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Gremlinzzz
October 27th, 2010, 12:23 AM
Ever have one? I did for a short trip I was away from home 12 years old. ok in reform school.Any ways I was about to fall asleep and felt like I was floating to the ceiling.Then suddenly I was back in my body.strange feeling.
then how about when you feel like your going to fall out of bed but your bodys not moving.anybody have a OBE or know what it is?

NCLI
October 27th, 2010, 12:26 AM
Plenty, I understand that it's quite normal when you're about to fall asleep.

I've always thought of it as a "bug" that can occur in the brain as it goes into "sleep mode".

night_fox
October 27th, 2010, 12:42 AM
Last night I dreamed I was a MATLAB script.

NCLI
October 27th, 2010, 12:46 AM
Last night I dreamed I was a MATLAB script.
/thread

That is awesome :KS

Gremlinzzz
October 27th, 2010, 12:59 AM
was wondering were i heard this song before
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxTpvA-pUG0
it was in this movie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDy3gk40wvs&feature=related

night_fox
October 27th, 2010, 01:08 AM
I'm serious! I had to keep changing and testing this MATLAB script which took a while to run, so i'd start it and go on facebook. This morning, while trying to get up, I dreamed I was either this script, or I was running this script, so I'd wake up, decide to run the script, which would send me to sleep for a few minutes, then wake up, decide i'd coded something wrong or recieve an error message, then rerun, and repeat until I realised what was happening.

DoktorSeven
October 27th, 2010, 01:09 AM
I've had a couple of dreams that I was outside my body watching. I have no belief that it actually was (but won't argue against anyone that believes otherwise, since it's just my point of view about the whole thing). Always seems like to me that my dream mind is just trying to make sense of what's happening to my body and/or surroundings at times (once I was being carried out to the car by my parents when I was younger, for example).

It's a weird sensation, regardless.

NCLI
October 27th, 2010, 01:12 AM
I've had a couple of dreams that I was outside my body watching. I have no belief that it actually was (but won't argue against anyone that believes otherwise, since it's just my point of view about the whole thing). Always seems like to me that my dream mind is just trying to make sense of what's happening to my body and/or surroundings at times (once I was being carried out to the car by my parents when I was younger, for example).

It's a weird sensation, regardless.
If anyone does believe it actually is, I will be happy to argue instead of you :p

toupeiro
October 27th, 2010, 01:28 AM
As someone who lives with chronic hypnagogic/predormital sleep paralysis, I've experienced sensations which some would classify as an OBE many times. My awareness (or lack thereof) of the human spirit and/or soul, compiled with the huge gaps of knowledge in the science of sleep, will neither allow me to confirm, or deny, its potential.

fillintheblanks
October 27th, 2010, 01:39 AM
Used to try to induce it on myself before. Its scary as hell! You can feel a tingly sensation in your whole body. Then your heart would start to pound like you were about to have a heart attack. I could never get myself to finish it though, its quite hard to do because you need a really really quiet room to do it properly. There can't be any distractions if you really want to let yourself go.

toupeiro
October 27th, 2010, 01:41 AM
Used to try to induce it on myself before. Its scary as hell! You can feel a tingly sensation in your whole body. Then your heart would start to pound like you were about to have a heart attack. I could never get myself to finish it though, its quite hard to do because you need a really really quiet room to do it properly. There can't be any distractions you really need to let yourself go.

Welcome to 2-3 times a week (sometimes as infrequent as 1-3 months) of my life since I was age 5. :) That is one of the sensations of the sleep paralysis I have. I actually thought it was normal, and didn't think I had anything wrong until I was 18 years old and described it to a coworker and saw the look on his face.. I couldn't imagine wanting it, having lived with that sensation my whole life with no controlling it, not even with medication.

Old_Grey_Wolf
October 27th, 2010, 01:57 AM
Ever have one? I did for a short trip I was away from home 12 years old. ok in reform school.Any ways I was about to fall asleep and felt like I was floating to the ceiling.Then suddenly I was back in my body.strange feeling.
then how about when you feel like your going to fall out of bed but your bodys not moving.anybody have a OBE or know what it is?

I have had out-of-body experiences; however, I could not convince myself that any part of me actually left my body. It could be attributed to my ability to imagine or visualize a 3 dimensional space. I have been able to see my own body laying on a bed or sitting in a chair as if I were viewing it through someone else's eyes. I have been able to read book titles in book shelves in a room that I was not physically in. That could be nothing more that my ability to imagine or visualize 3 dimensional space.

I have had people sense that I was present in a room that I imagined or visualized myself as being in. Without using some scientific controls, I think they may be hoping for something to confirm their belief in out-of-body experiences.

handy
October 27th, 2010, 02:30 AM
I was ripped out through my stomach once (really quite a shock to the system).

Interesting experience, looking down on my room with my wife & my sleeping bodies in our beds.

