Is it legal/okay to sell Ubuntu/Linux CDs you got for free?

[amoser]

I just found this on ebay, was just looking around.
http://search.ebay.com/ubuntu_W0QQsojsZ1QQfromZR40

~Alan

[Rancoras]

I guess that's good for people that are on dialup and don't want to download it. I just can't get back into the dialup mindset though.

[Magneto]

I just found this on ebay, was just looking around.
http://search.ebay.com/ubuntu_W0QQsojsZ1QQfromZR40

~Alan
smfh

for someone without broadband buying free distro cd's might be cool but cmon one guy wants 5 dollars shipping and .99 for the CD

one guy has a bunch of different distros for 5 bucks which is cool

im glad i have blanks and broadband- but if I didnt Ubuntu would mail me 10 free :)

[poptones]

Five bucks is reasonable. It seems a bit tacky taking something given to you and selling it - but then, how many wedding gifts do you think end up on ebay?

Five bucks to pack up an envelope, address it, send it off... and then you still have to pay paypal and the ebay listing. That's a lot more work than I'd be willing to do for five bucks. Times are hard, and some people really need money.

[Infatuated_iPod]

It costs about 1.29 to ship that in the US, and 30 cents to put it on ebay. Those people must be desperate... :neutral:

[poptones]

30 cents to put it on ebay PLUS another thirty cents a pop to paypal + 2.9% of five bucks. By the time you cover postage and service charges it's an awful lot of trouble to earn a measly three bucks.

I sold a CD on ebay once. I thought of selling all my CDs but after seeing how much trouble it was to sell just one I gave up. Just going through all those forms to setup the ad is more trouble than five bucks is worth to me. If someone is willing to do all that for so little money, they must need it - enough that I'm not going to find fault with them over the matter.

[Magneto]

It costs about 1.29 to ship that in the US, and 30 cents to put it on ebay. Those people must be desperate... :neutral:
alot of people are running those ebay home businesses in a box - where it teaches them to buy stuff or get it free and sell it on ebay for any amount of profit - half of the infomercials on tv at night are about that crap
some moron will buy one of those cds and resell it on ebay
lmao @ hightech idiocy
that is desperation though
Thanks to our glorious leader GW for bringing such as glorious economic revolution.

[jdodson]

Thanks to our glorious leader GW for bringing such as glorious economic revolution.

funny quote. though i am not sure what you mean. i am not mad or anything, i just am not sure how GW is helping people sell gnu/linux on ebay.:mrgreen:

btw i am no gw supporter, just wondering.

[Magneto]

funny quote. though i am not sure what you mean. i am not mad or anything, i just am not sure how GW is helping people sell gnu/linux on ebay.:mrgreen:

btw i am no gw supporter, just wondering.
I was thanking the glorious leader for making the economy so great that the multitudes have the privilege of selling free objects in order to make 50 cents.

It was more of an after comment regarding desparation exhibited by people selling something offered freely on ubuntu's website. I dont support GW either :) but he doesn't need my help it seems.
56million people other than me think he's the greatest
Heil George!

[zenwhen]

People will make a buck where they can.

Also, <3 Bush.

[Magneto]

People will make a buck where they can.

Also, <3 Bush.
im not l33t enuf to understand <3 Bush

[jdodson]

im not l33t enuf to understand <3 Bush

i think he is making a hind-end aimed at bush, or i could be mistaken. i think it is an emoticon not leet(i just spelled leet, i guess i must be non-leet then).

[poptones]

People will make a buck where they can.

Also, <3 Bush.

Eh? Isn't the arrow pointing the wrong way? Or on the wrong side of the 3... or something?

"Why is the mailman wearing a bucket?"
"Huh? Well, it symbolizes our persecution."
"Then... shouldn't you be wearing the bucket?"

[Magneto]

Is it against the law to mention ass and The Glorious Leader? I'd think so since you cannot wear the wrong t-shirt near him or The Vice-Glorious Leader without getting arrested.

[poofyhairguy]

im not l33t enuf to understand <3 Bush


heart Bush. My fourteen year old sister does things on gaim many levels worse than this.

[jdodson]

heart Bush. My fourteen year old sister does things on gaim many levels worse than this.

oh i get it. heart, yeah ok i see it. what could you do in gaim that is so bad? ascii porn?

[poofyhairguy]

oh i get it. heart, yeah ok i see it. what could you do in gaim that is so bad? ascii porn?

butchering of english language.

[Magneto]

lol


_________________
< Glorious Leader Sucks Ass >
-----------------
\ ^__^
\ (oo)\_______
(__)\ )\/\
||----w |
|| ||

[Klunk]

At least you guys democratically elected Bush as your leader, us Brits have him as leader by proxy because Blair is so far up his rear end that Blair does whatever Bush tells him.

[Magneto]

At least you guys democratically elected Bush as your leader, us Brits have him as leader by proxy because Blair is so far up his rear end that Blair does whatever Bush tells him.
Oh you mean the best billionaire from yale who had enough backing from corporations and other "sponsors" won a fair and "square" election? Oh ok that is democratic.

I like your klunk banner

[Infatuated_iPod]

I was lookin on ebay and i saw a whole bunch of people trying to get money off open source! How low do you have to go to sell Open source software!!! I cant believe that people are actually buying this garbage! The thing that made me the most upset was some guy was selling OPEN OFFICE.ORG!!!! WHAT THE HELL!!?!?! It is a FREE 5 min. download! Worst part is.. somebody actually bid on it. I wish i could tell the people that are thinking about buying these products that they can get them all for free... I understand if you dont have broadband then buying a cd can be quite helpful. But OpenOffice.org? Thats taking it a little too far.

[Nis]

Better yet, if they're getting open source stuff to use on Windows give them or tell them to order some Ubuntu CDs. OpenOffice.org, Firefox, The GIMP, and others all have Windows versions on the LiveCD.
I have seen companies that sell CDs of Linux distributions (which is good if you're on dial-up) but never anyone selling CDs like you described. Oh what people will do for money and what people will do to give money away. :)

[zenwhen]

Is there something wrong with trying to make money from the sale of open source software? It doesn't violate the license of said software. If the buyer wants it, and has not found out about it any other way but ebay, it is their fault for not looking harder.

At least they will wind up with a useable office suit for less than they would pay for MS office.

Calm down, jeeze. :-$

[az]

Get over it. You can even buy an openoffice.org cd directly from openoffice.org.

It is not evil to make money from open source. It is not evil to make modey.


http://distribution.openoffice.org/cdrom/

[jdodson]

Is there something wrong with trying to make money from the sale of open source software? It doesn't violate the license of said software. If the buyer wants it, and has not found out about it any other way but ebay, it is their fault for not looking harder.

At least they will wind up with a useable office suit for less than they would pay for MS office.

Calm down, jeeze. :-$

wereas i know it is legal to charce for openoffice and other GPL apps, i think that if you are selling GPL or free as in freedom programs you do need to be in mind of a few things. some of these are a requirement, some are just what i feel to be helpful to the free software community.

required: to provide the source. to make sure that the authors are given credit.

helpful: to provide support(not many ebay folk do this). to provide a pointer to the source you got it from. for instance i think it is helpful to let the buyer know that it is a free project that can be obtained freely. for instance a line stating "by the way, this program you can get for free from this site http://www.x.com."

[Rancoras]

For a lot of people, openoffice would be download of a lot longer than 5 minutes. Believe it or not, there are still a lot of dialup users out there. Buying a CD may be a more attractive option than waiting hours for a download. For products licensed under GPL, there are no restrictions whatsoever on re-selling software. CheapBytes has been selling distro CDs for years. I've even bought from them back when I was on dialup. Most times, people only charge what it costs for production. That's usually a very fair price.

[rbran100]

Some people are willing to pay to do things the way they are comfortable. If buying a CD is that then let them!

:rolleyes:

Rich

[jcooper]

I can't believe the cheek of some people. I've just found people selling Ubuntu CD sets for £1 + £2.49 P&P on eBay. Thats a dramatic £3.49 profit for them, and not a penny for OSS.

Have a look here (http://search.ebay.co.uk/ubuntu_W0QQfromZR8QQsokeywordredirectZ1QQsoloctogZ 9)!

Perhaps someone should ask the seller a question?

While we're on the subject, if anyone in the UK has yet to receive some CDs (and is desperate to do so), I have 6 spare which I can post to you (limited to 1 per person).

[jobezone]

While I've not seen the link,
selling (or more correctly worded, distributing) Ubuntu is perfectally legal. The Ubuntu CD is 100% free software, thus it can be distributed at any cost, as long as this possibility (and a few others, like being able to acess the source code, change it, and redestribute it with changes) is also passed on to the buyer.

For me, I see this as a good thing, as a way to disseminate ubuntu, although perhaps it will catch people who don't know that they can get it for free from Canonical.
And true, I allways prefer to buy distributions from places or shops which send part of the profits they make selling the cd's to the organizations who make them (for example, I used to buy debian from cheaps&bytes)

[adbak]

It's useful for those who don't have a reliable or fast internet connection wherever they may be in the world. I think it also has something to do with trickle-up economics, but I'm not about to get into that.

Cheers.

[jdong]

There is nothing wrong with this. Some people don't have burners or high-speed internet, and can't wait for the ShipIt service.


So how much does a boxed SuSE Linux cost? ;)

[Raven-sb]

Hi There,

I'm pretty sure that this isn't supposed to be happening, and I felt strongly enough about it to make a post here. I was browsing trademe.co.nz looking for linux books, and came across someone taking advantage of Ubuntu's free cd policy. Basically they are selling the cd's for $5.00.

Now 5 bucks isn't much, but as part of the underlining philosopy of Ubuntu is to make sure that it is always availible free of charge I felt it was important to bring this to your attention. Is there someway of shutting this type of thing down?

Regards,

Raven

Here is the link to the trade,

http://www.trademe.co.nz/structure/0002-0360-0243-1226-/auction-25277045.htm

[kassetra]

Is there someway of shutting this type of thing down?


Hmmm... You might want contact the official ubuntu site directly. We are a different team here, and while we do the support, we don't deal with those kinds of issues...

[Raven-sb]

Ok thanks,

I'll look at the offical site for a contact address.

[jdong]

The GPL allows for this, so it's legally OK to do this.

[BWF89]

The GPL allows for this, so it's legally OK to do this.
Yep. Besides, not we can't say that no one is making money off of a free operating system :-P .

[morethannoise]

The CD's have been sold on Ebay itself for quite awhile now, along with many other distros.

[Raven-sb]

I'm aware of the GPL allowing ppl to modify the code and the then resell the product as a distribution.

What got to me however is this, it costs the person shipping the ubuntu cds money to ship them to whereever they are going. Now if the person doing the shipping isn't making any money and the cd's are supposed to be given away free, how is fair that someone is making a profit from those cd's?

As for other distributions, well depending on the distro the seller would have paided for the distribution themselves and are simply reselling it, so I don't have a problem with that. It just strikes me as wrong that someone can sell something that they obtained for free at the cost of another person.

Regardless I've done all I can do now, in sending an email to the official site. It's up to them what they do with this.

Raven

[morethannoise]

Classic Buyer Beware, especially since someone with a slow connection can receive the Ubuntu CD via the official site free of charge.

[cdhotfire]

This is also bad advertisement, most people dont know about ubuntu, but they know ebay. So one day they are strolling along ebay looking at things and they see what? an ubuntu disk, suppose to be pretty good, why not give it a try. They buy it and, what a surprise they, LOVE IT! This brings more members into the community. :\ (wish i think is a good idea)

Im not saying is not a bad thing to sell free stuff, but there are tons of people who do it. So i guess this doesnt hurt ubuntu?, or does it?

[BWF89]

Classic Buyer Beware, especially since someone with a slow connection can receive the Ubuntu CD via the official site free of charge.
Yeah, if you want to wait a couple of months to get your CD. If you have a slow connection and you don't want to wait a couple of months to get your CD from the official site ebay might draw in some users who normally wouldn't try a non-Windows distro. Especially if they need to put an operating system on their computer within a couple of days.

[jobezone]

Yeah, if you want to wait a couple of months to get your CD. If you have a slow connection and you don't want to wait a couple of months to get your CD from the official site ebay might draw in some users who normally wouldn't try a non-Windows distro. Especially if they need to put an operating system on their computer within a couple of days.
This is the nice thing of free software, you can distribute,re-distribute and re-re-redistribute as freely as you want. The Free Software Foundation (similar with Ubuntu's philosophy), which creator of the GPL and of the definition of Free Software, says this about "selling" free software:

"Many people believe that the spirit of the GNU project is that you should not charge money for distributing copies of software, or that you should charge as little as possible -- just enough to cover the cost.

Actually we encourage people who redistribute free software to charge as much as they wish or can. If this seems surprising to you, please read on.

The word ``free'' has two legitimate general meanings; it can refer either to freedom or to price. When we speak of ``free software'', we're talking about freedom, not price. (Think of ``free speech'', not ``free beer''.) Specifically, it means that a user is free to run the program, change the program, and redistribute the program with or without changes.

Free programs are sometimes distributed gratis, and sometimes for a substantial price. Often the same program is available in both ways from different places. The program is free regardless of the price, because users have freedom in using it.

Non-free programs are usually sold for a high price, but sometimes a store will give you a copy at no charge. That doesn't make it free software, though. Price or no price, the program is non-free because users don't have freedom.

Since free software is not a matter of price, a low price isn't more free, or closer to free. So if you are redistributing copies of free software, you might as well charge a substantial fee and make some money. Redistributing free software is a good and legitimate activity; if you do it, you might as well make a profit from it.

Free software is a community project, and everyone who depends on it ought to look for ways to contribute to building the community. For a distributor, the way to do this is to give a part of the profit to the Free Software Foundation or some other free software development project. By funding development, you can advance the world of free software."

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

[KiwiNZ]

Ther are many operations selling CD's for most Distros , they are basically offering a download service . So at $5 per cd , noone is getting ripped off.
And its great for those poor souls out there still on 56k .

Here is an excellent site here in New Zealand that I have used when I dont want to use up bandwidth downloading . I order and 2 days later the disk(s) are in my mail box.

http://www.fishpond.co.nz/index.php?cPath=116_117_118

Oh and this is not advertising it simply showing an example of a legit operation

[Raven-sb]

Ah ok, I wasn't aware of the GPL policy on reselling linux. Thanks for making that clear.

Regards,

Raven

[az]

"It just strikes me as wrong that someone can sell something that they obtained for free at the cost of another person"

I am sure that Canonical has thought of that. It is pretty much irrelevant when the point is to get Ubuntu installed on as many computers as possible.

Some people need to pay for something in order to beleive that is has value. The point is, it is getting out.

To get it spread out is why the cds are distributed for free in the first place.

[wtd]

This forum seems like as good a place to ask as any.

Are there any legal issues with listing an auction for Ubuntu CDs on eBay?

If there are, is there a difference between the CDs shipped by Canonical and CDs someone burned on their own machine?

[aysiu]

As I understand it, from a legal standpoint, the charge isn't for the OS but for the CD burning and the CDs. I think, in the GPL, you're allowed to resell. In any case, looking at the eBay (http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?fsop=1&fsoo=1&keyword=on&from=R3&strKw=+u&siteid=0&satitle=ubuntu&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6) listings, I don't think it's so bad. People are charging several US $ for CDs, and it probably ships faster than the free shipit CDs you get from Canonical (which usually take a couple of months).

Theoretically, there's no difference, but I'd trust the CDs shipped by Canonical over the ones someone burned and decided to sell on eBay.

[xmastree]

but I'd trust the CDs shipped by Canonical over the ones someone burned and decided to sell on eBay.
This guy (http://cgi.ebay.com/Ubuntu-Linux-OS-300-value-Office-Suite-Games-and-Apps_W0QQitemZ7182996097QQcategoryZ41887QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem) seems to be selling shipit originals:

This is not some burned and labeled CD like most sellers, you are getting the retail Intel version in the package.

Retail?

[welsh_spud]

I've never used Shipit before, and I always thought they were just standard burned CDs from OfficeMax. How much money does Ubuntu pay to manufacture these really profesional looking CDs?

[xequence]

I've never used Shipit before, and I always thought they were just standard burned CDs from OfficeMax. How much money does Ubuntu pay to manufacture these really profesional looking CDs?

I know two things: One, there was $10 million invested into ubuntu. Two, it costs only a little bit more to order 10 CDs then 1.

[ewtesterman@cox.net]

Maybe I do not understand the GPL that well or all of the other legal issues involved. Could someone explain to me how someone can sell the ship it CD's on Ebay? I was just looking around and ran into several adds on Ebay sell the Ubuntu ship it disks. Maybe I don't see this the right way but it just seems wrong to me, I have always made it a point to give those disks away for free, just as I received them for free. I could see a charge if one made and packaged the disks themselves, but to order the ship it disks and then turn around and sell them. I find this very bothersome and contradictory to the open source movement as I understand it. I just find it hard to see it as okay to profit from someone else's work especially when that runs counter to their mission.

[TrendyDark]

Not reading your post, but this has been discussed, it's okay to sell it, but just order it from shipit. . .

[jasay]

I wouldn't sell or buy ubuntu cd's, but it's fine under the gpl. If you wanted to justify it you could say that the buyer is paying for the quick delivery. I 'm guessing 2-3 days (though I haven't looked at the auctions) instead of 4-8 weeks. If you need the cd's now and don't have broadband to download the iso's, going with shipit probably isn't an option.

[briancurtin]

please read the GPL before talking about it

[aysiu]

This has been discussed many times before:
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=68399
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=25287
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=8214
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=6525

[GeneralZod]

In particular:



Many people believe that the spirit of the GNU project is that you should not charge money for distributing copies of software, or that you should charge as little as possible -- just enough to cover the cost.

Actually we encourage people who redistribute free software to charge as much as they wish or can. If this seems surprising to you, please read on.


