Sanity please: No one has said that Ubuntu will become rolling-release

[NCLI]

I know there is a thread about this, but most people is just going to read the first post, and it does contain a bit of FUD.

First of all, let's read the actual quote from Mark Shuttleworth:

"Today we have a six-month release cycle," Shuttleworth said. "In an internet-oriented world, we need to be able to release something every day.

"That's an area we will put a lot of work into in the next five years. The small steps we are putting in to the Software Center today, they will go further and faster than people might have envisioned in the past."
This doesn't sond like a true rolling release, it sounds like the core system will remain consistent, while only the userland applications, which is what the Software Center is mostly aimed towards, will be kept up-to-date.

Also, note that he doesn't say "do a release every day," just "release something every day."

It's definitely great news, but please don't blow this out of proportion.

Matthew Paul Thomas, an Ubuntu developer, added this in the other thread:

It’s no secret that for more than five years, Mark has wanted a daily build of Ubuntu, codenamed Grumpy Groundhog. However, that would only ever be for testing, not for release.

It’s easy for Arch and Gentoo to have rolling releases, because pretty much nobody uses Arch or Gentoo. With Ubuntu, though, we have actual support customers, and actual factories pressing CDs, and actual training courses, and actual book publishers, and most of all, actual OEMs, who find it hard enough keeping up with a release every six months. Releasing more often than that would be hopeless.

Among other things, I do much of the design for Ubuntu Software Center, which Mark mentioned in his quote. By design, though, USC has pretty much nothing to do with the Ubuntu upgrade process. What some of us would like to do, however, is make it possible for application developers to issue updates for their applications on whatever day they feel like, rather than having to wait for people to upgrade their entire operating system. For an overview of that topic, see the talks that I and Evan Dandrea gave at UDS last month.

So, now you’re more informed than the people who read The Register, or OMG Ubuntu, or OStatic, or WebUpd8. Not because I’m telling you any secrets, but because the writers for those sites are just bad.

[malspa]

Thanks. I felt like the title of the article, "Ubuntu to Become a Rolling Release" (http://ostatic.com/blog/ubuntu-to-become-a-rolling-release) did not accurately represent what Shuttleworth actually said.

[cariboo]

Thanks for that, I actually quite enjoyed the thread, especially with mpt (Matthew Paul Thomas, Canonical's Interface designer), fanning the flames. :)

[madjr]

party poopers!

[lovinglinux]

Those articles should include this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2jfzXaoF30

[juancarlospaco]

You can use Arch repos on Ubuntu...

[madjr]

well jono is live:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/at-home-with-jono-bacon

[Paqman]

Essentially what he was talking about was an improvement over the current SRU/PPA system for getting updated packages into a stable release. Ubuntu's release schedule is designed to mirror Gnome's, there no suggestion anywhere of changing it.

[lovinglinux]

well jono is live:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/at-home-with-jono-bacon

Cool. Bookmarked.

[handy]

I agree, it is very likely true that Ubuntu won't become a true RR distro. For better or worse.

What I picked up from the videos I've seen is that if Canonical doesn't find a way to compete with Apple & Google Android, then it probably won't be behind Ubuntu in 10 years time.

As I see it, Canonical are desperately trying to come up with a solution that makes Ubuntu competitive with the aforementioned corporations. Ubuntu doesn't have the numbers of users, the same kind of exposure to the masses, nor does Canonical have the billions of dollars that their opposition has.

The truth of the matter has hit home at Canonical & they are now looking for anything outside of the box that just might attract lots of new users.

[malspa]

It is very likely true that Ubuntu won't become a true RR distro.

As the title of this thread says...

[handy]

As the title of this thread says...

OH! I missed that bit! :p

Sorry for stating the obvious. :rolleyes:

[handy]

In a purely hypothetical scenario, where in 8 years time Canonical could no longer be able to afford to support Ubuntu, I guess that Canonical could sell themselves to the highest bidder.

Perhaps Canonical would be bought by Oracle, & the UF would then be infiltrated by Oracle's marketroids.

Or maybe MS would think that buying Canonical would be a good laugh. Steve could hang it in his trophy room.

[wilee-nilee]

party poopers!

+1 Thats what I say don't rain on my imagined reality now.;)

[NCLI]

I agree, it is very likely true that Ubuntu won't become a true RR distro. For better or worse.

What I picked up from the videos I've seen is that if Canonical doesn't find a way to compete with Apple & Google Android, then it probably won't be behind Ubuntu in 10 years time.
Source? All I've heard is that everything is going as expected, except for the stubborn OEMs.


As I see it, Canonical are desperately trying to come up with a solution that makes Ubuntu competitive with the aforementioned corporations. Ubuntu doesn't have the numbers of users, the same kind of exposure to the masses, nor does Canonical have the billions of dollars that their opposition has.

