Favorite *punk genera?

[Dustin2128]

About to add a poll, but I'm wondering what your favorite *punk genera is (e.g. steampunk, cyberpunk, biopunk)? I really like steampunk, and am working on a few novels right now. On the other hand, I also like cyberpunk, but that seems overdone. My third favorite would be dieselpunk, tied with clockpunk and atompunk. I just don't like biopunk quite as much. Some examples:
cyberpunk- neuromancer,
steampunk- the wild wild west
dieselpunk- bioshock
atompunk- fallout
biopunk- gattaca
clockpunk- Zelda majora's mask.
I think that was the most times I've ever used the word punk inside 5 minutes.

[Mrandersonjr]

Cyberpunk - Beneath a Steel Sky.

[forrestcupp]

So you're talking about games and not music?

[honkydrum]

I'm thinking Punkpunk.

[Simian Man]

What the hell is this? What is at all punk about any of those examples you gave?

[RiceMonster]

superultramegaopunk > *

[wewantutopia]

Crass

[Dustin2128]

What the hell is this? What is at all punk about any of those examples you gave?
Its just the common name, don't freak out.

[Mark76]

How about Cavorpunk? :D

OT. Did you get lost on your way to www.alternatehistory.com? :mrgreen:

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

What the hell is this? What is at all punk about any of those examples you gave?

Likewise, I guess I'm to old to understand this thread. :lolflag:

[Dustin2128]

How about Cavorpunk? :D

OT. Did you get lost on your way to www.alternatehistory.com? (http://www.alternatehistory.com?) :mrgreen:
hm, never heard of it. Looks interesting though.

[Mark76]

It is. Addictively so :twisted:

[Spice Weasel]

Anyone else feeling completely lost, and the only thing they recognised in this thread was the game 'Beneath a Steel Sky'? :oops:

[Mark76]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steampunk

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biopunk

[forrestcupp]

Since the OP isn't explaining anything, I found out that all of this *punk stuff is a bunch of subgenres of science fiction.

Now that I think about it, I remember the term cyberpunk from the early 90's. I had no idea it was split up into so many different subgenres, though.

You can learn something from this forum everyday.

[Dustin2128]

Since the OP isn't explaining anything, I found out that all of this *punk stuff is a bunch of subgenres of science fiction.

Now that I think about it, I remember the term cyberpunk from the early 90's. I had no idea it was split up into so many different subgenres, though.

You can learn something from this forum everyday.
Sorry- I've known about the subgenres so long that I figured it was semi-common knowledge.

[ve4cib]

I've never actually heard of a couple of those. Teslapunk is new to me, though a brief google hunt reveals that it's generally a synonym of Dieselpunk. What's the difference between the two?

Atompunk is a term I hadn't come across, but I assume it's post-dieselpunk, but pre-cyberpunk; kind of a Cold War-era, atom-powered version of dieslpunk, yes?


Anyway, my top-three of the sub-genre, in order are:

1- Dieselpunk
The fashion is made up of those nice, clean, military-uniform-styled lines, and it's the only one of all the settings with an easy-to-define villain: the Nazis. And let's face it: Nazis with a bunch of sci-fi pseudo-science thrown at them are just awesome bad guys. Scary as hell, but they look awesome doing it, what with their Hugo Boss designed uniforms.

The technology is likewise slick, but practical. It doesn't have the flowery, ostentatious, over-the-top brass of Steampunk, but it still has that experimental, built-by-a-crazy-scientist-in-his-basement-laboratory look to it. It's also not nearly as common as some of the other *punks, which makes it stand out in a crowd a little bit better.

Some of my favourite examples of Dieselpunk:

- Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0346156/) (Probably the most famous recent example of the genre.)
- Tannhauser (http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite.asp?eidm=28&enmi=Tannh%C3%A4user) (A board game by Fantasy Flight Games. The art design is simply fantastic.)
- Weta Workshops' Goliathon 83 (http://www.wetanz.com/goliathon/from/brand) (Despite being ostensibly built in 1883, looks far more like a 1910s or 1920s gun to my eyes.)
- Weta Workshops' FMOM Industries Wave Disruptor Gun (http://www.wetanz.com/fmom/from/brand) (Also has a certain Dieselpunk quality about it if you ask me, albeit to a lesser extent than the Golaithon 83.)


