Gave it my best....I'll pass!

[jeepmanjr]

Yeah...I know. Yer a hard-core Ubuntu user. All is good in the world.

I wish I could say the same.

Now, don't get me wrong. Ubuntu is the closest thing I've found to OS nirvana. But just not yet. Automatix? Thank you Arnieboy...without you Ubuntu would be just another free Suse, Mandriva or Fadora. Automatix has done more than it's fair share in hooking up the masses. My hat is off to you sir.

My issue in a nutshell? I'm tired of researching, tweeking, searching, trying and retrying... I'm tired of dinking around with software to make it work. I'm tired of reading advise on how to get a 32-bit app to run under wine. I'm tired of not finding drivers for my hardware. I'm tired of the frustrations resulting from my "multi-OS" home network. I could go on...

Ubuntu, and many other distributions, are great alternatives to Windows. There are so many advantages to making the change. But there are so many disadvantages as well.

In closing I will give my opinion, as worthless as it may be. All Linux distros have a way to go. In it's current state, open source software can not replace Windows and it's "one size fits all" architecture. In my opinion, until Linux becomes more user friendly, and can accomplish ALL of the same feats as Windows without hours of tweeking and "geekdom", it will remain the OS of choice to only a small handfull of enthusiasts.

OK....Have your way with me.....[-o<

[Sef]

In closing I will give my opinion, as worthless as it may be. All Linux distros have a way to go. In it's current state, open source software can not replace Windows and it's "one size fits all" architecture. In my opinion, until Linux becomes more user friendly, and can accomplish ALL of the same feats as Windows without hours of tweeking and "geekdom", it will remain the OS of choice to only a small handfull of enthusiasts.

1) Your opinion is not worthless.

2a) Have you ever installed XP from scratch?

2b) Lots of tweaking to do. Takes me about 2 hours or less to do all the tweaking I need to do. XP is 2 hours is about the same.

3) What in your opinion is Linux lacking?

4) Ubuntu is about pushing enter 4 times to install, and input a few necessities: computer name, user name, and password.

5) Linux is becoming bigger and bigger on the desktop. In some of the BRICK countries, it will likely overtake Microsoft in the next 5-10 years. (BRICK = Brazil, Russia, India, China, Korea.)

6) Linux is about choice. If your choice is Windows that is fine with us who care about choice.

[mjm115]

Well I can certainly understand your frustrations. Linux does have a long way to go, but it has also come a long way. Linux is not a replacement for Windows. It is an alternative. The same way a motorcycle is not a replacement for a car, it's an alternative.

Many people prefer the tweaking and adjustments that they have to make to get their distro the way they like it. They prefer the control. I must admit that that's why I use Linux. I don't have to worry about licensing and validation and not being able to change something because its locked down. I control my system and when I want to change something, I change it. Windows in its "one-size fits all" scheme tells YOU what YOU can do with YOUR computer. Linux does not do this.

Linux is about CHOICE. You can choose to use it. You can choose not to. That's the beauty of it. For you to ask for Linux to accomplish "ALL of the same feats as Windows" is saying "I want my motorcycle to have four wheels instead of two; I don't think the brakes should be on the handles, they should be by my feet like a car. I shouldn't have to wear a helmet, I think a motorcycle should come with a roof." Linux was never intended to be a replacement. It IS an alternative.

I hope that as you use your Windows PC and you install your firewall and your antivirus software and ad-ware removal tools, along with making sure that you have a validated copy so that you can receive security updates, you don't get frustrated.

[Qrk]

Sorry it didn't work. Be sure to try Ubuntu or another Linux again in a few years. I've been amazed at the advances made in the three years I've been using Linux.

If we improve as much in the next three years as Linux has in the last three, by 2009 we will have cured cancer, replaced hydrocarbons with solar power and acheived peace in the middle east.

[briancurtin]

I'm tired of researching, tweeking, searching, trying and retrying... I'm tired of dinking around with software to make it work. I'm tired of reading advise on how to get a 32-bit app to run under wine. I'm tired of not finding drivers for my hardware. I'm tired of the frustrations resulting from my "multi-OS" home network. I could go on..
linux is not for you then

[benplaut]

Before you go back to windows, give mac a try...

it really goes along the 'just works' agenda...

