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View Full Version : LibreOffice: OpenOffice.org Liberated !



newbie2
September 28th, 2010, 09:55 AM
DocumentFoundation Formed : http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=34510
8-)

Luffield
September 28th, 2010, 10:50 AM
Brilliant news! Can't wait to get rid of that Oracle logo I see every time I launch OO.o.
Bring it on!

andymorton
September 28th, 2010, 10:51 AM
Thanks for posting this. I'm downloading the beta :)

Luffield
September 28th, 2010, 11:00 AM
Andy, I decided not to try the beta yet because I think the differences between this version and OO.o 3.2 will be negligible. If you notice anything worth the bandwidth, I'll be happy if you report here. Thanks!

andymorton
September 28th, 2010, 11:06 AM
Andy, I decided not to try the beta yet because I think the differences between this version and OO.o 3.2 will be negligible. If you notice anything worth the bandwidth, I'll be happy if you report here. Thanks!

Will do. I'm just trying to work out how to install it. Am I right in thinking that .rpm files won't run on Ubuntu?

andy

inobe
September 28th, 2010, 11:07 AM
thanks :)

inobe
September 28th, 2010, 11:08 AM
Will do. I'm just trying to work out how to install it. Am I right in thinking that .rpm files won't run on Ubuntu?

andy

you would want to use a .deb :P

andymorton
September 28th, 2010, 11:12 AM
you would want to use a .deb :P

No .debs to be found I'm afraid. :( If only I was using Fedora :P

Luffield
September 28th, 2010, 11:14 AM
Am I right in thinking that .rpm files won't run on Ubuntu?
That's right, .rpm package files are used in other distros (e.g. Red Hat and Suse).
You can install .rpm packages in Ubuntu using a program called "alien", but IIRC the results are sometimes not very stable.
I would advise you to wait until a native Ubuntu package is available.

inobe
September 28th, 2010, 11:37 AM
No .debs to be found I'm afraid. :( If only I was using Fedora :P

it won't be long till it's released.

Sslaxx
September 28th, 2010, 11:57 AM
Oracle are not going to hand over the marks I bet. I'd not be surprised if they try to stop this via legal action, actually. Personally, I hope OO.o all but dies and LibreOffice takes its place, ala XFree and X.org.

newbie2
September 28th, 2010, 12:36 PM
I would advise you to wait until a native Ubuntu package is available.

Mark Shuttleworth, founder and major shareholder of Canonical, the makers of Ubuntu, has declared: "Office productivity software is a critical component of the free software desktop, and the Ubuntu Project will be pleased to ship LibreOffice from The Document Foundation in future releases of Ubuntu. The Document Foundation's stewardship of LibreOffice provides Ubuntu developers an effective forum for collaboration around the code that makes Ubuntu an effective solution for the desktop in office environments".
http://www.documentfoundation.org/supporters/
;)

Luffield
September 28th, 2010, 12:50 PM
This is excellent news, but "future releases" must mean 11.04 or possibly even 11.10. I really hope to see LO packaged for 10.04 LTS or 10.10 in the coming few weeks.

Luffield
September 28th, 2010, 12:56 PM
I'd not be surprised if they try to stop this via legal action, actually.
I really don't think they can stop this. Well, being Oracle, they may well try to anyway :?

Sslaxx
September 28th, 2010, 01:02 PM
I really don't think they can stop this. Well, being Oracle, they may well try to anyway :?
My (quite possibly faulty) understanding of this is that, at the moment, LibreOffice's primary Achilles Heel would be the dependency upon Java for the database backend. Any code assigned to Oracle might be an issue as well (although possibly less of one, due to the licensing).

The Cog
September 28th, 2010, 01:15 PM
Torrent files available here http://tracker.documentfoundation.org:6969/ include .deb versions. But only en_US downloads are available so far. Hopefully all the other countries around the world will see their languages supported soon.