2- Steampunk
Steampunk is really where the alternate history genre starts. It's the classic retro-sci-fi subculture, and the fact that it's spawned so many other genres pretty much solidifies it as awesome.

As much as I love the clean lines of Dieselpunk fashion, there is something about the over-the-top ornamentation of Steampunk gadgets that I can't help but love. It's Jules Verne and HG Wells crossed with Star Trek; what's not to love? And the fact that there was so much (now-debunked) "science" going on back then means you've pretty much got carte-blanche to make up whatever you want. So your device runs on phlogiston and aether? Go for it. Why not toss in some Cavorite casing too?

Some of my favourite examples of Steampunk at its best:

- Datamancer's Computational Engine Casemod (http://www.datamancer.net/projects/engine/engine.htm) (The ultimate steampunk-styled computer.)
- Weta Workshops' Victorious Mongoose 1902a Ray Pistol (http://www.wetanz.com/victorious-mongoose-1902a-concealable-ray-pistol/from/brand)
- Weta Workshops' Unnatural Selector Ray Blunderbuss (http://www.wetanz.com/blunderbuss/) (Possibly the finest example of steampunk weaponry anywhere.)
- Cherie Priest's Clockwork Century novels (http://theclockworkcentury.com/) (Zombies meets steampunk -- it's pretty awesome)
- Gibson's The Difference Engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Difference_Engine) (Steampunk brought to you by the man who invented Cyberpunk as we know it)


3- Cyberpunk
Arguably the best-known, and certainly most popular with the mainstream in recent years, Cyberpunk has a lot going for it. We're living in the age that's literally right on the cusp of falling into cyberpunk's dystpic visions of the future. Once Mac starts offering an implantable version of the iPhone we'll have reached that point.

Cyberpunk's appeal to me is largely due to the fact that it's not an alternate history; it's actually sci-fi. We're not so much concerned with "what might have been if...?" as much as "what are the ramifications of doing what we're doing right now?"

Also, unlike Steampunk, and Dieselpunk to a lesser extent, Cyberpunk is not clean. It's the dark, gritty sibling. It's a much harsher world -- often a post-apocalyptic or near-apocalyptic one. Cities are ruined, governments have fallen or been usurped, and it's generally a much darker, more unambiguously adult setting. Dieselpunk can share a lot of these traits, especially if it's set in an alternate-history version of WWII (see: Tannhauser), but Cyperpunk kind of defined them.

A few good examples of Cyberpunk:

- Gibson's Neuromancer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuromancer) (It's pretty much the seminal work, and defined the genre for the literary masses)
- Blade Runner (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083658/) (Pretty much defined what we now consider to be the archetypical "cyberpunk look")
- Johnny Mnemonic (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113481/) (Based on a Gibson novel -- so read that too)
- Jeff Somer's Avery Cates Novels (http://the-electric-church.com/)

[Dustin2128]

I've never actually heard of a couple of those. Teslapunk is new to me, though a brief google hunt reveals that it's generally a synonym of Dieselpunk. What's the difference between the two?

Atompunk is a term I hadn't come across, but I assume it's post-dieselpunk, but pre-cyberpunk; kind of a Cold War-era, atom-powered version of dieslpunk, yes?

...
The difference between Tesla and Dieselpunk is that it, obviously, focuses on some of the more outlandish inventions of Nikola Tesla; tesla coils and energy weapons primarily. That, added to the fact that tesla was a huge proponent of renewable energy I think sets Teslapunk on its own. You pretty much hit the nail on the head for atompunk, and like I said, the fallout game series is the atompunk example. Also, best steampunk energy weapons ever.

[forrestcupp]

So would Mad Max be atompunk?

[NightwishFan]

Steampunk easily. The show firefly has some cool elements. Also the game Arcanum Of Steamworks And Magicks Obscura. Even the movie Titanic has the cool steam technology that made me fascinated by the ship in my childhood.

