Conspiracy Theories?

[Johnsie]

What are your favourite conspiracy theories?

[theraje]

That God/The Devil/The Voices in My Head really made them do it...

[Lucradia]

That Area 51 is real; seeing as it does exist, and the people who wrote about it do know what they're saying.

Real Area 51:

-- Is an experimental flight technology testing facility.

-- Has its own large airspace. Scheduled flights for civilians are ALWAYS directed away from its airspace.

-- It is not shown on in-cockpit radars, nor on the airport maps.

-- To make its landing strip invisible, it is sprayed with chemicals to make it blend into the surroundings.

-- People who get near the base are greeted with a sign about every 10-50 feet or so around the perimeter, saying that soldiers stationed there are allowed to "Shoot on site" depending on your behavior.

---- Cameras are not allowed past the signs.

---- Turret Cameras (Not ones with weapons) dot the perimeter and entire complex, so that all areas can be watched.

[Paqman]

Favourite from a comedy point of view? Or for real? Most of them are pretty crazy.

[Paqman]

-- To make its landing strip invisible, it is sprayed with chemicals to make it blend into the surroundings.


Clearly not very successfully: Area 51 on Google maps (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=maps+groom+lake&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl) ;)

[TNT1]

Oh, I so want to say organised religion, but that'll just get me moderated.

[Lucradia]

Clearly not very successfully: Area 51 on Google maps (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=maps+groom+lake&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl) ;)

That's Groom Lake. ;)

This is what you desired to show, I believe: http://imgur.com/LjO5M.jpg

[t0p]

Oh, I so want to say organised religion, but that'll just get me moderated.

Same reason why I won't say that my fave conspiracy theory is the one that a loon in a cave somewhere in Afghanistan convinced some other loons to crash planes into skyscrapers. I mean, even Hollywood couldn't come up with a tale like that!

[3Miro]

The one about the secret facility underneath Denver airport, where bio-chemical weapons are developed and stockpiled, so that they can be used to wipe out the majority of the human race and establish a one world government. Then everything is well documented in the form of hidden messages in the murals on the walls of all the terminals.

[TNT1]

The one about the secret facility underneath Denver airport, where bio-chemical weapons are developed and stockpiled, so that they can be used to wipe out the majority of the human race and establish a one world government. Then everything is well documented in the form of hidden messages in the murals on the walls of all the terminals.

Oh, right, so Bush and co really did know where the wmd's were all along. Nice.

[bryncoles]

Don't tell him! You'll end up on a(nother) Government watch-list!

[TNT1]

Same reason why I won't say that my fave conspiracy theory is the one that a loon in a cave somewhere in Afghanistan convinced some other loons to crash planes into skyscrapers. I mean, even Hollywood couldn't come up with a tale like that!

Yeah, that is quite a nugget, isn't it.

[zekopeko]

Same reason why I won't say that my fave conspiracy theory is the one that a loon in a cave somewhere in Afghanistan convinced some other loons to crash planes into skyscrapers.

That actually happened. Certainly not so simplified but still happened.


I mean, even Hollywood couldn't come up with a tale like that!

Michael Bay would disagree.

[TNT1]

That actually happened. Certainly not so simplified but still happened.



.

Hey, no-one disputes that the planes flew into the buildings, and quite possibly, even terrorism was involved, but the bit about a sophisticated, technology reliant plan being hatch, masterminded, and overseen from a cave in afghanistan is taking the ****.

[zekopeko]

Hey, no-one disputes that the planes flew into the buildings, and quite possibly, even terrorism was involved, but the bit about a sophisticated, technology reliant plan being hatch, masterminded, and overseen from a cave in afghanistan is taking the ****.

The plan was developed over a decade. The hijackers where from Saudi Arabia and other neighboring countries and not a cave. Osama bin Laden was the financial backer to the operation but the mastermind was that other dude, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who was working in Kuwait.

[TNT1]

Don't tell him! You'll end up on a(nother) Government watch-list!

Hey, if the government has nothing better to do than watch me talking k@k here, and surfing porn, then I am glad I didn't vote for em.

