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Nick Hopton
December 24th, 2010, 01:27 PM
I attempted to install 10.10 to dual-boot on my computer. To do this I popped the CD into to the drive and let it load. From here I selected the automatic install option (to co-exist with Vista) went through the installation process as prompted and then rebooted the machine. Most of the indignation has worn off by now, but what I found was that the machine booted straight into Ubuntu, with no option to boot Vista. To fix this I had to download a Vista rescue disk and do the 'restore mbr' thing.

At this point I decided to walk away from Ubuntu for good and used the Vista disk manager removed the Linux partitions from my hard-disk.

Now I am having second thoughts, but I cannot face the prospect of repeating my first miserable experience, so I have some questions about installing using the default 'simple' method.

I have two hard-drives in my machine. The first is devoted to Vista and I have partitioned the second (500-GB) drive half-and-half, one half for Windows and leaving about 250 GB of free space for Ubuntu.

So, doing the default 'simple' install:

(1) Can I assume that if I select the option to install alongside Windows this guarantees that from this point on it will be impossible for any part of my Windows installation to be overwritten?

(2) When it comes to setting the Ubuntu partitions what would be a reasonable allocation of space for each? During the previous attempt at installation my free space (250-GB) was split roughly half-and-half between /dev/sdb5 and /dev/sdb6 (I take it this latter is the Ubuntu swap space).

(3) Doing the simple install there does not appear to be any way of specifying where the bootloader should be installed. In fact, by default I think it installed to the drive on which I installed Ubuntu, which I presume is why I couldn't boot Windows. I presume that the bootloader should have installed in /dev/sda1, is this correct or should that be just /dev/sda? But how do I specify this during the simple installation? I was never prompted for this information.

Your advice would be much appreciated.

Regards, Nick.

owiknowi
December 24th, 2010, 01:39 PM
(1) Can I assume that if I select the option to install alongside Windows this guarantees that from this point on it will be impossible for any part of my Windows installation to be overwritten?

* everything that can go wrong will go wrong, count on it (murphy's company did anyway).

(2) When it comes to setting the Ubuntu partitions what would be a reasonable allocation of space for each? During the previous attempt at installation my free space (250-GB) was split roughly half-and-half between /dev/sdb5 and /dev/sdb6 (I take it this latter is the Ubuntu swap space).

* depends a bit on what you want in the end with your ubuntu.
a pretty general partition scheme is:
1. 60GB for /
2. 4GB (4096MB) for swap
3. rest for /home

(3)...
* by default the bootloader is installed in the mbr where now ms windos loader resides.
ms windos automatically is added by ubuntu (in most cases).

theasprint
December 24th, 2010, 01:47 PM
Hi,

First thing. There has been a major change in the installation GUI for Ubuntu 10.10.
Therefore users who wants to make Advance options may not be able to find them in the places they used to be found.

1. Most probably yes. You just make sure that there is the unallocated space for Ubuntu to land itself into, and Ubuntu will be good neighbors with Windows. However, this would make Grub2 be the default bootloader (Further answers in No.3). If you want Windows bootloader to be your default bootloader then there is some other way to do it, I'm not sure. But recommended that you use Grub2.

2. If you don't mind you can ask Ubuntu to set their partition table for you. But considering that you want to set it yourself, and you want to only make the root and swap partitions (you can make others if you like), then read my next sentence. If you have lots of HDD space, like more than 30GB, then you can set your Swap space the same amount as your physical RAM. If not then you just allocate half your RAM size for swap. The rest would be for your Ubuntu installation of course.

3. As mentioned at the start, there has been a major change in the installation GUI for Ubuntu 10.10. I remember reading somewhere about where to find the Advanced Options for setting the Grub install location in Ubuntu 10.10 installation process but I just can't seem to find the link back for you.

However what I do remember is that the Advanced Options should be around the setting partitions part. (The one with the dragging divider I RMB) Its best if you LOOK CAREFULLY at the installation process from START to BOTTOM so that you would not miss it out because I really can't help you on this one.

And yes, for your reconfirmation, Grub2 should be installed on the MBR of the HDD, which is /dev/sda. But I hear it is ok if you install it on /dev/sda1, which is the default for the Ubuntu 10.10 installation process. But please do change it, or there are bigger chances problems can be caused while updating Grub or something.

Hope I did not miss anything unanswered.

