Building first computer, would like advice

[ThatBum]

Hello once again. I got a bunch of cash for Christmas and decided to get a new rig. My six year old Pentium D based machine is getting pretty tired. I thought it would be nice to build it to same some dough, and as a learning experience.

Here is the Newegg wishlist: http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=12105214

I got a full tower because my current machine is a mid tower and I hate it...it's a knuckle-buster. I like big computer cases like some people like big cars, they're easy to work with and they're usually durable. I'm also kinda sorta considering this Lian Li case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112244&cm_re=lian_li_full-_-11-112-244-_-Product). It seems a bit more modern than the Cosmos, as in it has things like a CPU backplate cutout in the motherboard tray.

I got two GTX460's because I plan on doing a lot of gaming with it (I'm going to do a Windows/Ubuntu dual boot like my current machine) and also some CUDA stuff.

I also would like it to be somewhat future-proof, so I got the awesome ASUS board with the USB 3/0 and the SATA 6.

I got the nice processor because I run BOINC, and also transcode a lot of audio, among some other processor intensive things. I want to dabble in overclocking, so I got the multiplier unlocked flavor.

I plan to cut that 2TB drive into 1TB partitions for Windows and Ubuntu.

The question is, how is this for a first time build, in terms of assembly difficulty? I can't imagine it would be that hard because I've upgraded a few computers before, but there's some things I still don't have first hand experience in. What's it like installing a motherboard, CPU, and heatsink? What kind of BIOS settings do I have to set for first boot? Do I have to worry about cooling issues with the two honker graphics cards so close to each other? That kind of thing.

Thanks for your time.

[earthpigg]

$200 computer case? only worth it if you really like this one, and plan to use this case for the next decade.

$200 power supply? only worth it if you plan to use it for the next five years or so, and if it comes with a warranty of similar length.

[Bucky Ball]

Stay calm, stay grounded (as in grab the computer case to ground yourself before delving inside or grabbing parts) and make a plan of action. As you have an old machine there, practise putting in the old processor and heatsink on the old motherboard a few times so you know what you're up against. That is the trickiest part. The heatsink/fan is easy once you know what you are doing. Usually four fixing lugs. Use a screwdriver and go opposite lugs (not around one by one if you know what I mean).

It is really quite easy at the end of the day but I understand the trepidation. My first machine took hours to build. Not more than a few nowadays. Just a bit of practise which is why the old one will come in handy.

With RAM, they can sometimes not work, even though they are properly inserted and locked into the slots. If so, take them all out then add one by one again. When you identify the one that is not working (and they sometimes just work once they've been in and out of the slot a few times anyhow), get a regular eraser (a rubber to erase pencil) and give the RAM a rub on the part that goes into the slot. This sounds odd but damages nothing and has always worked for me.

Good luck with it and let us know how you go. There is nothing like the feeling of your first post to the forums on your new machine, designed and built by your good self! ;)

[Redache]

the processor you have chosen is a different socket to your motherboard. Be careful and choose a 9xx series i7 as they are 1336 not 1156.

[Bucky Ball]

ps: You might like to read the energy efficient computer build link in my signature. ALWAYS try for an 85+ psu. Incidentally posters, the PSU is the heart of the machine and worth paying a little extra for something other than a 'silver box PSU'. When the PSU dies, it generally doesn't go alone. It likes to take some friends with it; ie, cpu, motherboard ...

[constellanation]

I've only built one computer though nerve wrecking, ultimately it was successful and worth it. Though I did at first have problems getting one small group of wires right and almost lost it in frustration, luckily my dad was around and he's pretty tech savvy and got the wires right so it would start up.

My advice beyond parts is read as many different guides on building a computer while waiting for your parts to be delivered. Then read all the installation guides with the motherboard while looking at all the pieces get them in an order similar to the instructions and take it slow and steady when you start assembly. You'll realize quickly it's actually real easy.

Then enjoy your new machine!

[ThatBum]

earthpigg: Yeah, I do plan on keeping it for quite awhile and upgrading it, so a good case is in order. Not sure about the power supply. I did one of those online power supply calculators, and it said I needed 750W or thereabouts. I suppose I could squeak by with a 800W, but I wanted to be safe and assure it can be upgraded without pushing the limit. The power supply is actually $130 currently ($70 off). The warranty is 3 years. Meh.

Bucky Ball: I do have a grounding strap for when I hit the soldering iron, so I can use that. Also, I've taken apart garbage picked machines, but those were all Pentium 4 based and are different from modern sockets, I think.

Redache: Oh damn you're right. I feel stupid now. I don't see why all the i7's aren't all the same socket...

Edit: Changed to processor to i7 950.

Also, I'm considering just waiting till January for Sandy Bridge to come around...

[3Miro]

This is my personal opinion.

- There are cheaper Full Towers than this one. When it comes to cases, once you breach the 100 dollar barrier, there is little difference in features. However, looks are important and I cannot help you with that.

