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brentoboy
April 29th, 2006, 02:12 AM
I have a few observations, followd by a suggestion.

I have no idea how things actually work in this area, so dont be offended if I am way out in left field on this issue.

here is the observation:

people post stuff on these forums. they post bugs, precieved bugs, questions, problems, worries, excitement--everything.

these forums are the pulse of ubuntu. If you put your finger on these threads, then you know the exact current status of the ubuntu project.
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now, for good reasons, the ubuntu designers and developers dont waste hours wading though all the stuff--most of it is crap anyway. I write software for a living, and I dont have time to wade through "reported" bugs and concerns. Our tech support guys dont even wade through it all, they just answer questions until people are working again, and then move on.

but, I can see that many many bugs get reported here by people asking for help, and I am sure that the bugs never get reported. It is like editing the wiki, people are affraid to do something as official as report a bug--they dont even know if it is a bug, reporting a bug means second guessing the developers--and to noobs, there is no way in their mind that the developers were wrong. so the bug goes unreported.

I am a dapper user, but I dont report bugs. I assume there are hundreds of people reporting the same bugs--but I am startingto thing I am wrong, some of my bugs are noticed by hundreds, but not reportd by any.
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now, ubuntu sets out to be the best desktop distro.

and, why would anyone do something like create ubuntu unless they wanted to be the best.

And I can see a need that probably isnt being filled.

there is a need for people who know what they are doing to look through the forums, search for enhancement requests, bug reports, and other things that sould be reported the right way, and they need to do the sort of research needed to make it easy to have the developers and designers get a flood of *qualified* bug reports and ideas.

ubuntu needs a handful of old-school users who take it upon themselves to figure out if something is a real problem, and then submit a bug for the n00b who wont do it themselves.
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the problem is that the old school guys dont even see some of the problems anymore, for instance, my nvidia card had issues when I installed breezy. I swaped in for vesa drivers until I got the proprietary drivers in place, and never even realized that there was a serious problem. A few other people on the forums reported the same "hang" I saw (just after the drums), I talked them through it. life is good--did anyone ever report it? probably not for a month or two after I noticed it (I noticed it the day the first beta breezy cd was out)

these forums are not read by developers looking for work to do, the ubuntu devs are not out of things to do with so much time on their hands that they have to go fishing for more.

newbies will never report things properly, and they are the ones that notice the most things that are a problem.

newbies do post thier problems

someone should sift through those problems, and report the real ones for the newbies (assume everyone is a newbie)
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anyway there is my rant. these forums are the pulse of the project. if no one is using them for bug reporting and enhancement requests, then a lot of valueable stuff is being missed.

briancurtin
April 29th, 2006, 02:20 AM
ok...

brentoboy
April 29th, 2006, 02:33 AM
ok...

ok

so does anyone know if there are people wandering the posts looking for bugs that need to be reported? I dont really know. that is why I posted.

I dont think that people out of the goodness of their hearts will, unless they are on the "official bug-hunting committee" I dont mean so much that it needs to be official, just that there are a handful of people who know they are the leason between the community and those who do the dirty work.

BoyOfDestiny
April 29th, 2006, 02:48 AM
Well, post bug reports for your bugs on launchpad (it's stickied in the dapper section). If it's a common bug, it'll likely get reported.

I reported a bug on the search option in nautilus, and a playback problem in VLC as well as others. I can provide information for them because I experienced the bug.

It would be a big waste of time trying to file a bug for someone else, unless I ran into the same one (as is helped by the threads here). Otherwise, I'll have to attempt to recreate the situation where the bug occured. It's possible the bug has already been fixed, or some other factor wasn't there.

Just take a few minutes to report your bug. Search the bug database to make sure it hasn't been filed. It doesn't take much effort on our part. If the bug you noticed is not reported, and something obscure... Prepare for it to stick around for a long time... :P

brentoboy
April 29th, 2006, 03:02 AM
it isnt so much that I hesitate to report a bug (I never have, and I have noticed my share) it is more the fact that even if I change my ways, that doesnt change human nature--most people wont report them. especially the new guys who notice them, and havent already learned a work around that makes the bug less of an issue for them.

for instance, in the last release of dapper OOo writer, the buttons in the toolbars disappear unless you hover over them. the one with the hot-focus is visible the rest are gone. same with menu entries. I dont care, I'll just use abiword until its fixed. a newb wouldnt try the workaround, they would come to the forums. but they wont "trouble the developers" with it.

even if we teach newbies to use the bug report system, next week there will be more newbies, and it will be a constant uphill battle.
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each sub-forum has a moderator, the moderators already have a lot to do, so I am not suggesting that they start testing people's reported bugs, and try to recreate them, but I am suggesting that each sub-forum have a person or two assigned to find the gems in the forums and bring them to the elite community.

angkor
April 29th, 2006, 10:31 AM
for instance, in the last release of dapper OOo writer, the buttons in the toolbars disappear unless you hover over them. the one with the hot-focus is visible the rest are gone. same with menu entries. I dont care, I'll just use abiword until its fixed. a newb wouldnt try the workaround, they would come to the forums. but they wont "trouble the developers" with it.

Well the point is, I'm not having that problem in OOwriter in the latest dapper. So I couldn't possibly file that bug report if I wanted to. If the devs start asking me questions about the bug or about what I have installed on my system I would give them false information on the bug.

The best approach IMO is to start a thread about your problem and see if anyone experiences the same thing. If there are other people with the same problem it's probably a bug and you can file it. I can not report bugs I don't experience.

23meg
April 25th, 2007, 09:34 AM
This is one of the things the Forum Ambassadors team (http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=235) will be doing as it expands its scope: keep an open eye for reproducible problems posted by users in support threads and report them as bugs, or help users do so.