Please leave your torrent seeding for a while after your download finishes.

benjamimgois
September 28th, 2010, 01:17 PM
that's very nice news !! For years openoffice needs some love on the code and UI and oracle was making everyone afraid of it's intentions. Long life to libre office !

masdjo
September 28th, 2010, 01:19 PM
I have installed LibreOffice rpm based with alien :


sudo alien -i *.rpmignore the error message that appears
after completion, then on the top panel, will appear systray quickstarter, of these can be directly running
I did not install the desktop integration so as to run on the terminal are: (eg, writer)


/opt/libreoffice3/program/swriter

Paperjam
September 28th, 2010, 02:02 PM
LibreOffice .deb files for Ubuntu are available on http://download.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/testing/ (official server but not linked from download page)

beew
September 28th, 2010, 02:25 PM
This is very good news! What's next? Virtualbox becomes OutOfBox?

beastrace91
September 28th, 2010, 02:28 PM
DocumentFoundation Formed : http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=34510
8-)

Thats exactly what we need. More application splintering. Not to mention if I am suggesting office software it is still going to be OpenOffice because no one is going to remember "libre" without me writing it down for them.

~Jeff

Tibuda
September 28th, 2010, 02:31 PM
So, perhasp they accept the Novell patches merge with Go-OO?

Jay Car
September 28th, 2010, 02:52 PM
This is such good news. Many years ago, when I first heard of free software, it was hard to understand how such a concept could possibly work in this rather greedy world of ours. But a friend explained that the development of free/open software was like water. It tends to flow around obstructions.

It's fascinating to see it happening.


So, perhasp they accept the Novell patches merge with Go-OO?

From what I understand, there will be no go-oo patches (at least, not at first).

Half-Left
September 28th, 2010, 03:03 PM
From what I understand, there will be no go-oo patches (at least, not at first).

Good news.


We are delighted to announce that the enhancements produced by the Go-OOo team will be merged into LibreOffice, effective immediately. We hope that others will follow suit.

Jay Car
September 28th, 2010, 03:10 PM
Good news.

We are delighted to announce that the enhancements produced by the Go-OOo team will be merged into LibreOffice, effective immediately. We hope that others will follow suit.

That's great. I'm very glad to hear it.

kryg3r
September 28th, 2010, 03:11 PM
mmm, i probably need to stop moaning about it, download it, use it, get use to it.

Tibuda
September 28th, 2010, 03:14 PM
Good news.

That's really good. They are just kind of jsut making the Go-OO fork "official".

repunante
September 28th, 2010, 03:25 PM
Great great news, hopefully Oracle will not be able to stop it.

Sand & Mercury
September 28th, 2010, 03:39 PM
Good news, hopefully someone talented will work toward making the UI not suck.

Frogs Hair
September 28th, 2010, 03:43 PM
I'm hoping Oracle won't be be able secure the rights to a project with thousands of contributors , without details about Sun's agreements with Oracle it's hard to say if the move can be blocked or not . This is good news anyway.

andymorton
September 28th, 2010, 03:45 PM
Torrent files available here http://tracker.documentfoundation.org:6969/ include .deb versions. But only en_US downloads are available so far. Hopefully all the other countries around the world will see their languages supported soon.

Please leave your torrent seeding for a while after your download finishes.

Thanks for posting the link. I'm downloading it now. (And it can seed to its heart's content)

andy

bubblehead74
September 28th, 2010, 03:54 PM
My (quite possibly faulty) understanding of this is that, at the moment, LibreOffice's primary Achilles Heel would be the dependency upon Java for the database backend.

They could always switch to SQLite, which is in public domain and does not require Java.

forrestcupp
September 28th, 2010, 04:27 PM
Good news.That is good news that they are including Go-oo patches. When I first read the article, I didn't think they would care to put much effort into Microsoft compatibility.


They could always switch to SQLite, which is in public domain and does not require Java.
Java is more for the addons than it is for a database backend. SQLite wouldn't do any good for addons. They'd have to switch to Python or something, then all of the thousands of addons would have to be completely rewritten.

andrewabc
September 28th, 2010, 04:31 PM
I really hope they get rid of java dependency.