- If you haven't done it already, make sure the RAM is approved for your motherboard either by the RAM or Motherboard manufacturer (preferably both).

- Maybe reconsider the CPU socket. As someone pointed out, this is not he latest Intel has and the socket makes a lot of difference when you want to get full performance. Also, without starting a Intel vs AMD flame-war, AMD gives you more power for the dollar.

- For gaming, you can consider something higher than GTX460. On pure gaming power, GTX480-485 (or even 280-285) might be better. For CUDA, first consider OpenCL and not CUDA, since CUDA is dying slowly (not that there is that much difference between the two). Second, get as much Video RAM as possible. Furthermore, if you are going to use double-precision computing, 2xx series might be faster (Nvidia purposefully lowered the double-precision power on GTX4xx to get people to buy their Teslas).

- 1000W PSU is an overkill. I would go with 750 or 800 and a more "prestigious" brand. Not that Roswell is bad, it is just that people seem to regard Antec better (I currently have a 750W Corsair).

- Microsoft actually makes great hardware. Consider getting better keyboard and mouse, those are rather cheap compared to the rest of your hardware. It is just a mouse, but it does make a difference in your hands. Also, I recently switched to "comfort curve" keyboard with flat and curved key, make a huge difference on the hands. Go to Wal-Mart or Target or Best Buy or Office Max and touch some of the keyboards for yourself to find one that you like.

[Brent0]

For the power supply I would get this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139015
It is 80+ Gold and has a 7 year warranty.

I would also recommend a different case. I personally don't like the unpainted steel look or the price of the case you chose. I would choose something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139001
It is solid black throughout, has the best cable management of any case, and is also very roomy.

Everything else looks good except for the socket but you already updated that.

[Brent0]

- For gaming, you can consider something higher than GTX460. On pure gaming power, GTX480-485 (or even 280-285) might be better. For CUDA, first consider OpenCL and not CUDA, since CUDA is dying slowly (not that there is that much difference between the two). Second, get as much Video RAM as possible. Furthermore, if you are going to use double-precision computing, 2xx series might be faster (Nvidia purposefully lowered the double-precision power on GTX4xx to get people to buy their Teslas).


I agree with everything except this. Two GTX460's in SLI is better than a single GTX480 in most cases. I would consider buying the 1GB versions though.

[ThatBum]

3Miro: I actually have a Saitek Cyborg Keyboard and a G9x here on the aftermentioned 6 year old computer, I plan to swap them out...something I forgot to mention.

Also, I know nothing about AMD and I want to stick to Intel, if nothing else but for familiarity...also Intel's boards look nicer, with the X58 and all that.

How about this power supply? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153106

The GTX 480 is TOO MUCH $$$, sorry to say...I have a budget of $2000. But still, what is more powerful, two GTX 460's in SLI or one GTX 480?

[ubunterooster]

For the power supply I would get this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139015
It is 80+ Gold and has a 7 year warranty.

I would also recommend a different case. I personally don't like the unpainted steel look or the price of the case you chose. I would choose something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139001
It is solid black throughout, has the best cable management of any case, and is also very roomy.

Everything else looks good except for the socket but you already updated that.
That case is way overpriced, imo. I'd reccomend the NZXT Phantom PHAN-001BK $140

Black: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146068

White: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146067

[ThatBum]

Whoops, got ninja'd by Brent0 there. So two GTX 460's it is.

I'm still looking through cases...I'm continuing to evolve my parts list.

[Brent0]

That case is way overpriced, imo. I'd reccomend the NZXT Phantom PHAN-001BK $140

Black: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146068

White: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146067

Yeah the Corsair cases are very expensive but you get what you pay for. IMO, that case lacks the "class" of a Corsair case. It's too flashy. :p

[Brent0]

If you are still unsure about the graphics, here is a useful guide:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-recommendation-upgrade,2803.html

[ThatBum]

Brent0: It's not too flashy. Some of the cases there are just absurd.

I'm trying for a case around $200 or less. I don't like piano black gloss whatever-you-call-it, because it scratches easily and it sucks your fingerprints off from across the room. But I do like black, I think it's a very nice color. Is there any matte black cases you know of?

[ubunterooster]

Matte and meshy. $160 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129043

[ThatBum]

Yeah, I saw the twelve hundred. I don't really know what to think of it, but eh, what the hell.

I also put 1GB 460's in. I mistakenly thought that all 1GB 460's were the SE variety. Shows how much I know with my 8500GT.

Oh, does the twelve hundred lock? Like, with keys? Just wondering.

[Brent0]

I know I've been posting a lot of Corsair products but they make some quality PC components. I really like everything they make and the warranties they have.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139003
If you don't mind a little size downgrade, this is one of the best mid-tower cases for the price.

[ThatBum]

Oh that's too small! I like it big!

...that's what she said.

E: Well, actually, now that I saw inside it, it's not too bad, but still.

[Bucky Ball]

Antec case with 85+ 500watt Antec psu, AU$200. This is a reliable and cheap combination. There is a calculator on their site you might find useful. The link is in my computer build HOWTO link below.

