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Sporkman
November 14th, 2010, 04:04 AM
A Short Guide to Consumer Disobedience

By miss minimalist

I live a minimalist lifestyle for many reasons: for example, I love the freedom, the flexibility, and the financial benefits of not owning a lot of stuff.

But I must admit, it’s also a chance to indulge my inner rebel. I’ve been a straight-A student, model employee, and overall law-abiding citizen; yet when it comes to consumerism, I can’t resist my desire to stick it to the man...

http://www.missminimalist.com/2010/11/a-short-guide-to-consumer-disobedience/

weasel fierce
November 14th, 2010, 08:08 AM
Thats rather interesting.

I am generally a pretty poor consumer, though as much out of financial need as anything else.

Almost all my video games are bought second hand (quake 4 was a distinct exception).
My video game console is a PS2 (loads of dirt cheap games now)
Im running Linux and don't use a single non-free app, outside of a few games.
My other hobby (tabletop roleplaying games) is largely second hand books (as the games I play are pretty old)
I watch TV on hulu and crackle.com, though we still have cable, as my wife likes it. We've talked about ditching it for netflicks, if we get a PS3 eventually.
New music is largely indie bands from some of the plentifull sources online where bands can upload their stuff. There's a few exceptions to this.
An awful lot of my video gaming is emulated C64 games, or games on my amiga.

The main exception is books really. I love books and Im not a huge fan of reading on the screen. I loved the library as a kid. Would spend hours there. Unfortunately where we live now, its a bit of a hassle to get there.

beew
November 14th, 2010, 08:18 AM
Interesting some people actually need to make an effort to be a poor consumer. I am just naturally a poor consumer. I don't need to work at being a minimalist and so do most of my friends. Guess it would be hard for middle class "normal" folks.

I have no compliant about my lifestyle, in fact I enjoy the freedom and irresponsibility. But I don't think I am waging some holy war against consumerism, nor do I think I am "rebelling". I just choose the lifestyle I enjoy.

I think it would only make sense to sermonize that message to other middle class "normal" folks. Some people need to have a cause and feel righteous for every small supposed sacrifice they perform. It is actually a kind of puritanism.

weasel fierce
November 14th, 2010, 08:20 AM
Interesting some people actually need to make an effort to be a poor consumer. I am just naturally a poor consumer. I don't need to work at being a minimalist and so do most of my friends. Guess it would be hard for middle class "normal" folks.

I think it would only make sense to sermonize that message to other middle class "normal" folks.

For me its one of those things that just sort of happened, because of my interests. It is interesting to me that it's a concerted lifestyle though.

mips
November 14th, 2010, 09:31 AM
I don't get why people constantly need to buy new stuff and then on credit as well. The USA probably has the biggest consumer orientated society out there yet on tv you see people battling to make ends meet and are in heavy debt yet you see new macbooks, huge lcd tv's, new cars in the driveway etc.

weasel fierce
November 14th, 2010, 09:40 AM
I know more than a few people at work who buy 3-400 dollar cell phones but struggle to pay rent each month

bouncingwilf
November 14th, 2010, 10:12 AM
With the exception of enough fishing tackle to start a shop, my needs and accumulated detritus are modest. However, this does mean that when I do see something I want, I buy it without qualms (and as I haven't squandered the cash on some high end but essentially useless gadget, ) can afford it,

Bouncingwilf

Spice Weasel
November 14th, 2010, 11:46 AM
I'm a poor consumer naturally too... I don't really understand how people can think that buying things makes you happy/cool.

koenn
November 14th, 2010, 12:22 PM
... need to have a cause and feel righteous ...
There's a lot of that in miss minimalists's little lists. And a lot of 'everybody see how original, creative and special I am (and btw buy my book)'

It's funny, in a sad kinda way, how some people need to make a big deal out of doing what others do naturally, or out of necessity.

handy
November 14th, 2010, 01:08 PM
I really enjoyed reading the guide & all of the posts in the blog. Good stuff.

Sporkman
November 14th, 2010, 02:36 PM
It's funny, in a sad kinda way, how some people need to make a big deal out of doing what others do naturally, or out of necessity.

You must understand that hyper-consumerism is a way of life here in the US, and for an American to opt-out of it is indeed a big deal. You have to change your whole outlook and ways of doing things that you've been raised with.

