How good is Open SuSE ?

[xXx 0wn3d xXx]

I was just wondering, how is Open SuSE ? Can someone who has used it tell me how it is ? I won't be abandoning Ubuntu, I'm just want to see what this distro is like. It is worth installing ?

[ComplexNumber]

its very good. you're best off trying it to see for yourself.

[Derek Djons]

To each his own I guess. I've been a SuSE users for years. The reason why I switched to Ubuntu has nothing with Ubuntu being better. I just like the way Debian / Ubuntu works with for example package management more than SuSE with it's .rpm's.

OpenSuSE is a distro which has been constructed by skilled developers and is really somthing to try it out.

[ComplexNumber]

I just like the way Debian / Ubuntu works with for example package management more than SuSE with it's .rpm's.
there's not much difference. suse and other rpm distros have apt-get too.

[xXx 0wn3d xXx]

I think that I'll stick with Ubuntu.

[ComplexNumber]

I think that I'll stick with Ubuntu.
what made you arrive at that sudden decision?

[xXx 0wn3d xXx]

what made you arrive at that sudden decision?
The reason I made that decision is because I'm already very happy with Ubuntu. I know it may seem like a narrow view but I really like the community here and many other things about Ubuntu. Maybe I'll try it later or in a few days. Right now I'm going to seed some Ubuntu i386 isos :)

[briancurtin]

edit.un-necessary post

[HolyMurderer]

I'm thinking on moving to Suse. The main reasin is that Ubuntu is very dedicated to Gnome, and Kubuntu has bad support... I prefer KDE. Who uses Kubuntu, desn't think this also?

i've tried Suse 10.1 in a test pc I have, which is a celeron 600, and it runs great and fast there. I haven't tried more than 1h or so, Suse 10.1 and Fedora Core 5. Fedora looks good, but I've liked more Suse. I know this opinion is only based in first impressions, like the first updates, package management, option specific of each distro, and the look itself.
I'll try more Suse and maybe Fedora, and then I'll comment.

[ComplexNumber]

I'm thinking on moving to Suse. The main reasin is that Ubuntu is very dedicated to Gnome, and Kubuntu has bad support... I prefer KDE. Who uses Kubuntu, desn't think this also?

i've tried Suse 10.1 in a test pc I have, which is a celeron 600, and it runs great and fast there. I haven't tried more than 1h or so, Suse 10.1 and Fedora Core 5. Fedora looks good, but I've liked more Suse. I know this opinion is only based in first impressions, like the first updates, package management, option specific of each distro, and the look itself.
I'll try more Suse and maybe Fedora, and then I'll comment. KDE is the best i've ever tried for any distro in suse. well, that was in suse 10. from then on, its a gnome distro (despite what they may say about giving the user the choice of either desktop. according to this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Linux_distributions), neither kde nor gnome is default. HOWEVER, the small print says that gnome is the default in suse from suse 10 onwards and gnome is whats going to be given the most favoured attention. novell would be foolish for it to be any other way considering that they wanted to get rid of KDE completely for their SLED). if i were you, i'd go for mephis instead. i say this just in case you want to invest some time in suse for the long run given your liking for kde. if so, you'll probably find yourself disappointed.

[drizek]

in all honestly, suse is way better than ubuntu.

i just wish theyd stop pulling all this mono/gtk crap. I dont understand why novell would aquire a very kde-centric distro and start developing gtk apps on it.

Edit: at one point in the beta process gnome was selected as default. now, neither one is selected, but if you read the descriptions you see that they try to make kde look bad. first they say that it doesnt include firefox(which is a flat out lie, its is the default browser) and they also put it below gnome, which is stupid considering kde on suse is still more mature at this point.

[prizrak]

I didn't like SuSE 10 when I tried it. It didn't select the right drivers for my GeForce card and even after installing the binary driver xorg still had vm as a driver assignment. In short I didn't like the GUI driven administration as it generated overly complex config files, which just didn't sit well with me as I'm used to that. There is also the fact that Ubuntu detected my hardware way better than SuSE. This is all very subjective of course I personally didn't find it as comfortable to work with as Ubuntu so try it out see what develops.

[drizek]

both detected my hardware perfectly(suse, for some reason didnt include wifi drivers though, ill file a bug). The difference is that with suse i was able to plug my printer/scanner in and was able to just configure it in a few seconds. Ive never really tried with ubuntu, but im fairly sure that isnt possible.

[HolyMurderer]

Each day that passes, each distro I try, I miss more my first real distro, Slack... i've used it for so long, and it gave me 0 problems... The only thing about it is the time it takes for me to configure everything.

Right now I only want a good distro for a normal Desktop, in which I don't do much more than web, mail, music, divx...

ok, I admit, I also run macromedia apps in wine, and program php, lol. But what I really need is a stable, simple, easily updatable and upgradable distribution with KDE.

Kubuntu is good, but after the problems I got for update breezy into dapper, I don't know if I'll continue using it... apt-get is good, but in my case, it didn't solve my problem, so I have to reinstal kubuntu with the CD, or install other distro...

Just to tell the problem: If I apt-get install kde, it asks for every kde section (kdemultimedia, kdeadmin, etc etc...). If I try to install each one, it asks for libs and stuff like that... the REAL problem is that if I install kdelibs4c2, it removes automatically kde-core, kdebase, and if I install kdebase, bye bye kdelibs... I'm in a strange situation. So, I prefer to reinstall everything, maintaining /home (hoping the new distro - suse 10.1 or kubuntu dapper 6.06 RC, still deciding - will recognize it and work with it).

i don't know why, but Mephis doesn't inspire me quality... lol

I know that Suse isn't using any specific Desktop right now, but they have been using kde for years, and I've tried it on another PC, and suse kde seams a lot more complete than kubuntu kde.