[constellanation]

not nearly as flashy a case as some mentioned, but as a brand antec is pretty solid, I have the antec 300 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042&cm_re=antec_300-_-11-129-042-_-Product) if you have questions about it or maybe want a picture of it open...

[Brent0]

You're almost done with the list. Some things to consider:

1.) Buy an SLI bridge as those cards do not come with one
2.) Maybe consider an SSD for Windows 7. You won't regret it.
3.) Buy Windows 7 unless you are going to get it some other way... ;)
4.) I'm not sure about the power supply you chose. Corsair and Antec are generally the better brands. Don't cheap out on the PSU!

Good luck with the parts. Building a computer is actually quite easy. Just search for some tutorials on YouTube and you're set.

[ThatBum]

I like the Antec P183, especially with the side window the way Puget Computers builds their rigs, but eh. And 500W isn't nearly enough for what I got. I tried a calculator and it said I need 748W. Not sure how legitimate that is, because it's Newegg's.

Also, 460 or 465? I think the major difference is that the 465 can do more than 2 way SLI.

[ThatBum]

Brent0:
The SLI bridge comes with the motherboard. Also SATA cables for the hard drive and DVD drive.

I don't really trust SSD's. I don't think the technology is quite there yet. I'm a bit worried about the level of maintenance they require (minimizing writes, TRIMing, etc). I don't really care about load from disk speeds. I like-y computational power. It's all about the FLOPS and Tri/sec, baby (cost permitting, of course).

I heard Thermaltake power supplies are good, particularly the Toughpower ones. But I'll go and get Corsair, I saw one that was good by them.

Also, is my memory good for my motherboard? I know the speed is good, but what about things I don't know much about, like latency and stuff?

[Brent0]

I don't really trust SSD's. I don't think the technology is quite there yet. I'm a bit worried about the level of maintenance they require (minimizing writes, TRIMing, etc). I don't really care about load from disk speeds. I like-y computational power. It's all about the FLOPS and Tri/sec, baby (cost permitting, of course).

Also, is my memory good for my motherboard? I know the speed is good, but what about things I don't know much about, like latency and stuff?

That's true. Also, SSD is still a new technology and will definitely get cheaper and mature a little.

The memory should be fine. The speed differences with lower latencies are negligible. But if you care, the lower the latency the better. And the lower the voltage the better, too.

[ThatBum]

Someone here said to check if the memory is certified to work with the motherboard, or something to that effect. Just making sure.

If you're wondering where the speakers are, I have a big 330 watt ghetto blaster (http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/dcbint/cpindex.pl?ctn=FW-C577/37&slg=en&scy=US) in my room with a USB interface, so there's that. The speakers in the monitor are there to I don't wake the house up at night.

[Bucky Ball]

I tried a calculator and it said I need 748W. Not sure how legitimate that is, because it's Newegg's.



Try the Antec calculator. But remembering it does apply to their own PSUs which are generally well efficient, not the silver box variety.

[Brent0]

Try the Antec calculator. But remembering it does apply to their own PSUs which are generally well efficient, not the silver box variety.

I tried it with his proposed system and it was 500 watts minimum. With power supplies, you should get at least 200 watts extra for future upgrades. I would still go for the 850 watt.

[Warpnow]

Overkill, and too expensive. You'd likely not even notice the difference between that machine and a $600 build unless you used benchmark tests.

Let's say this build lasts you another six years. In three it will be below average. In five it will be ancient. By year six, people will view at as a piece of history.

That's the necessary evil of technology.

Build a $600 machine, and in three years, replace it, and build another, and then another in three years, and you'll have a great machine for the next decade, rather than a beast for two years and a mediocre machine for the rest.

Course, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you'll build another $1600 machine in 2-3 years. But my guess is if you could regularly do that you wouldn't be running a Pentium D machine right now.

I've known alot of people, usually younger, who build their first PC and spend thousands on it. I knew a guy in high school who spent $3k on a computer with money his grandma gave him because he told her he "needed a better computer for school".

What he ended up with were some parts it took him four months to get together. Eventually (with way too much help from me), he got it running, and he bought some nice games for it, and really enjoyed it, for about a month, until he stopped being excited about how awesome his computer is. Not its not that awesome, just another dual core machine with two out of date GPUs and outdated DDR2 ram, and his Grandma isn't paying for another desktop.


Just my $.02, and I hope I didn't offend anyone, but I generally think building these kinds of super beastly PCs that cost an amount expressed with a comma is a mistake for 99% of people.

[ThatBum]

I don't intend it to be "super beastly," you know. If I intended it to be super beastly, I would, you know, put a 980X, and three 580's, and oodles of RAM, and SSDs, and liquid cooling and all kinds of stuff in it. I'm fully aware that it's going to be obsolete in 0.4 of a femtosecond after it's completed, but I don't care. I intend to hang on to it for quite a while. I don't care how it compares to other people's rig's really, just as long as it serves me well for what I want to do (just like my Pentium D machine, which I intend to turn into a file server), it's fine with me.