Vanadaar
September 28th, 2010, 04:52 PM
I'm hoping Oracle won't be be able secure the rights to a project with thousands of contributors , without details about Sun's agreements with Oracle it's hard to say if the move can be blocked or not . This is good news anyway.

I'm not sure they can legally block it. Correct me if I am wrong, but isnt openoffice licensed under LGPL?

Ctrl-Alt-F1
September 28th, 2010, 04:57 PM
I don't like the name. I hope it doesn't stick.

ukripper
September 28th, 2010, 05:00 PM
Next thing should be to rewrite of Libreoffice in python or C++ rather than in java to say goodbye to Oracle forever.

Arathorn
September 28th, 2010, 05:07 PM
ukripper: I believe the Java dependency is only for some portions (like addons), not the entirety of the suite (the rest is C++).
On-topic: Isn't this move a little premature? Project rarely benefit from forks and as far as I know Oracle hasn't stated it's intent with the suite yet. I don't think they'll do a lot with it (they seem to focus on cloud software), but if the project wants to sever its ties with Oracle, it's better to do so on more or less friendly terms (I doubt Oracle wants to cooperate on the name now). I do hope they create a really new name, Openoffice.org wasn't a strong brand and LibreOffice certainly isn't going to make it marketing-wise.

ukripper
September 28th, 2010, 05:25 PM
ukripper: I believe the Java dependency is only for some portions (like addons), not the entirety of the suite (the rest is C++).

Well in that case should be easy to jump ships with different language I suppose.

maddbaron
September 28th, 2010, 06:12 PM
how to install the debs? gdebi says dependencies aren't satisfied....think I may wait until this hits the repos...

Dustin2128
September 28th, 2010, 06:56 PM
I don't like the name. I hope it doesn't stick.
/. post said it's temporary, until either a. oracle gives them the oo.o trademark (which they own) or b. they find a better one because oracle wasn't playing nice. GNU office might be nice, if the FSF adopted it as their official office program or something, as GNU has already made a bit of impact in the general public's awareness.

ukripper: I believe the Java dependency is only for some portions (like addons), not the entirety of the suite (the rest is C++).
On-topic: Isn't this move a little premature? Project rarely benefit from forks and as far as I know Oracle hasn't stated it's intent with the suite yet. I don't think they'll do a lot with it (they seem to focus on cloud software), but if the project wants to sever its ties with Oracle, it's better to do so on more or less friendly terms (I doubt Oracle wants to cooperate on the name now). I do hope they create a really new name, Openoffice.org wasn't a strong brand and LibreOffice certainly isn't going to make it marketing-wise.
IMO too early is better than too late, oracle isn't exactly being nice to sun's other FLOSS projects.
*prepares for dozens of oracle fans to argue*

Half-Left
September 28th, 2010, 07:11 PM
It's a good preemptive move I think to cover off anything Oracle do that's bad towards OpenOffice.

Oracle could close off OpenOffice and charge for it like they did with OpenSolaris.

Starks
September 28th, 2010, 07:15 PM
I don't mind tinkering, but I'll wait for a PPA.

forrestcupp
September 28th, 2010, 07:16 PM
On-topic: Isn't this move a little premature? Project rarely benefit from forks and as far as I know Oracle hasn't stated it's intent with the suite yet. I don't think they'll do a lot with it (they seem to focus on cloud software), but if the project wants to sever its ties with Oracle, it's better to do so on more or less friendly termsThey're not trying to sever ties with Oracle, and they are trying to do it in friendly terms.
Oracle, who acquired OpenOffice.org assets as a result of its acquisition of Sun Microsystems, has been invited to become a member of the new Foundation, and donate the brand the community has grown during the past ten years.


GNU office might be nice, if the FSF adopted it as their official office program or something, as GNU has already made a bit of impact in the general public's awareness.That would be the death of OpenOffice.org. The FSF would strip the project of all MS compatibility just out of spite and "morals", and that would completely destroy OOo's relevance.

