Unity to be included as part of the default desktop installation

[Oxwivi]

As OMG! Ubuntu! reported (http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/?p=3147), Unity for default desktop instead of GNOME Shell is gonna be up for discussions in the next UDS. What do you think? Personally, I'd like to try it on the regular desktop version.

EDIT Unity will be used as the default DE, Mark Shuttleworth has announced at the UDS. More info at Jono Bacon's blog post (http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/10/25/ubuntu-11-04-to-ship-unity/).

EDIT With the prevailing skeptic reaction about Unity being the default DE, Jono Bacon has posted in his blog (http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/10/31/unity-some-further-clarification-points/) to further clarify the issue of Unity replacing GNOME Shell.

[Luffield]

I prefer Gnome 2.xx.

[ctrlmd]

i'll wait and see the final work then i'll decide like or dislike & switch to kde

[murderslastcrow]

I think it's important that we consider new approaches to the desktop, because if Gnome 2 just stays Gnome 2, Xfce is going to completely catch up in features (hasn't it already?) and make Gnome nothing but a novelty of the old guys in free software.

Personally, I think it would be far better to support Gnome and make Gnome 3 a great release, rather than taking a bunch of focus away onto a custom shell with GTK. Of course, it's all up to Canonical and the users, but Gnome is having a hard time as it is. I really hope Gnome 3 brings it up to par with KDE 4 (not in the same features, not mimicking anyone, just a modern Gnome, like KDE 4 is a modern KDE). I really liked Gnome-Shell, but we still have to work a lot on Gnome's theme engines and bare functionality, rather than just tagging stuff onto it. Integrating the usability, not just modding Gnome into Ubuntu.

I personally won't mind if Gnome 3 alienates a bunch of users and they come over to KDE 4 to discover its richness, but I really love Gnome because of where it came from and where it brought Linux into the mainstream. It just really needs a little extra polish.

Then again, all of these options are better than Windows, LOL! Look at how spoiled we are.

[Oxwivi]

Now that Qt has been released under LGPL, wouldn't it be a good idea to continue GNOME development with Qt?


Look at how spoiled we are.
+1

[woodbj]

OMG! Ubuntu! - Ubuntu 11.04 to ship Unity as default desktop? (http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/10/ubuntu-11-04-to-ship-unity-as-default-desktop/)
Blueprint - Approved by Mark Shuttleworth himself (https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packageselection-desktop-n-specialized-unity-form-factor)

Do you think this is a good idea?

IMO I think that with a bit of modding to make Unity better for bigger screens it could make a good experience. With thinking of how awesome Canonical made it look in a short time frame, imagine what it could look/feel like in 6+ months time.

[Spice Weasel]

I have a feeling xfce4 is going to become a lot more popular once GNOME 3 is out, people will want to use something familiar.

[Oxwivi]

Maybe in other distros, but your average Ubuntu user may want to try out the new stuff.

[nlsthzn]

Thing is... the DE is just another tool at the end of the day... I find that I get the most done with the current Gnome and the default layout that Ubuntu decided on (well, OK, Gnome basically decided on :))

If something like Unity or Gnome 3 can deliver this for me then great... else I suspect the next in line for me would be XFCE which is similar (or maybe LXDE, but I have not tried it yet)...

I only use the Netbook Remix interface because it is optimised for the silly resolution Netbooks run on, other than that I despise it as it makes me much slower at doing what I want to do...


Personal preference all the way, but I wish Gnome all the best on what ever they decide... I may or my not be using it in the future ;)

[MacUntu]

If I had to decide between the Shell and Unity, I'd pick Unity without hesitation, but I guess a lot of people would rather stick to the "old" two panel setup...

[ronacc]

While I personaly do not find the shell as useful as the existing desktop , as an alternative to Unity which I refuse to run even on my net book , Unity would be the straw this camel could not carry .

[Santaji]

I think it would be great, as long as they fix the bugs and make it super-stable.
The current GNOME desktop is ok, but i'm not a big fan of it. I prefer to have a dock and global-menu like Mac OS X and Ubuntu Unity.
Unity also seems more "modern" then the current GNOME desktop which looks slightly outdated.

[qamelian]

I've been running Gnome Shell as the primary desktop environment on my laptop almost since it became possible to install it and I love it. I've also used Unity on another machine and can tell you right now that I will never consider it a serious alternative to GS. If the discussion at UDS results in Unity on the desktop getting a thumbs up, I can tell you right now that the first customization I'll do on a new install will be to uninstall it.

[ronacc]

@ the OP I don't think that whoever wrote that blueprint ever played with the shell or the Mac desktop , I have a Mac and I run the shell on my testing install and they are much more alike than either is to Unity .

[rvchari]

from the day i upgraded from lucid to maverik, i was honestly awed with the default unity net book edition menus and the global menu.

i have one problem, the global menu title thats displayed in the main panel has just 9 chars. for example if i m using file browser, it says file. if i use appearance app, it displays appearanc and so on.

secondly global menu does not support firefox and some other apps. the file menu is in the browser and not in the panel as is required in global menu.

3rdly i wish to rename my file browser to nautilus (like Finder in Mac) any clue how one does it ?

any idea how to solve this ?

[m4tic]

Why should there even be a change?

[Oxwivi]

GNOME Shell is gettin' ye olde.

[NightwishFan]

I actually doubt it will be the default by the next release however I am all for it. Unity smoothed out will be an awesome environment.

[m4tic]

Who would name a site for geeks OMG!

[Starks]

I hope Canonical sends Unity as an upstream contribution to Gnome.

[ronacc]

I hope Canonical sends Unity somewhere it can't find its way home from .

[Merk42]

Unity / GNOME Shell / Panels

No matter what Canoncial decides, people will be outraged and act like it's the end of Ubuntu.

[nlsthzn]

Who would name a site for geeks OMG!

Joey Sneddon and Benjamin Humphrey apparently...http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/

[Glenn nl]

I think it´s Xubuntu for my mom next release....

[ronacc]

Unity / GNOME Shell / Panels

No matter what Canoncial decides, people will be outraged and act like it's the end of Ubuntu.

How true , so we might as well maximize the furor , 40 column text and a green screen :P

[NCLI]

Why should there even be a change?
To avoid stagnation.

Anyway, I think both are good choices, though I'm more excited for Unity simply because Canonical would have direct control over it, and that it would introduce a third big player to the DE arena.

[PuddingKnife]

I think both are good choices, though I'm more excited for Unity simply because Canonical would have direct control over it, and that it would introduce a third big player to the DE arena.

What do you mean? To quote Jono Bacon:


There is going to be some questions about this decision in relation to GNOME. I want to make something crystal clear: Ubuntu is a GNOME distribution, we ship the GNOME stack, we will continue to ship GNOME apps, and we optimize Ubuntu for GNOME. The only difference is that Unity is a different shell for GNOME, but we continue to support the latest GNOME Shell development work in the Ubuntu archives.

[Oxwivi]

Unity is a stand-in until GNOME 3.

[nlsthzn]

According to Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/ubuntulinux) Unity is now officially been announced to be shipping with 11.04 (http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/10/25/ubuntu-11-04-to-ship-unity/) but I will await more "Official" official news (besides, the second site doesn't even want to load for me)

[Ric_NYC]

Kde.

[cariboo]

Merged two threads on the same subject.

[Morbius1]

As nlsthzn suggested it's already been decided: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/10/ubuntu-11-04-unity-default-desktop/

The transformation is now complete. The personal computer has been transformed into an appliance. Gnome and KDE were headed there anyway so why not just leapfrog them both.

[nlsthzn]

Unity is a stand-in until GNOME 3.

No, it would seem Unity is now going to be used instead of Gnome 3...

[NCLI]

What do you mean? To quote Jono Bacon:
What Jono says is true, but Unity will still be a competitor to GNOME Shell, even though it relies on the GNOME stack. Hopefully both teams can push each other to create even better products.

As nlsthzn suggested it's already been decided: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/10/ubuntu-11-04-unity-default-desktop/

The transformation is now complete. The personal computer has been transformed into an appliance. Gnome and KDE were headed there anyway so why not just leapfrog them both.

Yep, looks like it. Unity for 11.04 Desktop Edition, people! Could a mod please rename the thread?

I don't think it will really transform the desktop version much, since I fully expect it to be a very customized version of Unity, possibly with only the Launcher and top panel, keeping the GNOME desktop with shortcuts and everything.

Also, if it isn't themeable, I'll be disappointed.

BTW, it looks like most people overlooked some good news:

Another key focus is performance; we have already started porting Unity from mutter to Compiz and the initial work is much faster, most notably on hardware that has traditionally had the most trouble from bug reports. Quality meets design meets performance. Together as a community we can make this rock.
It will be based on COMPIZ, and thus fully compatible with the existing plugins, keeping it alive despite GNOME Shell's efforts to kill it off :p

[Oxwivi]

WHEE! So it's been decided! Can't wait to try it!

[nlsthzn]

I was under the impression you had?

Still had a LONG way to go...

[Lucradia]

I prefer Gnome 2.xx.

+1.

I think I'm going to Xubuntu with Natty.

[NCLI]

I was under the impression you had?

Still had a LONG way to go...
Most of us have tried the netbook edition, so I think he means that he's looking forward to trying the Desktop Edition ;)

+1.

I think I'm going to Xubuntu with Natty.
I'm sure Gnome 2.XX will still be in the repos, so no need to do that unless you prefer XFCE ;)

[Lucradia]

I'm sure Gnome 2.XX will still be in the repos, so no need to do that ;)

Well, if I want to record 3D video games better, Xubuntu may as well be my choice, without compositing on, but with 3D Drivers.

[magneze]

This could be a brilliant idea assuming that the Unity released with 11.04 is better than the version released in 10.10. The 10.10 version is buggy and very very slow.

[Half-Left]

What Jono says is true, but Unity will still be a competitor to GNOME Shell, even though it relies on the GNOME stack. Hopefully both teams can push each other to create even better products.


Yep, looks like it. Unity for 11.04 Desktop Edition, people! Could a mod please rename the thread?

I don't think it will really transform the desktop version much, since I fully expect it to be a very customized version of Unity, possibly with only the Launcher and top panel, keeping the GNOME desktop with shortcuts and everything.

Also, if it isn't themeable, I'll be disappointed.

BTW, it looks like most people overlooked some good news:

It will be based on COMPIZ, and thus fully compatible with the existing plugins, keeping it alive despite GNOME Shell's efforts to kill it off :p

Mutter will be plugin based as well. Just remember that Canonical use Compiz by default, not GNOME and they never have or will because Compiz is a hack

Canonical are just telling you what you want to hear in that regard.

[NightwishFan]

I dont quite understand what you mean.

[NCLI]

Mutter will be plugin based as well. Just remember that Canonical use Compiz by default, not GNOME and they never have or will because Compiz is a hack

Canonical are just telling you what you want to hear in that regard.
...what? How is Compiz a "hack", and why should I care about what Gnome does?

Compiz simply replaces Metacity, the default Window Manager. That's not being a hack, that's offering an alternative.

[Lucradia]

Mutter will be plugin based as well. Just remember that Canonical use Compiz by default, not GNOME and they never have or will because Compiz was hacked by Canonical to be integrated better into ubuntu, and harder to remove; and originally wasn't compatible with Metacity, and required emerald.

Canonical are just telling you what you want to hear in that regard.

Fixed for you.

[NCLI]

Fixed for you.
Source?

[Lucradia]

Source?

My knowledge of using ubuntu since 6.10 :V

[Glenn nl]

http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/

Lol, expresses my thoughts about Unity default now.

[NCLI]

My knowledge of using ubuntu since 6.10 :V
I meant your source for the conspiracy thing. Just because something is very integrated it doesn't mean that Canonical and the Compiz people did some shady backroom deal. Fact: The more integrated something is, the harder it is(should be?) to remove.

Also, how does making something compatible = hacking?

http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/

Lol, expresses my thoughts about Unity default now.
And http://omgyeeeeeeeeeeeees.org expresses mine.