[Evil-Ernie]

Love the aesthetics of Steam Punk, reminds me of the old HG Wells and Jules Verne stories I used to (and still) read :D

I have a project still floating around in the back of my head to build a really cool OTT Steam Punk PC out of an old typewriter and bits of brass and nice French polished wood. However I have about 3 other projects on the go so it will have to wait :(

Music-wise I like stuff like The Stranglers, No Means No, Four Year Strong, Crass, Rise Against, Anti Flag, Dead Kennedys..., a real cross section of the punk genres :)

[speedofdark]

Space Opera above everything, but after that it will be steampunk for me.

[Dustin2128]

So would Mad Max be atompunk?
I don't think so; atompunk tends to draw heavily on late 40's, 50's early 60's culture with highly anachronistic technology. For instance, in fallout (prime atompunk example) you have vacuum tube powered computers right next to soldiers in exoskeletons with flash gordon style energy weapons. Mad max (correct me if I'm wrong, haven't seen it in years) takes place after fuel resources run dangerously low; somewhat post apocalyptic, but not post-nuclear.

[GabrielYYZ]

... and here i was, preparing to post "rancid, fugazi, the clash, almost any punk band really." :lolflag:

[toupeiro]

I like LouReedPunk and RogerDaltreyPunk and I go as far as JohnLydonPunk JelloBiafraPunk and GlenDanzigPunk but thats about it....

The rest of it is hot dog filler..

[ve4cib]

I don't think so; atompunk tends to draw heavily on late 40's, 50's early 60's culture with highly anachronistic technology. For instance, in fallout (prime atompunk example) you have vacuum tube powered computers right next to soldiers in exoskeletons with flash gordon style energy weapons. Mad max (correct me if I'm wrong, haven't seen it in years) takes place after fuel resources run dangerously low; somewhat post apocalyptic, but not post-nuclear.

All of the retro-future *punk sub-genres tend to be defined by their representations of technology. Clockpunk, Steampunk, and Dieselpunk are all very heavily-influenced by older fashions and aesthetics (Renaissance-era, Victorian-era, and early-20th-Century respectively), but they are defined by the idea that the information and technological revolution of the late 20th Century happened using technology of the past.

So Clockpunk is largely defined by highly-intricate clockwork mechanisms that take the place of computers. A badly-wounded soldier might have a clockwork artificial heart that needs winding every 6 hours, and suchlike. Decidedly modern concepts, but implemented using the technology of 17th-century Europe.

Steampunk is very closely-tied with Babbage's Analytical Engine. Often the idea of giant steam-powered, clockwork computer networks is seen in this genre. We also begin to see some early electrical items. Because Victorian-era science was fraught with theories that seemed plausible at the time, but have now been completely debunked, it's not uncommon to have Steampunk devices that claim to function by manipulating the aether (the mysterious medium that light waves were thought to travel through).

Dieselpunk is much closer to "real life" than either of the previous two. The technology of Dieselpunk is based on what actually existed in the 20s-50s, but expanded and revised heavily. Early computers existed in the 40s, but Dieselpunk expands their use, their permeation of society, and their power. Likewise, high-tech jet aircraft, like Germany's Horten Ho 229 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horten_Ho_229), were never mass-produced historically, but are commonly-seen in Dieselpunk. The same goes for large airships, despite the fact that airship usage declined to almost nothing following the Hindenburg.

Atompunk is basically the same as Dieselpunk, but based on Cold-War technologies. Here is where we see what are essentially modern devices -- cell phones, digital cameras, personal computers -- implemented decades before they actually existed. But the principles behind them are the same; computers use transistors, not vacuum tubes or clockwork for example.

One of my favourite examples of Atompunk (or retro-futurism at the very least) is this collection of 1970s-styled modern devices:

We Are Not Time Travelers (http://www.behance.net/Gallery/ALT1977-WE-ARE-NOT-TIME-TRAVELERS/545221)

Imagine what the iPod and the laptop computer would look like if they were invented while the Hippie Revolution was still going on. It's maybe not as edgy as Fallout's Atompunk, but it definitely fits the bill of modern devices implemented using technology of the Atom Age.