Dragonbite
September 28th, 2010, 07:21 PM
This, I think, is good news. Not only will it build it open from the get-go, but it also tells Oracle that mess around with open source enough, you will lose control of it.

The only down side is, OpenOffice.org was developed in Java (wasn't it?), so as long as it is built on Java it is never quire free from Oracle.

As long as ooo2gd (http://code.google.com/p/ooo2gd/) is ported over, I'll be a happy camper!

percyhahn
September 28th, 2010, 07:22 PM
im pretty new to opensource, so not quite up on this, but if openoffice was/is free, why is it such a good thing that libreoffice has surfaced, to replace openoffice? if its by the people who made openoffice, why not just continue with openoffice?
iv downloaded the beta though :p

Starks
September 28th, 2010, 07:26 PM
BTW, the go-oo fork (the OpenOffice that Ubuntu actually uses) and its patches are essentially what LibreOffice is.

forrestcupp
September 28th, 2010, 07:27 PM
im pretty new to opensource, so not quite up on this, but if openoffice was/is free, why is it such a good thing that libreoffice has surfaced, to replace openoffice? if its by the people who made openoffice, why not just continue with openoffice?
iv downloaded the beta though :p

It's because Sun Microsystems, who started OpenOffice, was bought out by Oracle, and Oracle appears to be showing that they aren't interested in their open source stuff.

Half-Left
September 28th, 2010, 07:27 PM
im pretty new to opensource, so not quite up on this, but if openoffice was/is free, why is it such a good thing that libreoffice has surfaced, to replace openoffice? if its by the people who made openoffice, why not just continue with openoffice?
iv downloaded the beta though :p

Sun used to own it and Oracle brought Sun, so they can do what they like with OpenOffice now and judging by Oracles business model, it doesn't look favourable.

Saying that, Oracle initially developed BTRFS, which is GPL and in the Linux Kernel.

qamelian
September 28th, 2010, 07:28 PM
This, I think, is good news. Not only will it build it open from the get-go, but it also tells Oracle that mess around with open source enough, you will lose control of it.

The only down side is, OpenOffice.org was developed in Java (wasn't it?), so as long as it is built on Java it is never quire free from Oracle.

As long as ooo2gd (http://code.google.com/p/ooo2gd/) is ported over, I'll be a happy camper!
No, Openoffice was not developed in java. Only certain components are dependant on java, and they don't appear to be critical for most users. Personally, I've told OOo not to use a Java VM in the settings and I haven't encountered any limitiations yet. This also makes OOo startup noticeably faster.

percyhahn
September 28th, 2010, 07:31 PM
It's because Sun Microsystems, who started OpenOffice, was bought out by Oracle, and Oracle appears to be showing that they aren't interested in their open source stuff.

i see cheers :)

FrancoNero
September 28th, 2010, 07:39 PM
still, open office is a far better name...

Dustin2128
September 28th, 2010, 07:39 PM
That would be the death of OpenOffice.org. The FSF would strip the project of all MS compatibility just out of spite and "morals", and that would completely destroy OOo's relevance.
Yeah, you're probably right. Gnewsense is a perfect example, won't run well enough for me on any modern hardware I've got.

Dragonbite
September 28th, 2010, 07:42 PM
This is excellent news, but "future releases" must mean 11.04 or possibly even 11.10. I really hope to see LO packaged for 10.04 LTS or 10.10 in the coming few weeks.

They will probably include it in some 11.x release so that it can be "released early, released often" and with bugs worked out in time for 12.04, the next Ubuntu LTS release.


I really hope they get rid of java dependency.

They could always replace it with Mono! ;) *ducks*

KiwiNZ
September 28th, 2010, 07:46 PM
A few thoughts

1. the name is horrible

2. Oracle has been invited to join and the project needs funding from companies like Oracle or will go the way of the Dodo

3. It is still the same version so no point in downloading now

4. Oracle contributes well to Open source and the FSF a point to remember.

bash
September 28th, 2010, 07:55 PM
2. Oracle has been invited to join and the project needs funding from companies like Oracle or will go the way of the Dodo

4. Oracle contributes well to Open source and the FSF a point to remember.

Waaahhhhh ... facts. Go away!