[Lucradia]

And http://omgyeeeeeeeeeeeees.org expresses mine.

That takes me to a goatse redirect then redirects me to my ISP's "No domain name" error search engine page.

[NCLI]

That takes me to a goatse redirect then redirects me to my ISP's "No domain name" error search engine page.
...are you kidding? I just typed it out, and furthermore, I don't go to any site at all when clicking it.

[uRock]

As OMG! Ubuntu! reported (http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/?p=3147), Unity for default desktop instead of GNOME Shell is gonna be up for discussions in the next UDS. What do you think? Personally, I'd like to try it on the regular desktop version.
I don't vote in public polls. Unity does appear to have its uses. It looks much better on netbooks than the original netbook menus. I am happy with the current version of gnome and prefer it to gnome shell, so hopefully we aren't forced to use it. If we are, then I might have to switch to Xubuntu or Lubuntu. KDE is out of the question for me.

[Canis familiaris]

So it's official now, eh?
Let's see how it works out, we'll get a good idea during Natty beta.
Thankfully it will use Compiz not the buggy mutter.

[NCLI]

So it's official now, eh?
Let's see how it works out, we'll get a good idea during Natty beta.
Thankfully it will use Compiz not the buggy mutter.
I think Mutter was actually the major reason for the complaints about it being slow on netbooks in 10.10, since both it and Gnome Shell perform equally unsatisfactorily on my girlfriend's netbook.

[cariboo]

For those that would actually like to read what the lead Unity dev has to say have a look here (http://njpatel.blogspot.com/). It seems mutter will be dropped in favour of compiz.

[Reokie]

Im just getting used to GNOME, heh. But Unity looks a bit more functional and simple.

[MacUntu]

I'm wondering what this means for Mutter. Its speed hasn't improved much since I first tried GNOME Shell.

[shafin]

Compiz performs a thousand times better than mutter on my pc.
I'm all for Unity if it keeps compiz on.

And the gnome-shell developers are a bit hard to communicate with. They are preoccupied with their ideas and have been quite resistant to valid feedback in the past. I believe canonical first tried to work with them but found it impossible.

[ThePhysician]

Unity on a 3 monitor set up will be atrocious.

[Frogs Hair]

Having used neither , I have say whatever works. The old Gnome Shell screen shots are horrid but it is improving and having Unity on a desktop seems a bit strange. Web Upd8 claims Unity has been chosen as default in 11.04.

[Muhammad Irfan]

Why not? I have my fingers crossed. It might result in a great decision and we may be saying to developers 'thumbs up' in April 2011. I think they should yet reconsider about providing an option to choose the environment to make the process of transition smoother and i am just having this feeling that they are going to do so. :)

I am thinking about giving unity a try on present setup (10.04 LTS) :). Well u can also give Unity a try. The link below contains the ppa repository so u can just give it a try. I am thinking about giving it a try
http://www.ubuntugeek.com/new-unity-release-ready-for-testing-in-ubuntu-10-1010-04.html

[NightwishFan]

Thats the plan, though read back a ways in the thread. Unity is being redesigned to use Compiz (which I found odd at first but I think it will work out much better), and it is going to have specific changes for desktop use. So, full steam ahead I say. Even unity in its current form (without the slowness and such) is pretty good. They have me looking forward to 11.04. :)

[MCVenom]

I hope Canonical sends Unity as an upstream contribution to Gnome.

Honestly, I've felt for awhile that Gnome should just give up on the Shell (and yes, I've tried it).

[regeya]

GNOME Shell is gettin' ye olde.

Huh? It's still pre-release.

[Half-Left]

And the gnome-shell developers are a bit hard to communicate with. They are preoccupied with their ideas and have been quite resistant to valid feedback in the past. I believe canonical first tried to work with them but found it impossible.

What's new? Canonical stick by their own design ideas in just the same way.

[NCLI]

What's new? Canonical stick by their own design ideas in just the same way.
How so? In my experience, the Canonical devs are quick to pick up on suggestions.

Unity on a 3 monitor set up will be atrocious.
Why?

[Ichido]

I have been using Ubuntu since 5.10, mostly because of Gnome.

[skrimpy]

My opinion is that the devs have a very, very long road ahead of them for the next 6 months. I can honestly say that Unity is the first thing I've ever really hated about Ubuntu :)

First indication it was foul was its inability to change themes. Second was the locked "panel bar" that I can't add a weather widget to, I can't add a quick launch terminal application, etc.

Second was the absolutely clunky desktop interface and the fact that the Unity sidebar forces you to horizontal scroll in a browser.

But I'm sure smart minds who don't like their hands tied will solve those problems. After all, we're not working in Windows here...

The biggest issues are how incredibly freaking painful it is to try and launch an application and how torturous it is to try and search for a file. It's just. Horrible. It takes 2-3 steps to even think about launching a file manager. How ridiculous can you get?

Despite what the companies think, my computer is a tool. It's not an entertainment center or a social network hub. They're making all of that garbage super-easy when one only needs it once in awhile. Using your computer for anything productive? Close to impossible in Unity.

I went back to LTS on my netbook. It wasn't worth crying every time I opened the lid (especially since 10.10 killed my netbook's ability to recover from hibernation).

[exploder]

I would rather stick to the current 2 panel setup. It would be a shame to abandon the current innovations like the "Me Menu" and the desktop effects integration in Appearance Preferences. Ubuntu finally reached the point of elegance, it would be a shame to have to start all over from scratch.

[Half-Left]

How so? In my experience, the Canonical devs are quick to pick up on suggestions.


Titlebar button positions, Volume applet, applets in general. In the end, they're what they wanted.

[cariboo]

I would rather stick to the current 2 panel setup. It would be a shame to abandon the current innovations like the "Me Menu" and the desktop effects integration in Appearance Preferences. Ubuntu finally reached the point of elegance, it would be a shame to have to start all over from scratch.

The regular gnome desktop will still be available, just as it is now on Unity netbook edition. Even Gnome 3 will still have the panels.

[scottuss]

Where's stock Gnome as an option?

[moviemaniac]

See this Phoronix article here: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODcxNg

[edited]

How do you guys (and ladies) feel about this announcement?

[Half-Left]

Even Gnome 3 will still have the panels.

No nearly in the same way as GNOME 2, though I'm glad it's not because the current panel is pretty nasty in ways. I'm pretty sure you won't be able to have more than one panel, resize it or position it.

[NightwishFan]

Anyway... :)

Yes this is discussed. No you won't have to leave the gnome-panel. Lets all make a mountain out of a mole hill. Ubuntu certainly has no options on the desktop now.. So in six months it will be unusable. Do you even bother to read? Oh yeah and of course some kind of vague threat "...im leaving this for this..".

Yes, Debian is awesome. If you feel more comfortable using it, more power to you. If it turns out that Ubuntu is unusable perhaps I will join you. I can almost certainly say ill still be using Ubuntu when 11.04 comes around.

[exploder]

I do not like the idea of Unity on the desktop. Shuttleworth has committed to using Unity though and stated it was a bold move. I feel like going with Unity throws away all of the things that finally made Ubuntu elegant.. Let's face it, Unity needs a lot of work to be usable and it will not happen in one or two releases. I think Ubuntu is jeopardizing the prediction of Linux gaining a big share of the market by 2012.

[castrojo]

If that's the way it's gonna be - without an option to stay with the oldschool gnome-panel interface or gnome shell

There will of course be an option to use GNOME 2.x or gnome-shell from GDM as a session (sort of like how we do GNOME Shell today)

[NightwishFan]

No, I think it will just be the gnome-panel as it is now. The Gnome-Shell does not use the gnome-panel at all, so it will not need a rewrite.

[MadCow108]

I think unity could actually work better on a high powered desktop with large screen.

It is complete **** on a low powered netbook with small screen because its frickin slow and the unhideable (and for my usage pattern completely useless) bars eat valuable screenspace.
A shame it seems to be made for these kind of devices.

I'll probably try it but am also quite sure I won't like it on the desktop either.

[cgroza]

So, after an eternity of brown, they switch to black and purple. And after just 2 releases they switch again?
Not fair, they kept the boring stuff until Lucid and now when they have something what I like they switch it?

[NightwishFan]

Unity is going to have a different appearance designed for the desktop and they are going to base it on Compiz and not Mutter. So... :)

[Half-Left]

No, I think it will just be the gnome-panel as it is now. The Gnome-Shell does not use the gnome-panel at all, so it will not need a rewrite.

Yeah. At the moment it's Clutter and themed using CSS. No options as yet.

[NightwishFan]

Gnome 3 is not the gnome-shell. Bits of Gnome 3 are already used in Ubuntu, such as a new configuration framework and zeitgeist.

[moviemaniac]

Oh yeah and of course some kind of vague threat "...im leaving this for this..".

No threat, just a statement, that's all. I still love Ubuntu, the idea behind it and everything but some changes are a bit, well, over the top (I constantly get asked by newbies why the icons to minimize, close etc. are on the left hand side - yes, that old discussion again). My main concern is thet instead of using a well-maintained, cross-distibution window manager we'll be swithing to an ubuntu-only default interface with much less manpower behind it, much less testing and (for now) no backing by other distros. Why do we have to reinvent the wheel instead of working together with existing wheelmakers?


Yes, Debian is awesome. If you feel more comfortable using it, more power to you. If it turns out that Ubuntu is unusable perhaps I will join you. I can almost certainly say ill still be using Ubuntu when 11.04 comes around.

Ubuntu won't be unusable. At least not for most of us. But I'm also thinking about people wanting to switch over. Unity in its current state is more complex to understand and use than the standard Gnome-Desktop we know and use today. Instead of making things easier, they might become more complicated and even more unknown to people trying Ubuntu for their first time. What's the point in wanting to go one's own way just for the sake of going one's own way?

The thing I hate most is that the thing is gonna be Compiz-based. Has anyone of you had to rely on the proprietary radeon-driver in the last year? Have you tried running Compiz and OpenGL-programs like Google Earth at the same time? Have you seen all the graphical glitches due to the driver not supporting DRI2? (Yeah, I know, it's the driver's fault, but many people (have to) use it.) What about people buying Radeon 6000-series graphics cards now? Will they have to see these graphical problems on a daily basis? What about people using graphics cards that also don't have the necessary drivers (but can run non-compositing window-managers just fine)? Do we want to force them to move to Xubuntu (not everybody using Ubuntu has the knowledge to switch back to Mutter, many people expect Ubuntu to "just work"). I've got the feeling this switch is going to break more than it's gonna do good. But, hey, I'm open to positive surprises ;)

Anyway, I'll shut up now, I get the feeling criticism is not wanted anymore.

[NightwishFan]

Why did you not just say "I am afraid we will not have enough man power to make a well supported and usable desktop" then. You are allowed to have an opinion. I was in the wrong for being so aggressive and so I apologize. I am sure you said what you meant to begin with.

I just get irritated Canonical twitches their nose and the vocal minority have to have a FUD storm. I am tired of hearing folks be pessimistic about the future of either Ubuntu or free software in general when it is within our grasp to go do it and make it work ourselves.

Forgive me for assuming I can doubt an opinion. Nothing is gained from doing so and I should not have. Constructive criticism, I back. Just not the other kind.

[cariboo]

Merged yet another errant thread about the Unity announcement.

[moviemaniac]

Well, my first post probably wasn't the nicest or most explaining either and I should apologize for that too.

This is actually the first time I am pessimistic because I'm thinking about all the machines we're gonna have trouble with running a compiz-based window manager and all the people I'd have more trouble with familiarizing them with a totally new interface. I just hope Mark and all the people behind Unity figure a way out to make Unity as easy to use as the current Gnome-Desktop and figure out the technical problems involved (though I doubt they can influence all the guys programming the drivers for the graphics cards so Unity runs on all the hardware mutter currently runs on).

