Who else is pissed off at CFL bulbs besides me?

[hotwax]

... cause they suck so much. :mad:

1. They cost $25 for 4 bulbs
2. They contain mercury
3. MOST IMPORTANTLY WHY THEY SUCK:
They die within 2 months

It wasn't even the same batch of CFL's I bought in a pack. Over the past year, I've spent about $100 on 4 packs of different CFL's from my supermarkts (Shop Rite, Rite Aid and some hardware store).

Just this past week, my ceiling light fixture has 4 bulbs. Over the past week I had 1 bulb die a day or every other day. I had to get the ladder and unscrew the fixture to get to the bulb to change it. I did this 4 times! How annoying.

The government says that CFLs should be the new standard for energy efficency. But i think we are wasting more energy making these piece of crap bulbs than saving electricity running them. This makes me wonder if the manufacturer designed it to die within a certain amount of time. I remember 10 years ago when light bulbs lasted years. :confused:

Anyone have an alternative? Would plant grow lights last longer? At this pace, i might as well get a floor lamp so i wont have to get a ladder out every day to change a bulb GRRRRR

[theraje]

Those stupid hospital-glow-emitting pieces of Chinese death make me unhappy, too. Better stock up on REAL light bulbs -- they're supposed to be phased out in a year or two.

Reminds me of Congress saving us from ourselves by making the decree that toilets should use less water. Of course, in the end, they wound up wasting more water than the old models, because the newer models used too little water to get the stuff down in one whack. Any half-competent plumber could have warned them of that.

Oh well, like they say, people can only walk on you as long as you let them.

[Dustin2128]

Go LED, more bang for the buck. I've got a CFL or two though, they've been serving me well for 5 years.

[ikt]

2. They contain mercury


so?

[Dustin2128]

so?
if it breaks, you've got mercury all over your floor. To put it lightly, mercury poisoning is not a good thing.

[RandomJoe]

I didn't initially like the color of them, mostly because I could just perceive that some of the spectrum was missing - things looked a bit "muddy". But I guess I've gotten used to them. I do have to have "warm white" (preferably 2900k or lower) to be happy with fluorescents though.

I've had nowhere near the bad luck you have with them. I bought mine at Home Depot (originally Commercial Electric brand, now nVision I think) and don't pay anywhere near that. They currently have a 4-pack for $6, and when I was first buying them they had a period of 10-packs for $10.

That is for the "60W equivalents" though. I did try some "100W equiv" bulbs and they were less than stellar - about half died fairly quickly, one with smoke and flame! The others are still going though. I even have them in enclosed fixtures.

I have about 20-25 of them in the house, and have only had 3 fail since I first bought them. The first batch is nearing 5 years old! A few of those are starting to take a bit to get bright, I'll probably replace those before they actually die because I don't like that.

That is one thing that REALLY annoys me with some CFLs, though. Mine are virtually instant-on, but my parents bought some that are awful - turn the light on in a room, and you can hardly see anything for a minute or two! I don't know which brand they got, but I know theirs are the "enclosed" ones that look like regular light bulbs. I got the exposed "curly" ones. Don't know if that makes the difference or not.

I've thought about trying some LEDs, but haven't seen anything that interests me yet. From the "comparable wattage" ratings on the bulbs at the store, the ones available for sale now aren't any more efficient than a CFL and for some reason the stores around me only have relatively dim ones - 25W or maybe 40W equiv - I'd need even more bulbs per room, and they're quite pricey still...

[ulfj]

if it breaks, you've got mercury all over your floor. To put it lightly, mercury poisoning is not a good thing.

Not only are they a horrible product if they break you are supposed to call a hazmat crew to do the clean-up which will be billed to you. Just another sham as I see it.

[Warpnow]

Don't have any problems with them. They save me $$$ on my electricity bill. I've had the same four for the 3 years I've lived on my own and never had to replace them, and they didn't cost much. I bought my 4 pack for less than $10 at walmart and they've probably saved me at least a hundred bucks in energy costs.

[NMFTM]

I used to have a $10 CFL daylight bulb and it was the best lightbulb I've ever had. Made the room look amazing. Except it broke within three months and I never bought another because I didn't want to spend that much. Next time I'm going to keep the box and receipt.

[Ric_NYC]

Buy the ones from Home Depot.
They last longer.


You can choose the colors. I prefer "soft white". Some people prefer "daylight".

[Evil-Ernie]

We've had them for a while here in the UK and all my lights are now CFL. To be honest I don't mind them, they are duller than they say compared to incandescent wattage but I just go for the next one up and they are bright enough.

