[ubuntu] Unity - desktop icons [Archive]

Krytarik

January 16th, 2011, 10:53 PM

At the moment it's obviously impossible, who knows what the future will bring. I'm also curious about how Canonical develops the Unity desktop further, now they chose it as the default desktop. In the meantime, the only way to place shortcuts seems to be the dock, there of course you could place a shortcut to a folder where your other shortcuts are placed, if you happen to have so many of them.

http://maketecheasier.com/unity-new-desktop-environment-for-netbook/2010/05/11

EgoGratis

January 19th, 2011, 08:07 PM

I just don't know what to say to this fact?

:-k

EgoGratis

January 22nd, 2011, 03:34 PM

How should i explain it to somebody that he or she can't have icons on the Ubuntu desktop! What should i say?

andymorton

January 22nd, 2011, 03:36 PM

How should i explain to somebody i will install Ubuntu and he/she can't have icons on the desktop. What should i say?

An alternative is not to use Unity. With both the netbook edition and the 11.04 desktop edition you can use standard gnome.

andy

EgoGratis

January 22nd, 2011, 03:56 PM

An alternative is not to use Unity. With both the netbook edition and the 11.04 desktop edition you can use standard gnome. Yes i know but this is not a "solution", but rather a "workaround".

Unity will be the default interface for Ubuntu users from now on and people will just use it. Millions of users won't be able to put their files, folders and launchers on the desktop. What should be the answer to them when they will ask the question why?

Use classical Gnome desktop is not a good answer and a lot of bad publicity would come from that kind of answer!

rvchari

January 22nd, 2011, 04:03 PM

Yes i know but this is not a "solution", but rather a "workaround".

Unity will be the default interface for Ubuntu users from now on and people will just use it. Millions of users won't be able to put their files, folders and launchers on the desktop. What should be the answer to them when they will ask the question why?

Use classical Gnome desktop is not a good answer and a loot of bad publicity would come from that kind of answer!

i think a more viable solution / suggestion would be like this...
most ubuntu users like their desktop to be clean and free from cluttering it with icons. when the need arises, we have an option to create customised launchers on the dock, dont we ?
in that case the icons will look aligned on the dock !!! and by using awn preferences with "NONE" i the type of dock and aligned to right, and increasing the icon size... the effect we need for desktop icons is achieved !!!

do suggest if i m wrong..

EgoGratis

January 22nd, 2011, 04:33 PM

The only problem is people are used to put their files, folders and launchers on the desktop. It has been like these in all popular OS with GUI front-end for many many many years. If you look closer starting from OS for mobile phones and upwards everybody are doing it like this! You can put different elements on you desktop if you want. And probably 99% of user does it.

This is the main problem. Users does it and i just don't see how exactly users will react positively to the fact they won't be able to do it any more! I think a lot of user will react in negative way.

EgoGratis

January 22nd, 2011, 05:03 PM

I hope it will turn out good! I like Ubuntu and i have confidence in it.

rvchari

January 22nd, 2011, 05:54 PM

in the days when i was a newbie using computer and ofcourse the one and only popular OS available with gui, a 'wise' man gave me a wonderful tip...
desktop is a folder and dont clutter it with lots of contents. the more the content, the more time u ll waste getting the OS loaded before u r in a position to execute the 'start' button !!! how true !!!

now that advice / tip is still being used by me and i love to keep desktop empty !!!

rvchari

January 22nd, 2011, 06:00 PM

i love ubuntu too.... and i dont think i ll ever use the erstwhile popular OS anymore !!!

Krytarik

January 22nd, 2011, 08:23 PM

I want to say, that I also haven't barely anything on the desktop, there are the default device icons, I don't use them at all, and some notes. Because since you have always more than one window open, it's a lot faster to click an item in one of your panels than to use the "show desktop" applet or to switch to another (empty) workspace and then click the item.

But regardless of that fact I can imagine, since Canonical has chosen Unity as the default desktop environment for future releases, and has already put it under heavy development therefore, that at the end Unity will look much different than today, and it may be even possible to place items on the desktop. I'm pretty sure that Canonical is well aware of the all-users-are-used-to-do-it-that-way fact.

Greetings.

Copper Bezel

January 22nd, 2011, 11:24 PM

"Desktop" and "workspace" are interchangeable in my mind. If I'm downloading a bunch of files temporarily, I drop them to the desktop to sort through them. If I want to create a new text document, 90% of the time, I do so by right-clicking the desktop.

