flouride in the news

[sdowney717]

finally they think it should be reduced, long past time for that.
my city Newport News, has a high level in the water.
you will find if you read the history of flouridation that accusations have been made it was a way for industry to get rid of
certain toxic wastes by diluting them into the water supply.
They promoted it as healthy benefit which has been seriously proved false.

http://www.foodconsumer.org/newsite/Non-food/Environment/50_reasons_to_oppose_fluoridation_0109111037.html

[mobilediesel]

finally they think it should be reduced, long past time for that.
my city Newport News, has a high level in the water.
you will find if you read the history of flouridation that accusations have been made it was a way for industry to get rid of
certain toxic wastes by diluting them into the water supply.
They promoted it as healthy benefit which has been seriously proved false.

http://www.foodconsumer.org/newsite/Non-food/Environment/50_reasons_to_oppose_fluoridation_0109111037.html

Dihydrogen monoxide causes far more harm than fluoride ever has or ever will.

[dh04000]

Dihydrogen monoxide causes far more harm than fluoride ever has or ever will.

As a scientist(biochemist) I hate it when I see crazies(most of the USA sadly) blaming fluoride and other safe things like vaccines on societies woes like autism. Autism happens, get over it. The world is not fair. Its a cruel place.

I do think its good for fluoride levels to be reduced to the lowest level that is "still effective". Less chemicals in your life is always good. We all use fluoridated toothpaste(and ect) anyway. While they are at it, they should get all of the non-EPA(non Safe Water Act) mandated chemicals out of the water too..... those are honestly a MUCH BUGGER issue than fluoride. Save some money by putting less expensive fluoride in the water, then spend the savings providing us with water with less industrial waste like plasticizers such as BPA.

Ok, rant's over.

[johnb820]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0NjEhF7mpS4/ScbLzVJFSxI/AAAAAAAAAnA/MVKZcTnPrLA/s320/General+Jack+Ripper.jpg

[zekopeko]

As a scientist(biochemist) I hate it when I see crazies(most of the USA sadly) blaming fluoride and other safe things like vaccines on societies woes like autism. Autism happens, get over it. The world is not fair. Its a cruel place.

I do think its good for fluoride levels to be reduced to the lowest level that is "still effective". Less chemicals in your life is always good. We all use fluoridated toothpaste(and ect) anyway. While they are at it, they should get all of the non-EPA(non Safe Water Act) mandated chemicals out of the water too..... those are honestly a MUCH BUGGER issue than fluoride. Save some money by putting less expensive fluoride in the water, then spend the savings providing us with water with less industrial waste like plasticizers such as BPA.

Ok, rant's over.

Ignore him. He has the signs of a conspiracy theorist.

[mobilediesel]

As a scientist(biochemist) I hate it when I see crazies(most of the USA sadly) blaming fluoride and other safe things like vaccines on societies woes like autism. Autism happens, get over it. The world is not fair. Its a cruel place.

I do think its good for fluoride levels to be reduced to the lowest level that is "still effective". Less chemicals in your life is always good. We all use fluoridated toothpaste(and ect) anyway. While they are at it, they should get all of the non-EPA(non Safe Water Act) mandated chemicals out of the water too..... those are honestly a MUCH BUGGER issue than fluoride. Save some money by putting less expensive fluoride in the water, then spend the savings providing us with water with less industrial waste like plasticizers such as BPA.

Ok, rant's over.

I totally agree. It would be quite different if there were actual, verifiable evidence of fluoride in the water causing problems. The only evidence I can find for fluoride toxicity is when someone eats a bunch of toothpaste. The fluoride didn't cause the stupidity in that case, it was already there before exposure to the fluoride. :D

[ratcheer]

Here is a link to recent, government-mandated review of the EPA fluoride standards. Several very negative fluoride effects on public health are noted.

http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=11571

Tim

[Lucradia]

Flourine and Flouride can also be bonded (With hydrogen) on-the-go in laser weapons. (search: Deuterium)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_fluoride_laser

It only works in the atmosphere though. To get a laser that does not need to be in the atmosphere to work:

Particle Accelerator + Hydrogen + Ionizer = NPB Weapon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_beam_weapon)

[chriswyatt]

I totally agree. It would be quite different if there were actual, verifiable evidence of fluoride in the water causing problems. The only evidence I can find for fluoride toxicity is when someone eats a bunch of toothpaste. The fluoride didn't cause the stupidity in that case, it was already there before exposure to the fluoride. :D

Damn, I shouldn't have eaten all those toothpaste sandwiches. :(

[dh04000]

Flourine and Flouride can also be bonded (With hydrogen) on-the-go in laser weapons. (search: Deuterium)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_fluoride_laser

It only works in the atmosphere though. To get a laser that does not need to be in the atmosphere to work:

Particle Accelerator + Hydrogen + Ionizer = NPB Weapon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_beam_weapon)


????? I'm very confused on what your talking about. Are you saying that our water supply is somehow "lasering" us? Please don't worry. Fluoride ions in our water is not "lasering" us. Fluorine hydrogen/dueterium fluorescence is a very safe. I have a couple of those in the HPLC at my work alone. Its just a really stable, really bright, and well documented light bulb.

[dh04000]

Here is a link to recent, government-mandated review of the EPA fluoride standards. Several very negative fluoride effects on public health are noted.

http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=11571

Tim


This is a book..... for sale..... If it's not peer reviewed journal article, then its not evidence. If its not posted in a peer reviewed journal then there is not a body of scientists/peers preventing the content of the book from being falsified, non-logical, or non-evidence supported. Ergo, not a source of evidence.

[mobilediesel]

Here is a link to recent, government-mandated review of the EPA fluoride standards. Several very negative fluoride effects on public health are noted.

http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=11571

Tim

I'll have to read more of that later. So far, though, the negative effects occur with very high doses of fluoride. Animal testing for chemical safety doesn't make any sense. The extreme doses given make ANYTHING toxic. For example: give someone a year's supply of pure water and have them drink all of it over the course of a month. They probably won't survive.

[dh04000]

I'll have to read more of that later. So far, though, the negative effects occur with very high doses of fluoride. Animal testing for chemical safety doesn't make any sense. The extreme doses given make ANYTHING toxic. For example: give someone a year's supply of pure water and have them drink all of it over the course of a month. They probably won't survive.

Thanks for checking some of those citations. I don't feel like driving to the office and signing into pubMed and looking myself.

[mobilediesel]

Thanks for checking some of those citations. I don't feel like driving to the office and signing into pubMed and looking myself.

You *can* look at a lot of it for free but it takes a lot of clicking to get each section on its own. and it randomly pops up a notice on how you can read it more easily after paying for a copy.

Even without reading all of it, if fluoride was as dangerous as the anti-fluoridation people say it is it would have been removed from all water supplies decades ago. Naturally-fluoridated water sources would have been sealed up, as well.

I feel sorry for the conspiracy nuts. I like being able to live in reality where the government isn't trying to kill us all.

[JDShu]

I know a dental student who has expressed several times his astonishment that people won't listen to him when they have a mouth full of cavities and he suggests drinking fluoride water. People always think they know better than the trained people :/

[dh04000]

I know a dental student who has expressed several times his astonishment that people won't listen to him when they have a mouth full of cavities and he suggests drinking fluoride water. People always think they know better than the trained people :/

I know exactly the feeling. I'm a biochemist, and I'm constantly trying to convince people that when products have the warning of possibly causing phenylketonurics, that its not a warning that it causes cancer, or some other horrible disease. Its a warning for people with PKU, because they might suspect that the product could be bad for them. Here's a summary of the PKU disorder.

"Phenylketonuria is a genetic metabolic disorder that results when the PKU gene is inherited from both parents. When babies are born in the United States, a heel stick blood test is done to test for various disorders - PKU is one of the disorders that is tested for. It is very rare, in the US an average of 1 in 15,000 babies is born with the disorder (this number varies from region to region). If a baby is tested positive for PKU at birth, a follow up test is done a few days later. Out of 500 babies which do test positive for PKU on the first test, on average only one will actually have the disorder.