MasterNetra
November 14th, 2010, 05:01 PM
I know more than a few people at work who buy 3-400 dollar cell phones but struggle to pay rent each month

Which is probably why they struggle to pay rent each month. Luxuries placed before needs.


You must understand that hyper-consumerism is a way of life here in the US, and for an American to opt-out of it is indeed a big deal. You have to change your whole outlook and ways of doing things that you've been raised with.

+1

Here in America we are bombarded with ads from birth, commercialism is heavily integrated into the normal (average) social structure and has been for multiple generations. If you don't have the latest this and that, your not as desirable, etc etc etc or whatever. That's pretty much the environment many Americans are raised in. So yea it can be difficult for many born and raised here to adopt a minimalist life style.

This is more so for city dwellers then country folks. But meh.

koenn
November 14th, 2010, 05:13 PM
You must understand that hyper-consumerism is a way of life here in the US, and for an American to opt-out of it is indeed a big deal. You have to change your whole outlook and ways of doing things that you've been raised with.

hm, yeah, I get that (I think) - all the fuss is a way of justifying behavior that would brand you a looser if you didn't do it on purpose., for a greater cause, ...

Still kinda sad (or maybe it's just me being rather allergic to fuss)

A society that depends on the hyper-consumerism you speak of, is also kinda sad, I think.
(start the thread lock counter)

Sporkman
November 14th, 2010, 05:20 PM
A society that depends on the hyper-consumerism you speak of, is also kinda sad, I think.

There's a bright side though - US consumers have been drivers of the world economy for the past half-century+. The economies of many countries have been bouyed by exports to the US. Alas, it of course is not sustainable, and the party is rapidly coming to a close.

Sporkman
November 14th, 2010, 05:27 PM
The "rebellion" portion of the blog post appeals to me, though. Sometimes I feel like large companies are trying to screw me & get as much money from me as possible. The way to rebel & "stick it to the man" is to transfer as little of my wealth from my pocket to his (The Man's, that is. :) ).

koenn
November 14th, 2010, 05:48 PM
There's a bright side though - US consumers have been drivers of the world economy for the past half-century+. The economies of many countries have been bouyed by exports to the US. Alas, it of course is not sustainable, and the party is rapidly coming to a close.

yeah, that was part of the plan after WO II, wasn't it : get the world's economies up and running again by mass consumerism. The economy of the US itself benefited as well, of course.
And as you say, it's not sustainable ...

koenn
November 14th, 2010, 05:51 PM
The "rebellion" portion of the blog post appeals to me, though. Sometimes I feel like large companies are trying to screw me & get as much money from me as possible. The way to rebel & "stick it to the man" is to transfer as little of my wealth from my pocket to his (The Man's, that is. :) ).

"Brave New World" had the same extreme consumer-based economy.
(and things didn't end well for the rebel)

:)

RaZe42
November 14th, 2010, 06:10 PM
"Brave New World" had the same extreme consumer-based economy.
(and things didn't end well for the rebel)

:)

A very good and thought-provoking book. Anyone who hasn't read it should do so, pronto.

I'm off to take my soma ration now...

drawkcab
November 14th, 2010, 07:38 PM
There's a great bbc miniseries called The Century of The Self that follows the evolution of public relations, advertising and marketing technologies through the 20th century beginning with Freud's insights and ending with **** Morris's strategies to get Clinton re-elected.

The fact is that it takes quite a bit of education to recognize and resist such technologies because they operate on us from childhood shaping, not only behaviors of consumption, but also how we form our self identities at the most fundamental level.

Austin25
November 14th, 2010, 08:17 PM
Yeah, huge point on trendiness.
Arduino (http://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17&products_id=50&zenid=df2b13bf0936bd7296161bc37ff5bc77) vs. Lego NXT (http://shop.lego.com/Product/?p=9841).
Generic MP3 (http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Digital-Music-Player-Red/dp/B003Z3NGTG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1289762068&sr=8-1) vs. iPod (http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Graphite-Generation-NEWEST-MODEL/dp/B002L6HE9G/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1289761870&sr=1-1).
Windows (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/buy/products/offers-family-pack.aspx) vs Ubuntu (http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/download).

czr114
November 14th, 2010, 08:29 PM
Step one is to think of yourself as something other than just a "consumer."

I prefer the term "human being." I exist for reasons other than serving as a once-through alimentary canal.

