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Mark76
October 20th, 2010, 11:48 PM
http://www.osnews.com/story/23918/Ubuntu_s_Zimmerman_Qt_Has_a_Lot_to_Offer_Ubuntu


This is kind of... Well, good news, I suppose? It depends on where you allegiances lie, but it seems like Ubuntu is warming up to the idea of using Qt to develop applications. It's no secret that Qt is a far more advanced development framework than Gtk+, so it only makes sense for Ubuntu - a GNOME/Gtk+ distribution - is looking at it.

<snip>

Interesting :-k

alexandari
October 20th, 2010, 11:51 PM
It was about time.

sudoer541
October 21st, 2010, 04:50 AM
Does that mean that they will drop Gnome as well???:shock::eek:

I think they are preparing QT for ubuntu 11.04 since they will be changing ubuntu's UI (supposedly).

Ric_NYC
October 21st, 2010, 05:07 AM
Very interesting!

nrs
October 21st, 2010, 05:27 AM
Qt has always been the technically superior toolkit. GTK+ had a single advantage: LGPL. And now Qt does too.

GNOME written using Qt/KDElibs wouldn't be so bad. It'll never happen but one can dream. :P

Obviously, I am biased. I greatly prefer Qt+KDE libraries to GNOME libraries. Mostly because you're using a single set. There is uniform functionality across all applications, like the ability to customize toolbars, etc. When you develop a GNOME/GTK+ application, you're generally using a mix-match of unrelated libraries and there is really no standard functionality across applications. It also makes linking a PITA.

People like to say KDE is like Windows and GNOME is like Mac OS for some reason, but in this case I think the positions are clearly reversed.

It's not all one sided though, I think visually GNOME applications tend to blur together better.

And Qt usage doesn't mean KDE usage in any form -- there are plenty of Qt applications which don't use KDE libraries in any way. I just think it's a particularly great combination.

Ctrl-Alt-F1
October 21st, 2010, 06:51 AM
I hope this doesn't mean a transition to KDE. Yuck.

Lucradia
October 21st, 2010, 07:03 AM
Does that mean that they will drop Gnome as well???:shock::eek:

I hope not. I absolutely hate KDE, and would rather head over to XFCE4, openbox, etc. before even touching, or THINKING about KDE.

wojox
October 21st, 2010, 07:08 AM
I hope not. I absolutely hate KDE, and would rather head over to XFCE4, openbox, etc. before even touching, or THINKING about KDE.

I never liked KDE - Kubuntu either. Then I tried Opensuse KDE and it rocks.

del_diablo
October 21st, 2010, 08:10 AM
I hope not. I absolutely hate KDE, and would rather head over to XFCE4, openbox, etc. before even touching, or THINKING about KDE.

You hate kdelib, not qt.
GTK er a gigantic mess of a code, along with such messes as GIMP and GNOME to support that its not good.

Lucradia
October 21st, 2010, 08:36 AM
You hate kdelib, not qt.
GTK er a gigantic mess of a code, along with such messes as GIMP and GNOME to support that its not good.

I am well aware of this. I don't mind QT, I just hate how KDE handles things more complicated than GNOME... that's all.

kio_http
October 21st, 2010, 09:14 AM
I am well aware of this. I don't mind QT, I just hate how KDE handles things more complicated than GNOME... that's all.

Not so fast. For stable likers, I know the switch to KDE4 was a bit rushed (KDE3 used components whose development had stopped like the sound framework and QT3) but KDE 4 is getting better and better. The release planned in Jan 2011 will be very nice. Just wait and see. The current 4.5.2 isn't too bad either (better than Gnome in my opinion). But what I am trying to say is give KDE a little bit more time.

With users, developers and feedback etc it isn't a miracle that KDE 4 is still very alive, its frameworks are very advanced and it is easy to develop for KDE 4. See this article (http://www.linux-magazine.com/Issues/2010/116/PLASMA-BABY)

Dragonbite
October 21st, 2010, 02:55 PM
I don't think this is going to be an abandonment of Gnome or GTK.

MeeGo is written in Qt I have found out (Wikipedia on MeeGo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MeeGo)). Smeegol (openSUSE's MeeGo version) includes Gtk applications (Evolution Express and Banshee.. can't speak for more than that because I didn't get it working last night).

So this may not be so much a move to KDE, which I doubt Ubuntu will do since
There is the Kubuntu derivitive
I think Mark was active with the Gnome project years ago.
I think this is in light of the growing focus on mobile devices (netbooks, tablets, entertainment devices, games systems, etc.)! Perhaps they are seeing the possibilities of abandoning the Unity environment or avoiding going Gnome 3.0 in these type of environments and switching to MeeGo.

They may see Nokia, the owners of Trolltech and thus Qt, as a growing power-house and contender to even the Android/iPhone/WebOS/Blackberry (quad)-opoly?

Pursuing MeeGo may enable Ubuntu to run on more devices more easily. Maybe Unity and the Netbook Edtion (UNE) will be converted from a Gnome base to a MeeGo base (heavily customized and styled for Ubuntu of course ;) )?

So much going on in this industry, there is never a dull moment!

Lucradia
October 21st, 2010, 06:20 PM
Not so fast. For stable likers, I know the switch to KDE4 was a bit rushed (KDE3 used components whose development had stopped like the sound framework and QT3) but KDE 4 is getting better and better. The release planned in Jan 2011 will be very nice. Just wait and see. The current 4.5.2 isn't too bad either (better than Gnome in my opinion). But what I am trying to say is give KDE a little bit more time.