Another thing. Would you install a 64-bit distro? i heard it has some problems in multimedia, like wmv...

What do you have to say about this. Discussing this may help me and users in same situation :)

[ComplexNumber]

Would you install a 64-bit distro?
no. even if i had a 64 bit PC, i would still use the old 32 bit because everyone reports that the 32 version is faster.

[RAV TUX]

SUSE SUCKS...well atleast the install couldn't get it to load and that sucks.

couldn't tell you anymore since I couldn't get it to load on my Intel EM64T box






http://elevagemo.free.fr/emoticones/animaux/animo21.gif

[drizek]

try with acpi_off

[ihavenoname]

Suse is one of the most polished distros Ive ever used. Yast (the Suse config manager) is IMO much better then Window's Control Panel or any other config tool ive used except maybe for Drake conf. The problem with Yast is its quiet bulky. Also what comes on the dvd is essentially what u get until a new release come out, ofcourse there are 3rd party repos, but U have to go get them urself, 10 IMO is slightly better then 10.1 for my comp. because it auto detected everything. Also in 10.1 they are using .exe files or something that many users feels abandons the spirit of Linux and FOSS. From my experience, although Suse is a very polished distro you would be better off with Fedora, just as long as u keep Fedora up to date. Fedora is faster, more bleeding edge, and more up to date then SUSE. Also you might want to try PClinuxOS, a very good distro Texstar is doing a fantastic job there. It is also very KDE centric, which is why I dont use it because i use gnome, and PclinuxOs is still on Gnome 2.10. If you have anymore questions about any other distro feel free to ask, its good to know that I can put my 6 month of distro hoping (and over 50cds worth of distros) to good use. Btw after all that Im starting to settel with Ubuntu, even thou it felt strange to me at first its now starting to fit alot better. Hats of the Ubuntu Devs. (yes that is a slight (and subtle) stab at Red Hat who I am upset with for letting Fedora be released with a crippled kernel.

[Kilz]

I started using Linux with SuSE 10.0. But I have recently switched to Ubuntu as my main distro. I have a 64 bit amd system and tried Linux because I didn't like the 32 bit windows that came with the pc.
Things I liked about Suse
1. Great 32 bit compatibility for a 64 bit system. You can install almost any 32 bit version of an application with yast. Dependencies for 32 bit packages automatically resolve for the most part.
2. Yast is a great system setup tool and package installer.
3. Ability to install multiple desktops like kde and gnome on the same machine with yast.
4. lots of applications pre installed.
5. Xgl setup in 10.1 is easy.

Things I didn't like about SuSE
1. Version 10.1;
a.It has the buggiest package system on the planet.
b. The updater is broken.
c. The new CD auto loader broke wine and cedega ( loads Cd's to /media/TheCD'sName and its different for each cd.)
d. Its slow to load and start programs.
2. No feeling of community.
3. Bugs are ignored if they are about games or emulators.
4. RTFM, Google it, and ignore people with problems.

All in all I loved SuSE 10.0. I stopped using 10.1 and started looking for another distro. Since I like gnome I tried Ubuntu first. While there were a few things different and 64 bit support wasn't the greatest. I have quickly fallen in love with the community and 64 bit Dapper.
My advice to people who want to try SuSE? Don't delete your Ubuntu partition. You may be back faster than you thought.

[ronlybonly]

in all honestly, suse is way better than ubuntu.

To each his own. Personally I prefer Ubuntu over SuSE, but that's just my opinion and I know that many of you will disagree. Here's a list of pros/cons of each distro IMHO.

SuSE (10.0 Eval) - Pros
1.) Includes tons of software (including proprietary codecs), which is i huge plus for dial-up users who want to install semi-common apps without being online for days on end.
2.) Has a very polished desktop environment - especially for KDE (this isn't a big deal for me since I'm a GNOME guy myself).
3.) Targeted to the average home computer user.
4.) Graphical Installer.
5.) Great hardware support (at least for my box).

SuSE (10.0 Eval) - Cons
1.) Configuration utility, YAST, is very bulky and very slow.
2.) Long start-up time.
3.) Overall, slightly slower than Ubuntu.

Ubuntu (Dapper Flight 7) - Pros
1.) Free CDs via shipit.
2.) Polished GNOME desktop.
3.) Light weight - i.e. only installs what you NEED.
4.) Easy package installation and maintanance with apt-get.
5.) Easy to tweak.
6.) Great community.
7.) Great community.
8.) Great community.

Ubuntu (Dapper Flight 7) - Cons
1.) Lacks a unified configuration tool.
2.) Text-based instalerl (although the Espresso graphical install tool on the LiveCD looks promising)
3.) Still a little "geeky" feeling. Not a distro for someone with 0 GNU/Linux experience.

Hope this helps!

-Andy

[Moif_Murphy]

I'm what you might consider a part-time linux user. I'm desperatley trying to make the leap to a 100% Linux desktop but I'm currently having issues with World of Warcraft and my Audio apps such as Acid and Soundforge (to be fair I haven't tried Acid or Soundforge in a VMWare environment yet but plan to try with Drake).