[aysiu]

It sounds to me as if you're not coming to Ubuntu for Ubuntu but rather trying to fit Ubuntu into your Windows life. Think about it.
My issue in a nutshell? I'm tired of researching, tweeking, searching, trying and retrying... I'm tired of dinking around with software to make it work. Use software you can install from the repositories
I'm tired of reading advise on how to get a 32-bit app to run under wine. Use native Linux applications instead of Windows ones in Linux.
I'm tired of not finding drivers for my hardware. Buy hardware with Linux in mind or get a Linux-preloaded computer.
I'm tired of the frustrations resulting from my "multi-OS" home network. Use just Linux.

Now I know what you're thinking: You're on crack. I don't want to use just software from the repositories. I need my Windows applications, and I've already bought my hardware for Windows.

See? That's my point exactly. You're coming at it based on what you already have and are used to and trying to get Ubuntu to fit into that.

You'd be experiencing the exact same problems if you'd gotten used to Ubuntu and Ubuntu's applications (especially the ones that had not yet been ported to Windows) and had bought a System 76 computer (http://www.system76.com) and tried to install Windows XP on it.

If what you have is sufficient, why change? But if you're going to change, really change and give it a fair shake.

[not28]

Hey, that System 76 is a cool site. I'd like to get one of those Koala Minis...

[Bradley17]

1) Your opinion is not worthless.

2a) Have you ever installed XP from scratch?

2b) Lots of tweaking to do. Takes me about 2 hours or less to do all the tweaking I need to do. XP is 2 hours is about the same.

3) What in your opinion is Linux lacking?

4) Ubuntu is about pushing enter 4 times to install, and input a few necessities: computer name, user name, and password.

5) Linux is becoming bigger and bigger on the desktop. In some of the BRICK countries, it will likely overtake Microsoft in the next 5-10 years. (BRICK = Brazil, Russia, India, China, Korea.)

6) Linux is about choice. If your choice is Windows that is fine with us who care about choice.


Good points, however windows xp and ubuntu are practically the same to install very easy, If you can use the keyboard that is rofl. However tweaking xp in my opinion is much quicker than linux.

-Change to windows 2000 settings.if not that change start bar to silver and change start menu to classic. Followed by small registry tinks in xp home or editing security polices in xp pro. to secure logon. then show hidden files and folders in folderoptions, then uncheck the default hide known extensions. (which is MAJORLY important). And finally add a second user account with limit privilages, Job DONE! .... 5-15mins work.

Personally i love linux, i hate gnome for one reason im a windows user, i prefer it more as a gui. Terminal is gr8 for installing stuf and day to day running of stuf. I only use ubuntu for Apache2, php5, mysql, phpmyadmin, So basically a webserver, to test development websites that im creating. So no need for gnome at all (And generally the reason i use linux is cause its more stable, altho then again i dont have any problems with XP PRO either,Generally both run ok when setup properly.

[curuxz]

5) Linux is becoming bigger and bigger on the desktop. In some of the BRICK countries, it will likely overtake Microsoft in the next 5-10 years. (BRICK = Brazil, Russia, India, China, Korea.)

Is the a cunning attempt to make a new acronym? ;) (zero references to this term BRICK in any other website) Seems a really odd grouping.

[stoeptegel]

I feel sorry it didn't worked out for you jeepmanjr.
Linux as it is today might just not fit you, which is a pitty, but you shouldn't care too much, every person is different right?

Take care and feel free to try again when you like to.

[Sushi]

Now, don't get me wrong. Ubuntu is the closest thing I've found to OS nirvana.

So I assume that the other OS'es are even worse then?


My issue in a nutshell? I'm tired of researching, tweeking, searching, trying and retrying... I'm tired of dinking around with software to make it work.

Hmmmm, on my machine, things do just work


I'm tired of reading advise on how to get a 32-bit app to run under wine.

I assume you have a AMD64-system? The best solution to make 32bit foolproof? Run 32bit system. I have Athlon64-system, but my Ubuntu is 32bits. 64bits wouldn't really bring anything compelling to the table (at this point at least).


In my opinion, until Linux becomes more user friendly, and can accomplish ALL of the same feats as Windows without hours of tweeking and "geekdom", it will remain the OS of choice to only a small handfull of enthusiasts.

IMO, it can already do that. Windows keeps on getting on my way, Linux does not. There might be occasional piece of hardware that does not work with Linux, but I don't blame Linux for that, I blame the hardware-manufacturer.

[OffHand]

4 GB is enough for a clean install. At least it should be.

[nocturn]

This is another "post and run" thread.

The poster puts a vague complaint about Linux not being ready and never explains why...

I never get these.

[BoyOfDestiny]

This is another "post and run" thread.

The poster puts a vague complaint about Linux not being ready and never explains why...

I never get these.

