Vista article explaining the dissapointment

[GoldBuggie]

Vista will be interesting to see. As are most major upgrades of OS, be it ubuntu, os x or whatever. This article gives a rather interesting view on the subject and mentiones things that I also thought would be microsofts bad touch. One can only wait and see.

http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5308_05.asp

On a side note...The 25 year old brother of my girl refuses to belive that many MANY things that Vista provides are already out there in form of OS X or Linux.

[towsonu2003]

No one's gonna notice them...

[LMP900]

I know how you feel. Despite all of the disappointments, it will still be installed in almost every PC people buy. The majority out there have no idea what was promised to them years ago, so they will think that Microsoft has done an excellent job upgrading their software. It's an improvement, but not what we were promised.

I can already see my friends bragging to me about the "awesome new features" they have when they get Vista... I'll just take it and let them enjoy their shiny new operating system.

I'll just sit back and enjoy my Ubuntu and OS X Tiger (actually, i'll probably have Leopard by then).

[Stormy Eyes]

So, it's going to suck, it's going to treat the user like a moron, and the suckers are going to lap it up anyway. This is why I say that some people deserve to use Microsoft Windows.

[BarfBag]

So, it's going to suck, it's going to treat the user like a moron, and the suckers are going to lap it up anyway. This is why I say that some people deserve to use Microsoft Windows.

Here here!

[krusbjorn]

So, it's going to suck, it's going to treat the user like a moron, and the suckers are going to lap it up anyway. This is why I say that some people deserve to use Microsoft Windows.

When it comes to computers, a lot of people (my parents for example) are morons, so I guess it will suit them perfectly since they dont have the time to learn not to be morons :D

[not28]

Good read, very honest.

[wylfing]

I know how you feel. Despite all of the disappointments, it will still be installed in almost every PC people buy.

That fact may not be sufficient. Virtualization is getting to be so easy and effective that buying new machines isn't all that necessary anymore, and web applications are rapidly approaching the point where a lot of infrastructure can be commoditized (e.g., Exchange). Macintosh holds all the hip mindshare, and Ubuntu wins on the price/quality front (and in fact is roughly equal in quality to XP in my opinion) -- those facts make OEMs reconsider what they're selling.

It's actually going to be a tough sell to get Vista into people's hands when nobody wants to upgrade and OEMs are less than thrilled at bundling it.

[NeghVar]

It's actually going to be a tough sell to get Vista into people's hands when nobody wants to upgrade and OEMs are less than thrilled at bundling it.

Im sorry but your wrong. I don't like MS but lets face it, people will buy there stuff regardless of what they put out. I find it interesting that the article pointed out how botched the UAP is going to be, I pointed that out a while ago that they would find a way to mess it up.

[wylfing]

Im sorry but your wrong. I don't like MS but lets face it, people will buy there stuff regardless of what they put out.

Er, nobody is arguing that.

However, getting deep market penetration with XP has been very difficult for Microsoft, and their competition has been quite flimsy during XP's lifetime. The competition is now much stronger, and the reasons to upgrade (including buying new computers) are now much weaker than when XP came out.

[djlosch]

so you trade down for the shackles of OS level drm (does it employ the tpm chip that is already attached to most big name computers already?), but get a composite manager.

the problem with drm is that it needs to be transparent to the true owner. current drm models are just so clearly evident to the user. i should not be limited to printing a pdf 10 times, or being able to view it for only 30 days if i have paid for it. if i want to move my music from 1 computer to another, i should not have to go through some silly checkin checkout bs, or be unable to do it at all.

edit: i forgot to mention, you get the osx docker and gdesklets. you also get to pay for 'virus protection' from the same company that is selling you the buggy software that the viruses are getting through with.

[LMP900]

wylfing, you might be right. But when do you think products such as Ubuntu and Mac OS X will start to appeal to the non-tech savvy crowd?

Maybe tech-savvy is not the right word---I'm not saying that everyone running OS X and Linux are necessarily that, but I mean the people that just don't realize/care that there are alternatives (i.e. everyone I'm around it seems like). I just don't see the majority them seeking alternatives to Windows. They'll still buy a PC with good spec's and it will just happen to have Vista installed.

You're right though, if anything will come near Windows and Vista, it will have to be the OEM's to make the initial move. Most people buy their computers from the big name manufacturers, so until they start seeing alternative operating systems installed in the computer they purchased, they will stick to Windows that's already on there.