I was eager to try out the XGL/Compiz desktop and had a chance to install the 10.1 SuSE retail DVD so I decided to go for it. I was pleasantly surprised at how easy it was to install. I've never had any issues with any SuSE installs in the past (since 9.0) and after reading horror stories about how 10.1 has destroyed some systems I was a little nervous!

Anyway, once I had installed and tidied up a few things (removed Zen Updater and installed Smart, disabled Beagle) XGL/Compiz was a piece of cake to install, as were the ATI drivers. I was spinning my desktop in under half an hour.

However, the thing that turned me to Ubuntu in the past and will keep me here is that SuSE is rammed to the nines with things I'll *never* use and Ubuntu has the things you *need* and an easy way to get the things you *want*.

As long as Drake has Gnome, XGL, Compiz, Firefox and is stable then I'm there. With Smart package manager too it's going to prove to be a mighty contender to SuSE 10.1.

All Ubuntu needs to do now is face the mighty Novell and convince my bosses that it can do whatever ever SuSE and NLD can do. We're Novell here at work and are migrating our Novell servers to OES.

I'd love the chance to install an Ubuntu server.

[HolyMurderer]

I'm a 99% Linux user. I used Linux in the last years, but never on a desktop, only on server and old machines, general for testing and learning. After I put Macromedia Studio 8, Photoshop CS2 (at least CS), and if possible my SQL Server and Visual Studio .NET 2005 running in Linux, even if in VMWare, you can bet I'll be 100%.
If I wanna play games, Playstation is for that, except in certain cases, like HL, The Longest Journey, and a few others. I rarely play games, but everyone enjoys a distraction once in a while.

I've installed Suse 10.1 on my main Desktop, but, in spite I liked very much the look and feel and the hardware detection, the package management and the updater really are bad. The support is not bad, but is not even close to this community. I know there are solutions, like install apt, like 'smart', but I'm still deciding...

grrrr... I just want a good and easy distro, for a desktop, which uses KDE. I know there aren't perfect distros, but I want as close as possible lol. For this PC, I just want a perfect windows replacer.

Someone talked about Fedora beeing better. Why do you think I should use Fedora?

Kilz mentioned he uses 64-bit ubuntu dapper. Do you think it's good? The speed, the multimedia support, the apps, etc... what's your opinion of 64-bit distro?

[ComplexNumber]

Why do you think I should use Fedora? -its more stable (IMO)
-nice default icons and nicer default theme (IMO)
-because it uses rpm which is a lot less hassle than deb's. ask me to list all the reasons if you like, but it should be obvious to anyone who has used both.
-better security when needed.
-larger number of packages as supplied for the distribution (ie 5 cd's worth of packages Vs ubuntu's 1 cd worth)
-more supported packages (fedora's 5000 Vs ubuntu's 3084)
-kde packages(if any are going to be used such as amorak etc) install in standard kde locations.....unlike ubuntu(with the kde core libs installed) that install in non-standard kde locations which many people find confusing.

actually, i'm trying to think of any advantages of ubuntu, but can't.

[Kilz]

Kilz mentioned he uses 64-bit ubuntu dapper. Do you think it's good? The speed, the multimedia support, the apps, etc... what's your opinion of 64-bit distro?

I'm 100% Linux now for 1 1/2 months. Sadly others in my houshold that use this computer are not. Installing VMWare is my next project.
I cant comment on any differences to other Unbuntu 64 bit versions because I went strait to Dapper. I refuse to use anything that doesn't have 64 bit capability. I paid extra for the amd 64 chip, and I want a 64 bit OS. That plus I'm into 3d modeling and there are speed improvements in the 64 bit POV renderer.
I'm using 64 bit Dapper, and it isn't as easy as SuSE to install 32 bit apps, but they can be forced in with "sudo dpkg --force-architecture -i" I have had to manually hunt down and install a few 32 bit lib's to lib32 but I have everything I need. 32 bit firefox, Cedega, and wine. So far media has played with normal things added.
Don't let people scare you away from 64 bit if you want to use it. It may be a little bit harder to set things up. But its a chance to learn something. With the community here I don't think anything is impossible.

[HolyMurderer]

ComplexNumber, so that means you use Fedora Core 5, right? Do you think it's really that good? Besides those factors you told me, which I don't think that make such a difference, what do you like most in Fedora, that Suse or Kubuntu don't have?
I'm going to install Suse right now, but first I'm deleting /home, because of the themes and stuff like that. I want to try default Suse.


Kilz, so even WMV9 and stuff like that, you could use it on 64-bit? Is that anything that you know it's really impossible, or just isn't that easy? Because if just isn't as easy as 32-bit, I'll try 64-bit (first Suse 10.1 64-bit, then I'll see if I'll stick to it or not).

[Lord Illidan]

Why delete /home?

Just configure SUSE to use a different partition for /home

I disliked Suse 10... Nice interface.. but when it came to package management, I actually had to use apt-get + synaptic!! So why switch to SUSE???

I am now using Windows and Ubuntu only... I might install Suse 10.1, but I am not sure.

I don't like Fedora... its package management software sucks, imho... Very slow.

[ComplexNumber]

Do you think it's really that good? Besides those factors you told me, which I don't think that make such a difference, what do you like most in Fedora, that Suse or Kubuntu don't have? its the whole package put together. its not any particular aspect of it. i suppose if i had to try to identify aspects of it, it would be: i prefer rpm by miles, i prefer the bluecurve default icons, i like the file structure (over that of (for example) suse), and it gives me a homely feeling when i use it that other distros haven't to the same extent.