The truth of the matter has hit home at Canonical & they are now looking for anything outside of the box that just might attract lots of new users.
Of course Canonical is trying to become profitable, but I really don't think anyone could call changing Ubuntu into a partial Rolling Release distro will directly aid this goal, other than improving the user experience, and I don't see any of their recent moves as being the desperate acts of a company in a hurry to turn a profit. They all look like well thought out long-term plans to me.

I'm especially encouraged by Mark talking time frames of "5-10 years," that certainly doesn't sound like the words of a man who's in a hurry.

party poopers!
Sorry :p

[Dustin2128]

FUD? Rolling release isn't exactly what I'd associate with fear uncertainty and doubt.

[NCLI]

FUD? Rolling release isn't exactly what I'd associate with fear uncertainty and doubt.

It's spreading fear uncertainty and doubt about the future direction of Ubuntu. Just read the other thread, several people are afraid of Ubuntu becoming a RR. But more importantly: It's a completely unfounded claim.

[hhh]

The truth of the matter has hit home at Canonical & they are now looking for anything outside of the box that just might attract lots of new users.
This statement made me think that they also are looking for ways not to lose more users. I mean, right now Ubuntu doesn't have the best implementation of Gnome (Debian Gnome runs lighter and faster), Kubuntu doesn't have the best implementation of KDE (package management aside, I'd take openSuse over it in a heartbeat), and Xubuntu doesn't have the best implementation of Xfce (pick any other Xfce distro).

Case in point, I started on Ubuntu, I'm now on aptosid, you started on Ubuntu, you're now on Arch.

[wilee-nilee]

Pure speculation all the way around do any of you really care; with like 300 or more open source platforms out there.

[handy]

Source? All I've heard is that everything is going as expected, except for the stubborn OEMs.

The vid's were posted by someone else in one of these threads on the topic.

I might go looking later, but not now, I don't feel like it. :)



Of course Canonical is trying to become profitable, but I really don't think anyone could call changing Ubuntu into a partial Rolling Release distro will directly aid this goal, other than improving the user experience, and I don't see any of their recent moves as being the desperate acts of a company in a hurry to turn a profit. They all look like well thought out long-term plans to me.

Canonical are comparing their own figures with those of much younger technology from both Apple & Google. Canonical is not going anywhere whilst their so called opposition is absolutely screaming ahead. This is what is freaking them out. (As best I can see anyway.) So they are seriously reviewing their business plan & searching for anything that can actually allow them to truly compete. 'Cause as it is, Ubuntu is no competition or threat, at least to those two mega corps anyway.



I'm especially encouraged by Mark talking time frames of "5-10 years," that certainly doesn't sound like the words of a man who's in a hurry.

Sorry :p

If you lose hope you toss it in & go & do something else. Mark obviously still has hope & is trying to find a way to sustain his dream.

[johntaylor1887]

You can use Arch repos on Ubuntu...

Yeah, and you can install Synaptic on Slackware. ;)

[handy]

Pure speculation all the way around do any of you really care; with like 300 or more open source platforms out there.

I care.

I love this community, I think it is brilliant. This has to be the best Linux distro forum in the world. It has a huge user base, it is incredibly well/intelligently moderated & Ubuntu is trying to be better & in more diverse hardware situations as well - phones & other smallish devices.

I would be very sad for a while if the Ubuntu community got sick & died, I would consider it to be a great loss to the Linux community.

[Johnsie]

I think people are starting to realise that Ubuntu has lost the operating systems war. We had our chance when Vista sucked, but Apple came along and took our spot as the leading competitor. Microsoft gave it to us on a platter and we blew it.

Now we have operating systems like Android for bigger screens, ChromeOS and even Jolicloud (based on Ubuntu but alot better looking)coming out. Ubuntu is really struggling to find a place in the market. People are trying to come out with new ideas for Ubuntu, but those ideas have been questionable of late.

Ubuntu has lost it's direction and is trying (and failing miserably) to copy Apple.

[NCLI]

Canonical are comparing their own figures with those of much younger technology from both Apple & Google. Canonical is not going anywhere whilst their so called opposition is absolutely screaming ahead. This is what is freaking them out. (As best I can see anyway.) So they are seriously reviewing their business plan & searching for anything that can actually allow them to truly compete. 'Cause as it is, Ubuntu is no competition or threat, at least to those two mega corps anyway.
Thing is, I don't think Canonical is trying to really compete with Microsoft or Apple right now, since the know their product just isn't quite there yet in some ways. It feels to me like they're fine with gradually evolving Ubuntu, and not expecting any big sudden leaps.

I think people are starting to realise that Ubuntu has lost the operating systems war. We had our chance when Vista sucked, but Apple came along and took our spot as the leading competitor. Microsoft gave it to us on a platter and we blew it.
No, we just weren't ready. Not to mention OEMs weren't ready.