With users, developers and feedback etc it isn't a miracle that KDE 4 is still very alive, its frameworks are very advanced and it is easy to develop for KDE 4. See this article (http://www.linux-magazine.com/Issues/2010/116/PLASMA-BABY)

I'll give it time when it has CTRL+ALT+Arrow Keys set to default to switch workspaces, and ALT+Tab to switch through applications. Going through those hotkey customization dialogs, gives me a wicked headache.

forrestcupp
October 21st, 2010, 07:14 PM
So now people who prefer the Gnome version will be forced to have GTK+ and Qt libs running in the background. I know people have been doing that for a long time, but at least we used to have a choice.

Dragonbite
October 21st, 2010, 08:05 PM
So now people who prefer the Gnome version will be forced to have GTK+ and Qt libs running in the background. I know people have been doing that for a long time, but at least we used to have a choice.

Possible.

At least they seem to be more stable and better "fitting" than years ago.

bash
October 21st, 2010, 09:05 PM
I don't think this is going to be an abandonment of Gnome or GTK.

MeeGo is written in Qt I have found out (Wikipedia on MeeGo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MeeGo)). Smeegol (openSUSE's MeeGo version) includes Gtk applications (Evolution Express and Banshee.. can't speak for more than that because I didn't get it working last night).

That is all true but gives of a false image. Smeegol is based on the MeeGo Netbook UX which was developed by Intel based on Moblin using GTK+. The Qt part mostly refers to the MeeGo Mobile UX which is written based on Maemo using Qt.

Apparently though you will be able to use Qt Apps on any of the MeeGo "variants", although I'm not quite sure how far that support is.

DeadSuperHero
October 21st, 2010, 09:41 PM
I've always wanted to see a Gnome-like desktop done entirely in Qt, with the Ayatana modifications.

It's not really out of the realm of possibility when you think about it.

Half-Left
October 22nd, 2010, 12:50 AM
Qt has always been the technically superior toolkit. GTK+ had a single advantage: LGPL. And now Qt does too.

GNOME written using Qt/KDElibs wouldn't be so bad. It'll never happen but one can dream. :P

Obviously, I am biased. I greatly prefer Qt+KDE libraries to GNOME libraries. Mostly because you're using a single set. There is uniform functionality across all applications, like the ability to customize toolbars, etc. When you develop a GNOME/GTK+ application, you're generally using a mix-match of unrelated libraries and there is really no standard functionality across applications. It also makes linking a PITA.

People like to say KDE is like Windows and GNOME is like Mac OS for some reason, but in this case I think the positions are clearly reversed. Qt is a toolkit, KDE just happen to use it.

It's not all one sided though, I think visually GNOME applications tend to blur together better.

And Qt usage doesn't mean KDE usage in any form -- there are plenty of Qt applications which don't use KDE libraries in any way. I just think it's a particularly great combination.

What's Qt got to do with kdelibs? If Canonical adopted Qt, KDE libraries would have nothing to do with it at all

NightwishFan
October 22nd, 2010, 12:57 AM
I doubt there would be much of a problem at all if there would be QT apps used or as default.

nrs
October 22nd, 2010, 01:03 AM
What's Qt got to do with kdelibs? If Canonical adopted Qt, KDE libraries would have nothing to do with it at all
-



And Qt usage doesn't mean KDE usage in any form -- there are plenty of Qt applications which don't use KDE libraries in any way. I just think it's a particularly great combination.

Half-Left
October 22nd, 2010, 01:22 AM
Confusing comments that was all in that they were minced together quiet badly.

juancarlospaco
October 22nd, 2010, 01:28 AM
Reading the Posts it seems a lot of people have tried GTK 3...

Because you need to compare the on-development Qt 4.x to the on-development GTK 3.x i think...

NightwishFan
October 22nd, 2010, 01:34 AM
I am not really a programmer however it looks like GTK/Gnome is really trying to move forward, with Gobject and etc. I tried a few of Yorba's apps based on Vala/Gtk and they are all fast and full featured. Shotwell is even multi-threaded I am pretty sure.

QT is more than just a widget toolkit as well.

murderslastcrow
October 22nd, 2010, 02:46 AM
This is true. Regardless of your opinion on menu layouts and desktop environments, you must consider how it feels as a developer who wants to go cross-platform or open source just how appealing Qt is. And, as Gnome users have complete integration with Qt in their theme engines, I don't see why there should be any complaint at all, outside of integration issues, which don't really pop up anymore in FOSSland.

When considering the politics of any situation, it is important to consider multiple factors simultaneously and not make broad accusations and assumptions. This may be the way of political discussion in certain western nations, but in practice it breeds bigotry and blindness.

Put plainly, wxWidgets is the closest thing GTK has for the ubiquity of Qt so far as compatibility goes. And, from a design perspective, it's wiser to use a toolkit that will look integrated on every platform (Windows, OS X, Gnome, KDE, Symbian, and even Android is coming along). Many KDE users, for instance, are distraught that there are a few good applications they wish to use which need QtCurve to look right, which has an incomplete set of functionality compared to Qt's theme engine (radial gradients, rounded corners, grabbable widget backgrounds).

I believe that every toolkit worthy of consideration should be weighed to the purpose, regardless of its origin and use in DEs.

I find Matt's comments ironic in comparison to Mr. Shuttleworth's recent comments on developing for KDE, and how it just wouldn't be feasible to port all the Ubuntu-centric addons to KDE. Just goes to show how separate these issues really are, and perhaps how little what these men say has to do with an absolute depiction of the future of this technology.