I won't go into details of what I was then told or by who. It was certainly one of those experiences that I'll never forget.

NCLI
October 27th, 2010, 02:32 AM
I was ripped out through my stomach once (really quite a shock to the system).

Interesting experience, looking down on my room with my wife & my sleeping bodies in our beds.

I won't go into details of what I was then told or by who. It was certainly one of those experiences that I'll never forget.
Hallucinations are common when your body experiences extreme trauma.

handy
October 27th, 2010, 04:46 AM
Hallucinations are common when your body experiences extreme trauma.

You can think of "My" experience however you like. :)

I was the one who was there.

The trauma involved in my experience was the physical experience of leaving my body. My consciousness was certainly heightened due to that.

There are a great deal more details involved in this experience, none of which I'm going to discuss here.

On a broader note: It is worth considering that some people experience life in very different ways than others. Mental disorders not being a part of the equation at all.

undecim
October 27th, 2010, 04:49 AM
tried lucid dreaming last night, and and my hands started to feel like I was oscillating my wrists, and then I started to kind of feel like I had no more body attached to me, but my consciousness was still where it was (i.e. I didn't "float to the ceiling", yet), but then my can knocked something over that made it sound like someone was outside on the gravel where I park my car. That startled me and broke my OBE.

Gonna try again tonight, though :)

juancarlospaco
October 27th, 2010, 04:57 AM
Plenty, I understand that it's quite normal when you're about to fall asleep.

I've always thought of it as a "bug" that can occur in the brain as it goes into "sleep mode".

Yes, its a bug on the ears, where gravity sensors are.

Khakilang
October 27th, 2010, 05:00 AM
Firstly, never have any big mirror in front of where you sleep and if you wear glasses. Put it on the minute you wake up. Than you will have a clearer picture.

handy
October 27th, 2010, 05:01 AM
tried lucid dreaming last night, and and my hands started to feel like I was oscillating my wrists, and then I started to kind of feel like I had no more body attached to me, but my consciousness was still where it was (i.e. I didn't "float to the ceiling", yet), but then my can knocked something over that made it sound like someone was outside on the gravel where I park my car. That startled me and broke my OBE.

Gonna try again tonight, though :)

I do a lot of lucid dreaming, it is a completely different experience than an OBE. In my experience at least.

ki4jgt
October 27th, 2010, 07:59 AM
If anyone does believe it actually is, I will be happy to argue instead of you :p

I believe it.

the8thstar
October 27th, 2010, 08:11 AM
It's funny, I was actually reflecting on OBE a couple of days ago... and now this thread pops up! Interesting coincidence.

I never had an OBE. The closest things I could relate this to (according to the signs described by those who experienced OBE) are the dreams I had before I was cured off of sleep apnea. So nothing paranormal in my case, just a physical condition as far as I'm concerned.

toupeiro
October 27th, 2010, 08:43 AM
It amazes me how any of you can "try" lucid dreaming or to have an OBE, like it was a flavor of yogurt on a grocery shelf. You don't know how jealous I am of that kind of control, except I wish I had the inverse of it, and turn it all off. Once in a while may seem neat but a lifetime of uncontrollable, unpredictable episodes of this during REM, (which is the only time it happens to me) I wouldn't wish on anybody. Granted, it's the full onset of my sleeping disorder that usually makes it unpleasant, which is likely why I wish I could just be rid of it.

Interesting thread, to say the least.

handy
October 27th, 2010, 10:23 AM
@toupeiro: I've been lucid dreaming since long before I was a teenager (perhaps all of my life?). I like it, though I must admit, that I'm not doing it as much these days (perhaps a phase, perhaps age & hormone changes, I really don't know, nor does it bother me one way or the other).

When I am dreaming (with very few exceptions) I am aware that I am dreaming, & often do reruns of parts of my dreams & change the way it goes or just do it again for fun or for whatever other reason.

My OBE was a once only experience, it was an extremely complex session of dreaming that led up to it, & also an extremely powerful experience that came after the OBE. So really, from experience I know very little about the phenomena. What I do know, is that if you have had the experience, at least the way mine was, you certainly know that, that was exactly what you had.

As far as sleep pattern disturbance is concerned. I don't have your problem, but since the head injury I sustained in a MVA, pushing 30 years ago now, I have been suffering from a sleeping disorder also. Chronic fatigue, exacerbated by periods of various lengths of little sleep.

The current period of little sleep has been a tough one; it has lasted for approaching 4 years. Though I know from past experience that it will pass & eventually improve.

I'm not complaining by the way. :)

I'm just relating to someone who also suffers from a sleep disorder. :)

Know that I wish you all the best with your sleeping problem toupeiro.

TNT1
October 27th, 2010, 10:27 AM
I've always thought of it as a "bug" that can occur in the brain as it goes into "sleep mode".