They do save a lot on the juice but don't forget they don't chuck out heat like the old ones so you lose some saving in having to heat rooms slightly more.

Mine have been very reliable, Ive had some of them for years now and Ive had to replace very few. But I wonder if the reliability changes for other nations specific electricity supplies? (here we run on 240v 50hz)

LEDs are the way forward, last year I bought a LED based disco scanner light. Its just as bright, doesn't overheat, is lighter, more efficient and cheaper than its incandescent counterpart. Nor do I have to change blubs etc so in all it was a very happy purchase!

[Spr0k3t]

I love my CFLs... I started using them the instant they were available. I still have two of the original ones I purchased. The best thing about them, they are not instantly bright when they are turned on... they warm up to their peak effeciency over a period of a minute or so.

The mercury thing I really don't understand why so many people are freaking out about it. A single bulb typically contains about 5 mg, which is 1/6000th of an ounce (mass). If all the mercury were concentrated in one droplet, that droplet would have a diameter of only 1.1 mm, which is 0.042 inches. Typical mercury-based fever thermometers contain 0.5 to 3 grams of mercury, which is 100 to 600 times as much mercury as a CFL that has 5 mg of mercury. That white stuff you see when the bulb breaks is not mercury.

Anyway, for those who aren't educated in how great CFLs are, here's a site to get you started: http://www.cflfacts.com/

[handy]

We have 8 CFL bulbs in our house. They were free from the government a few years ago. I've only had to replace one in that time, quite recently too.

They save us on our power bill, they save us buying new filament bulbs often. Often because we get a lot of brown outs here due to dairy farmers power drain twice a day.

We could certainly do without any heavy metals in the things, hopefully someone will advance a new cost effective way to make the things before too much longer.

I know someone who got a mild dose of mercury poisoning, it gave her hell for some years. Skin rashes, her hair kept falling out in clumps & she felt sick all the time.

[Elfy]

So OP - are you sure it's the bulb and not a poor electricity supply - did you check at all? Or did you just hope for a reaction?

They work fine here - the whole house has them except for the bathrooms where it's better to have normal bulbs due to the on off nature of the lighting requirements.

Been using them for some time now with no adverse reactions.

[sandyd]

if it breaks, you've got mercury all over your floor. To put it lightly, mercury poisoning is not a good thing.
Not exactly.
Part of the mercury vaporizes into the air (mercury is gas during operation of the CFL).

I use LED bulbs. (most of them). Each time a CFL goes, LED replaces it....

[Elfy]

Absolutely amazing - 3/4's of the post's come from a country that doesn't pollute at all ...

The 3/4's being this (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1655658) of course ...

[t4thfavor]

We have CFL's in every socket in our 2200 Sq Ft home, and I have found that they are hit or miss as far as how long they last.

some last literally years, I have several that are 8 years old. Some however fail after a few weeks (lots less if you don't buy bottom of the barrel ones)


The murcury is not an issue when it breaks in your house, it's when 100 million of them end up in a landfill, then eventually poison the air, land, and sea...

I had a quart jug of murcury(since been disposed of properly), and as long as you dont eat it, smoke it, or put it on your skin for prolonged periods of time you will be just fine. The media wants you to believe that if .1mg of murcury breaks out of a thermomitor you have to call in the guys in hazmat suits which is not the case.

[jrothwell97]

Not only are they a horrible product if they break you are supposed to call a hazmat crew to do the clean-up which will be billed to you. Just another sham as I see it.

Not true. (http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp)

CFL bulbs work fine, provided:
your electricity supply is good
they're installed properly
they are of good quality (plenty of reputable brands do them for a tiny outlay, and they work just fine.)

[sandyd]

We have CFL's in every socket in our 2200 Sq Ft home, and I have found that they are hit or miss as far as how long they last.

some last literally years, I have several that are 8 years old. Some however fail after a few weeks (lots less if you don't buy bottom of the barrel ones)


The murcury is not an issue when it breaks in your house, it's when 100 million of them end up in a landfill, then eventually poison the air, land, and sea...

I had a quart jug of murcury(since been disposed of properly), and as long as you dont eat it, smoke it, or put it on your skin for prolonged periods of time you will be just fine. The media wants you to believe that if .1mg of murcury breaks out of a thermomitor you have to call in the guys in hazmat suits which is not the case.
how can you remember exactly how large your house is? I forgot within the first week of living in it... ;)

[lisati]

We've been slowly replacing our incandescent lights with CFL bulbs as the incandescents burn out. So far, only one has "gone south" on us, and that was after just a few days. The one in our front porch has been there for a couple of years now, and unlike the others in our house, has a slight blue tinge in its colour. And yes, the ones in our lounge do seem to be not quite as bright.