[Lord Illidan]

its the whole package put together. its not any particular aspect of it. i suppose if i had to try to identify aspects of it, it would be: i prefer rpm by miles, i prefer the bluecurve default icons, i like the file structure (over that of (for example) suse), and it gives me a homely feeling when i use it that other distros haven't to the same extent.

You are like me in one point. Blue curve icons rock. However the new shiny theme they did really put me off.

I too get the homey feeling... perhaps because I used Fedora Core 1 first...my first distro!

[awakatanka]

its the whole package put together. its not any particular aspect of it. i suppose if i had to try to identify aspects of it, it would be: i prefer rpm by miles, i prefer the bluecurve default icons, i like the file structure (over that of (for example) suse), and it gives me a homely feeling when i use it that other distros haven't to the same extent.
Explain why rpm above deb, i read in some topics people come here because they like deb above rpm.

Plz explain i wanna know.

[Kilz]

Kilz, so even WMV9 and stuff like that, you could use it on 64-bit? Is that anything that you know it's really impossible, or just isn't that easy? Because if just isn't as easy as 32-bit, I'll try 64-bit (first Suse 10.1 64-bit, then I'll see if I'll stick to it or not).
No matter what you do there will always be wmv files that wont play on a Linux system. But for the most part yes SuSE played what would play. The reason is you could chose what version of the application in yast, either 32 bit or x86_64 in the version tab.
But, and here is the big but. If you cant get it to work, you are pretty much on your own. The community help is not the greatest. I wouldn't recommend SuSE to a newbie. Get ready to hear "google it" "RTFM" etc,etc.
Next, if all you want is eye candy get 10.1. But don't expect the updater to work or the package system to be 100%. Yast is just as likely to crash as it is to resolve dependencies. Don't plan on using any windows emulation at all, at least not being able to run things on a CDrom.
If on the other hand you can do without the Xgl eye candy and want things to actually work. Get 10.0

[Lord Illidan]

If it is XGL you want, Dapper has XGL too...
Plus you get the community...and me...the ruler! :mrgreen:

Try Suse...but keep the ubuntu cd handy!

[ComplexNumber]

Explain why rpm above deb, i read in some topics people come here because they like deb above rpm.

Plz explain i wanna know. -much easier to install local packages. when i had ubuntu, i looked through the man pages but couldn't find any way to install local debs. maybe there is a way, but i couldn't find it in the documentation. with rpm's, its just a case of double clicking on the rpm where it will then look through the required dependencies in the available channels and install the dependencies too.
-ability to have different versions of the same package on the system without messing things up
-better able to deal with checksums


there are others. but one thing is for certain - while rpm has advantages over deb, the same can't be said the other way around. maybe someone can point some out.

[aysiu]

-much easier to install local packages. when i had ubuntu, i looked through the man pages but couldn't find any way to install local debs. maybe there is a way, but i couldn't find it in the documentation. with rpm's, its just a case of double clicking on the rpm where it will then look through the required dependencies in the available channels and install the dependencies too. Hasn't that changed with gdebi in Dapper?

[HolyMurderer]

Windows Emulators in Suse is not a good choice? Why? I'm thinking of installing Suse 10.1 64-bit tonight (21.36h here), and I really need wine, VMWare, cedega... Can you explain this? And btw, if anyone knows, any problems related to Suse or Fedora or Kubuntu.... ;)

Suse also uses rpm. I guess the only problem with Suse is the package management, but with apt and synaptic, or even smart (I heard this name somewhere, but I haven't tried searching for it).

[Lord Illidan]

I also dislike Suse and multimedia.

In Ubuntu, and most other distros, applications don't ship without some codecs, like mp3, for example. That is fine with me. I just download the codecs and I'm done.

However, in Suse, the app itself is crippled, so I have to download the app itself, and the codecs too, a frickin' waste of time, if you ask me. And it's not like Novell can't back itself up legally...

True, there is helix, but i don't like the way it sounds compared to gstreamer and xine.

[ComplexNumber]

Hasn't that changed with gdebi in Dapper? thats an add on package. i referring to out of the box functionality.



I also dislike Suse and multimedia. traditionally, it seems, the words "suse", "good", and "multimedia" don't tend to be uttered in the same sentence.



or even smart (I heard this name somewhere, but I haven't tried searching for it). smart is very good. its written in python, but it crashes and gives a traceback if you load it up without it being able to find the channels. for example, one of the channels is my fedora CD. if i load up Smart before the CD is mounted, it will give a traceback and then exit. i did exactly the same in suse too, so it seems like a bug which stil hasn't been fixed int he last 6 months or so.

[aysiu]

thats an add on package. i referring to out of the box functionality. Where do you get your information? It's out-of-the-box in Dapper. Take a look:
http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/base/ubuntu-desktop

[Lord Illidan]

I am getting to dislike python more and more. People are writing more and more crucial programs with python. However, it somehow reduces my system to a crawl, not to mention, load up a mega python binary.

I wish we could revert to the good old c++ and c days. Sure they were harder, but programs were faster, then.

I dislike having to wait a long time for a program to start, and then finding it become unresponsive if I'm doing something else.

