Pirates wants to be in the parliament now

[Kvark]

I think The Pirate Party in Sweden has a considerable chance to get into the parliament next election because the portion of the population that are pirating and think it's perfectly ok is several times bigger then the 4% limit and it's not only pirates that want privacy. If they do reach the limit and get into the parliament then they can voice counter arguments in the core of the political debate each time a new law to improve copyright/patent protection or electronic surveillance is discussed and also bring up their own alternative suggestions into the political scene.

Please read this page (https://www.piratpartiet.se/English.aspx) that explains what their aims are.

Pirates in the Swedish parliament... What does foreigners in general and open source fans in particular think about that possibility?



PS. Please don't turn this into the old "OMG! cheap parasiting thief!" vs "STFU! I do what I want!" flame war, everyone has already heard all that before. The new topic here is the specific issue that the pirates formed a political party with the aims I linked to (https://www.piratpartiet.se/English.aspx) and might have a chance to get into the parliament in a European country. I am very curious on what open source people think about this. So please try to remain serious and stay on topic.

[Stormy Eyes]

So, will the Ninja Party follow suit? Seriously: I don't give a rip what they do in Sweden; I'm not a Swedish citizen and I do not pay taxes to Sweden's government, therefore what goes on there is no concern of mine.

[ComplexNumber]

i think they should change their name if they want to be taken even slightly seriously :-D. people don't want a one issue party. it doesn't work, never has, and never will. sometime ago, we had a party here called The Referendum party whos only policy was to get a referendum in europe. then there was the Green party who only concern themselves with green issues. there was also the Monster Raving Loony party whos's only concern was.....well, thats anyones guess :D. none of them ever get anywhere because they are often seen as being too fanatical due to the fact that they are narrowing their focus on one issue (even if they're not like that in reality, thats how they're perceived).

[Lovechild]

If all they run on is legal personal p2p usage, I doubt anyone will vote for them in all seriousness - they need a full political program.

However I wish them good luck.

[taurus]

I suppose that would make the people at MPAA and RIAA a little nervous...

[DigitalDuality]

I applaud the pirate party. Even if they don't succeed they will raise awareness of the issue.

And it would not suprise me in the least if this began cropping up across europe as well.

This is definately i'd like to see our Green or Libertarian parties take up as a serious issue.

[prizrak]

I suppose that would make the people at MPAA and RIAA a little nervous...
Considering either of them would be able to BUY Sweden many times over, I doubt they care ;) In all seriousness tho, Sweden is #1 in serving pirated content (#2 used to be my old school but US Customs raped us).

[helpme]

Aren't these the piratebay guys, which amused us so much with their balanced and well worded legal opinions? :twisted:

Personally, I think it's great that they are running. It may not be much of a platform but at least it will draw interest to very important issues that are generally overlooked in political debates, which is great.

Go Pirates!

[krusbjorn]

Not a chance they will get more than 4% of the votes. They are insane and the rest of the political parties will make them look as bad as the right wing xenophobes and the left wing syndicalists. I dont think completely abolishing patents and making it legal to copy whatever you want as long as you dont intend to make money of it is the way to go. But at least they removed the paragraph where they stated that they want to completely remove all copyright laws.

Also, they dont have any agenda at all except for this very narrow field, and I never believed in "one-question-parties", be they extreme feminists, the"health care party" or pirates. I'd rather use my vote to strengthen parties that are already in the parliament, whose ideological view correspond to mine, instead of wasting it on a party that only care for copyright/patent laws, and on top of that was doomed the day they put that webpage up.


Aren't these the piratebay guys, which amused us so much with their balanced and well worded legal opinions? :twisted:!

No, they are not the same. They met a few times, but they arent connected in any way.

[helpme]

No, they are not the same. They met a few times, but they arent connected in any way.
I see. Thanks for clearing this up, thought I'd read it somewhere.

[bonzodog]

It's also worth remembering that the MPAA and RIAA are US organisations, and are unable to enforce the law outside it's borders, so what happens in Sweden is no concern of theirs. I was part of a UK group who successfully got the MPAA kicked out of the UK by a Judge, after they tried to serve a warrant to a friend of mine in Lanacashire. see here (http://www.p2pnet.net/story/5436).

