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linuxforartists
December 30th, 2010, 03:14 AM
Here's a chat transcript of a customer and a Dell sales rep about buying a computer without Windows:

Buying a Dell without Windows is not easy, but possible (http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/buying-a-dell-without-windows-is-not-easy-but-possible-20101228/)



17:00:33 harish pillay: and I want to make it a permanent request and something that I can find from your online catalog. As long as it does not appear, I think Dell is doing the whole world a disservice and pandering to Microsoft’s monopolistic heavyhand.
17:00:33 Dell Rep: we had that quite a lot previously

KdotJ
December 30th, 2010, 03:28 AM
I agree with the Dell Rep here. I know that they should express that fact that their systems are available with no OS, but for the "normal" computer user the OS is transparent to them. To them Windows is "the computer", they just want it to work and they want to recognise what is happening when they turn it on.

In my opinion, if you have the computer knowledge level to install an OS, in particularly linux, then you are not a "normal" computer user and you are the kind of person who would ask for alternate purchase options. It makes sense when the Dell rep explains that people look for the cheapest system and not even realise it doesn't come with an OS

lisati
December 30th, 2010, 03:38 AM
To come at it from a slightly different angle, it is fairly common in the circles I associate with for people to "do a PowerPoint" when they want to make a presentation. To most of these people, it would be a waste of time to explain that "Microsoft PowerPoint" is the name of a piece of software, a tool that they might consider using, rather than the activity itself. As my brother-in-law said one time when I pointed out that he'd been using Windows longer than me, "What's Windows?"

MisterGaribaldi
December 30th, 2010, 04:26 AM
Most people are sheep, trying to get through life with the minimum of effort and not making waves or thinking for themselves too much. It's pretty sad, actually, but it's true.

The heck of it is it makes it hard to help others because you have to do all their chewing for them.

ki4jgt
December 30th, 2010, 04:42 AM
i agree with the dell rep here. I know that they should express that fact that their systems are available with no os, but for the "normal" computer user the os is transparent to them. To them windows is "the computer", they just want it to work and they want to recognise what is happening when they turn it on.

In my opinion, if you have the computer knowledge level to install an os, in particularly linux, then you are not a "normal" computer user and you are the kind of person who would ask for alternate purchase options. It makes sense when the dell rep explains that people look for the cheapest system and not even realise it doesn't come with an os

+ 1

aysiu
December 30th, 2010, 08:21 AM
Shouldn't there just be an easy way to get across that you know what you're doing to save both you and the rep the trouble?

Something like a secret code phrase? I know what an operating system is and can install a legally free one on my own. Don't make me type out a long twenty-part exchange with you explaining that I don't want Windows. Something like that?

handy
December 30th, 2010, 08:25 AM
@aysiu: Yes.

At all OEM web sites.

Sam Fallow
December 30th, 2010, 08:32 AM
So how much cheaper was it?

Dustin2128
December 30th, 2010, 08:37 AM
Shouldn't there just be an easy way to get across that you know what you're doing to save both you and the rep the trouble?

Something like a secret code phrase? I know what an operating system is and can install a legally free one on my own. Don't make me type out a long twenty-part exchange with you explaining that I don't want Windows. Something like that?http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/tech_support.png

trinitydan
December 30th, 2010, 08:43 AM
"Without Microsoft’s operating system the final laptop price is $887.15. With Windows that balloons up to $1,045.79."

Evil-Ernie
December 30th, 2010, 10:22 AM
I thought the Dell rep did his best to help and the buyer came across as a bit of a self-righteous git.

Dell are there for the standard mass market user, not for tech savvy people or somebody that wants a non-standard machine. If you want a machine to run Linux on you either build it yourself or go to a specialist vendor.

Also Dell do offer non-MS OS machines if you look around, it would be nice if Dell did offer other-OS options as standard but I can see why they dont.

Paqman
December 30th, 2010, 10:27 AM
I thought the Dell rep did his best to help and the buyer came across as a bit of a self-righteous git.


Inclined to agree.

cammin
December 30th, 2010, 11:37 AM
Inclined to agree.

Same here.

piquat
December 30th, 2010, 12:48 PM
"Without Microsoft’s operating system the final laptop price is $887.15. With Windows that balloons up to $1,045.79."

Wait! That's $158.64!?!?

I just built a new one and bought an OEM version of 7, Home Premium, to dual boot and play a game or two. It was $99. So that's... Ultimate? Or... $58 in taxes? Or... $58 of profit they're hiding.