[moviemaniac]

Merged yet another errant thread about the Unity announcement.
Sorry, I only browse and read the development board - I figured that'd be the place to talk about it since it's obviously Natty-related...

[NightwishFan]

For now, Gnome 2 will be available, so I suppose we will have to worry about that when it comes down to it. I for one would like but do not expect and elegant solution.

[cariboo]

No threat, just a statement, that's all. I still love Ubuntu, the idea behind it and everything but some changes are a bit, well, over the top (I constantly get asked by newbies why the icons to minimize, close etc. are on the left hand side - yes, that old discussion again). My main concern is thet instead of using a well-maintained, cross-distibution window manager we'll be swithing to an ubuntu-only default interface with much less manpower behind it, much less testing and (for now) no backing by other distros. Why do we have to reinvent the wheel instead of working together with existing wheelmakers?



Ubuntu won't be unusable. At least not for most of us. But I'm also thinking about people wanting to switch over. Unity in its current state is more complex to understand and use than the standard Gnome-Desktop we know and use today. Instead of making things easier, they might become more complicated and even more unknown to people trying Ubuntu for their first time. What's the point in wanting to go one's own way just for the sake of going one's own way?

The thing I hate most is that the thing is gonna be Compiz-based. Has anyone of you had to rely on the proprietary radeon-driver in the last year? Have you tried running Compiz and OpenGL-programs like Google Earth at the same time? Have you seen all the graphical glitches due to the driver not supporting DRI2? (Yeah, I know, it's the driver's fault, but many people (have to) use it.) What about people buying Radeon 6000-series graphics cards now? Will they have to see these graphical problems on a daily basis? What about people using graphics cards that also don't have the necessary drivers (but can run non-compositing window-managers just fine)? Do we want to force them to move to Xubuntu (not everybody using Ubuntu has the knowledge to switch back to Mutter, many people expect Ubuntu to "just work"). I've got the feeling this switch is going to break more than it's gonna do good. But, hey, I'm open to positive surprises ;)

Anyway, I'll shut up now, I get the feeling criticism is not wanted anymore.

I don't know if you missed the part about where Unity will check to see if the system is capable of running it, and if not will drop back to the 2 panel desktop, there will also be a choice in the session menu, so that you can select what desktop you want to use, even gnome shell.

[MasterNetra]

Its not much of a option for me atm. My system won't even run Gnome Shell. Graphics Card doesn't want to do the 3D Acceration I guess. All I know is when I try to run the lastest Gnome Shell it loads but completely freezes the GUI. No mouse, no visual activies, no nothing. I usually have to switch into a console mode and reboot.

If Ubuntu does decide to go shell I hope it will also auto-detect wither or not to actually use it or to drop back onto 2.x should the graphics card not be able to use it. Gnome should of never had shell depend on 3D Acceleration.

[exploder]

I don't know if you missed the part about where Unity will check to see if the system is capable of running it, and if not will drop back to the 2 panel desktop, there will also be a choice in the session menu, so that you can select what desktop you want to use, even gnome shell.

Now this doesn't sound so bad. :)

[whoop]

Unity as default, I find this very interesting.

The Ubuntu distribution claims to be all about the desktop experience... It hasn't really been that innovative on the desktop yet, now it could certainly be living up to it's claims..

I'll probably won't be using it as I'm not using Ubuntu as much as I used to, but at least now I could see some real purpose for the distribution again.

[MasterNetra]

Now this doesn't sound so bad. :)

+1 I posted my previous post too soon then. If it will check wither or not the system can run it and/or gnome-shell and will drop back to the old 2 panel if it can't then hey, I'm for it.

[NightwishFan]

Its not much of a option for me atm. My system won't even run Gnome Shell. Graphics Card doesn't want to do the 3D Acceration I guess. All I know is when I try to run the lastest Gnome Shell it loads but completely freezes the GUI. No mouse, no visual activies, no nothing. I usually have to switch into a console mode and reboot.

If Ubuntu does decide to go shell I hope it will also auto-detect wither or not to actually use it or to drop back onto 2.x should the graphics card not be able to use it. Gnome should of never had shell depend on 3D Acceleration.

The new unity will be based on Compiz and not Mutter like the Gnome Shell. Also, being dropped to Gnome 2 is exactly the plan. If compiz works you are probably good to go.

[MasterNetra]

The new unity will be based on Compiz and not Mutter like the Gnome Shell. Also, being dropped to Gnome 2 is exactly the plan. If compiz works you are probably good to go.

lol then I'm golden.

[qamelian]

No nearly in the same way as GNOME 2, though I'm glad it's not because the current panel is pretty nasty in ways. I'm pretty sure you won't be able to have more than one panel, resize it or position it.
According to the myths page on gnome.org, you're wrong and the traditional gnome panels will be available exactly as they are now for those that choose not to use Gnome Shell. This was published quite some time ago and is still the plan.

[david stevenson]

Like many I have my doubts about unity on the desktop, but I am in favour of new developments so I would not like to complain about anything till it has had a chance to develop.

My 24" desktop is used very differently to my 9" netbook, although they are both used for the same apps. I may have several different apps open in both but on the netbook they are all full screen and I switch which is on top on the desktop some will be tiled and none full screen. I think the UI also needs to be customised to each environment, and not fixed to a single format.

I feel the ability to customise the desktop is the most important benefit of the open development, many people contribute alternative ideas and the end user can choose, as long as we do not loose that we can all have what we like.

David

[Half-Left]

According to the myths page on gnome.org, you're wrong and the traditional gnome panels will be available exactly as they are now for those that choose not to use Gnome Shell. This was published quite some time ago and is still the plan.

I'm talking about if you only use GNOME Shell, not what the distro provides.

[exploder]

The regular gnome desktop will still be available, just as it is now on Unity netbook edition. Even Gnome 3 will still have the panels.

Thanks, that is really good to hear. :) The default appearance in Maverick proved to me that Gnome can look very good and it gave Ubuntu a very positive image.

[exploder]

According to the myths page on gnome.org, you're wrong and the traditional gnome panels will be available exactly as they are now for those that choose not to use Gnome Shell. This was published quite some time ago and is still the plan.

qamelian, thanks for the info, you are the one that got me to like the two panel layout and give it a fair try.

[NightwishFan]

I'm talking about if you only use GNOME Shell, not what the distro provides.

The gnome shell replaces the gnome panel. They are not compatible. The Gnome project has stated that the gnome panel will be available during gnome 3. The gnome shell is only a part of gnome 3.

[Half-Left]

The gnome shell replaces the gnome panel. They are not compatible. The Gnome project has stated that the gnome panel will be available during gnome 3. The gnome shell is only a part of gnome 3.

I know that.

I'm talking about the panel in GNOME Shell.

[Zeedok]

The new unity will be based on Compiz and not Mutter like the Gnome Shell. Also, being dropped to Gnome 2 is exactly the plan. If compiz works you are probably good to go.

Forgive my ignorance. I understand from Mark Shuttleworth's announcement that the Unity shipped with 11.04 will run compiz rather than Mutter.

I just installed Unity from the repos and found that it is running Mutter.

I presume there is a switch to Compiz planned -- is that correct? If so, when? I like the Unity interface, but also like my desktop effects!!

[NightwishFan]

Compiz and Mutter are not compatible, they do the same thing. The Unity in 10.10 uses Mutter. The plan is (I am not on the inside so I do not know the details) that in the next six months this will take place.

[whoop]

Another thing I haven't tested, will it run as a virtual guest on common hyper-visors or virtualizers?

[Zeedok]

Compiz and Mutter are not compatible, they do the same thing. The Unity in 10.10 uses Mutter. The plan is (I am not on the inside so I do not know the details) that in the next six months this will take place.

Wow -- hope the transition is smooth after already making the announcement!!

[cariboo]

Forgive my ignorance. I understand from Mark Shuttleworth's announcement that the Unity shipped with 11.04 will run compiz rather than Mutter.

I just installed Unity from the repos and found that it is running Mutter.

I presume there is a switch to Compiz planned -- is that correct? If so, when? I like the Unity interface, but also like my desktop effects!!

The announcement was only made this morning, nothing will start happening until UDS-N is over.

If you are interested in watching the process, I'd suggest waiting a couple of weeks, then install natty.

[Half-Left]

Mutter needs more work because it is young. It will get plugins for effects but as usual, Canonical let everyone else do all the hard work and pick the easiest route with Compiz.


All they need to do is make Compiz work with Unity, rather than make a modern window manager better.

[zekopeko]

Mutter needs more work because it is young. It will get plugins for effects but as usual, Canonical let everyone else do all the hard work and pick the easiest route with Compiz.


All they need to do is make Compiz work with Unity, rather than make a modern window manager better.

Read and learn before you speak.

http://njpatel.blogspot.com/2010/10/marks-keynote-at-uds-spoke-about-one-of.html

You are also assuming that Compiz isn't a modern window manager which simply shows your utter lack of general knowledge on the subject.

[Half-Left]

Read and learn before you speak.

http://njpatel.blogspot.com/2010/10/marks-keynote-at-uds-spoke-about-one-of.html

You are also assuming that Compiz isn't a modern window manager which simply shows your utter lack of general knowledge on the subject.

That says nothing. Compiz does compositing with cool effects which was a stand in for metacity. Plugins toys don't make it modern.

[Speed_arg]

That says nothing. Compiz does compositing with cool effects which was a stand in for metacity. Plugins toys don't make it modern.

Compiz works well, its fast. Mutter is very slow and REALLY buggy. Mutter AFAIK has nothing compiz doesn't. Simple choice.

[Half-Left]

Compiz works well, its fast. Mutter is very slow and REALLY buggy. Mutter AFAIK has nothing compiz doesn't. Simple choice.

Mutter is much younger, it's not even out of the blocks yet with GNOME3. Hacks work well, they don't fix the root problem.

If it was a simple choice, they would have used it in Unity from the start.

[qamelian]

qamelian, thanks for the info, you are the one that got me to like the two panel layout and give it a fair try.
Don't say that too loud. I'm a very poor role model! ;)

[akand074]

Unity is cool for a netbook, but I wouldn't want it on a desktop. I barely even use my menu at all, Unity would just be a nuisance. But I mean, they are just desktop environments. I don't have to really use Kubuntu if I wanted KDE, or Xubuntu if I wanted XFCE, I could just install it on my system right now and switch between either one.. or uninstall the one I don't want. I'd be surprised if Canonical dropped Gnome for their default OS. But even if they did, it wouldn't really change much, I would just install the DE I want, I customize gnome any ways to the way I like it too.

[zekopeko]

That says nothing. Compiz does compositing with cool effects which was a stand in for metacity. Plugins toys don't make it modern.

Double standards much? Mutter also supports plugins. Heck the whole Gnome-Shell overlay/panel thing is a mutter plugin.

You haven't provided one objective criteria for what makes a window manager modern. Well ok except being buggy and new. I guess by that standard Compiz 0.9 series is only 1/3 modern window manager since it was re-written to C++. It still missing a new name and bug-iness.

Comments also provide a more straightforward answer why Compiz instead of fixing mutter:
http://njpatel.blogspot.com/2010/10/marks-keynote-at-uds-spoke-about-one-of.html?showComment=1288028296256#c544432212641232 7285

[Half-Left]

Compiz still doesn't support Anti-aliasing and for a compositing manager in the 21st century, that's bad. Look at kwin if you want a modern window manager.

[NCLI]

Titlebar button positions, Volume applet, applets in general. In the end, they're what they wanted.
-Ubuntu Software Store: Renamed to Ubuntu Software Center due to user feedback

-"Sent from my Ubuntu" signature in Evolution by default: Dropped due to user feedback.

-Default search engine changed to Yahoo: Dropped due to user feedback.

I'm tired of hearing people accuse Canonical of being facist and close-minded, when they're actually very quick to react when the feedback to an idea is very bad.There are a few exceptions, like the ones you mentioned, but they're part of the overall design vision, which probably won't be fully realized 'till 12.04, so I understand why they won't budge on those subjects.