[handy]

Absolutely amazing - 3/4's of the post's come from a country that doesn't pollute at all ...

The 3/4's being this (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1655658) of course ...

:lolflag: Very good. :^o

[t4thfavor]

how can you remember exactly how large your house is? I forgot within the first week of living in it... ;)

It's easy, I am getting ready to pay taxes on it...

[cariboo]

We've using cfl's in the house for the last 10 years, so far only 3 have had to be replaced. Canadian Tire had a deal on where you got one free 4 pack for every four pack you bought, Ive still got 3 of the original 4 packs left.

I've replaced two of the yard lights with cfl's, one comes on instantly, and other takes what seems forever, but is probably only a minute before it reaches full brightness. We've got 6 yard lights connected to motion sensors more for convenience and power savings than paranoia, they go on and off several times a night because of animals walking through the yard, so we'll see if the cfls outlast the the incandescant lights.

[wewantutopia]

Regarding accumulated mercury pollution:

While it is obviously never good to pollute our air, water, or soil; don't forget that if your electricity is largely generated at coal power plants, vast amounts of mercury is not polluting the air due to decreased electricity demand.

Coal burning power plants emit large quantities of mercury and radiation, among other things. In fact, their emissions are much more radioactive than anything you'd find near a properly functioning nuclear reactor.

[t4thfavor]

And thats precisely why I have them in every socket in my house... That and so I can afford to run my server 24/7/365...

But I have cut down on it's power too, using an atom 330 as the basis the entire thing + drives only draws ~45 watts at load

[t0p]

Are CFLs the bulbs we in the UK call "energy saving" bulbs? Cos I love 'em. They're cheap as hell here (39p per bulb, or 4 for £1 in my local supermarket), they last for ages (Philips Energy Savers come with a 10 year guarantee), they're cheap as heck to run (11 watt energy saver gives equivalent light output of a 60 watt incandescent); and I haven't seen any mercury dripping out of them.

In fact, what household goods do have mercury in them? We can't get mercury thermometers round here no more, just digital ones, so I can't make mercury trip switches for my car "security system". I'd love to know of an alternative source (household goods, not chemical supplies stores).

[LowSky]

CFL stink for outdoor use. we got a few floddlight versions and they are dim and flicker.

LED is by far the best choice.

[undecim]

2 months? You need to change brands. I've lived in my house over 5 years and had to replace 1 bulb.

[darrenn]

... cause they suck so much.

1. They cost $25 for 4 bulbs
2. They contain mercury
3. MOST IMPORTANTLY WHY THEY SUCK:
They die within 2 months

It wasn't even the same batch of CFL's I bought in a pack. Over the past year, I've spent about $100 on 4 packs of different CFL's from my supermarkts (Shop Rite, Rite Aid and some hardware store).

Just this past week, my ceiling light fixture has 4 bulbs. Over the past week I had 1 bulb die a day or every other day. I had to get the ladder and unscrew the fixture to get to the bulb to change it. I did this 4 times! How annoying.

The government says that CFLs should be the new standard for energy efficency. But i think we are wasting more energy making these piece of crap bulbs than saving electricity running them. This makes me wonder if the manufacturer designed it to die within a certain amount of time. I remember 10 years ago when light bulbs lasted years.

Anyone have an alternative? Would plant grow lights last longer? At this pace, i might as well get a floor lamp so i wont have to get a ladder out every day to change a bulb GRRRRR

Well get used to it incandescent light bulbs are absolutely not coming back. One light bulb that will replace them is called Electron Stimulated Luminescence (ESL). Energy efficient like the compact florescent and pleasing to the eye like an incandescent.

More info here
http://newenergyandfuel.com/http:/newenergyandfuel/com/2009/09/21/a-great-new-light-bulb/

[MisterGaribaldi]

I don't and won't buy them. I use incandescents and prefer the ones which give a more white (i.e. "sun-like") spectrum.

I suppose my government's insistence on switching will one day indeed save on my electric bill because my house will no longer be lit. :)

[Austin25]

Go LED, more bang for the buck. I've got a CFL or two though, they've been serving me well for 5 years.