[eriktheblu]

I'm more worried about what's going on out in the open. It's bad enough without inventing things.

[TNT1]

i'm more worried about what's going on out in the open. It's bad enough without inventing things.
+1

[bryncoles]

Hey, if the government has nothing better to do than watch me talking k@k here, and surfing porn, then I am glad I didn't vote for em.

They're probably hoping you find some good stuff -- it's so much easier than finding ones own porn.

Also, offtopic, would a Russian Reversal work on the concept of being watched by the government? "In Soviet Russia, Government doesn't watch you..."?

[Grenage]

The plan was developed over a decade. The hijackers where from Saudi Arabia and other neighboring countries and not a cave. Osama bin Laden was the financial backer to the operation but the mastermind was that other dude, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who was working in Kuwait.

Don't let the truth get in the way of general ignorance!

My favourites would probably be the 'fake moon landings, and the titanic 'insurance fraud' - simply because some conspiracy theorists have really done some in-depth work.

P.S: Rest of thread: Don't confuse conspiracy with belief.

[t0p]

The plan was developed over a decade. The hijackers where from Saudi Arabia and other neighboring countries and not a cave. Osama bin Laden was the financial backer to the operation but the mastermind was that other dude, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who was working in Kuwait.

That isn't the conspiracy theory I was talking about. But even if it were: how do you know it's true? Cos someone told you that was so? I'm sure enough people told Columbus he was gonna sail off the end of the world, but I don't think he did.

Anyway, if the loon in the cave was just the financial backer, why did the coalition forces invade Afghanistan? Surely it would have made more sense to invade Kuwait and take out Khalid. And how does a loon in a cave finance an atrocity like that? Is his cave full of gold bars or something?

[TNT1]

P.S: Rest of thread: Don't confuse conspiracy with belief.
Wait, what if you "believe" in a conspiracy?

[TNT1]

And how does a loon in a cave finance an atrocity like that? Is his cave full of gold bars or something?

No man. He stashed plenty of cash from the construction contracts Bush senior gave his family, not to mention the cash the CIA gave him to fight the red threat along with the mujahidin...

[t0p]

P.S: Rest of thread: Don't confuse conspiracy with belief.

So you don't think that conspiracy theorists actually believe their theories? That they're all liars? Woo, that's some conspiracy theory you've got right there!

[rjbl]

There are some grounds to suspect that there is a special very secret Division of GCHQ, funded by the Bilderberg Club; the British Government; NSA and William Gates III (no, not that one), to develop and spread alternative accounts of the real world's events across Cyberspace to confuse the voting populations of the world and prevent them from realizing that all the world's Leaders are, in fact, reptilian aliens from a passing asteroid. Not a lot of people know that.

rjbl

[undecim]

"Lizard People are Running the World!"

People actually believe this.

http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/magazine/15-11/st_best

[3Miro]

There are some grounds to suspect that there is a special very secret Division of GCHQ, funded by the Bilderberg Club; the British Government; NSA and William Gates III (no, not that one), to develop and spread alternative accounts of the real world's events across Cyberspace to confuse the voting populations of the world and prevent them from realizing that all the world's Leaders are, in fact, reptilian aliens from a passing asteroid. Not a lot of people know that.

rjbl

Yep, and their Headquarters in underneath Denver Airport.

[zekopeko]

I'm more worried about what's going on out in the open. It's bad enough without inventing things.

Completely agree. Noam Chomsky responded to this is in some interview. It boils down to: why are conspiracy theorists focusing on unlikely scenarios of power abuse (since they are very weary of government/corporate power) while there are examples of blatant abuse of power that aren't theories and are happening right now.

[zekopeko]

That isn't the conspiracy theory I was talking about. But even if it were: how do you know it's true? Cos someone told you that was so? I'm sure enough people told Columbus he was gonna sail off the end of the world, but I don't think he did.

You'll have to expand on what is the conspiracy theory you are referring to so I know to what exactly I'm responding here.