The language we use affects how we think. If we self-identify as end consumers, then we're not thinking in terms of being creators, producers, or community participants.

lykeion
November 14th, 2010, 08:52 PM
Tried to comment on the page asking if I could borrow the book advertised on the blog. This comment was not accepted. Hmm

robert shearer
November 14th, 2010, 08:57 PM
yeah, that was part of the plan after WO II, wasn't it : get the world's economies up and running again by mass consumerism. The economy of the US itself benefited as well, of course.
And as you say, it's not sustainable ...

Perhaps the economies where the US had control and therefore benefited ?.

At the same time many European countries went down the road of shorter working weeks which led to overall lower incomes and fewer meaningless consumer goods.

More leisure time vs more gadgets.

Since WWII the average US households consumption has increased 50% whilst the time available to enjoy the trappings of their new found wealth has decreased markedly.

No wonder many Americans consider 'shopping' to be a leisure activity. :):):)

koenn
November 14th, 2010, 09:06 PM
tried to comment on the page asking if i could borrow the book advertised on the blog.
:)

drawkcab
November 14th, 2010, 09:12 PM
Consumer societies in late capitalism need to produce, above all else, new desires and needs. We are continuously bombarded with the message that we are inadequate in some way and that the only way these inadequacies can be addressed is through the consumption of some product or another. Hence we tend to identify so passionately with the branded products that we consume.

So yeah, shopping is incredibly satisfying emotionally for most folks. The satisfaction is, of course short-lived. But so much the better to keep people constantly consuming. Researching, trialing, purchasing and discussing consumer products commands an inordinate amount of leisure time just as our participating in consumer society robs us of that leisure time.

koenn
November 14th, 2010, 09:24 PM
Perhaps the economies where the US had control and therefore benefited ?.
IIRC, it was kind of the flip side of the Marshall Plan, so it would be mostley in Allied countries. I don't remember all the details, but I think I got most of this from that BBC documentary someone mentioned - it covers it quite well.




No wonder many Americans consider 'shopping' to be a leisure activity.
Yeah, that's a sign.

koenn
November 14th, 2010, 09:28 PM
Consumer societies in late capitalism need to produce, above all else, new desires and needs. We are continuously bombarded with the message that we are inadequate in some way and that the only way these inadequacies can be addressed is through the consumption of some product or another. Hence we tend to identify so passionately with the branded products that we consume.

So yeah, shopping is incredibly satisfying emotionally for most folks. The satisfaction is, of course short-lived. But so much the better to keep people constantly consuming. Researching, trialing, purchasing and discussing consumer products commands an inordinate amount of leisure time just as our participating in consumer society robs us of that leisure time.

and then they wonder why their lives feel empty and meaningless.
but we can sell you something to fix that.

czr114
November 14th, 2010, 11:39 PM
We're finally starting to see some of the limits to the infinite growth paradigm in our finite world.

spoons
November 14th, 2010, 11:59 PM
I don't like consuming. I like making things - When I bought Train Simulator in 2001, I ended up spending more time making my own routes and trains than I did playing the actual game. I found that boring. I think that's what it's about - designing, making, understanding. That's the only way we'll advance further as a species. It's just a shame we're discouraged from doing so - as that, I think, is our fundamental purpose.

[/philosophical paragraph over]

handy
November 15th, 2010, 02:07 AM
After reading the link in this thread yesterday I made a thread in another small forum, & I placed the thread in the Conspiracy sub-forum.

Today I just had a look & there was a post that asked why I put it in the Conspiracy section, I wrote the following:



Due to the consumer paradigm being a conspiracy that keeps people diverted from reality?

Due to the act of intentionally increasing the numbers of people who choose not to succumb to the (nearly) ever present reinforcement of consumerism being a conspiracy?

I'll move the thread if you like, where do you want it put?

czr114
November 15th, 2010, 02:21 AM
It certainly seems like it, in many ways. The techniques of compartmentalization, convenience, and reinforcement pitched by the modern advertising machine and the consumer culture seem like they're taking a page straight from Skinner with regard to conditioning people to blissfully consume.

drawkcab
November 15th, 2010, 03:06 AM
Actually it's not skinner so much as it is Freud.