[hizaguchi]

I gave 10.0 a go on my laptop and desktop a while back. I wasn't impressed. There's nothing really wrong with it, but I really didn't like certain aspects. A minor annoyance was that all of the things most people consider "polish" I just think of as unnecessary items I'll have to disable or remove from the menu. The big deal though, is that their repositories seemed extremely confusing to me compared to Debian/Ubuntu, Arch, and FreeBSD. If everything you need came on the CDs, you're all set. But if you need to download something extra, you have to find the right repository from a list about 2 pages long.. and Yast is TERRIBLE for adding repositories. This is just a result of the focus on putting a bunch of free software on the CDs instead of just putting the bare minimum there and letting you download the rest later. I think the CD approach is a step backward from the download as you need it approach, because it makes later expansion of the software collection less natural and is contrary to what I think is the pinacle of computing excellence: apt-get dist-upgrade (or better: pacman -Syu).

[Kilz]

Windows Emulators in Suse is not a good choice? Why? I'm thinking of installing Suse 10.1 64-bit tonight (21.36h here), and I really need wine, VMWare, cedega... Can you explain this? And btw, if anyone knows, any problems related to Suse or Fedora or Kubuntu.... ;)

Suse also uses rpm. I guess the only problem with Suse is the package management, but with apt and synaptic, or even smart (I heard this name somewhere, but I haven't tried searching for it).

Cedega and wine are broken in suse 10.1 for any program on a cdrom. SuSE 10.1 introduced a new auto loader for cdroms It loads cdroms to /media/CD'sName and its diffrent for each cd. Cedega was a must have application for me and one of the reasons I no longer use SuSE.

[HolyMurderer]

So now you only use ubuntu dapper 64-bit, right? Cedega, wine and that stuff is very important for me to run... Maybe I should try kubuntu dapper 64-bit...

[Kilz]

So now you only use ubuntu dapper 64-bit, right? Cedega, wine and that stuff is very important for me to run... Maybe I should try kubuntu dapper 64-bit...

Yes , I only run 64 bit Dapper now. I'm happy with it and the speed is a lot better. I do have a SuSE partition, but its going to get wiped soon. I do have wine installed and Cedega. I forced them and manual added a few libs.

[ComplexNumber]

Where do you get your information? It's out-of-the-box in Dapper. Take a look:
http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/base/ubuntu-desktop its still an add-on package, which means its not out of the box. thats what i meant in this context by "out of the box". sorry for the confusion

[aysiu]

its still an add-on package, which means its not out of the box. thats what i meant in this context by "out of the box". sorry for the confusion No, what I'm trying to tell you is that it is out of the box. I linked to the ubuntu-desktop metapackage, which is the default set of packages out of the box that you get when you install Ubuntu.

gdebi is one of those default packages. You do not need to apt-get install it--it's just there.

What else can you mean by "add-on"? I'm confused.

[ComplexNumber]

No, what I'm trying to tell you is that it is out of the box. I linked to the ubuntu-desktop metapackage, which is the default set of packages out of the box that you get when you install Ubuntu.

gdebi is one of those default packages. You do not need to apt-get install it--it's just there.

What else can you mean by "add-on"? I'm confused.with rpm, its not an add-on package, but seems to be built into rpm itself. or at least, i have never been able to identify any seperate package because its always been there in every rpm distro no matter how minimal. to replicate that, an add-on package is required for deb, it doesn't matter if it comes on the default install, the multiverse, the unverse, or wherever. its still an add-on package.

[aysiu]

it doesn't matter if it comes on the default install, the multiverse, the unverse, or wherever. its still an add-on package. How so?

It matters a lot to the end user. To an end user, if it's in the default install, it's "out of the box." If you have to enable extra repositories and then apt-get it, it's an add-on.

Do you mean that it's not part of Gnome?

[ComplexNumber]

How so?

It matters a lot to the end user. To an end user, if it's in the default install, it's "out of the box." If you have to enable extra repositories and then apt-get it, it's an add-on.

Do you mean that it's not part of Gnome? maybe i should be more consistant with my defintitions :p. out of the box usually means as you describe. but in this context, the phrase "out of the box" wasn't accurate. but the nearest match to what i meant. i'll try and explain what i mean better: the current and previous versions of gimp don't have a a plugin called SIOX(or somethign like that) as part of gimp. to give it that functionality, one has to install the plugin seperately. in gimp 2.10, SIOX will come as part of gimp so there will be no need to isntall the plugin. so i can say in this context, gimp 2.10 has SIOX out of the box, but prior versions don't. now do you understand?

btw its nothing to do with gnome.

[Lord Illidan]

Aysiu, I think he means that rpm is included as default with every rpm based distro, no?

But, complex number (just starting them at school, lol), do you mean, rpm as the program, or the GUI from where you just double click the .rpm?

Because from the console, isn't dpkg included in all debian based distros?

[ComplexNumber]

Aysiu, I think he means that rpm is included as default with every rpm based distro, no?

But, complex number (just starting them at school, lol), do you mean, rpm as the program, or the GUI from where you just double click the .rpm?

Because from the console, isn't dpkg included in all debian based distros?
just starting complex numbers? oh, lucky you...not ;)

i mean rpm as a program. the GUI is agnostic to what sort of package management system it deals with AFAIK.

[Lord Illidan]

just starting complex numbers? oh, lucky you...not ;)

i mean rpm as a program. the GUI is agnostic to what sort of package management system it deals with AFAIK.

The terminal program...rpm..
Isn't it identical to dpkg and apt-get... What's the difference? They do the same thing, as far as I know...

[puccaso]

personally opensuse is tripe.
its over slow-
yast2 sucks..

the only thing i like
is that xgl sets up perfectly.


how do we make the suse xgl settings the default
ubuntu settings?