Anyway, if the loon in the cave was just the financial backer, why did the coalition forces invade Afghanistan? Surely it would have made more sense to invade Kuwait and take out Khalid. And how does a loon in a cave finance an atrocity like that? Is his cave full of gold bars or something?

If you actually read up on Osama bin Laden you would know he comes from a rich Saudi family and has quite the personal wealth.

[Grenage]

So you don't think that conspiracy theorists actually believe their theories? That they're all liars? Woo, that's some conspiracy theory you've got right there!

Damn, I've been rumbled.

[donkyhotay]

My favorite is the one where "they" go onto forums asking about conspiracy theories and when someone responds with one that is too close to the truth "they" eliminate them.

Oh hey there's someone at the door... (c;

[forrestcupp]

The government puts some kind of mind control chemicals in jet planes that get sprayed out over the population in those white streams behind them.



My favourites would probably be the 'fake moon landings, and the titanic 'insurance fraud' - simply because some conspiracy theorists have really done some in-depth work.

+1 on the moon landing.

Also, the apes will take over the planet in another 1500 years.

[TNT1]

The government puts some kind of mind control chemicals in jet planes that get sprayed out over the population in those white streams behind them.





Surely that's true? What else explains you lot voting for george w twice?

[forrestcupp]

Surely that's true? What else explains you lot voting for george w twice?

Some of us lot miss him nowadays. But I guess we shouldn't talk about that, now.

[TNT1]

Some of us lot miss him nowadays.

Yeah, there isn't much to laugh at without him, is there?

[Gremlinzzz]

That there's a hole in are magnetic field and solar storms around 2013 will knock out all electric power.
Jesse Ventura

[proxess]

Surely that's true? What else explains you lot voting for george w twice?

Actually, only the republicans do that.

[PuddingKnife]

I dont know much about conspiracy theories, but I have been following the Jersey Girls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_Family_Steering_Committee) fight for a new investigation into 9/11. A lot of conspiracy theories have popped up from that event, but I honestly believe that there's an ongoing cover up of the real truth about that day, whatever that may be.

Just a few days ago I saw a clip of Geraldo speaking to a family member on his FOX News show about this very subject:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFPobKeSzKQ&feature=player_embedded

Noam Chomsky recently expounded on the illegality of the War on Terror stating,
"The explicit and declared motive of the [Afghanistan] war was to compel the Taliban to turn over to the United States, the people who they accused of having been involved in World Trade Center and Pentagon terrorist acts. The Taliban…they requested evidence…and the Bush administration refused to provide any. We later discovered one of the reasons why they did not bring evidence: they did not have any.”

So, I think its an important issue that should be discussed and not relegated to the bin of "conspiracy theory", a moniker that indicates one should not take a particular subject seriously.

/2 cents

[donkyhotay]

Surely that's true? What else explains you lot voting for george w twice?

I'd love to respond to this but what I want to say would get me in trouble.

[weasel fierce]

all the 2012 stuff is pretty hilarious. Me and a coworker used to prowl those sites to see who could find the most absurd doomsday theory.

[marl30]

Mine are The NWO, 911, and the new age/ Freemason conspiracy. LOL

[kvant]

There are many that are not theories, but fact. Let's call them conspiracy facts?

[lisati]

I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seclusion). Some of the people I've met in person and online seem to be of the opinion that it's really a punishment, and that it's utterly impossible for the "victim" to have had at least some responsibility for ending up there.

[zekopeko]

I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seclusion). Some of the people I've met in person and online seem to be of the opinion that it's really a punishment, and that it's utterly impossible for the "victim" to have had at least some responsibility for ending up there.

I don't get it. What's the relevance to conspiracy theories?

[Tristam Green]

I ask the same thing.

Also, lol@this thread and tinfoil hatters.

[KiwiNZ]

Apple/Steve Jobs, MS/Bill Gates,

[lisati]

I don't get it. What's the relevance to conspiracy theories?

I'll try to keep the explanation brief:

Many of the people I associate with have mental health issues. Some of them don't like seclusion (i.e. the "padded room"), are quick to blame the staff of the hospital for putting them in seclusion, and are slow to accept the possibility that their own bad behaviour might have contributed to the situation. One of the "theories" I have heard is that it's used as a punishment: this sounds like paranoia to me.

