is merely a shell for Gnome, with all the infrastructure in place. To be honest, it is little different from Ubuntu now (gnome+compiz) except that it replaces the panel. Trust me folks no matter what distro you use, unless they are going to maintain the panel themselves, it is going to go away. What you can hope for is a long time support of it. As I said before, if the gnome-panel makes it into the next LTS, it will be supported well beyond it's life time. Why not put to code or word in towards that end instead of complaining?

The move to Unity I think is a good one, if anything it is more finished and more flexible than the Gnome Shell. Both of them can compete to make an awesome interface, and both will certainly be available.

My point is we have the power as a community to make things happen. If we want gnome 2 to remain as long as it can we have to work toward that end. If not with Ubuntu than with others such as Arch or Debian. It is all free software. Have faith in the future and by our own hands we can make it happen. :D

I really don't mind the shift to unity, I haven't called for its development to stop. All I want is for it to be as flexible and configurable as the current gnome desktop. I really don't care about gnome-panel going away, I don't even use gnome-panel in gnome 2.x. I just want to be able to disable the default panel, whatever it may be, and replace it with something else (AWN). All I'm asking is that the developers don't try to force a desktop usage paradigm on the users and allow for those of us who like to do things a little differently.

Is that too much to ask?

[Copper Bezel]

Well no, I don't think it is, honestly. I guess I'm just more optimistic than you that the Unity panel will continue being easy to sabotage.


step-by-step tutorial?

Are you asking for one? I haven't seen one, but I guess I could put one together.

[Lucradia]

Are you asking for one? I haven't seen one, but I guess I could put one together.

No reason to be confused then. I don't know how to get one.

[youbuntu]

GNU & Linux is ALWAYS exciting! I have never EVER got as enthused about Windows, and come to think of it, OS X either, even as an ex Mac user (and almost fanboy). Something just "feels good" about GNU & Linux, and this community positively exudes it - that is one of the reasons I love free software so much! :D

[Copper Bezel]

No reason to be confused then. I don't know how to get one.

Oh. Well I guess I should actually do that, then. = )


GNU & Linux is ALWAYS exciting! I have never EVER got as enthused about Windows, and come to think of it, OS X either, even as an ex Mac user (and almost fanboy). Something just "feels good" about GNU & Linux, and this community positively exudes it - that is one of the reasons I love free software so much!

Admittedly, it's hard to be pragmatic about something that starts with an ideal....

[beew]

I really don't mind the shift to unity, I haven't called for its development to stop. All I want is for it to be as flexible and configurable as the current gnome desktop. I really don't care about gnome-panel going away, I don't even use gnome-panel in gnome 2.x. I just want to be able to disable the default panel, whatever it may be, and replace it with something else (AWN). All I'm asking is that the developers don't try to force a desktop usage paradigm on the users and allow for those of us who like to do things a little differently.

Is that too much to ask?


Well put. I am in almost the same situation as you are, only that I use the Cairo Dock instead of Awn. I don't really care for the panel, but I want at least the same number of options available in Unity, if not more, to allow me to customize my desk top.

I would be happy if I have a usable application menu (the dash is terribly inconvenient) and the option to move/remove the unity bar.

My problem is exactly that they try to fore a desktop usage paradigm on users. Like this
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/12/ubuntu-unity-launcher-wont-be-moveable/
It is not that they are too busy to implement requested options, but they deliberately lock down the desktop by design ( I am speechless with the ludicrous suggestion that you can use awn AND the Unity dock)

I find it quite upsetting that champions for Unity continue to set up the strawman that all nay sayer are attached to the crusty gnome two panel setup and irrationally resist change. If "change" result in removing existing options by design, I can't see how anyone would rationally find it a positive thing,

[slackthumbz]

Well put. I am in almost the same situation as you are, only that I use the Cairo Dock instead of Awn. I don't really care for the panel, but I want at least the same number of options available in Unity, if not more, to allow me to customize my desk top.

I would be happy if I have a usable application menu (the dash is terribly inconvenient) and the option to move/remove the unity bar.

My problem is exactly that they try to fore a desktop usage paradigm on users. Like this
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/12/ubuntu-unity-launcher-wont-be-moveable/
It is not that they are too busy to implement requested options, but they deliberately lock down the desktop by design ( I am speechless with the ludicrous suggestion that you can use awn AND the Unity dock)

I find it quite upsetting that champions for Unity continue to set up the strawman that all nay sayer are attached to the crusty gnome two panel setup and irrationally resist change. If "change" result in removing existing options by design, I can't see how anyone would rationally find it a positive thing,

Completely agree, one of the great things about Linux desktop environments has always been their flexibility but it seems that both Canonical and the GNOME project have lost sight of that and gone the way of Apple and MS (in that they're taking away choice from users rather than giving us the power to create what we want).

And as for the people who keep saying "Oh just use classic desktop", that's a red herring and we all know it. The classic desktop is time limited option and won't be around forever.

[NightwishFan]

And as for the people who keep saying "Oh just use classic desktop", that's a red herring and we all know it. The classic desktop is time limited option and won't be around forever.

Nothing will around forever. It all depends on just how long it will be, is it long enough? That is what you should be finding out. It will be around as long as someone steps up to maintain it.

As for the design being locked down. To be honest, not my favourite thing. I was a little down that they decided to do that. Though on the other hand, a consistent and visual design is perfect for new computer users.

[bruce89]

Completely agree, one of the great things about Linux desktop environments has always been their flexibility but it seems that both Canonical and the GNOME project have lost sight of that and gone the way of Apple and MS (in that they're taking away choice from users rather than giving us the power to create what we want).