I hate to say it, but I've heard that companies pay users to sign up on forums just for that purpose. Just paid shills.

[auroraborealis]

Or someone's term paper.

[ComplexNumber]

I hate to say it, but I've heard that companies pay users to sign up on forums just for that purpose. Just paid shills. i don't suppose you have any links to this claim? would be interesting to read about, because i'm sure it undoubtably does happen.

[BoyOfDestiny]

i don't suppose you have any links to this claim? would be interesting to read about, because i'm sure it undoubtably does happen.

Apart from seeing it happen on groklaw...

This is the only other place I'd read of something similar.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/2006/02/01

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060208.gtplugged08/BNStory/Technology/AtPlay

[jeepmanjr]

Chill out!!! No one paid me to say anything...Geez, I wish they had! Some really idiotic comments for sure. Pretty typical of many responses here. As for the legitimate posts....

Here's some issues for you: Google Earth, my Dell wireless print server, Dell printer drivers, my Nova satellite tracking utility, my Ham Radio Deluxe software and my Labjack AZ/EL controller interface drivers. I'm talking fully-functional applications and utilities. If you have the majic wand, hey, waive it in my direction.

I love Ubuntu, as do the rest of you, so don't go getting sand in your cracks! Ubuntu works for a great many people most of the time, but no OS is a catch-all, do-all. If I can't run the software I need under Ubuntu, what other choice do I have? This is not about checking email and looking at porno after mama goes to work. It's about application specifics. It's about needing a utility that does NOT run under Linux no matter how much you screw around with Wine.

No problems with Ubuntu? It just works? Not down with 32-bit apps? Nobody's fooling nobody here! Revisit the forums, there are just as many problems and unsolvable (if not more) issues here than anywhere else. That's one of the main reasons this forum even exists!

My original post was not intended to start another comparison between Windows and Linux. It was to share my experience, and the problems I face with Linux. I've ran Ubuntu for nearly six months and my decision is to remove it, at least for the time being. I totally understand and respect what open-source and community software represent. I also understand there is no totally free lunch, be it commercial software or just your time.

If some folks can't see or understand my reasoning...oh well!! I believe the more sensible readers will see this as a common problem among those wanting to make the switch. I've read it many times, until Linux works for most everyone, most everyone will not be using it!

[BoyOfDestiny]

Chill out!!! No one paid me to say anything...Geez, I wish they had! Some really idiotic comments for sure. Pretty typical of many responses here. As for the legitimate posts....

Here's some issues for you: Google Earth, my Dell wireless print server, Dell printer drivers, my Nova satellite tracking utility, my Ham Radio Deluxe software and my Labjack AZ/EL controller interface drivers. I'm talking fully-functional applications and utilities. If you have the majic wand, hey, waive it in my direction.

I love Ubuntu, as do the rest of you, so don't go getting sand in your cracks! Ubuntu works for a great many people most of the time, but no OS is a catch-all, do-all. If I can't run the software I need under Ubuntu, what other choice do I have? This is not about checking email and looking at porno after mama goes to work. It's about application specifics. It's about needing a utility that does NOT run under Linux no matter how much you screw around with Wine.

No problems with Ubuntu? It just works? Not down with 32-bit apps? Nobody's fooling nobody here! Revisit the forums, there are just as many problems and unsolvable (if not more) issues here than anywhere else. That's one of the main reasons this forum even exists!

My original post was not intended to start another comparison between Windows and Linux. It was to share my experience, and the problems I face with Linux. I've ran Ubuntu for nearly six months and my decision is to remove it, at least for the time being. I totally understand and respect what open-source and community software represent. I also understand there is no totally free lunch, be it commercial software or just your time.

If some folks can't see or understand my reasoning...oh well!! I believe the more sensible readers will see this as a common problem among those wanting to make the switch. I've read it many times, until Linux works for most everyone, most everyone will not be using it!

Relax too :)

http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=959332&postcount=16

I think we all were referring to this post. With nocturn's comment of posts like that being common (where there is no follow up) reminded me of what happens on groklaw (shills posting). Just speculation is all. Hard to tell on the net, isn't it? Sorry if that's idiotic and I apologize if you found it offensive. However, it doesn't change the fact that things like that happen.

As for "most everyone" some of your issues don't seem common (ham radio, satellite tracking..?). Well anyway, use what you like. Maybe give Ubuntu or other Linux distros a try again later. The things you require may be supported eventually.