[kvant]

Hey guys, anyone dieing from swine flu yet? Good that your government bought you millions of vaccine doses, heh?

[theraje]

Hey guys, anyone dieing from swine flu yet? Good that your government bought you millions of vaccine doses, heh?

Awesome stuff. Makes you want to facepalm after a headdesk.

[forrestcupp]

Hey guys, anyone dieing from swine flu yet? Good that your government bought you millions of vaccine doses, heh?

But there were people who died before the vaccine. :confused:

[3Miro]

But there were people who died before the vaccine. :confused:

If was based on facts, then it wouldn't be a conspiracy theory. To make a conspiracy theory:

1. Ignore facts.
2. Use gaps of common people's knowledge (we are not doctors, biologists, engineers, physicists ...)
3. Arrive at a bunch of definite and certain conclusions.

[PariswasBerlin]

My favorite....
:popcorn:

Has to be the NWO one.
It's fun to see people use logical fallacies to try to convince others, then stand there like a cow watching a train when you show them the error of their thinking.

Some of them actually have the audacity to question if you're part of the conspiracy for merely confusing them. This is when you answer yes, but "we stopped worshiping Molock during the recession because it's just not economically viable to do so anymore".

[Quadunit404]

all the 2012 stuff is pretty hilarious. Me and a coworker used to prowl those sites to see who could find the most absurd doomsday theory.

Finding 2012 conspiracy theories is fun, especially the ones about a non-existent planet, which they named Nibiru, that will hit us on 12/21/12. It's been scientifically proven (http://www.universetoday.com/14486/2012-no-planet-x/) that Nibiru does not and can not exist, and yet people are going like "WAAAAAAAAAAAAH we're going to get hit by Nibiru in 2012 we're all gonna die!!!1111111!!!!!!!!!!!11111one1!!" anyway.

I wonder why people continue to believe all these doomsday theories, even though the past 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,0 00,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (yes, that's a real number, now shut up) doomsday predictions turned out to be false, AND the guy who "predicted" Doomsday 2012 admitted to being high when he was supposedly told by God that he was "the messiah" AND that he made false predictions in the past, so what makes them think THIS one will turn out to be true?

[vicshrike]

as a whisper sssh "Microsoft"...

[freshmeatz]

There is only one person whom I regard to any accuracy with conspiracy, sadly he was well lets say murdered basically two months after predicting event from the middle east that happened to be 9/11 , if you know of this famous voice then hopefully you are also well informed.:-\":-\"
and no it is not pocket pillaging ambush journalism A.Jones.

[Gremlinzzz]

That there's a hole in are magnetic field and solar storms around 2013 will knock out all electric power.
Jesse Ventura

here it is
Apocalypse 2012 Jesse Ventura Conspiracy Theory
http://embedr.com/playlist/apocalypse-2012-jesse-ventura-conspiracy-theory

Then I found this!
http://cleantechnica.com/2010/11/12/nasa-readies-high-tech-solar-shield-to-protect-u-s-electrical-grid-from-solar-storms/

[freshmeatz]

I like Jesse, but it seems like people who practice this form of ambush reporting and strong-arming the "man" just discredit the rest who possibly hold stable ground. IE HAARP did it, etc.

No matter what is said it is obviously clear powerful forces are hard at work and do not take a day off in the quest to deprive liberties/freedoms in sight of "security" and are on a quest to govern man in any way shape or form, regardless of human recourse intervention.

[Gremlinzzz]

And there's more
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40089463/ns/technology_and_science-innovation/
Its all there man its true!

[zekopeko]

And there's more
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40089463/ns/technology_and_science-innovation/
Its all there man its true!

No it's not. While it is true that there are solar storms and that they affect Earth it does not give any credence to the conspiracy theory.

The Sun has a weather cycle that lasts 11 years and this sort of activity is normal. 2013 is the years the cycle peaks in solar activity. We are currently in cycle 24. That should give you a good guest at how long people knew about it.