All of the above retro-future genres can also see futuristic technologies -- like space planes, extra-terrestrial colonies, energy weapons, and the like -- but they are always implemented using the technology and scientific theories of their historical counterparts.

HG Wells and Jules Verne have novels that are essentially "Victorian Sci-Fi." The Time Machine, The Invisible Man, The First Men in the Moon, 20'000 Leagues Under the Sea, etc... They all portray technological feats -- like space travel or time travel -- that were impossible during the time they were written. As such, their "Technobabble" centres around the scientific concepts of their day. In The First Men in the Moon they use a mysterious element called Cavorite to shield a spacecraft from the effects of gravity, much like a lead curtain can protect a room against radio waves. It's obviously complete nonsense now, but for the time it made perfect sense.

Retro-futurism is all about that concept: making the impossible seem plausible, using the technologies and science of the past.



Biopunk and Cyberpunk, unlike the others, are generally not retro-futurism; they are not interested in re-creating modern devices using antiquated technology. Instead Cyberpunk and Biopunk are modern sci-fi, based on the idea of creating futuristic technologies based on our current understanding of "how things work."


I have absolutely no doubt that in another 100 years or so, when turn-of-the-millennium technology is considered as ancient and obsolete as we see vacuum tubes today, an new genre that I'll call "Millenniumpunk" will emerge, where artists and authors of the future create worlds where whatever newfangled technology of the future was invented in the early 2000s, and everything is encased in cheap, oil-based plastics, with useless LED decorations and small, awkward touchscreens instead of whatever the world of tomorrow will use on their portable devices.

[pwnst*r]

Well, if you meant genre, then I'd have to say Steampunk.

[BigCityCat]

Hardcore

D.R.I the best of all time no doubt.

[corrytonapple]

Likewise, I guess I'm to old to understand this thread. :lolflag:
And I am too young................

[Dustin2128]

And I am too young................
read ve4cib's excellent explanation.

[ve4cib]

read ve4cib's excellent explanation.

Well I'm glad at least one person appreciated my ramblings.

[Dustin2128]

I saw sky captain and the world of tomorrow last night. That's an interesting and pretty good take on dieselpunk, if a bit campy.

[RATM_Owns]

I was going to pop in and say hardcore/crust punk, but now I really have no idea what this is about.

[ve4cib]

I saw sky captain and the world of tomorrow last night. That's an interesting and pretty good take on dieselpunk, if a bit campy.

Retro-futurism always has a little bit of camp to it. It's the "retro-" part, I think.

[Red_Steve]

This poll misses "Magepunk"

[Dustin2128]

This poll misses "Magepunk"
Never heard of it. Explain?

[ve4cib]

Just guessing, but I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that "magepunk" is medieval-fantasy, where everything is implemented using magic and sorcery, instead of science.

[TheNessus]

Just guessing, but I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that "magepunk" is medieval-fantasy, where everything is implemented using magic and sorcery, instead of science.

harry-potter style? meh, don't like it, don't like it one bit.

I'm a science-fiction and cyberpunk fan myself.

[Dustin2128]

Just guessing, but I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that "magepunk" is medieval-fantasy, where everything is implemented using magic and sorcery, instead of science.
I think it'd be more like mago-techno combination thing. Hm, hard to say. Anyone know if the blood elves in WoW would be magepunk?

[Random_Dude]

The only ones I recognized were Steampunk and Cyberpunk, so I won't be voting due to my ignorance of the other genres.

Since we're on this topic, I've read Neuromancer and found it rather confusing. Anyone else felt the same way?

I didn't know all these new sub-genres, you really learn something everyday. :o

Cheers :cool:

[ve4cib]

Since we're on this topic, I've read Neuromancer and found it rather confusing. Anyone else felt the same way?

I read most of it in grade 11, and got completely lost. Once the Rastafarian tugboat drivers appeared -- seemingly out of nowhere, unless I was asleep during that chapter -- I was just completely confused. Fortunately my English teacher hadn't read the book either, so I made up some BS and got a good mark on the book report anyway.

One of these days I'll read it all the way through.