Russia to develop Linux-based "rival" to Windows

[Sporkman]

Russia to create 'Windows rival'

MOSCOW (AFP) – The Russian state plans to revamp its computer services with a Windows rival to reduce its dependence on US giant Microsoft and better monitor computer security, a lawmaker said Wednesday.

Moscow will earmark 150 million rubles (3.5 million euros, 4.9 million dollars) to develop a national software system based on the Linux operating system, Russian deputy Ilia Ponomarev told AFP, confirming an earlier report in the Vedomosti daily...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101027/tc_afp/russiagovernmentinternet

[Red_Steve]

In Soviet Russia
Linux sudo apt-get upgrade you.

[fillintheblanks]

Why should the government have to do everything? Whatever happened to free enterprise?

[Simian Man]

Why should the government have to do everything? Whatever happened to free enterprise?

You're asking whatever happened to free enterprise in Russia? Seriously?

[NovaAesa]

Just look what happened with free enterprise in America (and other places such as Australia for that matter).

[samjh]

In Soviet Russia
Linux sudo apt-get upgrade you.

The Soviet Union went out of fashion two decades ago. ;)

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install Russian-Federation

or

yum update Russian-Federation

[Red_Steve]

Man you destroyed my beloved pun!

[Quadunit404]

As long as Yakov Smirnoff lives the Soviet Russia jokes won't die :wink:

[Dr. C]

It is actually a very serious national security issue for any sovereign country outside the United States, because of the DRM in Microsoft Windows.

[L4U]

Why doesn't Russia just pick one of the gazillion distros already out there and just train a team to admin it?

[GabrielYYZ]

offtopic: i always laugh at russian reversals, it's almost like a reflex now. :lolflag:

ontopic: i'm with them as far as reducing dependency on microsoft but, like L4U stated, why not pick an already existing distro? IMHO ubuntu is a worthy microsoft rival and i'm sure other distros are also pretty decent.

[arnavk007]

i think they want to have better russian language support

[cascade9]

Man you destroyed my beloved pun!

I'm going to just make it worse by saying it wasnt a pun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pun


Why should the government have to do everything? Whatever happened to free enterprise?

Lots of great examples, but I'll just use one acronym- ARPANET. You think there would be an internet without the US governement 'doing stuff"?


Why doesn't Russia just pick one of the gazillion distros already out there and just train a team to admin it?

Thats funny on a ubuntu forum. Why have ubuntu, there was already a gazillinodistros out there, couldnt shuttleworth have just used one of them? Why the russians are making this is the same as why shuttleworth made ubuntu, and the chinese government made Red Flag. Control over the project.

[Glenn nl]

Thats funny on a ubuntu forum. Why have ubuntu, there was already a gazillinodistros out there, couldnt shuttleworth have just used one of them?

He did, he used Debian. <3

[NightwishFan]

My good friend would have this thread down in minutes, he is the master of the Russian reversal. (I may secretly be glad he does not post on this site. :D)

[mikewhatever]

Why doesn't Russia just pick one of the gazillion distros already out there and just train a team to admin it?

Simple. Distros die. Also, becoming dependent on a single distro is obviously not the goal here.

PS: I wonder, why did Yahoo decided to report 3 month old news.
http://vz.ru/economy/2010/7/22/420045.html
Oddly enough, Yahoo didn't site a source.

[Random_Dude]

This is supposed to be good for Linux, right?
Russia is a huge country, if all those people start using Linux, software developers should get more interested in writing programs for Linux.

Cheers :cool:

[Paul820]

All governments should do it. Just think of the amount of money they would save turning all the schools, hospitals, government offices etc to a Linux based system instead of relying on Microsoft and updating their licenses costing vast amounts of money.

All they have to do is stop wasting money like they do and start using it to make the changes, money will be saved and they wouldn't need Microsoft.

[cpmman]

My good friend would have this thread down in minutes, he is the master of the Russian reversal. (I may secretly be glad he does not post on this site. :D)

In Russia Linux-based rival develops YOU.

[GabrielYYZ]

Simple. Distros die. Also, becoming dependent on a single distro is obviously not the goal here.

PS: I wonder, why did Yahoo decided to report 3 month old news.
http://vz.ru/economy/2010/7/22/420045.html
Oddly enough, Yahoo didn't site a source.

see, that's a malapropism, not a pun :P the word he was going for was cite.

note: blame cascade9 for posting the wikipedia link :lolflag:

[ShakaDoodle]

I agree with Paul820. If the U.S. figures out the benefits of Linux they'd be able to pay off the Chinese debt with all the money they'd save.:)

[A_T]

Moscow will earmark 150 million rubles (3.5 million euros, 4.9 million dollars) to develop a national software system based on the Linux operating system

That's not going to go very far.