So, what is PKU? What happens to people that have it?

People with PKU have a deficiency of an enzyme which is necessary for the proper metabolism of an amino acid called Phenylalanine (i.e., the component in diet soda included in the warning). Phenylalanine is an essential amino acid and it is found in nearly all foods which contain protein: meat (of all kinds), dairy products, nuts, beans, tofu... the list goes on and on. Additionally, phenylalanine is found in aspartame, the sweetener found in most diet soft drinks and sugar-free candies/gum - hence the need for the warning on the labels of these products. Those of us that have PKU must follow a strict "low protein" diet to avoid all food sources that have high phenylalanine content. To get adequate amounts of other amino acids found in protein (without the damaging phenylalanine), people with PKU also have to take a special formula which is usually in the form of a liquid beverage. "

For the rest of us, we can have all of the phenylalanine we want because its an essential aminoacid and its good for us.


I tell people this, usually saying its an allergy, because that is simpler to explain. But no one believes me.....

[handy]

I wonder why so many people have so little trust in "authority" these days?

[piquat]

Autism is 1 in 150 kids today. I certainly don't remember this when I was a kid (42). Maybe it was just misdiagnosed? Either way, less garbage in our food and water and we'll all be better off.

[piquat]

I know exactly the feeling. I'm a biochemist, and I'm constantly trying to convince people that when products have the warning of possibly causing phenylketonurics, that its not a warning that it causes cancer, or some other horrible disease. Its a warning for people with PKU, because they might suspect that the product could be bad for them. Here's a summary of the PKU disorder.

"Phenylketonuria is a genetic metabolic disorder that results when the PKU gene is inherited from both parents. When babies are born in the United States, a heel stick blood test is done to test for various disorders - PKU is one of the disorders that is tested for. It is very rare, in the US an average of 1 in 15,000 babies is born with the disorder (this number varies from region to region). If a baby is tested positive for PKU at birth, a follow up test is done a few days later. Out of 500 babies which do test positive for PKU on the first test, on average only one will actually have the disorder.

So, what is PKU? What happens to people that have it?

People with PKU have a deficiency of an enzyme which is necessary for the proper metabolism of an amino acid called Phenylalanine (i.e., the component in diet soda included in the warning). Phenylalanine is an essential amino acid and it is found in nearly all foods which contain protein: meat (of all kinds), dairy products, nuts, beans, tofu... the list goes on and on. Additionally, phenylalanine is found in aspartame, the sweetener found in most diet soft drinks and sugar-free candies/gum - hence the need for the warning on the labels of these products. Those of us that have PKU must follow a strict "low protein" diet to avoid all food sources that have high phenylalanine content. To get adequate amounts of other amino acids found in protein (without the damaging phenylalanine), people with PKU also have to take a special formula which is usually in the form of a liquid beverage. "

For the rest of us, we can have all of the phenylalanine we want because its an essential aminoacid and its good for us.


I tell people this, usually saying its an allergy, because that is simpler to explain. But no one believes me.....

LOL Ya know, I did the same thing when I first saw that. It was on the side of some yogurt so I put it back down and picked something else. Felt pretty stupid when I got home and read about it. Then... I wondered how many people would just put it back and "stay stupid". Haha, appearently a LOT of them!

[Ahava591]

This is a book..... for sale..... If it's not peer reviewed journal article, then its not evidence. If its not posted in a peer reviewed journal then there is not a body of scientists/peers preventing the content of the book from being falsified, non-logical, or non-evidence supported. Ergo, not a source of evidence.
Like the peer-reviewed journal with the "body of scientists," who prevented falsified, illogical and circumstantial evidence "proving," the curious theory that MMR vaccines cause autism?

[cascade9]

Great, dosing entire populations with a non-essential conmpound, with the dose governed only by thirst.


As a scientist(biochemist) I hate it when I see crazies(most of the USA sadly) blaming fluoride and other safe things like vaccines on societies woes like autism. Autism happens, get over it. The world is not fair. Its a cruel place.