+1
Much more efficient, longer lasting. Better for hacking as well.:popcorn:

[Paqman]

They die within 2 months


I'm really surprised to hear this. I switched all my old-fashioned bulbs to CFLs about four or five years ago, and have never had to replace one. You might have an electical fault in your house. CFLs are electronic, if you've got nasty transients in your home power supply (fridge motor maybe?) then that could be what's killing them. If so it won't be doing the other electronics in your home much good either. Get it checked out pronto.


if they break you are supposed to call a hazmat crew to do the clean-up which will be billed to you.

No you don't, that's just silly. They're no more toxic than strip fluorescent lighting. If you're worried about it just ventilate the room for a couple of minutes after breaking them then clean them up like normal. They should go into the WEEE recycling stream though, don't just throw them in with the landfill. But that goes for anything electronic.

[ronnielsen1]

LEDs are the way forward, last year I bought a LED based disco scanner light. Its just as bright, doesn't overheat, is lighter, more efficient and cheaper than its incandescent counterpart. Nor do I have to change blubs etc so in all it was a very happy purchase! __________________

As someone who has been an electrician for 17 years, I've told people I'll buy cfl's when I'm forced to buy them. This is an excuse for the government to make it seem like they're doing something to conserve energy. There's numerous ways for them to achieve this besides for replacing incandescent lights with junk cfl's. LED's are going to be the future. You can illuminate most rooms with a 5 watt LED light and they have 20 watt LED's that replace parking lot lights. LED's last considerably longer than incandescent or cfl's and don't contain the mercury.


CFLs last SO much longer than those old incandescent bulbs!” That’s how they sell these bulbs, right? ”They’ll last for years!” Not so fast. Let’s start with the time that you have a CFL on. Compact fluorescent bulbs are designed to be on for extended periods of time to meet their rated life — I’m talking 4 hours, continuously. If you only leave one on for an hour, the rated life drops by 20% and as much as 50%. If you cycle it on and off like most of us do in our homes, you’ve reduced the rated life by 70% – 85%! So, for the example the EPA uses in the graph above, an 8,000 hour CFL would now only last 1,200 hours. You’re now down in the range of many incandescent bulbs rated life.



Every single CFL contains a very small amount of mercury, one of the most powerful neurotoxins known to man, amounting to about 4-5 milligrams. Let me start by saying that this is a very small amount, especially if it’s released outdoors. However, releasing this amount of mercury in your home or even a small room in your home can pose serious health risks to children, elderly, pets, and those sensitive to mercury. You can see in the clean-up procedure recommended by the EPA (http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf) that you must take extreme measures to clean up a CFL break in your home. Note the clothing and bedding section where it’s recommended that you throw away any clothing or bedding that comes into contact with the broken CFL!
http://therealtimjones.com/truth-compact-fluorescent-bulbs/


http://knowthelies.com/?q=node/4329

[ronnielsen1]

No you don't, that's just silly. They're no more toxic than strip fluorescent lighting. If you're worried about it just ventilate the room for a couple of minutes after breaking them then clean them up like normal. They should go into the WEEE recycling stream though, don't just throw them in with the landfill. But that goes for anything electronic.

Sure, OK. (The Strip flourescents aren't safe there either and should be properly recycled or better - quit manufacturing them) You do realize that most people don't realize that you're not supposed to put them in the trash like normal. I'm also not sure what double bagging is supposed to do since they're biodegradable.


How should I clean up a broken fluorescent bulb? 5
Fluorescent light bulbs contain a small amount of mercury sealed within the glass tubing. When a fluorescent bulb
breaks in your home, some of this mercury is released as mercury vapor. To minimize exposure to mercury
vapor, EPA recommends that residents follow cleanup and disposal steps. A cleanup overview is described
below; please visit epa.gov/cfl/cflcleanup.html for more information.
CLEANUP AND DISPOSAL OVERVIEW
The most important steps to reduce exposure to mercury vapor from a broken bulb are:
1. Before cleanup
a. Have people and pets leave the room.
b. Air out the room for 5-10 minutes by opening a window or door to the outdoor
environment.
c. Shut off the central forced air heating/air conditioning (H&AC) system, if you have one.
d. Collect materials needed to clean up broken bulb.
2. During cleanup
a. Be thorough in collecting broken glass and visible powder.
b. Place cleanup materials in a sealable container.
3. After cleanup
a. Promptly place all bulb debris and cleanup materials outdoors in a trash container or
protected area until materials can be disposed of properly. Avoid leaving any bulb
fragments or cleanup materials indoors.
b. For several hours, continue to air out the room where the bulb was broken and leave the
H&AC system shut off.