[briancurtin]

Here here!
its "hear, hear" and why would you respond with that?

[Sushi]

Good read, very honest.

And it's written by a Windows-fanboy. Like I said before elsewhere: Vista is a failure. Yes, it will propably bring big bucks to MS, but there's more to success and failure than that. It offers just a fraction of features MS promised. The new UI is nothing but an annoying layer of sugar (transparent windows? Give me a break!). Vista offers NOTHING that competition doesn't offer today. When Vista arrives, people will use it and think "Do I REALLY need this stuff? No I do not".

Vista will propably be the last product of the Microsoft we know. Mark my words: After Vista ships, there will be big changes at Microsoft. Heads will roll.

[awakatanka]

Vista will propably be the last product of the Microsoft we know. Mark my words: After Vista ships, there will be big changes at Microsoft. Heads will roll.
Lots said the samething about xp. To much candy nothing changed compared to 2k. And yet lots use it. The same will be true for vista.

Do we all need those extra in other apps, nope but we all buy/copy the new app anyway. Do we need a rotating desktop? nope. Do we need rain on our desktop nope. Still we use it. Transparent windows are also in linux and lots use it.

People complain if things are not in, but if they put it to early they complain about bugs. I rather have it Later with a servicepack then a bugged thing.
Nothing will change.

[wylfing]

Lots said the samething about xp. To much candy nothing changed compared to 2k. And yet lots use it. The same will be true for vista.

You are right: a lot of people will use Vista. It's just that significant market penetration of Vista is going to take a very, very long time, and may never materialize. I am not forecasting doom for Microsoft, but Vista is going to be a tougher sell than XP was, which was quite a tough sell in its own right (a lot of computers still run Windows 98 and 2000). Getting people to switch again will be met with great resistance.

They have the same problem with Office. Nobody wants to upgrade, especially when they are insulted by ads calling them dinosaurs.


when do you think products such as Ubuntu and Mac OS X will start to appeal

Mac and Ubuntu have tons of caché right now. Ubuntu desktops are still a bit of a hard sell, but I believe that will change over the next 12 months as virtualization goes mainstream. For medium and large corporations that would be a godsend in IT savings -- reuse all your old Windows licenses to run virtualized Windows instances where you need it, and run a well-managed Linux desktop for the rest of it.

[BoyOfDestiny]

Lots said the samething about xp. To much candy nothing changed compared to 2k. And yet lots use it. The same will be true for vista.

Do we all need those extra in other apps, nope but we all buy/copy the new app anyway. Do we need a rotating desktop? nope. Do we need rain on our desktop nope. Still we use it. Transparent windows are also in linux and lots use it.

People complain if things are not in, but if they put it to early they complain about bugs. I rather have it Later with a servicepack then a bugged thing.
Nothing will change.

There are some differences now. Back then the more "tech" savvy users had win2k. For games and driver support, people were using 98SE (and sadly some people windows ME == 98+crap). How many home users did you know with win2k? I knew none.
The jump from 98 to XP is a big one, due to the 9x kernel and all the problems that went with it, not to mention fat32 to ntfs.

The other issue is that upgrading machines may have made a bigger difference, I dunno about you, but my 1.8ghz is "enough". The only time I want more CPU power is for compiling... For users just checking mail, surfing, etc, their current machines are likely more than adequate...

Thanks to Ubuntu I don't "need" a new computer with a new OS release. This has been the marketing scheme for ages, MS make more bloated OS, users buy the next Intel chip. Call me a cynic, but that's how I saw it. :P

Anyway, I hope Sushi is right. There is nothing I'd like more than Vista to fail. I want Linux and other alternative OS's use to skyrocket. Why?

To avoid the monoculture that is MS. The thought of companies developing crossplatform and possibly open tools is pretty cool. I'm not a fan of IE only. I'm not looking forward to MS's new office formats coming in email attachments... *shudder*.

And for those wondering, even if Linux gains huge marketshare, I don't think it will result in a monoculture. If you look at anything, architecture, audio players, video players, word processors, even just DE's, there will always be more than one. There is cooperation and loads of competition. That's the way I like it.

[Stormy Eyes]

Vista will propably be the last product of the Microsoft we know. Mark my words: After Vista ships, there will be big changes at Microsoft. Heads will roll.