I've never had it, but then again, my brain doesn't run on windows...

Random_Dude
October 27th, 2010, 10:42 AM
I never had OBE. Although I used to have a lot of lucid dreams when I was a kid.

It has neat, I already knew what was going to happen and I could change it. I only have spoiler-free dreams now. :-D

Cheers :cool:

handy
October 27th, 2010, 10:53 AM
I never had OBE. Although I used to have a lot of lucid dreams when I was a kid.

It has neat, I already knew what was going to happen and I could change it. I only have spoiler-free dreams now. :-D

Cheers :cool:

I don't think I agree with your (loose) definition of lucid dreaming.

My definition is, that you take control of your dream state & do with it what you will.

Which is a powerful set of words.

Random_Dude
October 27th, 2010, 11:20 AM
I don't think I agree with your (loose) definition of lucid dreaming.

My definition is, that you take control of your dream state & do with it what you will.

Which is a powerful set of words.

As I said:

I already knew what was going to happen and I could change it.

If I didn't like what was happening, I could change it. Also, I could change what was going to happen too, because I already knew what was going to happen. I can't do it anymore though. :(

theraje
October 27th, 2010, 12:18 PM
I remember having quite a few OBE's, starting from when I was younger. I also have had a litany of sleep and psychological disorders, so I guess it kind of goes hand-in-hand (not that having an OBE means you are mentally ill, but that being mentally ill could conceivably contribute to such experiences).

I would often "leave" my body and be able to watch myself. Sometimes it was more like just my mind left my body, and someone else was in my head giving me instructions or commentary on what I was doing. (Note that this isn't the "God told me to do it" kind of instructions, it's hard to explain... it was more like some kind of projection of what I was about to do put into words as I would perform the action...)

Have also experienced bouts of sleep paralysis and lucid dreaming. Of course, that's all pretty much in the past - once I started my current medication regimen, my actual psychotic symptoms disappeared - along with many of those "less-psychotic" effects.

All I can say is... be aware that provoking things like OBE's and lucid dreaming could possibly have some "interesting" negative effects on your psyche. Proceed at your own risk.

handy
October 27th, 2010, 01:15 PM
As I said:


If I didn't like what was happening, I could change it. Also, I could change what was going to happen too, because I already knew what was going to happen. I can't do it anymore though. :(

Dreams are extremely cool huh!

The huge variety of ways that they can work; the various levels of meaning within their capacity; ranging from (to our normal waking consciousness) useless, to the most profound insights you ever get in your whole life!

I love them & are grateful every single one I have ever had. :D

undecim
October 27th, 2010, 01:28 PM
I do a lot of lucid dreaming, it is a completely different experience than an OBE. In my experience at least.

It wasn't the lucid dream, but the part before I got to a dream state. I've had (unintentional) lucid dreams before, but trying a WILD, I have an OBE.

Freakin' tornado sirens kept waking me up last night just as I was falling asleep, and I just gave up.

Something that's weird though: I've been doing reality checks lately, especially as I wake up, and you know how you're not supposed to be able to see your feet in dreams? I Had a false awaking last night where I saw my feet. Kind of made me mad when I realized it this morning, lol. Guess I'm going to have to switch to the digital watch reality check (since I keep a watch on almost all the time)

CraigPaleo
October 27th, 2010, 01:54 PM
Welcome to 2-3 times a week (sometimes as infrequent as 1-3 months) of my life since I was age 5. :) That is one of the sensations of the sleep paralysis I have. I actually thought it was normal, and didn't think I had anything wrong until I was 18 years old and described it to a coworker and saw the look on his face.. I couldn't imagine wanting it, having lived with that sensation my whole life with no controlling it, not even with medication.

I hate sleep paralysis! I don't get out of my body but if my eye is slightly open, I can see. Sometimes I'll hallucinate. I'll feel something pushing on me or I'll see a dark figure. I think this is what many people mistake for hauntings or alien abductions. It's kind of like dreaming while you're awake. It's the most vulnerable feeling I've ever had.

ratcheer
October 27th, 2010, 02:11 PM
Ever have one? I did for a short trip I was away from home 12 years old. ok in reform school.Any ways I was about to fall asleep and felt like I was floating to the ceiling.Then suddenly I was back in my body.strange feeling.
then how about when you feel like your going to fall out of bed but your bodys not moving.anybody have a OBE or know what it is?

I had one when I was about 24 years old. I was in college at Tuscaloosa, AL. One day, 23 tornadoes struck the county within a 24-hour period. Seven of them struck where I was. Without going into too much detail, I had emotionally given up hope when the seventh one struck and I had an OBE, looking down at myself laying on the bed.

Whether it was real or just a dream, that is what I experienced.

Tim

Sporkman
October 27th, 2010, 04:19 PM
I was ripped out through my stomach once (really quite a shock to the system).

