Merge Mageia(Mandriva) and OpenSuse Communities/OS?

[dh04000]

OK, with Mandriva and OpenSuse's futures all in the air at the moment, I am worried that the two major KDE centered linux OS's are about to die. The loss of these two OS would be a tragedy for the linux community.

To remedy this problem, I've been brainstorming of a solution. I propose that the Mageia and Opensuse community developers merge their projects into one STRONG community OS. My reasoning is that if Attachmate doesn't want to continue Suse(its been predicted that this is the case), then Opensuse community needs somewhere to go. The same being said for Mandriva if it dives in the next dew years. Both need a safety net.

Merging them could be that safety net. Why merge these two OS? They are both KDE centered. They are both business centered, not hacker centered like Debian and Fedora. They both focus on a single configuration tool. They both use RPM. They are both smaller communities that could benefit from a large developer base. Allowing for a stronger OS in the end. If Suse and Mandriva survive, they could pull packages and new technologies/ideas from both, but if not, then who ever survives would be a good package source. Instead of one commercial source, such as Debain feeding Ubuntu, and Red Hat feeding Fedora, this OS could be Attachmate and Mandriva feeding it. Two sources. Could you imagine how powerful that could be?

Overall, I believe that this could be the best future for Mageia and OpenSuse.

What do you think? Who's here a Mandriva or OpenSuse user, would you support a combined OS?

Discuss!

[BrokenKingpin]

Attachmate has said nothing about dropping SuSE, so lets not jump to conclusions.

Also, Mageia was forked from Mandriva when everyone though Mandriva was going down, but has since been announced that Mandriva will be continuing (in some form anyway).

Each distro has it's own vision and I do not see the point of forcing the two to decide in one direction.

I think we need to see where each distro goes over the next year before any real decisions can be made.

[dh04000]

Attachmate has said nothing about dropping SuSE, so lets not jump to conclusions.

Also, Mageia was forked from Mandriva when everyone though Mandriva was going down, but has since been announced that Mandriva will be continuing (in some form anyway).

Each distro has it's own vision and I do not see the point of forcing the two to decide in one direction.

I think we need to see where each distro goes over the next year before any real decisions can be made.


Part of why I suggested it was because their vision is similar. Both want centralized configration, both want KDE, both are interested in laptop/netbook compatibility and instant-on environments.

Sounds similar to me. I didn't say they had to merge now. Things are "still up in the air". I was just interested if anyone else thought that it could be a good direction to go towards.

[kaldor]

Mandriva is kinda dying out. Mageia is NOT a community version of Mandriva; it's a fork.

Attachmate says they plan to start a separate company for SuSE.

[wobo]

While openSUSE and Mandriva and Mageia are desktop orientated Linux flavors and while all 3 are using RPM package management they still are totally different:

Mandriva is a commercial company, distributing their non-commercial Mandriva Linux through a development system called 'cooker' where employees and contributors are collaborating. Directions are given by the company management, so the development of the distribution is subject of company decisions.

openSUSE is a community generated distribution backed and reigned by a company - we still have to wait and see what will become of it.

Mageia.Org is a completely community based non-commercial association with a Community Board and Council (subject to elections). The distribution Mageia will be based on current Mandriva Linux but will not become "yet another Mandriva Linux". Differences will be visible in the first release, due April 2011.

Mandriva Linux, Mageia and openSUSE offer a central configuration/management system (yast and mcc) but there's a remarkable difference between the two concepts.

So, while there will surely be a certain degree of cooperation (as with all FOSS projects) I do not see the possibility of a merge of those three.

wobo
(ex Mandriva contractor, Mageia Founders Group)

[dh04000]

While openSUSE and Mandriva and Mageia are desktop orientated Linux flavors and while all 3 are using RPM package management they still are totally different:

Mandriva is a commercial company, distributing their non-commercial Mandriva Linux through a development system called 'cooker' where employees and contributors are collaborating. Directions are given by the company management, so the development of the distribution is subject of company decisions.

openSUSE is a community generated distribution backed and reigned by a company - we still have to wait and see what will become of it.

Mageia.Org is a completely community based non-commercial association with a Community Board and Council (subject to elections). The distribution Mageia will be based on current Mandriva Linux but will not become "yet another Mandriva Linux". Differences will be visible in the first release, due April 2011.

Mandriva Linux, Mageia and openSUSE offer a central configuration/management system (yast and mcc) but there's a remarkable difference between the two concepts.