Also, while the reaction to the issues I mention were pretty much all negative, the button issue was ~50/50 in every poll I've seen, and I haven't heard any complaints about the change to the applets, care to provide a source for your claim that changing them was an unpopular decision?

Compiz still doesn't support Anti-aliasing and for a compositing manager in the 21st century, that's bad. Look at kwin if you want a modern window manager.
With Canonical throwing its weight behind a project that we all thought would die when Gnome Shell arrived, I think we can expect to see many improvements in Compiz.

[Half-Left]

-Ubuntu Software Store: Renamed to Ubuntu Software Center due to user feedback

-"Sent from my Ubuntu" signature in Evolution by default: Dropped due to user feedback.

-Default search engine changed to Yahoo: Dropped due to user feedback.

I'm tired of hearing people accuse Canonical of being facist and close-minded, when they're actually very quick to react when the feedback to an idea is very bad.There are a few exceptions, like the ones you mentioned, but they're part of the overall design vision, which probably won't be fully realized 'till 12.04, so I understand why they won't budge on those subjects.

Also, I haven't heard much complaining about the applets. Do you have a source for changing them being an unpopular decision? The buttons were a hot issue once, but really, apart from the occasional newbie question, there aren't any complaints that I've noticed.

I said Canonical like to do there own thing, I didn't say they were close minded and did everything their own way.

Yes the applets, how they're joined together, the volume applet button theme was contentious.

[NCLI]

I said Canonical like to do there own thing, I didn't say they were close minded and did everything their own way.
You compared them to the Gnome Shell devs, who are notorious for being very unwilling to change their design.

Yes the applets, how they're joined together, the volume applet button theme was contentious.
They changed the theme, and I haven't heard many people other than you complain about them being joined together. Your point?

[zekopeko]

Compiz still doesn't support Anti-aliasing and for a compositing manager in the 21st century, that's bad. Look at kwin if you want a modern window manager.

Mutter also doesn't support AA so your point is moot. So by your standard Mutter isn't a modern window manager. :popcorn:

Btw what makes Kwin a modern window manager? Looking a Kwin 4.5 screenshots I failed to notice any AA on decoration corners.

[Half-Left]

You compared them to the Gnome Shell devs, who are notorious for being very unwilling to change their design. Yes the applets, how they're joined together, the volume applet button theme was contentious.
They changed the theme, and I haven't heard many people other than you complain about them being joined together. Your point

I didn't compare them to no one. You made that assumption.

My point is they stuck to their design for the volume applet player button design and the album art text missing text, which people didn't like much.

Look at the comments from users, it was a contentious design.
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/08/meerkats-new-sound-indicator-changes-on-the-way/

[NCLI]

I didn't compare them to no one. You made that assumption.
How is this not comparing them:


And the gnome-shell developers are a bit hard to communicate with. They are preoccupied with their ideas and have been quite resistant to valid feedback in the past. I believe canonical first tried to work with them but found it impossible.
What's new? Canonical stick by their own design ideas in just the same way.


My point is they stuck to their design for the volume applet player button design and the album art text missing text, which people didn't like much.
It's true that they stuck to the text design(Which I don't like either, and I find it quite likely that it will change in 11.04.), but they actually changed the buttons.

[splicerr]

I'm not a fan of Unity nor gnome-shell, but if they're going to go with Unity then ditching Mutter for Compiz is probably a good idea. In fact they should have done it from the beginning. I'm sorry to say but Mutter is really buggy, slow and eats too many cpu cycles. Compiz on the other hand has really good performance and probably best driver/hardware compatibility of all of the composting window managers out there. So the choice is easy.

[Sophont]

The poll is missing an important option:
x Improve Gnome 2.x - neither GS nor Unity

Whether the window buttons are on the left or right side doesn't bother me much. And either way is easily changed if needed.

But I hate the global menu. It's ok for a Netbook. A netbook is a niche device with serious restrictions where you rarely will want to run more than one application which will almost always be maximized.
On a full desktop system I run multiple applications and most of them are rarely maximized. Every time I sit at a Mac I get annoyed by its stupid global menu.

And Gnome Shell has some cute ideas - but it focuses a lot of effort on stuff that is of lesser importance to me (managing multiple workspaces) while being incompatible with Compiz.

What Gnome needs is some improvements in the toolkit. Tweaking the notifications and cleaning up the tray area - that's all good work.

Do I really have to look for another distribution? :-(

[GabrielYYZ]

i honestly don't worry about unity or gnome shell, i had a look at both last night and, i have to say, my opinion about both changed for the better. if either one is used, all i can hope is that they're themeable (even a little bit, until everything gets sorted out.)

as long as ubuntu doesn't get "XP'd" or "vista'd" i'll be happy and i'll certainly not throw a fit if a minuscule thing in either DE doesn't adapt to me, i'll be happy to adapt myself to it.

[frito]

I really like the idea of using unity as the default environment in Ubuntu.

A lot of people really just use their computer like a netbook, a few applications (my parents and gf for example).

Im a power user and I wanted to try using the 10.10 Unity release on my desktop because it was simple and looks great but it didn't work the way i wanted so i just went back to normal Gnome.
The Ubuntu community does a great job and Im sure this would be amazing.

[NCLI]

The poll is missing an important option:
x Improve Gnome 2.x - neither GS nor Unity

Whether the window buttons are on the left or right side doesn't bother me much. And either way is easily changed if needed.

But I hate the global menu. It's ok for a Netbook. A netbook is a niche device with serious restrictions where you rarely will want to run more than one application which will almost always be maximized.
On a full desktop system I run multiple applications and most of them are rarely maximized. Every time I sit at a Mac I get annoyed by its stupid global menu.
Accoring to the bluprint, there will be no Global Menu in the desktop version of Unity.


Do I really have to look for another distribution? :-(
No, just choose Gnome 2.XX instead of Shell/Unity when you log in.

[david.rahrer]

For certain uses, Unity is an interesting development -- netbooks, simple interface for narrow use, computer illiterate, etc. As a specialty choice, it would be fine. But I am most productive on Gnome, I understand it, and I like it. I chose Ubuntu partly on that basis and only in the last couple of versions could I say it has really matured to a level I can bring to local businesses and non-profits.

Moving to that Unity thing would be a show-stopper for me and I've been using Ubuntu since Nov 2006. If 3D and games are the issue, split off an entertainment version, but keep the main Gnome Ubuntu for the rest of us to get our work done. The interface is clean, people understand it and I can finally make a business out of providing it as a replacement for proprietary crap.

This feels a lot like change for change sake, and it's really sad to me.

[cariboo]

For certain uses, Unity is an interesting development -- netbooks, simple interface for narrow use, computer illiterate, etc. As a specialty choice, it would be fine. But I am most productive on Gnome, I understand it, and I like it. I chose Ubuntu partly on that basis and only in the last couple of versions could I say it has really matured to a level I can bring to local businesses and non-profits.

Moving to that Unity thing would be a show-stopper for me and I've been using Ubuntu since Nov 2006. If 3D and games are the issue, split off an entertainment version, but keep the main Gnome Ubuntu for the rest of us to get our work done. The interface is clean, people understand it and I can finally make a business out of providing it as a replacement for proprietary crap.

This feels a lot like change for change sake, and it's really sad to me.

I would suggest you wait until unity for the desktop is released before saying it is a show stopper. I've been using the netbook version since it was first released in May. It has come a long way in less than 6 months. As it is now, unity has 4 work spaces, that I use fairly often, admittedly with only 1Gb of ram it goes into swap fairly quickly when using all 4, but the devs have said they are going to make better use of the hardware, so that shouldn't be much of a problem by the time 12.04 is released.

As for your last line, didn't we see that a lot when the buttons were moved? Now we rarely see any mention of it.

[Khakilang]

But than again I prefer something that works all the time. If Ubuntu decide to switch to Unity, I am sure they have good reason for it. And beside if I don't like it I can always switch to Gnome which I prefer not to because of my lack of skills not because it lack features.. That is the good thing about Linux. Its customizable.

[Ahava591]

I don't mean to look rude; but this is all just kinda' boring to me at the moment. I pick whatever works for me.

[david.rahrer]

As for your last line, didn't we see that a lot when the buttons were moved? Now we rarely see any mention of it.

I'm not sure that's entirely fair to say, since moving the buttons back (at least at the moment) is trivial. I tried using the new left arrangement for a few days but have been back to the original setup since. It was particularly irritating since I must use the standard arrangement on client systems (Windows) and then come back to the odd-ball arrangement on my own stuff.

No matter what your opinion of Unity, I think changing the default interface is a bit more dramatic than moving the buttons over ;)

I do realize that there is still plenty of choice, and I can even move to another distro, but I have a lot of time invested in Ubuntu. I really do enjoy using it, more than I ever enjoyed Windows. It has the simplicity of a Mac without all the idiosyncrasies and ugly (to me) bling. Even if I can install Gnome at my option, I have to believe that the default interface will get the bulk of the attention -- and the problem solving.

I apologize for venting some, but I rarely do so. But please let's not be so quick to put all objections to a change in the "old timer doesn't like any change" category, or "this happens every time." I am passionate about Ubuntu precisely because I have come to appreciate it and the philosophy behind FOSS. But it's hard to share that with others when they feel like they are constantly beta testing their OS. I might enjoy that but most average users don't (and business users despise it).

[psusi]

That spec mentions taking everything back that makes Unity, well, Unity. So why bother? Just stick with the current gnome shell if you like that, rather than make Unity more like it.

I can't wait for gnome-shell on my desktop, and unity for my netbook. The single menu thing annoyed me about macs for the longest time, then I ran Ubuntu netbook edition for a while on my netbook and got used to it quickly. It just makes more sense. How often do you really position two different windows on the screen so you can see both? If you are like me, it ins't very often. Most of the time it's just a clutter that wastes a lot of space. Maximized windows with a single menu makes much better use of space. When you want to see multiple windows at once, that's what the hot corner is for that zooms out to show all of them to you at once, then you zoom in to focus and get some work done.

My web browser and text editor are always maximized. It hardly makes sense to run them otherwise. Most other windows open and only use part of the screen by default, and that's the only reason they aren't maximized -- because they start off that way and there isn't any good reason to change it. But there isn't any good reason NOT to maximize them either, since the rest of the screen is wasted while I'm focused on that window.

[Screwdriver0815]

so... first of all, now it makes perfect sense, why Canonical does not contribute to Gnome. They were and are working on their own DE. So instead doing some influence on Gnome, being part of the big game, called Linux and open source, we again play the role of the "better child" which has its own toys --> "my toys are better than yours"...

2nd, Unity relies on Compiz. That´s cool! especially for the folks who still have graphics cards where there is no 3d-capable driver available.
Of course, I read "when Unity detects that the graphics card resp. the driver is not capable in compositing, it switches back to Gnome" --> really? Sure? Does, or will it work under all circumstances?
I doubt it.

Looking at some screenshots and descriptions of Unity, you need a lot more mouseclicks to start an application than with Gnome, there is no context menu for the righthand mousebutton, you can not browse the filesystem like you are used to, nothing tells you about running applications and open windows, instead of a small arrow-sign in the lefthand panel...

when one says "just install Gnome then"... No, of course not! This is the Microsoft Windows style: some important things don´t work, then I find a workaround... even when I have to install a whole new DE to fix this. Nope, this is Linux, not a kindergarten-OS.

I really look forward to this. 2011 will be the year of the Linux Desktop. :rolleyes:

[magneze]

Looking at some screenshots and descriptions of Unity, you need a lot more mouseclicks to start an application than with Gnome, there is no context menu for the righthand mousebutton, you can not browse the filesystem like you are used to, nothing tells you about running applications and open windows, instead of a small arrow-sign in the lefthand panel... You probably ought to use it before posting all that.

[Oxwivi]

The poll is missing an important option:
x Improve Gnome 2.x - neither GS nor Unity
Maybe I should've included improvement part, but not using GNOME literally means anything other than what GNOME has to offer, inclusive of GS and Unity.