Interesting experience, looking down on my room with my wife & my sleeping bodies in our beds.

I won't go into details of what I was then told or by who. It was certainly one of those experiences that I'll never forget.

You were dreaming.

handy
October 27th, 2010, 05:26 PM
You were dreaming.

Thankfully, someone has finally, after all of these years come up with the high powered cognisant insight required to set my poor troubled mind at ease, after all of these years.

Thank you Sporkman.

I have been waiting so long for you...

Sporkman
October 27th, 2010, 05:42 PM
Thank you Sporkman.

I have been waiting so long for you...

I get that a lot. :)

conundrumx
October 27th, 2010, 05:43 PM
Thankfully, someone has finally, after all of these years come up with the high powered cognisant insight required to set my poor troubled mind at ease, after all of these years.

Thank you Sporkman.

I have been waiting so long for you...

Occam's razor. The first time "out of body experiences" were really documented was by NASA, when astronauts were training in centrifuges. Based on studies relating to that, and other "out of body experiences," the current (to my knowledge) scientific conclusion is that if a conscious person experience such a thing, it's a hallucination brought on by your brain nearly dying.

The human body has been sliced into paper thin pieces, dissected, X-rayed, scanned with magnetic resonance imaging... the list goes on. There is no evidence of any soul or "consciousness." Our brain contains a series of electrical signals which defines us as individuals. If you removed that electricity you would have a corpse, not some ethereal thing with the ability to perceive and think.

I'm sorry if this somehow diminishes or cheapens life in your view, but what you had was a very vivid dream, nothing more.

handy
October 27th, 2010, 06:27 PM
@conundrumx: Thanks for that. :)

Now I know how to interpret my reality. lol

Have a read of "The Taboo of Subjectivity - Toward a New Science of Consciousness" by B. Alan Wallace.

If you think that mister Wallace is full of shite, then do a little research before that, please? :)

& preferably read the book, then please get back to us with your newly informed opinion?

handy
October 27th, 2010, 06:30 PM
I get that a lot. :)

I wish I did! lol

Duncan J Murray
October 27th, 2010, 06:42 PM
Have had it once when I came off a racing bike at around 25-30mph and, presumably, hit my head in the process. I had this view of someone sliding along the road with the bike on top of them, and I remember thinking 'ouch, that looks painful!'. It was only until several weeks later when I connected that this experienced occurred while I was knocked out, and that it was me!

Another time, as a child, I had some sort of virus, and thought I floated up to the ceiling. I realised that I musn't have actually done that, because when I tried to pass over a sofa, I couldn't actually do it. However, since I didn't actually see myself, I don't think this counts as an OBE.

conundrumx
October 27th, 2010, 07:14 PM
@conundrumx: Thanks for that. :)

Now I know how to interpret my reality. lol

Have a read of "The Taboo of Subjectivity - Toward a New Science of Consciousness" by B. Alan Wallace.

If you think that mister Wallace is full of shite, then do a little research before that, please? :)

& preferably read the book, then please get back to us with your newly informed opinion?

"Your reality"? While you may perceive things in an entirely different manner, I hope you don't think we exist in different realities...

I hope you'll forgive me if I'm reluctant to add yet another book to my ever growing queue of books to read. Based on the synopsis, reviews and background on the author, it seems the author made some eloquent and perhaps even insightful arguments augmented with genuinely good research. However, the gist of the whole thing (if it had to be boiled down) seems to be "science can't explain everything." Which is true, it can't...yet. The problem with this line of thought is then that "since science can't explain everything, then X may/must be possible!"

While it is entirely possible that there is a soul or consciousness that exists outside the realm of (current) science, it is also entirely possible that the entire world; nay, the entire universe is an ant farm on someone's desk. It's silly to suggest either of these things are true based on current information.

In regards to "out of body experiences" as a whole, it's the same as tarot cards, palm reading, astrology...the list goes on. Much to my surprise no one has applied for the One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge (http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html) with anything like "out of body experiences" yet. Perhaps you could be the first? :)

What this all comes down to is people (intentionally or otherwise) making more of something than they should. Something surprising or unexpected happens (they feel like they're outside their own body) and instead of approaching it rationally and thinking "gee, well I was asleep," they instead jump to the most fanciful and improbable conclusion there is. In case you're not familiar, Occam's Razor is the concept that the simplest explanation is often the correct one. If something weird happened to you when you were sleeping/falling asleep/waking up it seems pretty likely your subconscious was just messing with you.

john77eipe
October 27th, 2010, 07:20 PM
Floating and falling experiences are called Hypnic jerk. It's caused when we go from mild sleep to deep sleep (REM sleep).