They could always replace it with Mono! ;) *ducks*

The one big area (besides some stuff for databases) where Java is used in OOo is for the plugins. Funnily enough Novell actually developed their own OOo plugin backend a couple of years back using Mono as the language of choice.

That ought to make quite a few people happy. Just managed to escape the clutches of evil empire Oracle to find themselves in the lap of "Microsofts" Mono ;)

Dustin2128
September 28th, 2010, 08:07 PM
A few thoughts

1. the name is horrible

2. Oracle has been invited to join and the project needs funding from companies like Oracle or will go the way of the Dodo

3. It is still the same version so no point in downloading now

4. Oracle contributes well to Open source and the FSF a point to remember.
I agree with points 1 and 2, but why wouldn't you want a liberated open office? ;)

As for 4, oracle does contribute to FLOSS, but with oracle's canceling of opensolaris and lawsuit against google, this is just being prudent. I could have seen them dropping official OO.o support, and swapping to a freemium version of star office.

I don't think it should be tied to a single company the way it was before, though it probably needs some degree of corporate sponsorship.

AllRadioisDead
September 28th, 2010, 08:12 PM
I agree with points 1 and 2, but why wouldn't you want a liberated open office? ;)

As for 4, oracle does contribute to FLOSS, but with oracle's canceling of opensolaris and lawsuit against google, this is just being prudent. I could have seen them dropping official OO.o support, and swapping to a freemium version of star office.

I don't think it should be tied to a single company the way it was before, though it probably needs some degree of corporate sponsorship.

Who cares about the name, it's really up to Oracle if they want to pass the branding on to the Document Foundation. Google and Novell are on board.

earthpigg
September 28th, 2010, 08:13 PM
Personally, I've told OOo not to use a Java VM in the settings and I haven't encountered any limitiations yet. This also makes OOo startup noticeably faster.

wow! it does indeed load a lot faster, and this is on an i7. im certainly going to uncheck this box on my netbook install now, too.

for others that want to give this a try & watch OO.o load a zillion times faster:

tools -> options -> java -> uncheck it

Dustin2128
September 28th, 2010, 08:15 PM
Who cares about the name, it's really up to Oracle if they want to pass the branding on to the Document Foundation. Google and Novell are on board.
I don't personally care that libre office is a rather bad name, it's just that I highly doubt most users feel the same way about the word libre as they do about open. It's marketing, mostly. And I do hope that oracle releases the name, they might regain a bit of FLOSS community goodwill.

MasterNetra
September 28th, 2010, 08:20 PM
/. post said it's temporary, until either a. oracle gives them the oo.o trademark (which they own) or b. they find a better one because oracle wasn't playing nice. GNU office might be nice, if the FSF adopted it as their official office program or something, as GNU has already made a bit of impact in the general public's awareness.
....


With Java as a dependency I doubt GNU will adopt it as default. However should they switch to a language in the public domain for the addons then perhaps.

But as it was mentioned earlier the tons of addons would need to be rewritten.

Dustin2128
September 28th, 2010, 08:24 PM
With Java as a dependency I doubt GNU will adopt it as default. However should they switch to a language in the public domain for the addons then perhaps.

But as it was mentioned earlier the tons of addons would need to be rewritten.
like forrestcupp pointed out, the FSF would strip out all proprietary software interoperability on the basis of 'morals'. But I'd be surprised if they didn't release a version crippled in said manner.

KiwiNZ
September 28th, 2010, 08:29 PM
I agree with points 1 and 2, but why wouldn't you want a liberated open office? ;)

As for 4, oracle does contribute to FLOSS, but with oracle's canceling of opensolaris and lawsuit against google, this is just being prudent. I could have seen them dropping official OO.o support, and swapping to a freemium version of star office.