GNOME's never been in the business of giving people what they want as such. However, you can choose to not use GNOME if you wish, and that's good. Same goes for Canonical (one reason why Brainstorm is a stupid idea).

[Copper Bezel]

It's much more in the way of Apple than of MS, if that makes any sense. It's all about creating a packaged user experience. I know that's not exactly comforting, but it's worth considering.

[beew]

As for the design being locked down. To be honest, not my favourite thing. I was a little down that they decided to do that. Though on the other hand, a consistent and visual design is perfect for new computer users.

I am not sure who are these "new computer users" that I keep hearing about. It seems that a lot of people kind of assume that they are either idiots who can't read application menus or children who are attracted to big shiny icons, or people who mistaken desktops as mobile phones.

What happens if the "new user" actually likes Ubuntu and decides to do something with it instead of staring at the pretty desktop and find the new UI awkward to use? In another thread someone posted that after working with Unity for a week or so he has gotten quite used to it and helpfully posted a list of hotkeys to do some simple and natural tasks that cannot be accomplished using Unity's interface. Are we expecting "new computer users" to memorize a lot of hot keys or maybe by the time they start actually working with their computers they are no longer new so to heck with them too?

I am all for pretty interface and sensible defaults, but that should enhance usability instead hinders it. For example, I have no idea of how the global menu actually enhances usability. It is confusing if you have several unmaximized apps opened, since it needs the top panel for menu it prevents it from being used for other functions so it is a waste(you can't get rid of the top panel even if you disable Unity, it just becomes a static black bar. At least the gnome panel does something!)

[NightwishFan]

As of the last alpha I could remove the global menu on the classic desktop. :/

New users, I suppose an example would be someone like my grandma, that could really benefit from a visual UI (such as the gnome shell, and hopefully unity).

[MasterNetra]

The only way I'll use unity is if I can disable globalmenu, the top bar and the sidebar and only have AWN and compiz for managing my desktop. Oh wait, that's what I'm doing with gnome 2.x now...

Then just use classic in 11.04 .

I look forward to it, and hope it turns out well. I don't expect I'll be "comfortable" with it. But thats just because I'm used to Gnome 2.x's simplicity. I plan on trying it for a few months and see if I can get used to it. Should be interesting.

Gnome Shell, probably not sense they removed minimization and such. That's one classic feature I'm not giving up.

[beew]

As of the last alpha I could remove the global menu on the classic desktop. :/

New users, I suppose an example would be someone like my grandma, that could really benefit from a visual UI (such as the gnome shell, and hopefully unity).

Well the classical desktop is not Unity. :)

I don't know about your grandma but my dad doesn't really care about UI (his Vista laptop is a disaster both in terms of aesthetics and functionality). He cares about only 3 things

1) he can edit his photo album 2) he can "do the internet" 3) In case of troubles it is easy to get technical support.

He uses Vista because it comes with the laptop and he has all three. Ubuntu would be no because

1) he would have to get used to something new.

2) he can't get technical support as I am the only person who uses Linux in the family and I am 14 hours by flight (if I fly direct) away from my dad.

[cariboo]

I really don't understand all this angst about Unity not allowing anyone to customize it the way they want. I say if you don't like it you don't have to use it. There is always the Mini iso, that allows you to install only what you want, with the proper mix and match of packages you can have a desktop that looks and does what you want. It may take a bit of extra time the first time, but there enough examples in the forums on how to make a list of packages you installed to be able to duplicate your setup when ever you want

Keep in mind that a Linux distribution is basically a mix of packages that someone thought others would find useful.

[beew]

I really don't understand all this angst about Unity not allowing anyone to customize it the way they want. I say if you don't like it you don't have to use it. There is always the Mini iso, that allows you to install only what you want, with the proper mix and match of packages you can have a desktop that looks and does what you want. It may take a bit of extra time the first time, but there enough examples in the forums on how to make a list of packages you installed to be able to duplicate your setup when ever you want

Keep in mind that a Linux distribution is basically a mix of packages that someone thought others would find useful.


I am saying that because I like Ubuntu, otherwise I wouldn't even bother. Unity is going to be the future face of Ubuntu, so I would rather the devs listen to users and make it more customizable than having to go to other desktops like the gnome 2x which is no longer under development and will probably not even be maintained by gnome by 12.04 (so Canonical would have to maintain it if it offers the classical desktop in 12.04 LTS)

[MasterNetra]

I am saying that because I like Ubuntu, otherwise I wouldn't even bother. Unity is going to be the future face of Ubuntu, so I would rather the devs listen to users and make it more customizable than having to go to other desktops like the gnome 2x which is no longer under development and will probably not even be maintained by gnome by 12.04 (so Canonical would have to maintain it if it offers the classical desktop in 12.04 LTS)

Well keep in mind that Unity is still in development, geting it work properly trumpets customisation, I would imagine they will make it more customisable in the future, they're just working on the nuts and bolts of it right now. Patience young grasshopper, less you hop into a frying pan...

[Copper Bezel]

There's a limit to that insofar as Unity is meant to have a consistent look and workflow, as someone already noted with the permanently immobile left-hand panel.

Having just discovered what AWN's transparency mode does, I'm even less interested in Unity than ever, and I do rather require that Ubuntu goes on allowing me to use Gnome without either provided panel, but I don't think that's unreasonable or, more importantly, unlikely to be the case from here out. Again, even if the Classic desktop goes away, there will always be hacks, because this is Linux. I just remind myself: that I'm not using Gnome Panel now is essentially someone's hack. The Gnome devs were none too supportive of folks peddling alternative panels copping the Notification Area, as I understand it, which is why it took so absurdly long to make that possible.