This kind of thinking is how conspiracy theories persist. People take facts, interpret them while ignoring the bits that disapprove their little theory and spread them.

[Gremlinzzz]

Then I found this
: NASA's five THEMIS spacecraft have discovered a breach in Earth's magnetic field ten times larger than anything previously thought to exist. Solar wind can flow in through the opening to "load up" the magnetosphere for powerful geomagnetic storms. But the breach itself is not the biggest surprise. Researchers are even more amazed at the strange and unexpected way it forms, overturning long-held ideas of space physics.
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2008/16dec_giantbreach/

The pieces are all coming together!

[kvant]

But there were people who died before the vaccine. :confused:

The "funny" thing is that the vaccine was produced before the emergence of the "epidemic".

[kvant]

But there were people who died before the vaccine. :confused:

Oh, another thing, MUCH less people died (a few orders of magnitude less) from the swine flu than the regular flu.

[zekopeko]

Then I found this
: NASA's five THEMIS spacecraft have discovered a breach in Earth's magnetic field ten times larger than anything previously thought to exist. Solar wind can flow in through the opening to "load up" the magnetosphere for powerful geomagnetic storms. But the breach itself is not the biggest surprise. Researchers are even more amazed at the strange and unexpected way it forms, overturning long-held ideas of space physics.
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2008/16dec_giantbreach/

The pieces are all coming together!

So where is the conspiracy in this?

[zekopeko]

The "funny" thing is that the vaccine was produced before the emergence of the "epidemic".

Citation needed. The vaccine was available only months after the initial outbreak.


Oh, another thing, MUCH less people died (a few orders of magnitude less) from the swine flu than the regular flu.

Probably because it wasn't targeting people like the common flu does.

[Gremlinzzz]

So where is the conspiracy in this?

its proof of this conspiracy
http://embedr.com/playlist/apocalypse-2012-jesse-ventura-conspiracy-theory

[holiday]

How about the theory that the Corporations - aka "A handful of Billionaires, the Government and the Press" - figured all they needed was to get everyone upset about the deficit and the insecurity of billionaires (hiding behind struggling small business people who could really use some real help - like customers) and hey presto! They become Pharaohs and we all (we "Folks") feel so good because we shared in the pain.

Just a theory.

But, as I think Rumsfeld said, "We have an image problem about Iraq."

It's so sad they don't have an image problem about America.

So long, USA. It was good to know you - too many years ago.

[jroa]

My favorite conspiracy is that man could not possibly go to the moon because a person could not possibly leave the Earth without dieing in the Van Allen Belts.

[kvant]

Citation needed. The vaccine was available only months after the initial outbreak.



Probably because it wasn't targeting people like the common flu does.

Pharmaceutical companies were applying for swine flu vaccine patent a year or two before the "outbreak". You can search for the patents yourself, I can't be assed really.

About your second sentence... well, yeah, you're jumping in your own mouth right there.

[Grenage]

Pharmaceutical companies were applying for swine flu vaccine patent a year or two before the "outbreak". You can search for the patents yourself, I can't be assed really.

Considering the public hype over the possibly apocalyptic effect of a swine flu epidemic, it was a financially wise move.


Probably because it wasn't targeting people like the common flu does.

From a humanitarian perspective - thankfully

[aytech]

The plan was developed over a decade. The hijackers where from Saudi Arabia and other neighboring countries and not a cave. Osama bin Laden was the financial backer to the operation but the mastermind was that other dude, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who was working in Kuwait.

Yea, we heard all that on TV :-\" [-o<

[Paqman]

That's Groom Lake. ;)

This is what you desired to show, I believe: http://imgur.com/LjO5M.jpg

Whoops, link fail. If you search for "groom lake airbase" you get the right pic. Area 51 is a name coined by the conspiracy nuts to make it sound more conspiracy-friendly, the actual facility has always been called Groom Lake AFAIK.

And yes, it is a facility for testing secret aircraft. Projects like Have Blue were done there, which eventually turned into the F-117.