I don't think it should be tied to a single company the way it was before, though it probably needs some degree of corporate sponsorship.

Sun had a "pay for" version the whole time it was supporting Open Office. And it makes sense. Have a pay for version then funding does not need to be pulled from other budgets to sponsor the project thus keeping the Stock holders and Bean Counters happy.

Fedora is tied to Redhat
Ubuntu is tied to Canonical
Open Office was tied to Sun for what 10 years.

The dropping of Open Solaris was on the cards well before the Oracle buy out, Sun had mooted that idea its self.

As for Oracle suing Google that is a red herring and Googles Halo is fake anyway ;)

MasterNetra
September 28th, 2010, 08:32 PM
like forrestcupp pointed out, the FSF would strip out all proprietary software interoperability on the basis of 'morals'. But I'd be surprised if they didn't release a version crippled in said manner.

A foolish thing to do be sure, many businesses and people also have to deal with MS Office formats so you can be sure there would be very few using the GNU version. And on a side note what GNu doesn't seem to get is that FOSS is not ideal for all software, people need to eat and pay bills ya know. If our societies had some alternative system that didn't use currency then sure FOSS everything, but clearly that is not the case.

Dustin2128
September 28th, 2010, 08:41 PM
A foolish thing to do be sure, many businesses and people also have to deal with MS Office formats so you can be sure there would be very few using the GNU version. And on a side note what GNu doesn't seem to get is that FOSS is not ideal for all software, people need to eat and pay bills ya know. If our societies had some alternative system that didn't use currency then sure FOSS everything, but clearly that is not the case.
The free software movement is basically the open source movement on steroids. They try to strip proprietary software out of everything, whether it breaks it or not, just look at gnewsense. They refuse to coexist and will not stop until the concept of propritary software is dead and gone. In a way, I admire them, in another, I look down upon them.


Sun had a "pay for" version the whole time it was supporting Open Office. And it makes sense. Have a pay for version then funding does not need to be pulled from other budgets to sponsor the project thus keeping the Stock holders and Bean Counters happy.
I'm aware of that, and I don't object to it. I'm just saying that it was a bit more probable that oracle would've canceled than sun, so that the star office money could be going somewhere else (if you know what I mean). Star office would then have a free version instead, where you had to pay for more features (cheaper than MSO to maintain relevance).

KiwiNZ
September 28th, 2010, 08:52 PM
The free software movement is basically the open source movement on steroids. They try to strip proprietary software out of everything, whether it breaks it or not, just look at gnewsense. They refuse to coexist and will not stop until the concept of propritary software is dead and gone. In a way, I admire them, in another, I look down upon them.


I'm aware of that, and I don't object to it. I'm just saying that it was a bit more probable that oracle would've canceled than sun, so that the star office money could be going somewhere else (if you know what I mean). Star office would then have a free version instead, where you had to pay for more features (cheaper than MSO to maintain relevance).

Suns "pay for" version gave you some additional features.

There was no indication from Oracle that they were going to stop,alter or affect Open Office in the short , medium or long term. There had of course been a lot of Geek Blog fests and GNU Fests from the bearded one and that anti mono site that I refuse to mention as I will need to reach for a barf bag , dammit I need to now , grrrrrrr.

Dragonbite
September 28th, 2010, 08:53 PM
Waaahhhhh ... facts. Go away!

The one big area (besides some stuff for databases) where Java is used in OOo is for the plugins. Funnily enough Novell actually developed their own OOo plugin backend a couple of years back using Mono as the language of choice.

That ought to make quite a few people happy. Just managed to escape the clutches of evil empire Oracle to find themselves in the lap of "Microsofts" Mono ;)

I just want the VBA to work, and that isn't the same as Mono/.NET. VBA is closer to Gambas than Mono.

jonathonblake
September 28th, 2010, 10:00 PM
believe the Java dependency is only for some portions (like addons), not the entirety of the suite (the rest is C++).