I usually experience it whenever I have irregular sleep timings.

cpmman
October 27th, 2010, 07:30 PM
I never had an OBE. The closest things I could relate this to (according to the signs described by those who experienced OBE) are the dreams I had before I was cured off of sleep apnea. So nothing paranormal in my case, just a physical condition as far as I'm concerned.

off topic - sorry.
Please detail cure - I am a long-time sufferer of apna.

NCLI
October 27th, 2010, 07:52 PM
On a broader note: It is worth considering that some people experience life in very different ways than others. Mental disorders not being a part of the equation at all.
Will you please state a source for this part? A scientifically acknowledged one please.

I believe it.
On what grounds?

Thankfully, someone has finally, after all of these years come up with the high powered cognisant insight required to set my poor troubled mind at ease, after all of these years.

Thank you Sporkman.

I have been waiting so long for you...
His answer is logical, the fact that you don't want to face that it was just a meaningless hallucination doesn't make it any less true.

"Your reality"? While you may perceive things in an entirely different manner, I hope you don't think we exist in different realities...

I hope you'll forgive me if I'm reluctant to add yet another book to my ever growing queue of books to read. Based on the synopsis, reviews and background on the author, it seems the author made some eloquent and perhaps even insightful arguments augmented with genuinely good research. However, the gist of the whole thing (if it had to be boiled down) seems to be "science can't explain everything." Which is true, it can't...yet. The problem with this line of thought is then that "since science can't explain everything, then X may/must be possible!"

While it is entirely possible that there is a soul or consciousness that exists outside the realm of (current) science, it is also entirely possible that the entire world; nay, the entire universe is an ant farm on someone's desk. It's silly to suggest either of these things are true based on current information.

In regards to "out of body experiences" as a whole, it's the same as tarot cards, palm reading, astrology...the list goes on. Much to my surprise no one has applied for the One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge (http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html) with anything like "out of body experiences" yet. Perhaps you could be the first? :)

What this all comes down to is people (intentionally or otherwise) making more of something than they should. Something surprising or unexpected happens (they feel like they're outside their own body) and instead of approaching it rationally and thinking "gee, well I was asleep," they instead jump to the most fanciful and improbable conclusion there is. In case you're not familiar, Occam's Razor is the concept that the simplest explanation is often the correct one. If something weird happened to you when you were sleeping/falling asleep/waking up it seems pretty likely your subconscious was just messing with you.
Will you marry me? :oops:

Sporkman
October 27th, 2010, 07:56 PM
His answer is logical, the fact that you don't want to face that it was just a meaningless hallucination doesn't make it any less true.


I didn't mean to imply that it was meaningless, just that it was subconsciously generated - i.e. a dream.

conundrumx
October 27th, 2010, 07:57 PM
Will you marry me? :oops:

Well, you're from Denmark. Maybe.

handy
October 27th, 2010, 08:14 PM
I'm not here to attempt any conversions.

My experiences are mine, you or anyone else can think whatever you/they like about them.

Though those thoughts are most likely erroneous, as no one truly has any true idea of what I am speaking about; or of what my personal experiences were/are.

Remember that this is just a forum for loose talk on whatever?

Not a scientific forum where the aim of the game is to find all faults possible on any hypothesis.

My experiences are NO hypothesis, nor are they delusion. They are just a part of my highly valued reality.

Anyway, this is not me chickening out.

I just can't see any positive outcome from what would ultimately be a vain waste of my energy, being expended in the pursuit of my (again) vain attempt to validate a personal experience to a stranger. :)

conundrumx
October 27th, 2010, 08:32 PM
I'm not here to attempt any conversions.

My experiences are mine, you or anyone else can think whatever you/they like about them.

Though those thoughts are most likely erroneous, as no one truly has any true idea of what I am speaking about; or of what my personal experiences were/are.

Remember that this is just a forum for loose talk on whatever?

Not a scientific forum where the aim of the game is to find all faults possible on any hypothesis. My experiences are NO hypothesis, nor are they delusion. They are just a part of my highly valued reality.

Anyway, this is not me chickening out.

I just can't see any positive outcome from what would ultimately be a vain waste of my energy, being expended in the pursuit of my (again) vain attempt to validate a personal experience to a stranger. :)

You can think whatever you'd like, it doesn't bother me. I just think it's unfortunate that you intentionally perpetuate your own ignorance. I want to help you, it's like watching a child walk face first into a glass door.

I'm not saying people who think they've had "out of body experiences" are delusional, self aggrandizing assholes (that's people who think an omnipotent being has talked to them personally). I'm just saying they take a very sensationalist, irrational approach to what is on the face of it a very irrational experience. The problem is, if you think rationally about it (Did anyone else see it? Is there any evidence? Was I asleep? Is it possible this all happened in my mind?) it becomes obvious very quickly that nothing supernatural happened.

