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Dragonbite
November 11th, 2010, 04:27 PM
Was wondering, if the response to Oracle has been "fork!" (MySQL, OpenOffice.org, what's next?) then is it a matter of time before Java forks (let's call it Coffee for the sake of illustration).

Freshly brewed Coffee could try to address the issues that have plagued Java and push Coffee development model to be more open source style (shared libraries, upstream versions, repositories, etc.).

Would this be a good idea? Think this could eventually usurp Java as a truly cross-platform open source language closer to the "write once run everywhere" dream?

alket
November 11th, 2010, 05:13 PM
I think that GNU and IBM forked it already before Oracle purchase

MasterNetra
November 11th, 2010, 05:15 PM
I think that GNU and IBM forked it already before Oracle purchase

Really whats the forked version called? Or has even been released by them yet?

kaldor
November 11th, 2010, 05:16 PM
I don't know much about it at all, but would it be IcedTea?

alket
November 11th, 2010, 05:24 PM
Really whats the forked version called? Or has even been released by them yet?

GNU : http://gcc.gnu.org/java/
IBM : http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/linux/download.html

MasterNetra
November 11th, 2010, 05:55 PM
GNU : http://gcc.gnu.org/java/
IBM : http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/linux/download.html

Ah its the Java SE.

lykeion
November 11th, 2010, 06:18 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK

Dale61
November 12th, 2010, 12:05 PM
I was having minor, but frustrating, problems with OO before Oracle came onto the scene.

Since then, I have found out that a lot of the previous OO developers have moved on to, hopefully, bigger and better things. Now called The Document Foundation (http://www.documentfoundation.org/), the 'new' Open Office, or LibreOffice as it is now called, seems a lot more stable than the old OpenOffice.

I've included the link (above), so try it for yourself and see if you notice any difference.

ukripper
November 12th, 2010, 03:42 PM
Java already forked by MS ages ago --> C#

slackthumbz
November 12th, 2010, 03:46 PM
If Java forks and Oracles implementation dies because, let's face it, the community hate them and would be better off without them, then that can only be a good thing. The more people giving greedy whores like Oracle the finger, the better.

StarQuake
November 12th, 2010, 04:01 PM
In my experience the software I was using that got forked only got better.

Mambo -> Joomla!
When Joomla! forked Mambo the first things they did was fix a lot of bugs and design errors which made it a much better program.

X11 -> X.org
I don't know if it was because it was forked but after it got forked, development of 3D effects on the desktop took a flight!

I can't think of any more right now.

I expect the same to happen with the Oracle software.

slackthumbz
November 12th, 2010, 04:05 PM
Java already forked by MS ages ago --> C#

That's some kind of sarcasm right?

ukripper
November 12th, 2010, 04:18 PM
That's some kind of sarcasm right?

http://jonathanischwartz.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal/

Ex CEO of Sun Microsystems wrote blog:


So when they created their web application platform, .NET, it was obvious their designers had been staring at Java – which was exactly my retort. “We’ve looked at .NET, and you’re trampling all over a huge number of Java patents. So what will you pay us for every copy of Windows?” Bill explained the software business was all about building variable revenue streams from a fixed engineering cost base, so royalties didn’t fit with their model… which is to say, it was a short meeting.

slackthumbz
November 12th, 2010, 04:29 PM
http://jonathanischwartz.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal/

Ex CEO of Sun Microsystems wrote blog:

Creating a similar system to Java is not the same as forking and in all fairness C# is a better language.

(Que the rabid anti-MS fanboyism in 3...2...1...)

ukripper
November 12th, 2010, 04:36 PM
(Que the rabid anti-MS fanboyism in 3...2...1...)

Not anti-MS here. I agree with you C# is better language overall than java but definitely a fork.

i use more C# and ironpython in development than I ever did with java and jython.

slackthumbz
November 12th, 2010, 04:38 PM
Not anti-MS here. I agree with you C# is better language overall than java but definitely a fork.

i use more C# and ironpython in development than I ever did with java and jython.

I think we may have different views on the semantics surrounding the word fork here but at least we agree on C# :)

ukripper
November 12th, 2010, 04:41 PM
I think we may have different views on the semantics surrounding the word fork here but at least we agree on C# :)

100% agree on C# but not as a mono project. On linux i prefer pure cpython

phrostbyte
November 12th, 2010, 04:43 PM
Can we just all move on to Scala? :)

Dragonbite
November 12th, 2010, 04:56 PM
Looks like IBM is backing Oracles's Java so it may not be quite so easy to fork Java successfully.

With LibreOffice they have the developer experience and product know-how to make a go at it and have half a chance to succeed!

I think Java would need some big names (Google? Red Hat?) as well as some capable managers and community developers to move off Java. I don't see that happening the same as LibreOffice did.

slackthumbz
November 12th, 2010, 05:04 PM
Looks like IBM is backing Oracles's Java so it may not be quite so easy to fork Java successfully.

With LibreOffice they have the developer experience and product know-how to make a go at it and have half a chance to succeed!

I think Java would need some big names (Google? Red Hat?) as well as some capable managers and community developers to move off Java. I don't see that happening the same as LibreOffice did.

Apple appear to be backing Oracle too: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/12/apple_oracle_openjdk_project/

But I pretty much expected apple to side with a bunch of ****'s like oracle.

Chame_Wizard
November 12th, 2010, 05:15 PM
If Oracle is not stupid.

ukripper
November 12th, 2010, 05:25 PM
Oracle didn't just buy SUN to play hide and seek with Open source. They have a master plan -"Domination".
Round 1....
Showdown Google vs Oracle at somewhere down the line. Refree - Opensource
Round 10.....
MS and Apple perhaps be on the sidelines ready to scavenge on any clients leaving the warzone.

forrestcupp
November 12th, 2010, 05:49 PM
Not anti-MS here. I agree with you C# is better language overall than java but definitely a fork.
A fork is when a group of developers take existing code and begin to develop that specific code with a different goal in mind than what the original team had. Microsoft did not take the code for Java and begin to develop that code into what became C#. C# is just a similar language, but the underlying .Net framework and the bytecode that it generates is completely different and was created from the ground up.


Apple appear to be backing Oracle too: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/12/apple_oracle_openjdk_project/

But I pretty much expected apple to side with a bunch of ****'s like oracle.I don't put much stock in The Register. But here's another article (http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9196324/Apple_joins_Oracle_s_OpenJDK_project) confirming that.

ukripper
November 12th, 2010, 06:14 PM
A fork is when a group of developers take existing code and begin to develop that specific code with a different goal in mind than what the original team had. Microsoft did not take the code for Java and begin to develop that code into what became C#. C# is just a similar language, but the underlying .Net framework and the bytecode that it generates is completely different and was created from the ground up.


At work we have been using word "fork" differently. Good to know what it means widely.

Dragonbite
November 12th, 2010, 06:20 PM
A fork is when a group of developers take existing code and begin to develop that specific code with a different goal in mind than what the original team had. Microsoft did not take the code for Java and begin to develop that code into what became C#.

A well described definition of "fork". I agree with this meaning, and that C# is not a fork, just a "conspicuously similar" copy. ;)

forrestcupp
November 13th, 2010, 04:16 AM
A well described definition of "fork". I agree with this meaning, and that C# is not a fork, just a "conspicuously similar" copy. ;)
That's why that ex CEO from Sun Microsystems talked about IP patents instead of copyright infringement. It's obvious that Java was one of the models for C#. I don't think it was the only model, though. Honestly, a lot of languages have a lot of similarities.