[Sushi]

Here's some issues for you: Google Earth

Complain to Google. If they decide to not port their software to Linux, there's wery little Ubuntu (or anyone else for that matter) could do.


my Dell wireless print server, Dell printer drivers, my Nova satellite tracking utility, my Ham Radio Deluxe software and my Labjack AZ/EL controller interface drivers. I'm talking fully-functional applications and utilities.

Seems to me that those companies have not written Linux-drivers and/or ported their software to Linux. Complain to them.


If I can't run the software I need under Ubuntu, what other choice do I have?

Yep, you are right here. Use the best tool for the job.


This is not about checking email and looking at porno after mama goes to work. It's about application specifics. It's about needing a utility that does NOT run under Linux no matter how much you screw around with Wine.

In case of those apps, you need to tell the makers of the software to port it to Linux. The problem is due to them.


No problems with Ubuntu? It just works? Not down with 32-bit apps? Nobody's fooling nobody here! Revisit the forums, there are just as many problems and unsolvable (if not more) issues here than anywhere else. That's one of the main reasons this forum even exists!

I have visited Windows-forums. And I have visited Mac-forums. And guess what? Those forums are FULL of people asking for help because they are having problems! Ubuntu (or Linux in general) is NOT problem-free. I dare you to find me a piece of software that is problem-free. Hint: it does not exist.

That said, my system is working as well as you could expect it to work.No major problems and I can do my stuff with little problems.

And about those 32/64bit apps.... That one really boils down to binaries. Linux-software (as in, free/open-source software) work just fine in both 32bit and 64bits. The problem are those companies who do not port their proprietary software to other platforms that 32bit Intel (Macromedia, I'm looking at you!!!). Again: it's not as much Linux-problem, as it is a problem with companies that do not support other architectures. All the more reason to use free software.

That said, the "bitness"-problem can be fixed by running 32bit OS. If you have AMD64-machine, you CAN run 32bit OS just fine. And all those 32bit binaries will "just work". I assume that you do not need 4+GB of RAM ;)?

[helpme]

Ubuntu works for a great many people most of the time, but no OS is a catch-all, do-all. If I can't run the software I need under Ubuntu, what other choice do I have? This is not about checking email and looking at porno after mama goes to work. It's about application specifics. It's about needing a utility that does NOT run under Linux no matter how much you screw around with Wine.

That's a very legitimate point. Why didn't you bring it up in your first post?


Not down with 32-bit apps?

As someone else already said, running a 64bit version of Ubuntu in an environment where it doesn't give you any advantages but will only cause a lot of problems is simply idiotic. I gather you don't run the terrible 64bit WinXP, so why do you run the 64bit Ubuntu version?



It was to share my experience, and the problems I face with Linux.

But you didn't.
You simply acted as is Linux automatically means constant tinkering and tweaking for everyone, proclaimed that you got tired of it and told us you would leave. How's that sharing your experiences and problems?



I've read it many times, until Linux works for most everyone, most everyone will not be using it!
Yes, because your Ham radio deluxe software didn't work sure means that Linux in general doesn't work for most people. Impressive logic here my friend...

[not28]

Yes, because your Ham radio deluxe software didn't work sure means that Linux in general doesn't work for most people. Impressive logic here my friend...
Umm, that's a fallacy. He gave several examples and you picked the most obscure one.

[helpme]

Umm, that's a fallacy. He gave several examples and you picked the most obscure one.
Sigh, no, it's not a fallacy. My point was that just because he has problems this doesn't mean that most people will also have problems. To emphasize this point I took the most obscure example, which is not a fallacy, but something called rhetoric.

[htinn]

Wow. The OP is not only a flame bait, it is arrogant, childish and spiteful. All with a nice glossy sheen of self-righteous and defensive hubris. All of this begs the question:

Why should I care?

[AndyCooll]

However tweaking xp in my opinion is much quicker than linux.

-Change to windows 2000 settings.if not that change start bar to silver and change start menu to classic. Followed by small registry tinks in xp home or editing security polices in xp pro. to secure logon. then show hidden files and folders in folderoptions, then uncheck the default hide known extensions. (which is MAJORLY important). And finally add a second user account with limit privilages, Job DONE! .... 5-15mins work.

Tweaking Linux only takes me 5 minutes too, add additional users, edit fstab, hosts and networks ...job done. What takes time with XP/2000 (just as it then does with Linux) is installing extra software. When calculating XP installation times they are missing off the extras that make it the XP system they use...install Office, install Photoshop, install anti-virus, install firewall, install anti-spyware, change the web-browser homepage etc etc. People say XP installation is quicker than Linux ...it ain't necessarily so.