I have extremely vivid dreams all the time. I wake up thinking something that happened in a dream actually happened, and realize hours after waking up that it did not. I don't immediately jump to the conclusion that I'm experiencing alternate realities or having premonitions - they're just dreams.

ticopelp
October 27th, 2010, 08:42 PM
You can think whatever you'd like, it doesn't bother me. I just think it's unfortunate that you intentionally perpetuate your own ignorance. I want to help you, it's like watching a child walk face first into a glass door.

This kind of smug condescension isn't necessary. handy's a very smart and considerate poster. He doesn't need your help, and he doesn't deserve to be talked down to like that.

handy
October 27th, 2010, 08:57 PM
You can think whatever you'd like, it doesn't bother me.

I'm glad to hear that, though what follows doesn't ring true with your statement?



I just think it's unfortunate that you intentionally perpetuate your own ignorance.

:lolflag: Now please accept this from the start? None of what follows is personal, ok?

Your above statement is ridiculous!

Please reread it? After which perhaps (hopefully) you will see, that given the circumstances of this situation, that it is impossible for you to know enough about the way my mind works for you to make such a statement.



I want to help you, it's like watching a child walk face first into a glass door.

Thanks for that.



I'm not saying people who think they've had "out of body experiences" are delusional, self aggrandising ***-holes (that's people who think an omnipotent being has talked to them personally).

I'm so glad that you made your reply to me. :)



I'm just saying they take a very sensationalist, irrational approach to what is on the face of it a very irrational experience.

Since you put it that way, I really have to agree with you. I really hadn't appreciated just how irrational this topic really was.



The problem is, if you think rationally about it (Did anyone else see it? Is there any evidence? Was I asleep? Is it possible this all happened in my mind?) it becomes obvious very quickly that nothing supernatural happened.

It is true. I really should have looked at it like that before. You are right, I truly was asleep; & really; whatever I experienced was only happening in my mind. So there is really absolutely no proof that it happened at all.



I have extremely vivid dreams all the time. I wake up thinking something that happened in a dream actually happened, and realise hours after waking up that it did not. I don't immediately jump to the conclusion that I'm experiencing alternate realities or having premonitions - they're just dreams.

Bang on brother, you nailed it!

undecim
October 27th, 2010, 09:02 PM
You can think whatever you'd like, it doesn't bother me. I just think it's unfortunate that you intentionally perpetuate your own ignorance. I want to help you, it's like watching a child walk face first into a glass door.

I'm not saying people who think they've had "out of body experiences" are delusional, self aggrandizing assholes (that's people who think an omnipotent being has talked to them personally). I'm just saying they take a very sensationalist, irrational approach to what is on the face of it a very irrational experience. The problem is, if you think rationally about it (Did anyone else see it? Is there any evidence? Was I asleep? Is it possible this all happened in my mind?) it becomes obvious very quickly that nothing supernatural happened.

I have extremely vivid dreams all the time. I wake up thinking something that happened in a dream actually happened, and realize hours after waking up that it did not. I don't immediately jump to the conclusion that I'm experiencing alternate realities or having premonitions - they're just dreams.

Like watching a child walk face first into a glass door? how so? Just because someone believes something doesn't mean that it will hurt them. So someone's wrong about something. So what? It's not like he'll die an early death because of it. As long as that person isn't going about screaming at people for not believing what they believe, what harm is there?

Just let people think what they want to think. When it starts doing harm to you or others, then you can stop them from walking into that glass door. Until then, let them have their fun.

Sporkman
October 27th, 2010, 09:08 PM
Let me just state that it's not as easy as people think to detect whether you're dreaming or not. Just by virtue of being asleep your objective faculties are significantly compromised. :)

There have been times where I'd be laying there, and suddenly my wife would yell "stop snoring!" As far as I could tell, I was awake for a continuous stretch of time, and no snoring occurred, but apparently (according to an independent observer) that was incorrect.

handy
October 27th, 2010, 09:12 PM
I think that I was probably more unkind than was necessary in my previous post.

It is probably best for this thread's longevity if we just kind of skip over that stuff & carry on; as it has been really quite an interesting & fun thread (I think anyway).

undecim
October 27th, 2010, 09:15 PM
I think that I was probably more unkind than was necessary in my previous post.

It is probably best for this thread's longevity if we just kind of skip over that stuff & carry on; as it has been really quite an interesting & fun thread (I think anyway).

Yeah, this thread is about to get closed if we carry on like this.

ticopelp
October 27th, 2010, 09:18 PM
I will say that while I've experienced falling / floating experiences many times, including muscle spasms that abruptly wake me up, I've never experienced anything like an OBE or even lucid dreaming. I'm rather envious of people who control what happens in their dreams.

handy
October 27th, 2010, 09:20 PM
Let me just state that it's not as easy as people think to detect whether you're dreaming or not. Just by virtue of being asleep your objective faculties are significantly compromised. :)

I think you could be onto something there Sporkman. :)

Though some people find it much easier than others to handle dream consciousness.