It's just a folder for temporary things. By the time I log off for the night, it generally contains two folders - one for stuff I'm playing with but won't need long enough to actually sort into my files and my Dropbox folder.

Take all of that away, and you don't have a desktop - you have wallpaper. And while I hate from the bottom of my heart to see Windows desktops cluttered with a bunch of launchers (which should never reside on a desktop) and random files just strewn around, that's the result of a messy user, not a messy UI. Not having a desktop folder would seriously damage my workflow. Doesn't anyone think it's a little insulting to take away desktop functionality because you can't trust users to keep them clean?

rvchari

January 23rd, 2011, 06:55 AM

Krytarik

January 23rd, 2011, 07:27 AM

in that case, will a stack or an applet that sits on dock take care of the above jobs ? i went to the extent of using gconf-editor not to display desktop items like home folder, mounted volumes etc....
The workflow Copper Bezel described? (BTW, sorry for your lost account, did recognize your avatar though.)

Of course you could simply add a launcher to the dock which opens a specified directory where you could follow the same workflow. In Unity it would imo also be displayed in Windows7-style at the dock. Once opened, it remains there and is clickable to bring it up. And will not be opened again, as with current panel launchers in Gnome. Then there would be exactly no difference from the functionality of the current desktop.

Copper Bezel

January 23rd, 2011, 10:14 AM

Okay, I'd never played with stacks. That's everything I want out of desktop items at the price of a single launcher, and much easier to get to than the desktop itself. Consider me a convert. = )

Edit: Oh, I have to explain this. I'd never even thought about trying the stacks applet, and when someone proposed an applet in place of the desktop folder, I typed up a list of things that it ought to do and how it ought to do them and what it would take to meet and what it would take to exceed my expectations. I decided to try the stacks applet, just in case I was missing out on something. It did all of these things. = ) It makes much more sense to me now to store files in the panel than on the desktop. (I think there's an argument to be made about some people simply preferring a more visual layout, and the stacks applet doesn't take dropped text and turn it into a text file the way a Nautilus window or the desktop does, but I'm quite impressed otherwise.)

coffeecat

January 23rd, 2011, 10:33 AM

Will it be possible in Unity to have file and folder icons on the desktop?

The short answer for Natty/11.04 is - yes. My Natty Alpha Unity testing desktop is already very untidy! :wink:

Copper Bezel

January 23rd, 2011, 10:36 AM

Well, despite the fact that it was irrelevant, I'm still happy for the learning experience. Stacks for me!

Krytarik

January 24th, 2011, 01:37 AM

@Copper Bezel: I'm still somewhat impressed by your quick -and even voluntary;)- conversion, respect!! And I would keep it that way, because, may others say what they want, I'm not considering the profile dir a safe location to store important files, not even temporarily. Nor do I put system files and data/media storage together at one partition.

One question, although slightly off-topic: You are talking about a dock right, maybe AWN? I considered it a visual backstep so far to have such a bulk bar instead of the default tiny panels. Can you really put anything of the latter in the dock? Or do you have to keep at least one panel running?

rvchari

January 24th, 2011, 03:26 AM

Krytarik

January 24th, 2011, 03:39 AM

i think u can put everything on dock... usually one panel is kept handy just in case AWN plays mischief.

by the way you said a bulk ? use AWN trunk, my icon size is 23 and awn behaviour can be tweaked (from 3d panel to invisibility)
am sure u must b aware...
Yeah, I somewhat expected that one can configure the height, just concluded from the usual screenshots, thanks.

What is the real advantage then, the Windows7-style behaviour I described earlier?

rvchari

January 24th, 2011, 04:27 AM

actually speaking i never gave a thought on win7 (rarely use it for some apps that run only on win) i use rocket dock there and the irritating thing is the icon size is huge and i cant resize them !!! launchers r there but all r huge.

here in gud ol'buntu i use awn with size 23 (as tiny as we can be comfortable)

i read in this thread earlier that ppl will be glad to have desktop icons so i was figuring that out. locate awn dock on the right side, increase icon size, make the dock invisible and u have desktop icons in unity interface (as in desktop edition).

i m not keen to use that but may b helpful to those who are addicted to the more conventional style of iconising on desktop !!!

you can always create customised launcher in awn and give the icon image your choice png or compatible image !!!