Taken from:

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

[_simon_]

As Ubuntu is free to download and free to order on CD, can people actually get away with selling it?

I notice that people are on ebay.

[prizrak]

Nobody is stopping them....

[Brunellus]

As Ubuntu is free to download and free to order on CD, can people actually get away with selling it?

I notice that people are on ebay.
Legally, yes. The GPL says nothing about *selling* GPL-licensed software; if you choose to charge someone for it that's OK. But you must make the sources available, and give him also the freedom to do the same.

Economically, maybe not. In an economy where almost everyone is connected to the Internet by high-speed broadband, it's a bit silly to spend money on a CD. But in areas where 'net access may not be so reliable, then it starts to make sense to buy a CD that has your whole OS and applications on it.

In this regard, perhaps Debian and the other multi-CD distros make more sense, since it is possible to get **Everything** burned onto CDs.

[Jucato]

I don't think there is anything wrong with selling these CDs as long as the price is just enough to cover shipping expenses, and perhaps a few extra for profits, but definitely not something that's overpriced.

OT: Funny thing about selling Ubuntu CDs... I went through a mall a few months ago and saw some stalls selling pirated software (welcome to the Philippines!). And guess what? Ubuntu was on the shelf, although mistakenly categorized under networking software. I just find it quite ironic...

[Brunellus]

I don't think there is anything wrong with selling these CDs as long as the price is just enough to cover shipping expenses, and perhaps a few extra for profits, but definitely not something that's overpriced.

OT: Funny thing about selling Ubuntu CDs... I went through a mall a few months ago and saw some stalls selling pirated software (welcome to the Philippines!). And guess what? Ubuntu was on the shelf, although mistakenly categorized under networking software. I just find it quite ironic...
wow. What's the going price for a CD now in the market-- P 100 still, per disc?

[Bandit]

As Ubuntu is free to download and free to order on CD, can people actually get away with selling it?

I notice that people are on ebay.

Legaly yes they can.
Now you can get free ones from Shipit, but that can take some time and comes out of Mark's pocket.
But if you want to spend 5 bucks and get one quicker without putting Mark in the poor house, go for it..
Not everyone has highspeed internet, so this also can help people with slower inet speeds.
Now, personaly I wouldnt sell nor buy a burned Uby CD for more then $5 USD.
Anymore then that and I would consider the price to high.

Cheers,
Joey

[aysiu]

You may want to check out these threads:
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=131960
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=129035
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=49649
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=68399

[Jucato]

wow. What's the going price for a CD now in the market-- P 100 still, per disc?

I'm not sure about other software, but that Ubuntu CD costed about Php 100 (roughly $2) . I think it's fair price considering the cost of using the internet and the price of blank CD's (around 12 cents?)

The ironic thing was that it was perhaps the only thing they were selling that wasn't really illegal :D

[Leo_01]

It seems really evil to sell ubuntu disk...
>_<
I guess there should be some sort of text on the ubuntu CD covers that says "This CD can be obtained free from www.ubuntu.com"

[Jucato]

It seems really evil to sell ubuntu disk...
>_<
I guess there should be some sort of text on the ubuntu CD covers that says "This CD can be obtained free from www.ubuntu.com"

Then I guess you also find selling Linux distros evil (although of course they are selling mostly services) :D

But I don't think there would be any need for a "this CD could be downloaded." Just think about this: Who the hell is gonna buy Ubuntu (or any Linux distro for that matter) without knowing what it is. And if they try to find out and google it up, they will inevitably find out that it could be downloaded or shipped for free (at least for now). :D

[Leo_01]

Then I guess you also find selling Linux distros evil (although of course they are selling mostly services) :D

But I don't think there would be any need for a "this CD could be downloaded." Just think about this: Who the hell is gonna buy Ubuntu (or any Linux distro for that matter) without knowing what it is. And if they try to find out and google it up, they will inevitably find out that it could be downloaded or shipped for free (at least for now). :D
Well...
there are some users out there being brainwashed by this large company and claims that maintaining linux is costly.

[easyease]

just found this on ebay........is it allowed?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/UBUNTU-LINUX-Cheap-Windows-Alternative-FREE-P-P_W0QQitemZ7224862541QQcategoryZ41881QQrdZ1QQcmdZV iewItem

[GeneralZod]

This topic comes up very frequently (e.g. here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=137565&highlight=selling+ubuntu+ebay)). In a nutshell, yes - it's all perfectly legal :)

[claes]

Yes it is.
It's free software, not free as in gratis but free as in hmmm free. I'm free to do anything with it (as long as I keep it free). But I can't see any reason to buy it. You can have the cd's for free (as in gratis). Check this:

https://shipit.ubuntu.com/

Claes

[dermotti]

Not a bad way to build up ebay "reputation".

[easyease]

thanks for clarifying chaps. i got my ubuntu discs from "shipit" and was amazed to see someone trying to sell the same discs on ebay. it seems a bit cheeky and fraudulent to me. i pity the poor sucker who pays for ubuntu.

[Jedeye]

the only reason I would see people wanting to pay for it would be if they could not d/l it and did not want to wait a month or so on shipit(it took a month to get to me, but perhaps others get it quicker)

[taurus]

As long as the seller only charges for the shipping of the CD, then I don't see anything wrong with that but if he/she is making a profit from it, then it is just totally wrong... [-(

[welders4linux]

As long as the seller only charges for the shipping of the CD, then I don't see anything wrong with that but if he/she is making a profit from it, then it is just totally wrong... [-(


There is one seller calling it Unbuntu XP and charging 7.99 Shipping.
That seems to be pushing it quite a bit.　but thats my 2 cents

[teasum]

Has anyone noticed that there's a fair number of listings on eBay selling Ubuntu CDs?

http://search.ebay.com/Ubuntu_W0QQfrppZ50QQfsopZ1QQmaxrecordsreturnedZ300

Is this against some sort of license or legal provision of Ubuntu? With the ability to order CDs from ShipIt for free... this all seems a bit sketchy to me.

Some people are selling refurbished old--and I do mean old--computers with Ubuntu installed, and that's great... but re-selling *free* Ubuntu CDs? C'mon...

[bjweeks]

Has anyone noticed that there's a fair number of listings on eBay selling Ubuntu CDs?

http://search.ebay.com/Ubuntu_W0QQfrppZ50QQfsopZ1QQmaxrecordsreturnedZ300

Is this against some sort of license or legal provision of Ubuntu? With the ability to order CDs from ShipIt for free... this all seems a bit sketchy to me.

Some people are selling refurbished old--and I do mean old--computers with Ubuntu installed, and that's great... but re-selling *free* Ubuntu CDs? C'mon...

This has been posted time after time. It's legal get over it.

[Sheinar]

Is this against some sort of license or legal provision of Ubuntu?
Not in the slightest.

[xXx 0wn3d xXx]

100 % legal. Ubuntu is open sourced so you can sell it, give it to a friend, and modify it in any way you see fit. Open source is great :)

[teasum]

Yeah, I realize I should have phrased my question differently... I know it's not illegal or anything, since it's Open Source... that's one of the reasons why I dig Ubuntu. But still... something seems odd about ordering a bunch of free CDs and then selling them on eBay.

But then again, I'm drinking bottled water... that's someone selling me what should be free, isn't it?

[Jedeye]

Also it takes a month to get cd's from ship it, and you could get them off ebay in a week. If you didnt want to wait.... or d/l it :-k

[teasum]

Also it takes a month to get cd's from ship it, and you could get them off ebay in a week. If you didnt want to wait.... or d/l it :-k

Aaaaah... I like that answer. Now I feel better.

[Orunitia]

Also it takes a month to get cd's from ship it

At least. I remember when I got Warty from shipit, it took at least a couple months.

[aysiu]

You're not the first to bring this up...

selling ubuntu on ebay.......is it allowed? (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=143827)
Ubuntu on Ebay???? (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=131960)
Ubuntu CDs on eBay? (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=68399)
Ubuntu CDs & eBay (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=8214)
Ubuntu on eBay (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=6525)

[kane77]

today I went to a PC store and I was surprised to see Ubuntu on price list... It's sold for $15... and I was wondering isn't it supposed to be free? (I understand that there has to be some sort of fee if it's distributed in shop... but $15...??)
That's just question...


I mean is it realy legal to sell ubuntu or have you got some places that distribute ubuntu like this . .?

[matthew]

today I went to a PC store and I was surprised to see Ubuntu on price list... It's sold for $15... and I was wondering isn't it supposed to be free? (I understand that there has to be some sort of fee if it's distributed in shop... but $15...??)
That's just question...


I mean is it realy legal to sell ubuntu or have you got some places that distribute ubuntu like this . .?Ubuntu is free for download and you can even order cds for free. It is legal and okay to charge for it in this manner--you are really paying for the service of installation.

[henriquemaia]

Ubuntu is free for download and you can even order cds for free. It is legal and okay to charge for it in this manner--you are really paying for the service of installation.

It makes sense.

[kane77]

thx... I was just curious... I'd ve bought it if the money went to ubuntu development...

[aysiu]

I see nothing wrong with a store charging for Ubuntu.

Not everyone has high-speed internet and a CD burner, and not everyone wants to wait two months for the free ShipIt CDs to arrive.

[bethko]

I think in my case it was 3 monthes, but I just have bad timing. I think it's good that stores are selling it. That gives it more credibility in some people's minds. And they are more likely to try it out if they have to pay money for it. I have been thinking of trying to sell copies as a kind of fundraiser. Deaf Blind Services, which I run, is trying to get into Linux as a better and cheeper way to provide our clients with accessible machines. There is still a bit to go but we are preparing to put our volunteers to work on some of the issues. I think I'm getting off topic. Anyway, my point is that selling the cds could raise money that would go towards better equipment, increase awareness of Deaf Blind Services and Ubuntu, and be benifical all the way around. The more people using the faster it will grow and the better it will be for my clients. And if stores selling copies make a few bucks on the side so be it.

Beth Koenig
bethko@gmail.com

[az]

I mean is it realy legal to sell ubuntu or have you got some places that distribute ubuntu like this . .?

Software freedom gives you the freedom to sell it, if you want to. You just can't change the licencing. *That* would be illegal and morally offensive.

That's one strength of the GPL. You cannot take GPLed software and make it non-free, like Mac OS did with Darwin and freeBSD.

[sagarhshah]

I saw it in a shop as well.
I was thinking to myself someone should make a beginners usermanual to go with the cd which sells in the shop. Using Ubuntu is easy as it is but some people would prefer to have a printed usermanual to help them through some things.

[nalmeth]

yeah, a user manual would be great, wouldn't need to contain much, just some link's to helpful sites.

[3rdalbum]

I even saw Knoppix being sold for $10 (AUD... about 7 US dollars) at **** Smith's. I see nothing wrong with selling copies of Ubuntu, I would buy a copy of Dapper as I have a low download limit.

A user manual would be great, I agree. If I decided to sell Ubuntu (or my services installing it), I would definately write up some good documentation; especially about how to install software as this is a needless source of confusion to Windows and Mac users.

[sagarhshah]

Beginners need handholding when they first try out something new on a computer as they tend to be scared that they might do something wrong and mess up the computer.

I remember when I first introduce my brother to ubuntu I had to point him in the right direction on where to get programs from and what can be done and the fact that there is no BSOD or antivirus programs for that matter:D

I remember making a simple thunderbird userguide for my mum. She's become pretty good at it as well once she got used to it.

[suziequzie]

I see nothing wrong with a store charging for Ubuntu.

Not everyone has high-speed internet and a CD burner, and not everyone wants to wait two months for the free ShipIt CDs to arrive.

I went in to a local computer store, really tiny place, and bought a microphone (for Skype... and it works like a dream). I was talking with the owner about his laptops for sale, because I'd like a second computer devoted to linux (specifically, Kubuntu). He started asking me about linux and why I liked it, and then he asked me if I had a disk I could give him. He owns a computer store, but had no high-speed access to download such a major file, but he would like to learn it and maybe offer it as alternative to Windows on his machines for sale.

I said "I can burn a disc for you and bring it in Monday."

He said thanks, and then refunded the tax portion of my purchase back to me by way of thanks.

$1.50 back for burning a single CD and helping to spread Kubuntu around. I was going to just give him the disc for free.

[suziequzie]

Beginners need handholding when they first try out something new on a computer as they tend to be scared that they might do something wrong and mess up the computer.

I remember when I first introduce my brother to ubuntu I had to point him in the right direction on where to get programs from and what can be done and the fact that there is no BSOD or antivirus programs for that matter:D

I remember making a simple thunderbird userguide for my mum. She's become pretty good at it as well once she got used to it.

I installed Kubuntu on my sister's machine. She lives 4 cities away. We use krdc/krfb to let me remotely control her machine, and we use skype at the same time so I can talk her through what I'm doing and coach her on how to use Kubuntu and install new programs.

(I have NOT enabled universe or multiverse repos on her machine. I did while I was setting up her environment and then quickly commented out those lines. I want to be sure she doesn't break her system or anything... unless I'm there.)

She really likes Planet Penguin Racer, and how stable her mozilla browser is.

The best part about remote control? I don't have to sit in her smoke-filled cramped apartment. She chain-smokes, and I end up smelling like an ashtray by the time I'm done. (Not a smoker... can't stand the smell...)

[shdgrao]

I have looked in ebay for the word ubuntu and I have found out that there are people who are selling copies of Ubuntu ... They sell the same copy that you can order or download for free in Internet. Is this legal?? Can I inform to ebay to ban this user??
Thank you!

[kaffelars]

This is legal. You can sell Ubuntu CD's yourself if you want to, but I guess the only reason to pay for it is if you can't download it yourself.

[Tomosaur]

It is legal - so long as they're selling the MEDIUM and not the SOFTWARE. Many people are unable to burn their own CDs, or for whatever reason cannot download the normal download. They can, therefore, buy a CD with Ubuntu already burnt onto it.

I don't personally think Ubuntu should ever be sold, since you can just request free CDs anyway, but it's not illegal.

[bruce89]

It is legal - so long as they're selling the MEDIUM and not the SOFTWARE.

As far as I know, the GPL allows the software itself to be sold. I'm not sure if they have to say that it can also be downloaded for free, but I do know they have to have an offer to buy or download the source code. If they do not provide a link to source code, then it is illegal under the GPL.

[shdgrao]

But Ubuntu sends you the copies in cd or dvd for free.. so this guy is selling the same thing that canonical have sent to him for free... He is not downloading ubuntu and after copy it in a cd and selling it. He uses the cd box that ubuntu sends to you for free!

Here is the add: http://cgi.ebay.es/Distro-Linux-UBUNTU-la-mejor_W0QQitemZ130014194011QQihZ003QQcategoryZ4619 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[FISHERMAN]

But Ubuntu sends you the copies in cd or dvd for free.. so this guy is selling the same thing that canonical have sent to him for free... He is not downloading ubuntu and after copy it in a cd and selling it. He uses the cd box that ubuntu sends to you for free!

Here is the add: http://cgi.ebay.es/Distro-Linux-UBUNTU-la-mejor_W0QQitemZ130014194011QQihZ003QQcategoryZ4619 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I could be handy for people who can't download/burn it, and don't want to wait for shipit(ebay is useally faster).

Anyway it is not illegal.Besides any person with a minimum of intellect will search for information before they buy a product. So they'll see that you can download/order it for free.

[NESFreak]

But Ubuntu sends you the copies in cd or dvd for free..

where can i get the dvd? I want it.

[FISHERMAN]

where can i get the dvd? I want it.

Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000G62IDU/104-2078352-8035153?v=glance&n=229534)

[Tomosaur]

As far as I know, the GPL allows the software itself to be sold. I'm not sure if they have to say that it can also be downloaded for free, but I do know they have to have an offer to buy or download the source code. If they do not provide a link to source code, then it is illegal under the GPL.

That's the one, curse my silly memory.

[Christmas]

I don't know spanish but however he seems to sell only 4 copies at 1,75 EURO one CD, so actually he is more like advertising for Ubuntu, not making profit. A total of 7 euro if I'm not wrong. Not much of a fortune, I don't blame the guy.

LE: Actually it would be a good idea for those who couldn't distribute all the CDs they received for free from Canonical.

[G Morgan]

As far as I know, the GPL allows the software itself to be sold. I'm not sure if they have to say that it can also be downloaded for free, but I do know they have to have an offer to buy or download the source code. If they do not provide a link to source code, then it is illegal under the GPL.

They don't have to provide a link. They could put it on another disc with the distribution. Also they can't legally point towards the Ubuntu source repos. If you distribute your legally required to provide your own source.

[Johnsie]

Selling Ubuntu on Ebay is fine. Not all users want to wait 4+ weeks for the shippit cd to be delievered. This is a good way of spreading Ubuntu to people who have slow/no internet connection and it helps raise public awareness. Ubuntu want their software to be spread out and this is a good way of doing that while at the same time rewarding those who chose to work for them by distributing their software.

It's even better to sell pre-built computers that have Ubuntu pre-installed though. These ebay sellers are just doing their bit for Linux and generally make very little if any profit.

I doubt Cannoncial or any of the other free software providers would complain about this unless it was related to a scam because those software developers are benefitting when more people use their software which is free anyway.

It also saves Ubuntu/Cannonical from having to pay postage for a shippit.

[rowanparker]

There are loads on eBay UK but they are only going for £2 (including postage) so there isn't any profit being made. I think it's a great idea as it promotes Ubuntu.

[delta99]

im kinda annoyed. I hate people making money off something free.

The ubuntu staff should contact ebay and get all the auctions off there, unless you dont mind people making money off your back.

check out: http://www.juelinux.co.uk
are sites like these even legal?
and why is it still even going?

Take a look here (http://search.ebay.co.uk/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.co.uk%2Fws %2F&fkr=1&from=R8&satitle=ubuntu&category0=)

:mad:

Or does anyone not care

[PapaWiskas]

Its legal. I have seen other posts like yours.

[Anonii]

im kinda annoyed. I hate people making money off something free.