:cool:

[zubrug]

You may want to try Linspire, it is the windows of linux, costs twenty bucks though. They are making a free version as I write this.
I felt exactly the same way, linspire was easy, then I graduated.

[PapaWiskas]

I love Ubuntu, as do the rest of you, so don't go getting sand in your cracks!

That was my favorite part of this thread....LMAO.

[zenwhen]

This is troll thread with a flame-bait closing sentence. Nothing more, nothing less. We have had a million threads posted with this same point. I am starting to think we need a "Good Bye!" forum for people to post these things in.

If you have a problem, you file a bug, you email a developer, and you get involved. This is free software. This is a community effort. It comes with the territory. You realized it wasn’t for you. We all know that Linux is not for everyone.

You told us nothing we did not know and did so while making it clear that you wanted reactionary posters to flame you.

Two thumbs down. Try to conceal your intentions better next time. Too many people saw right through you.

[poofyhairguy]

If I can't run the software I need under Ubuntu, what other choice do I have?

A few.

1. Dual boot. Just use Windows for those few things.

2. Get a new computer (better or worse than the one you have) and put Windows on it. Thats what I did- I have a machine just for when I need Windows. Poor thing hasn't been touched in months....

[jason.b.c]

. Poor thing hasn't been touched in months....

Dirty rotten computer neglecter.;) [-(

[vipernicus]

A few.

1. Dual boot. Just use Windows for those few things.

2. Get a new computer (better or worse than the one you have) and put Windows on it. Thats what I did- I have a machine just for when I need Windows. Poor thing hasn't been touched in months....

Telling someone to buy a new computer to run Linux is ridiculous. Honestly, I believe we would all be in his shoes if there was a program or a piece of hardware that we needed to run, that Linux had either no support for, or no alternatives. It's almost like telling someone who needs a Kidney transplant that dialisis is just as good, and making them feel bad for wanting one.

[GreyFox503]

Hello! My name is Mike and I'm a recovering Windows-holic

Looks like you've just had a relapse.

[poofyhairguy]

Telling someone to buy a new computer to run Linux is ridiculous.

Thats why I mentioned dual boot first. But its not that bad to get a new computer - I recently bought a $50 Pentium 3 class computer just for Windows use.

[briancurtin]

This is not about checking email and looking at porno after mama goes to work. It's about application specifics.
im going to use that line next time im in a meeting

[poofyhairguy]

Dirty rotten computer neglecter.;) [-(

I know. I feel bad. I might just give up on the few Windows things I do and put Gentoo on there.

[warp99]

All you need is to dual-boot or a virtual windows session, then work on the ubuntu side one problem at a time. Don't attempt to resolve all of the support issues at once because you will BURN OUT. Once you figured out how to run your hardware, share it with the community.

Ubuntu is not just another distro. Ubuntu is about people. :cool:

[aysiu]

This is troll thread with a flame-bait closing sentence. Nothing more, nothing less. We have had a million threads posted with this same point. I am starting to think we need a "Good Bye!" forum for people to post these things in. I was thinking the same thing. After all, we have a Ubuntu Testimonials section. Why not have a "Goodbye! I'm going back to Windows section"?

I'd love to have one section just for these threads:
i lost the war (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=158759)
Linux is NOT ready for the desktop!!! Sorry folks. (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=109174)
Very Dissapointed in Linux yet again.:( (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=57706)
Linux still needs to be more user friendly to convert Win users (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=58786)
Open thoughts about Linux (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=53846)
ubuntu: not ready for prime time (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=38710)

[briancurtin]

we shouldnt even give them that much. troll threads should just be deleted, not closed, deleted.

[cvcaelen]

to think we need a "Good Bye!" forum for people to post these things in.

I second that :)

Christiaan

[Iandefor]

My issue in a nutshell? I'm tired of researching, tweeking, searching, trying and retrying... I'm tired of dinking around with software to make it work. I'm tired of reading advise on how to get a 32-bit app to run under wine. I'm tired of not finding drivers for my hardware. I'm tired of the frustrations resulting from my "multi-OS" home network. I could go on... I hear ya! Linux, as it is, tends to require more out of the box tweaking than Windows. I know there are people on the forums who will disagree. And I can live with disagreement :). It happens with subjective experience.

For me, the tweaking isn't so bad because I know what I need to tweak, and I slog through an individual tweak in a few minutes if it's being particularly nasty. But I agree, it gets tiring.