Heh heh, super beastly. Do you mind if I steal that?

[Brent0]

Overkill.
Well, you have a good point but if you are going to upgrade things every few years you might as well buy the best so you don't have to throw it all out at the same time. I built a $600 computer and I regret not spending more. I can't really upgrade it to my liking after a year of ownership. For example, I want to add another 5770 but my motherboard only has 1 PCIe slot. This wouldn't have been an issue if I had spent a little more. Also, my case is sub-par and I have considered buying a new one only a few months after buying it due to space limitations. A high-end case could last for 6 years of upgrades but if you cheap out, you will have to buy another sooner. The same thing applies for motherboards. You could upgrade the CPU more than once without buying a new motherboard as long as it is high-end.

I could probably explain myself better but I'm tired and can't think right now. :P

[ThatBum]

The component that needs to be good quality for future upgradability is the motherboard. Mine is somewhat future-proof, what with the USB 3.0 and the SATA 6. Although it's kind of fakey USB 3.0, because it's not on chip, but a separate controller, so there is only two ports.

[madhi19]

My first advice visit YouTube and watch a few hours of tutorials to see how it done you pick up a lot and avoid a few big screw up! Carey Holzman‬‎ got some of the best and most detailed I found. (http://www.youtube.com/user/CareyHolzman) My second advice is don't cheap out on the PSU that the first mistake that peoples make.

[Bucky Ball]

... don't cheap out on the PSU that the first mistake that peoples make.

Hope that advice has gotten through! While the PC may become obsolete, a good PSU is rated at 600, 000 hours, or, about 70 years running 24/7. You won't get that with a silver box PSU so worth the extra spend. I know you can get a silver box for 50 bucks but ... you have a lot to lose if sparks start flying out the back of the machine (before you laugh, happened to a friend, almost started a house fire, and killed everything attached to the motherboard; CPU, RAM, vid card, hard drive and data ... and the motherboard itself).

You wanted advice, seems like you got plenty on this active thread! lol

[mips]

Brent0:
I don't really trust SSD's. I don't think the technology is quite there yet. I'm a bit worried about the level of maintenance they require (minimizing writes, TRIMing, etc). I don't really care about load from disk speeds. I like-y computational power. It's all about the FLOPS and Tri/sec, baby (cost permitting, of course).


An SSD makes a big difference in your desktop experience. HDDs are the biggest bottleneck at the moment. I would not keep my data on them but I would load the OS onto one and if you are paranoid even image it to a normal drive should the brown stuff hit the fan.

The other big thing that makes computer usage more of a pleasure is you monitor seeing that's what you stare at all the time. I would suggest you get something better and bigger. 24"-27", Samsung makes some good LCDs so maybe consider that.

[ThatBum]

You wanted advice, seems like you got plenty on this active thread! lol
That's for sure. However, I enjoy talking about this stuff, it's fun and educational.

I actually let the smoke out of a power supply once. It was a horrendous piece of crap that came in my HP box, a Delta Electronics 350W. The filter capacitors went, and violently exploded like a gunshot. Scared the hell out of me. I didn't even do anything special to the computer! Miraculously, the rest of the machine survived, so I put a BFG 650W in it, and it's still kicking.

mips (millions of instructions/sec?): Um, yeah, SSDs...I really think they're not for me, at least not yet. If anything, I'm a very patient man. I can wait a while while something loads. Right now I'm living off an old salvaged 160GB PATA drive with a PATA to SATA controller stuck to the back to make it even slower. I have been for a long time. So I imagine ANY modern drive with a native interface would be a quantum leap in speed.

Also something I have been living off of is a 17" fullscreen monitor. My dad has the same size and resolution monitor as the one I picked out, and I think that size is just perfect for me. I can't really see myself using a 24"-27" monitor, it's too big you my eyes to track across, you know? I don't really know how big a screen that is fairly close to your face has to be, but it's some people's preference, I guess...

Something to add, I'm thinking about getting one of those self-contained liquid cooling units for my CPU. I plan to push it a lot with BOINC (BOINC is a distributed computing client like Folding, if you don't know what it is...think SETI and climate prediction). Plus the CoolIT unit looks REALLY damn cool with it's LCD.

Also also, I'm still flitting through 1366 mobos. I'm looking at the EVGA FTW3 board. It's a quite a bit more expensive than the ASUS, but seems to be of better build quality and general happiness all around. I'm getting close to the budget here, I got to find a <$300 mobo. But there's so many choices! I'm like a kid in a candy store, except I'm a geek in a mobo store! And I'm rambling! And it's 3 in the morning! I'll stop now.

[3Miro]

About SLI: I forgot about that one earlier. I don't know how SLI and Linux play together, however, for gaming, two GTX460 should be better than one 480. On the other hand, there are some issues with CUDA. If you have two GTX460 with 1GB of RAM each, then in SLI mode you will have only 1GB of RAM too. Depending on what you are doing for CUDA, RAM is often the limiting factor (like in the case of most science applications), so SLI and CUDA (or OpenCL) don't go that well together.