[juancarlospaco]

When CFL bulb die, disassemble it, use the circuitry, connect it to a CFL tube, you have a nice CFL tube.

i got 5 like this, all working nice.

[sdowney717]

The murcury is not an issue when it breaks in your house, it's when 100 million of them end up in a landfill, then eventually poison the air, land, and sea...


It is highly toxic if it breaks in your room
breathe in those mercury vapors and end up with neurological defects
I am glad the government cares so much about our ecological well being to push these bulbs and almost none were made aware of the risks.

I have not broken one yet.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55213

Consider her plight.

When the bulb she was installing in a ceiling fixture of her 7-year-old daughter's bedroom crashed to the floor and broke into the shag carpet, she wasn't sure what to do. Knowing about the danger of mercury, she called Home Depot, the retail outlet that sold her the bulbs.

According to the Ellison American, the store warned her not to vacuum the carpet and directed her to call the poison control hotline in Prospect, Maine. Poison control staffers suggested she call the Maine Center for Disease Control and Prevention and the Maine Department of Environmental Protection.

The latter sent over a specialist to test the air in her house for mercury levels. While the rest of the house was clear, the area of the accident was contaminated above the level considered safe. The specialist warned Bridges not to clean up the bulb and mercury powder by herself – recommending a local environmental cleanup firm.

That company estimated the cleanup cost, conservatively, at $2,000. And, no, her homeowners insurance won't cover the damage.

Since she could not afford the cleanup, Bridges has been forced to seal off her daughter's bedroom with plastic to avoid any dust blowing around. Not even the family pets are permitted in to the bedroom. Her daughter is forced to sleep downstairs in an overcrowded household.

She has continued to call public officials for help – her two U.S. senators included. So far, no one is beating down Bridges' door to help – not even Al Gore, whose Academy Award-winning movie, "An Inconvenient Truth," urges everyone to change to CFLs to save the planet from global warming.

[Kalimol]

You're surprised that a parent and a state agency can get together and overreact about something? Ever heard of Times Beach, Missouri?

Vacuum the sucker and be done with it. Kids used to play with mercury like silly putty. Seriously.

Anyway, I've never had a bulb go out through natural causes, so while I've apparently poisoned myself on a couple of occasions, I'm rather happy with the bulbs' performance.

[Paqman]

This is an excuse for the government to make it seem like they're doing something to conserve energy. There's numerous ways for them to achieve this besides for replacing incandescent lights with junk cfl's. LED's are going to be the future.

Sure, but LED bulbs for normal lighting sockets are only just coming onto the market now, and are still expensive and rare. So it seems reasonable to push CFLs in the meantime.

I've replaced some old MR11 halogen spots with LEDs very successfully, but i'm not going to be splashing out on LED bulbs for general lighting any time soon. I'd love for LEDs to be a viable option, and will probably switched as soon as they are.



You do realize that most people don't realize that you're not supposed to put them in the trash like normal.

Sure, and that's not the only thing people throw in landfill that they shouldn't. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make though? That we shouldn't use CFLs because some people don't dispose of them properly? Or that we should educate people better about what goes in what bin? I'd go for the latter, personally.

[ronnielsen1]

Sure, and that's not the only thing people throw in landfill that they shouldn't. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make though? That we shouldn't use CFLs because some people don't dispose of them properly? Or that we should educate people better about what goes in what bin? I'd go for the latter, personally.

The education would be nice. Maybe bigger writing on the cfls about how to dispose of them. I just don't think that cfl's are worth the price hike considering their relative short life

[The Real Dave]

I have CFL bulbs that have been working for the past 14 years, even though they were originally mean to die after 12 >.<

[Paqman]

I just don't think that cfl's are worth the price hike considering their relative short life

Well, the annecdotal evidence from this thread suggests their lifespan is actually pretty good, and i'd certainly back that up from my own experience. Excessive power cycling like you mention will shorten the life of an incandescent bulb too. Perhaps moreso due to the greater thermal shock.

I don't know what the price difference is where you live, but in the UK you pay up to about 2-3x the price of an incandescent bulb for a CFL, and they seem to last a lot longer than three times as long.

[mobilediesel]

The education would be nice. Maybe bigger writing on the cfls about how to dispose of them. I just don't think that cfl's are worth the price hike considering their relative short life

The average price of a single cfl is about 4 times the price of a single incandescent bulb. The average life-span of a cfl is about 12 times that of an incandescent. That's worth the higher initial cost right there since the cost of ownership per year is less. After that you save money on electricity.

