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onaridge
November 14th, 2010, 07:34 PM
I am a fairly new Ubuntu user and can now use it for everything but Skype so I retain the dual boot. I love Ubuntu!!! As I have been using Ubuntu and marveling over how easy it is to use once set up and how stable, and mostly spyware and virus free it is, I found myself wondering if I shouldn't install it on my mom's laptop. She is forever complaining about slow downs due most likely to viruses etc, and fragmentation and all the other things that make Windows a computer tech's dream. She is 72 and totally computer shy. I could set up a dual boot and I am sure she could remember how to pick the OS she wants and I would customize the desktop exactly how she wants it. All she does is mail and internet and photos with her camera. The only thing I worry about is if she did have to take it in to get fixed (she lives very far away from me) would anyone know how to troubleshoot Ubuntu. She will be here for 6 weeks giving me plenty of time to set it up and hopefully it will pick up her wireless router again when she goes home.

There should be a segment of computers that are sold with Ubuntu set up for older people. Why wouldn't they want it? If they aren't specialized in an area that does not have a program in Ubuntu or doesn't run well on WINE, why not?

Zzl1xndd
November 14th, 2010, 07:40 PM
Depending on the issue she might have some trouble finding support in her area. However, I use teamviewer with my parents PC as it lets me deal with most of their support issues.

http://www.teamviewer.com/index.aspx

And just wondering why you can't use Skype of Ubuntu? Does it not work with your Webcam/Mic?

onaridge
November 14th, 2010, 08:05 PM
Yes teamviewer would be perfect! I already have it on both my computers and could familiarize myself with it here. Does anyone have experience of older people using Ubuntu? It's hard to have an unbiased view when one is somewhat computer literate.

Skype audio works at my end, just not the camera which is probably a good thing. lol. Seriously tho' it would be nice to get that camera part working and the funny thing is, the webcam works fine in Cheese.

kaldor
November 14th, 2010, 08:18 PM
Yes teamviewer would be perfect! I already have it on both my computers and could familiarize myself with it here. Does anyone have experience of older people using Ubuntu? It's hard to have an unbiased view when one is somewhat computer literate.

Skype audio works at my end, just not the camera which is probably a good thing. lol. Seriously tho' it would be nice to get that camera part working and the funny thing is, the webcam works fine in Cheese.

Skype is annoying on Linux. The only distro that it worked flawlessly for me was openSUSE. The webcam not working is a common complaint. It did not work for me on Ubuntu, but worked for me on Mint 9 and LMDE.

drawkcab
November 14th, 2010, 08:18 PM
My thought is that Ubuntu would be perfect for older users. 99% of the problem is getting it installed and configured. If you're willing to do that for her, she should be fine. As far as support goes, my parents just call my brother or myself anyway. Once viruses and such are out of the picture, there's not much to screw up.

One problem have had with new ubuntu converts is that they sometimes feel the need delete the upper taskbar which, for some reason, majorly screws up the network manager.

Megaptera
November 14th, 2010, 08:39 PM
Yes teamviewer would be perfect! I already have it on both my computers and could familiarize myself with it here. Does anyone have experience of older people using Ubuntu? It's hard to have an unbiased view when one is somewhat computer literate..

I installed 10.04 on my in-law's PC a few weeks ago. They are in their 70s and were fed up with the dodgy XP Pro that my bro' in law had put on top of their perfectly good XP.
It ran so slow ... and lots of other problems.

They surf, bank and a bit of emailing. They love Ubuntu, it flies as they've plenty of RAM and fair ethernet connection.
They're pleased to have no need of anti-vius (use mywot) and no defrag. They've had no issues with taskbar at top or moving from IE to Firefox.

onaridge
November 14th, 2010, 09:08 PM
Ok sounds good! Too bad about Skype tho'. It's the only reason I still have ******* installed. Seems a shame.

Paqman
November 14th, 2010, 09:18 PM
You should be able to get Skype working. Recent version of Skype of Linux have improved vastly, and it now works pretty well.

Check out some of Alan Pope's "Mumbuntu (http://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=mumbuntu)" stuff about switching his mum to Ubuntu.

onaridge
November 14th, 2010, 09:40 PM
but I can't. Is the latest in the software center?

Mumbuntu, I love it!

lykwydchykyn
November 14th, 2010, 09:49 PM
Based on my experience with computer-shy family members:

- set it up completely before giving it over: IM accounts, browser plugins, network stuff, etc.