I just notices that now you are looking at EVGA motherboard. Three years ago I bough two things from EVGA, a motherboard and a video card. The Mobo lasted 6 months, the fan on the video card lasted 1 year. To be fair, EVGA did replace the dead motherboard, but I did not want to wait for the RMA procedure and got a new Gigabyte, then I sold the replacement EVGA. I may be the exception here and three years is a long time, however, I stick to Gigabyte since then.

[ThatBum]

3miro: I asked if SLI works in Linux in IRC once, someone said it does, but only if you hve the proprietary NVIDIA binaary blob drivers. If you don't, it will only recognize the card in slot #1.

I wonder how the RAM thing works though. Maybe it works like RAID 0, in that it's twice as fast. In my electrical engineering mind, I think they are in parallel. Series would increase the size of the RAM (assuming graphics cards behave in this way like resistors, of course, and not capacitors). It's not too much of a problem here, my 8500GT with it's 1GB of RAM is okay size wise, it's just too slow.

Finally, what do you think of ASUS? They have a bunch of 1366 boards. My friend is a ASUS fanboy, I want to see what they're really like. The only ASUS things I have are my crusty old P5LP-LE socket 775 board in my machine now, and an Eee PC. Both seem solid...

[mips]

mips (millions of instructions/sec?)

Also something I have been living off of is a 17" fullscreen monitor. My dad has the same size and resolution monitor as the one I picked out, and I think that size is just perfect for me. I can't really see myself using a 24"-27" monitor, it's too big you my eyes to track across, you know? I don't really know how big a screen that is fairly close to your face has to be, but it's some people's preference, I guess...

millions of instructions/sec & MIPS processor architecture.

I went from a 19" to a 22" to a 24" and I still sit the same distance away. As I went up in size the resolution also increased. I don't find my eyes scanning across the screen as I see from corner to corner without issue.

[ThatBum]

Eh, maybe my noggin got used to looking at my 17" screen. I really don't feel like I have to have a big monitor. If I wanted a big screen for laying in bed to do Intermanets browsing, I could just output to my TV. Although I need a newer TV to do video out to it though, I only got a big ol' CRT TV. Maybe in the future when I get enough scratch I can get a bigger monitor (my graphics can certainly handle it!), but now it's not a high priority.

E: Hm, strike that. I found a 25" for $200. How bout that. Newegg is win.

[3Miro]

3miro: I asked if SLI works in Linux in IRC once, someone said it does, but only if you hve the proprietary NVIDIA binaary blob drivers. If you don't, it will only recognize the card in slot #1.

I wonder how the RAM thing works though. Maybe it works like RAID 0, in that it's twice as fast. In my electrical engineering mind, I think they are in parallel. Series would increase the size of the RAM (assuming graphics cards behave in this way like resistors, of course, and not capacitors). It's not too much of a problem here, my 8500GT with it's 1GB of RAM is okay size wise, it's just too slow.

Finally, what do you think of ASUS? They have a bunch of 1366 boards. My friend is a ASUS fanboy, I want to see what they're really like. The only ASUS things I have are my crusty old P5LP-LE socket 775 board in my machine now, and an Eee PC. Both seem solid...

Currently Nvidia cards are useless without the proprietary driver, so if SLI needs it, it is no big deal. A trickier question is about CUDA + SLI under Linux, I expect it to be OK, but I cannot be 100% sure.

Also, I am not 100% sure how RAM works, but I think in SLI mode two cards will have mirror images of the RAM. That is, both would keep a copy of all the information. Effectively, two cards in SLI would have just as much RAM as one card alone. On the other hand, when computations are performed on the data, both GPU use their processors, so CUDA/OpenCL will benefit in speed form SLI. However, as I mentioned before, depending on what you are doing, often times RAM is the main limitation for GPU-Computing, so the speed is not necessarily a big advantage. (this really depends on what you intend to do)

ASUS has good reputation for motherboards, although they tend to be pricey. I have never owned an ASUS motherboard, just couple of ASUS-Nvidia video cards which work fine (one of them did die, but it was replaced promptly, small inconvenience).

[cascade9]

Redache: Oh damn you're right. I feel stupid now. I don't see why all the i7's aren't all the same socket...

Also, I'm considering just waiting till January for Sandy Bridge to come around...

Intel has been doing that sort of things for years now. The only time that intel combines all the desktop CPUs into 1 socket is when AMD is getting almost as fast, if not faster than the Intel CPUs. When intel has a clear advantage, thats when they start rolling out 'perfomance' and 'standard' setups. (eg, slot 1 P2s vs socket 370 celerons, SDRAM P4s/celerons vs RDRAM P4s, etc etc).

Soket 1366 is nice, IF you dont mind paying a fair chunk more for not much real world performance increase.