[cariboo]

I have to agree with magneze, all the available applications are at most 2 clicks away. I agree file management is a little tougher, nautilus is 3 clicks away instead of 2.

From the sounds of Marks's keynote speech, a lot of research has gone into the design of the interface, allowing people that have never used Ubuntu to use and then give their opinions of the interface. I'm a fan of Unity as you can probably tell.

[Lucradia]

I might go the 'ol openbox route then to be honest.

It actually isn't bad, when you make it awesome (http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=50703).

[Elfy]

I'm a fan of Unity as you can probably tell.

Mark obviously is as well I assume :)

I'm not ...

I'll wait and give it a look and an honest go but it could be the straw that broke the camel's back - at the moment I assume it will be easy enough to install a normal desktop, time will tell.

To be frank if I wanted my desktop to look (as default) like a netbook then I'd buy a netbook.

As it stands I have this great thick thing stuck on the left of the monitor that I can't change - not at all as pleasant or unobtrusive as one panel set to the minimum height (17 pixels) stuck on the bottom of the monitor.

Now whether the proposed unity interface is significantly different to the maverick one I do not know.

[Yeti can't ski]

it could be the straw that broke the camel's back - at the moment I assume it will be easy enough to install a normal desktop, time will tell.

To be frank if I wanted my desktop to look (as default) like a netbook then I'd buy a netbook.

I couldn't agree more. The possibility of seamlessly changing DE’s will be critical here. I hope Ubuntu will not become so integrated with Unity that dozens of fixes will be necessary only to get rid of it.

For the rest, the beauty of FLOSS is that everyone is free to do as it pleases and take her/his own road, but this is certainly a slap in the face of Gnome.

For a company already struggling with a reputation of not contributing enough upstream and free-riding the credit of other projects, this decision may send a very negative message for Canonical.

Anyone knows what will happen to Kubuntu?

Would it be too complex to maintain a "Gnobuntu" (i.e. Ubuntu shipping natively with Gnome or Gnome Shell)?

[Pedric]

Similar to Gnome Shell, Unity relies on composition. Composition window managers are totally unusable with fglrx. Fglrx is required with ATI GPUs as the open source drivers do not support power management.

The default shell in Ubuntu should work without composition! A shell that doesn't should not be made default...

[Half-Left]

Mutter also doesn't support AA so your point is moot. So by your standard Mutter isn't a modern window manager. :popcorn:

Btw what makes Kwin a modern window manager? Looking a Kwin 4.5 screenshots I failed to notice any AA on decoration corners.

Actually it's being worked on in Mutter.

GNOME devs making THEIR own window manager to integrate into THEIR own DE, who of thought it? Compiz was never an option. You need to step away from the bling and try and understand that things don't look as they appear to be.

kwin | Compiz

[mainerror]

You are lacking the option Gnome 2.x as I'm not intending to use anything different than whats on 10.04.

[matthewbpt]

If Ubuntu does end up having Unity by default I will probably switch to Arch/Fedora... maybe even switch to Kubuntu. Maybe I'll feel differently when Unity has matured, we'll see.

[Oxwivi]

You are lacking the option Gnome 2.x as I'm not intending to use anything different than whats on 10.04.
GNOME Shell represents the normal GNOME interface, inclusive of GNOME 2.x.

[ShagzModo]

I hear Ubuntu will drop Gnome desktop in 11.04 release for Unity.
Incredible, don't really know what to think of this.
I find the unity GUI somewhat childish, and was really looking forward to Gnome 3.0 release. sudo apt-get install gnome will do the trick i know.... but still, i fell in love with Gnome in 2005.

I do office applications a bit of blogging, CRM ETC, spam firewall cofiguration editing, SSL VPN management etc from my laptop

I am thinking of leaving Ubuntu for what it is and compile Gentoo completely from scratch on my next install.

[Arex Bawrin]

“Unity is a shell for GNOME – it may not be GNOME-Shell but it is a shell for GNOME.”

Can someone please translate I'm a noob...

[Oxwivi]

I hear Ubuntu will drop Gnome desktop in 11.04 release for Unity.
Incredible, don't really know what to think of this.
I find the unity GUI somewhat childish, and was really looking forward to Gnome 3.0 release. sudo apt-get install gnome will do the trick i know.... but still, i fell in love with Gnome in 2005.

I do office applications a bit of blogging, CRM ETC, spam firewall cofiguration editing, SSL VPN management etc from my laptop

I am thinking of leaving Ubuntu for what it is and compile Gentoo completely from scratch on my next install.
Ubuntu is a GNOME distribution, and they're not dropping GNOME, but the default GNOME Shell in favour of Unity. Please get your facts right.

[sarin_cv]

http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3909806/Ubuntu-Aims-for-Linux-Desktop-Unity.htm

:(

[Karpah]

Having been 'fortunate' enough to have 10.10 forced on me temporarily due to a hard drive failure, I will say this - I think Unity is abhorrent. Even on my netbook.

Ubuntu is supposed to be all about ease of use, and Unity flies in the face of that in my opinion.

[bash]

Since a lot of people seem to get this wrong, in simple terms:

Unity != GNOME

Unity ≈ gnome-panel + metacity

So all Ubuntu is dropping is gnome-panel and metacity. All the rest will remain the same and use just the same parts of the GNOME stack as now.

[kaldor]

Good move if they can make it work. If they release 11.04 in the shape Unity is now, it'll be a major failure.

[XubuRoxMySox]

I don't think they really intend to "drop" Gnome altogether, and they'll certainly have a "Gnombuntu" flavor (like the Xu/Ku/and Lu 'buntus) to add to the family even if they actually do make Unity the default.

"Childish" simplicity and ease of use is the future, at least for young users because look at all of the cellphones and music players and other "cutesy" handheld devices that all the kids are using. To make a 'puter as sweet and simple as all of those is the goal of the Unity desktop, and I think that has been Canonical's goal from the start. When Gnome served that purpose, Canonical used it. When Gnome stops serving that purpose as well as Unity or any other desktop does, the default desktop should be whatever serves that overall purpose: Simplicity and ease of use. For me it's Xfce for now because it's kinda like "Gnome Lite" but I can easily configure it in mere minutes for the "childish" cuteness and simplicity I prefer. When I grow up or my tastes change I can change settings and wallpapers and stuff to a "more mature" look and feel, or switch to a different desktop environment. It's Linux! Infinitely customizable!

-Robin

[NightwishFan]

Unity is on an initial release, yes it is rough. It is being redesigned for the desktop, frankly I can't wait to see what they come up with. :)

[NightwishFan]

Unity shell will just be a new default interface for Gnome. A regular gnome session will be available without a remix I am sure. (For virtual users and folks without 3d support).

[bowens44]

I found unity to be completely unusable on my netbook and certainly see no reason to think that it would improve the desktop user experiennce.

To me it seems like a dumbing down of the interface.

[Oxwivi]

Yes, there's no reason it will improve user experience if they don't improve Unity. Shall we wait and see how it turns out first?

[NightwishFan]

It is being redesigned to the desktop. I also agree that Unity was a bit early. A great idea, and it looked awesome, but a bit rough around the edges. Who knows, in the next 6 months it might be pretty cool. As always it is optional, just planned to be default. Planned, if it does not work out it will not be shipped.

[dmizer]

Edited thread title to accurately reflect the proposed change.

[Pedric]

https://launchpad.net/unity wrote:
The Unity desktop experience is designed to allow for multiple implementations, currently, Unity consists of a Clutter-based visual interface only, which is heavily dependent on OpenGL.

The thing that is missing is a working, fully functional non-OpenGL, non-compositing implementation for the millions of users on weak hardware/driver stacks such as Intel (slow hw mostly, and some bad drivers) and AMD/Ati (bad drivers). Before that happens, I'd consider Unity (and Gnome Shell, as a matter of fact) merely a case study or prototype.

[Dragonbite]

What I am not so keen about, if my thinking is correct, is that this is one more step Ubuntu is taking away from the open source "main".

Unity may be based on Gnome-shell but it is essentially a fork and so the only place to get it, and the only people to maintain it, is Ubuntu/Canonical.

That is not to say this won't be good, or beneficial. It also doesn't mean that it won't help by creating competition for Gnome. I just am not sure about the number of moves by Ubuntu to shoulder their own downstream projects.

[Oxwivi]

Then someone should make a copy of all the changes as long as it's open. :P

[zekopeko]

Unity may be based on Gnome-shell but it is essentially a fork and so the only place to get it, and the only people to maintain it, is Ubuntu/Canonical.

AFAIK Unity doesn't share anything with Gnome Shell. Particularity code in the context of forking. They are using Mutter for window management in the current 10.10 version but that is being replaced with Compiz.

[zekopeko]

The thing that is missing is a working, fully functional non-OpenGL, non-compositing implementation for the millions of users on weak hardware/driver stacks such as Intel (slow hw mostly, and some bad drivers) and AMD/Ati (bad drivers). Before that happens, I'd consider Unity (and Gnome Shell, as a matter of fact) merely a case study or prototype.

This isn't correct. If your drivers suck then you will get the usual 2 panel Gnome.

[Dragonbite]

AFAIK Unity doesn't share anything with Gnome Shell. Particularity code in the context of forking. They are using Mutter for window management in the current 10.10 version but that is being replaced with Compiz.

That does sound right, thanks for correcting me. It is the initial design that is similar.

Done right, which I think they have the ability to, it can help enhance the Linux look and feel, but I am hesitant on their "go it alone".

[Pedric]

This isn't correct. If your drivers suck then you will get the usual 2 panel Gnome.

That is a best case scenario. In the worst case (as has already happened to me because Compiz is enabled by default on the desktop), all you see is a whitescreen of death (hint: memorize Alt-SysReq-REISUB just in case). Yes, drivers can be THAT bad.

[Johnsie]

I just downloaded unity for 10.04 to see what it was like. Unity makes a meal of of just opening an application. I have to move a mouse all over the screen just to open an program????????????

[Half-Left]

GNOME are not responsible for sucky drivers. It's 2010 and window managers should really be using 3D now and at the very least XRender.

At the end of the day, developers don't want to be held back by such issues and why KDE4 didn't want to wait for the Linux graphics' driver stack to catch up, GNOME Shell are doing the same. They also cannot stand around forever doing workarounds like Compiz does.

[skrimpy]

How often do you really position two different windows on the screen so you can see both? If you are like me, it ins't very often. Most of the time it's just a clutter that wastes a lot of space. Maximized windows with a single menu makes much better use of space. When you want to see multiple windows at once, that's what the hot corner is for that zooms out to show all of them to you at once, then you zoom in to focus and get some work done.

My web browser and text editor are always maximized. It hardly makes sense to run them otherwise. Most other windows open and only use part of the screen by default, and that's the only reason they aren't maximized -- because they start off that way and there isn't any good reason to change it. But there isn't any good reason NOT to maximize them either, since the rest of the screen is wasted while I'm focused on that window.

It's silly to assume that everyone uses their computer just like you use yours. I frequently need windows side-by-side. When I'm coding a web page, I like to have the editor on one side of my screen and an open browser on the other so I can instantly refresh and see my changes without flipping windows around.

When I'm sending a mailing to my list, I like to have the text editor with the text on one side of the screen and my browser open to my mailing list service on the other so I can cut and paste without flipping windows around.

When I'm doing absolutely mindless stuff like re-uploading pages, I like having a movie playing on one side and the ftp client on the other...

People use computers in different ways, and zooming out to display all open programs doesn't always cut it.

On a netbook, maximized windows tend to be a rule of them (though I STILL don't like having a maximized terminal on my netbook)... but on a desktop where one is heavily coding or cutting and pasting, it's not always fun to have maximized windows.