I do think its good for fluoride levels to be reduced to the lowest level that is "still effective". Less chemicals in your life is always good. We all use fluoridated toothpaste(and ect) anyway. While they are at it, they should get all of the non-EPA(non Safe Water Act) mandated chemicals out of the water too..... those are honestly a MUCH BUGGER issue than fluoride. Save some money by putting less expensive fluoride in the water, then spend the savings providing us with water with less industrial waste like plasticizers such as BPA.

Ok, rant's over.

I can see your point, but sometimes its best to just forget the lunatic fringe. I'm not saying that flouride doesnt have a conenction with autism (I havent looked at any data), more than its not necessary to even bring up autism.

IMO this debate is similar to a totally different idea (much better researched by me). I dont believe that the pyramids were built by the egyptian 4th dynasty......that doesnt mean that they were built by aliens.

BTW, if you actually want to data on the relationship between flouride and tooth decay, that has been prepared by scientists, have a look and you'll find it. A lot of the negative studies are put together, or put online by anti-flouride groups, so they are automatically regarded as suspect in some quaters, no matter how valid or well prepared they are.


I know a dental student who has expressed several times his astonishment that people won't listen to him when they have a mouth full of cavities and he suggests drinking fluoride water. People always think they know better than the trained people :/

They could try brushing teeth, and/or stoping drinking and eating crap. That would have far more effect than some flouride in water....

[JDShu]

Like the peer-reviewed journal with the "body of scientists," who prevented falsified, illogical and circumstantial evidence "proving," the curious theory that MMR vaccines cause autism?

And now you know, don't you?

[JDShu]

They could try brushing teeth, and/or stoping drinking and eating crap. That would have far more effect than some flouride in water....

As would flossing and seeing the dentist twice a year :)

[mobilediesel]

Autism is 1 in 150 kids today. I certainly don't remember this when I was a kid (42). Maybe it was just misdiagnosed? Either way, less garbage in our food and water and we'll all be better off.

It's not "misdiagnosed" it's just diagnosed more. The revision of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders Third Edition in 1987 is the main cause of so many people being diagnosed with autism.

[Paqman]

Like the peer-reviewed journal with the "body of scientists," who prevented falsified, illogical and circumstantial evidence "proving," the curious theory that MMR vaccines cause autism?

The scientist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield) who published that report has since been struck off and the journal that published it (The Lancet) has retracted it. Once his claims were investigated more deeply it became obvious there was some seriously dodgy business going on. So i'd say the system seems to be working fine.

[dh04000]

Autism is 1 in 150 kids today. I certainly don't remember this when I was a kid (42). Maybe it was just misdiagnosed? Either way, less garbage in our food and water and we'll all be better off.


I have an uncle that was misdiagnosed. He was misdiagnosed as just being "slow" and "different". Til this day he is not very functional and lives off of government assistance.

[dh04000]

The scientist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield) who published that report has since been struck off and the journal that published it (The Lancet) has retracted it. Once his claims were investigated more deeply it became obvious there was some seriously dodgy business going on. So i'd say the system seems to be working fine.

The system works! He has had my medical license revoked, he career ruined, his name and character destroyed, his papers and appearances blacklisted from very major journal and conference. And to top it off, he might be facing jail time for abusing the children that were his test group!

After this paper scientists all around the world set up their own tests and found him wrong.

I think the system works.

Is there a system for journalism or any other field that finds lairs and punishes them so harshly? Its ok to make a bad thoery to be bad due to bad data. Every scientist should always be looking out for bad data, or a badly designed experiment (part of the journal peer review), but sometimes they get bad data anyway. But, when a scientist blantly lies for money and causes the death of hundreds of thousands of children due to the outbreak of measles, mumps, rubella, and pertussis among unvaccinaed children, there is HELL to pay!

We all most has measles and polio eradicated from the face of the earth, just like smallpox, but according to WHO, this incident has set us back 50 years!

I personally hope someone in jail that followed this lunatic that lost their child to one of these completely preventable diseases kills him.

[Sef]

Locked. Political.