- Put shortcuts to common things on the desktop. Or, use a netbook interface.

- Only set up stuff that works and works solidly. Treat it like an appliance that only does certain things and that's it. Don't try to cover the whole ground of computer use cases, especially if Linux support is dodgy (e.g. skype).

- Once it's ready to go and they're using it, DON'T TOUCH IT until they ASK for support or help.

onaridge
November 14th, 2010, 09:56 PM
Yep that's my plan :-)
I will use teamviewer to access her computer if i have to.

3Miro
November 14th, 2010, 10:03 PM
- I too at the opinion that Ubuntu is perfect for people with zero or close to zero computer skills. So long as you set it up for them, they can just use it without worries about viruses and such.

- I have been Skype under Linux for a long time. I have tied the camera under 3 different laptops and never had trouble with Ubuntu. In it works under Mint and Susa, it is a configuration issue, although those are sometimes hard to figure (especially on a closed source software).

- The NetworkManager is controlled via the applet. NM doesn't do anything until an applet is loaded to tell it where to connect (nm-applet in Gnome or the KDE alternative). Thus deleting the top panel removes the notification area with the applet. You have to add a new notification area somewhere and all should be fine.

onaridge
November 14th, 2010, 10:11 PM
OK I am definitely convinced to install it on my mom's PC. In fact I'd like to convince anyone that doesn't have major specialty needs to install it.

re Skype, I have the applet in my panel. But I am not sure what you mean I should do with it. I open Skype, and then what do I do?

onaridge
November 14th, 2010, 10:20 PM
Got it to work. I didn't have start video automatically option checked. Hoorah. I can be all Ubuntu now.

cariboo
November 14th, 2010, 11:33 PM
Skype is in the partner repositories, I'm not sure about Lucid, but it's there for Maverick. I got it working on two different systems out of the box. One systems is my Compaq netbook and the other is a custom-built system made out of spare parts, the spare-parts system uses a Logitech Quickcam Messenger, that no longer works in Windows 7.

Spice Weasel
November 14th, 2010, 11:49 PM
Pfft. Who needs Teamviewer when you have SSH?

beew
November 14th, 2010, 11:49 PM
I think this is a bit patronizing to older people, isn't it?

Just because they are retired or old it doesn't mean that they are stupid or unwilling to learn new things.


P.S. The worst thing that we can do to older people is to treat them as if they are incompetent send them to activities for "seniors" only as if they suddenly belong to a different species. If you want scientific evidence that old dogs can learn new tricks check out research in neuroplasticity.

Old_Grey_Wolf
November 15th, 2010, 12:16 AM
I think this is a bit patronizing to older people, isn't it?

Just because they are retired or old it doesn't mean that they are stupid or unwilling to learn new things.


P.S. The worst thing that we can do to older people is to treat them as if they are incompetent send them to activities for "seniors" only as if they suddenly belong to a different species. If you want scientific evidence that old dogs can learn new tricks check out research in neuroplasticity.

It strikes me as funny that I am responding to this thread since I am 62 years old...

:lolflag:

I can't say I'm computer shy by any stretch of the imagination, nor my immediate family. My sister is 66 years old. She can modify the Kernel when she wants to as that is what she did in her carrier; therefore, also not computer shy. So, maybe my opinions are a little biased. However, I have helped fix other older people's computers.

Many older people have encountered various operating systems in their lifetime. Many of us used computers before there was a GUI, and they all had command line interfaces.

The point being, older people seem to be OS agnostic.

In my opinion, install an OS that doesn't change every 6 months; such as, an LTS of Ubuntu. Then let them learn to use it they way they want to.

If they have problems because they give the admin password to nephews, nieces, children, and grandchildren that use the computer to download questionable virus and trojan laden material, then don't give them the password. And, password protect the BIOS to protect them from the determined son that will do anything to get his P0rn, including changing the boot sequence in the BIOS to install an OS so that he can get his fix.

I find it sad to say that the biggest vulnerability that the elderly face is trusting the younger generations to live by the same family values that they themselves grew up with.

Plumtreed
November 15th, 2010, 01:22 AM
Funny post...and my 'numbers' are greater than any of the numbers mentioned here....I have Skype working...also 'Out of the Box'.