Copper Bezel

January 24th, 2011, 05:10 AM

On keeping personal files out of Home: Wow. I'm not remotely that strong at my Linux-fu, and my security concerns can be expressed in the fact that I have automatic login active; I'm running on a 32Gb SSD and couldn't reasonably partition it up without inconveniencing myself later. Conversely, using gconf-editor and a symbolic link, you could store your desktop contents on an encrypted partition or virtual partition, anyway, if you were so inclined.

At any rate, yes, the stacks applet works quite well with AWN. I chose AWN over Gnome Panel for the aesthetics (and certainly not for the fifteen seconds it effective adds to my login time), but it's well worth it for the theme customizability, the real transparency, etc. It's about thirty-five instead of twenty-five pixels thick when reasonably readable (total thickness, not icon size), but it also has an Intellihide behavior, like the Unity launcher's, that's far more responsive than Gnome Panel's autohide. And of course you can have separate docks with separate configurations and behaviors, so I'm presently using a Unity-styled lefthand taskbar panel and upper-right-corner wingpanel sort of thing for the indicators.

You can't put "anything" from Gnome Panel in AWN, but all the basic stuff is there, along with a few extras - they're just separate projects, so that, for instance, the CPU scaling applet is a graphical bar in place of a number and icon. No unexpected problems with the appindicators and notification area that I've seen, either.

I just can't bear the clunkiness of the Gnome Panel. It doesn't make any sense to me to have launchers separate from the taskbar, and the taskbar doesn't even work properly in vertical orientations, anyway, nor most of the GTK+ skins. Then there's the aesthetics, and then there's the sluggish and unpredictable autohide behavior....

Krytarik

January 24th, 2011, 05:36 AM

@rvchari: I don't have Windows running at my machine currently. But installed Windows7 on my mum's machine, because most of the games don't run good, if at all, with wine. I was somewhat impressed by the it and the new taskbar.

@Copper Bezel: My expressed concern is more about loosing data, not that someone could access them there, which is of course also more risky that way, but with Linux, you know...
Thanks for the comprehensive info regarding AWN, I think I will give it a try.

rvchari

January 24th, 2011, 10:58 AM

i have used cairo, docky and awn, awn-trunk.
i concluded that awn-trunk will stay on my desktop !!! easier to customise and still its not heavy on resources like cairo. docky looked more primitive in my view..

i am sure you will like the invisible effect of dock with just the icons and launchers displayed as icons...

download awn-trunk and not awn... just for ur info

Copper Bezel

January 24th, 2011, 04:33 PM

Glad to hear you're giving it a go!

And yes, absolutely add the PPA for the most recent version. The updates are frequent, so you might want to disable it after you install. AWN is a great balance between something like Cairo-Dock, which is a bewildering collection of tweaks and extensions that don't really play well together, and Docky, which is a bit simplistic and still requires you to use a Gnome panel (because that's not its function.)

Krytarik

January 24th, 2011, 07:41 PM

Great, thanks for the valuable info!

@Copper Bezel: You mean this PPA, right?:
https://launchpad.net/~awn-testing/+archive/ppa

EgoGratis

January 24th, 2011, 08:19 PM

The short answer for Natty/11.04 is - yes. My Natty Alpha Unity testing desktop is already very untidy! :wink:

Glad to hear this! I liked the debate here and i like to learn new things. I opened this thread because i thought this will not be possible in Natty Narwhal.

I just didn't know what to say to users i would recommend or install Ubuntu on their computer when they ask me WHY they can't do that. :)

You must admit it would need a lot of explaining, learning and not everybody would be happy in the end?

Copper Bezel

January 24th, 2011, 08:56 PM

Great, thanks for the valuable info!

@Copper Bezel: You mean this PPA, right?:
https://launchpad.net/~awn-testing/+archive/ppa (https://launchpad.net/%7Eawn-testing/+archive/ppa)

Yep, that's the one. = )

You must admit it would need a lot of explaining, learning and not everybody would be happy in the end?

It would be an unusual choice, but Unity does treat the desktop space more like a phone's than a traditional desktop OS might, turning it into a launcher and search space with a click. I agree that doing anything dramatically differently from how most OSes handle things, especially for an arbitrary or aesthetic reason, could turn away some users, but it's not impossible to imagine a desktop environment where using the desktop as a folder would be legitimately irrelevant (I. e., Android.)