The most important thing that java is needed for, is accessibility integration. It is going to be very non-trivial to replace that requirement.


Isn't this move a little premature?

OOo should have had an independent foundation at least five years ago. Ten years ago would have been far better.


I know Oracle hasn't stated it's intent with the suite yet.

Oracle's message about the future of OOo has been deafening by its silence. As such, the only rational thing to do, is take OOo from Oracle, before Oracle literally destroys everything related to OOo.


LibreOffice certainly isn't going to make it marketing-wise.

LibreOffice might not be great branding, but it is better than OOo:
* no confusing the product with a website;
* not stuck in turn of the century naming fads;
* Better represents the point of the program;

jonathon

jonathonblake
September 28th, 2010, 10:21 PM
but if openoffice was/is free, why is it such a good thing that libreoffice has surfaced, to replace openoffice?

Whilst Sun did not grok FLOSS, they were sympathetic to the idea. Oracle does not grok FLOSS, and is actively hostile towards FLOSS.


if its by the people who made openoffice, why not just continue with openoffice?

Under Sun, OOO limped along, neglected, but not otherwise too badly mistreated.

Under Oracle, OOo is an unwanted step-child, and treated with, what might be charitably called, _deliberate, abject neglect_.

With the fork, LibreOffice is taking a step towards self-responsibility, and independence. It has the potential to become great. It can also dissapear. For each reason that suggests it will succeed, there is a reason that suggests it will fail. Only time will tell if the potential for success outweighs the risks for failure.

Note also, that for FLOSS, "success" and "failure" lack the same values, and perhaps even the same definitions as they do for closed source and proprietary software.

jonathon

KiwiNZ
September 28th, 2010, 10:23 PM
Whilst Sun did not grok FLOSS, they were sympathetic to the idea. Oracle does not grok FLOSS, and is actively hostile towards FLOSS.



Under Sun, OOO limped along, neglected, but not otherwise too badly mistreated.

Under Oracle, OOo is an unwanted step-child, and treated with, what might be charitably called, _deliberate, abject neglect_.

With the fork, LibreOffice is taking a step towards self-responsibility, and independence. It has the potential to become great. It can also dissapear. For each reason that suggests it will succeed, there is a reason that suggests it will fail. Only time will tell if the potential for success outweighs the risks for failure.

Note also, that for FLOSS, "success" and "failure" lack the same values, and perhaps even the same definitions as they do for closed source and proprietary software.

jonathon

Citations please

Hexster71FD
September 28th, 2010, 10:25 PM
wow! it does indeed load a lot faster, and this is on an i7. im certainly going to uncheck this box on my netbook install now, too.

for others that want to give this a try & watch OO.o load a zillion times faster:

tools -> options -> java -> uncheck it

Wow is right! It loads very fast now.
That's a noticeable performance increase right there! :KS

...and I thought that checking in on this thread was just going to be rants about Oracle :P

mkendall
September 28th, 2010, 10:38 PM
Seriously, how is LibreOffice any worse than StarOffice, KOffice, WordPerfect Office, iWork, or (even worse than even Coughice) MicroSoft Office?

malspa
September 28th, 2010, 11:07 PM
I don't have any problem with the name, but I've seen quite a few complaints about it already. A friend of mine mentioned that it's a temporary name but I don't know the facts behind that.

jonathonblake
September 28th, 2010, 11:25 PM
There was no indication from Oracle that they were going to stop,alter or affect Open Office in the short , medium or long term.

Au contraire, the only question is/was how Oracle was going to announce the demise of OOo.



jonathon

KiwiNZ
September 28th, 2010, 11:37 PM
Au contraire, the only question is/was how Oracle was going to announce the demise of OOo.



jonathon

Again Citation please

or should your posts be regarded and treated as flame bait and moderated

Quake
September 28th, 2010, 11:48 PM
Again Citation please

or should your posts be regarded and treated as flame bait and moderated
I think what he means is that the OpenOffice community was apprehensive about its future seeing how OpenSolaris was shutdown.