Ubuntu is so 'simple' I would suggest you present the idea and let these oldies enjoy working it out!

You might guide them towards things like Peppermint or eyeOS if their PCs are dated....I have seen these old PCs being passed on to the 'old folks' which is gifting a problem.

My suggestion might be to buy them a current Netbook and load Ubuntu Netbook version and then show them this forum....then go away!

onaridge
November 15th, 2010, 02:54 AM
Oh my I better choose my words more carefully. Lol. Ok then people that didn't grow up with an IPOD in their hand....how's that? But then am I patronizing the younger generation? My point is that my teen sons can whizzz around a new gadget much faster than I can because they've kinda been born to it. I consider myself reasonably computer literate and yet they will beat me anytime figuring out a new gadget. That isn't to say I don't know more about computers in general than they do but they have the knack because they live it whereas my generation inherited it and my parents and their peers have either accepted it or rejected it. Sure there are exceptions, but I think in general, 70 year olds are less accepting of the new technology as a rule no? Certainly in my experience this is true with some exceptions of course. For mother it's just a means to an end. She definitely doesn't want to work it out.

cloyd
November 15th, 2010, 03:52 AM
I'm sixty . . . I love Ubuntu. I am convinced that a new computer user would find Ubuntu easier than Windows. It is just that most people have learned Windows first, and then they have to unlearn their windows habits to use Ubuntu.

drawkcab
November 15th, 2010, 04:37 AM
- The NetworkManager is controlled via the applet. NM doesn't do anything until an applet is loaded to tell it where to connect (nm-applet in Gnome or the KDE alternative). Thus deleting the top panel removes the notification area with the applet. You have to add a new notification area somewhere and all should be fine.

It took me forever to figure this out for the first time!!! :( :)

sanderella
November 15th, 2010, 09:05 PM
I'm a retiree too, have used Ubuntu for several years, and I love it. Maybe we should form an old folks club?! :)

cpmman
November 15th, 2010, 09:32 PM
I'm a retiree too, have used Ubuntu for several years, and I love it. Maybe we should form an old folks club?! :)

Good idea - when I no longer feel able to drive my 150+mph Mercedes or 170+mph Yamaha or 660cc Motocross bike I may begin to feel old and slow down to computers only. At the moment though "estar para el gato" is too far in the future so I'll stick with my old man's pleasures.\\:D/

beew
November 16th, 2010, 12:42 AM
It strikes me as funny that I am responding to this thread since I am 62 years old...


Not at all. I know a 74 year old guy who went on solo camping-canoeing and a 67 year old going back to school to do a master. I am 34 but still, I think 62 year old is a youngster.:)

Old_Grey_Wolf
November 16th, 2010, 01:20 AM
Oh my I better choose my words more carefully. Lol. Ok then people that didn't grow up with an IPOD in their hand....how's that? But then am I patronizing the younger generation? ...

I don't think the 'old folks' on this forum get offended easily. I didn't see any responses from 'old folks' complaining about your post. The response you got about being patronizing came from someone under 50. Although, the 'old folks' could have made an issue of "...I am sure she could remember how to pick the OS she wants...", LOL.

I have been at my job when someone working in their cubical would say something like, "what is the command for doing...". I have answered. They would jerk their head up, stare at me with this look :shock:, and obviously wondering how the man with the white beard knew that. I just continue doing whatever I am doing; however, internally, I am LMAO.

I work with engineers. I have given CDs and DVDs of Linux OS's to them when they mention that they would like to try Linux at home. These engineers have all been in their 30s and 40s. Not a single one of them installed Linux themselves. When they got to the part about partitioning the hard drive they became cowards. So it is not just the 'old folks' that are reluctant to change when it is OS related.

Old_Grey_Wolf
November 16th, 2010, 01:36 AM
Not at all. I know a 74 year old guy who went on solo camping-canoeing and a 67 year old going back to school to do a master. I am 34 but still, I think 62 year old is a youngster.:)

My original replay to the thread was because of your post



I think this is a bit patronizing to older people, isn't it?

Just because they are retired or old it doesn't mean that they are stupid or unwilling to learn new things.


P.S. The worst thing that we can do to older people is to treat them as if they are incompetent send them to activities for "seniors" only as if they suddenly belong to a different species. If you want scientific evidence that old dogs can learn new tricks check out research in neuroplasticity.