[tadcan]

That's not going to go very far.

That's what I thought as well. If its just for localization, then they probably are just building on a pre-made distro.

[Spice Weasel]

In Soviet Russia, Gentoo compiles YOU!

[nlsthzn]

I suspect the money earmarked for this will stretch much further in Russia then in the US.

[grahammechanical]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101027/tc_afp/russiagovernmentinternet


ALT Linux is a Russian Linux distribution. A Russian company has brought into Mandrivia. North Korea is developing it own Linux version. I think that the Russian government wants to avoid paying Microsoft $Billions for all the pirated copies being used on government computers. With Linux we do not have to be a pirate.

Regards.

[Sean Moran]

ALT Linux is a Russian Linux distribution. A Russian company has brought into Mandrivia. North Korea is developing it own Linux version. I think that the Russian government wants to avoid paying Microsoft $Billions for all the pirated copies being used on government computers. With Linux we do not have to be a pirate.

Regards.

Let's hope they hurry along then, because if they dillie-dally too long on the project, one ruble will likely be worth 30 US dollars, and a few cents here and there won't make all that much difference to the national budget.

Seriously, it is fantastic news to hear that Linux has achieved such fantastic heights in recent years.

[donkyhotay]

ALT Linux is a Russian Linux distribution. A Russian company has brought into Mandrivia. North Korea is developing it own Linux version. I think that the Russian government wants to avoid paying Microsoft $Billions for all the pirated copies being used on government computers. With Linux we do not have to be a pirate.

Regards.

Lots of governments are starting to do this, don't forget china and red flag linux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Flag_Linux). It's linux's best hope for the future. I figure eventually it'll become a government/world standard like the metric system, and like the metric system the USA won't convert for reasons even americans don't quite understand.

[cgroza]

Good for them, Wish Canada did this.

[ssulaco]

"The devil is in the details," said Ponomarev, a computer expert, adding those details would be hashed out during a December meeting headed by vice-prime minister Sergei Ivanov.

"We will become independent of Windows ... but it risks becoming an unthinking implantation of Linux," he added.
Doesnt sound like he is real impressed with Linux,...other than the fact its the lesser of 2 evils.

[fillintheblanks]

Good for them, Wish Canada did this.

Why?? So that the government could monitor your browsing habits or what you store on your computer?

[reyfer]

Ok...now....in July, Microsoft opened their source code to the russians.....and now they decide to go with Linux....I wonder what the FSB found on that MS source code :P:P:P

[HermanAB]

Why doesn't Russia just pick one of the gazillion distros already out there and just train a team to admin it?
They did exactly that and bought Mandriva Linux.

[Oxwivi]

OMG! Anti-American sentiments! It's a Cold War!

[Spice Weasel]

Why?? So that the government could monitor your browsing habits or what you store on your computer?

Yeah, I hate that pesky open source spyware!

[Random_Dude]

Why?? So that the government could monitor your browsing habits or what you store on your computer?

Is the Russian government forcing the citizens to use it on their personal computers?
The wall fell more than 20 years ago.

[CraigPaleo]

Lots of great examples, but I'll just use one acronym- ARPANET. You think there would be an internet without the US governement 'doing stuff"?


GPS is another example. The government needs to take up the slack by investing in technologies that private companies never would or could.

[mikewhatever]

Is the Russian government forcing the citizens to use it on their personal computers?


No, not really. The plan is that the government will stop providing Windows licenses and move all or at least some of its computing to Linux. For those who don't know, the project to move all Russian schools to ALT Linux has been under way since 2007. YahooNews will probably report it shortly.:P

[Random_Dude]

No, not really. The plan is that the government will stop providing Windows licenses and move all or at least some of its computing to Linux. For those who don't know, the project to move all Russian schools to ALT Linux has been under way since 2007. YahooNews will probably report it shortly.:P

It was a rhetorical question regarding the "OMG the government is the Big Brother" reaction. :)
No one is forcing anyone to use this upcoming Russian distro. So if they're developing it in order to save money good for them. ;)

Cheers :cool:

[MooPi]

I'm wondering if China's attempt (Red Flag) is doing any good. Have they gained ground on the Microsoft (pirated) juggernaut. Didn't Russia declare this years ago and it fizzled .

[Bapun007]

Wish indian government also . . . .

[gunashekar]

Why should the government have to do everything? Whatever happened to free enterprise?