[HolyMurderer]

Daaaaaaaaammmmmmmmnnnnnnnnnn... I tried Suse 10.1 (in case, x86-64). You know what? Just to install a simple amsn, I had to add two repositories, and those are sloooooooowwwwwwwwww to add. At least 5 minutes just to save them. After thatm it still shows dependency errors.
For alternative, I tried to install apt. Same stuff.... problems after problems. Suse has a very bad installer support. I could do it manually, but install every dependency and rpm manually, no thanks... I guess I'll try or fedora or kubuntu 6.06 x86-64.

Suse's packagement problem is so big, that the rest is not good enough to compensate lol

Trying fedora or kubuntu... hmmm... the dilema...

[tseliot]

Daaaaaaaaammmmmmmmnnnnnnnnnn... I tried Suse 10.1 (in case, x86-64). You know what? Just to install a simple amsn, I had to add two repositories, and those are sloooooooowwwwwwwwww to add. At least 5 minutes just to save them.
True... :(

[Kilz]

Daaaaaaaaammmmmmmmnnnnnnnnnn... I tried Suse 10.1 (in case, x86-64). You know what? Just to install a simple amsn, I had to add two repositories, and those are sloooooooowwwwwwwwww to add. At least 5 minutes just to save them. After thatm it still shows dependency errors.
For alternative, I tried to install apt. Same stuff.... problems after problems. Suse has a very bad installer support. I could do it manually, but install every dependency and rpm manually, no thanks... I guess I'll try or fedora or kubuntu 6.06 x86-64.

Suse's packagement problem is so big, that the rest is not good enough to compensate lol

Trying fedora or kubuntu... hmmm... the dilema...

At least you were warned :D. The package management is better than when I tried Beta 9, and release candidates 1-3. But it isn't good enough for most people.
SuSE has some serious work ahead, I think they will be able to fix the package manager in a release or 2. Its kind of sad for me , because I did like suse in a lot of ways.
But sadly its going to turn some newbies off of Linux. SuSE is a popular distro. Someone choosing it to try first because of the hyped XGL might have the "its to hard" or "its to buggy" FUD reinforced because of the package management problems.
Someone said that there are more rpm's than there are deb's. I don't know, maybe its true. But I haven't had a problem finding the stuff I use, and if it isn't available there is always make. Id like to see if they are counting all the packages from past versions that duplicate themselves each version.

[DJiNN]

I'm what you might consider a part-time linux user. I'm desperatley trying to make the leap to a 100% Linux desktop but I'm currently having issues with World of Warcraft and my Audio apps such as Acid and Soundforge (to be fair I haven't tried Acid or Soundforge in a VMWare environment yet but plan to try with Drake).

Great to hear that you are getting into Linux & Ubuntu etc. I've been using Ubuntu Full time since Xmas just gone, and it's really Great! Dapper is even better than Breezy was, and Breezy was very good indeed! :)

Anyway, just wanted to mention about the "Acid & Soundforge" thing that you were talking about. Of course your Mileage may vary, but being a full time working musician that uses both of those programs (& others) on a regular basis, my advice to you would be to forget using a VMWare setup, and just stick to XP for making music etc, even if it means using a seperate PC for your musical ventures.

I'm not saying that you can't do the same or similar in Linux, because you can have a reasonably good "Musical Setup" in Linux, but it's hard work & nowhere near as good (Yet) as what you can achieve using Acid & Soundforge etc in XP.
By all means give it a go..... it's only my opinion & you could have excellent results, but somehow i doubt it. If you do, please post your findings here because i'm sure that many others would find it interesting.

Thanks for your time & good luck with your Linux/Ubuntu exploits.

DJiNN

[drizek]

@complex number

dpkg -i <package>

[ComplexNumber]

@complex number

dpkg -i <package> tried that. it didn't work. i tried everything - nothing worked. the only thing i can think of was the package depended upon something else but didn't know how to deal with it. its easy to see that debian systems certainly weren't intended for files to be installed from local sources. debian systems overreliance on apt-get is not a good thing.

[drizek]

dpkg -i balblablab

you get a bunhc of dependency issues

then do

apt-get -f install

and it will download the depends.

not too great, but it works. Im installing a bunch of packages on an internetless laptop right now and its working pretty decenetly. cant wait to get the network card though ;) even suse/fedora cant download depends for a local package without an internet connection, and browsing through the repos by hand and transfering files over is a pain in the ***.

[ComplexNumber]

yes, but it seems to have great dificulty in dealing with a situation when its local, such as resolving dependencies even when the dependencies exist in the same directory.

[HolyMurderer]

I've installed Kubuntu Dapper 6.06 64-bit today.

Without any problem I installed nvidia drivers, changed resolution into 1280x1024, I changed repositories into easyubuntu.info ones, made full upgrade, latest amarok, latest almost everything, no problem :)

Next I'll install multimedia codecs, but now I'm going to the beach. 35º C it's not for staying at home lol

I'll give my opinion after install everything.

[HolyMurderer]

Hi there! The beach was great ;) i only want to say that the first thing I installed now was aMSN, and it was in the repositories, and one thing I have to say: Finally it supports the € (euro) symbol !!!! I was trying it for weeks :D

Now I'll install multimedia codecs and stuff like that.

For now, 64-bit kubuntu dapper is suiting my needs perfectly.

By the way, does anybody knows where I can download Suse 10.1 KDE theme and X11 Mouse Icon Theme? The mouse theme is what I really want, because I loved it, and kubuntu mouse theme is really ugly...