The ubuntu staff should contact ebay and get all the auctions off there, unless you dont mind people making money off your back.

check out: http://www.juelinux.co.uk
are sites like these even legal?
and why is it still even going?

Take a look here (http://search.ebay.co.uk/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.co.uk%2Fws %2F&fkr=1&from=R8&satitle=ubuntu&category0=)

:mad:

Or does anyone not care
Free software, as defined by the Free Software Foundation, is software which can be used, copied, studied, modified and redistributed without restriction.


They have every right to do that afaik. And since there are 'tards that buy Ubuntu from them, instead of using Shipit or downloading it for free (as beer), they can and will continue doing it.

[Omnios]

They are not selling Ubuntu parsay but rather charging for the actual CD and or shipping and handling which is legal.

[delta99]

hi all

Ok, I see, I see. Well I guess its ok then. :shock:

I suppose if you need ubuntu quick and theres no other way, I guess you wouldn't mind paying £3-£4 towards it. Although I would like to see that money go to the developers and not some chumps pocket, but oh well.

thanks for replying ;)

[Omnios]

hi all

Ok, I see, I see. Well I guess its ok then. :shock:

I suppose if you need ubuntu quick and theres no other way, I guess you wouldn't mind paying £3-£4 towards it. Although I would like to see that money go to the developers and not some chumps pocket, but oh well.

thanks for replying ;)

I hear what you are saying and I thought about that for a bit but I think they do not mind it as it helps distrobute Ubuntu. Most of the people that buy the cd do not want to wait for ship it which can take a while and usually have dial up so downloading it is out of the question.

[aysiu]

There are a ton of sites like this, and my understanding is that they're for people who don't want to download an ISO or wait for ShipIt (which can take two months or more).


Our mission is to provide a comprehensive range of Linux distributions, on high quality media at affordable prices.
At CheapISO.com, we offer cheap CD's on many software which would save your time downloading it.

No more wasting your time downloading it whilst saving your internet cost by getting the software you need on CD's at CheapISO.com.

[lonce]

Thats exactly how they get around it. They arent selling the Ubuntu, they are charging you for the cd, time to burn, and shipping. Its like ebay when they sell something really cheap, just to rape you on shipping and make their money that way. It is disgusting. People will do anything for money these days. Hey, I have a bridge for sale, anyone want to buy it. Or my custom copied Xubuntu CD's. LOL.

[aysiu]

For those who have dial-up and are in a rush, this is not a rip-off at all. They're not "rap[ing] you on shipping." There is no cheaper and faster way to get Ubuntu if you're on dial-up.

The Ubuntu DVD on Amazon is more expensive. The ShipIt CD will take months to arrive. A download of an ISO over dial-up could take days and would most likely be corrupted during download.

This is one option for users in a particular situation. These people are not con artists. They're providing a service for a segment of the population.

Most people here won't use the service because they have broadband. (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=197933)

[got_nix]

yep all legal. read the gnu and you'll see. stores in jamaica do that too. Ignorance is a real bitch cause they can easily go to the site and order it and get a copy just the same with a 1 - 2 week wait.

[tribaal]

I think it's a rather good thing.

Free software (as in speech - libre) is usually regarded as a total economical failure. This is another proof that this point of view is not valid.

We give software, sell service.

And companies (or individuals) like this make the whole movement stronger, as they make free software available to a niche of people that otherwise wouldn't or couldn't obtain it.

- trib'

[DoctorMO]

Nah I think it's great, the more people selling Linux the better.

I know some people that don't want to touch linux because it's free and thus 'bad'. so I sold them ubuntu for £30 and gave the money to the FSF and few other projects. some people are just weird.

[tribaal]

I know some people that don't want to touch linux because it's free and thus 'bad'. so I sold them ubuntu for £30 and gave the money to the FSF and few other projects.

Lol

Way to go man :)

- trib'

[delta99]

Best things in life are free. :razz:

[BoyOfDestiny]

Thats exactly how they get around it. They arent selling the Ubuntu, they are charging you for the cd, time to burn, and shipping. Its like ebay when they sell something really cheap, just to rape you on shipping and make their money that way. It is disgusting. People will do anything for money these days. Hey, I have a bridge for sale, anyone want to buy it. Or my custom copied Xubuntu CD's. LOL.

Seems to be a common misunderstanding going on here... You can certainly sell Free software itself, they aren't using some loophole here:

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

[Free-Pete]

This guy is selling a live DVD on craigslist

http://ithaca.craigslist.org/sys/237615774.html

Is this even legal to sell linux? i dont know what type linux is on it but its fishy.

[benuski]

Yes, it is legal to sell linux. A lot of corporations, such as Red Hat for example, do so. However, whatever this guy is selling seems pretty sketchy. He doesn't even mention what distribution it is or anything. If you need a beginning Linux distro for free, use Ubuntu. You can download it for free from www.ubuntu.com, and you will get a rock solid OS, unlike whatever this guy is selling.

[ron999]

There's lots of (home made) Ubuntus for sale on ebay too.
If you've only got crummy internet download speed or no burner then you may as well pay them for their effort.
Sometimes on ebay they say "The software is free, you're just paying for a cd and postage".
It's not illegal.
Good luck to them.:cool:

[saphil]

It is legal to sell Linux. Note RedHat, SUSELinux, Mandriva and so on. Linux is free as in available for users to edit, adjust and pass on to others, as long as you include the source code so others can do what you did. This is a licensing issue, RedHat is transitioning into a more enterprise-friendly morph and have spun out Fedora Core as their community version that you can still download for free. You would have to download 1 or 2 dvds or 9 or 10 cds to get redhat enterprise. That is a lot of value added stuff and you would expect them to charge for sending all that plastic and the book to go with it. Some Linuxes, like Ubuntu are free down-load and free discs. This is a savvy marketing decision on the part of Ubuntu's parent company, Canonical. Canonical will charge you for consulting on Linux or open source. They have deep pockets, but they are making money around the distribution of the free and open source software.

-Wolf

[Mimsy]

...and remember to scan your new live CD for viruses before putting it in your Windows machine and booting from it. :)

/Mimsy

[IYY]

Looks like this guy made his own distro. So, him selling it might not be legal if he is not prepared to offer the source code. Otherwise, it's fine.

[smartalecks]

Apparently the distro he is selling is called "CoulKat Linux." I have never heard of this before and Googlind doesn't turn up more.

[aysiu]

As you can see, this discussion has been going on since 2004.

It is definitely legal.

Whether it's ethical or not... well, I think if the person is upfront about what she's selling (not the operating system but the time it takes to download and burn it and the cost of the blank CD it was burnt to and the postage to mail it), then it's perfectly fine.

If the seller gives the impression that you're paying for the operating system itself, well, that's just lying.

[jdong]

I completely agree with ayisu's viewpoint on this....

It's 100% legal to sell GPL'd software that you got for free (i.e. the Ubuntu distribution), as long as in selling it you do not deprive the new customers of any of the GPL-guaranteed rights (i.e. the freedom for them to get the sourcecode, redistribute it, etc). However, I think if you distribute the Ubuntu CD's, you are also responsible for providing source code if your customers request it from you.

However, ethically, I've got to say that I see ethical issues if one (1) charges an unreasonably high price or (2) tries to hide the fact that the software can be freely obtained.

This is especially true for just redistributing readily available ISO's (that you got through Shipit or downloaded and burned).

[Captain Kermit]

http://search.ebay.com.au/_W0QQfrppZ25QQfrtsZ0QQsassZgazsaQ5fnsw
This bloke (unfortunately, a fellow Australian) is making money by selling open source software such as Ubuntu, Mandrake, Fedora and open office on eBay to make a quick buck off other peoples backs. Just wondering whether this is actually legal or not, or if it breaks the GPL. I've posted this in the openoffice.org forums as well, to try and spread the word around and see if something can't be done.

[PatrickMay16]

It's legal, and they're doing nothing wrong. I'd much rather pay £3 than download all five huge CD image files for Fedora, or whatever.
This kind of thing is allowed by the GPL.

[Captain Kermit]

Righto then. Just making sure.

[Rhubarb]

The average price there is 5 bucks even for a DVD.
Sure there's a bit of a profit to be made there, but it sure helps those who can't afford / have broadband to download and burn the iso.
$5 is still much cheaper than a music CD / video DVD.
... And you won't find a LUG out in the country to help you out with isos.

[viper]

The average price there is 5 bucks even for a DVD.
Sure there's a bit of a profit to be made there, but it sure helps those who can't afford / have broadband to download and burn the iso.
$5 is still much cheaper than a music CD / video DVD.
... And you won't find a LUG out in the country to help you out with isos.

Totally agree !!

[56phil]

If I still had a dial-up connection, I would pay for a CD.

[MaximB]

if I still had a dial-up connection, I would use windows vista now
as I would never learn about Linux much and would never download an ISO, and even if someone gave it to me...it wold be hell for me to post on the forums and download programs and updates.
frankly - I think that Linux needs a fast connection, unless you a pro and know a lot about Linux.
when I used windows, I serf the internet much less.

[drivel]

Ubuntu spirit is FREE and SHARE!

[Terracotta]

Ubuntu spirit is FREE and SHARE!
Not FOR FREE and SHARE ON OUR TERMS.

[K.Mandla]

I've thought about buying four or five off ebay, or perhaps elsewhere. I gave away all my ShipIt CDs (I only took a five-disc set), and I would like something that looks better than my old raggedy Memorex CDs.

[DoctorMO]

Legal and welcome, if someone wants to sell Linux so be it.

The economics of selling free software is more complex that it might at first seem.

Unlike what Bill Gates and Steve Balmer say RMS doesn't mind you selling Free Software so long as they can still get if for free.

[lyceum]

Some people are more willing to try something they think is worth money. I have thought about giveing CD's to Half-Price books to see if they can sell them.

Also, if you burn a CD, ink it and mail it, it cost you $$s. You may as well ask or that much.

[Old Pink]

Here in the UK, it takes over a month for a shipit CD to arrive, understandably. And when using dialup, it'd take a long time to download 700Mb.

If I was in a no internet/dialup situation, I'd buy a CD/DVD for £5 before waiting over a month for one, but that's just my preference.

Sure, he's making money on the side, but if he's spending his time creating and listing the CDs, then he deserves a little cash.

As far as I can see, not only is it perfectly legal, it's perfectly fair. :)

[aysiu]

Merged with the other discussion about selling Ubuntu CDs.

[cmorgan47]

i was on craigslist looking at "computer" < $100 the other day and found a guy advertising a "windows 2000/xp alternative" for $25.

http://detroit.craigslist.org/sys/233268538.html

and now, it seems he's listing it as a vista alternative

[edit]
from his ad:

Have you ever wondered what MS Vista actually stands for? Let me enlighten you. Viruses Intrusions Spyware Trojans Adware.

i find this a bit dubious:

If you want to see screenshots, flash videos, and other infomation about the OS that I have created, just send me an email and I will send you some more info about it.

[jdong]

Well, to be fair looking from the screenshots I cannot actually pinpoint exactly what distro that is -- it appears to be customized.

So, saying that "he has created" it is taking a lot of credit, but I guess it can be true. As long as he includes a copy of the GPL and complies with providing source packages upon request, I see nothing wrong :)

[lyceum]

Well, to be fair looking from the screenshots I cannot actually pinpoint exactly what distro that is -- it appears to be customized.

So, saying that "he has created" it is taking a lot of credit, but I guess it can be true. As long as he includes a copy of the GPL and complies with providing source packages upon request, I see nothing wrong :)

This made me think. I do not sell the CDs, I give them away, but I to charge to install and cuotmize a Ubuntu on a PC ($30 and I don't really get the money, it goes into buying Ubuntu books and computer parts to help others). I give them a copy of the Ubuntu CD, a print out of the Ubuntu Desktop Guide (or K, X, Ed ubuntu). If anyone asked for the code, I am ready to give it. The GPL is in the back of the manual. Is this being compliant?

[darkhatter]

This made me think. I do not sell the CDs, I give them away, but I to charge to install and cuotmize a Ubuntu on a PC ($30 and I don't really get the money, it goes into buying Ubuntu books and computer parts to help others). I give them a copy of the Ubuntu CD, a print out of the Ubuntu Desktop Guide (or K, X, Ed ubuntu). If anyone asked for the code, I am ready to give it. The GPL is in the back of the manual. Is this being compliant?

perfectly compliant

[lyceum]

perfectly compliant

awesome, thanks!:-D

[deanlinkous]

This made me think. I do not sell the CDs, I give them away, but I to charge to install and cuotmize a Ubuntu on a PC ($30 and I don't really get the money, it goes into buying Ubuntu books and computer parts to help others). I give them a copy of the Ubuntu CD, a print out of the Ubuntu Desktop Guide (or K, X, Ed ubuntu). If anyone asked for the code, I am ready to give it. The GPL is in the back of the manual. Is this being compliant?
No big deal really since you are simply passing it on. If these are CDs that you burned then I would suggest including some type of written offer of source code and how they can get it from Ubuntu/Canonical. You do not need to provide the source.

[lyceum]

No big deal really since you are simply passing it on. If these are CDs that you burned then I would suggest including some type of written offer of source code and how they can get it from Ubuntu/Canonical. You do not need to provide the source.

Really? That is great! I put the "this disk maybe copied and re-distributed" on the disk. If I can just add info on the souce code on the disk that would make it really easy. I was always worried about people moving or wanting the code and not knowing how to reach me. Thanks for the info!

[Blondie]

"It just strikes me as wrong that someone can sell something that they obtained for free at the cost of another person"

I am sure that Canonical has thought of that. It is pretty much irrelevant when the point is to get Ubuntu installed on as many computers as possible.

Some people need to pay for something in order to beleive that is has value. The point is, it is getting out.

To get it spread out is why the cds are distributed for free in the first place.

I'd rather someone who orders a ten pack from Canonical but runs out of friends that are interested enough to give them all to put the surplus ones on ebay as put them in the garbage.

If they want to charge a buck or two extra for mailing them out the next day rather than the several week wait of getting them from Canonical then that's fine by me too.

[poeticas]

Hi Everyone,

I'm not one to post comments on a forum, but I saw what appeared to be an add on ebay. It looks as though someone is selling Edgy Eft.

Here's a link: http://cgi.ebay.com/FINALLY-A-REPLACEMENT-OS-FOR-YOUR-MAC-WITH-APPS_W0QQitemZ190055474331QQihZ009QQcategoryZ80051 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I don't know about you, but it seems to go against the Ubuntu philosophy.

[aysiu]

Hi Everyone,

I'm not one to post comments on a forum, but I saw what appeared to be an add on ebay. It looks as though someone is selling Edgy Eft.

Here's a link: http://cgi.ebay.com/FINALLY-A-REPLACEMENT-OS-FOR-YOUR-MAC-WITH-APPS_W0QQitemZ190055474331QQihZ009QQcategoryZ80051 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I don't know about you, but it seems to go against the Ubuntu philosophy.
As you can see (now that I've merged you with the other thread), you're not the first to bring this up, and it's fine to sell Ubuntu on eBay.

[taurus]

Selling Ubuntu on ebay has been discussed before in the Cafe so I will move this over there since this thread belongs in the Cafe.

[jkvv_1973]

LOL

I told him he was a low life heres how he responded
>>>>>>>


Out of curiosity and nothing else, what exactly do you find
objectionable. I attempted to anticipate some reasons and further
clarified my post. If you are able to criticize constructively, and in a
civil manner, I am willing to listen.

I'll try and help:

Is there anything ethically wrong with offering free Ubuntu CDs? (he was charging a certain amount but editted his original posting)

Is there anything ethically wrong with asking for the postage? (wow ubuntu.com hello)

Is there anything ethically wrong with absorbing the cost of the CDs and
my time to burn and ship them? (knock knock...earth calling KJ)

Is there anything ethically wrong with offering my services to help
people install Ubuntu (assuming, correctly, I would gamble, that there
are plenty of people who would prefer to pay someone to do it for them)? (coff coff low life...)

For the last one, the only possible criticism is that I would charge to
install, but then you are against the free enterprise system, and while
I too have some problems with it, it is the system that I live in. e.g.,
"Do you think Best Buy are "@#$%^" because their Geek Squad service
charges around $250 to install Windows?" Compared to their rates, I
think I was being quite generous with mine. (profiting of ubuntu...)

I'm all ears if you can phrase a cogent response to any of the above. If
not, please delete.
---


KJ

[aysiu]

He's right, actually.

It's fine for him to sell Ubuntu CDs and to charge for postage and the time to burn them and the cost of the CDs themselves.

Please read the rest of this thread for more details.

[Unterseeboot_234]

I was searching for a used XP for an aquaintence that was very unhappy his new computer with the Vista doesn't play a game he purchased over the internet. His Vista box won't let him use a Memory Stick either.

Over 20 sales posted on eBay.com with a boxed product that mimics M$ XP box packaging. Click on a eBay sales link, look at the screen shot, and the desktop does indeed look a lot like XP. But the clincher is --> BONUS Ubuntu CD included FREE!!!

And, then, there was another link trying to sell Ubuntu on a CD. I had to laugh. My philosophy is that Microsoft sells ignorance and they sell ignorance in packages. Those eBay sales look legit only if you're coming from the Microsoft world.

[antenna]

I'm sure some people find it convenient to be able to buy a copy of Ubuntu, perfectly legit.

[dyous87]

lol i just saw it on ebay after reading your post. Hey that guy has a few good points about how it's less of a hassle then Windows XP but what in the world is Linux XP anyway? It kinda looks like he just re branded Freespire???

[Ubunted]

I've seen those auctions, and quite frankly they disgust me. Dragging Linux down to that realm of "AbSOLuTelY FREEEEE!!111!11" is low. Then they try to pass it off as something it is not (Linux "XP") in an attempt to fool the customer.

I'm all for giving Ubuntu more publicity, but this is borderline fraud in my book. Stop trying to pass it off as "OMG Linux XP!!!" and sell it for what it is.