The higher power usage of incandescent bulbs will expose you to more mercury from the power plant than any amount that might leak from a cfl.

[Phrea]

I hate them for a very specific reason: my skin can't handle them.

[ronnielsen1]

The average price of a single cfl is about 4 times the price of a single incandescent bulb. The average life-span of a cfl is about 12 times that of an incandescent. That's worth the higher initial cost right there since the cost of ownership per year is less. After that you save money on electricity.


I'm not a zealous save the earth person but I try to do my part. I just think that cfl's are a misguided effort to help where I think research in other areas would be money better well spent.

As far as cost, I might look at it different than you do in another way. I traditionally supply light bulbs (With the exception of speciality bulbs) on new places that I might wire. The apartment I'm wiring now has 32 can lights (I don't like them either - a lot of the light goes up and they're terrible energy wasters)

I can buy incandescent for around $1 US. CFL's for around $6.88 US or LED's for $33.94 each. Multiply this by 32. In this cutthroat bidding that the economy created my competitors or I either one will go for the incandescent or pass the cost to the builder.

[insane_alien]

i'm not pissed at CFL's they work fine for me and i haven't had to replace a single one while my incandescents have all died.

might be a while before i pick up LED bulbs, these CFL's just won't die.

also, if you're lightbulbs are shattering regularly, you're doing it wrong.

[Paqman]

As far as cost, I might look at it different than you do in another way.

Obviously the economics are different for you than for a home owner. You're only dealing with the up-front costs, rather than the whole life cycle cost.

[gnomeuser]

I have been using CFL for years, I quite like them. They last forever and the light is pretty decent. I tried some early LED based bulbs but was not impressed, current generation products might be better though.

Very happy with them.

[mobilediesel]

I'm not a zealous save the earth person but I try to do my part. I just think that cfl's are a misguided effort to help where I think research in other areas would be money better well spent.

As far as cost, I might look at it different than you do in another way. I traditionally supply light bulbs (With the exception of speciality bulbs) on new places that I might wire. The apartment I'm wiring now has 32 can lights (I don't like them either - a lot of the light goes up and they're terrible energy wasters)

I can buy incandescent for around $1 US. CFL's for around $6.88 US or LED's for $33.94 each. Multiply this by 32. In this cutthroat bidding that the economy created my competitors or I either one will go for the incandescent or pass the cost to the builder.
Looking only at the cost to purchase is short-term thinking. Short-term thinking is what got the economy into its current state.

Obviously the economics are different for you than for a home owner. You're only dealing with the up-front costs, rather than the whole life cycle cost.
Exactly. Anyone not thinking ahead even a little bit will go for the incandescent bulbs because of their low cost to purchase.

[kevdog]

All the CFL bulbs I find at the store (Home Depot, Lowe's, etc) are made in China. And I would rank them on the level of all the other junk I get from China -- shoddy quality control.

And as far as saving energy -- I would like to know if anyone has actually seen any $$ savings when converting to these bulbs? With the multiple computers at my house, the refrigerator, the washing machine, etc. Ive seen no actual money savings from changing to a few junky CFL bulbs. In fact I've seen nothing but a higher monthly electric bill since switching -- or maybe that's because the electricity company wants to raise its prices seemingly every month --- who knows?

Supposedly CFL bulbs can not be used in areas that contain dimmers -- which BTW -- isn't a dimmer switch supposedly able to save energy also -- 40% according to Lutron???

[Paqman]

And as far as saving energy -- I would like to know if anyone has actually seen any $$ savings when converting to these bulbs?


Depends what sort of money you're expecting to save, and how much your power costs. If you light your house for 10 hours a day with 10 40W incandescent bulbs and switch to 9W CFLs instead then you'll save about 3.1kWh per day. For me that would be about £13 a month.



Supposedly CFL bulbs can not be used in areas that contain dimmers -- which BTW -- isn't a dimmer switch supposedly able to save energy also -- 40% according to Lutron???

Standard ones can't, but you can get dimmable ones now. They vary greatly in quality though. The Varilight bulbs are the best i've found.

[hotwax]

Well, the annecdotal evidence from this thread suggests their lifespan is actually pretty good, and i'd certainly back that up from my own experience. Excessive power cycling like you mention will shorten the life of an incandescent bulb too. Perhaps moreso due to the greater thermal shock.