Your Free enterprise system is not really free in my opinion. A more open enterprise model will replace this in time.
.
Good that the Russian Government is taking sensible steps

[macem29]

Russians will continue to use whatever OS they please,
and for many that is pirated windows, this has to be for government institutions only

[madhi19]

offtopic: i always laugh at russian reversals, it's almost like a reflex now. :lolflag:

ontopic: i'm with them as far as reducing dependency on microsoft but, like L4U stated, why not pick an already existing distro? IMHO ubuntu is a worthy microsoft rival and i'm sure other distros are also pretty decent.

I expect it probably what will happen somebody is going to take something like Debian or Ubuntu, put a custom theme on it maybe also polish the localization and that it. The new Russia Distro is born! Why re-invent the wheel after all. Who know maybe with that big fat budget they can contribute some codes upstsream!

[Khakilang]

Well nobody wants to put all their eggs in one basket. It is good they diversify and now finally the citizen of Russia get the freedom to choose.

[weasel fierce]

Why should the government have to do everything? Whatever happened to free enterprise?

Isn't free enterprise about picking whatever of the available options you want?

Seems the Russian government have weighed pros and cons and gone for the most fiscally viable option

[Oxwivi]

I'm wondering if China's attempt (Red Flag) is doing any good.I think no one would use it with, most possibly, built in censorship and reporting mechanism.

Speaking of Red Flag, Windows XP anyone?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/eb/Redflag-large.preview.jpg/360px-Redflag-large.preview.jpg

[3Miro]

Any government outside of US should never use MS products (on the government level). Those are matters of national security, which goes beyond a virus that steals someone's credit card number. On the same note, Ubuntu ships binaries, so there is still the possibility of introducing a malicious feature. On the level of the community, a person doing this will hardly gain anything, however, when we are talking about governments and the case of Russia, a nuclear superpower, the stakes a much higher. It makes perfect sense to have a government distro. Compile your own code, so that you know what is in there.

If China has put censorship software in Red Flag, then nobody should use it. However, there is also Pardus for Turkey and I am sure there are others.

Pirated versions of windows are doing MS a big favour, since very few people outside USA and EU can afford the price of a windows licence. This would have meant millions of extra Linux users, which would have then forced hardware manufacturers to produce decent drivers, if they want to sell hardware on that market.

[Oxwivi]

Yeah, Linux communities should fight against piracy as well with Linux on hand as alternatives, not genuine Windows.

[madhi19]

The security aspect is clear Microsoft is after all a US corporation some of their coders might well be working part time for the NSA. Since it closed source who knows what really in there? Hey they like to spread FUD well two can play that game! :twisted:

[Sean Moran]

The security aspect is clear Microsoft is after all a US corporation some of their coders might well be working part time for the NSA. Since it closed source who knows what really in there? Hey they like to spread FUD well two can play that game! :twisted:
Exactly!

I trust Linux because it is open-source and whatever security loopholes might arise will be seen by 1000 qualified geeks and fixed in a jiffy. I am not Russia though, and I'm not really worth hacking or cracking, but to see a national government finally understand that Linux is now simple enough for kindergarten kids to fingerpaint on, is a great achievement for Linus Torvalds, and here in this case, a great effort in education and promotion on behalf of Mr Shuttleworth as well, for I do believe that Ubuntu has played a large part in finally bringing Mr Torvalds' work from the server to the client.

Congratulations to everyone who has done something constructive for Linux to conquer the universe at last!

---o0o---

As somebody mentioned on the last page, India is on the move, and here in Thailand is on the move too, (although Thais are traditionally very conservative about anything changeful), and thanks to distributions like Ubuntu, it is becoming clear to the average intelligent person from anywhere on the globe, that anything to do with IT is firstly cheaper, but more importantly, more securable, and just as simple to operate as anything that ever released itself from Redmond, if you try Ubuntu. Try Linux. It comes with manual AND automatic transmission.

[Oxwivi]

Hold yer horses there. Just cause a government is using it, doesn't mean it'll be good for the general population. It depends on how the government is using it and also how it's being spread among the general population, y'know?

[Sean Moran]

Hold yer horses there. Just cause a government is using it, doesn't mean it'll be good for the general population. It depends on how the government is using it and also how it's being spread among the general population, y'know?
General populations will find there THEIR own way to learn, but government backing means public departments, which means many sectors, and hopefully including education - schools.

It's a great windfall for Russia and a testimony to the genius of Linux, (and UNIX) of which Ubuntu has been a major player IMHO. People can still hear the news through the Iron Curtain, although Pink Floyd have already told us that's part history.