[zekopeko]

its proof of this conspiracy
http://embedr.com/playlist/apocalypse-2012-jesse-ventura-conspiracy-theory

That was the most ludicrous thing I saw all week. It's not proof of any conspiracy. You are trying to link two unrelated thing.

[zekopeko]

Yea, we heard all that on TV :-\" [-o<

And what do you think is the truth?

[zekopeko]

Pharmaceutical companies were applying for swine flu vaccine patent a year or two before the "outbreak". You can search for the patents yourself, I can't be assed really.

You're the one making claims. You have to provide the evidence. I bet if there even exists a patent it will be for swine flu vaccine for pigs and not humans.


About your second sentence... well, yeah, you're jumping in your own mouth right there.

How so? By pointing out that the common flu evolved to target humans for thousands of years before and that the swine flu virus targeted pigs and then jumped on humans. Seems logical that it would have lower mortality rates since it hasn't evolved to attack humans before.

[TNT1]

Slightly off topic, but my wife had swine flu, led to her being fired from her job at the time. Whee, labour court is a barrel of laughs.

[Evil-Ernie]

I'm going to wade into the Swine Flu (Technically 'Mexican' Flu) debate as I am an insider, I worked on my trusts response including the organisation of vaccines and clinics.

Every year we give vaccine for the 'common' flu (H1N1) as if caught even healthy people, not just the vulnerable it can kill. In fact the CFR (Clinical Fatality Rate) is around about 2% for H1N1 while in fact the 'Swine' flu variant H1N1/09 has a very slightly lower CFR (about 1.8%) which means its less fatal.

The problem was the ability of H1N1/09 to spread, it is highly contagious so if lets say one of our scenarios came true where 100,000 people got infected and a standard CFR rate of 2% of that, with a bit of maths you realise you are looking at 2000 corpses in just one area. Also take into consideration our frontline workers (doctors amnd nurses), if they get sick who will be looking after those new patients? Suddenly the implications get very real and very scary.

A big thing was made of the vaccination programme last year which was media hyped to be a big waste of time. I believe the reason why we didn't have 1000's of corpses is due to this response of the NHS, WHO and other agencies with not just the flu jabs but the improved infection control of the general public (alcohol gel hand rub etc).

Anyway back to the question, my favorite conspiracy is that of the 'Lost Cosmonauts' which is alleged the old Soviet Union hid details of botched space shots and people dying in orbit with it all being hushed up even to this day.

[zekopeko]

I'm going to wade into the Swine Flu (Technically 'Mexican' Flu) debate as I am an insider, I worked on my trusts response including the organisation of vaccines and clinics.

Every year we give vaccine for the 'common' flu (H1N1) as if caught even healthy people, not just the vulnerable it can kill. In fact the CFR (Clinical Fatality Rate) is around about 2% for H1N1 while in fact the 'Swine' flu variant H1N1/09 has a very slightly lower CFR (about 1.8%) which means its less fatal.

The problem was the ability of H1N1/09 to spread, it is highly contagious so if lets say one of our scenarios came true where 100,000 people got infected and a standard CFR rate of 2% of that, with a bit of maths you realise you are looking at 2000 corpses in just one area. Also take into consideration our frontline workers (doctors amnd nurses), if they get sick who will be looking after those new patients? Suddenly the implications get very real and very scary.

A big thing was made of the vaccination programme last year which was media hyped to be a big waste of time. I believe the reason why we didn't have 1000's of corpses is due to this response of the NHS, WHO and other agencies with not just the flu jabs but the improved infection control of the general public (alcohol gel hand rub etc).

Anyway back to the question, my favorite conspiracy is that of the 'Lost Cosmonauts' which is alleged the old Soviet Union hid details of botched space shots and people dying in orbit with it all being hushed up even to this day.

Isn't 2% a little excessive? I usually hear the number 100 million people infected with common flu each years and a mortality rate of some 0.5% of infected.

EDIT: Or is 2% of those that had sever problems and where admitted to hospitals?

[aytech]

And what do you think is the truth?