Then again, for me, there are enough benefits to Ubuntu to keep me. For one, I'm a huge eyecandy nerd, and Linux right now has some pretty fun stuff in that area. I prefer OSS to closed source, so in that arena, Ubuntu fits me better. I love the ability to customize the hell out of my computer, which is easier in Linux than Windows.

For a lot of people, those things aren't so important, and that's fine. I'm not gonna freak out if they decide they want to use Windows because they find it to be easier for them, or they're more interested in just hitting the damn button and typing their letter :). You can get the same experience in Linux, for sure, but if a person's more comfortable with Windows, well... my zealotry's burned out. I won't push it :).

[helpme]

I hear ya! Linux, as it is, tends to require more out of the box tweaking than Windows. I know there are people on the forums who will disagree. And I can live with disagreement :). It happens with subjective experience.

As I'm one of the people who disagree, could I ask you to be more specific?

In my experience setting up for example Ubuntu is a lot less work than setting up Windows. All I have to do is install it, which gives me a working system with most apps I'd ever need. After that I usually install a few programs that I use that are not in the default install, install the missing multi-media stuff, which takes about 5 minutes and off I go.
A working system that just works and doesn't require any further tweaking to keep it going.

So no, I really don't understand what you are talking about.

[Iandefor]

As I'm one of the people who disagree, could I ask you to be more specific?

In my experience setting up for example Ubuntu is a lot less work than setting up Windows. All I have to do is install it, which gives me a working system with most apps I'd ever need. After that I usually install a few programs that I use that are not in the default install, install the missing multi-media stuff, which takes about 5 minutes and off I go.
A working system that just works and doesn't require any further tweaking to keep it going.

So no, I really don't understand what you are talking about. Oh, ok :). I think it must be my hardware, which tends to be the most annoying to configure (For some reason, after every software update, Ubuntu believes I'm using some weird sound card I've never heard of and absolutely do not own), and the fact that I'm using Dapper with Xgl/Compiz :). The extra tweaking I experience is probably just a part of working around the rough edges of beta software. Biased opinion strikes again!

[aysiu]

I'm with helpme on this one.

[R]equires more tweaking? Hardly. Allows for more tweaking? Sure. I haven't been required to tweak a whole lot. I install the newest Firefox and Thunderbird and add in Flash plugins and MP3 codecs, and I'm up and running.

In Windows, I need Firefox, Thunderbird, Flash, and iTunes, too. How is that any different?

[helpme]

Oh, ok :). I think it must be my hardware, which tends to be the most annoying to configure, and the fact that I'm using Dapper with Xgl/Compiz :). The extra tweaking I experience is probably just a part of working around the rough edges of beta software. Biased opinion strikes again!
Ah, I see. But that's a totally different ballgame, isn't it?
Running a distribution that's in beta with some unsupported alpha software thrown in for good messure of course means you'll have to do some tweaking, but that doesn't mean that Linux in general needs much tweaking.

[Iandefor]

I'm with helpme on this one.

[R]equires more tweaking? Hardly. Allows for more tweaking? Sure. I haven't been required to tweak a whole lot. I install the newest Firefox and Thunderbird and add in Flash plugins and MP3 codecs, and I'm up and running.

In Windows, I need Firefox, Thunderbird, Flash, and iTunes, too. How is that any different?Note the fact that I'm using beta software, and thus my opinion stated above isn't necessarily representative of the relative need to tweak Breezy. I neglected to think about that before posting. My bad.

Also, even in Breezy, I tended to find that more tweaking was necessary. It's just one of those YMMV things, I guess.

Just out of curiosity, what's with the bolded "Requires" with the R in brackets?

[aysiu]

Just out of curiosity, what's with the bolded "Requires" with the R in brackets? I don't know. I'm tired.

[AndyCooll]

I think this "tweaking" thing can be misleading. People often consider "Linux" to require more effort because it's often the first time they've installed it and they have to think about it. They forget that the first time they installed XP (if they ever did) they probably had to think a fair bit about that too!

On a level playing field, the "tweaking" time and effort probably isn't' too dissimilar. As Iandefor points out (even for his considerably customised box) the tweaking doesn't take very long now that he's as familiar with his Ubuntu box. Just the same as those who are familiar with their XP's don't consider that needs much tweaking.

:cool:

[paulvandenberg]

I think a lot of the issues with Linux is that most drivers need to be reverse engineered. The problem isn't with Linux, it is with hardware manufacturers. They need to be encouraged to support Linux. However, it is 2 edged sword. They won't produce more drivers until they see more demand. But, there won't be more demand until we see more drivers. In the mean time, FOSS has done a phenomenal job in reverse engineering drivers for a lot of hardware.