[Unterseeboot_234]

Hmmm, only $10 (or less). If Linux XP runs from a LiveCD that would let the diehards try Linux. Or, if there was a Vista version I could get my acquaintence's memory stick going (but then I'd have to fix her silly game because I made the memory stick work).

[Brunellus]

If anybody has a cause of action here, it's Microsoft--they'll want to protect their XP trademark.

[aysiu]

Calling it XP just makes no sense.

By the way, I've merged this with the other threads about Ubuntu and eBay.

[Unterseeboot_234]

I have no objections about anybody pushing Linux with whatever. I'm sure the dude will get some support issues with his software from his customers. I like Ubuntu. If it's Ubuntu with Bill Gates Buttons, great.

[lyceum]

This site is from an ad on Disrtowatch:

http://www.osdisc.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi/products/linux/ubuntu?ad=distrowatch

if they can sell Ubuntu, why can't people on e-bay? I am sure Canonical knows about it. Amazon sells Ubuntu, you can't get edgy from ship it anyway.

[deanlinkous]

I thought about trying to sell GNU+Linux on ebay for like $199.00 and see if some people just expect to pay a lot for something, some WANT to pay a lot for something so they can brag about it.

[lyceum]

I thought about trying to sell GNU+Linux on ebay for like $199.00 and see if some people just expect to pay a lot for something, some WANT to pay a lot for something so they can brag about it.

Charging money does work. I do not sell Ubuntu, but I charge money if someone wants me to load it and set it up for them. The people I charge stick with it, as they made an investment. The others play with the live CD and give it back.

[logeshnkl2004]

Hai everybody,

Eventhough i am great lover of Ubuntu, i am new to this Forum and of course this is the my first post here. My doubt is may i sell Ubuntu CDs and DVDs for a small amount here in india so that i may help ubuntu to spread in India and also i could make some money for my Pocket ??? Bcos here in India very few peoples are having Good internet connection. So for them downloading a CD-Image or DVD Image is a very difficult one. So no one is downloading or trying Linux. I think if i ship CDs and DVDs for very low price surely everyone will buy a copy and give a try to Linux and begins to use. So i want to know whether it is legal or not to sell CDs and DVDs of Ubuntu linux release ????

Thank in advance...

[billdotson]

I am not absolutely certain but I am pretty sure you could only sell them for the price of the CD or DVD and the cost it takes you to get it to them.. no extra money for your pocket. You could however learn Ubuntu inside and out and charge a minimal fee for support ;)

[az]

It is perfectly legal. Sell them for any price you want.

If you distribute a modified version, you must also provide the source code.

[aysiu]

Read this thread:
Is it legal/okay to sell Ubuntu/Linux CDs you got for free? (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=158892&highlight=sell+ubuntu+ebay)

[Th1eF`]

why you dont request the free cd's ubuntu offers and spread them? :D

[aysiu]

Legally, you can sell them.

Ethically, I would just charge postage and "handling."

Charging people for the actual operating system you got for free is a little underhanded--though, as I said before, it is legal.

[az]

Legally, you can sell them.

Ethically, I would just charge postage and "handling."

Charging people for the actual operating system you got for free is a little underhanded--though, as I said before, it is legal.

I dissagree. If providing the service of supplying the OS is worth more than the cost of the blank disk, an envelope and electricity, then what you have is a business opportunity.

Now, if you go around and claim that you wrote the whole thing from scratch and you obfuscate the fact that it is freely available elsewhere, it's a different story. But simply making a profit is not a crime (in the legal sense as well as the ethical sense).

[aysiu]

And that's what "handling" is.

Charging an extra few quid is one thing and could make sense--it is, after all, a service; not just a blank disk, etc.

But charging several hundred quid would be unethical.

[az]

But charging several hundred quid would be unethical.

It's supply and demand. That's the most basic rule of business.

If it is okay to charge, then it is okay to charge. It can't be ethically okay to charge a little, but not a lot. The rules of the market tend to take care of a vendor who overcharges - people don't buy.

But there is no rule that plots ethics versus price, because whether it is right or wrong to sell something is not a question of price. It's all or nothing. What you are saying boils down to a belief that making money is immoral.

We are not talking about someone who would prevent others from obtaining the software through other means, either. That would be unethical, but there is no way to do that in this case.

[ronacc]

the law of supply and demand only operates "ethicily" in a free market with open competition , where this is artificilay restricted, the law of supply and demand is invalid in both intent and fact.

[fruitsofherwomb]

Why don't you register the people that want it to ship it yourself, that way everyone wins.

Does Ship it go to India?

[az]

the law of supply and demand only operates "ethicily" in a free market with open competition , where this is artificilay restricted, the law of supply and demand is invalid in both intent and fact.

This is not the case here.

How would this prevent anyone else in India from doing the same thing?

[planetajay]

Hey users!
http://cgi.ebay.in/Exclusive-New-Ubuntu-7-04-Feisty-Fawn-CD_W0QQitemZ280112710860QQihZ018QQcategoryZ41881QQ tcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

This rogue is selling the Fiesty Fawn CDs on ebay for money and totally violating the spirit of Ubuntu.

Came across this one while brwsing the site and thought will let the community know about it.

Regards
Ajay

[pmj]

You do know that this is legal, right?

[tribaal]

It's totally legal and actually desirable for people with sluggish bandwidth.

- trib'

[eentonig]

Beside the fact that anyone paying for the official Ubuntu CD's being delivered would be a complete idiot. The guy has all the right of selling them.

[Pobega]

Redistribution of GPL code for money is completely legal, especially because someone may be able to use that CD for something (Maybe they burned out their only computer and need a new OS?).

Of course, that doesn't mean the person is an *** for trying to make money off of someone else's work. But I'll leave the opinions to everyone else.

[Lucifiel]

Nothing wrong with selling a cd especially when you kinda need the cd urgently but don't have spare bandwidth or not enough time for Shipit to send them to your address. Think this seller is in India?

Note: he's not even making much money off this, you know? 125 Rupees(Original + Shipping cost) = 3 USD , guys!

[Engnome]

$100 :) That is alot. http://www.auctiva.com/stores/viewstore.aspx?id=20287

Selling GPL code is indeed legal but don't you have to sell/give away the source as well to be completely legal? Or is it enough to point to ubuntu.com?

[aeiah]

$100 :) That is alot. http://www.auctiva.com/stores/viewstore.aspx?id=20287

Selling GPL code is indeed legal but don't you have to sell/give away the source as well to be completely legal? Or is it enough to point to ubuntu.com?

its enough to have it available on ubuntu.com

[MOS95B]

Where is that Auctiva site? Because either them ain't US Dollars, or that $1200 jump drive does more than store data http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_wow.gif
<edit> never mind. I get it now....

And, I used to give Ubuntu discs away. I did CD production for a living, so a few got made "accidentally". I coulda made a few bucks, huh??? :lolflag:

[maniacmusician]

I agree with all that posted. I don't think there's anything wrong with selling those CDs, as long as the situations is explained by the seller and a link is provided to ubuntu.com for people that do have enough bandwith and would rather download it than buy it.

[forrestcupp]

Nothing wrong with selling a cd especially when you kinda need the cd urgently but don't have spare bandwidth or not enough time for Shipit to send them to your address. Think this seller is in India?

Note: he's not even making much money off this, you know? 125 Rupees(Original + Shipping cost) = 3 USD , guys!

Evidentally most of you didn't read this post. The Buy it Now price for this cd is 100 rupees NOT dollars. 100 rupees = $2.44. The seller isn't really making any money, and this may be a quicker option for someone than waiting for it to be shipped from Canonical.

[aysiu]

I've merged this with the other thread on this same topic.

[ThinkBuntu]

I think it's fine, assuming you do a great job. This includes an md5sum check and printing some sort of label onto the disc, and then packing it in a disc envelope or CD case. You need to ship it in a padded envelope too.

I've used OSDisc, for example, with distros whose isos have given me trouble, namely Sabayon. Never had a problem with Ubuntu, Debian, or most others, however. A disc like this is nice too if you're installing it for people who are wary of leaving their current OS. Looks much nicer than a scrawled "Ubuntu Feisty Fawn 7.04 -- COOL!", not that anyone would write "COOL!", but you get my point.

[Engnome]

Argh thread merge :S


Evidentally most of you didn't read this post. The Buy it Now price for this cd is 100 rupees NOT dollars. 100 rupees = $2.44. The seller isn't really making any money, and this may be a quicker option for someone than waiting for it to be shipped from Canonical.

Well you didn't follow the link in my post where the same guy seems to (I have never used ebay) be selling them for $100 dollars. I followed the link to the ebay place and then clicked visit my store or something like that to see what more stuff he sold and their I saw the price $100.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure someone will :) )

[lakersforce]

It is perfectly legal to sellopen source and free software, as long as you notify the buyer of their rights.

[forrestcupp]

$100 :) That is alot. http://www.auctiva.com/stores/viewstore.aspx?id=20287

Selling GPL code is indeed legal but don't you have to sell/give away the source as well to be completely legal? Or is it enough to point to ubuntu.com?

Yeah, I checked out your link. When you go there and search for Ubuntu, it does say $100. However if you click on it to go to the auction, it actually says it is 100 rupees, which is $2.44. So it's an error on that first page.

[Lucifiel]

Yeah, I checked out your link. When you go there and search for Ubuntu, it does say $100. However if you click on it to go to the auction, it actually says it is 100 rupees, which is $2.44. So it's an error on that first page.

Hmmm... well, I checked out that 100 bucks link too. I'm guessing that $= Rupees as the default currency since it's likely a store which caters for customers based in India.

[Jhongy]

I'm still amazed that so many people don't 'get' the GPL.

The GPL is great -- it gives us freedom. So many people in this thread - and others - want to lock down users' freedoms by preventing them from making money from the OS.

What's wrong with people making a few bucks by spreading Ubuntu on eBay? Heck, what if I put together some awesome printed documentation, boxed it, then sold it for a major profit? Nothing's wrong with that, if people want to buy it. (However, you may have to look into the Ubuntu trademark and possibly change the name of the distro).

What if I sold it on eBay for $100 but provided a year of telephone support? Perfectly OK.

Am I free to do *ANY* of these things with Windows? Nope.

If the ShiPit option or the free download option is better, then people will choose to use that.

*That's* the great thing about the GPL... we're all free to innovate. Mark Shuttleworth himself really wants people to fork Ubuntu and create their own distributions... and they're absolutely free to charge as muxh as they like for them, as long as they pass on the freedom and provide credit where credit is due.

Linux is *not* a cheap alternative to Windows... It brings great freedom that should result in more entrepreneurship, more advancement of technology, that benefit everyone. It's wrong and against the sprit of the GPL to restrict any of this -- including restricting people from selling Ubuntu at a profit.

Of course, the usual rules of commerce should apply -- be open and honest about what you are selling.

[guitarmaniac]

I actually had a bit of a go at someone on ebay a few months back cause he was doing just that, he sent me back a polite email saying that it was perfectly legal etc that made me feel rather foolish, still pretty stingy if your not selling them solely for profit.

[xyz]

It would not even occur to me to sell something I got for free despite being in very financial dire straights.

I find this utterly ""+"#%ç))=...and all the rest of it!

It's not a matter of it being legal or not.

[forrestcupp]

It would not even occur to me to sell something I got for free despite being in very financial dire straights.

I find this utterly ""+"#%ç))=...and all the rest of it!

It's not a matter of it being legal or not.

That's true. I have a table that I was given; I didn't pay for it. When I want to get rid of it, I won't sell it. I'll give it away because it was given to me. This is one of the problems I have with the GPL. But then again, when someone creates something and puts a GPL license on it, they know that it's ok for someone to turn around and sell it. So if you create something and have a problem with this, don't put a GPL license on it. But GPL is the popular thing around here, so you pretty much feel like you have to.

[Footissimo]

Rather than moaning, why not just out-compete these people? I am tempted to put up an ebay advert stating that Ubuntu (other other linux distro..or OOo etc etc) are free and can be found here, here or here..but that if you wish to give a donation (of say 10p or some tiny amount) to keep this advert going and / or to donate to Ubuntu then press the 'buy it now' link.

I presume that this wouldn't be against the ebay T&Cs?

[forrestcupp]

Rather than moaning, why not just out-compete these people? I am tempted to put up an ebay advert stating that Ubuntu (other other linux distro..or OOo etc etc) are free and can be found here, here or here..but that if you wish to give a donation (of say 10p or some tiny amount) to keep this advert going and / or to donate to Ubuntu then press the 'buy it now' link.

I presume that this wouldn't be against the ebay T&Cs?

It may be against the T&Cs. Doing it that way is technically donating for nothing. On ebay, you have to offer something physical. It can't be an idea or a spiritual or emotional thing.

[Footissimo]

You could offer a list of download mirrors on a text file and state in the advert that is the case..or perhaps even compete with the people selling disks - say charge 50p (?price of disk, case, envelope and ebay charge) plus postage and still state where you can get it for free in the advert

[Thomas Delbeke]

Hi,

I stumbled on this site through the official Ubuntu support page. If you click buy a CD you get a list of local distributors. For Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourgh) the only link is the following:

http://www.linuxbelgiumshop.be/

They sell the following item:

PROMOTIE: Ubuntu 7.04 AllInOne Pack

Productomschrijving

Artikelcode: SWLIUBU-xUAiO
Ubuntu x86 and x86_64, Kubuntu x86 and x86_64 and Edubuntu.
Make your collection complete with this amazing pack. All the software you need, with free and automatic updates.

Voorraad: 7

Garantie:

Item Prijs Aantal Bestel
Ubuntu 7.04 AllInOne Pack 34,00 €(1372BEF)

Terug naar de vorige pagina

I think 34 euros (46 US$) for a combined pack and 8 euros (11 US$) for just one feisty CD, without shipping,
is just too much. I think that this should no longer be the only link for three European countries. I am a regular Ebay customer and my suggestion is this: I sell all your CD's and DVD's totally none profit at Ebay. Costs will be a few eurocents for advertising on Ebay plus a small percentage on sales plus maybe 2 euros postage cost, if ordered uninsured and with jewell case. All I have to do is go to the post office once and ask for shipping costs and envelopes once, and afterwards put some letters in the mailbox around the corner (hopefully every day!). The normal postage cost for CD's and DVD's is 1,04 euro with zero increment for additional items up to 2 kg, excluded the envelopes. If you sell me x CD's for 1 euro a piece, the ebay cost included shipping, tax, sales rake, galery picture fee etc. will be 2,5-3 euros max for a CD with jewel case max for me to break even, with delivery to the customer within 2 bussiness days guaranteed. I can ship all over Belgium and advertise + communicate in three languages, French, English and Dutch. If necessary also in German, but my German is poor. If you send me free DVD's and CD's however, I can get them to the customer for 2 euros in two bussiness days guaranteed. This will be a lot cheaper for you too, than just sending stuff from the US.

Cheers,

Thomas

[mips]

You never mentioned the time it takes to burn, package and drive to post office etc in those costs.

Time=Money

[mikewhatever]

Who are you talking to? Why not contact Canonical for this?
http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/contactus

[Wiebelhaus]

Hell man , you pay shipping and I'll send you one.... I'm sure 80% of our community would.

[Thomas Delbeke]

Hi,

I didn't mention time cause I offered non profit service. So, 80% of the community will ship me a DVD for 2 euros in two bussiness days. Ok, I'm ordering ten. Please give me your coordinates.

[mips]

The Free in Linux has actually got very little to do with price and more with the license and philoshy behind it.

[Dr. C]

The Free in Linux has actually got very little to do with price and more with the license and philoshy behind it.

Actually there is nothing wrong with selling or reselling Free software for whatever the market will pay, The right to do this is one of the freedoms of free software so taking it away would make the software non free or semi free. Software that has most of the freedoms of free software but restricts redistribution, or use for profit tends to fall into the semi - free category.

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.html
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

[aysiu]

Occasionally, this issue comes up again. Please read the thread I merged yours with.

[popch]

I had a look at the eBay page mentioned by the OP. Prices for the distro were in the range from USD 1 to 2.5. No one is going to be rich at that rate. I have no objection.

There also was an ubuntu linux on offer for USD 330, but this one had a laptop attached to the media.:-\"

[Thomas Delbeke]

quote

What we are, unapologetically, is hostile to people who seem to be unwilling to think or to do their own homework before asking questions. People like that are time sinks — they take without giving back, and they waste time we could have spent on another question more interesting and another person more worthy of an answer. We call people like this “losers” (and for historical reasons we sometimes spell it “lusers”).

end quote

Hi, not that I take this personal, but I find it quite conflicting with the Ubuntu (humane) way of thinking and code of conduct of being respectful to others. It actually seems rather arrogant to me. It seems to insinuate that hackers are somekind of special people that one has to look up to or something. Well, basically if you think your special because you know "the code" or "the hacker community" and because you are one of the happy few that use their PC as something more than an electronic typing machine or email terminal, then that's fine, but you still have to prove it. We all grow old and die, and then whatever you know, from GW Basic to C++ and beyond is left for the worms to recycle, it is what you do with it that matters. I find that there are a lot of programmers in the Linux community that help to keep it the best OS around for many purposes. It is in the service though that Linux is lacking.

This brings me back to the topic. If people in my country have to wait for 4 weeks before they receive a CD, chances are they are going to loose interest. People dont want to read books just to get there computer to work, and right now you pretty much have to buy a book in a store or online to get a demo DVD right away that you can use to experiment with. The next best thing is to order a DVD on Amazon UK. Sure, there are a lot of people in my country that have orderd ten cd's and are willing to give demo's. But let's be honest about it, they are just lying there, people have no need for it. People don't want to stop buy for a cup of Oxfam coffee and see the guy from the supermarket perform a demonstration. People don't have the ambition to save the rain forest and breaking an unethical monopoly while forfilling their basic PC needs. They are just looking for instant satisfaction and they are right. If they can't order a live DVD online from within their own country or pick one up in the PC Shop, they will interpret it as a lousy service, and so do I, although I am convinced of the merits of the OS itself.