I don't know what the price difference is where you live, but in the UK you pay up to about 2-3x the price of an incandescent bulb for a CFL, and they seem to last a lot longer than three times as long.

what do you mean by power cycling? turning it off and on? i mean i like turning my lights off when i go to bed. out of all the times the cfl bulbs died, it was the second i flipped the wall switch to turn on the lights. god these bulbs are crap

for those of you who have good experiences with these cfl's please mention brand names and wher eyou purchased them from.

[Paqman]

what do you mean by power cycling? turning it off and on?

From ronnielsen1's quote:

If you only leave one on for an hour, the rated life drops by 20% and as much as 50%. If you cycle it on and off like most of us do in our homes, you’ve reduced the rated life by 70% – 85%!

Which was suggesting that if you turn them on and off more frequently than once an hour (which i'd suggest is in fact not a a typical use case for a home) then it will reduce their reliability. But you can say they same for pretty much any kind of machine, from light bulbs to jet engines.



out of all the times the cfl bulbs died, it was the second i flipped the wall switch to turn on the lights.

Why is that a problem? Incandescent bulbs do exactly the same, and more often.


for those of you who have good experiences with these cfl's please mention brand names and wher eyou purchased them from

Can't remember exactly what i've got, some are Philips and i've got a Varilight dimmable. But seriously if you're blowing lots of CFLs the problem isn't likely to be the bulbs, it's the power supply in your house.

[DZ*]

They die within 2 months

Just this past week, my ceiling light fixture has 4 bulbs. Over the past week I had 1 bulb die a day or every other day. I had to get the ladder and unscrew the fixture to get to the bulb to change it. I did this 4 times! How annoying.

It might be a loose connection somewhere that is causing it. It may not be noticeable but will dramatically reduce life span.

[DZ*]

Vacuum the sucker and be done with it. Kids used to play with mercury like silly putty. Seriously

But some of those who tried to vacuum spilled mercury are no longer with us.

It is one of the worst things one can do: pulverize into fine particles and put in the air.

[coolbrook]

I started exclusive use of CFL around '03. They're efficient and durable. I'm looking forward to the price drop and wide availability of LED.

[kevdog]

Depends what sort of money you're expecting to save, and how much your power costs. If you light your house for 10 hours a day with 10 40W incandescent bulbs and switch to 9W CFLs instead then you'll save about 3.1kWh per day. For me that would be about £13 a month.


Yes I am aware of the theoretical arguments -- however have you actually found this to be true -- have you seen your rates lowered? I'm betting these are theoretical savings and not actual -- which no one talks about. Reminds me of gas mileage efficiencies. The numbers tacked on the window of new cars are never what are actually experienced. The reason for this are the test conditions that determine fuel efficiency standards. The tests in no way simulate real life.

[Ric_NYC]

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/9681/cflcolorcategorieschart.jpg(HomeDepot)

[darrenn]

If your looking for a high quality led light bulb check these guys out. They added a heat sink to the light bulbs which makes them better than other brands.

http://www.fireflyledlight.com/index.html

[RandomJoe]

Yes I am aware of the theoretical arguments -- however have you actually found this to be true -- have you seen your rates lowered? I'm betting these are theoretical savings and not actual -- which no one talks about.

Sure I have. I'm an electricity / electronics nut, and a control freak who likes measuring every little thing I can. I've measured the power consumption of every device I could in my house, and confirmed that yes, the CFLs are drawing right at what they are rated for.

A 60W incandescent bulb pulls 60W. The "60W equivalent" CFLs were rated 15W, they fell somewhere between 15W and 18W measured. What surprised me is that they also had a very good power factor, at least according to the Kill-A-Watt meter I used. I've read lots of concerns over that, with some CFLs supposedly being quite bad in that regard. Mine rated about 0.85-0.9 PF.

So, replacing 20 60W bulbs with CFLs means my theoretical max consumption dropped from 1200W to 360W. Theoretical, because I never have every light in the house on at once. Still, every hour I run a given light it is consuming roughly 1/4 the power the original bulbs did. It wasn't going to halve my utility bill, since lighting is not my major load - AC in summer and computers year-round are far higher total loads - but it helps. (Where I *did* see a large drop in the bill was when I phased out my P4 blowtorch servers for newer and far more efficient machines!)

[RandomJoe]

Partially spurred by this discussion, I picked up a few Phillips LED bulbs at Home Depot today. In use, I'm pleasantly surprised, the color is much better than I'd yet seen (they are actually "warm white" which I hadn't seen before) and can actually "fill light" a room well, previous attempts were far too spot-like. However, in a side-by-side test a (now 5 years old!) CFL better lights the room than the equivalent LED bulb. Not too great, considering I'm also not seeing much power savings - the CFL draws 15W, the LED 12.5W!