Krytarik

January 24th, 2011, 11:12 PM

but it's not impossible to imagine a desktop environment where using the desktop as a folder would be legitimately irrelevant (I. e., Android.)
In fact, it is already a folder, as in other OS'. The only difference is that its items are currently placed upon the "workspace's" background. But if have to do a click (or at least move the mouse to a screen edge) to access those, which is clearly the case most of the time, you could also have them anywhere else.

rvchari

January 25th, 2011, 04:33 AM

in a nutshell, till something new develops in unity to accomodate icons / folder shortcuts on desktop (visible on our workspace) we have to make do with 2 options available...
a) use a dock and create launchers and various shortcuts with customised icons and then make the dock invisible
b) check if the launched program can be defined to be kept in default left bar of unity to make it a launcher... is that posssible ? (havent given it a try)

Copper Bezel

January 25th, 2011, 05:19 AM

In fact, it is already a folder, as in other OS'. The only difference is that its items are currently placed upon the "workspace's" background. But if have to do a click (or at least move the mouse to a screen edge) to access those, which is clearly the case most of the time, you could also have them anywhere else.If I'm understanding you, I think that's what I was saying. I was saying that tt's really not that hard to imagine a DE where using the desktop as a folder in that sense - to think of it, UNR didn't - but expressing that it probably wouldn't have made sense to take that away in Unity, which doesn't seem to be the plan, regardless of Unity's present behavior on 10.10.

In a nutshell, till something new develops in unity to accomodate icons / folder shortcuts on desktop (visible on our workspace) we have to make do with 2 options available...
a) use a dock and create launchers and various shortcuts with customised icons and then make the dock invisible
b) check if the launched program can be defined to be kept in default left bar of unity to make it a launcher... is that posssible ? (havent given it a try)1. You can already use the desktop again for whatever you're putting on it in 11.04, or Unity 2D for that matter, which is just Gnome with the new panel.

2. I guess I misunderstood earlier, in that you're concerned about putting launchers on the desktop, out of my affinity for using it for files. Yes, I understand the technical contradiction in what I just said. Anyway, of course Unity's launcher panel can be customized, in exactly the same way as AWN, Cairo-Dock, or Windows 7, for that matter, by right-clicking a running app and pinning it.

rvchari

January 25th, 2011, 05:24 AM

it doesnt get pinned for all apps...
example i tried to pin safari (executed thru wine) to pin it. it said wine program loader and got pinned. when i clik on that launcher, nothing happens !!!!
so still some homework is pending !

User4519

February 6th, 2011, 02:40 PM

Welcome to KDE anno 2007, everyone! :)

That's when all of us KDE users were scratching our heads, looking at this wallpaper with nothing on it except a magic bean. Where the fudgies were our Desktop files?, we thought.

Years later, we've now come accustomed to thinking of the "desktop" as a folder, and the thing that remains after all windows have been minimized, as an "activity" or a "dashboard".

On this dashboard, we now have a folder widget, showing the contents of the "Desktop" folder (or any other folder(s) if you're so inclined).

It took a while to grow accustomed to, including the time it actually took to get a "folder widget" so we could get our files back on the "desktop", i.e. the workspace or dashboard or the whatchamacallit.

I think this is exactly the same thing we see happening here with unity. As someone else put it, the desktop is now "the wallpaper". It's an absolutely useless pretty background.

Given time, I'll bet we get a lot of widgets we can put on it, including a folder view widget to show the contents of the desktop folder. But until then, it's seriously frustrating that there's nowhere you can browse the contents of the desktop folder without opening up nautilus or a terminal window.

I mean, hey, fair enough, so the desktop is being revamped, but why the hell is the "Files & folder" launcher button not showing the Desktop folder then? That's just common sense.

I hope we're seeing more functionality when natty is ready, but so far it's not looking good. The 11.04 alpha 2 is looking exactly like 10.10, except most launchers (and the ubuntu logo button thing) show nothing, and the desktop crashes non-stop, mostly due to compiz-related issues it seems. I'm seriously worried that too much time is going into switching from mutter to compiz, and that the tons of obvious design problems with unity won't be addressed. I fail to see the importance to shift to compiz when functionality-wise so much work needs to be done. Who gives a crap about a desktop cube, if the basics aren't properly designed or functioning?