Here's an example from the aforementioned documentary:

When the first cake mixes came out from Duncan Hines, they didn't sell very well. Ad execs hired psychoanalysts to hold focus groups and what they determined is that housewives felt an inredible amount of guilt when buying a cake mix while their husbands were out working hard for them. The psychoanalysts determined that if they changed the cake mix so that the wife had to add and egg (an unconscious symbol of female fertility and so on) to the cake mix, the guilt largely vanished. Duncan Hines changed its formula and engineered an ad campaign which focused not on convenience but on adding the egg. Sales skyrocketed, and to this day you have to add an egg to many cake mixes although it is entirely unnecessary.

handy
November 15th, 2010, 03:56 AM
The documentaries are available free (legally) here:

http://www.archive.org/details.php?identifier=the.century.of.the.self

Khakilang
November 15th, 2010, 05:25 AM
I consider myself as minimalist as compare to my brothers and sisters. My computer is the center of my entertainment beside doing normal work. So I don't have to get a hi fi stereo, big LCD TV and all those speakers. Small apartment with simple furniture. I don't have any fancy things or collectible. In this way I can save some money for just in case situation or some people say, saving for a rainy days.

weasel fierce
November 15th, 2010, 09:14 AM
I consider myself as minimalist as compare to my brothers and sisters. My computer is the center of my entertainment beside doing normal work. So I don't have to get a hi fi stereo, big LCD TV and all those speakers. Small apartment with simple furniture. I don't have any fancy things or collectible. In this way I can save some money for just in case situation or some people say, saving for a rainy days.

Even though I grew up in the 80s and 90s where this became common, it always amazes me how many things a computer can replace.

I am genuinely tempted to just get a slightly bigger monitor for my PC to watch stuff online than worry about buying a huge tv.

weasel fierce
November 15th, 2010, 09:16 AM
Tried to comment on the page asking if I could borrow the book advertised on the blog. This comment was not accepted. Hmm

well played sir :)

beew
November 15th, 2010, 09:19 AM
I consider myself as minimalist as compare to my brothers and sisters. My computer is the center of my entertainment beside doing normal work. So I don't have to get a hi fi stereo, big LCD TV and all those speakers. Small apartment with simple furniture. I don't have any fancy things or collectible. In this way I can save some money for just in case situation or some people say, saving for a rainy days.

So you mean you are a geek?:) This is ok, in this place geeks are revered.

weasel fierce
November 15th, 2010, 09:21 AM
An observation I've made at work and elsewhere:
I think a lot of times "geek" gets tossed out by people that don't consider themselves that way, as another word for "actually thinks about their choices".

lykeion
November 15th, 2010, 01:36 PM
well played sir :)

Thanks, just tried to point out the obvious hipocrisy.
Reading through the other comments on the blog, there is not a single critical one, just praises and hallelujah. But I guess it's not good for book sales to let other opinions come through.

mips
November 15th, 2010, 02:01 PM
I consider myself as minimalist as compare to my brothers and sisters. My computer is the center of my entertainment beside doing normal work. So I don't have to get a hi fi stereo, big LCD TV and all those speakers. Small apartment with simple furniture. I don't have any fancy things or collectible. In this way I can save some money for just in case situation or some people say, saving for a rainy days.

Years ago I got myself a pretty good NAD 5.1 surround system. I however rarely used it and it's now packed away in the original boxes. Instead I use a 30yr old NAD 3020i stereo amp I got from a pawn shop, it's a legendary little amp although you can get better today.

Thing is I love music but I will never again buy a surround system, somewhere in the future I would get myself a good stereo system and that is where it ends.

It's ok to spend a bit of money on something you enjoy and gives you hours of pleasure and lasts you a long time unlike all the gadgets that you kinda get bored of after 2-3 months.

nlsthzn
November 15th, 2010, 02:20 PM
Good read!

Evil-Ernie
November 15th, 2010, 03:02 PM
I'm finding that its a bit pretentious and a middle-class preaching view of the world.

When anybody says the phrase 'Stick it to the man' I shudder because usually its uttered by somebody that hasn't had a hard life, isn't downtrodden and has no reason to be ungrateful for the society that produced them.

I do a lot of things listed not to 'Stick it to the man' (TM) but because I hate waste so I buy a lot of second hand, also I am not the most financially solvent person I know LOL!

Sporkman
November 15th, 2010, 03:19 PM
Thanks, just tried to point out the obvious hipocrisy.
Reading through the other comments on the blog, there is not a single critical one, just praises and hallelujah. But I guess it's not good for book sales to let other opinions come through.

There is nothing wrong with trying to sell something.