As for myself, I tend to stick with main stream hardware, like Compaqs, HPs and IBMs. Have had very few problems with those. I buy PCs that are a couple of years old, ususally off-lease.

My 2 cents.....Paul

[Iandefor]

I think a lot of the issues with Linux is that most drivers need to be reverse engineered. The problem isn't with Linux, it is with hardware manufacturers. They need to be encouraged to support Linux. However, it is 2 edged sword. They won't produce more drivers until they see more demand. But, there won't be more demand until we see more drivers. In the mean time, FOSS has done a phenomenal job in reverse engineering drivers for a lot of hardware.

As for myself, I tend to stick with main stream hardware, like Compaqs, HPs and IBMs. Have had very few problems with those. I buy PCs that are a couple of years old, ususally off-lease.

My 2 cents.....Paul A lot of the issues come from hardware, this is true, but I also find that there's also tweaking just in the department of the way the software is set up. I only have a monitor resolution of 1024x768, and in order to increase the total usable window area, I find I have to get rid of one of the two panels that come by default. Little things like that. Oh, and I hate Evolution, since it's a gigantic resource hog and it tends to start up any time I click a link that happens to be a mailto address (Happens occasionally). I uninstall it as soon as possible, and go with something like Syplheed, which I find easier to use and is much less of a resource hog.

[TeeAhr1]

As I'm one of the people who disagree, could I ask you to be more specific?

In my experience setting up for example Ubuntu is a lot less work than setting up Windows. All I have to do is install it, which gives me a working system with most apps I'd ever need. After that I usually install a few programs that I use that are not in the default install, install the missing multi-media stuff, which takes about 5 minutes and off I go.
A working system that just works and doesn't require any further tweaking to keep it going.

So no, I really don't understand what you are talking about.
No, I'm with Iandfor. Not that I'd say more tweaking, but certainly as much. And I'm not talking about beta stuff or weird specific apps from god-knows-where, I'm talking about the crappy version of Firefox that comes with Breezy, the outdated version of OpenOffice, installing Gnumeric and Abiword so I don't have to use OpenOffice unless I really have to (because it's a slow, bloated dog on my machine), setting up Nautilus to behave properly, convincing the firewall that it really does want to let you open ports, etc., etc. Yes, I've gotten to the point where I can whip through that stuff fairly quickly, as, I'm sure, have most of the people in this thread, but it exists, and it's misleading to state otherwise.

[Bradley17]

Tweaking Linux only takes me 5 minutes too, add additional users, edit fstab, hosts and networks ...job done. What takes time with XP/2000 (just as it then does with Linux) is installing extra software. When calculating XP installation times they are missing off the extras that make it the XP system they use...install Office, install Photoshop, install anti-virus, install firewall, install anti-spyware, change the web-browser homepage etc etc. People say XP installation is quicker than Linux ...it ain't necessarily so.

:cool:


Tbh i completely agree, i believe people was make context to the fact settings up the desktop with loads of **** that isnt nesscary, like "rounded toolbars" and annoying "3d clocks" i mean wtf.

[helpme]

No, I'm with Iandfor. Not that I'd say more tweaking, but certainly as much. And I'm not talking about beta stuff or weird specific apps from god-knows-where, I'm talking about the crappy version of Firefox that comes with Breezy, the outdated version of OpenOffice, installing Gnumeric and Abiword so I don't have to use OpenOffice unless I really have to (because it's a slow, bloated dog on my machine), setting up Nautilus to behave properly, convincing the firewall that it really does want to let you open ports, etc., etc. Yes, I've gotten to the point where I can whip through that stuff fairly quickly, as, I'm sure, have most of the people in this thread, but it exists, and it's misleading to state otherwise.
Ehm, I never claimed Ubuntu did everything for everyone in every conceivable way the way he specifically wants it. It's an OS, not a mind reader.

However, if FF is crappy in breezy (which it wasn't for me btw.) it's a very distribution specific problem, isn't it?

Also, yes, believe it or not but if you want to run additional programs or other programs than the default ones, you'll have to install them. Now who would have thought? Can't apt just read my mind, goddammit.

Likewise, if you prefer to setup your file manager in a different way, you will have to change some options. As I said, /dev/mindreader isn't very functional yet.

Finally, there isn't even a firewall installed by default in Ubuntu but if you have set one up yourself and then want to open some ports, you will have to do this by yourself, as, you guessed it, the mind reading abilities of iptables are also lacking.