I camp and have done white water rafting; however, I draw the line at jumping out of a perfectly good airplane with a parachute.
:lolflag:
However, this is off topic. This thread is about technology.

Old_Grey_Wolf
November 16th, 2010, 02:16 AM
"estar para el gato"

I have tried to translate that phrase without knowing the specific language. Does it mean something like "old age home"?

oboedad55
November 16th, 2010, 04:02 AM
Well, I don't know if I qualify as an "old man" yet although I do feel like one many days. I'm in my mid-50s and have been using Linux for years now. One thing you might want to consider is having your friend get an external drive of some sort and show her how to back up her /home directory. It's dead simple and can save much heartache. I know I'll get blasted for this but here goes. Take a look at Linux Mint, especially the latest version, 10. It has all the codecs and the Sun Java, etc. pre-installed. Again, it's quite simple. I don't understand the confusion moving from a Windows system. Upper left corner, "Applications", "System", "Places". What could be easier? A "Start" button with an incredible array of nested menus? I think not. I walked a mentally disabled friend of mine through an Ubuntu live-cd over the phone and she had it down in two minutes. Enjoy the ride!

windowsh8r
November 16th, 2010, 04:26 AM
About two years ago, I got tired of trying to constantly fix Vista on my wife's computer and switched to Ubuntu 8.04 and she has had no problems since. You can set it up for them and make it look like what they are used to, except it will work. For most people that use only email, internet, photo editing, and the like, there will be no difference other than increased reliability. Besides, if you do a good job setting it up for them, they might tell others how much they like Linux. The more the merrier.

t0p
November 16th, 2010, 04:52 AM
Addressing the Skype thing... would it not work in a guest XP in VirtualBox? Whenever I have experienced a seemingly-insoluble-in-Linux problem, I've found that a virtual XP will often do the job. You may need to use the non-Free version, for USB support; but I doubt that a Skype user will be bothered by that.

oldsoundguy
November 16th, 2010, 05:01 AM
I really hate the implication that when someone "retires" their brain turns to mush.

I retired in 1994 and am 73 years old. I FIX Windows computers for people in their 20s and on up because they haven't turned their brain ON and learned how to take care of the damn things themselves.

I have 5 Linux machines and 2 Windows machines in operation on my home network.

I don't need a baby sitter Linux computer.

cpmman
November 16th, 2010, 11:10 AM
I have tried to translate that phrase without knowing the specific language. Does it mean something like "old age home"?

It is Spanish and literally means "it is for the cat" - idiomatically it means "worthless". The phrase appeals to me because I have found in my 63 years that anything connected with cats is worthless or wasted. They are only good for chasing.

I do not resent the implication that retirement means lack of ability to embrace change. Being a "baby-boomer" following the second world war put me in the privileged position of being 13 in 1960 and 23 in 1970 - a true 60s child breaking the barriers of class and class privilege in the U.K. A working class lad who went to one of the best schools and learned the best lesson of all - acquired information is more reliable than received information (well known as FUD nowadays).

It is the younger generations who should be pitied because they were not part of that exciting time of change and of using multiple bases in everyday life (16oz, 14lbs, 12", 3', 22ˣ, 10ch, 8furlongs, 12d, 20s etc.) and using binary octal hexadecimal as just another base. If any of my children, grandchildren and their respective friends need help with computers in general I am willing to help them although my knowledge of computer gaming is non-existent.

linuxforartists
November 17th, 2010, 04:29 AM
Based on my experience with computer-shy family members:

- set it up completely before giving it over: IM accounts, browser plugins, network stuff, etc.

- Put shortcuts to common things on the desktop. Or, use a netbook interface.

- Only set up stuff that works and works solidly. Treat it like an appliance that only does certain things and that's it. Don't try to cover the whole ground of computer use cases, especially if Linux support is dodgy (e.g. skype).

- Once it's ready to go and they're using it, DON'T TOUCH IT until they ASK for support or help.

lykwydchykyn's list was excellent. A couple extra things I'd do:

-Already covered by what was said before, but install all the multimedia codecs: Flash, Java, DVD playback, etc.

- Set the OpenOffice programs to default save in Microsoft formats. That way if they send files to friends, they'll be able to open them without any issues.

An employer once couldn't open my resume, which I'd saved in ODF format. ](*,). Had to re-send it as a .doc file, then it was okay.

