Did wireless internet exist before 802.11?

[brawnypandora0]

Also, why is it named 802.11? What's significant about that five digit number?

[bhaverkamp]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11

IEEE 802.11 is a set of standards carrying out wireless local area network (WLAN) computer communication in the 2.4, 3.6 and 5 GHz frequency bands. They are created and maintained by the IEEE LAN/MAN Standards Committee (IEEE 802). The base current version of the standard is IEEE 802.11-2007.

[prat22]

Also, why is it named 802.11? What's significant about that five digit number?

802.11 is the protocol number assigned by IEEE for standardization of wireless communication. It has different numbers assigned for different technology, and 802 is for wireless. 11a, 11b, represents the pattern of wireless protocol.

Wireless communication existed before such protocol was introduced. But it was not developed like present day!! The protocol defined the use of data link layer pattern.

[Elfy]

moved to cafe

[Frak]

Yeah. Before IEEE, it was usually customary to purchase access points and wireless-peripherals based on the manufacturer. Companies used generally a "close" standard together before the IEEE standard, but compatibility was never guaranteed.

[lz1dsb]

Before IEEE 802.11 standards for wireless networking, there were proprietary wireless standards for sending data over the radio waves. Even the Ethernet started as a standard by applying an algorithm which was originally used in radio networks (CSMA/CD in Ethernet CSMA/CA is used, which is a slight modification).
The ham radio operators also used (probably some are still using) specialized equipment to connect to their rig, so that they can send packet data over the radio waves...

[zer010]

I found some info on using shortwave as a transmission medium for P2P data transfer, but I'd have to find it again. I was interested in it for emergency purposes in case the entire wired net came crashing down.;)

[ki4jgt]

Before IEEE 802.11 standards for wireless networking, there were proprietary wireless standards for sending data over the radio waves. Even the Ethernet started as a standard by applying an algorithm which was originally used in radio networks (CSMA/CD in Ethernet CSMA/CA is used, which is a slight modification).
The ham radio operators also used (probably some are still using) specialized equipment to connect to their rig, so that they can send packet data over the radio waves...

Yep. that is still around (Ham radio ops using data to not only share the internet, but create another one) If I read correctly. We also setup winlink access points on certain frequencies so sailors may send email over amateur radio. However, federal law requires that all data sent over amateur radio be unencrypted. (Very bad security for personal information.)

[lz1dsb]

Yeah, I think we have the same legislation here in Bulgaria. Whatever you send over the ham radio frequencies, it shouldn't be encrypted...
I just thought that there are other possibilities for non-802.11 wireless. There are many not so expensive tranceiver modules (in the FM ham radio bands for example 144 or 434 MHz), which can be utilized for data transmissions between devices. I've always wanted to try out one, but I haven't found the time so far :( (It's pity that I was selling once such tranceiver modules...)
And off course there's always the possibility to build your own digital modulator (QPSK, PSK etc.). Probably there are also such modules available...

Cheers,
Boyan

[treesurf]

That's interesting. Wouldn't you need near perfect radio reception to get uncorrupted data transmission?

[ki4jgt]

That's interesting. Wouldn't you need near perfect radio reception to get uncorrupted data transmission?

Nope, because of the narrow bandwidth it is easier to maintain the data. (it is however painfully slow) I haven't read into this in forever so forgive me if I tell you the wrong thing, but amateur radio is on a different packet system. I think normal computer packet is (8 maybe???) Well anyway certain ham packeting systems use one less (7). Again, I got my license in 05 and haven't studied since :-) Plus it's the goal of amateur radio to pass traffic in disaster situations. To meet this goal you if properly trained are supposed to believe that a message can in no way be altered from it's original source. The belief is if you have to ask for the message 100 times you should to get it correct.

[juancarlospaco]

802.11AC

GigaWifi

[arvevans]

In the very early days of computers (Imsai, Apple-I, Ohio-Scientific II-P, Comodore PET, etc.) many of us hams were using 300 baud and 1200 baud radio modems to exchange information between computers. These conformed to none of today's standards but were loosely based on FSK (Frequency Shift Carrier) tone transmission. Prior to computers many hams used RTTY (Radio Teletype) systems that sent frequency shift tones as radio data. Going back even further, hams have always used various hand-keyed data, most frequently Morse Code, to send data over the airwaves.

So, wireless data transmission did exist way before there was DARPA Net or it's spin-off that we know today as the Internet.

[ki4jgt]

In the very early days of computers (Imsai, Apple-I, Ohio-Scientific II-P, Comodore PET, etc.) many of us hams were using 300 baud and 1200 baud radio modems to exchange information between computers. These conformed to none of today's standards but were loosely based on FSK (Frequency Shift Carrier) tone transmission. Prior to computers many hams used RTTY (Radio Teletype) systems that sent frequency shift tones as radio data. Going back even further, hams have always used various hand-keyed data, most frequently Morse Code, to send data over the airwaves.

So, wireless data transmission did exist way before there was DARPA Net or it's spin-off that we know today as the Internet.

Expanding on this: I would also like to point out that most modern communication innovations were thought up (or at least used way before the general public) by amateur radio operators not trying to toot anyone's horn, but just pointing out that most protocols are used years ahead of being released to the general population

[Dr. C]

TCP/IP over packet radio dates from the 1970's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet. The wireless version of the "Victorian Internet" aka the telegraph dates from the late 1890's. The first transatlantic data transmission by Marconi was in 1901.

[ki4jgt]

TCP/IP over packet radio dates from the 1970's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet. The wireless version of the "Victorian Internet" aka the telegraph dates from the late 1890's. The first transatlantic data transmission by Marconi was in 1901.

Then you have your cellphones, satalite towers modern police radios and a lot more.

[NMFTM]

That's interesting. Wouldn't you need near perfect radio reception to get uncorrupted data transmission?
Even if the data was heavily corrupted during transmission. Wouldn't they just solve it through hashing like they do with any other medium where data integrity is important?

[lz1dsb]

Even if the data was heavily corrupted during transmission. Wouldn't they just solve it through hashing like they do with any other medium where data integrity is important?

Yeah,
As far as I know similar hashing techniques are used in wired baseband communications are used...

Cheers,
Boyan