If only I had known the truth...
But I try to do analisys on my own, and the attempt to fill in every hole in the official story with bin Laden and terror is ridiculous. I dont know why people still believe that.

Check out articles written by aviation or demolishion experts, then compare them with the debunking stories on youtube, for example, most of those were previously on TV, you'll see that the debunking stories fail miserably to provide any credible explanation against the facts stated by experts

[Grenage]

I believe the reason why we didn't have 1000's of corpses is due to this response of the NHS, WHO and other agencies with not just the flu jabs but the improved infection control of the general public (alcohol gel hand rub etc)

I personally think that the reason we didn't have 1000's of corpses, is that barely anyone actually caught it. Every man and his dog with a sniffle (around here) thought they had swine flu, when they clearly had (at best) a cold.

[t0p]

Wow, what's wrong with you people? It is a "proven" "fact", not a conspiracy theory, that the world as we currently know it will end on 21 December 2012. Look here (http://www.2012supplies.com/countdown.html) if you don't believe me! (That is the Official 2012 Countdown timer, so it's gotta be true!)

Seriously though, how does belief in the 2012 doomsday prediction qualify as a conspiracy theory? It's a theory, sure, but where is the conspiracy bit? Which group stands to profit from the belief? Delusion != Conspiracy Theory. Well, not in this case anyway.

In any case, the world might come to an end on 21 December 2012. It might be because of a "galactic alignment" or increased solar flares or collision with an invisible, undetectable planet... we don't know. And we won't know until 21 December 2012. But, regardless of the theory's veracity, it is not a conspiracy theory.

[Paqman]

By pointing out that the common flu evolved to target humans for thousands of years before and that the swine flu virus targeted pigs and then jumped on humans. Seems logical that it would have lower mortality rates since it hasn't evolved to attack humans before.

Actually, when pathogens invades a new species it will normally result in higher mortality rates than in the old host. It's not in the virus's interests to kill the host quickly. Over time they tend to evolve to leave us alive so they can use us to infect more hosts.

However, it's not at all unusual for a virus to cross species barriers. Most pathogens that affect humans are zoonotic to some degree.

[zekopeko]

If only I had known the truth...
But I try to do analisys on my own, and the attempt to fill in every hole in the official story with bin Laden and terror is ridiculous. I dont know why people still believe that.

What holes? The story is pretty clear. Islamic terrorists hatch a plan over ten years to crash planes into American symbols of power. They hijack the planes into buildings. Buildings fall. The end.


Check out articles written by aviation or demolishion experts, then compare them with the debunking stories on youtube, for example, most of those were previously on TV, you'll see that the debunking stories fail miserably to provide any credible explanation against the facts stated by experts

Articles by demolition experts support the official story.

[zekopeko]

Actually, when pathogens invades a new species it will normally result in higher mortality rates than in the old host. It's not in the virus's interests to kill the host quickly. Over time they tend to evolve to leave us alive so they can use us to infect more hosts.

However, it's not at all unusual for a virus to cross species barriers. Most pathogens that affect humans are zoonotic to some degree.

Normally is the key word here. We should probably look at the previous death rates of pigs vs humans. It might be that the pigs mortality rate is lower then the above mentioned 1.8%. Plus I doubt pigs received the same amount of care as humans. And don't pigs have a pretty similar immune system to humans? But then again I'm not an immunologist.

[Johnsie]

I think the biggest conspiracy is that if you even mention a conspiracy theory to anyone you usually get immediately verbally attacked or people immedialtely thing you are talking rubbish.

For example, Michael Sheen went on the record with a conspiracy theory and he immediately recieved a torrect of abuse by the mainstream media.

Some people actually get very angry when you mention a conspiracy theory and I've never understood that.

[freshmeatz]

Behind each act of terrorism is a white man reaping huge profits or political,military, or corporate gains. yeah cave dwellers did it,:lolflag:

[Grenage]

Some people actually get very angry when you mention a conspiracy theory and I've never understood that.

Because they are normally just that; unfounded theories.

[Evil-Ernie]

Isn't 2% a little excessive? I usually hear the number 100 million people infected with common flu each years and a mortality rate of some 0.5% of infected.