Now we have operating systems like Android for bigger screens, ChromeOS and even Jolicloud (based on Ubuntu but alot better looking)coming out. Ubuntu is really struggling to find a place in the market. People are trying to come out with new ideas for Ubuntu, but those ideas have been questionable of late.
Ubuntu is still by far the dominant Linux distribution accroding to Wikipedia's visitor statistics, so to say that it has failed seems a little pre-mature.


Ubuntu has lost it's direction and is trying (and failing miserably) to copy Apple.
They're trying to create a user friendly interface. I don't think they're copying Apple as much as taking inspiration from them. All software takes inspiration from other software, just like books and movies.

[malspa]

I think people are starting to realise that Ubuntu has lost the operating systems war.

If so, it's of no concern to me. I use Linux (not just Ubuntu) and I won't be going back to using Windows, and won't be purchasing a Mac. I couldn't care less about what other people use.

[stmiller]

If so, it's of no concern to me. I use Linux (not just Ubuntu) and I won't be going back to using Windows, and won't be purchasing a Mac. I couldn't care less about what other people use.

++

[madjr]

I think people are starting to realise that Ubuntu has lost the operating systems war.


You must be kidding me.

Ubuntu has not really entered the OEM war yet.

is testing the grounds right now.

They are looking to become established first in the business, server area and public sectors.

Now once they get unity and the new commercial base in software center ready, they'll really target the end user market.

expect them to really make a move by the next lts 12.04.

The only one that has a LOT to lose in the upcoming years is Windows.

Linux and apple are just gona go up.

We dont even need that much market share. Linux would be a monster with just half the market share that commercial OSs need.

We also just need a small % of the resources they need.

Its impossible to kill open source/standards too once established, thats why they're so afraid. Thats why they're gatthering patents, because the only weapon they have to attract consumers/oems is "ease of use" and we're pretty much there.

[handy]

Thing is, I don't think Canonical is trying to really compete with Microsoft or Apple right now, since the know their product just isn't quite there yet in some ways. It feels to me like they're fine with gradually evolving Ubuntu, and not expecting any big sudden leaps.

Canonical are a business. They have business expenses, they need to make a profit & hopefully afford to be able to spend more money on development & marketing.



No, we just weren't ready. Not to mention OEMs weren't ready.

The OEMs would quickly become ready if Canonical had an irresistable product. (which Canonical would of course love to have already created.)

As the market changes due to new technological releases, windows of opportunity occasionally open. The Netbook was one, where Ubuntu had a chance but was basically squeezed out for more than one reason. The hand-held devices market is another window of opportunity, but Ubuntu has basically been left way behind & can't catch up. Canonical know this & are trying to find a way to still get on that train, a train that is drawing further away every second.



Ubuntu is still by far the dominant Linux distribution accroding to Wikipedia's visitor statistics, so to say that it has failed seems a little pre-mature.

Ubuntu is one of the big fish in a small pond.

[wilee-nilee]

I care.

I love this community, I think it is brilliant. This has to be the best Linux distro forum in the world. It has a huge user base, it is incredibly well/intelligently moderated & Ubuntu is trying to be better & in more diverse hardware situations as well - phones & other smallish devices.

I would be very sad for a while if the Ubuntu community got sick & died, I would consider it to be a great loss to the Linux community.

Is it care or just loyalty? This forum is a good one really the best I have found.

Really though things change, people change, and we have to try to adapt, if we can't; we move on if you get my drift.;)

[Khakilang]

Ubuntu is as good as it is and getting better with each release even thought it is just 6 month apart. So whether or not it is getting ahead with the propriety competitor doesn't bother me. As long as it suits my requirement thats all that matter.

[handy]

Is it care or just loyalty? This forum is a good one really the best I have found.

It is care for the community. (I actually haven't used Ubuntu for years.) I care for the Linux, BSD, Haiku, Amiga & most other alternatives to the prime systems that are driven firstly by promotion & then by leveraging the general populace's often unconscious addiction to the paradigms of consumerism.



Really though things change, people change, and we have to try to adapt, if we can't; we move on if you get my drift.;)

Yes, I get your drift.

If something doesn't suit us, why would we keep using it?

Though it is just a tad more complex than that sounds, as I'm sure you understand... ;)

[keithpeter]

This statement made me think that they also are looking for ways not to lose more users. I mean, right now Ubuntu doesn't have the best implementation of Gnome (Debian Gnome runs lighter and faster)

Agreed the default Ubuntu gnome is heavy on memory and processor, but isn't that by design to enable the dodads and bling that are associated with the 'user experience'? Recent hardware is fast enough so you don't notice.

A netinstall of cli ubuntu 10.04 with gnome-core and gdm screams along and uses less than 100Mb ram on start up on my T42, see signature.