(I also meant past history rather than part history, but I'll live with a typo like that)

[Oxwivi]

That could be a testimony, or it could be just that they don't want to use American products (for whatever reason) and/or because Linux is largely open-source.

The general population won't just accept it just because of the government. How the government popularizes the OS will really impact the people's opinion.

[Sean Moran]

That could be a testimony, or it could be just that they don't want to use American products (for whatever reason) and/or because Linux is largely open-source.

The general population won't just accept it just because of the government. How the government popularizes the OS will really impact the people's opinion.

1. USA products are like Australian products - my hometown. They buy our iron ore and our sheep still, but they can get wheat cheaper from Argentina, and beef too. We're just TOO EXPENSIVE for most of the world to be happy to pay for.

2, Yes, open-source means DIY security.

3. Word gets around. It starts with government employees who see a good thing at work, and take it home, and moves on to the teachers, and then to the schools, and then to the students, and it doesn't take Linus Torvalds to jet-hop around the planet like Bill Gates had a habit of doing. The code is free, my friend. They'll get it into their heads before long.

http://www.pasacafe.com/img/sml/chongao.gif

[Oxwivi]

I maybe making all the negative points, but you're too optimistic.

1. No comment.

2. They'd trust their own solution then American - and they'd know what's happening unlike in proprietary softwares.

3. Yes, that is if they get a good experience, provided that they can happily get used to the change. And then there's the matter of the government forcing it upon them. Nothing new is perceived positively when forced.

[t0p]

I trust Linux because it is open-source and whatever security loopholes might arise will be seen by 1000 qualified geeks and fixed in a jiffy.

Your security "loopholes" will only be seen by your 1000 qualified geeks if they're actually looking. What makes you think open source software is being constantly scrutinized for security problems? Vulns can be present for years before someone finally notices. And then we have to hope that someone with the skills to fix the problem can be bothered.

Don't get me wrong, I love Free software. But open source ain't some kind of self-healing witchcraft software.

[Zlatan]

"Moscow will earmark 150 million rubles (3.5 million euros, 4.9 million dollars) to develop a national software system based on the Linux operating system, Russian deputy Ilia Ponomarev told AFP, confirming an earlier report in the Vedomosti daily... "

Mr. Ponomarev is going to get 4mln bucks, project is going to die in some ministry and Russians will happily use Debian/Ubuntu/Fedora/anyotherOS as they did before

[Sean Moran]

Your security "loopholes" will only be seen by your 1000 qualified geeks if they're actually looking. What makes you think open source software is being constantly scrutinized for security problems? Vulns can be present for years before someone finally notices. And then we have to hope that someone with the skills to fix the problem can be bothered.

Don't get me wrong, I love Free software. But open source ain't some kind of self-healing witchcraft software.
Out of 6.6 billion people there's always someone with insomnioa when it counts. It's nopt about witchcraft but strength in numbers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cathedral_and_the_Bazaar

[3Miro]

I don't care if government distributions are good for the public or not. We can always make our own distribution. The issue with marketing, right now Linux marketing cannot possibly suck any more than this. If governments trust national security to the system, that will get common people to notice, it is good publicity and it gets the word that there is something else out there.

[jrusso2]

Exactly!

I trust Linux because it is open-source and whatever security loopholes might arise will be seen by 1000 qualified geeks and fixed in a jiffy. I am not Russia though, and I'm not really worth hacking or cracking, but to see a national government finally understand that Linux is now simple enough for kindergarten kids to fingerpaint on, is a great achievement for Linus Torvalds, and here in this case, a great effort in education and promotion on behalf of Mr Shuttleworth as well, for I do believe that Ubuntu has played a large part in finally bringing Mr Torvalds' work from the server to the client.

Congratulations to everyone who has done something constructive for Linux to conquer the universe at last!

---o0o---

As somebody mentioned on the last page, India is on the move, and here in Thailand is on the move too, (although Thais are traditionally very conservative about anything changeful), and thanks to distributions like Ubuntu, it is becoming clear to the average intelligent person from anywhere on the globe, that anything to do with IT is firstly cheaper, but more importantly, more securable, and just as simple to operate as anything that ever released itself from Redmond, if you try Ubuntu. Try Linux. It comes with manual AND automatic transmission.

Things are not fixed right away there have been some vulnerabilities that lasted for years without being found my your "thousands of coders"

[3Miro]

It is not so much a matter of number of people as it is a matter of general approach. First, it is harder to find things in windows since it is closed source. If a bad guy uses some sort of reverse engineering, then he can exploit the vulnerability, however, is good guy does the same, find the problem and reports it to MS, he can go to jail for meddling with the code. If someone find a problem in a legal way, then he has to wait for MS to deem it important enough to fix in a patch and in the mean time, the system is vulnerable. If a bunch of people get together like that, they can only make an anti-virus program.