[HolyMurderer]

First problem... Flash Player on firefox. Any hint?

i have no flashplugin-nonfree (or something like it) available :(


Don't worry. I solved it, without changing any 64-bit app into 32-bit. I used Gnash :) The best and easiest method: http://raof.dyndns.org/falcon/dists/dapper/flash/

[Kilz]

Flash is easy, java wont be. I have had to install a few 32 bit apps like firefox. There is a good tutorial here (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=112418).
I have also forced a few 32 bit packages into dapper without to many problems. I then start the application in the terminal and look to see if it cant find any libs. I then go here (http://packages.ubuntu.com/) , search, download, open, and manually copy in any required lib's into /usr/lib32.
Someone is bound to tell you to set up a chroot, its the official way. But I had nothing but headache doing it that way.

[HolyMurderer]

has anyone tried vlc? i have 0.8.4 that's in the repos, and it's strange... the keyboard shortcuts only work if i press anywhere on the time bar... I use very much of shortcuts...

Another thing. Only in VNC I can view divx. Kaffeine doesn't recognize divx codecs :( I installed like in here (http://easylinux.info/wiki/Ubuntu_dapper#How_to_install_Multimedia_Codecs)

[ihavenoname]

Kilz, I thought that Sun's Java was now in the repositories? Does it not work?
HolyMurderer, have you tried mplayer? I have found it to be one of the best movie and audo players on linux.

Hmm, all this Open Suse stuff has me wanting to give it another try.

[HolyMurderer]

ihavenoname, yes I have, but no media player beats VLC, in my opinion. MPlayer is good, but I dislike it.

I have to be honest. I think Linux 64-bit has too many flaws to be used in a desktop computer, replacing windows. 32-bit breezy suited me well, 64-bit had the same situations. I solved many of them, but some things I think are not ready yet, so I'll install 32-bit kubuntu dapper, in a few minutes.

I'll only make a backup of the stuff I use. One question, Kubuntu has any good backup app?

[ihavenoname]

Hmm, I have always heard the 64bit Ubuntu is very fast...
Also to be honest, I have heard of many problems with 64bit windows.

[HolyMurderer]

yes, 64-bit windows is the same thing. Linux has some advantages over windows in that field, except that many companies don't care for linux 64-bit versions, and in windows the companies are taking care of the problems... but I've got to admit, 64-bit of windows is not good also.

[Kilz]

Kilz, I thought that Sun's Java was now in the repositories? Does it not work?
HolyMurderer, have you tried mplayer? I have found it to be one of the best movie and audo players on linux.

Hmm, all this Open Suse stuff has me wanting to give it another try.

I have gotten the 32 bit wine working on 64 bit Ubuntu without a chroot.
Do yourself a big favor, keep your Ubuntu partition if you try suse. Last time I checked there were still big problems with 10.1.

[drizek]

ihavenoname, yes I have, but no media player beats VLC, in my opinion. MPlayer is good, but I dislike it.

I have to be honest. I think Linux 64-bit has too many flaws to be used in a desktop computer, replacing windows. 32-bit breezy suited me well, 64-bit had the same situations. I solved many of them, but some things I think are not ready yet, so I'll install 32-bit kubuntu dapper, in a few minutes.

I'll only make a backup of the stuff I use. One question, Kubuntu has any good backup app?


yes, actually. kubuntu has a built in backup app called Keep. Ive only played around with it for a little bit, but it seems to be pretty cool.

BTW, if i were you id wait a couple days and just download dapper final. its coming out on wednesday.

[ihavenoname]

I have gotten the 32 bit wine working on 64 bit Ubuntu without a chroot.
Do yourself a big favor, keep your Ubuntu partition if you try suse. Last time I checked there were still big problems with 10.1.
Yea, I thought about it and I dont think I am anymore. The SuSE devs do a great job and usually have a polished system, but users must use 3rd party repos for the most part. Add to that a messed up package management system that exsists in 10.1 and a lack of gnome 2.14 and what you have is a very good reason to stick to (IMHO the best two distros out there) Fedora and Ubuntu. (Ubuntu edges this out, its easier sometimes and it also has more packages).

[146lily]

I'm here looking for Kubuntu 6.06, at the moment I am using Suse 10.1. The package management in 10.1 is shot to hell, however Guru supplied a version of Smart which comes complete with repositories. I have not set up wine. I think 10.1 is the best operating system I have ever used (thanks to Smart). The game is on tonight will Kubuntu 6.06 be better than Suse 10.1? :-D

[HolyMurderer]

I'm looking forward into that war... I guess I'll try Suse 10.1 one last time, just to check smart and to see if it's really that good as they claim.

Suse has another thing I like in Kubuntu. When I insert a USB device, it doesn't show an icon of it on Desktop... I know there are ways of doing it, but I don't know how. lol

146lily, which suse 10.1 do you use? 32-bit pr 64-bit?

[146lily]

32bit, It dose not matter which is the best......Linux keeps improving at a rapid rate!