EgoGratis

February 7th, 2011, 08:30 PM

Yes but it was confirmed in this thread that Alpha 1 had files and folders on the desktop. So if that is true i guess in Natty Narwhal Unity will have files and folders on the desktop!

coffeecat

February 7th, 2011, 08:49 PM

Yes but it was confirmed in this thread that Alpha 1 had files and folders on the desktop. So if that is true i guess in Natty Narwhal Unity will have files and folders on the desktop!

And I have files and folders all over my fully-updated Natty Unity desktop. It's a right mess - my desktop, that is. :) Right-clicking on the desktop brings up the same menu as in classic gnome, including being able to make a launcher - which works.

DanielBus is mistaken in comparing this to the weird KDE 4 setup with its desktop that's not a desktop and having to use widgets (or is it plasma? :?) for everything.

Copper Bezel

February 7th, 2011, 09:01 PM

Well, weird or no, as he said, it's just that it's a "dashboard" rather than a traditional "desktop." I'm glad Unity is sticking with the desktop functionality, though - I've never made any real use of, for comparison, Gnome's Screenlets.

And yes, hovering over a "desktop icon" in KDE only to see it sprout a number of smaller, inscrutable icons at its perimeter was enough to turn me off the DE.

User4519

February 7th, 2011, 09:14 PM

Yes but it was confirmed in this thread that Alpha 1 had files and folders on the desktop. So if that is true i guess in Natty Narwhal Unity will have files and folders on the desktop!

Now that you mention it, I also had files and folders on the desktop in the daily build I tried the other day!

User4519

February 7th, 2011, 09:18 PM

And I have files and folders all over my fully-updated Natty Unity desktop. It's a right mess - my desktop, that is. :) Right-clicking on the desktop brings up the same menu as in classic gnome, including being able to make a launcher - which works.

Really? As in an icon on the launcher dock thing? If so, that's really cool. Is it at all usable on your setup, Natty, I mean? On my laptop I was completely unable to get anything to not crash. And the "ubuntu" icon thing opened just an empty "file thing" (sorry :) ) instead of all the apps and stuff like in maverick netbook.

DanielBus is mistaken in comparing this to the weird KDE 4 setup with its desktop that's not a desktop and having to use widgets (or is it plasma? :?) for everything.

Seems you're right! Although, I was actually hoping for it a little bit, as that's one thing that really rocks in KDE 4 (after four iterations, mind you ;) )

coffeecat

February 7th, 2011, 10:01 PM

Really? As in an icon on the launcher dock thing?

No, as a launcher on the desktop as in classic gnome. You add launchers to the dock by opening an application and then clicking on 'keep in launcher' after right-clicking on the dock - er, I mean launcher - icon. Too many launchers!

And the "ubuntu" icon thing opened just an empty "file thing" (sorry ) instead of all the apps and stuff like in maverick netbook.

It's still not fully implemented - I'm getting the empty black windowlet too; I think everyone is. It will work before the end of the development cycle. In the meantime I've created a temporary Nautilus "launcher" on the desktop which opens Nautilus in /usr/share/applications so that I can - um - launch little used apps. See my screenshot which is only a small part of my 24" screen.

I think Unity is coming on very well in Natty and is does make sense on a big monitor despite all the grumbling of the nay-sayers.

User4519

February 7th, 2011, 10:13 PM

No, as a launcher on the desktop as in classic gnome. You add launchers to the dock by opening an application and then clicking on 'keep in launcher' after right-clicking on the dock - er, I mean launcher - icon. Too many launchers!

Oooh, of course :D LOL, yeah, a rose by any other name...

I think Unity is coming on very well in Natty and is does make sense on a big monitor despite all the grumbling of the nay-sayers.

Couldn't agree more. I'm leaving behind KDE for this. What really got my motor running is how well the "notification area", or whatever we're supposed to call it now, integrates all the little things that one would use all the time. "Broadcast" is just genious.

I'm hoping for some more keyboard shortcuts to work (like show workspaces, which is awesome in the netbook edition), and then I'm hoping Compiz in natty won't f*** up everything, because my 1.3 GHz ULV laptop running mutter can play 720p youtube flash and 1080p mkv files perfectly, while my 3.1 GHZ desktop running Compiz can't play 320x240 mpeg-1 porn at more than 5 fps ;)