[Caligula]

In closing I will give my opinion, as worthless as it may be. All Linux distros have a way to go. In it's current state, open source software can not replace Windows and it's "one size fits all" architecture. In my opinion, until Linux becomes more user friendly, and can accomplish ALL of the same feats as Windows without hours of tweeking and "geekdom", it will remain the OS of choice to only a small handfull of enthusiasts.

That's exactly it.
Linux is not windows, Linux will never be Windows, Linux doesn't WANT to be Windows.

Ubuntu is very easy to use, once you how to do it, not try and do it the windows way, try opening a beer bottle the same way you open a coke bottle, see what I mean?
Then you would say "they should change the beer bottles so it'll be like the coke bottles"...

anyway, read that article:
http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

[Mr_J_]

I don't know what you are going threw because I more or less made my computer for linux. Only my wifi card had little support on linux. Ubuntu supported it, so I stayed.

I don't care about my network printer because I don't use it anyway.

The rest works. Only my webcam has never worked, but I've never used it.
Sad, but true... Was costly too.


I don't really care what normal people do. I am geek so geekdom is my playground.

I also don't like spending my time on things that should not take long, like hunting drivers and the such type of problems.

Ubuntu isn't for everyone, but even tho it isn't perfect... It is getting really good. Check back in a year time, or keep slashdot under your nose to look at Ubuntu.

[egon spengler]

No, I'm with Iandfor. Not that I'd say more tweaking, but certainly as much. And I'm not talking about beta stuff or weird specific apps from god-knows-where, I'm talking about the crappy version of Firefox that comes with Breezy, the outdated version of OpenOffice, installing Gnumeric and Abiword so I don't have to use OpenOffice unless I really have to (because it's a slow, bloated dog on my machine), setting up Nautilus to behave properly, convincing the firewall that it really does want to let you open ports, etc., etc. Yes, I've gotten to the point where I can whip through that stuff fairly quickly, as, I'm sure, have most of the people in this thread, but it exists, and it's misleading to state otherwise.

I don't think that anyone said that ubuntu or any other Linux distro could never require tweaking to get exactly how the user wants it, what people questioned was the assertion that it takes MORE tweaking than Windows.

I'd think anyone with no bias would agree that they both will take some adjustment to get how the user would want them to, for instance every example you gave would also be required on Windows

[TeeAhr1]

Ehm, I never claimed Ubuntu did everything for everyone in every conceivable way the way he specifically wants it. It's an OS, not a mind reader.

However, if FF is crappy in breezy (which it wasn't for me btw.) it's a very distribution specific problem, isn't it?

Also, yes, believe it or not but if you want to run additional programs or other programs than the default ones, you'll have to install them. Now who would have thought? Can't apt just read my mind, goddammit.

Likewise, if you prefer to setup your file manager in a different way, you will have to change some options. As I said, /dev/mindreader isn't very functional yet.

Finally, there isn't even a firewall installed by default in Ubuntu but if you have set one up yourself and then want to open some ports, you will have to do this by yourself, as, you guessed it, the mind reading abilities of iptables are also lacking.
Hey now, I'm not trolling. Don't take me to task, dude. I'm just saying that no, it's not zero-config, as the tones of some posts make it sound. And yes, the FF issue is a distro-specific problem, but it's a huge one. It leaks memory all over the floor, to the point where if you're running on a RAM-limited machine, it's unusable within hours. It's a well-documented problem.

But I think you think I'm bitching, and I'm really not. I'm saying that no OS, be it Ubuntu, WinXP, or anything else, is zero-config, unless your name is John Default. That's not a value judgement, that's just a fact.

And yes, the firewall (I have been told by others, as I have almost no network config knowledge) is enabled by default. Again, that's second-hand info, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

In closing, that's my sac you're standing on. Could you move a step over?


I'd think anyone with no bias would agree that they both will take some adjustment to get how the user would want them to, for instance every example you gave would also be required on Windows
I totally agree.

[helpme]

Hey now, I'm not trolling. Don't take me to task, dude.

Oops, sorry, didn't want to come off so harsh. I apologize.



I'm just saying that no, it's not zero-config, as the tones of some posts make it sound.
...
But I think you think I'm bitching, and I'm really not. I'm saying that no OS, be it Ubuntu, WinXP, or anything else, is zero-config, unless your name is John Default. That's not a value judgement, that's just a fact.

And I absolutely agree with that, but my problem is, I never said anything to the contrary.



And yes, the firewall (I have been told by others, as I have almost no network config knowledge) is enabled by default. Again, that's second-hand info, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

You are wrong. ;)