[emerbomb]

Is Open Suse a good gaming os cause i would like to play n64 games i tried it on ubuntu 8.04 it did not work i even tried installing the 3d accelerator driver wich i did and i could not log on any more the os would load up but the GDM screen would not show up it would just stay black

responses are appriciated

[Uchiha_madara]

With all My Love for OpenSUSE

, .... But Ubuntu is Friendly User More Than It

[cardinals_fan]

Necromancing

[some-guy]

OpenSUSE 11 is worth trying, here's my reasoning:

It now has official forums that are very active (not as active as ubuntu's though, but still active)
libzypp has been sped up to an extreme extent, I honestly have to say this, it can kill apt
Since yast uses libzypp, it is also super-speed
Very polished in gnome, kde3 and kde4
Longer support that ubuntu (for non LTS releases, each suse release is supported for 2 years, SLE is supported for much longer)
The Build Service is awesome, just search a package, and 1-click to install
Packman repository contains many packages
RPMs have been switched to LZMA compression, which is faster and make smaller RPMs that bzip2

[RS3York]

I use openSUSE 11.0 as my main distro and Ubuntu Studio 8.04 as my secondary, but I think some of the stuff that some-guy posted needs extra context.

1. The new openSUSE forums

The new official suse forums are "active". Still, comparing the level of activity there to here as simply "not as active"...while true, it's also considerable understatement.

The new Suse forums, as of this posting, have ~2200 members. The Ubuntu forums has ~71,000 active members and +600k total. It's true that the old closed forums will help to migrate users over to the new forums and boost the numbers...but still it's like saying Buffalo, NY is simply "not as populated" as New York City, NY: Technically true, but a big understatement.


2. Zypper vs Apt
In some places libzypp is now faster than apt, but "it can kill apt"? Really? Refreshing repos is faster if the repos haven't changed since the last refresh. But the only place I really feel the difference is through the delta patch system for official updates (and even that was included in the slower package management of openSUSE 10.3).

The gap in package management speed between zypper in oS11 and apt is much smaller than the gap between apt and zypper in oS10.3 (let's not even talk about package management in 10.2 or 10.1).


3. openSUSE Build Service (OBS) + Packman Repository vs. Ubuntu Repositories

The fact that on oS we have to add Packman + some OBS repos to close the software gap with *Buntu's 4 default repos is telling enough.

OBS is a great system and imo the best thing out of Novell lately (and they do *a lot* of good work - MS pact flak or no). And the cool thing about it is the latest software is often built on all supported openSUSE versions, so you don't have to upgrade to a new Suse to get updated packages. Although to be fair, the OBS can build packages for a variety of distros including Ubuntu. Still, I'd be surprised if some others don't adopt the technology eventually.

Despite these things that I feel needed correction, at this point I prefer openSUSE over *Buntu for the bulk of my computing. It has its issues like every distro, but for the most part it works for me.

[some-guy]

2. Zypper vs Apt
In some places libzypp is now faster than apt, but "it can kill apt"? Really? Refreshing repos is faster if the repos haven't changed since the last refresh. But the only place I really feel the difference is through the delta patch system for official updates (and even that was included in the slower package management of openSUSE 10.3).

The gap in package management speed between zypper in oS11 and apt is much smaller than the gap between apt and zypper in oS10.3 (let's not even talk about package management in 10.2 or 10.1).

I find that apt's
(Reading Database)
[give a solution]
[download]
(Reading Database)
Unpacking package1
Unpacking package2
(Reading Database)
Setting up package1
Setting up package2
running ldconfig deferring processes
is slower than

Reading RPM Database...
[Solution]
Downloading package1
Installing package1
Downloading package2
Installing package2
Where it only reads the database once

I shouldn't have said it can kill apt, but this is how I see things
Zypper > APT
YaST < Synaptic
PackageKit with Zypp backend > PackageKit with APT backend

However, Zypper seems to be smarter than both YaST and PackageKit even though they all use libzypp...

And I find Synaptic to be smarter than APT in most cases.

Strange isn't it?

[agray]

As far as distro's go, opensuse11 is really nice. I think ubuntu is probably a bit easier to use as far as a desktop goes, but opensuse has great support for both kde and gnome, but yeah, different stokes for different folks.

[RS3York]

I find that apt's
{apt install routine - snipped for size}

is slower than
{libzypp install routine - snipped for size}

Where it only reads the database once

I shouldn't have said it can kill apt, but this is how I see things
Zypper > APT
YaST < Synaptic
PackageKit with Zypp backend > PackageKit with APT backend

However, Zypper seems to be smarter than both YaST and PackageKit even though they all use libzypp...

And I find Synaptic to be smarter than APT in most cases.


Yes, I agree Zypper is more efficient. It will read the database once, and it also automatically checks that you have the most up-to-date repo data.

So where in Apt you must run


apt-get update
apt-get upgrade
OR
apt-get update && apt-get upgrade

With Zypper you can run just


zypper up -t package

But I think apt only reads the database twice. Once in the beginning and again after the downloads are finished, I could be mistaken.

I don't find zypper to be smarter than YaST, nor Synaptic smarter than apt. But YaST does slow the process down a bit since it will run the SUSEconfig routine afterwards. Haven't used PackageKit, so I can't comment on it much, but it makes sense that it would be as fast as the backend it utilizes. In any event, people shouldn't shy away from openSUSE because of it's package management anymore.

But to the thread question itself: How good is openSUSE? Very Good!!

[mikjp]

OpenSUSE's package management got a lot faster in 11.0. In addition, KDE4 is almost usable in openSUSE, in other words, it is a lot better than any other version of KDE4 I've tried during the last months.

Greetings,

mikko

[some-guy]

OpenSUSE's package management got a lot faster in 11.0. In addition, KDE4 is almost usable in openSUSE, in other words, it is a lot better than any other version of KDE4 I've tried during the last months.

Greetings,

mikko
It's a hybrid, many enhancements and fixes from 4.1 were backported ;)