EDIT: Or is 2% of those that had sever problems and where admitted to hospitals?

It is for the the H1N1 strain (seasonal flu) only, not including H3N1 et al which tends to be milder.

H5N1 is the bad boy Avian strain, last time I checked (not got figures to hand) I think the CFR was something like 68%! :shock:

[aytech]

Behind each act of terrorism is a white man reaping huge profits or political,military, or corporate gains.

+1 =D> every terrorism story should start from that

[Paqman]

Normally is the key word here. We should probably look at the previous death rates of pigs vs humans. It might be that the pigs mortality rate is lower then the above mentioned 1.8%. Plus I doubt pigs received the same amount of care as humans. And don't pigs have a pretty similar immune system to humans? But then again I'm not an immunologist.

Why bother? The whole idea of a conspiracy behind swine flu is a bit silly. There's just too many people with no vested interest who were raising the alarm. A successful scientific hoax of that scale seems wildly improbable.

[Paqman]

Some people actually get very angry when you mention a conspiracy theory and I've never understood that.

That's because conspiracy theories, by their very nature aren't falsifiable. Any time someone presents a piece of evidence that refutes some crackpot idea, the conspiracy nuts simply move the goalposts to say that person is part of the conspiracy. They're the factual equivalent of perpetual motion machines.

[Evil-Ernie]

Why bother? The whole idea of a conspiracy behind swine flu is a bit silly. There's just too many people with no vested interest who were raising the alarm. A successful scientific hoax of that scale seems wildly improbable.

Lots of people die every year from influenza related problems. Flu epidemics are not new and its widely known that the Spanish Flu pandemic 1918 killed more than the Great War that preceded it.

What is new is the way the media reports and sensationalises these stories, also flu is seen as a mild illness and that modern medicine prevents you from dying from it. It may suprise some people that seasonal flu can, and does kill healthy people with no underlying chronic illness every year.

[Paqman]

What is new is the way the media reports and sensationalises these stories

Is it though? I think the media at the time would have had a thing or two to say about previous flu pandemics. As you say, millions died. It was a major event.

Personally i'd really like to know about any impending pandemics of dangerous strains. That's pretty newsworthy. Granted, some sources are likely to be a little more shrill than is really necessary, but those sources are probably pretty shrill about everything else as well.

[Grenage]

Is it though? I think the media at the time would have had a thing or two to say about previous flu pandemics. As you say, millions died. It was a major event.

Personally i'd really like to know about any impending pandemics of dangerous strains. That's pretty newsworthy. Granted, some sources are likely to be a little more shrill than is really necessary, but those sources are probably pretty shrill about everything else as well.

I don't doubt that half the UK papers would headline:

KILLER VIRUS THREATENS MANKIND.

While the others might go with:

VIRAL STRAIN DISCOVERED, 5 DEAD.

[Paqman]

I don't doubt that half the UK papers would headline:

KILLER VIRUS THREATENS MANKIND.

While the others might go with:

VIRAL STRAIN DISCOVERED, 5 DEAD.

I think the real threat to mankind in the first case is from their readers' lack of ability to spot a reliable source of information.

Daily Mail would just fall back on their default position and run:

DID KILLER VIRUS MURDER OUR DI?

[Evil-Ernie]

Is it though? I think the media at the time would have had a thing or two to say about previous flu pandemics. As you say, millions died. It was a major event.

Yes the media did but with control and restraint. Also todays technology and public appitite for sesation doesn't help matters and you end up with a media feeding frenzy.


Personally i'd really like to know about any impending pandemics of dangerous strains. That's pretty newsworthy. Granted, some sources are likely to be a little more shrill than is really necessary, but those sources are probably pretty shrill about everything else as well.

True but it should be balanced and factual. Too often I see healthcare stories and nearly always the opinions are took from the scared man on the street while the vaguest of details and fact in the story leave the reader to jump to fantastic conclutions that are incorrect.

[dmizer]

As has been shown here several times over, it's near impossible to discuss conspiracy without involving politics.

Thank you for participating.