She's offering free advice in her blog post, take it or leave it. I don't see any hypocrisy there. One way to look at it is she's advising you not to buy her book. :)

Tristam Green
November 15th, 2010, 04:00 PM
There's a lot of that in miss minimalists's little lists. And a lot of 'everybody see how original, creative and special I am (and btw buy my book)'

It's funny, in a sad kinda way, how some people need to make a big deal out of doing what others do naturally, or out of necessity.

I read that too, and feel much the same. People who write drivel like this remind me of the nonconformists on South Park.

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs48/f/2009/178/e/e/Nonconformists__by_vegetarian_superhero.jpg


You must understand that hyper-consumerism is a way of life here in the US, and for an American to opt-out of it is indeed a big deal. You have to change your whole outlook and ways of doing things that you've been raised with.

It's not a big deal. It's not a spiritual journey to self-cleansing, as she would have you feel, either.


I'm finding that its a bit pretentious and a middle-class preaching view of the world.

When anybody says the phrase 'Stick it to the man' I shudder because usually its uttered by somebody that hasn't had a hard life, isn't downtrodden and has no reason to be ungrateful for the society that produced them.

I do a lot of things listed not to 'Stick it to the man' (TM) but because I hate waste so I buy a lot of second hand, also I am not the most financially solvent person I know LOL!

Hear, hear.

Sean Moran
November 15th, 2010, 04:04 PM
Necessity is the mother of all invention.
:guitar:

RiceMonster
November 15th, 2010, 04:18 PM
I don't feel the need to separate myself from society or feel better about myself by refusing to buy things that are deemed "trendy". I look at it myself, and if I feel I can easily afford it, and there would be some well worthwhile advantages to owning it, I'll buy it, regardless of how "trendy" it is.

For example, I bought an iPhone because I thought a smartphone would make my life a little more convenient, the iPhone was the best option for me, and I had lots of funds at my disposal, so it hardly set me back. I also took my time and really thought it out if I wanted to buy it and if it was worth the money, just like I do with all my large purchases. Up until then I never bought an iPod because in terms of a device that's just for playing music, I thought other options were better. I also didn't buy an iPad, because I don't see the appeal.

Evil-Ernie
November 15th, 2010, 04:25 PM
I like the non-conformist toon, very funny but also very true. I run an 'alternative' club night and every gig I see lots of kids screaming 'IM UNIQUE JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!' LOL yet some of these people (not all I must point out) sneer at other punters who 'dont look the part'. As long as you dig the music, enjoy what you do and don't cause any bother I'm a happy chappie :)

drawkcab
November 16th, 2010, 04:24 AM
I just want to point out that the posts on this page ^^^ make it seem as if what's at stake with a minimalist response to consumer society is whether or not you can forge an identity that is in some way authentic. But this issue itself buys into the very premise that allows consumer society to operate: that your identity is somehow forged by your patterns of consumption, minmalistic or not.

The fact of the matter is that the stakes are now higher than whether or not an individual can form a truly authentic identity. As we have this discussion, the dominant culture of consumption is in the process of producing and consuming itself out of existence because it is finally running up against the environmental and thermodynamic limitations of our way of life. The fact of the matter is that late industrial-capitalism is simply not sustainable and will come to an end one way or another.

handy
November 16th, 2010, 05:37 AM
Our current rate of consumption is no real problem at all, provided we can find 3 other identical planets to strip of their resources that provide free transportation of those resources to Earth.

sidzen
November 16th, 2010, 06:27 AM
As Solomon said, "Vanity! Vanity! All is vanity!" (The seeking after of knowledge, the seeking after of riches)

What is being put forth here is a rejection of the current system of things. Whether it be half-hearted or not or sincere or not is not for me to judge. Rejection of Babylon is, nonetheless, a correct thing. What we replace it with is the deciding factor, however. This boils down to Freedom of Choice. Please choose wisely and let those in charge know of your choice, if you dare.

Speaking of Freedom, I was placed on Earth over a half-century ago. Between then and now I made a lot of wrong choices, but one right one was to enjoy the Freedom my country offered, and to enjoy it to its fullest. I have no retirement, but I am grateful for the times of joy that that physical Freedom (which no longer exists in my beloved country) enabled me to have. I hitchhiked BC to Bexar County round trip thrice, once through the Land of Fruits and Nuts. I enjoyed the golden aspens of W Colorado in early October. Saw a grizzly bear in the mountains south of Hope. Worked in the woods when there were still big trees (e.g. greater than a meter in diameter ABH). Thanks to the One.