And ouch, the cost! I bought three different ones - a 2W/"15W equiv" for $10, an 8W/"40W equiv" for $20, and a 12.5W/"60W equiv" for $40! At that cost, they darn well *better* last! Only a 20,000 hour rating though. Their "18 year life" rating is only 3 hours per day! Lame, although I know all manufacturers are using unrealistic daily-use numbers like that...

[Paqman]

Yes I am aware of the theoretical arguments -- however have you actually found this to be true -- have you seen your rates lowered?

It's not a theoretical argument. A device that consumes less power simply costs less to run. That's a fact. I never did a specific power audit when switching to CFLs, but they really do suck less juice.


What surprised me is that they also had a very good power factor, at least according to the Kill-A-Watt meter I used. I've read lots of concerns over that, with some CFLs supposedly being quite bad in that regard. Mine rated about 0.85-0.9 PF.


Power factor isn't an issue for home use. It's really only a problem at the industrial-scale and for distribution. In a domestic power supply you simply pay for the watts you use, regardless of power factor. I'd be surprised if power companies started assessing power factor of each individual home and billing for it.

You could argue that having a power factor near 1 is greener, since it means more of the power being generated is used, but if you're trying to be green while buying your power from a non-renewable resource i'd suggest power factor isn't the first thing you should be trying to change.

[jrusso2]

I have returned to the old incandescent bulbs. Not worth burning the place down to save a little power

[mips]

Dunno, they don't seem to last long and their light output drops off very quickly and I'm referring to brands like G&E, Osram, Philips.

[daverich]

We've got gu10 halogens throughout downstairs and have tried replacing them with LED bulbs but the colour of the light is extremely clinical - I wish this were improved 'cos halogens use more watts per room than a normal incandescent (the lowest i've found is 20watt bulbs and there are at least 4 per room area)

I'd love to find some good LED bulbs with decent coloured light.


Kind regards

Dave Rich

[as2000]

Bought a dollar store one once. Lasted 2 hrs. :lolflag:

[Kalimol]

@ daverich - I just wish even the CFLs indicated their colors. I hated the Daylight style, and the Soft White are more common now, but I wish they indicated on the boxes, which only a few do....

[RandomJoe]

Power factor isn't an issue for home use. It's really only a problem at the industrial-scale and for distribution. In a domestic power supply you simply pay for the watts you use, regardless of power factor. I'd be surprised if power companies started assessing power factor of each individual home and billing for it.
True, but I also generate a portion of my own power with an off-grid solar system and (in longer grid outages) a small generator. It's annoying to have some appliance that *ought* to be well within my inverter's or generator's capacity but thanks to poor power factor taxes them unnecessarily. Not that a handful of lightbulbs is going to make a big difference, but I already have the tools to measure it so I do! :)


You could argue that having a power factor near 1 is greener, since it means more of the power being generated is used, but if you're trying to be green while buying your power from a non-renewable resource i'd suggest power factor isn't the first thing you should be trying to change.
My primary motivator in moving to CFL, LED, whatever is definitely not "green". In fact, while I think it is a good cause in and of itself, I think it gets pushed WAY too hard and tends to turn people off (where I live, anyway). I'm more interested in being self-supporting and conservation, why use more if I don't have to?

A side effect of my job and hobbies is that I think in terms of whole systems much more than just individual devices. Seemingly trivial changes at the unit level can sometimes have significant effects when aggregated upstream to the system level. So even though the power factor of my home's appliances and lights won't affect my utility bill, it still interests me to see what that number is since I also understand what that does (cumulatively) to the grid.

[73ckn797]

CFL = Curly Fried Light

[Paqman]

True, but I also generate a portion of my own power with an off-grid solar system and (in longer grid outages) a small generator. It's annoying to have some appliance that *ought* to be well within my inverter's or generator's capacity but thanks to poor power factor taxes them unnecessarily. Not that a handful of lightbulbs is going to make a big difference, but I already have the tools to measure it so I do! :)


That's a different kettle of fish then. If you're generating your own power then PF would be worth keeping an eye on. Really what you're interested in is the overall PF, rather than that of individual devices though. Switching to CFLs might push you more towards the capacitive end, but if you had a lot of inductive loads already that might actually be a good thing. I'd imagine things are getting more and more capacitive in a modern home though. And obviously it'll depend on what time of day/year and what is actually running.