I must be missing something here.

zer010
December 30th, 2010, 01:38 PM
When testing radio stations at this site:
http://streamingradioguide.com/radio-shows-on-air.php
You may eventually reach this question:

So we can give the most useful answer, please let us know your experience level using computers and streaming

1. I'm still looking for the Any Key.
2. I don't care how it works, just fix it and tell me when you're done.
3. I regularly use computers, and can follow instructions if you don't get too technical. I know how to use Copy/Paste and know how to capture a screen image.
4. I know how to use the DOS command line and like to change the options in my media player.
5. I'm an advanced user - editing the registry with regedit doesn't scare me at all.
6. If you were using linux, I wouldn't be having this problem.
7. I know more about streaming than you idiots.
Perhaps this could be adopted by other support infrastructures?

Jay Car
December 30th, 2010, 06:47 PM
I thought the Dell rep did his best to help and the buyer came across as a bit of a self-righteous git.

Yes, I also thought the buyer was rather pretentious, there's never any reason to put people on the defensive. I thought the Dell rep handled it pretty well.


Dell are there for the standard mass market user, not for tech savvy people or somebody that wants a non-standard machine. If you want a machine to run Linux on you either build it yourself or go to a specialist vendor.

In today's fast-changing, highly competitive market, I would think that Dell, or any other vendor, would be there to sell to anyone that had the money and desire to buy.

Why should a customer's choice of a piece of software be any sort of roadblock to selling the hardware the buyer chooses? It makes absolutely no sense at all.


Also Dell do offer non-MS OS machines if you look around, it would be nice if Dell did offer other-OS options as standard but I can see why they dont.

Well, I can't see why they don't. Seriously, I can't see it.

If they don't want people to somehow be confused, how hard would it be to set up a separate website, maybe call it Dell-buntu or FedoraDell...whatever. Offer a few models of non-Windows systems, make them easy to buy, and offer paid support. Maybe even a few day's worth of free online tutoring.

At the very least, Dell would need to stop with the "Dell Recommends Windows 7" banners plastered on every page showing Ubuntu systems. In fact, the next time Dell partners with Canonical, that should be specified in the contract. (Just sayin')

For anyone that says Linux is too small a market for big vendors to bother with, I'd ask them how big the market was for Windows when Microsoft started. ??

What's important is not where the market percentage stands now, it's where the market is heading.

Dell's recent history of half-hearted, less than honest attempts to offer Ubuntu systems is despicable, in my view. They look like cowardly fence-sitters, afraid of ruffling a few Microsoft feathers by not moving ahead with what a growing number of customers want, regardless of whether those customers are ordinary or tech savvy.

If Dell put even a small amount of honest effort into it, they could grow that market nicely for themselves. So far though, they're mostly all talk with little substance.

Seriously, with "friends" like Dell, who needs enemies.

dgw
December 30th, 2010, 07:03 PM
So I just went to the Dell website and searched for "Ubuntu" and they've let me select a computer with Ubuntu 8.10 pre-installed. A few clicks and it's added to my cart.

It's smart of Dell to make sure you know what you're doing if you buy a computer without an OS. This is not the same as not offering computers without a Microsoft OS, as they seem to have a few options without Microsoft OS's.

edit: 8.10...wtf? I bought a computer from Dell a year ago and I think it had 9.04 preinstalled. Why would they sell anything with 8.10 now?

~LoKe
December 30th, 2010, 08:42 PM
The customer was being a complete ****. The Dell rep did everything he could to provide the customer with the system he wanted, which he got in a timely manner.

I see no wrongdoing at all except by one party being rude for no reason.

Way to make linux/unix users look like pricks.

Evil-Ernie
December 31st, 2010, 02:05 AM
Well, I can't see why they don't. Seriously, I can't see it.

Dell is a big lumbering beast that doesn't need to trailblaze, also it makes millions from its little deals with MS so its not in their interest as a corporation to upset a major partner for such a small share of the market.



What's important is not where the market percentage stands now, it's where the market is heading.

Not to Dell, I pretty much guarantee a marketing exec is tracking the popularity and market interest in all OS's and at a certain trigger point they will start making deals with those vendors and pushing these products to the public. Dell is big enough to follow the market and for the market to flock to the branding power of Dell



Dell's recent history of half-hearted, less than honest attempts to offer Ubuntu systems is despicable, in my view.

I agree but what do you expect from a large company? Scratch the surface of any successful corporation and you will find despicable actions either now or in its past.
Its sucks, I don't like it but its how businesses are run.