On the other hand, with an open system, there are more people looking and it takes only one person to see the problem and fix it, usually the person who sees the problem is the one who fixes it, since nobody wants to have a vulnerable system. That is the reason Linux will never need an anti-virus program.

[beew]

The Russians may develop a "national brand" based on Linux, but it doesn't have to be remain open source, does it?

I am actually surprised if they don't do it. It is in the interest of not just Russia, but China, India and other developing countries to free themselves from MicroSDoft dependecy in a strategically important and economically vital area such as computing.

[MasterNetra]

The Russians may develop a "national brand" based on Linux, but it doesn't have to be remain open source, does it?

I am actually surprised if they don't do it. It is in the interest of not just Russia, but China, India and other developing countries to free themselves from MicroSDoft dependecy in a strategically important and economically vital area such as computing.

I dunno, but why should the government used versions remain open? Why should there enemies get to freely look for vulnerabilities in their OS? National Security risk anyone? Open Source great for the general public, but not so much for government and such. Government versions should be closed.

[kaldor]

Why Linux? Why not just "Pull an Apple" and use BSD?

[beew]

I dunno, but why should the government used versions remain open? Why should there enemies get to freely look for vulnerabilities in their OS? National Security risk anyone? Open Source great for the general public, but not so much for government and such. Government versions should be closed.

I don't know but isn't it true that openness is actually more secure and less susceptible to being compromised. It seems counter intuitive but from the little that I know it seems to be the case. You can ask the same question of why companies such as Google uses Linux.

[Oxwivi]

I don't care if government distributions are good for the public or not. We can always make our own distribution. The issue with marketing, right now Linux marketing cannot possibly suck any more than this. If governments trust national security to the system, that will get common people to notice, it is good publicity and it gets the word that there is something else out there.
You should care if the government's distribution are good for public if you want good Linux publicity. If, say Russia used it's Linux distro to restrict access to something, Linux would become a symbol of an oppression to those who are restricted by it. Linux isn't a tool, it's building block for creating tools, so what it's used to create is important to Linux's reputation.

[MasterNetra]

I don't know but isn't it true that openness is actually more secure and less susceptible to being compromised. It seems counter intuitive but from the little that I know it seems to be the case. You can ask the same question of why companies such as Google uses Linux.

As I understand it is what is suppose to make it more secure is the fact you have many people looking at the code many of which are supposedly good enough to report the vulnerabilities. However there are also going to be those looking at the code who will use any vulnerabilities they find to in it to there advantage. Providing the source code would make this easier sense the Black Hat coder/cracker/hacker/whatever doesn't need to go through any effort to get a hold of the actual OS and break into its code, he/she/Herm could simply go through the source code to look for vulnerabilities.

[Sporkman]

As I understand it is what is suppose to make it more secure is the fact you have many people looking at the code many of which are supposedly good enough to report the vulnerabilities. However there are also going to be those looking at the code who will use any vulnerabilities they find to in it to there advantage. Providing the source code would make this easier sense the Black Hat coder/cracker/hacker/whatever doesn't need to go through any effort to get a hold of the actual OS and break into its code, he/she/Herm could simply go through the source code to look for vulnerabilities.

A way to leverage openness for security is to offer bounties for any vulnerabilities found. The openness then allows the general public to find those vulnerabilities, report them, then you can fix them.

[3Miro]

You should care if the government's distribution are good for public if you want good Linux publicity. If, say Russia used it's Linux distro to restrict access to something, Linux would become a symbol of an oppression to those who are restricted by it. Linux isn't a tool, it's building block for creating tools, so what it's used to create is important to Linux's reputation.

If the Russian government tries to push on people a distro that restricts them, only then people can become resentful. If they simply use Linux for their government computers, then it will look good.

I am not worried about Russia trying to make a restricted distro. There is no point of trying since there is no way they could be successful, Europe east of EU (as well as some eastern parts of EU) runs on over 90% pirated software anyway, people will hack the software in no time. China may do something like that with Red Flag, but so long as it doesn't catch traction, it shouldn't have a bad impact.

[Oxwivi]

You maybe right... I suppose time will tell. If the Linux project does succeed and goes mainstream, I'm sure we'll hear more about em. :D

[A_T]

I suspect the money earmarked for this will stretch much further in Russia then in the US.

Not when everyone's taken their cut.