So, while there will surely be a certain degree of cooperation (as with all FOSS projects) I do not see the possibility of a merge of those three.

wobo
(ex Mandriva contractor, Mageia Founders Group)


That's kind cool that I got Mandriva/Mageia developer's attention. So while I have you, would you mind answering/pondering some questions?

Does Mageia have a 12 point plan on how they their distro will be formed? Will you create your own user base, or pull off of mandriva's user base? Will you get packages and tech from Mandriva or will you make your own? Will you be completely agnostic from Mandriva such that when/if it dies you can continue functioning? Is your goal to be a 1st class distro, or a second class distro like Fubuntu and Mint are to their parents(related to the package and tech source)? Do you believe you even have the user base to allow your distro to grow to be strong and not just become a second class distro?

Thanks, as a Ubuntu and Mandriva user, I'm excited to here the answers. :)

[jcolyn]

OK, with Mandriva and OpenSuse's futures all in the air at the moment, I am worried that the two major KDE centered linux OS's are about to die. The loss of these two OS would be a tragedy for the linux community.

Who has said their futures are up in the air??

What makes you think they are dying??

[dh04000]

Who has said their futures are up in the air??

What makes you think they are dying??

Remember when Opensolaris was "up in the air"?

Nuff said.

[ilovelinux33467]

I am not convinced that openSUSE will die when Attachmate take over. Who knows - It might make openSUSE even better :D

[dh04000]

I am not convinced that openSUSE will die when Attachmate take over. Who knows - It might make openSUSE even better :D

I don't believe that Attachmate is going to be better for openSUSE, but thanks for the positive attitude. :)

[jcolyn]

Remember when Opensolaris was "up in the air"?

Nuff said.

Looks to me like Opensolaris is still available...

http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Main/downloads

I lot of distros have come and gone over the years but their demise was due mainly to lack of popularity...

I still don't understand where you get that Mandriva and Opensuse are "up in the air".. Show us where it is stated as such..

[ilovelinux33467]

Look at this:
http://www.attachmate.com/Press/PressReleases/nov-22-2010-SUSE.htm

From the article:


"The openSUSE project is an important part of the SUSE business,” commented Jeff Hawn, chairman and CEO of Attachmate Corporation. “As noted in the agreement announced today, Attachmate plans to operate SUSE as a stand-alone business unit after the transaction closes. If this transaction closes, then after closing, Attachmate Corporation anticipates no change to the relationship between the SUSE business and the openSUSE project as a result of this transaction.”


Mandriva and openSUSE are far from dead. They both have upcoming releases which I am looking forward to using both. openSUSE 11.4 will be released in March and Mandriva 2011 will be released in May.

[dh04000]

Looks to me like Opensolaris is still available...

http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Main/downloads

I lot of distros have come and gone over the years but their demise was due mainly to lack of popularity...

I still don't understand where you get that Mandriva and Opensuse are "up in the air".. Show us where it is stated as such..


Its hasn't been updated since July 2009. A year and a half without an update for a 6 month distro is death.

[dh04000]

Look at this:
http://www.attachmate.com/Press/PressReleases/nov-22-2010-SUSE.htm

From the article:


Mandriva and openSUSE are far from dead. They both have upcoming releases which I am looking forward to using both. openSUSE 11.4 will be released in March and Mandriva 2011 will be released in May.


This thread is a "what if" more than anything. I'm just saying that the commercial support for Mageia and OpenSUSE is "sick". That's a bad sign...

I just want to know what the people of Ubuntu forums think of my proposal. If Mandriva or Attachmate drop their distros', what could be done to save them? Would merging be a good path? Even if they don't die, both communities want to be "more independent" from their commercial support, even if they survive. Would merging be a way to grow "strong" enough in be more independent?

Discuss. Telling me that they aren't going to die is not discussing. The people who stayed during Katrina thought the levees weren't going to break. We have seen what refusing to think ahead has brought.

[jcolyn]

Its hasn't been updated since July 2009. A year and a half without an update for a 6 month distro is death.

It is still alive none the less. I never cared much for it anyhow..

When are you going to show us the proof that Mandriva and Opensuse is about to die..or are you going to keep sidestepping the issue??

[dh04000]

It is still alive none the less. I never cared much for it anyhow..

When are you going to show us the proof that Mandriva and Opensuse is about to die..or are you going to keep sidestepping the issue??

Reread what I have said so far. I have covered this multiple times.

