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orco.gregorio
February 7th, 2011, 11:00 PM
I sent a report to the competition European Commission at this page:
http://ec.europa.eu/competition/forms/consumer_form_en.html

I sent the text in English, hoping that they take up the case directly and not pass it to the Italian jurisdiction.

Excuse me for my grammatical errors in English, but if you had similar problems you can use my text as basis for sending your report, as in the best traditions of open source!

The report is about HP laptop and the Windows OS installed at the first start. Of course you can adapt to your PC manufacturer if they use the same practices.

Here's the text:
Hewlett-Packard and Windows

Information technology

The problem concern concerted practices of HP and Windows which effect the prevention, restriction and distortion of competition within the internal market.

As final consumer I bought at the end of December a HP laptop (HP G62-a20SL Notebook PC) with Windows 7 Home Premium 64 OEM.
At the start up of the PC, HP says that the consumer have to accept the term conditions about the OS installed on the PC (I have not a copy of this document, Eula.txt, because HP refuse to send me a copy).
The problem is that once started, the laptop has already installed several Shareware programs, like Office, antivirus, firewall etc. and HP assistance and control softwares. Most of these software after a limited period of time ask for a payment if you want use them.

The violation of the law that I see is this:
Art. 101
concerted practices which may effect the prevention, restriction or distortion of competition within the internal market, and in particular those which:
(b) limit or control markets and technical development;
(e) make the conclusion of contracts subject to acceptance by the other parties of supplementary obligations which, by their nature or according to commercial usage, have no connection with the subject of such contracts.

There are three things that proof the intention to violate this law:
1) From the HP website you can download for free all the software and drivers that are already installed on the laptop but not Windows. You are forced to buy the windows 7 home premium 64 OEM in the price of the laptop, and you cannot have a clean version of the software neither a paybak of the software if you don't want install it.

2)If you want a copy of the windos7/hp software you have to pay 38,40 (http://www.best2serve.com/page/overview_hardware_related_products), that is more than half of a new windows OEM license with DVD. The customer is already owner of a product key and the right to use that software, but he can't have that software without others programs already installed.
3)The thing more important is that when you start the first time the pc, or when you install with the HP/Windows CD the OS. Your Hard disk will be partitiooned in several different parts, that forbidden you to install with windows other OS. For other OS I mean other version of windows, linux or OSX etc.

For these reason the consumer is forced to buy the Windows licence. It is not important if he wants to use or he doesn't want to use windows. If he want to use windows he must accept also other third software and he is technically forbidden to install different OS besides Windows.

Install at the same moment different OS is technically possible with every kind of laptop, but HP and Windows denied the consumer to do this if he want to use the software that he paid with the laptop.

I think that this imposition limit or control markets and technical development, because what they do is a restrictions which are not indispensable for improving the production or distribution of goods.

In addition considerign that Windows is in a dominant position, this behaviour concerted with HP is an abuse (Art.102) because it is:
(b) limiting the technical development to the prejudice of consumers;
(d)making the conclusion of contracts subject to acceptance by the other parties of supplementary obligations which, by their nature or according to commercial usage, have no connection with the subject of such contracts.

The point (d) is made with the obligation to have installed on you pc other windows programs, as the Office shareware software that is not demanded by the consumer.



I hope to achieve a real possibility for consumers to try the differents OS and Software and pay just the software that the customer choose. Nowadays the HP and Windows behaviour reduces their and third part incentives to provide new or better products and services at competitive prices.
My personal aim is also have my clean Windows 7 Home Premium OEM without pay for have a copy or a copy with a new product key.

orco.gregorio
February 9th, 2011, 09:29 AM
no answer? :(

Elfy
February 9th, 2011, 09:39 AM
moved to cafe - take up the thread again when it's open

orco.gregorio
February 24th, 2011, 12:13 AM
So can I say now:

UP



???
:popcorn:

By the way, no one answer from the EU, I'm waiting...

oxf
February 24th, 2011, 01:01 AM
Good luck I wish you well!

The only thing I would say is that you are not forbidden to install another OS. There is nothing illegal in doing that, although you may void the warantee of the PC by doing so!

Dr. C
February 24th, 2011, 05:58 AM
Good luck I wish you well!

The only thing I would say is that you are not forbidden to install another OS. There is nothing illegal in doing that, although you may void the warantee of the PC by doing so!

True for a PC but what about mobile devices such as the iPhone and Windows Phone 7 devices? It is in moblie where the real problem lies not in a Windows PC where one can boot from an Ubuntu disk and install Ubuntu over the pre installed Windows installation.

mr_luksom
February 25th, 2011, 08:18 AM
Best of luck - I too abhor the preinstallation of trial versions or shareware on new computers. It preys on the weak-minded and computer illiterate tempting them to buy whatever happens to flash on their screen, not what is best suited for them (not to mention cheapest or free).

That type of behaviour is half the reason I converted to F/OSS (that and how rubbish propriety software is compared to its free competitors;))

Dixon Bainbridge
February 25th, 2011, 09:35 AM
Also, I'm not sure that you "own" a copy of windows anymore, but you lease it, or purchase the right to use it. It's owned by Microsoft, who can withdraw the users use of it at anytime they see fit. It's in the EULA I think.

orco.gregorio
March 1st, 2011, 09:25 AM
Good luck I wish you well!

The only thing I would say is that you are not forbidden to install another OS. There is nothing illegal in doing that, although you may void the warantee of the PC by doing so!

yes it is true, they never said that is forbidden.
But in fact a customer cannot install a dual boot if one of the OS is the windows with the licence that he own from HP.

this is like a technical prohibition, but usually the European Commission look at the behaviour of the companies more than at the contracts.


By the way I didn't receive an answer, I want to send it one more time, is there here someone that can correct my english text please? (I'm not english mothertongue)
If you have something more to add just tell me!

orco.gregorio
March 2nd, 2011, 01:24 PM
Dear Mr orco.gregorio,

Thank you for your email of 05 February 2011, which relates to the difficulty of purchasing PCs without a pre-installed Windows operating system.

The Commission is aware of these difficulties and monitors the developments in this field.

In some Member States consumers have pursued a reimbursement for unwanted and unused software licences through the judicial system. I should draw your attention to what may be an Italian and four French precedent cases on the matter, reported at

http://www.aduc.it/dyn/comunicati/comu_mostra.php?id=197413,
http://www.aful.org/media/document/JugementCRESP-ASUS_06.07.06.pdf,
http://www.aful.org/media/document/jugement-Gutzwiller-Acer-20070723.pdf,
http://www.foruminternet.org/specialistes/veille-juridique/jurisprudence/IMG/pdf/jurpro-lib20080213.pdf,
http://www.aful.org/media/document/Jugement-Hordoir-ASUS-20080430.pdf

I hope to have provided you with a satisfactory response to your e-mail.

Yours sincerely,