There have been times where I'd be laying there, and suddenly my wife would yell "stop snoring!" As far as I could tell, I was awake for a continuous stretch of time, and no snoring occurred, but apparently (according to an independent observer) that was incorrect.

Perhaps she was actually asleep & was dreaming that you were snoring?

Next time she runs that one on you, be prepared. Tell her that you were awake & that she was asleep & dreamt the whole episode.

Though I can see that really you will need to apply some will to that one, one way & another. :)

cpmman
October 27th, 2010, 09:25 PM
I should be unaware of my apnœa if it were not for my wife's sharp elbow - brings reality to my OBE.

conundrumx
October 27th, 2010, 09:28 PM
Handy is trying very hard to be diplomatic and drop the conversation with me, and I'm inclined to do the same. I agree I was being condescending - it was intentional. It doesn't mean Handy is a bad person, or a stupid person. What it does mean is that I think he lacks the ability to objectively assess a particular experience he believes he had. And you're right Handy, your ...position does bother me in a way, I should have been more specific. I'm not upset, I won't really care about this thread or conversation a few days from now. No need to pull the sarcastic killing with kindness routine; it just makes your position look weaker.

All that being said, I do feel the need to respond to some things said not covered by the previous paragraph!

Edit: That all came out meaner than anticipated, accept my apologies for being too lazy to reword everything.


Like watching a child walk face first into a glass door? how so? Just because someone believes something doesn't mean that it will hurt them. So someone's wrong about something. So what? It's not like he'll die an early death because of it. As long as that person isn't going about screaming at people for not believing what they believe, what harm is there?

Just let people think what they want to think. When it starts doing harm to you or others, then you can stop them from walking into that glass door. Until then, let them have their fun.

Well, the only reason a child would do this is if they didn't grasp the concept of glass. Walking into a glass door (oh yes, I've done it) isn't terribly painful or harmful, unlike running face first into a dutch door that was just thrown open (yep, done that too). As far as your last question, there's a lot of harm. When someone makes an incredible claim the first response should always be "really?" Not because the person is untrustworthy, but because accepting things at face value without any investigation perpetuates ignorance and leads to silly things like saying "god bless you" when someone sneezes.

handy
October 27th, 2010, 09:32 PM
I should be unaware of my apna if it were not for my wife's sharp elbow - brings reality to my OBE.

:lolflag:

Reality?

Speaking of reality & elbows; my wife's elbows are so pointy that she could impale someone (or two) with them.

A scary natural phenomenon.

I treat her with respect. :)

Sporkman
October 27th, 2010, 09:32 PM
Perhaps she was actually asleep & was dreaming that you were snoring?

Next time she runs that one on you, be prepared. Tell her that you were awake & that she was asleep & dreamt the whole episode.

Heh, good point. :D

handy
October 27th, 2010, 09:37 PM
@conundrumx: Forget it?

We have no problems here. :)

Let's enjoy all of the various members of this wonderful forum?

There is no need to get too serious about topics, ourselves or others.

The Code of Conduct here (essentially) says, be light hearted & enjoy each other. :D

cpmman
October 27th, 2010, 09:45 PM
:lolflag:

Reality?

Speaking of reality & elbows; my wife's elbows are so pointy that she could impale someone (or two) with them.

A scary natural phenomenon.

I treat her with respect. :)

How many share your bed?

What surprises do you see from your OBE?

handy
October 27th, 2010, 10:11 PM
How many share your bed?

That's the easy one. Just the two of us. lol



What surprises do you see from your OBE?

If I was talking to you face to face over a cup of coffee (for instance), I couldn't do justice to the experiences.

It is so personal & powerful, I really can't talk about it here. There are only a couple of people that I have been able to, & would ever be able to talk about these experiences with.

I'm sorry about that. :(

cpmman
October 27th, 2010, 10:20 PM
No probs mate.

My OBE was actually an IBE (In not out) and involved a "ghost" whilst I was driving - I know I'm a nutter but wth.

toupeiro
October 27th, 2010, 10:52 PM
I hate sleep paralysis! I don't get out of my body but if my eye is slightly open, I can see. Sometimes I'll hallucinate. I'll feel something pushing on me or I'll see a dark figure. I think this is what many people mistake for hauntings or alien abductions. It's kind of like dreaming while you're awake. It's the most vulnerable feeling I've ever had.

You said it! It makes you feel incredibly vulnerable! Experiencing it so frequently, The situation you are describing is one of the most common for me, where sometimes your eye or eyes may be partially open as you enter REM, but your brain is fully awake. It's a true seperation of consciousness for a while there. Whats most scary, is when you realize that you can't feel yourself inhale or exhale, and you think you've stopped breathing alltogether. Thats such a HORRIBLE experience. One time, I was able to fall asleep in such a way that I saw my chest cavity moving which told me I was breathing, even though my nervous system was telling me that I wasn't...