Also, I am not 100% sure how RAM works, but I think in SLI mode two cards will have mirror images of the RAM. That is, both would keep a copy of all the information. Effectively, two cards in SLI would have just as much RAM as one card alone. On the other hand, when computations are performed on the data, both GPU use their processors, so CUDA/OpenCL will benefit in speed form SLI. However, as I mentioned before, depending on what you are doing, often times RAM is the main limitation for GPU-Computing, so the speed is not necessarily a big advantage. (this really depends on what you intend to do)

ASUS has good reputation for motherboards, although they tend to be pricey. I have never owned an ASUS motherboard, just couple of ASUS-Nvidia video cards which work fine (one of them did die, but it was replaced promptly, small inconvenience).

Thats the way that RAM in SLI used to work. I dont think they've changed it.

Asus- IMO, overrated. They dont make junk....hmm, actually they do, but the retail stuff is normally pretty good.

Asus made its name back 'in the day'. Asus socket 7 and slot 1 motherboards were very good, but its all been downhill since then. BTW, I've seen a LOT of asus stuff. I've owned several asus motherboards (all the way back to socket7......I think I owned a 486 asus board but its so long ago I cant remember exactly), and worked on a lot more systems with asus parts.

That said, I'd rather have an asus over an asrock, ECS or MSI.

[gordintoronto]

I'm trying for a case around $200 or less. I don't like piano black gloss whatever-you-call-it, because it scratches easily and it sucks your fingerprints off from across the room. But I do like black, I think it's a very nice color. Is there any matte black cases you know of?

I have a Centurion 534 case, and I'm very happy with it. It's black, not shiny. I moved the side fan to the front, and my hard drive runs at 34 C. The wiring instructions were not perfect, and I bet the same applies to the HAF.

I'd spend the savings (and a bit more) on a single GTX 580. [smile]

You could also have a look at the PCMech web site for configuration and construction tips. The folks there are not fans of SLI.

[msandoy]

This has been said more than once in this thread. But, since you are set on building a computer to last, spend your money on a good PSU (mine cost 200$) and a really up to date main board, with all the new standards. CPU and GFX cards come and go, just make sure the base is secure.

[Dawei87]

i havent read this whole thread, and im sure that almost everything has been covered. the only thing i can think to say is if you are planning on dual booting, you might want to get two separate hard drives, maybe 2x 1TB. this way, if one fails you wont lose both operating systems and all your data, and also you cant have more then five partitions on a single hard drive. if you have two drives, you could set it up so that windows seven is on one with the local C:\, "System Reserved", and a data partition (thats the way i have mine set up) and then have linux on the other hard drive and have your /, /boot, /home, /tmp etc on different partitions. two 1TB drives might cost a little more than a 2TB drive, but it gives you more options. that is exactly how i have my system and i like it a lot. i also have a friend who has a cooler master haf 932, and although it is a good case i have the haf x, and i think it is worth the price difference. i love the extra room the haf x offers, and the way it looks (more finished in my opinion) and i plan on using this case for a very long time. its all up to you and whether or not you want to spend the extra cash

[3Miro]

i havent read this whole thread, and im sure that almost everything has been covered. the only thing i can think to say is if you are planning on dual booting, you might want to get two separate hard drives, maybe 2x 1TB. this way, if one fails you wont lose both operating systems and all your data, and also you cant have more then five partitions on a single hard drive. if you have two drives, you could set it up so that windows seven is on one with the local C:\, "System Reserved", and a data partition (thats the way i have mine set up) and then have linux on the other hard drive and have your /, /boot, /home, /tmp etc on different partitions. two 1TB drives might cost a little more than a 2TB drive, but it gives you more options. that is exactly how i have my system and i like it a lot. i also have a friend who has a cooler master haf 932, and although it is a good case i have the haf x, and i think it is worth the price difference. i love the extra room the haf x offers, and the way it looks (more finished in my opinion) and i plan on using this case for a very long time. its all up to you and whether or not you want to spend the extra cash

+1. Two HDD are better for dual-booting Windows and Linux. Disconnect one HDD, install Windows on the other, then reconnect the second and install Linux. That way you will not mess the bootloaders even if you reinstall Windows. You can also go for 500GB, 500GB, 1TB, the first two for OS and the other for storage. There are relatively cheaper storage oriented HDD with large size (1 - 2TB).

[ThatBum]

Dawei87, 3miro: Yeah, that's how I got it set up now, with two 160GB drives (one came with the rig, another was salvaged). I also got an external 320GB drive for me /home in Linux. I kinda don't know about that, it's a bit complicated to do some stuff what would be easier with not so many drives...but I'll give it a shot with two 1TB ones. I already have a 500GB pocket drive with most of my music and crap on it, so it should be fine. I'll make a separate /home partition though, for easier upgrading...

I don't see too much difference between the HAF 932 and the HAF X. I like the 932's side panel more, with the window with the cool looking lattice stuff on it. I like both cases because the drive bays, both 5.25" and 3.5", have a good layout, make sense, and don't get in the way. The HAF X has some good features though, I might get that if I can trim down some other stuff.