It is all to easy to crack down on peoples ideas when they are volunteering for something, but it doesn't contribute to real life solutions. In this context I would like to state that the this post is still unaswered in my opinion. You crack down the idea, which is fine for me if you have a better one. Then you move to post to some place else, because you have had the discussion in the past, fine too. So now the post is vertically classified and still unanswered. I am not entitled to an answer because I am a loser and a time sink? Well whatever but you are not solving the problem. The problem is that you are now shipping CD's for free from the US to Europe, where probably over a million people are currently using Ubuntu, without even having a local distribution centre. Sure you have everyone wanting to proof they're the finest Ubuntero, and that they are doing more for the good cause then all the other guys, and if that is making them feel warm inside, then I'm happy too. But it will take more then that to tackle a monopolist in a giant industry. This is actually the second time I felt that people just ignore my ideas or my offered contribution, without giving any thought to it. I don't feel miserable about it, but I find it a pitty, I would rather like to see my ideas cracked and replaced by more constructive ones.

The only thing I'm saying here is that you have a few hundred people in my country that have demo material, but if you want to order a free one you have to wait for four weeks fot it to arrive from the US. It is unefficient. People don't care if you have the best software, if they have to pass by the communist department of software, just to get one. Sure the great dictator may pay for my free CD's to be shipped from the US, but it costs him money and it costs me time. There are certainly hundreds of volunteers in Belgium that have noble ambitions, but it is not very productive. The way things are going now it may still take years before you can get a live DVD delivered in your mailbox, or pick one up at the PC store where you buy your PC, while there are literally lying hunderds in the Ubunteros closets. You may be a non profit organisation, but you can't escape the reality of the market place.

Cheers,

Thomas

[aysiu]

quote

What we are, unapologetically, is hostile to people who seem to be unwilling to think or to do their own homework before asking questions. People like that are time sinks — they take without giving back, and they waste time we could have spent on another question more interesting and another person more worthy of an answer. We call people like this “losers” (and for historical reasons we sometimes spell it “lusers”).

end quote

Hi, not that I take this personal, but I find it quite conflicting with the Ubuntu (humane) way of thinking and code of conduct of being respectful to others. It actually seems rather arrogant to me. Whom are you quoting? I can't find that quotation anywhere in this thread.

[Thomas Delbeke]

Sorry, I was quoting mip's link here


http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

[aysiu]

Sorry, I was quoting mip's link here


http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
That's a part of mips' signature. It doesn't address this particular thread's topic.

[Thomas Delbeke]

OK, I will contact canonical when I receive the CD's I just ordered and repeat my proposal. In the mean time: I don't know if it is because this thread was merged, but in my XP SP2 partition I can't browse pages for this thread. I only get a window on top of the page and I have to select a single post. but I can't go to the next post. I have to sroll down the window again. Ubuntu works fine though. Cheers.

[Thomas Delbeke]

Hi, I sold 3 CD's so far. Will you please check out the link and see if the information is correct? Thank you.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ubuntu-7-04-32-bit-CD-Linux-OS-Feisty-Fawn_W0QQitemZ330156428756QQihZ014QQcategoryZ4619Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thomas

[LokeTheDog]

Let's say that I want to make money...

I'm an energetic person considering to press many cds (in the order of thousands) and sell them for 10-100 USD each on the street. My theory is basically that if a seller offers a low price, he's saying "my product is worth little", but if he puts a high price on his product, he's saying "my product is worth a lot". I will leave a lot of room for haggling. I might put on a price tag of 80, but go down to 40 after a while, and then throw in cd of Open Office for windows for a total of 45. Of course, I will also tell them that they can return their copy to me for a refund at any time and for any reason.

The cds will come with a short manual explaining how to install and some basic tips. More importantly, it will come with links to ubuntu.com, partly for support, and partly for the source code. The software itself, however, will be identical to the ubuntu you download from ubuntu.com.

I will not always directly tell customers that they can download it for free, but if they ask if they can get it cheaper somewhere, I will be honest and say they can get it for free online.

The same applies for copying. I will not advertise that it can be copied without restriction (because i feel that would be implying that its not worth anything), but if they ask, or if I feel that the customer would be impressed with it, I will tell them how GNU works.

I will be doing this in a place where high speed internet access is considered a necessity of life, so what I am providing is not at all an alternative to downloading. What I am providing is a living person to tell the customer what Ubuntu can offer him. I will explain to them how Live CD works, how easy it is to dual boot, etc. If a customer is not satisfied with the software, I will buy back the copy at any time and for any reason. While I do not officially offer any support, I will make sure customers always feel they can come to me for questions simply because I value customer satisfaction.

Some of you probably think "Hey, I do just that, but for free!". But the thing is, people find that suspicious. Why is this person so desperate to get me to use this software? Furthermore, you spread Ubuntu slowly if you do this only one day in a month, but if you do this for a living, 8 hours every day, you will get a small but steady stream of converts. Lastly, I will behave like a professional salesman: I will not get upset if some people just don't want it no matter how much I explain and I will never act like this is some crusade against the overlords.

Now, do you feel that this would be unethical? As I've explained, the cost far outweigh the cost of CDs or even getting an high speed internet connection just for downloading Ubuntu. The documentation and support offered will be nothing more than some quite basic advice. So what do you say, would I be good or evil for doing this?

[saulgoode]

Now, do you feel that this would be unethical? As I've explained, the cost far outweigh the cost of CDs or even getting an high speed internet connection just for downloading Ubuntu. The documentation and support offered will be nothing more than some quite basic advice. So what do you say, would I be good or evil for doing this?

The setup you describe would be a violation of the terms of the GPL (for components of Ubuntu which are GPLed). Because you would be engaging in a commercial endeavor -- which charges beyond just the cost of distribution -- you would not qualify for the exemption from making source available (the exemption offered under Section 3c of the GPL). You would be required to personally make available to your customer the source code at a cost no greater than what you charged for the binaries (if you charge $80 for binaries then you could theoretically charge $80 for the source code). A link to Ubuntu source repositories would not be sufficient.

[LokeTheDog]

The setup you describe would be a violation of the terms of the GPL (for components of Ubuntu which are GPLed). Because you would be engaging in a commercial endeavor -- which charges beyond just the cost of distribution -- you would not qualify for the exemption from making source available (under Section 3c). You would be required to personally make available to your customer the source code at a cost no greater than what you charged for the binaries (if you charge $80 for binaries then you could theoretically charge $80 for the source code). A link to Ubuntu source repositories would not be sufficient.

I see, Interesting, thanks.

[LokeTheDog]

Selling source DVDs besides the binary CDs is really no problem at all: the stock can be tiny since I don't expect anyone who would have use for it would pay for it. So, from the lack of replies, I guess people actually don't find my suggestion unethical?

So why am I not seeing any people doing this? You'd only need a very small number of buyers per day to make it profitable. It just seems like the most effective way to spread ubuntu. If people pay for a CD rather than just receiving it, they're also more likely to actually put in some effort to get it working.

[deepapriyesh]

I am not very sure about the legality of selling Open Source products. But i just found somebody selling ubuntu cds (not sure if its his version of ubuntu) for a price on ebay.

The link to that product is..

http://cgi.ebay.in/Ubuntu-7-10-Gutsy-Gibbon_W0QQitemZ120191623382QQihZ002QQcategoryZ418 81QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Is it okay to sell Open sourse softwares like that??

[p_quarles]

I am not very sure about the legality of selling Open Source products. But i just found somebody selling ubuntu cds (not sure if its his version of ubuntu) for a price on ebay.

The link to that product is..

http://cgi.ebay.in/Ubuntu-7-10-Gutsy-Gibbon_W0QQitemZ120191623382QQihZ002QQcategoryZ418 81QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Is it okay to sell Open sourse softwares like that??
Yes.

[smartboyathome]

I think it isn't ok to sell it without an agreement from Ubuntu (because of the trademark thing), but it would be fine if you sold it under a different name, with the source available.

[YoDaddeh]

I don't think so, since they don't make you pay for free cd's that are sent wherever from around the world. I think you need special authorization from Canonical seeing as how they withhold the license to Ubuntu.

Just my guess though......

[deepapriyesh]

I use ubuntu on my pc... i am glad to use it rather get hanged repeatedldy on a windows system. An as a student was glad to get an OS at no cost and which still works!! So got little annoyed by seeing somebody make money out it, when he is getting it for free. But just wanted to confirm if its legal.

[Lostincyberspace]

legally yes, ethicaly sort of. There is a clause some where that alows you to do it. And if it is only like a dollar or two then it is about paying for the cds and other things like that. But then there's the gut feeling that you can have about things.

[khurrum1990]

I am not very sure about the legality of selling Open Source products. But i just found somebody selling ubuntu cds (not sure if its his version of ubuntu) for a price on ebay.

The link to that product is..

http://cgi.ebay.in/Ubuntu-7-10-Gutsy-Gibbon_W0QQitemZ120191623382QQihZ002QQcategoryZ418 81QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Is it okay to sell Open sourse softwares like that??
Yeah its perfectly legal to sell Linux or Ubuntu cd's at any cost.

[aysiu]

I am not very sure about the legality of selling Open Source products. But i just found somebody selling ubuntu cds (not sure if its his version of ubuntu) for a price on ebay.

The link to that product is..

http://cgi.ebay.in/Ubuntu-7-10-Gutsy-Gibbon_W0QQitemZ120191623382QQihZ002QQcategoryZ418 81QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Is it okay to sell Open sourse softwares like that??
As you can see, from the thread I've merged yours with, it's perfectly legal. Don't worry.

[OzzyFrank]

Wow, lot of different opinions on this, and many aren't just getting the point. Guys selling Ubuntu CDs on eBay aren't doing anything wrong, and hardly making a huge profit off it. And those who say such sellers must really be desperate for such little profit after time and costs like eBay and PayPal fees are neglecting to factor in there are some willing to put up with that in order to help spread the word about Ubuntu and other open source OSes... and of course make it easier for those with dialup if they choose to pay $5 plus shipping. Nothing like finally downloading that 699Mb ISO and seeing it fail the md5 check!

At least this way people get a verified copy of the disc. Well, I know one of the sellers promises that all discs are checked for errors. He also has this huge ad with lots of info, and also gives away a free bonus disc chock full of things like info and themes (metacity, gtk, icon, etc). Apparently, he has even had a bunch of buyers who decided to give Ubuntu a go purely from seeing his ad, and now they're on their way to ditching *******!

Cheers

[ACJarrett]

I'd say it matters what you are really selling in the end.

It is morally wrong to sell Ubuntu Software because it is provided free of charge by the people that work on it.

However, It is ok to sell things such as Your time if you're helping install it or create CDs, or for the price of the CD itself.

Basically don't scam people that aren't informed.

[gameryoshi600]

thats pointless. i could burn it to a CD or request free ones

[Cifra]

If it converts just 3 people to Linux, it's worth it

[NE Key]

He is not selling Ubuntu ... he is selling a SERVICE.

Would you say to your kid;
"Go to the shop,buy some discs, download Ubuntu, burn it as an iso, do the MD5 checksum and bring it to me when it is ready."

That is worth a few quid/5 dollars/4 euros.

How many discs or how much time have you wasted with bad burns/not making an iso/ etc.

Seems a perfectly valid SERVICE to offer. To create a good disc and send it to you.

[wzaqc]

Ive been running through this ads and wonder if they are in right of reselling Ubuntu and Kubuntu Cds and DVDs

http://calgary.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-computers-VISTA-WONT-RUN-Get-Linux-on-CD-DVD-for-under-11-incl-S-H-W0QQAdIdZ51977213

Thanks

Bill

[Frak]

Yes they can. The only thing they cannot do is sell the Operating System on the disk, but they own the right to charge as much as they want for processing, media, and packaging.

Though Shipit (https://shipit.ubuntu.com/)does this for free.

[dasunst3r]

Yes, but see here to determine your upper bound for a "reasonable price": https://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=202&osCsid=d08cb2532d1308c72bd0dbed501a1f3a

[aysiu]

Yes, it's legal.

[retro89]

Is it ok to sell a burnt copy of Ubuntu and open office? What should I sell them for? Im not looking to make money but over the cost of cds and get people interest in Linux.

[Tyler H]

Why don't you have them give you a blank CD?

[viljun]

Go on.

[kk0sse54]

i would ask for donations and raise funds that way if you plan on really burning a whole bunch of CD but I would definitely not sell them considering that people could just go to the internet and download and burn the iso themselves.

[dizee]

It's perfectly legal, yes.

[aysiu]

Is it ok to sell a burnt copy of Ubuntu and open office? What should I sell them for? Im not looking to make money but over the cost of cds and get people interest in Linux.
I would order free official CDs from Ubuntu (https://shipit.ubuntu.com) to give to people (they look nicer than the ones you burn - no offense). If you feel guilty, give the money you make as donations to Canonical.

[gameryoshi600]

I would order free official CDs from Ubuntu (https://shipit.ubuntu.com) to give to people (they look nicer than the ones you burn - no offense). If you feel guilty, give the money you make as donations to Canonical.
where is the donate button on their website?

[aysiu]

where is the donate button on their website?
http://www.ubuntu.com/community/donations

[OzzyFrank]

im kinda annoyed. I hate people making money off something free.

The ubuntu staff should contact ebay and get all the auctions off there, unless you dont mind people making money off your back.
:mad:

Or does anyone not care

Are you truly serious here??? Since when is it a crime to make money off something "free", especially if it is made clear that it is free, and people are happy to pay for it. I am one of those horrid ebay sellers who sells Ubuntu, and I can tell you I get many thanks for what I do... and I can also tell you I ain't getting rich off it! The price covers ebay and Paypal fees, printing, etc. Not to mention the bonus disc of goodies I offer (which has had people post feedback about how amazing it is). And why on earth would anyone actually thank me for selling them something they can get for free?

Ever heard of "dialup"? It sucks... I know, I had it until recently. Then you have those people with broadband who can barely ever download an .iso that isn't corrupted... or they don't know how to burn .isos... or they do know how to yet never end up with a working copy.

So, while you can live your life as you please, I would suggest getting angry about things that actually matter... like morons who drive absolutely everywhere while complaining to their kids about global warming and the climate crisis!

[OzzyFrank]

PS: I've had quite a few newbies customers buy Ubuntu solely because of my rather extensive eBay ad. Seriously, some hadn't even ever heard of Ubuntu, and a couple didn't even know what Linux was till then. I've even had Linux users contact me about the ad, thanking me for putting such effort into trying to attract more users. So I think for getting little more than my costs back Canonical would look favourably on what I am doing, not look down upon it.

A note of interest: Never had one Linux/Ubuntu user contact me to tell me off about this, though I did have one eBay user contact me asking me why I am selling OpenOffice.org, when it is free. He truly did not seem to grasp the fact that:

1. You cannot list an item on eBay for $0.00
2. That ebay fees would still be charged even if I sold them for 1c (I'd get charged 30c)
3. That Paypal (eBay) would charge me 75c to receive that 1c
4. That my time downloading, verifying, burning, verifying, printing, etc, was indeed worth something
5. That if I did do all this at a financial loss, it would not be balanced by people suddenly offering to mow my lawns or clean my roof guttering (so why would I bother?)

[Absolute-Zero]

Now, i am not a sales man so don't get me wrong. I have seen many websites that resell the same Ubuntu on cd/dvd's and which you can buy from their website ? so is this legal on or no ? Can you actually resell the same cd but for hire price lol ?

[skymera]

I don't think websites charge for the CD.
They merely charge for postage.

Canonical is nice enough to let CD's out for free.

Selling it? i dont think its illegal.

[jpeddicord]

Yes, it is perfectly legal:

From http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney

Does the GPL allow me to sell copies of the program for money?

Yes, the GPL allows everyone to do this. The right to sell copies is part of the definition of free software. Except in one special situation, there is no limit on what price you can charge. (The one exception is the required written offer to provide source code that must accompany binary-only release.)

Whether or not it is right to do so it a different question.

[Absolute-Zero]

All it is, i saw websites selling the same cd that you can buy from this ubuntu website they sell smae but for higher price lol

[skymera]

Yes probably postage, in order for you to get it quicker.

I've had about 20 free Cd's which ive given to about 30 people who now dual boot =D

[ChameleonDave]

Yes, of course you are entitled to charge for the trouble for the time and materials involved in making CDs, as well as any delivery costs.

If, however, you asked for $50 then you would obviously be misrepresenting it as a commercial product that is not available for free. That would be fraud in my opinion, but I'm not aware of a legal precedent that would support such a verdict.

[The Cog]

Actually, I think you can charge whatever you like. But at higer prices you won't sell many - people will buy them elsewhere or download them. In practice you won't be able to sell them for more than the value of the buyers time needed to go elsewhere.

But then again, people sell bottled water for silly prices so maybe you will have some success, although you won't get much repeat business fo course.

[alienexplorers]

Why not sell them for the cost of the disk and postage plus a dollar for you work. That seems fair to me.

[bumanie]

Yes it is legal to sell ubuntu OS to pay for time/materials/postage etc. - but not the OS itself. Higher charges by the seller can sometimes be that they offer an aftermarket support service, much canonical does. I guess the sellers don't tell the customer about ubuntu forums!

[Absolute-Zero]

Okay, hey you can even start your business now i guess

[aysiu]

Yes, you can sell it.

[Absolute-Zero]

Oh my god, how come my post made 11 000 views wow

[aysiu]

Oh my god, how come my post made 11 000 views wow
It's merged with another thread on the same topic.

[Frak]

Again, because the OP may not know this:

As I remember, it is ILLEGAL to sell the Ubuntu CD's that Canonical sent to you free of charge. I was told this some year ago by a Canonical rep over email. I don't know if it still holds true, but I certainly wouldn't take a chance.