I can share one of the OBE experiences I had. I was about 17 years old, crashed out on my uncles couch, and my uncle was asleep in his recliner. I started to have a paralysis episode and I was trying to yell to wake him up so he could try to shake me out of it, but couldn't yell. I started to feel a tremendous pressure, and the sound around me seemed like it was fading further away, then felt very lightweight, and eventually realized I was seeing the room my uncle and I were in from a different perspective alltogether. It felt incredibly surreal, almost like the feeling of vertigo, but that kept lasting, That same time, my aunt came home from work, and I saw her come through the front door, go down the hallway, and start unpacking her work bags on the bed in their bedroom. in just a few seconds I was out of the paralysis state and sat up quick enough and apparently gasped, and the gasp woke my uncle up.

I told him I had a bad dream, but that my aunt was home and argued that she wasn't. The door in their house closed really loud, and he had a good point that if she had come home, the door would have woke him and not my gasp. But sure enough, she was home, and came home and did exactly what I described her doing. The funny thing was, she said she stood in the entryway for a few seconds after she closed the door and saw the two of us apparently sleeping, so I know the door didn't wake him or I..

The weird thing was that it wasn't as if I was following her, I just seemed to be seeing what was going on, from the perspective I was seeing myself and my uncle, which seems impossible because there were several rooms and walls seperating my aunt and us.

Anyway, thats one of several experiences, all of them different in their own way.

agnes
October 27th, 2010, 10:59 PM
I had it once when I was 14 in school. It was in the break, I was listening to friends. (Apparently their conversation was not very interesting ;)).

It was only a few seconds. I had to go to class immediately after - very weird. Nobody did notice.

So it was not before going to sleep or during sleep, I can not sleep in public spaces or during daytime anyway. But I was quite tired. I was very unhappy at school that day; which probably triggered it besides the tiredness.

Old_Grey_Wolf
October 28th, 2010, 12:05 AM
I have also had lucid dreams. Actually, all the dreams I can remember are Lucid.

When I was very young I had nightmares where this big red and black mass would engulf me and I felt I was being smothered. I learned to take control of the dream. I learned to send the mass backward away from me, or divert it in another direction, and so on. I eventually stopped having that dream. After that, I have always been able to control my dreams.

I actually studied philosophies that support the idea of OBE. There are techniques used to develop out-of-body experiences. I can still do it at will. I don't have to be asleep or near sleep to do it either.

cascade9
October 30th, 2010, 10:11 AM
Handy is trying very hard to be diplomatic and drop the conversation with me, and I'm inclined to do the same. I agree I was being condescending - it was intentional. It doesn't mean Handy is a bad person, or a stupid person. What it does mean is that I think he lacks the ability to objectively assess a particular experience he believes he had. And you're right Handy, your ...position does bother me in a way, I should have been more specific. I'm not upset, I won't really care about this thread or conversation a few days from now. No need to pull the sarcastic killing with kindness routine; it just makes your position look weaker.

I can see your point, and Handys. I tend to lean far more to Handys point of view, but thats due to other (non OOBE) stuff that I've experienced.....most of which aren't suitable for this forum.

BTW, just as an aisde for you to consider, have you ever heard of Dr Duncan MacDougall?

http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp

Yes, I know that for varuious reasons the data he gathered is discounted (normally due to 'small sample size' and 'imprecise weight measurement'). IMO, thats twisting/discounting the facts to fit with theory, which is something I've seen lot of (see Dr. Robert Schoch and the age of the sphinx for another example of that).


Well, the only reason a child would do this is if they didn't grasp the concept of glass. Walking into a glass door (oh yes, I've done it) isn't terribly painful or harmful, unlike running face first into a dutch door that was just thrown open (yep, done that too). As far as your last question, there's a lot of harm. When someone makes an incredible claim the first response should always be "really?" Not because the person is untrustworthy, but because accepting things at face value without any investigation perpetuates ignorance and leads to silly things like saying "god bless you" when someone sneezes.

I'll give you another reason, that I personally did. I was staying at the motel with a glass sliding door leading out the back. I went to out tn play, and then when I came back the glass sliding door had been cleaned. It was ditry before, so when I ran around the corner it looked like the door was open. SMACK!

handy
October 30th, 2010, 10:31 AM
@conundrumx: "Killing you with kindness" as you poetically put it, was really the kindest thing to do as far as I'm concerned.

I learned decades ago that when I'm basically called a liar, or someone is otherwise directly disrespectful to me, the smart thing to do is to turn around & walk away.

I expect that most people when they look at that statement would agree. Who needs the fight? Especially a fight where absolutely nothing is to be gained.

So, believe what you want & argue with whomever you like to, as best I can, I've taken myself out of that game.

Peace. :) (& I mean that most sincerely)