I'm not a fan of the Unity sidebar or menu system, and I don't use my computer with only maximized windows. Maybe it makes sense for some, but not for some work tasks :/

[chek2fire]

Bad decision for canonical to create a new gnome fork. I think i will leave ubuntu after 5 years for opensuse or fedora.
And i think this is the end for ubuntu...

[skrimpy]

As for your last line, didn't we see that a lot when the buttons were moved? Now we rarely see any mention of it.

It's because everyone has used Ubuntu Tweak to put them back where they belong :KS

[NightwishFan]

:rolleyes: Bye.

Ubuntu starts with the letter "U" so I think I will leave Ubuntu for Fedora since "F" is earlier in the English alphabet.

[NightwishFan]

Actually people really do struggle with the notion they somehow belong on the right.

[Simian Man]

At the end of the day, developers don't want to be held back by such issues and why KDE4 didn't want to wait for the Linux graphics' driver stack to catch up, GNOME Shell are doing the same. They also cannot stand around forever doing workarounds like Compiz does.

It's a totally different situation because KDE provides the exact same interface whether you turn desktop effects on or not. It just looks better and smoother with the desktop effects on.

As I understand it, with Gnome Shell/Unity, if you don't have compositing, you will be left with a totally different interface (classic Gnome). I find that a bit puzzling that a user can install the same OS on two different machines and get a totally different system.

At least Ubuntu is finally at least trying to live up to its hype of bringing something new to Linux. I really hope it succeeds.

[Frogs Hair]

A ZDNET article says Mutter will be replaced with Compiz in Unity , so I'm a little more optimistic about Unity . I really don't care for the sidebar in Unity or the large space wasting menu in the Gnome Shell.

[Dragonbite]

Bad decision for canonical to create a new gnome fork. I think i will leave ubuntu after 5 years for opensuse or fedora.
And i think this is the end for ubuntu...

Yeah, I would wait 5 years before going to at least one of them (haven't been having luck with it lately, largely in part due to my Intel 855 video).

[Half-Left]

I think part of the agenda is that Canonical might not get such projects to agree to their copyright assignment.

More code they take ownership of the better for their future.

[-gabe-noob-]

I think if Unity is polished and heavily focused on this development cycle; as opposed to the side-project it was for meekrat it could have profound implications on Linux Desktop environments in the form of intuitiveness of use.

Unity, minus the bugs, seems like an overall very intuitive system that if you were to show to a person who has never used a computer before would be much easier to pick up than the current gnome setup, or any other setup for that matter.

So I have no problems with this direction of Ubuntu; and I like the fact that it singles ubuntu out more from other gnome/debian based distros.

I think this development of the Unity desktop will be very beneficial in the future, although the initial releases (11.04, 11.10) will probably have some major hiccups

[Yeti can't ski]

It's because everyone has used Ubuntu Tweak to put them back where they belong :KS

Yeesss indeed! :-)

[cariboo]

Gnome-shell will still be available in the repositories, for those that want to use it.

Consider Unity to be just another DM like XCFE and KDE.

[Delvien]

I am thinking of leaving Ubuntu for what it is and compile Gentoo completely from scratch on my next install.

Let us know how that goes...

:)

[SushiR]

When I first read about Unity being the default interface (on capeable hardware) I was all like "What the h***???". I don't like Unity at all, as shipped with 10.10. It's slow, unstable, unintuitive, lacks means to customization and eats screen space (which is limited on netbooks).

The community didn't approve the UNE release. Some may like it, but the masses made clear that it was a wrong decision (maybe the worst decision Ubuntu/Canonical/Shuttleworth ever made). So, what would YOU do, if all others hate your "newborn"? Probably fixing stuff and keeping quiet. You surely wouldn't announce your baby to be the next desktop thingy, would you? UNLESS you're a complete idiot...OR have something really tasty to put on the table. I go with the latter...

So, let's have a look...


Unity will drop mutter in favor of compiz which is probably the best news at all. You can have all the fancy and useful compiz stuff, which makes desktop and window handling easier.
Unity is a shell to GNOME (it's not replacing GNOME)
Zeitgeist will be deeply integrated and may enhance your desktop experience with some useful features*
Unity's interface will regard touchscreens and netbooks as well as desktops, so UNE may become redundant. Less maintenance for the Ubuntu teams.


I must admit that I'm pretty excited about the idea. I will watch the development very closely. The dev team doesn't have any time to waste...

[NCLI]

so... first of all, now it makes perfect sense, why Canonical does not contribute to Gnome. They were and are working on their own DE. So instead doing some influence on Gnome, being part of the big game, called Linux and open source, we again play the role of the "better child" which has its own toys --> "my toys are better than yours"...
Canonical does contribute. They don't contribute that much code, that is true, but they contribute in different ways, as Mark outlined in his blog a few weeks ago.

2nd, Unity relies on Compiz. That´s cool! especially for the folks who still have graphics cards where there is no 3d-capable driver available.
Of course, I read "when Unity detects that the graphics card resp. the driver is not capable in compositing, it switches back to Gnome" --> really? Sure? Does, or will it work under all circumstances?
I doubt it.
Ever heard about giving someone the benefit of doubt?

Looking at some screenshots and descriptions of Unity, you need a lot more mouseclicks to start an application than with Gnome, there is no context menu for the righthand mousebutton, you can not browse the filesystem like you are used to, nothing tells you about running applications and open windows, instead of a small arrow-sign in the lefthand panel...
You've clearly never used Unity... You only need at most two mouse-clicks to launch an application, usually only one.

Also, Nautilus is still included, and you're free to use it.


when one says "just install Gnome then"... No, of course not! This is the Microsoft Windows style: some important things don´t work, then I find a workaround... even when I have to install a whole new DE to fix this. Nope, this is Linux, not a kindergarten-OS.
GNOME will still be included in the default installation.


really look forward to this. 2011 will be the year of the Linux Desktop. :rolleyes:
At least it'll be better than 2010, which is apparently the year of people who state their misinformed opinions as fact.


Yes, there's no reason it will improve user experience if they don't improve Unity. Shall we wait and see how it turns out first?
/thread

[NightwishFan]

Thank you. *Hands over a :KS*

I like questions and curiosity and valid concerns however the whole spouting fud about this issue a lot have been doing is getting on my nerves.

[NCLI]

I think part of the agenda is that Canonical might not get such projects to agree to their copyright assignment.

More code they take ownership of the better for their future.
...their what?

[nlsthzn]

Just switched over from 10.04 to 10.10 today and I got to say if the polish that is going into Ubuntu continue it won't matter what they do with any future releases because it will be awesome :D

[skrimpy]

I like questions and curiosity and valid concerns however the whole spouting fud about this issue a lot have been doing is getting on my nerves.

And you think the people who are expressing valid concerns aren't having those issues get on their nerves?

The fact that I had a beautifully working netbook which I upgraded to a horrible interface, consequently making me blow it away to get back to something I could use, to get on my nerves.

Unity has a *lot* of problems on the netbook. It's locked down as far as looks go, which screams Microsoft and not open-source. You can't add anything to your panel/menu bar. That's just stupid and makes things like checking the weather much clunkier than it should be.

The sidebar gets hopelessly cluttered and it doesn't move smoothly. Maybe Compiz will iron this out... but I still can't easily move stuff around, get rid of certain buttons... and why can't I have a "one-click" Nautilus launcher?

Last time I checked, clicking "Documents" and seeing, well, *all my documents* was a pretty intuitive user experience. Unity keeps documents hidden away unless you've viewed them recently?? It's just bizarre and it's hard to navigate around when you're used to a simple drop-down that shows you recently used items and then *gasp* intuitively named folders leading *gasp* all of your documents, music, videos, etc.

Does it get on my nerves that it seems like nobody is listening to the valid issues (such as locking down the panels, a problem even in 10.4 that got even worse this go-round).

Nobody seems to care that using a web browser on the netbook now involves horizontal scrolling. That's something for your nerves we thought we left behind with 640px resolutions.

It also gets on my nerves that someone speaking up is grounds for a "They're innovating, so just be quiet. It's all about the newbie user experience and who cares about yours. Oh, and it's going to be based on Compiz..." which is the gist of what gets said when somebody voices a concern.

We all thought the 8-track was going to be an amazing innovation...

[NightwishFan]

Why not fully read someone's response before you pick a fight about it. Valid concerns, like one gentleman's thought that Unity would divide Gnome. That is a valid concern. FUD is when someone makes a huge post over how he is switching to something else because Canonical and Ubuntu are finished. That is all I said in the above post.

YES, Unity is rough now. I like it and still can not use it full time. The point is, they are planning to make some changes and perhaps make it work. Something that I personally would like to see. They also are not abandoning the efforts on Gnome 2 for users with incompatible hardware (a list I hope is growing short).

Now, feel free to misread my intentions in this post as well. My whole point was I am annoyed at folks spreading incorrect rumors. :/

Edit: I should mention I do not mean you. Having the interface not offer as much to you as it did in the past is a valid concern as well, not that I am the supreme judge on what is valid. :)

[SushiR]

The sidebar gets hopelessly cluttered and it doesn't move smoothly. Maybe Compiz will iron this out... but I still can't easily move stuff around, get rid of certain buttons... and why can't I have a "one-click" Nautilus launcher?

Do you really think they'll leave it as it is now? REALLY? And btw. you can have your one-click nautilus launcher in Unity just yet.


EDIT: And why is everybody ans his brother thinking that Unity is a REPLACEMENT for Gnome, while it isn't?

[NCLI]

And you think the people who are expressing valid concerns aren't having those issues get on their nerves?

The fact that I had a beautifully working netbook which I upgraded to a horrible interface, consequently making me blow it away to get back to something I could use, to get on my nerves.

Unity has a *lot* of problems on the netbook. It's locked down as far as looks go, which screams Microsoft and not open-source. You can't add anything to your panel/menu bar. That's just stupid and makes things like checking the weather much clunkier than it should be.

The sidebar gets hopelessly cluttered and it doesn't move smoothly. Maybe Compiz will iron this out... but I still can't easily move stuff around, get rid of certain buttons... and why can't I have a "one-click" Nautilus launcher?

Last time I checked, clicking "Documents" and seeing, well, *all my documents* was a pretty intuitive user experience. Unity keeps documents hidden away unless you've viewed them recently?? It's just bizarre and it's hard to navigate around when you're used to a simple drop-down that shows you recently used items and then *gasp* intuitively named folders leading *gasp* all of your documents, music, videos, etc.

Does it get on my nerves that it seems like nobody is listening to the valid issues (such as locking down the panels, a problem even in 10.4 that got even worse this go-round).

Nobody seems to care that using a web browser on the netbook now involves horizontal scrolling. That's something for your nerves we thought we left behind with 640px resolutions.

It also gets on my nerves that someone speaking up is grounds for a "They're innovating, so just be quiet. It's all about the newbie user experience and who cares about yours. Oh, and it's going to be based on Compiz..." which is the gist of what gets said when somebody voices a concern.

We all thought the 8-track was going to be an amazing innovation...
I repeat:

Yes, there's no reason it will improve user experience if they don't improve Unity. Shall we wait and see how it turns out first?
You're complaining about problems with the current Unity. That's all fine and dandy, but how about filing feature requests over at Launchpad instead, then wait and see how Unity turns out in 11.04.

[cariboo]

@skrimpy

I posted a link, way back here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=10024765&postcount=54) to the lead developers blog (http://njpatel.blogspot.com/), where he more or less admits they dropped the ball on some hardware platforms. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt and try it when natty is released to see if it works better on your system.

[cromat]

If I had to decide between the Shell and Unity, I'd pick Unity without hesitation, but I guess a lot of people would rather stick to the "old" two panel setup...

I personally prefer the Gnome setup however, I'm guess that like myself there are many of us who completely remove the bottom bar and replace it with a dock. I also customize the top bar so it is clean and functional for my purpose.

I think some of the fear is Unity will "force" users into that left hand bar and not allow for customization like gnome or kde does.