[mostwanted]

http://thepiratebay.org/legal.php

Other Swedish radicals. The legal section is absolutely hilarious :)

[DigitalDuality]

^
Do you not think they don't have equivalents in Sweden or the rest of Europe that have very close ties to the MPAA/RIAA?

[krusbjorn]

^
Do you not think they don't have equivalents in Sweden or the rest of Europe that have very close ties to the MPAA/RIAA?

Well, the lobbyists in Sweden (the Anti Pirate Bureau) are trying to get things done, but they havent been too successful. People generally just laugh at them, and since the minister of justice publicly said that the laws are for stopping the people that "make millions off file sharing" and not your average poker playing teen, there presently really isnt very much they can do.

[awakatanka]

Maybe it backfire and they make more people aware of the illegal use of copy's, and other political party's will change laws.

[[h2o]]

If they do get 4% in the next election (which they won't if you ask me) then I think all other swedish parties must sit down and rethink what they do to appeal to young voters.
I personally think they have one good point: They are actively working for personal rights and against more extreme forms of public surveillance.

I will absolutely not vote for them.

[bjweeks]

How about they come to the US and run for office? Anything but bush...

[nickle]

How about they come to the US and run for office? Anything but bush...

Who knows they might win, since we all now know you don't need a majority to get elected in the US....

[jeremy]

I hope that they will win a few seats in the European parliament too!

[Kimm]

I wouldnt mind if they won (I am a swedish citicen), as long as people dont make money on piracy.

I do think they should change name though... like "Partiet för fri delning av information" (meaning: "The Party for free information sharing")... Piratpartiet doesnt sound to trustworthy

[pmj]

And why exactly are they doomed to fail? I'm pretty sure we have way more serious file sharers in Sweden than we have enviromental nuts, and yet the Green Party usually makes it above the required 4%. If only we could get the young and the geeks out and voting, the success of the Piracy Party is guaranteed.

They will at least get my vote. To me, issues like copyright and privacy are very important, and no other party than the Piracy Party, even if they are a bit radical, will work to change things in the direction I desire. In fact, it seems like most other parties want to go in the opposite direction.

[Gustav]

In fact, it seems like most other parties want to go in the opposite direction.
I'll agree on that. But I have no idea what they think in other questions. For all I know they may be nazis (well I don't think they are but they have not told me that they are not).

And I'm a member of the left party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Party_%28Sweden%29) (which do not have a good policy regarding these matters, but they/we are good regarding everything else (at least I think so) :)) and naturally I'll vote for them/us.

[krusbjorn]

And why exactly are they doomed to fail? I'm pretty sure we have way more serious file sharers in Sweden than we have enviromental nuts, and yet the Green Party usually makes it above the required 4%. If only we could get the young and the geeks out and voting, the success of the Piracy Party is guaranteed.

Because, as I said, should they become a real threat to the other parties, they will make sure they look like criminals (as a matter of fact they apparently are). And the "Green Party" have a full fledged political agenda, read their party program and you'll notice that their ideology do not only care for the environment. The Piracy Party have already clearly stated that they care only for copyright/patent laws and matters connected to individual integrity, nothing else. Having them in the parliament would be a waste of seats.

If they manage to get people to take them seriously, these questions will automatically be part of the election campaigns. The Piracy Party will at most raise the question and force the other parties to state where they stand when it comes to copyright, patents and personal integrity. And when they do, the Piracy Party wont have any function to fulfill anymore, since the Left and Green parties as far as sanity goes, will take their side.

They wont get more than 4% of the votes, and every vote they get (just like F! or Junilistan) is one vote closer for the right Alliance to get the power. So if you care for personal integrity, try to make sure that the left block wins instead of voting for a bunch of kids trying to get famous.

[halfvolle melk]

Having them in the parliament would be a waste of seats.

If they manage to get people to take them seriously, these questions will automatically be part of the election campaigns. The Piracy Party will at most raise the question and force the other parties to state where they stand when it comes to copyright, patents and personal integrity. And when they do, the Piracy Party wont have any function to fulfill anymore, since the Left and Green parties as far as sanity goes, will take their side.
Which would be a seat well spent, won't it?


they will make sure they look like criminals (as a matter of fact they apparently are)
How is that? I only know of this from hear say and reading their site.