[HermanAB]

The disks are a gift and the first sale doctrine applies. Therefore you absolutely may sell the disks. It is perfectly legal to sell them for whatever price you can negotiate.

However, I suggest that you give the buyer a 50% discount over your purchase price - fair is fair - so $0/2 should do it.

[bodselecta]

I was looking through amazon for a book and a banner displayed a site called thelinuxshop.co.uk selling ubuntu on cd.
Can ubuntu be sold like this? Seems odd when its gnu....

[acelin]

Yes it can be...

[Sealbhach]

Yes, sometimes I buy from them. Sometimes I can't be bothered to burn an ISO.


.

[dje]

Yes, sometimes I buy from them. Sometimes I can't be bothered to burn an ISO.


.

you know you can get them sent free from canonical at http://shipit.ubuntu.com ;)

[RiceMonster]

The GPL allows it to be sold by a third party.

[wrtpeeps]

THe canonical FREE one is actually REALLY slow.

So by paying I am assuming you'll get quicker delivery.

[Sealbhach]

you know you can get them sent free from canonical at http://shipit.ubuntu.com ;)

Yes, I know but it takes like 4 weeks or something.

For the sake of $7 or $8 it's handy to have a good CD within a day or two.


.

[dje]

THe canonical FREE one is actually REALLY slow.

So by paying I am assuming you'll get quicker delivery.

true true but personally id rather wait (or just download it) :)

[bodselecta]

The GPL allows it to be sold by a third party.

but why?

I didn't see anything about support or any extras. I suppose if you can sell something then people will?

[wrtpeeps]

but why?

I didn't see anything about support or any extras. I suppose if you can sell something then people will?

As I said, it's probably cause you'll get it faster than if you got it from canonical.

[NovaAesa]

Also it's nice to have a pretty CD rather than one with "Ubuntu" written on there with texta. The CD artwork from Canonical is pretty boring.

[original_jamingrit]

Ubuntu's intended on being available for free for everyone. So if you buy a disc from Canonical or another company, someone else who isn't able to buy one can get a free disc that much sooner. Plus, buying it shows your support for Ubuntu.

[Sealbhach]

Ubuntu's intended on being available for free for everyone. So if you buy a disc from Canonical or another company, someone else who isn't able to buy one can get a free disc that much sooner. Plus, buying it shows your support for Ubuntu.

The disk from Canonical is sent free of charge, but takes about 4 weeks.

Yes, I like a CD with decent artwork, not some scribble, and I'm supporting Open Source enterprises as well.


.

[wrtpeeps]

The disk from Canonical is sent free of charge, but takes about 4 weeks.

Yes, I like a CD with decent artwork, not some scribble, and I'm supporting Open Source enterprises as well.


.

Takes about 4 weeks if you're lucky :lolflag:

[speedwell68]

Why not just download it? Having it packaged and posted is bad for the environment. Who cares that a distro disc just has a hand written label, it is the contents of the disc that are important, not the pretty packaging. Last time I had to pay for an OS on CD, it all ended in a big blue screen.:D

[lisati]

One of the shops in my area sells copies of Ubuntu. Their web site points to wwww.ubuntu.com for support

One link can be found here (http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/48715c26000ad73a273fc0a87f3b0682/Product/View/XC4146)

[Fingers & Thumbs]

I've seen ubuntu disks for sale at computer fairs, online and in some computer shops. But I wonder, should retailers be obliged to make a donation/payment?

[wrtpeeps]

I've seen ubuntu disks for sale at computer fairs, online and in some computer shops. But I wonder, should retailers be obliged to make a donation/payment?

you mean like a license to sell it? :lolflag:

[tubasoldier]

This topic pops up so often. Someone fairly new to Ubuntu or open source get all worried about people selling it. Because Linux is licensed under the GPL you can sell it. You can change it and you can recompile it. The only thing you have to do is make the source code available. Thats it.

Its not unethical, its not stealing, its not dishonest in any way.
In all reality if you are looking to donate to make Linux better then it is best to donate to your favorite applications instead of a specific distro, imo.

[Sealbhach]

Why not just download it? Having it packaged and posted is bad for the environment.

Some people would argue that running computers is bad for the environment. Where will this madness end?:)


.

[Frak]

but why?

I didn't see anything about support or any extras. I suppose if you can sell something then people will?
Faster delivery and media handling. I can charge you $1,000,000 for that if I wanted to, and it would be legal. Canonical couldn't do anything about it.

[SirThom]

People will make a buck where they can.

Also, <3 Bush.

I tried selling gmail invites back when it was invite only (is it still?), but I hopped on the bandwagon about a month too late (the market was flooded by then).
I would never sell free ubuntu CDs though.

[Frak]

I tried selling gmail invites back when it was invite only (is it still?), but I hopped on the bandwagon about a month too late (the market was flooded by then).
I would never sell free ubuntu CDs though.
Free signup, I think they got rid of the cell-phone signup too.

[barbedsaber]

legal, yeah, OK, no.

I will kill your family if you consider this, if you do, please PM their address.


(kidding)

[trevelyan]

anyone know where i can download the wallpaper they used? the blue one, thats the listing's image (it looks like a neuron to me..)

[pmlxuser]

Ubuntu give you the freedom of what to do with the system, the medium and everything.

Sharing is the spirit of ubuntu.
Selling is the spirit of Human beings.
But Ubuntu is for human beings

Therefore we can conclude that humans can sell Ubuntu and Ubuntu wont complain..Ha! Ha! Ha!..

[blackgr]

http://www.osdisc.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi/products/linux/ubuntu/inst_5x.html
I find it unforgivable to make profit of something that is distributed freely around the world. Is this action acceptable?

[JohnFH]

I forgive them.

Yes it's acceptable.

How much profit do you think they will get?

[blackgr]

well if i sell 10 of these its like robbing you.
http://www.osdisc.com/cgi-bin/view.c...ad=distrowatch

[howefield]

http://www.osdisc.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi/products/linux/ubuntu/inst_5x.html
I find it unforgivable to make profit of something that is distributed freely around the world. Is this action acceptable?

Are you crazy ? ;)

It is perfectly legal and you might object but they are doing nothing wrong, and barely covering costs.

[haemulon]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with it whatsovever.

They're providing a useful service.

They put the OS on a DVD for you and ship it to you.

I'm sure people with slow connections who want the OS on a DVD quickly will find it useful.

How about the Linux magazines with the distro disks, is that bad too?

Nothing wrong with it at all. Besides only $1.95. really now.

[snowpine]

Yes, it is acceptable. The law allows you to sell something that you got for free. At least in most countries. :)

[dasunst3r]

I'll give you "unforgivable": Just go on eBay and search "Ubuntu." It seems like they misrepresent it as Windows. And as much as I love for Ubuntu to be the #1 OS, it's not.

[conehead77]

I thought they were selling it at about $50 (and i think that would be a good idea). Some people just _want_ to spend money, it makes them feel good.
But $1.95 is really just the price for the CD/shipping.

[binbash]

There is nothing wrong there.It is a good service to sell linux distro cds.The only wrong thing here is they are not selling ubuntu but cds/dvds : )

[cmay]

http://www.linuxpusher.dk/
i shop here. they sell debian and ubuntu on nice burned cd with a picture of tux and they donate 5% of the sales to the distro you buy a cd with. they sell debian cups btw. which i have 8 of now. i like to support debian as much as i can. point is that its not illegal or immoral as such unless you giftwrap it in a commercial closed source appliance and refuse to hand out the sources for the content of the programs and the linux core. as i understand the gpl license.

[wersdaluv]

They make CDs then send 'em to you. Take it easy. It's perfectly legal and it's a good thing if people want to get Ubuntu through any means.

[Johnsie]

If people are willing to buy Ubuntu then let them.

[ssam]

LinuxCD.org and OSDisc.com both put in money towards the distrowatch donations. http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20090202#donation . and i guess they also help support distrowatch with advertising money.

before i had broadband, the sites that sold linux cds where essential.

[ibutho]

http://www.osdisc.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi/products/linux/ubuntu/inst_5x.html
I find it unforgivable to make profit of something that is distributed freely around the world. Is this action acceptable?

As others have mentioned, what they are doing is perfectly legal. I remember about 9 or 10 years ago when I started with Linux, resellers were one of the main ways to get a copy of a Linux distribution. They provide a valuable service especially to those with slow, capped or no net connections.

[mihai.ile]

I think a little research doesen't hurt before creating topics with "unforgivable".

Just saw the news about distrowatch giving money to projects from the above post... pretty cool!

[gn2]

http://www.osdisc.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi/products/linux/ubuntu/inst_5x.html
I find it unforgivable to make profit of something that is distributed freely around the world. Is this action acceptable?

Yes, it definitely is acceptable (http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=17).

[Foster Grant]

Yes, it definitely is acceptable (http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=17).

Indeed.


Each contributor grants you a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free patent license under the contributor's essential patent claims, to make, use, sell, offer for sale, import and otherwise run, modify and propagate the contents of its contributor version.


http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.txt

[KiwiNZ]

Amended thread title

[forrestcupp]

They're only selling it for $1.95. That's pretty much the price of a CD and postage. Big deal.

But anyway, according to the GPL license, they could legally and ethically sell Ubuntu or any GPL software for $1000 if they could find someone ignorant enough to buy it as long as they hold to all of the GPL rules. They would just need to find people who don't know that they can get it free.

If you don't want others to be able to sell your software, you don't release it under the GPL license.

[Vince4Amy]

Nope, that's absolutely fine, all they're doing is covering the costs of the install media and probably a very small profit in time. Nothing wrong with this at all and it will be useful for people who don't have good enough connections to download a full distro.

[Dragonbite]

http://www.osdisc.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi/products/linux/ubuntu/inst_5x.html
I find it unforgivable to make profit of something that is distributed freely around the world. Is this action acceptable?

While Ubuntu provides free CDs via ShipIt there is still the chance they will not ship it, change your order and/or you cannot request older versions. Plus from ShipIt, there is still time between when it is accepted and your receive it that is minimal with paid-for CD places.

I've ordered a few CDs from an online retailer. This was vital when I was on dial-up! Heck, if it weren't for Ubuntu's ShipIt I may have never tried Ubuntu in the first place.

Now if it were found out that the company made large requests of CDs from ShipIt and turned around selling THOSE (supplied for free) at $5 (an obscene price for a CD) then that would not be acceptable (by me at least).

[jonathonblake]

But anyway, according to the GPL license, they could legally and ethically sell Ubuntu or any GPL software for $1000 if they could find someone ignorant enough to buy it

Once upon there was an eBay reseller offering OOo for US$5K per copy, support not included. AFAIK, they didn't sell any at that price. It did, however, make a useful comparison, when selling services to corporations. "Look, we only charge US$1K per seat, per year, and include 7x24x366 support".

jonathon

[Kvark]

If a clueless user buys Ubuntu for $50 from a 3rd party and then discovers they paid for free junk and are not entitled to support despite being paying customers they'll feel ripped off. I don't know if there is but there should be a consumer protection law against selling software without support just as it's illegal to sell consumer electronics without warranty.

Selling for $1.95 is okay though, at that price it's clear they're paying to get a CD with free software without support shipped to them.

If support is included I see no problem with charging more. I imagine it's pretty common for companies to buy IT solutions from local consultants that consists of "We'll install <Linux Distro> and set everything up for you. If you have any problems with the computers we'll come over and fix it right away".

[richg]

Someone lives under a rock. Best Buy has been selling the Ubuntu OS disc.

Rich

[Mason Whitaker]

Not such a horrendous thing as you are making it out to be :|

[forrestcupp]

Once upon there was an eBay reseller offering OOo for US$5K per copy, support not included. AFAIK, they didn't sell any at that price. It did, however, make a useful comparison, when selling services to corporations. "Look, we only charge US$1K per seat, per year, and include 7x24x366 support".

jonathon

Sure. You'd have to be ignorant or filthy rich to pay good money for something that you could legally obtain for free. But if it's GPL, it's not illegal, just crazy.

[happysmileman]

It's perfectly legal to sell open source software, whether it's "ok" is entirely opinion.

$1.95 with free Worldwide Shipping is ok in my opinion, it's perfectly fair price and barely profitable, though in general I dislike when anyone except the actual authors sells OSS for profit, these people aren't misleading people or claiming it's anything more than it is or that it can't be gotten for free, they're simply offering to burn the disks and send them for a small fee. As someone without a DVD burner and on 512kbps internet I'd gladly pay more than that price (if I had any way of paying for stuff online) for a DVD to be burned and sent to me.

[Dragonbite]

It's perfectly legal to sell open source software, whether it's "ok" is entirely opinion.

$1.95 with free Worldwide Shipping is ok in my opinion, it's perfectly fair price and barely profitable, though in general I dislike when anyone except the actual authors sells OSS for profit, these people aren't misleading people or claiming it's anything more than it is or that it can't be gotten for free, they're simply offering to burn the disks and send them for a small fee. As someone without a DVD burner and on 512kbps internet I'd gladly pay more than that price (if I had any way of paying for stuff online) for a DVD to be burned and sent to me.

It all comes down to what the market is willing to pay. If you're the only person with a CD burner and internet access and your town of 100 are just dying to use Ubuntu then you can charge a helluva lot more than somebody in the middle of a well-connected city where internet is everywhere and just about everybody is highly tech-savvy.

[hoopz23]

At that price, I see nothing wrong. They're barely covering costs plus there're probably people who aren't tech savvy enough to know something about Live CD's and stuff like that.

As I see it, they're helping spread the word of Linux and Ubuntu.

[jonathonblake]

$1.95 with free Worldwide Shipping is ok in my opinion, it's perfectly fair price and barely profitable,

Looks like a money losing proposition to me.


The biggest apparent money losing proposition I found, was a vendor selling commercial software for US$0.25, (MSRP US$25.00. Contrary to appearances, the sale price was not a misprint, and it was genuine, authorised software.) which included shipping and handling. You didn't have to buy anything else, or sign up for anything. You did have to pay for it by credit card.


jonathon

[Grant A.]

Sure, this may look like the typical burn Linux on a CD an sell it thing, but take a look at the program icons on that dock in the seller's description...

Auction Page (http://cgi.ebay.com/UBUNTU-linux-desktop-edition-Live-Install-CD-New-PRO_W0QQitemZ170310633092QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Com puting_Software_Software_SR?hash=item170310633092)

Misleading, much?

Discuss.

[swoll1980]

$1.38 I don't think he's after a profit

[dbbolton]

Just ask him how he managed to install Dreamweaver and Fireworks on Ubuntu and whether his CD comes set up with the advertised software.

[Grant A.]

$1.38 I don't think he's after a profit

It wasn't that I was posting about, but rather the fact that he has internet explorer, dreamweaver, flash, fireworks, and photoshop CS2 icons in his dock.

[swoll1980]

It wasn't that I was posting about, but rather the fact that he has internet explorer, dreamweaver, flash, fireworks, and photoshop CS2 icons in his dock.

Can you get those programs to work with Ubuntu?

[Grant A.]

Can you get those programs to work with Ubuntu?

Nope, Internet Explorer is Windows only, and Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Flash, and Fireworks are all Windows/Mac OS X only.

[Orlsend]

CS2 works flawless in wine.

[swoll1980]

CS2 works flawless in wine.

so does IE6 wasn't sure about the others

[mrsteveman1]

I've run Photoshop and IE on Ubuntu before. Wine works though not very well.

[dbbolton]

Just a hunch, but I don't think his CD comes with any of these apps.

[namegame]

Nope, Internet Explorer is Windows only, and Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Flash, and Fireworks are all Windows/Mac OS X only.

As others have said, that's not totally true. With the appropriate hardware and user-skill, these can run in Wine. I have gotten IE to run in Wine along with the Windows executable for Firefox.

[Giant Speck]

Operating System: DOS, Linux, Mac OS 7, Mac OS 8, Mac OS 9, Mac OS 10, Mac OS 10.1, Puma, Mac OS 10.2, Jaguar, Mac OS 10.3, Panther, Mac OS 10.4, Tiger, MAC OS X 10.5, Leopard, Palm OS, Pocket PC, Unix, Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 2000, Windows 2003, Windows CE, Windows ME, Windows NT, Windows Tablet PC, Windows Vista, Windows XP, RUNS IN LIVE MODE + VIRTUALLY ANY HARDWARE!


OMG! Does that mean I can run it on my TI-92 Plus Graphing Calculator?!?!?!

[swoll1980]

Just a hunch, but I don't think his CD comes with any of these apps.

No but on the back of my xbox 360 box It shows all kinds of games that don't come with it, not misleading just advertising it's abilities. If these programs can't be run under Ubuntu then that's pretty shady If they can then no harm no foul

[Hallvor]

Nope, Internet Explorer is Windows only

IE 5 and IE 6 does run on GNU/Linux,

http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page

[Giant Speck]

Just a hunch, but I don't think his CD comes with any of these apps.

No, but his ad is misleading due to the fact that he makes it appear that Ubuntu can do everything that Windows can. Sometimes that statement is true, but in other times, it is indeed not true.

[leonardo_neo]

$1.38 I don't think he's after a profit

That is where we make mistake when we see something selling for very low price. We underestimate the profit in mass production.

Imagine even if he can manage to sell 100 CDs everyday with 30 cent profit, still he will be making 900$ a month doing nothing!

Second think is that he is not doing this job for charity or promoting Ubuntu. He must be seeking some profit.

Fortunately there has been 0 bid till now ;) lol

[namegame]

That is where we make mistake when we see something selling for very low price. We underestimate the profit in mass production.

Imagine even if he can manage to sell 100 CDs everyday with 30 cent profit, still he will be making 900$ a month doing nothing!

Second think is that he is not doing this job for charity or promoting Ubuntu. He must be seeking some profit.