[magneze]

Nobody seems to care that using a web browser on the netbook now involves horizontal scrolling. That's something for your nerves we thought we left behind with 640px resolutions.Why does that happen? :confused:

[MacUntu]

I think some of the fear is Unity will "force" users into that left hand bar and not allow for customization like gnome or kde does.

Make it work then make it pretty. :P

It's like with GNOME'S Hell - currently not a lot of customization fun available. You can't even change the theme to Radiance without recompiling the whole thing. Hope this will be easier at a later time. :guitar:

http://img.xrmb2.net/296134.jpg (http://img.xrmb2.net/images/296535.png)

[Half-Left]

GNOME Shell just requires basic knowledge of CSS and you can change how it looks and play. It has great potential. it's much easier than doing a GTK theme and GS has best of both worlds.

[SushiR]

GNOME Shell just requires basic knowledge of CSS and you can change how it looks and play. It has great potential. it's much easier than doing a GTK theme and GS has best of both world.

What with those without basic knowledge of CSS?

[Half-Left]

What with those without basic knowledge of CSS?

Only takes 5-10 minutes to lean how to change a colour and the CSS file shows whats, what anyway. Quiet a few people got the hang of it in the GNOME Shell thread.

[slumbergod]

My preferred desktop environment is xfce but I was very surprised by the recent announcement regarding the next release.

I have a question perhaps someone can answer. I'm not really familiar with compiz nor unity but my understanding is that it will require 3D hardware support. Given that millions of users have basic laptops sporting basic onboard Intel graphics chipsets, what will the next release mean for these users?

Can you use compiz without 3D hardware acceleration or does this spell the end of Ubuntu for those with basic hardware?

[qamelian]

You've clearly never used Unity... You only need at most two mouse-clicks to launch an application, usually only one.

I am using it right now and you are clearly wrong. It took 4 mouse clicks to launch OOo Calc. One for the menu, one to select Office which took me to a screen completely unrelated to office apps with a text bar of app categories at the top, one to click on office in said text bar which finally takes me to my office apps, and one to at last launch Calc. It does exactly the same no matter which class of app I select. Exactly 4 clicks every time.

[Half-Left]

Compiz is purely a compositing window manager, which drops back to metacity if their is no 3D acceleration. I assume that Canonical will make it drop back to metacity in their Unity desktop version.

It's all rather vague at this time, so we'll have to wait.

[Johnsie]

You've clearly never used Unity... You only need at most two mouse-clicks to launch an application, usually only one.

Maybe the same number of clicks, but you have to move the mouse all over the screen just to open an application and that sucks.

Westerners read from left to right, that's why it's pretty stupid to have the sidebar on the left getting in the way. The first thing I do when I install Ubuntu is put the panels at the bottom of the screen so they wont get in my field of vision unless I need them.

[NightwishFan]

I will have to agree with the above. However the potential is there if it is smoothed out a bit.

Edit: above the above :)

[qamelian]

I will have to agree with the above. However the potential is there if it is smoothed out a bit.
Edit: above the above :)

I can see the potential as well for other users, but I can't see anything at the moment that would make me choose it over Gnome Shell. So far, I find Unity to be incredibly awful to use. I'm going to continue using it on one machine for a two week period though just to try and give it a fair trial. Another thin I noticed is that every time I mouse over the sidebar, the entire screen goes black and takes up to 45 seconds to redraw once I withdraw the mouse from the left edge. During the redraw, nothing is clickable.

[NightwishFan]

Do not judge it too harshly. The desktop version of Unity will probably not be like the netbook one. I doubt it will do the maximized windows and appmenu.

[MacUntu]

GNOME Shell just requires basic knowledge of CSS and you can change how it looks and play.
So can you change things other than the looks? Eg. move the side pane (or whatever it is called) to the right?

[SushiR]

Do not judge it too harshly. The desktop version of Unity will probably not be like the netbook one. I doubt it will do the maximized windows and appmenu.

There will be window controls. Read it somewhere yesterday, can't just find the link.

[cariboo]

I am using it right now and you are clearly wrong. It took 4 mouse clicks to launch OOo Calc. One for the menu, one to select Office which took me to a screen completely unrelated to office apps with a text bar of app categories at the top, one to click on office in said text bar which finally takes me to my office apps, and one to at last launch Calc. It does exactly the same no matter which class of app I select. Exactly 4 clicks every time.

Try clicking the applications icon in the panel, then under all application scroll down to OpenOffice Spreadsheet and click the icon, that looks like 2 clicks to me . :)

[NCLI]

I am using it right now and you are clearly wrong. It took 4 mouse clicks to launch OOo Calc. One for the menu, one to select Office which took me to a screen completely unrelated to office apps with a text bar of app categories at the top, one to click on office in said text bar which finally takes me to my office apps, and one to at last launch Calc. It does exactly the same no matter which class of app I select. Exactly 4 clicks every time.
One click to open the Applications overlay, then type the name of the application on the keyboard, and click the icon. Two mouse clicks.

Besides, after doing this once, you can just right-click the icon in the launcher and pin it, making all future launches one click.

Maybe the same number of clicks, but you have to move the mouse all over the screen just to open an application and that sucks.
Read the above.


Westerners read from left to right, that's why it's pretty stupid to have the sidebar on the left getting in the way. The first thing I do when I install Ubuntu is put the panels at the bottom of the screen so they wont get in my field of vision unless I need them.
Accroding to the blueprint, you will be able to move the launcher freely in 11.04.

Besides, I remember the left-to-right argument coming out a lot back when the buttons were moved, and there were quite a few articles posted which disproved that idea.
With that logic, the bezel on your screen also gets in the way.


Breezy and Dapper were good, but it's just getting worse and worse now.
1. That's just your opinion.
2. It's not really a fair/relevant opinion, since 11.04 hasn't been released yet.

[MasterNetra]

...Breezy and Dapper were good, but it's just getting worse and worse now.

Indeed your opinion, and mine is that its been getting better, with some annoyances/hiccups but considering neither Breezy nor Dapper will run effectively or not at all on my machine I'll stick with the more recent versions of Ubuntu.

But hey if Dapper & Breezy work best for you then stick with them. Canonical is just moving forward like pretty much everything else. Standing still usually results in extinction at some point ya know.

[MasterNetra]

Meh, Unity is suppose to be what is actually used in 11.04 and is supposed to drop to 2.x if it finds the system is unable to run Unity. Gnome-Shell I think is just extra at this point. I'll give 11.04 a run, doesn't seem sensible to me to reject something before A: it comes out, and B: I try it.

[K.Mandla]

Similar threads merged. ...

[skrimpy]

@skrimpy

I posted a link, way back here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=10024765&postcount=54) to the lead developers blog (http://njpatel.blogspot.com/), where he more or less admits they dropped the ball on some hardware platforms. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt and try it when natty is released to see if it works better on your system.

I didn't say I won't give it the benefit of the doubt - I will be watching with as much interest as anybody to see how it turns out. It's just that right now there's so much I *dislike* about it that the thought of it moving to the default desktop shell is enough to turn my stomach. As I said, I have never, ever been so disappointed in Ubuntu as I was with Unity and I have spent hours and hours and hours forum surfing to fix quirks on my computers and my husband's computers.

The entire experience of Unity is just really bad for me, and if Feisty had been like that when I switched to Linux I will admit I would have run back to Windows :(

Like I said - I'll test it because I'm a pretty big Ubuntu fan and have been for years now. But it was a major, major letdown, and having had said a bad experience with it it just made my stomach bottom out to read Mark's announcement.

[skrimpy]

Make it work then make it pretty. :P

It's like with GNOME'S Hell - currently not a lot of customization fun available. You can't even change the theme to Radiance without recompiling the whole thing. Hope this will be easier at a later time. :guitar:

http://img.xrmb2.net/296134.jpg (http://img.xrmb2.net/images/296535.png)

You did better than me, I couldn't figure out how to get it to change to Radiance XD

[nothingspecial]

I am thinking of leaving Ubuntu for what it is and compile Gentoo completely from scratch on my next install.


Bad decision for canonical to create a new gnome fork. I think i will leave ubuntu after 5 years for opensuse or fedora.
And i think this is the end for ubuntu...


I don`t understand :confused:

I don`t use the default, music player, browser, text editor, terminal emulator ----- etc, etc

As, I`m sure, most of you don`t.

Who cares what it "ships with" ?

[skrimpy]

Why does that happen? :confused:

It's because the netbook already has a very tiny screen at a 1040 resolution** and the Unity side bar thingy moves in and takes a chunk of that screen space. It forces many websites to have a horizontal scroll bar because they needed that extra resolution taken up by the sidebar.

Using F11 to fullscreen Firefox takes this problem away, but I don't like having it in fullscreen so it really bothers me.

**At least mine does... the argument I've seen is that the "new netbooks" have a higher resolution so people should stop complaining and buy a new machine...I guess.

[Johnsie]

I hear the word 'potential' used alot. I have the potential to be a millionaire, that doesn't mean I am or will ever be one.

Potential is meaningless unless something actually happens, and with Unity there is not much chance of anything significant enough to win the nay-sayers.

Ubuntu is turning into a real mess and I think that for many people this might be the final nail in the coffin of Ubuntu as a respected distro. Microsoft and Apple are so much more advanced, user friendly and prettier.

[MasterNetra]

It's because the netbook already has a very tiny screen at a 1040 resolution** and the Unity side bar thingy moves in and takes a chunk of that screen space. It forces many websites to have a horizontal scroll bar because they needed that extra resolution taken up by the sidebar.

Using F11 to fullscreen Firefox takes this problem away, but I don't like having it in fullscreen so it really bothers me.

**At least mine does... the argument I've seen is that the "new netbooks" have a higher resolution so people should stop complaining and buy a new machine...I guess.

Isn't the side bar supposed to be move-able?

[scouser73]

Make it work then make it pretty. :P

It's like with GNOME'S Hell - currently not a lot of customization fun available. You can't even change the theme to Radiance without recompiling the whole thing. Hope this will be easier at a later time. :guitar:

http://img.xrmb2.net/296134.jpg (http://img.xrmb2.net/images/296535.png)

Good screenshot, I installed Unity this evening on my desktop and all is well with it, far far better than Gnome Shell indeed.

[qamelian]

One click to open the Applications overlay, then type the name of the application on the keyboard, and click the icon. Two mouse clicks.

Ah, so two mouse clicks and a few keystrokes. Not just two mouse clicks. Sorry, but that ain't truth in advertising.

EDIT: Okay, I just tried that method and discover that sometimes it doesn't even display the icon for the application you're typing. There is also a very long delay between typing something and the various matches appearing on the display.

[doorknob60]

Ugh. Well, there's always Xubuntu. Not sure if it's ready for that yet.

[NCLI]

Ah, so two mouse clicks and a few keystrokes. Not just two mouse clicks. Sorry, but that ain't truth in advertising.
Well, then many applications aren't launched with just two mouse-clicks in gnome, since you may have to enter your root password ;)

Anyway, cariboo remembered the method (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=10030802&postcount=207) I was originally thinking of when typing the post(Typing this on XP)

[SushiR]

And then you can pin it to the launcher bar, and it'll be only ONE click...

[qamelian]

Well, then many applications aren't launched with just two mouse-clicks in gnome, since you may have to enter your root password ;)

Anyway, cariboo remembered the method (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=10030802&postcount=207) I was originally thinking of when typing the post(Typing this on XP)

But I'm not talking about apps that require root access so you're response is disingenuous, at best. I think this is very unintuitive given that an overlay appears that seems to indicate a need to select a category of app. It turns out this is not the case either. When I click the web icon, I would expect to be presented with a choice of internet apps. Instead, it simply launches a web browser. Better still, it doesn't even launch the browser I have selected as my default.

I'll continue trying this for a bit on my test box, but I can't see myself ever finding it as usable and comfortable as Gnome Shell. In it's current state, it's incredibly clumsy to use. Hopefully, the changes that are planned for Unity will fix this.

[NCLI]

And then you can pin it to the launcher bar, and it'll be only ONE click...
Exactly.