- Teach them how to use the Ubuntu Software Center to add and remove programs. The Linux Alternative Project (http://www.linuxalt.com/) has a handy list of open-source equivalents for commercial software. Really saved me when I was starting out with Ubuntu, because I didn't know which open-source programs did what.

Best of luck to your Mom!

guimaster
November 17th, 2010, 07:50 PM
I am a fairly new Ubuntu user and can now use it for everything but Skype so I retain the dual boot. I love Ubuntu!!! As I have been using Ubuntu and marveling over how easy it is to use once set up and how stable, and mostly spyware and virus free it is, I found myself wondering if I shouldn't install it on my mom's laptop. She is forever complaining about slow downs due most likely to viruses etc, and fragmentation and all the other things that make Windows a computer tech's dream. She is 72 and totally computer shy. I could set up a dual boot and I am sure she could remember how to pick the OS she wants and I would customize the desktop exactly how she wants it. All she does is mail and internet and photos with her camera. The only thing I worry about is if she did have to take it in to get fixed (she lives very far away from me) would anyone know how to troubleshoot Ubuntu. She will be here for 6 weeks giving me plenty of time to set it up and hopefully it will pick up her wireless router again when she goes home.

There should be a segment of computers that are sold with Ubuntu set up for older people. Why wouldn't they want it? If they aren't specialized in an area that does not have a program in Ubuntu or doesn't run well on WINE, why not?

I did this with my Mother's laptop earlier this year. She had a really old laptop and it was either Xubuntu or 2000 (which was reaching the end of it's support cycle). The bugginess of Xubuntu caused countless headaches so I scraped it and installed 2000 again for awhile. Then I figured I would try Ubuntu Hardy. I didn't expect it to work but it ran pretty well for her on the old IBM Thinkpad. 466mhz processor and 256mb ram.

The only complaint of hers was that she would download programs and they wouldn't install for her because they were for Windows. But the good side is that it prevented her from installing complete garbage like spyware on the laptop. We did have an issue when she wanted to install income tax software. I then had to create a dual-boot system with 2000.

She did have a tendency to accidentally move icons around the screen. Icons would disappear, shortcuts created, bizarre stuff. She said she didn't know how it happened. It wasn't so bad with Ubuntu but she did manage to get things mixed around a little bit. Lock everything down, is the best policy.

Old_Grey_Wolf
November 18th, 2010, 04:05 AM
She did have a tendency to accidentally move icons around the screen. Icons would disappear, shortcuts created, bizarre stuff. She said she didn't know how it happened. It wasn't so bad with Ubuntu but she did manage to get things mixed around a little bit. Lock everything down, is the best policy.

My wife's aunt, in her 80's, would have problems like that. She said she didn't do it. Actually, after a fixing the computer a few times, I found out from logs and looking at the downloaded files that she really didn't do it. She was letting her son and daughter, in their 50's, use the computer. They were the ones that where actually messing up the computer. I had to lock it down; including, limited privileges, not giving her an admin password, and password protecting the BIOS.

KiwiNZ
November 18th, 2010, 04:14 AM
Food for thought....

The Computer Industry as we know it now and the computers as we know them now are due to those that are retiring now or are already retired.

Megaptera
November 18th, 2010, 01:03 PM
Food for thought....

The Computer Industry as we know it now and the computers as we know them now are due to those that are retiring now or are already retired.


Amazing to think how fast progress has been in terms of memory & storage. What we have today on a laptop used to fill whole rooms or even buildings.

I think Ubuntu is a good choice for people (any age!) who want something that just works. Also, if someone who installs and configures it 'locks down' certain functions then the user has additional peace of mind that they can't accidently break it.
In Windows a moments inattention when dealing with emails and a malicious .exe could soon wreak havoc!

ratcat
November 18th, 2010, 05:11 PM
Ubuntu and Gnome have a small type problem. The fonts and icons are tiny compared to KDE and not resize-able. Checked Gnome Shell, even smaller icons on a 23" screen. Do engineers think we all use tiny phones and ipads? Or small screens?
A small monitor is a big improvement but useless for my art work. With 2 art boards on screen I need the space. I have icons on the desktop but those tiny fonts and icons on the top bar, fix?
AT 64 and more creative than ever, never stopping! :p

walt.smith1960
November 18th, 2010, 05:34 PM
"Whether you think you can or whether you think you can't, you're right"