[pmj]

And when they do, the Piracy Party wont have any function to fulfill anymore, since the Left and Green parties as far as sanity goes, will take their side.
If that happens, mission accomplished! They exist for a reason, that reason being that many people are unhappy with current copyright laws and protection of their privacy, and nobody else is working for them. Right now, there is a place for the Piracy Party and you pretty much admitted that much. If that place disappears because other parties start caring about the core issues of the Piracy Party, then that's just fine with me. And probably most everyone else as well.

And since you seem to be so sure of yourself and that what you say is right, perhaps you have some research to show me? How many that voted for the Green Party did so in any significant part because they have a full party program? I know I didn't, back when I voted for them. But hey, I'm just one person.

[krusbjorn]

Which would be a seat well spent, won't it?

I dont see how that comment have anything to do with what you quoted. Care to clarify? :)



How is that? I only know of this from hear say and reading their site.

Well, I would guess they download copyrighted material. That makes them criminals, as far as the law is concerned. On the other hand, 600 000 more people in Sweden commit the same crimes (and I am one of them), but that doesnt make it legal. But enforcing the law on all this people is impossible. The Piracy Party will raise the question (which is good) and the other parties will have to start getting their hands dirty with it, but that is as far as the Piracy Party will go.

[krusbjorn]

If that happens, mission accomplished! They exist for a reason, that reason being that many people are unhappy with current copyright laws and protection of their privacy, and nobody else is working for them. Right now, there is a place for the Piracy Party and you pretty much admitted that much. If that place disappears because other parties start caring about the core issues of the Piracy Party, then that's just fine with me. And probably most everyone else as well.

Yeah, I fully agree.


And since you seem to be so sure of yourself and that what you say is right, perhaps you have some research to show me? How many that voted for the Green Party did so in any significant part because they have a full party program? I know I didn't, back when I voted for them. But hey, I'm just one person.

If people vote for a party, I think you can assume that they agree with the Party's overall ideology. In this case, I believe it is you who have to prove your point, since what I assumed is the logical conclusion. As for their party program, here it is (http://www.mp.se/files/82000-82099/file_82014.pdf). I know me and everyone I know that voted for the Green Party in the latest election (10 or so people), none of us are "environmentalist nuts", but tend to agree with them on many points. Sure, some of them had to do with the environment, but most of them are other stuff, like policies on immigrants, refugees, taxes, social security, health care, education, eldercare etc.

[halfvolle melk]

I dont see how that comment have anything to do with what you quoted. Care to clarify? :)
I may hav misunderstood your post, but what I meant is that what it takes (letting them get a seat because enough people care about it) for other parties to review their positions on patenting and so on, that might just be worth it.


Well, I would guess they download copyrighted material. That makes them criminals, as far as the law is concerned. On the other hand, 600 000 more people in Sweden commit the same crimes (and I am one of them), but that doesnt make it legal. But enforcing the law on all this people is impossible. The Piracy Party will raise the question (which is good) and the other parties will have to start getting their hands dirty with it, but that is as far as the Piracy Party will go.
Obviously I'm not going to tell someone from Sweden what this party is about :) , but briefly glancing through the site they speak of
- ensuring privacy :KS
- abolishing patents (dividd on that one)
- altering rediculous copiright laws :KS

I think I'm missing the download bit.

[krusbjorn]

I think I'm missing the download bit.

It was just an assumption from my side, nothing more. And I cant prove anything, so I'll have to back at that one. Lets just say it makes sense that they download stuff, since most people do, and they find it perfectly 100% ethical to do so. And the rest of the parties wont hesitate to use that against them ;)

[pmj]

I know me and everyone I know that voted for the Green Party in the latest election (10 or so people), none of us are "environmentalist nuts", but tend to agree with them on many points. Sure, some of them had to do with the environment, but most of them are other stuff, like policies on immigrants, refugees, taxes, social security, health care, education, eldercare etc.
It obviously depends on the kind of people you know, but I think it's pretty obvious that the average voter is shockingly uninformed, and will typically vote by tradition, vague feelings and single issues. I voted for the Greens because at the time I didn't think the governent did enough for the enviroment. I didn't care about their other issues since I knew that they weren't *that* different from the Social Democrats (that would win anyway, like they always do) and would work hardest on enviromental issues.

Reason I asked for some proof was that while I try to present what I say as my opinion, it sounded like you were very sure that what you said was the absolute truth. I just thought that if you were THAT sure of yourself, you must have done a lot of research on this. ;)