[ilovelinux33467]

IMO not a good idea to merge them. openSUSE's YaST (Yet another Setup Tool) and MCC (Mandriva control center) are quite different from each other. At the moment both use RPM but I read that Mandriva will be switching to rpm5 soon and also their KDE implementations are quite different from each other. Even though they have some similarities they are also quite different from each other. Just my opinion

[dh04000]

IMO not a good idea to merge them. openSUSE's YaST (Yet another Setup Tool) and MCC (Mandriva control center) are quite different from each other. At the moment both use RPM but I read that Mandriva will be switching to rpm5 soon and also their KDE implementations are quite different from each other. Even though they have some similarities they are also quite different from each other. Just my opinion

And opinions are great. Thank you for being part of the discussion with me. That's all I asked for.

I don't know much about rpm's and what verions distro's use. Are they not backward compactible? Can they be upgraded from rpm4?(I assume the last verison is 4, I have no idea). Can a mixed rpm system run?

I know that PCLinuxOS uses packages from multiple OS, converting them to their package format. Maybe that could be done for a Mageia/OpenSUSE merger OS.

[unknownPoster]

We don't have enough tin foil hats for this thread. :P

[LowSky]

We don't have enough tin foil hats for this thread. :P

something tells my BYOTH is in effect.

by the way opensolaris became Illumos. when oracle decided to stop funding.

[jcolyn]

Reread what I have said so far. I have covered this multiple times.

The problem is you made insinuations that will cause others to go elsewhere and claim they heard these distros are dying out.

I suspect both have a good future without having to merge. I personally like both and have both installed on a couple of machines..

[jcolyn]

We don't have enough tin foil hats for this thread. :P

I don't see anybody getting insulted or stepped on.

Lively discussions are far better than dull uninteresting ones..they break the boredom..

[dh04000]

The problem is you made insinuations that will cause others to go elsewhere and claim they heard these distros are dying out.

I suspect both have a good future without having to merge. I personally like both and have both installed on a couple of machines..

I'm a Mandriva user myself. I hope that mandriva and OpenSUSE has a long and healthy future. I am just "nervous" about the current state of affairs for both projects, and think there should be some kinda of "plan" for both projects in case of the unimaginable.




I don't see anybody getting insulted or stepped on.

Lively discussions are far better than dull uninteresting ones..they break the boredom..


I wasn't trying to offend anyone, if I did, sorry.

[wobo]

That's kind cool that I got Mandriva/Mageia developer's attention. So while I have you, would you mind answering/pondering some questions?
I'm not a developer (whenever I meet a developer I make magic signs against evil forces). But I'll try to answer:

Does Mageia have a 12 point plan on how they their distro will be formed?
This one I can't answer, I have not read or heard about such a plan.

Will you create your own user base, or pull off of mandriva's user base?
Of course we will invite everybody who uses Linux to try Mageia and make his own choice. In other words: just like every other distribution we will pull off those users from everywhere who will like our distribution.
Will we use existing Mandriva user organisations (like my MandrivaUser.de)? That's up to those organisations and not under our control. The MandrivaUser.de community will support both distributions as long as possible.

Will you get packages and tech from Mandriva or will you make your own? Will you be completely agnostic from Mandriva such that when/if it dies you can continue functioning?
Yes, concerning the Mandriva software (like the draktools and MCC) we will import what we want at the start. Most of it was written/maintained by people who are now with Mageia anyway. After that there will be the same cooperation with Mandriva as with every other distribution or FOSS project. We will not depend on Mandriva, we will depend on Mageia.

Is your goal to be a 1st class distro, or a second class distro like Fubuntu and Mint are to their parents(related to the package and tech source)? Do you believe you even have the user base to allow your distro to grow to be strong and not just become a second class distro?
Well, I do not subscribe to this point of view with different classes. But as I wrote: for a start we will import from Mandriva what we need and use all other FOSS as all other distributions do. No, we will not depend on Mandriva like Kubuntu depends on Ubuntu, or even Ubuntu depends on Debina if that is what you mean.
We are Mageia, resistance is futile! :)

About cooperation:

You may not know it but this month there will be a meeting of developers of openSUSE, Mandriva, Mageia, Fedora, Debian and Ubuntu at SUSE headquarters in Nürnberg, Germany. Topics are:

* agree on a common UI to install applications
* agree on what metadata to use, how to generate it, where to host it
* agree on a protocol to use to provide non-static metadata (featured apps, ratings, comments, etc.)
* decide what metadata can be shared between distros, and what should stay distro-specific (eg: do we want user comments to be shared?)This is not about merging distributions and there will surely be different views from different distributions, but it is also an attempt to exchange knowledge, experience and ideas to make life easier for Linux users.

Feel free to look at http://wiki.mageia.org for more information about Mageia's development/plans.

[dh04000]

Thanks for responding. That was very informative. :)