You could argue that this is possible in Gnome 2.XX as well, by adding a launcher to the panel, but Unity handles them much better.

But I'm not talking about apps that require root access so you're response is disingenuous, at best. I think this is very unintuitive given that an overlay appears that seems to indicate a need to select a category of app.
Ok, ok, I will admit to forgetting the methods of launching apps in Unity, I just posted what I remembered doing while using it, not bothering to launch Unity. :p

It doesn't really matter though, since Cariboo remembered and posted the correct method.

It turns out this is not the case either. When I click the web icon, I would expect to be presented with a choice of internet apps. Instead, it simply launches a web browser. Better still, it doesn't even launch the browser I have selected as my default.
I agree, I hope that will be changed in time for 11.04.


I'll continue trying this for a bit on my test box, but I can't see myself ever finding it as usable and comfortable as Gnome Shell. In it's current state, it's incredibly clumsy to use. Hopefully, the changes that are planned for Unity will fix this.
Again, I agree. I'm just confident that in six months, things will be way better. Six months ago, at this point in the release cycle, Unity was barely functional, buggy, and was pretty much just a fancy dock.

[qamelian]

And then you can pin it to the launcher bar, and it'll be only ONE click...

Except I can't as simply moving the mouse over the bar causes the entire desktop to go black and become useless until I move the mouse away, as I described above. The side bar is unusable for me.

[NCLI]

Except I can't as simply moving the mouse over the bar causes the entire desktop to go black and become useless until I move the mouse away, as I described above. The side bar is unusable for me.
That sounds like a hardware bug, which should be reported. It's really not fair to criticize the overall design of Unity because it is buggy on your particular hardware

BTW: I edited my previous post to respond to you, so please check it out if you want to read my response.

[qamelian]

That sounds like a hardware bug, which should be reported. It's really not fair to criticize the overall design of Unity because it is buggy on your particular hardware

BTW: I edited my previous post to respond to you, so please check it out if you want to read my response.
I'll be submitting a bug report on it in a bit, but I seriously doubt that the problem is my hardware since it handles everything else I throw at it.

Also, I should mention that I've tried it on two other machines here with the same result over a fairly broad assortment of common hardware. There is nothing the least bit exotic about any of these boxes.

[NCLI]

I'll be submitting a bug report on it in a bit, but I seriously doubt that the problem is my hardware since it handles everything else I throw at it.
Well, since it works fine on my computer, and I assume we are both quite competent when it comes to Linux, or at least enough so as to not screw up the installation, it must be a problem with your hardware, probably either in the driver or in Mutter.

My money is on mutter, my general impression is that it's very buggy, and very selective about what hardware it wants to run on.

[qamelian]

Well, since it works fine on my computer, and I assume we are both quite competent when it comes to Linux, or at least enough so as to not screw up the installation, it must be a problem with your hardware, probably either in the driver or in Mutter.

My money is on mutter, my general impression is that it's very buggy, and very selective about what hardware it wants to run on.
I doubt that it's mutter itself as mutter runs without any issues when I'm using Gnome Shell. And yes, I'm pretty competent with Linux since it's been my primary OS for 12 years. When I first started using Linux, I had to compile Xfree86 as well as my sound system from source before I could experience the magic that was FVWM window manager. It only took 3 days to compile every thing on my 486! :)

[NCLI]

I doubt that it's mutter itself as mutter runs without any issues when I'm using Gnome Shell.
IIRC, Unity uses a custumized version of Mutter. Could be wrong there though, but clearly something is going wrong between Unity and your hardware.


And yes, I'm pretty competent with Linux since it's been my primary OS for 12 years. When I first started using Linux, I had to compile Xfree86 as well as my sound system from source before I could experience the magic that was FVWM window manager. It only took 3 days to compile every thing on my 486! :)
When I hear stories like this, I feel glad that I didn't ever have to spend so much time doing this, but I simultaneously feel sad that I wasn't around to learn it, and expand my skillset.

I guess I'm a lazy geek. :p

[cariboo]

Running the netbook version of Unity isn't going to give you a true feel of what it is like. The developers have admitted there are problems with some hardware.

I seem to be one of the few that it actually works not to badly for. I do notice quite a bit of difference between using gnome desktop and unity, If the devs can get unity to run the same way the desktop does, I'll be extremely happy.

[zekopeko]

Do not judge it too harshly. The desktop version of Unity will probably not be like the netbook one. I doubt it will do the maximized windows and appmenu.

I'm actually hoping that they will retain the appmenu or at least do the whole "window buttons + appmenu in the panel" when you maximize the application.

[NightwishFan]

I'm actually hoping that they will retain the appmenu or at least do the whole "window buttons + appmenu in the panel" when you maximize the application.

It might very well be optional.

[WinterMadness]

people will complain about gnome 3 just like they did with kde 4+

a lot of people will switch until gnome 3 matures then people will act like nothing ever happened.

[NightwishFan]

people will complain about gnome 3 just like they did with kde 4+

a lot of people will switch until gnome 3 matures then people will act like nothing ever happened.

True, I liked KDE 4 but did indeed switch from it to Gnome. I switched at the 4.2 release. I think KDE 3.5 should have remained the default until 4.3. Though it may have gotten less bug and developer attention that way.

[hawthornso23]

Overall this is good news as it gives us more options. Especially the integration with compiz - those guys do 3D and compositing more efficiently and with more imagination than the mutter crowd. I have been getting uncomfortable with the direction of gnome since the advent of gnome shell. Too much telling people what they should want. Don't like the attitude. Don't like the result. Glad we will now have an alternative.

Looking forward to next year and new exciting stuff to try.

[rg4w]

Does Canonical publish their usability testing methodology?

[Screwdriver0815]

Does Canonical publish their usability testing methodology?

one research and the used methodology is described here: http://design.canonical.com/

[babai]

I think canonical is doing the right thing, in this way ubuntu wont need to accept whatever the gnome guys decide to do with gnome, if ubuntu does have its own unique interface, it will be only reason for me to shift to it from Arch.

[Screwdriver0815]

I think canonical is doing the right thing, in this way ubuntu wont need to accept whatever the gnome guys decide to do with gnome, if ubuntu does have its own unique interface, it will be only reason for me to shift to it from Arch.
if they would actually contribute to Gnome, they would not need to just accept the stuff which comes from Gnome. They actually and really could influence the stuff which comes from Gnome.

But when you just take, then you have to accept what you get. Simple as that.

[magneze]

My preferred desktop environment is xfce but I was very surprised by the recent announcement regarding the next release.

I have a question perhaps someone can answer. I'm not really familiar with compiz nor unity but my understanding is that it will require 3D hardware support. Given that millions of users have basic laptops sporting basic onboard Intel graphics chipsets, what will the next release mean for these users?

Can you use compiz without 3D hardware acceleration or does this spell the end of Ubuntu for those with basic hardware?Yeah, this is bugging me too. I've seen Unity - it's nice looking but not particularly flashy so why does it need 3D hardware?

[Yeti can't ski]

One click to open the Applications overlay, then type the name of the application on the keyboard, and click the icon. Two mouse clicks.


Ah, so two mouse clicks and a few keystrokes. Not just two mouse clicks. Sorry, but that ain't truth in advertising.

EDIT: Okay, I just tried that method and discover that sometimes it doesn't even display the icon for the application you're typing. There is also a very long delay between typing something and the various matches appearing on the display.

Wow, typying plus two clicks to launch an application! It sounds like the worst of command line and GUI together!

@NCLI: just kidding, I know (hope) they will improve it for the desktop.

[MeanEYE]

Gnome 3? Unity? I think I'll be moving to KDE.

Gnome 3 is an ugly offspring of fully functional desktop interface. Leave the Win7 cr*p behind people. You are willing to sacrifice functionality over some eye candy?

I can't believe this is happening. I use Ubuntu on all my machines and I use it as a production environment. From all the things that can be improved they are f***ing up only decent thing. I saw screenshots of Gnome 3... BIG DISLIKE. Who the hell designed it. Clock in the middle of the screen? Talk about smart usage of desktop space. Yes yes, I am assuming there will probably be an option to cripple that up but still.

Unity is good, but for netbooks. On desktop it's just not functional as native Gnome 2.x. It really isn't. It takes far too much space for no benefit at all, not to mention support for more than one display.

I use to be a KDE fan. Back in the days when functionality was THE biggest concern. Then that GUI thing happened and it's like stupid Vista now. And now Gnome is doomed to repeat that all over again. I just can't believe it...

No wonder Linux never gets major desktop share. Just when something starts getting good someone gets a "great" idea to change everything. I just love how Ubuntu 10.10 feels and looks like. Theme is beautiful, font is easy to read and great looking, and then this happens.

I don't think I'll move away from 10.10 or I might get back to Windows. Yes I know how terrible that sounds but this whole Gnome thing is starting to **** me off. It's like their team is run by Jobs.

[zekopeko]

Gnome 3 is an ugly offspring of fully functional desktop interface. Leave the Win7 cr*p behind people. You are willing to sacrifice functionality over some eye candy?

Windows 7 is a really good OS. Gnome-Shell could only wish it was as pretty and as usable as Windows 7.

[MeanEYE]

Windows 7 is a really good OS. Gnome-Shell could only wish it was as pretty and as usable as Windows 7.

Windows 7 can only wish to be secure, stable and resource savvy as Gnome (Linux). As for Gnome-Shell, I don't want it or like it. And I was referring to their move to cripple usability for the sake of eye candy.

[kaldor]

Oh look, it's the "omg they moved the window buttons to the left, I hate Ubuntu and will never use it again!" thread.

Give this a few months and everyone will love the change. Recent poll showed most people used buttons on the left. When they first moved them to the left, it was vastly outweighed by people wanting them on the right.

People hate change and it's frustrating for the people trying to make things better. It's the reason people still use Windows XP with MS Office 2000.

[MeanEYE]

Oh look, it's the "omg they moved the window buttons to the left, I hate Ubuntu and will never use it again!" thread.

Give this a few months and everyone will love the change. Recent poll showed most people used buttons on the left. When they first moved them to the left, it was vastly outweighed by people wanting them on the right.

People hate change and it's frustrating for the people trying to make things better. It's the reason people still use Windows XP with MS Office 2000.

I actually liked when they moved buttons to the left. It was logical. Right side supposed to be used by Windicators. And then Ubuntu decided to stop working on those.

You mentioned WinXP. All Windows OSes have task bar at the same place, something that looks like start buttons. You can make things prettier without ruining users habits. Gnome 3 is breaking that. Changes are good, but drastic changes confuse the hell out of people. And yes, people are generally afraid of changes, that's why they need to do them gradually. Not like *puff* bottom panel's gone, you have something called "Actions", Places menu is missing... everything's changed...

They invested so much effort in changing something that just works and yet they managed to neglect things people ask for. Like changing date/time formats (not having them defined by locale), Metacitys rendering of window borders, getting rid of system tray... etc. I know those are probably separate projects, but they could have changed things that matter.

As for Unity, Ubuntu team didn't fail so far. I am willing to trust trust them into making something usable.

[cra1g321]

Will gnome-shell still be available on the livecd, or will i have to install it after the install?

[sandman652001]

Tried it on my netbook it took me 10 minutes to remove it and install the desktop version of gnome, I loved the old netbook interface, I could have lived with that one on my desktop. Unity....how can I say this politely....really SUCKS!!! It is the most counter-intuitive piece of programming drivel I have ever seen! To make this move without asking the community what it thinks about it is a really bad idea.

[MeanEYE]

Tried it on my netbook it took me 10 minutes to remove it and install the desktop version of gnome, I loved the old netbook interface, I could have lived with that one on my desktop. Unity....how can I say this politely....really SUCKS!!! It is the most counter-intuitive piece of programming drivel I have ever seen! To make this move without asking the community what it thinks about it is a really bad idea.
They did ask. Check their Facebook page. Although I do agree they could have made some more obvious way to vote.