Quackers
December 24th, 2010, 03:30 PM
It is likely that the only thing that was over-written was the Windows bootloader. This is normal as that's where grub2 goes. Once Ubuntu was booted up, if you had opened a terminal and run
sudo update-grub your problem is likely to have been fixed.
One word of warning though. With the 10.10 installer it is safer to select "specify manually" in the partitioning phase rather than "install alongside", then set up the Ubuntu partitions yourself. At least that way you know that nothing will be overwritten.

kansasnoob
December 24th, 2010, 04:33 PM
(1) Can I assume that if I select the option to install alongside Windows this guarantees that from this point on it will be impossible for any part of my Windows installation to be overwritten?

NO!

There have been some major changes to the Live Installer (aka: ubiquity) in Ubuntu 10.10/Maverick. Please look at posts #1 and #15 here:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1622388

But in your particular case you'd have needed to use the “Specify partitions manually (advanced)” option even with the older version of ubiquity.


I have two hard-drives in my machine. The first is devoted to Vista and I have partitioned the second (500-GB) drive half-and-half, one half for Windows and leaving about 250 GB of free space for Ubuntu.

I helped update this guide and we're getting close:

http://members.iinet.net.au/~herman546/p22.html

I know it doesn't all apply to you but it gives some general directions. I'd be glad to provide more detailed instructions tailored to your specific situation but I'd first want to see the output of these two commands with the new bare drive installed:


sudo parted -l


free

Nick Hopton
December 24th, 2010, 09:56 PM
Firstly, thanks to those above who offered advice. I did try a re-install of 10.10 and at least at the end of it I could still boot Vista, sort of, it booted via Windows Recovery. During installation I asked that Ubuntu should be installed in an existing 250 GB partition on my second disk, selecting about 240 GB for the system and about 10 GB for swapping. In the event my selection was ignored and I ended-up with three partitions, one of about 220 GB (empty) with the sytem installed in /dev/sdb6 (about 20 GB) and the swap in /dev/sdb7 (about 10 GB). So, all-in-all, a pretty miserable experience.

What I've decided to do now it to walk away from Ubuntu, certainly until the very serious problems with the installer have been put right.

Once again, thanks for your efforts.

Regards, Nick.

owiknowi
December 25th, 2010, 04:41 AM
won't bother you with more advice but one or two things could make it easier for you.

1. personally i only use ubuntu LTS versions, like 10.04.1
the pro's are for example: more stable, longer support, better tested.
con's can be you don't always get the latest software.

2. i prefer grub prior to v.2. that one is stable, easy to edit/adjust and, as far as i know, has no bugs anymore.

when using a dual boot you also can use the windos bootloader by installing easybcd in windos.

use a plain installation cd and just install the ubuntu bootloader into it's root partition (use the advanced option during partitioning).

start windos and add it using easybcd.

the latter has a big advantage: don't want an other operating system any longer? just delete the partitions and remove the entry from easybcd.

you can also visit http://distrowatch.com to look or search for an other open source operating system that fits your needs (try the live cd's).

and please don't hesitate to ask what you(!) need to get your system started!

best regards, owiknowi

efflandt
December 25th, 2010, 12:52 PM
It still sounds like you are doing something wrong with the install (something automatic instead of "manual" partitioning). So it split up the 250 GB partition, but not like you wanted it.

What you should do is boot to a live system from the install CD. Use gparted to remove that 250 GB partition (or whatever other partitions in got split into. Create your 240 GB partition as ext4, and 10 GB as swap. Then during install use manual partitioning to select your 240 GB partition as / and it will automatically find your swap.

At the bottom of that manual partition screen, select to put grub on /dev/sdb. Then set your BIOS to boot your second hard drive, and that will leave Windows and its mbr untouched. grub on sdb should be able to boot either Ubuntu on sdb or Windows on sda. That is basically what I did, except sdb is an SSD and I have 8 GB RAM, so I have no swap (which with that much RAM is only need for hibernate, suspend works without swap).

Then if something ever goes wrong or you decide you do not want to use Ubuntu, you can simply switch your boot drive back to your 1st drive and Windows should boot itself normally.

Some people may suggest using 3 partitions for /, /home, and swap. Not sure how much to allocate for each, but 50 GB should be plenty for / and swap just needs to be slightly larger than your RAM, so the rest could be /home.

Nick Hopton
December 26th, 2010, 06:57 PM
Onec again, many thanks to those who offered advice on my problems with installing 10.10. Thanks to your help I have now managed to install Ubuntu exactly where I wanted it to be, without losing the ability to boot Vista.

This was an excellent Christmas present and your advice was greatly appreciated.

Regards, Nick.

Quackers
December 27th, 2010, 01:43 AM
Very nice :-) Enjoy!