Also I think my power supply's okay, I just good a good deal on it.

E: Got a bit better modular Corsair supply. Also got the HAF X. Woo!

[3Miro]

Here is a crazy setup:

HDD1:
Windows Bootloader (and Windows 7 boot partition)
Windows main partition (i.e. C:)
Linux /home

HDD2:
Linux Bootloader (setup from the BIOS to be the default boot HDD)
Linux /
Windows partition with Program Files.

(since you will not really be using Linux swap, it doesn't matter where you put it)

In that way, when you run a Linux program, it will load the program from HDD2 and the settings from HDD1. While windows will be the opposite. This is sort of like a lazy version of RAID.

Performance boost would be negligible and there may be some issues with Windows and Linux not coexisting properly, but it is something interesting.

[ThatBum]

Ha. Lazy RAID. That's funny.

You should know that it will be a while before these actually get purchased, because I currently have no money redeemable to the Internet; i.e. it's all in cash. I don't have a bank account and/or a card set up yet, so I have to do that. But it's always good to plan this ahead so I don't have to do it later.

[Evil-Ernie]

I have self built pretty much every machine I've used since day one, I enjoy a tinker and I have come a cropper a few times but you learn by experience.

For your first build I would say don't buy lots of expensive bleeding edge kit, you are more likely to blow up something pricey and if its shiny new there will be limited user feedback/support out there. Instead buy a load of cheap crud off eBay and get experience building a working system, or even try self upgrading the machine you have now first before diving in.

Simple procedures like earthing yourself and handling components with care from the start will stop heartache, use the right tools for the job (correct screwdrivers, earthstrap, long nose pliars etc) and dont be tempted to use a kitchen knife (dont laugh, its been done before ;) ) as a substitute for a tool!

I think you have took a first good step and asked for advice, dont get out of this habit as its a good one. Even if you think a question is silly still ask, nothing worst in completetly messing up something you could of easily asked about.

Good luck with your build :)

[ThatBum]

Evil-Ernie: I have quite a bit of experience doing this kind of thing. I've upgraded the hell out of my little ol' HP box (second hard disk, replaced power supply, more memory, replaced exhaust fan, new graphics card). I also have a ground strap. My parts aren't TOO cutting edge, but they're still damn good. I've had a bit of practice with motherboards and CPUs with junker garbage picked machines. I've successfully disassembled them and put them back together. So I think I'll do fine.

[ThatBum]

Well, I finished it, and it worked perfectly the first time! Now I have a dual boot with Windows and Ubuntu set up.

A question though, I'm worried about the graphics cards' temperatures. The top card gets to about 90C when playing FarCry 2, 95C in Crysis Warhead, and even got to 100C in FurMark before I had to stop it. The bottom card is doing fine, it maxes out around 60C in anything. It seems the top card has no room to breathe because it's jammed up against the back of the bottom...also it's sucking in the bottom card's heat. There's no overclock or anything, its all stock. I think my airflow's good. Is there any way I can reduce the temperature for these cards? I know they're rated for 104C according no Nvidia's site, but still...

EDIT: I'm loving the CPU's liquid cooling! I can overclock the poo out of it and still have it be at a reasonable temperature and no computation errors or power supply problems. If only the cards worked better...I may need to get different cards with different coolers, Galaxy's don't seem to work good in SLI. Also, I tried putting the bottom card in the x8 slot closer to the bottom, but it wasn't even recognized there. Ho-hum.

EDIT2: Yep, I just had my first thermal shutdown on account of the top graphics card while playing Crysis. The cards are really killing me, someone want to help out?

[piquat]

Did you end up with the Coolermaster or the Lian?

One reason I used an Antec900 for this recent build is the fan on the side is placed directly over the video cards and also blows down on the northbridge. I know it's a mid and not what you want but I'm wondering if that isn't your problem? There probably isn't room between the cards for one of those slot coolers is there?

[ThatBum]

I went with the HAF X. The HAF X has a big 200x30 mm intake fan blowing over the graphics cards, but it's not enough apparently. I think the distance between the cards' coolers is kinda unavoidable with SLI. I could have gotten a motherboard with an extra slot's distance between the PCIe slots, but I only knew this existed after I got this motherboard.

A combination of underclocking and a custom fan profile has fixed the temperatures somewhat (get about 80C in FarCry 2 now), but they're still high, and the fans are LOUD. I'll figure something out.

[mips]

I went with the HAF X. The HAF X has a big 200x30 mm intake fan blowing over the graphics cards, but it's not enough apparently. I think the distance between the cards' coolers is kinda unavoidable with SLI. I could have gotten a motherboard with an extra slot's distance between the PCIe slots, but I only knew this existed after I got this motherboard.

A combination of underclocking and a custom fan profile has fixed the temperatures somewhat (get about 80C in FarCry 2 now), but they're still high, and the fans are LOUD. I'll figure something out.