I doubt that the heads to roll will belong to management. Instead, the programmers will be blamed for implementing their bosses' stupidity. Take it from somebody with 6 years of experience as a programmer: when an application sucks, there's a 70% probability that bad management is to blame.

[Sushi]

Lots said the samething about xp. To much candy nothing changed compared to 2k. And yet lots use it. The same will be true for vista.

But this time things are different. Linux is ready for the desktop. It really is. Maybe not on ALL desktops (what is?) but for most tasks, Linux is enough. And Apple is doing REALLY well, and there are lots of people just waiting for a good excuse to switch to Mac. Vista had been a disaster, it's developement has been restarted, features has been dropped, they had to move in a new manager to Windows-division (from the Office-division) in order to finish Vista. Vista and Microsoft are collapsing under their own weight.

Will lots of people use Vista? absolutely! But Microsoft knows that Vista is a failure. People in the know know that Vista is a failure. In on itself it might be a worthy sucessor to XP (ANYTHING would be). And before, Microsoft did well because there was nothing really to compare their OS to, except it's predecessor. But today their new releases will be compared to Linux and OS X. And in both cases, Vista falls short. It's too little, too late. Yes, geeks compared Windows to Linux in the past as well, but back in 2001 (when XP was released) Linux was NOT there yet. Today it is. And how about MacOS back in 2001? It was good, but it wasn't talked about. Today everybody knows Apple and Macs. Today, things are VERY different when compared to time when XP was released.


Transparent windows are also in linux and lots use it.

But in Vista, they actually make the system harder to use. Screenshot of XGL usually show unfocused windows as "faded out". And that is a good thing, it helps draw the users eyes to the focused windows. In Vista everything is transparent, and the differences between unfocused and focused windows is minimal. Transparent windows are not a bad thing. They are a bad thing when they are done badly. They are done badly in Vista.

[Mr_J_]

Like a smart person said. Some people deserve to use Vista!

I've always believed MSFT isn't a totally stupid yet complex organization, but sometimes it sure looks like it...

I still think that Vista has features that aren't shown to anyone until the final release. I hope that it makes Windows be reformulated into a nice piece of software.

I'll have to use it some time or another.

There were some problems I'll definatelly need to turn off to make a usable windows Vista, but otherwise Vista might be just a little annoying.
Some colour changes to innactive windows or some sort of changes to colour to make the Z index on the windows show. A colour gradient would fix that problem with the windows top and lower being unseen.

That windows wants my permission several times to do things I already said is a nice protection scheme to make people mad. Crazy even.

I can see it now!


MicroSoft has announed today that due to the failue of their Flag Product Windows Vista in 2007 that they are purchasing Apple. The old Windows division will from now on validate, and aprove all new drivers to be used in the new Operating system called Appows.

[awakatanka]

There are some differences now. Back then the more "tech" savvy users had win2k. For games and driver support, people were using 98SE (and sadly some people windows ME == 98+crap). How many home users did you know with win2k? I knew none.
The jump from 98 to XP is a big one, due to the 9x kernel and all the problems that went with it, not to mention fat32 to ntfs.
.
Back then i worked for a OEM builder, we shipped lots of 98se when ME was there we did it for a short time and when 2k was there we shipped again lots of it.

ME was big crap at that time very instabiel but people did buy it and used it. A few complained but the majorty didn't know better.

For you and me 98 to xp is a big step but for people that don't know anything it isn't. Its just another preinstalled OS on there new and shiny pc.

People will take this crap and they will do it also with vista. And remember also thats still a beta/rc and lots of things can be changed (speed,looks).

[xenmax]

BoyOfDestiny[/U]]windows ME == 98+crapI used it once. I think its just windows ME = crap, unless ofcourse you had win98 = crap in your book as well ;)

[xenmax]

Quoted from article:

Because it failed so obviously with Vista, my guess is that Microsoft is a bit gun shy about major OS releases and will be for some time.
Well, with Edgy Eft, you can say Ubuntu is trigger happy!!

[jason.b.c]

So, it's going to suck, it's going to treat the user like a moron, and the suckers are going to lap it up anyway. This is why I say that some people deserve to use Microsoft Windows.


True, Thats true , most people just don't understand what there doing anyway so when they see this shiny new OS they'll be grabbing it up left and right..