Fortunately there has been 0 bid till now ;) lol

He's actually beating the prices of his competitors. OSdisc.com charges $1.95, and LinuxCD.org charges $1.75. I really don't see anything wrong with what the seller is doing. If anything, maybe more people will take notice of the Open Source Community and Linux.

[mips]

Nope, Internet Explorer is Windows only, and Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Flash, and Fireworks are all Windows/Mac OS X only.

Sigh...


Fireworks- http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=665
Dreamweaver- http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=183
Internet Explorer- http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=25
Photoshop- http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=17
Adobe Flash- http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=3903
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=6289



No, but his ad is misleading due to the fact that he makes it appear that Ubuntu can do everything that Windows can. Sometimes that statement is true, but in other times, it is indeed not true.

Absolutely nothing misleading with this sellers add. Everything he shows in the dock can be done.
Those programs in his dock can actually run in Linux via Wine.

@leonardo_leo,
Nothing wrong with the price he is charging. It's cheaper than most online shops.

*** are people bashing this guy? Not enough MS or KDE news to bash today?

[swoll1980]

That is where we make mistake when we see something selling for very low price. We underestimate the profit in mass production.

Imagine even if he can manage to sell 100 CDs everyday with 30 cent profit, still he will be making 900$ a month doing nothing!

Second think is that he is not doing this job for charity or promoting Ubuntu. He must be seeking some profit.

Fortunately there has been 0 bid till now ;) lol

True, but you add in the time it would take to process, maintain, and ship everything , and it would be more work than what it's worth. It may be some half fetched get rich quick sceem, but not a very good one.

[mips]

No but on the back of my xbox 360 box It shows all kinds of games that don't come with it, not misleading just advertising it's abilities,....

+1

Although I suspect some people here would expect to find those games inside the box the way they are carrying on.

[Grant A.]

Sigh...


Fireworks- http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=665
Dreamweaver- http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=183
Internet Explorer- http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=25
Photoshop- http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=17
Adobe Flash- http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=3903
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=6289


natively

The authors of these programs have absolutely no intention of them working for Linux, hence, they are made only for Windows/Mac OS X. Internet Explorer even uses WGA.

By posting a screenshot of Ubuntu like that they make it look like it looks like that out of the box and natively works with those programs with no trouble.

By the way, I did not intend for any bashing to occur, I just wanted to share something odd that I noticed on eBay about Ubuntu.

[swoll1980]

natively

The authors of these programs have absolutely no intention of them working for Linux, hence, they are made only for Windows/Mac OS X. Internet Explorer even uses WGA.


I don't see how this would matter. Whether, or not they were developed for Linux, has little to do with whether they work with it, or not. The manufacturers of cooking oil never intended for it to be used as diesel fuel, but it works flawlessly, so would it be unethical for me to advertise it in this way? I would hardly think
anyone (who knew what the programs actually were anyways) would think that it was part of the included software.

[mips]

natively

The authors of these programs have absolutely no intention of them working for Linux, hence, they are made only for Windows/Mac OS X. Internet Explorer even uses WGA.

By posting a screenshot of Ubuntu like that they make it look like it looks like that out of the box and natively works with those programs with no trouble.


He never claimed they work natively. Assumption is the the mother of all #&*# ups, people should not assume anything.

There was nothing deceitfull about his auction. Those applications CAN run although with an extra step.

[Kevbert]

Ubuntu installing with only 64Mb RAM ? Recommended minimum is 256Mb for graphic install and less than 256Mb for alternate (according to 8.10 Ibex download page).
Does the guy work for a certain US competitor and just want to give Ubuntu a bad name?

[s.fox]

I have IE6 working on my Ubuntu with no problems. :D

[iamtheroman]

I just wondering If selling burnt copies of Ubuntu on Ebay including my own detailed installation instructions complies with Ubuntu's terms.

If it is allowed, would I be required to put any terms directly on the listing?


thanks

[Bearded-flower]

i wouldnt say so because ur making profit out of that.
its calles FREEWARE for a reason

[Edutastic!]

I guess you could charge for the service and the writing of the directions, but it seems shady.

[Ericyzfr1]

I just wondering If selling burnt copies of Ubuntu on Ebay including my own detailed installation instructions complies with Ubuntu's terms.

If it is allowed, would I be required to put any terms directly on the listing?


thanks

There is already a free book for Ubuntu users, what additional information would you provide that would justify you to charge for a CD?

You need to come up w/ something that makes a real difference to the user and show that there is a value, my opinion.

[Greyed]

Er, good thing it isn't freeware then, huh?

Considering there are people who have been selling CDs of different Linux distributions for decades now I don't think there's a problem. Though one would hope you were honest in stating the CDs weren't from Canonical, didn't come with support from Canonical and were at least half-way decently produced. ;)

[linuxguymarshall]

Under the GPL it is 100% allowed. It even says it on the (K)Ubuntu FAQ. (http://www.kubuntu.org/faq#sell)You just have to release the source code if your customers ask for it. Other than that feel free. But most people who don't know what it is will just Google Ubuntu before they buy it and see that it is free for download.

So can you? Yes.
Will you sell any? Highly Doubtful

[LesterPalooza]

I guess you could charge for the service and the writing of the directions, but it seems shady.

Charge for costs of burning and blank CD's

[oldsoundguy]

As long as you specify that the charges are for your burning efforts/materials/time and for the documentation and NOT for the FREE software, you are legal to sell your WORK.

[Ericyzfr1]

all the documentation is pretty much available by forums or google. I think there is always people that find it easy to make a couple of bucks on someone else work that is given for free!!! Unbelievable and sad too!

[dmizer]

As long as you specify that the charges are for your burning efforts/materials/time and for the documentation and NOT for the FREE software, you are legal to sell your WORK.
This is incorrect.

The GPL explicitly allows you to legally charge for any software released under the GPL license. This includes Ubuntu, most Linux distributions, and a great deal of FOSS like OpenOffice.org.

http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney

[Didius Falco]

It's legal, but that's a can of worms I'd never open. You'll get buried in poor ratings, with lots of disparaging comments and links to free downloads of the .iso and/or links to the Canonical website where you can get professionally burnt copies shipped out for free.

And all that is before you sell a few to people that don't know better and then demand a refund when they hit install problems, or find out your selling what they could get for free.

It's legal to hit yourself in the head with a hammer, too - but I wouldn't recommend that either...

[Newuser1111]

selling burnt copies of Ubuntu on EbayThat could be good for Dial-Up users.

[linuxguymarshall]

I think there is always people that find it easy to make a couple of bucks on someone else work that is given for free!!! Unbelievable and sad too!

That is what open source is all about. It is a good thing, and the creators of the software want you to do it.

[DougieFresh4U]

Browsing through Craigslist this morning, I came accross a couple of postings for Kubuntu and Ubuntu cd's that some one got from 'ship-it'.
They were selling each for $25.
I personally don't approve of them doing this.
What does every one else think?
I was gonna 'flag' the postings, but I will wait and see.

[Pasdar]

Its allowed.

[Johnsie]

It's fine because people are allowed sell Ubuntu. A bit greedy with the pricing, but all above board. If people are too stupid to shop around then that's their tough luck.

[howefield]

I was gonna 'flag' the postings, but I will wait and see.

And the justification would be what, exactly ?

You may not like it, but nothing wrong in it.

[pwnst*r]

Judging by that screenshot, I think your theme needs to be flagged.

[HappinessNow]

Browsing through Craigslist this morning, I came accross a couple of postings for Kubuntu and Ubuntu cd's that some one got from 'ship-it'.
They were selling each for $25.
I personally don't approve of them doing this.
What does every one else think?
I was gonna 'flag' the postings, but I will wait and see.

It would be nice to see people sell Ubuntu on the street corners actually.

Great to see them trying to sell Ubuntu on Craigslist/ebay/etc.

[slakkie]

Judging by that screenshot, I think your theme needs to be flagged.
I lolled and agree :)

[DougieFresh4U]

Judging by that screenshot, I think your theme needs to be flagged.

I agree :)
Just installed Xubuntu Hardy and dist-upgraded to Intrepid then Jaunty via alternate cd's as this machine is not well and not handling cd's to well.

[howefield]

Judging by that screenshot, I think your theme needs to be flagged.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


:lolflag:

[thatguruguy]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


But ugly is universal.

[RiceMonster]

Judging by that screenshot, I think your theme needs to be flagged.

No kidding. My eyes are burning.

[t0p]

There's no reason to flag the postings on Craigslist as there's no crime in selling Ubuntu CDs. There are perfectly respectable shops and websites that sell Ubuntu and other distros' install disks. Far from being wrong, it's actually providing a useful service. Some people don't have the time or inclination to download and burn a Linux disk image; selling CDs means these people are able to try Linux without any fuss. If Linux is to become more popular it needs to be easy to get hold of and try.

Personally, I think charging $25 is outrageous. But if there really are people out there who are willing to pay $25 for something they could legally download themselves for free... well, it would probably be a crime not to take their money.

[lotharmat]

A fool and his money are soon parted!

[howefield]

But ugly is universal.

Oh no it isn't.....

[sudoer541]

Browsing through Craigslist this morning, I came accross a couple of postings for Kubuntu and Ubuntu cd's that some one got from 'ship-it'.
They were selling each for $25.
I personally don't approve of them doing this.
What does every one else think?
I was gonna 'flag' the postings, but I will wait and see.

Relax! nothing wrong with it. I sold couple of ubuntu CDs and I made a good profit.
My prices go higher every year lol+. ubuntu 9.10 Cd for just $25! LTS are sold for $60 lol+

[adelphos]

It's nice to see that some are profiting from selling Ubuntu. Some people are more likely to try something if it costs money, oddly enough. And the freedom to charge for re-distribution is one of the important freedoms protected by the GPL.

[forrestcupp]

It's legal, but even if it weren't, why should you worry about it?

Just think about it. The description is pretty minimal. Anyone who would be interested would have to already know what it is. Anyone who already knows what it is knows that it can be obtained free of charge. Even the people who know this but are willing to pay because they can't download it will know that they can probably obtain a CD a lot cheaper than $25.

The guy probably isn't going to be selling any copies.

[Cam42]

I've sold a few. For $5, and not $25.

[ssam]

can't be from ship-it as they will only send 1 CD per address. (unless he is only selling 1).

more likely from the canonical shop. you should order some from canonical and then undercut his prices.

not everyone has fast network. i relied people selling linux CDs back when i only had dial up. though i could get most distros for about £2 per CD.

[Dan_Dranath999]

god. That browser theme IS ugly

[sliketymo]

But ugly is universal.

You can't fix ugly.Makes me reach for some Pepto !LOL

[schauerlich]

Relax! nothing wrong with it. I sold couple of ubuntu CDs and I made a good profit.
My prices go higher every year lol+. ubuntu 9.10 Cd for just $25! LTS are sold for $60 lol+

I keep thinking you're Joeb454 with that avatar.

[RiceMonster]

I keep thinking you're Joeb454 with that avatar.

Me too.

[metalf8801]

I hope there giving part of there profit to the Ubuntu foundation
http://www.ubuntu.com/community/donations

[The Toxic Mite]

God. That browser theme IS ugly

I agree with you here.

[Techsnap]

I hope there giving part of there profit to the Ubuntu foundation

Why should they, it's not like Ubuntu was made by just a few people who are college students or something, Canonical does appear to have quite a bit of money from what I've read.

Also to "some" people it will make Ubuntu more appealing because they've given it a price because some people may value Linux at nothing meaning it's useless. But yeah the GPL permits them to sell this so as much as people may disagree there's nothing they can do to stop them from selling it.

[Joeb454]

I keep thinking you're Joeb454 with that avatar.


Me too.

That's why I've changed my avatar...not that I wanted to, but I thought it was me too, which is bad.

[NoaHall]

That's why I've changed my avatar...not that I wanted to, but I thought it was me too, which is bad.

Hey sudoer, stop bullying the admins!

[Groucho Marxist]

Browsing through Craigslist this morning, I came accross a couple of postings for Kubuntu and Ubuntu cd's that some one got from 'ship-it'.
They were selling each for $25.
I personally don't approve of them doing this.
What does every one else think?
I was gonna 'flag' the postings, but I will wait and see.

I've seen the same on eBay and it's just as frustrating.

[staf0048]

I've seen the same on eBay and it's just as frustrating.

Why is it frustrating? They're spreading the word. There's nothing wrong with it. People may find value in buying a CD vs. spending the time downloading the OS, buying a CD-R, USB drive, etc, burning it, then finally installing it.

Think of it as though they're selling the service described above vs. selling the software.

I say, if they've found a market out there, go for it.

[forrestcupp]

If someone doesn't want their software taken and sold by someone else who wasn't involved in its creation, then they shouldn't release it under the GPL. GPL says you can do that.

[sudoer541]

I keep thinking you're Joeb454 with that avatar.

then you should respect me!!! L0L+:P jk

[sudoer541]

I hope there giving part of there profit to the Ubuntu foundation
http://www.ubuntu.com/community/donations
No! I would prefer to give it to some people who cant afford to eat. Canonical already has tons of money.

[sudoer541]

That's why I've changed my avatar...not that I wanted to, but I thought it was me too, which is bad.

OMG!!! LOL!! I am so sorry!! LOL+

Joe, do you want me to change it? :P

[pwnst*r]

OMG!!! LOL!! I am so sorry!! LOL+



...

[mickie.kext]

You all said that is legal, but I can not say if it is legal based from informations that OP provided.

Here is the deal: One can sell GPL'd software for any price, but he has to be prepared to provide sources free of charge if customer (who have received binary from him) asks for it. He must offer "equivalent access" to sources, which means, if he sold binary, sources must be either included in package or offered on separate CD. If seller fails to provide sources by himself, he is in violation of GPL and can be legally prosecuted. And he cant say "download sources from internet" unless sources are on his site. Link to Ubuntu site won't cut it, it has to be hosted by a person/organisation who sells GPL'd software. That is because GPL can't know if reseller changed code of the software or not.


More about it here (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html)

So, if someone bought Ubuntu, asked for source and did not get it, he can sue.

[Techsnap]

The seller would probably provide it for nothing if someone really requested it.

[Marlonsm]

You all said that is legal, but I can not say if it is legal based from informations that OP provided.

[Info about the GPL]

More about it here (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html)

So, if someone bought Ubuntu, asked for source and did not get it, he can sue.

I'm pretty sure that someone who paid $25 for Ubuntu won't know that. Unless the person bought just to sue him, which is, IMO, a waste of time and money.

[staf0048]

You all said that is legal, but I can not say if it is legal based from informations that OP provided.

Here is the deal: One can sell GPL'd software for any price, but he has to be prepared to provide sources free of charge if customer (who have received binary from him) asks for it. He must offer "equivalent access" to sources, which means, if he sold binary, sources must be either included in package or offered on separate CD. If seller fails to provide sources by himself, he is in violation of GPL and can be legally prosecuted. And he cant say "download sources from internet" unless sources are on his site. Link to Ubuntu site won't cut it, it has to be hosted by a person/organisation who sells GPL'd software. That is because GPL can't know if reseller changed code of the software or not.


More about it here (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html)

So, if someone bought Ubuntu, asked for source and did not get it, he can sue.

Right, but this was not an accusation that these people were selling the software and not including the sources. It was frustration/outrage/anger over the fact that free software was being sold at all (from my understanding). We know not of the intent or understanding of the actual sellers w/ regard to the GPL. The OP saw a posting on craigslist and was upset over it. We are simply saying it is legal to sell free software.

[Chronon]

You all said that is legal, but I can not say if it is legal based from informations that OP provided.

Here is the deal: One can sell GPL'd software for any price, but he has to be prepared to provide sources free of charge if customer (who have received binary from him) asks for it. He must offer "equivalent access" to sources, which means, if he sold binary, sources must be either included in package or offered on separate CD. If seller fails to provide sources by himself, he is in violation of GPL and can be legally prosecuted. And he cant say "download sources from internet" unless sources are on his site. Link to Ubuntu site won't cut it, it has to be hosted by a person/organisation who sells GPL'd software. That is because GPL can't know if reseller changed code of the software or not.


More about it here (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html)

So, if someone bought Ubuntu, asked for source and did not get it, he can sue.

The GPL only governs conditions for distribution, independent of price. By my understanding, the same conditions are also true if you simply give away a LiveCD to somebody. They are within their rights to sue you for the source.

[sudoer541]

You all said that is legal, but I can not say if it is legal based from informations that OP provided.

Here is the deal: One can sell GPL'd software for any price, but he has to be prepared to provide sources free of charge if customer (who have received binary from him) asks for it. He must offer "equivalent access" to sources, which means, if he sold binary, sources must be either included in package or offered on separate CD. If seller fails to provide sources by himself, he is in violation of GPL and can be legally prosecuted. And he cant say "download sources from internet" unless sources are on his site. Link to Ubuntu site won't cut it, it has to be hosted by a person/organisation who sells GPL'd software. That is because GPL can't know if reseller changed code of the software or not.


More about it here (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0-faq.html)

So, if someone bought Ubuntu, asked for source and did not get it, he can sue.
thats why you sell ubuntu to people who know nothing about open source and see profits coming lol+

[Frak]

Judging by that screenshot, I think your theme needs to be flagged.
I was about to say that when I read it.

[mickie.kext]

The GPL only governs conditions for distribution, independent of price. By my understanding, the same conditions are also true if you simply give away a LiveCD to somebody. They are within their rights to sue you for the source.

Yes that is true, it is not related to price. But you can not relay sue somebody if he just give you live CD, that act is non-formal. It is not released to general public. You do not get a bill, so you do not get prof that *he* give you CD. You could sue website for not putting sources for download. Internet *is* general public.

But, staf0048 is right. Topic is not about that. I just had a need to mention this because I did resell GPL'd software few times, unmodified as well as modified. I always included sources :D.

[Frak]

The GPL website says to distribute sources that build to make that binary from the same place.

Therefore, yes, you could just link to the Ubuntu sources. Those are the sources to build that binary from the same place it was retrieved.