This seems to be a common problem suffered by many people and could lead to premature failure of the cards.

Dunno if this will fit with your space http://www.gelidsolutions.com/products/index.php?lid=1&cid=17&id=52&tab=1

Nice results here http://forums.overclockersclub.com/index.php?showtopic=178761

[ThatBum]

Thanks for trying to help, but now that I've actually gave it a shot, I think SLI is more trouble than its worth. I've noticed weird glitches in some games (flickering of in-game computer displays in Crysis, physics accuracy problems in Fallout 3, people appearing in wireframe/texture corruption in FarCry 2, etc.) that were not heat dependant. I took one card out, and these glitches ceased. Strangely, it seems to be running faster on one card instead of two, even before I overclocked the one card to 800 core/2000 memory. Running FurMark at these speeds at 1920x1080 with no AA yields about 40FPS, at 75C for the whole 30 minutes or so. I'm considering returning these two cards in exchange for a single 570, for (allegedly) a little less performance than 2x460, but less heat and power comsumption. I might put pictures of my rig up, if I can find my camera.

[mips]

I'm considering returning these two cards in exchange for a single 570, for (allegedly) a little less performance than 2x460, but less heat and power comsumption. I might put pictures of my rig up, if I can find my camera.

Sounds like a good idea.

[ThatBum]

Yeah, another question, 570 or 480? The 480 has more memory and a wider bus width, but the 570 has higher clocks (and presumably better binned silicon) and better efficiency.

I'm not really a Nvidia fanboy or anything, it's just that Nvidia cards are all that I've known/had in my possession. I heard that ATI cards have driver problems a lot. Other than that, for ATI cards, I guess it's down to the 6850 or the 6870. I don't even know the cards' prices or anything, but I heard they're competitors to the aftermentioned Nvidia cards, and they're cheaper. So yeah.

Also I'm happy to report that I have a stable 3.8GHz processor overclock. It survived Prime95 overnight, so I think it's pretty bullet-proof.

[Spike-X]

Here's one thing I learned from my most recent build - if you're going for a large case, make sure you get a power supply with long leads. One of my power connections to the motherboard only juuuuuust reaches.

[Spike-X]

Microsoft actually makes great hardware. Consider getting better keyboard and mouse, those are rather cheap compared to the rest of your hardware.

I got a Microsoft wireless keyboard/mouse set around four years ago. I had to take them back, as they simply refused to work properly; constant dropouts and missed keystrokes. Exchanged for Logitech, worked straight away.

[Brent0]

Sorry to hear about the problems with SLI. It could be that one of the cards was bad.
If you are not worried about drivers in Linux, I would even consider the 6950. It has a lower price and every card (For now) can be unlocked to a 6970 through a little BIOS flash. It's actually quite easy and if it doesn't work, you've still got a great card that is about the same performance of a GTX480/570. AMD cards tend to use less power, too.

If you want Nvidia, go for the 570. :P
I have an AMD 5770 and I am very pleased with the performance/price.

[mips]

Yeah, another question, 570 or 480? The 480 has more memory and a wider bus width, but the 570 has higher clocks (and presumably better binned silicon) and better efficiency.

570.

Consumes less power, runs quieter & performs better than a 480.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-570-review/1
http://www.fudzilla.com/reviews/item/21108-nvidia-gtx-570-review/21108-nvidia-gtx-570-review

[ThatBum]

make sure you get a power supply with long leads.

Well, I already built the thing :P. The 8 pin ATX cable was too short, but EVGA is awesome and included an extension for this with the motherboard. Also the SATA power cable is a bit too short too, I couldn't put my DVD drive all the way at the top, I had to put it down a couple slots. But meh, I might put a fan controller in the top two slots anyway, where a molex can reach.

Edit: Aah, got ninja'd by a bunch of people at once!

Spike-X: The cheapie mouse and keyboard you see there are for my old rig, which I don't intend on being at much (it's turning into a file server). The ones for THIS beast are the ones from the old rig, a Saitek Cyborg Keyboard, and a G9x.

Brent0: I don't think I have a bad card. I swapped them around in SLI, and tried them individually, they're pretty identical. I'm running on one card now, the other is in its antistatic bag. It's overclocked to 850/1700/2050 now, still works fine.

And huh, ATI's already at 69xx? Man, I'm out of the loop. I don't really like the squirrel-cage cooler design, they tend to be loud and inefficient. I suppose I could put an aftermarket one on myself, but I'm lazy. Still, those specs are impressive, especially with the extra shaders from the BIOS flash thingie. I guess now it's down to the 570 or the 6950...both are significantly cheaper than two 460's. I paid $440 for both of them, $220 each. I'm going to get the new card with money from the returned ones...I just hope the restocking fee isn't too bad. I actually went out and got them in person at Fry's, as I found it was a hair cheaper than Newegg, what with the shipping and all. Fry's customer service tends to be crap, so let's see if I can survive that.

Edit the second: Well, I got that 570, and it's working perfectly! Heavy sucker though.