A belated "hats off" goes to those who, having come before me and who, having made a pledge to "defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies foreign and domestic . . .", enabled me to fully enjoy a Freedom in my life that most seeing this can only read about! Some pledged with their lives. Thank you.

The physical has been replaced by the spiritual now. So, belittle it at your own peril! It does not belong to man who walks to direct his step. Again, choose wisely, please.

Best wishes!

Alpha101
November 16th, 2010, 06:47 AM
In short: Save money, use cash, don't force yourself to be super frugal but understand what you -have to do comes first- and not -want to do-
/wall

Now lets consider it from another point of view shall we?Is it not wrong to have a passion for something?What of avid gamers? Mechanics? Fashion designers/followers? Any specific thing that can truly ignite an interest in you?

Consider you may still spend money on these things, just because you love it. Why not? It's not a matter of wanting to buy these things, it's a matter of planning. Make sure funds are secure for the necessities, handle your needs first and wants second.

You should make sure bills are done, and you have a little extra in case **** goes down the drain. The best idea, and maybe the strongest divider can be simply placing 40% income into the checking account and then 60% in savings. Paying bills, and holding money aside, within savings.

With the limited funds within checking, you can spend on yourself. Etch out a gas budget if you can work with either savings or checking, perhaps using savings being the one to take a bigger hit.

Resolving necessity from excessiveness is key though, and knowing that you can save as much as possible by living frugally. Then you will manage to save for excessively awesome items within your field.

Perhaps you have a want to save for a sick new motherboard for a gaming rig...? The newest in technology and clothing? Parts for your massive DIY project? Like a new rig for your car? The question is do you have enough money backed up? Paying cash (unless it's say...an on-line purchase) forces you to be conscious of what your doing.

Perhaps even consider putting 60% of a paycheck into savings and then using the rest on day to day.


/wall

Evil-Ernie
November 16th, 2010, 10:47 AM
Thats a good point, what about if you do spend all of your spare earnings on the one thing you love. Should you feel guilty for that one pleasure?

Tristam Green
November 16th, 2010, 01:29 PM
Thats a good point, what about if you do spend all of your spare earnings on the one thing you love. Should you feel guilty for that one pleasure?

Yes. And you should buy a tee-shirt that reads "just one of the flock" for good measure.

I sometimes wonder how many pairs of rose-colored glasses hipsters own.

handy
November 16th, 2010, 01:52 PM
Half empty or half full?

Your choice.

Sean Moran
November 16th, 2010, 02:04 PM
I like to categorise my needs into four groups: physical, psychological, intellectual, and spiritual.

Physical needs come first, ie. beer and smokes and something to eat and a bed at night under a roof that doesn't leak and has wifi.

It's up to the individual whether spiritual or intellectual needs are more important, but there's nothing you can't learn off the 'Net if you look around so I put spiritual as second to physical needs. Some scientific martyrs might change that order and I admire their lovingkindness for the sake of academic falsifiability.

Psychological needs are most commonly known as "wants" and that's how shops make money. Out of people buying things that they think they need, but in reality they just want. Maybe we can include lithium as a psychological need, but most of the money gets spent on crap doesn't offer anything of value in a year's time or so.

drawkcab
November 17th, 2010, 08:11 PM
our current rate of consumption is no real problem at all, provided we can find 3 other identical planets to strip of their resources that provide free transportation of those resources to earth.

lol! ;)

czr114
November 17th, 2010, 08:18 PM
Our current rate of consumption is no real problem at all, provided we can find 3 other identical planets to strip of their resources that provide free transportation of those resources to Earth.
Three identical planets can't save us from unbounded exponential functions covering population, energy usage, and resource depletion, over the continued flow of time. Neither can 30, 300, 3000, or even more. Until public policy and public attitudes respect the exponential function, and attempt to defuse it, all that can be gained from additional resource discoveries is a time shift in the moment of overshoot.

mr-woof
November 17th, 2010, 11:59 PM
Personally, i'll buy something if i need it and I think it'll make my life easier/better, basically what ricemonster mentioned further up the thread.

I do agree that people have far too much stuff and a lot of people do buy items just to be in the trendy crowd, I think the ipad falls into this group for me. I've had a go of one, it's very nice but I've got no real use or reason to have one, so hence I haven't bought one.

I think the problem is when people become almost addicted to shopping and end up with every gadget, tons of clothes that they can't/don't wear and because of all this massive debt.