[staf0048]

The GPL website says to distribute sources that build to make that binary from the same place.

Therefore, yes, you could just link to the Ubuntu sources. Those are the sources to build that binary from the same place it was retrieved.

This is a little off topic, but how does one know?

If I were to buy a copy of Ubuntu from one of these people and I wanted the sources, how would I know, without a doubt, that the sources I was given do infact result in the exact same binary's as the ones I purchased? Is there a way to check for this? You've got my curisoty going now.

[Frak]

This is a little off topic, but how does one know?

If I were to buy a copy of Ubuntu from one of these people and I wanted the sources, how would I know, without a doubt, that the sources I was given do infact result in the exact same binary's as the ones I purchased? Is there a way to check for this? You've got my curisoty going now.
Compile the program under the same conditions. Same optimisations, same libraries, same compiler, same linker. If the two programs come out the same, they'll have the same MD5SUM.

[Techsnap]

Also judging by the description I'd say it's a disc from the ShipIt service, or bought in buik from the Ubuntu store since it says it's "from Canonical" unless they simply mean they downloaded it from there which again is the same thing.

[staf0048]

Compile the program under the same conditions. Same optimisations, same libraries, same compiler, same linker. If the two programs come out the same, they'll have the same MD5SUM.

Is all of this required dislosure or do you just have to guess what was actually used?

[Sublime Porte]

I can't believe this thread is still going.

The OP had no idea what he was talking about, and he was clued in during the first page of answers. End of story. There's absolutely nothing wrong with selling GPL software in fact it's highly encouraged. Anyone who doesn't understand this, go stick your head in the GPL agreement for a coupla hours and work it out.

Repeat: It's actually *good* to sell GPL software, since it's been created with the intent of being beneficial to people, and reaching as many people as possible. Anyone who'd seek to limit that, is going against the GPL and against the wishes of those who coded all the software included in something like Ubuntu.

[Chronon]

staf0048: It may depend on which version of the GPL you use. In some instances you are only required to provide source, not a complete build environment/toolchain.

[Chronon]

The GPL website says to distribute sources that build to make that binary from the same place.

Therefore, yes, you could just link to the Ubuntu sources. Those are the sources to build that binary from the same place it was retrieved.

I'm not sure which version of GPL you're talking about but the FAQ for the GPL v2 says this:

Can I put the binaries on my Internet server and put the source on a different Internet site?
The GPL says you must offer access to copy the source code “from the same place”; that is, next to the binaries. However, if you make arrangements with another site to keep the necessary source code available, and put a link or cross-reference to the source code next to the binaries, we think that qualifies as “from the same place”.

Note, however, that it is not enough to find some site that happens to have the appropriate source code today, and tell people to look there. Tomorrow that site may have deleted that source code, or simply replaced it with a newer version of the same program. Then you would no longer be complying with the GPL requirements. To make a reasonable effort to comply, you need to make a positive arrangement with the other site, and thus ensure that the source will be available there for as long as you keep the binaries available.
I guess for a one-off distribution of a single binary (or ISO), linking to Canonical's servers (or a mirror) might be sufficient, though.

[DougieFresh4U]

I was just shocked to see the Craigslist posting and that was why I made the thread actually.
I got 10 cd's from ship-it and GAVE 9 of them out to students at Alfred College.
But I see that most agree with selling Ubuntu cd's.

[plurworldinc]

it's totally ok and welcomed!!!

there is nothing wrong with making a profit if you can.

[Sublime Porte]

But I see that most agree with selling Ubuntu cd's.

It's irrelevant whether most agree or not. The people who wrote the software (most of them have nothing to do with Ubuntu or Canonical btw) want their software freely distributable or sellable, and so they release it under the GPL. What other people agree to means nothing.

[K. Alan Eister]

Actually, internet explorer, dreamweaver, flash, and fireworks also work in Crossover. Though, I've had problems with IE in Crossover visually.

[Gallahhad]

Can you get those programs to work with Ubuntu?
Using Wine I can vouch personally for:
Dreamweaver and Photoshop

Internet Explorer works, but only in a "kind of" sort of way; good for web dev, not good for general purpose.

[squilookle]

Just tried the link:


This listing (170310633092) has been removed, or this item is not available.





Please check that you've entered the correct item number
Listings that have ended 90 or more days ago will not be available for viewing.



Edit: Then realised the thread has been bought back from March 2009! That'll be why then...

[Techsnap]

Hmm you should have looked at the date of the original post.

[zaksworld]

Yah this was posted in 2009.

[humphreybc]

Huh? I've had Dreamweaver 9, Flash 9, Fireworks, Photoshop CS2 and IE6 installed on Ubuntu before.

I'm pretty sure Wine-Doors makes it easy to install the whole she-bang.

But yeah, people always try to sell Ubuntu CDs :)

[t0p]

But yeah, people always try to sell Ubuntu CDs :)

Which is a good thing, if you want Ubuntu to become a "serious" alternative to Windows and Mac on the desktop (or whatever it is you want Ubuntu to become today).

And even if you don't want Ubuntu to be monetized, there's still nothing wrong in selling the disks. The GPL specifically allows for software to be (re-)sold. I'd do it myself if I thought I could make money from it. But I don't, so I don't.

[jwbrase]

In fact, the GPL forbids anyone distributing software licensed under it from telling anybody who wishes to redistribute it that they can't sell it.

[Marvin666]

On this computer I've only installed one program under wine, and that had no linux native alternative. It was a program for packing cab archives, and it worked flawlessly. It decompressed to the original files, with no corruption.

[tom.swartz07]

I swear I remember reading somewhere that it was against Ubuntu's license agreement to distribute copies of the Live CD for money, yet: http://www.amazon.com/Ubuntu-10-04-Intel-Install-Lucid/dp/B003LBLSVA/ref=sr_1_36?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1275575120&sr=8-36

and http://www.amazon.com/Ubuntu-10-04-Intel-Install-Lucid/dp/B003KDVKNA/ref=pd_bxgy_sw_text_b

are being sold for nearly $15-20 a pop!

What's going on here, and is there something that we should do?

[LowSky]

Amazon has done it for years, even Canoniclal sells CD's.

[TheNerdAL]

Yeah, if you don't want to buy it, you can buy blank CD's and burn the Image File for free.

[ssj6akshat]

Chill.It's not illegal to distribute(or sell)Ubuntu CDs

[LowSky]

http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/licensing


While Ubuntu will not charge licence fees for this distribution, you might want to charge to print Ubuntu CDs, or create your own customised versions of Ubuntu which you sell, and should have the freedom to do so.

[Shazzam6999]

I'm pretty sure the price attached to Canonical's cd keys is distribution related, there's plenty of sellers on Amazon for 0.99$ so it looks like that seller is just taking advantage of the system. Personally, I wouldn't mind supporting Canonical anyways by getting cds through them (them being Canonical not the Amazon seller).

[tom.swartz07]

I'm pretty sure the price attached to Canonical's cd keys is distribution related, there's plenty of sellers on Amazon for 0.99$ so it looks like that seller is just taking advantage of the system. Personally, I wouldn't mind supporting Canonical anyways by getting cds through them (them being Canonical not the Amazon seller).

Thats what Im saying, theyre pretty obviously taking advantage of the system. Im not sure if theres anything that we really can do, but I think its kind of low for someone to pull something like this. haha

[kaldor]

I saw advertised in a local craigslist-type site someone offering computer maintenance and software.

"Ubuntu CDs for 49.99, includes installation fee and software licenses"

That was over a year now.

[sgosnell]

There is no crime in charging for your time. Installation takes some time, especially configuring the system to the user's preferences. $50 isn't too much for a couple of hours or more, plus driving to the buyer's location to do the install. Anyone can get the OS for free, but learning how to install it isn't free; it costs either money or time, or both. You can spend the time, or spend the money, your choice.

[cascade9]

Agreed, $50 (I assume US) isnt that bad for installation. Its not good, but I know of people who charge more than that to install windows.



and http://www.amazon.com/Ubuntu-10-04-Intel-Install-Lucid/dp/B003KDVKNA/ref=pd_bxgy_sw_text_b


LMAO!

"Ubuntu 10.04 64 bit Intel i386"?

Its i386, or AMD64 (x86-64 if your prefer), not both at the same time....

[kaldor]

There is no crime in charging for your time. Installation takes some time, especially configuring the system to the user's preferences. $50 isn't too much for a couple of hours or more, plus driving to the buyer's location to do the install. Anyone can get the OS for free, but learning how to install it isn't free; it costs either money or time, or both. You can spend the time, or spend the money, your choice.

In my example however, the guy was trying to distribute "licenses" for Ubuntu, included in the price.

Edit: From www.gnu.org..


Does the GPL allow me to charge a fee for downloading the program from my site?

Yes. You can charge any fee you wish for distributing a copy of the program. If you distribute binaries by download, you must provide “equivalent access” to download the source—therefore, the fee to download source may not be greater than the fee to download the binary.

[WinterRain]

Agreed, $50 (I assume US) isnt that bad for installation. Its not good, but I know of people who charge more than that to install windows.



LMAO!

"Ubuntu 10.04 64 bit Intel i386"?

Its i386, or AMD64 (x86-64 if your prefer), not both at the same time....

I charge $100 to install windows, and $50 for linux.

[koenn]

In my example however, the guy was trying to distribute "licenses" for Ubuntu, included in the price.

Edit: From www.gnu.org..

It's still correct, though, isn't it :
he's selling CD's with software - including a license that informs you about your rights for using that software.
Actually, for most open source software, including the license when you (re-)distrubute is an obligation.

[aysiu]

If you're wondering why this is in Recurring Discussions:
Is selling Ubuntu legal? (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1424237)
Ubuntu is Free. Isnt it? (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1307092)
Unauthorized resale of Ubuntu... what to do, where to report? (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1212635)
OK to sell a version of Linux? (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1204678)
Selling Burnt Ubuntu CD's on ebay. (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1131601)
Selling Ubuntu on Ebay!! (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=858608)
Is it legal/okay to sell Ubuntu/Linux CDs you got for free? (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=158892)

[sgosnell]

Does the GPL allow me to charge a fee for downloading the program from my site?

Yes. You can charge any fee you wish for distributing a copy of the program. If you distribute binaries by download, you must provide “equivalent access” to download the source—therefore, the fee to download source may not be greater than the fee to download the binary.
What does that have to do with this discussion? That just says the fee to download the source can't be greater than the fee for the binary. As for including the license, that's required by the license. You have to include the license with the OS.

[Legendary_Bibo]

I think I just found a new source of income...Off to Staples for blank CD's!

[murderslastcrow]

Ubuntu's only 'license agreement,' so far as I remember from the software included by default, is several versions of the GPL and perhaps a BSD-style license here and there.

You can do whatever you want with it. You could modify it to look like OS X and sell the CD for 200 bucks if you wanted to, you shameless bastard. *cough* Um.... hypothetically.

[Legendary_Bibo]

Ubuntu's only 'license agreement,' so far as I remember from the software included by default, is several versions of the GPL and perhaps a BSD-style license here and there.

You can do whatever you want with it. You could modify it to look like OS X and sell the CD for 200 bucks if you wanted to, you shameless bastard. *cough* Um.... hypothetically.

Hmmmm...and how would one go about repackaging it? :D

[sgosnell]

I wish I knew enough people (or indeed, any at all) willing to pay for installation of Ubuntu. I've done several installs for free, but never even thought about charging for it. I doubt they would have been willing to pay in the first place.

[murderslastcrow]

Just use one of those LiveCD-making programs. Change the names in the OS if you think Canonical wouldn't approve of the use of the Ubuntu trademark, since I think that's the only thing in the distro they have any rights over.

Let's just make a total Mac ripoff, but include a ton of features OS X doesn't have, sell it on nice hardware, and outdo Apple. All they did with OS X was assemble pieces of open source software into Darwin and make Aqua/Cocoa, along with a brand new interface.

Seriously, if we had Adobe CS, I doubt anyone would really be that concerned with iTunes availability (DRM-dumpster). What else do people use OS X for that you can't use in Ubuntu? Psh, as an OS X alternative Ubuntu's a keeper.

[murderslastcrow]

A few of my friends and family insisted on paying me for it. One or two I couldn't avoid accepting, they were so persuasive. ^,~

[Shining Arcanine]

Yeah, if you don't want to buy it, you can buy blank CD's and burn the Image File for free.

How is buying blank CDs free?

[Legendary_Bibo]

Just use one of those LiveCD-making programs. Change the names in the OS if you think Canonical wouldn't approve of the use of the Ubuntu trademark, since I think that's the only thing in the distro they have any rights over.

Let's just make a total Mac ripoff, but include a ton of features OS X doesn't have, sell it on nice hardware, and outdo Apple. All they did with OS X was assemble pieces of open source software into Darwin and make Aqua/Cocoa, along with a brand new interface.

Seriously, if we had Adobe CS, I doubt anyone would really be that concerned with iTunes availability (DRM-dumpster). What else do people use OS X for that you can't use in Ubuntu? Psh, as an OS X alternative Ubuntu's a keeper.

Cool, I'll package my fake version of Windows Xubuntu and sell them for $50 which includes a year of professional help. By professional help, I'm going to do the same thing that Windows's tech help does and just tell people to just restart the computer until whatever they want to happen happens.

[murderslastcrow]

And if you were on the scene before Windows 95, they would worship you for it.

[jerenept]

Ubuntu's only 'license agreement,' so far as I remember from the software included by default, is several versions of the GPL and perhaps a BSD-style license here and there.

You can do whatever you want with it. You could modify it to look like OS X and sell the CD for 200 bucks if you wanted to, you shameless bastard. *cough* Um.... hypothetically.

Ahem... and force them to use it on ONLY the computers YOU assembled
Cough apple:P

[murderslastcrow]

Dude, lay off the fruit. It's getting all over me.

Ah yes, mixed license agreements of dewm. Apple really hit the sweet spot for mixing open source and 'me me me' together. It shows in the names of the majority of their products.

[Legendary_Bibo]

All right guys I've finished making my totally legit looking Windows Xubuntu. This is the bootup screen/CD cover. The CD cover doesn't include the clippy warning.

[tom.swartz07]

All right guys I've finished making my totally legit looking Windows Xubuntu. This is the bootup screen/CD cover. The CD cover doesn't include the clippy warning.

Looks awesome compared to some of the other CD cases that theyre selling on Amazon! haha

[GaryLittlemore]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LATEST-Ubuntu-11-10-Linux-CD-Replacement-Laptop-Desktop-PC-Operating-System-/160665297189?pt=UK_Computing_Software_Software_SR&hash=item256865e125#ht_2157wt_1041

[lzfy]

What's wrong with it? You can sell Ubuntu.

[lykwydchykyn]

They even say in the description:



Ubuntu 11.10 is also available free to download from the internet. We are selling this CD to make it easy for people who don't know how to burn an iso image, or have no knowledge of MD5 checksums, or have strict download limits imposed or have a slow internet connections. Also, if you order the CD from us you'll receive some basic Ubuntu support (we run Ubuntu on our own PCs).


Granted, for the money they ought to at least print up labels and be specific about the terms of the support. I doubt they'll do well with the current approach.

[GaryLittlemore]

Are you sure?

[GaryLittlemore]

I think you could be right, I never knew that...

"While Ubuntu will not charge licence fees for this distribution, you might want to charge to print Ubuntu CDs, or create your own customised versions of Ubuntu which you sell, and should have the freedom to do so."

I still think it's wrong to make money from something that is free and people put a lot of time and effort into.

[bluexrider]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LATEST-Ubuntu-11-10-Linux-CD-Replacement-Laptop-Desktop-PC-Operating-System-/160665297189?pt=UK_Computing_Software_Software_SR&hash=item256865e125#ht_2157wt_1041

whats the problem? cause you didn't think of it?

Linux CD org does it all the time http://www.linuxcd.org/view_distro.php?id_distro=196&ref=distrowatch

I think it's great he should be commended. It gets the distro out in the public. £2.95 Buy it now beats WINDOWS 7 anyday!

get over it and move on

[haqking]

they are not charging for the product they are charging for the disc and the burning.

Alot of places charge for that, some people dont have the badnwidth or have data limits preventing the download of .iso.

To be honest seems like a fair price, and at end of day they have been honest about it, and providing a service to some, after all only those that need it will buy it (i imagine)

and it all legit

infact they are cheaper than canonical sell them for if you only want the one. http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=915

if i was the ebayer though i would buy my packs fo 10 or 20 and then sell them...LOL save burning them ;-)

[GaryLittlemore]

Read my previous post!


whats the problem? cause you didn't think of it?

Linux CD org does it all the time http://www.linuxcd.org/view_distro.php?id_distro=196&ref=distrowatch

I think it's great he should be commended. It gets the distro out in the public. £2.95 Buy it now beats WINDOWS 7 anyday!

get over it and move on

[lykwydchykyn]

I still think it's wrong to make money from something that is free and people put a lot of time and effort into.

The guy's charging a small fee for the act of downloading and burning an ISO to a CD, along with a vague offer of support. If it's a bad deal, nobody will buy it. If those things are worth 4.95 to somebody, they'll buy it.

The entire open source industry runs on selling services -- services related to free products created by others -- and that's exactly what this fellow's doing.

[sdowney717]

IF their tech support is good, that is worth the purchase for those who buy from them. Tech support can although, be a headache, so perhaps you buying $5 worth of support and you get a free disk.

[IWantFroyo]

As previous users said, the cost is mainly for the disk, shipping, and burning.
The reason I say shipping is because those look like the ones Canonical sells.

This guy is actually doing a good thing by buying the sets from Canonical and selling them individually. I should've thought of that. Could make a few spare dollars... Local vendors are always good.

Or I could just burn blank CDs and sell them for dirt cheap. Not sure where I'd go to sell them, however.

Edit: Threads were merged. Now my response doesn't make as much sense. :(

[CharlesA]

Since the threads have been merged and the question has been answered, this thread is closed.