And when Oracle was asked about OpenOffice.org future, all they said was: "No comment". That doesn't aspire confidence.
From ZDNet:
"At the time, I asked Oracle if it also intended to scrap OpenOffice development but the official response was ‘No Comment.”"
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/openofficeorg-forsakes-oracle-forms-new-foundation-and-fork/7445

KiwiNZ
September 28th, 2010, 11:54 PM
I think what he means is that the OpenOffice community was apprehensive about its future seeing how OpenSolaris was shutdown.

And when Oracle was asked about OpenOffice.org future, all they said was: "No comment". That doesn't aspire confidence.
From ZDNet:
"At the time, I asked Oracle if it also intended to scrap OpenOffice development but the official response was ‘No Comment.”"
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/openofficeorg-forsakes-oracle-forms-new-foundation-and-fork/7445

That is one blog, that does not cite its source therefore is of no value.

sgosnell
September 29th, 2010, 12:00 AM
To install it, run
sudo dpkg -i *.deb while in the DEBS directory. Gdebi is a little flaky on doing this sort of thing, it doesn't know how to compare the dependencies and install the .deb files in the proper order. Dpkg does.

The Cog
September 29th, 2010, 12:02 AM
how to install the debs? gdebi says dependencies aren't satisfied....think I may wait until this hits the repos...

Unpack it, cd to the DEBS folder and sudo dpkg -i *.deb is the way I always install OOo.

qamelian
September 29th, 2010, 12:06 AM
wow! it does indeed load a lot faster, and this is on an i7. im certainly going to uncheck this box on my netbook install now, too.

for others that want to give this a try & watch OO.o load a zillion times faster:

tools -> options -> java -> uncheck it
Yep, and for most users there really isn't any reason not to do this. If you find a need for java support in the future, it's equally easy to turn it back on. :)

gradinaruvasile
September 29th, 2010, 12:10 AM
Unpack it, cd to the DEBS folder and sudo dpkg -i *.deb is the way I always install OOo.

Dont forget the debs from DEBS/desktop-integration folder too... Otherwise you will not have menu entries.

jonathonblake
September 29th, 2010, 12:28 AM
Again Citation please

Oracle's official policy regarding FLOSS, and their adherence of that policy since they first announced that policy.

jonathon

Sslaxx
September 29th, 2010, 12:36 AM
Oracle's official policy regarding FLOSS, and their adherence of that policy since they first announced that policy.

jonathon
Not able to provide a link? Then there is nothing to say.

Put up or shut up.

beew
September 29th, 2010, 12:38 AM
Suns "pay for" version gave you some additional features.

There was no indication from Oracle that they were going to stop,alter or affect Open Office in the short , medium or long term. There had of course been a lot of Geek Blog fests and GNU Fests from the bearded one and that anti mono site that I refuse to mention as I will need to reach for a barf bag , dammit I need to now , grrrrrrr.

There is no indication that Oracle would in fact kill OO.O,--some people may disagree,-- but the fact that people are worrying about it shows a fundamental vulnerability of tying an Open Source project to the good will and bottom line consideration of a single Corporate sponsor. I don't see how it is so difficult a point to appreciate and I am not sure what you are trying to argue against.

KiwiNZ
September 29th, 2010, 12:38 AM
Oracle's official policy regarding FLOSS, and their adherence of that policy since they first announced that policy.

jonathon

That is NOT citation . Where is your quoted references?

Just as a little lesson here is some of Oracles support of Open source

http://www.oracle.com/us/technologies/open-source/index.html

http://www.fsf.org/patrons

beew
September 29th, 2010, 12:59 AM
That is NOT citation . Where is your quoted references?

Just as a little lesson here is some of Oracles support of Open source

http://www.oracle.com/us/technologies/open-source/index.html

http://www.fsf.org/patrons

The absence of evidence is not the the same as an evidence of absence, indeed one of the argument is that Oracle has not made its intention known so it is disingenuous for you to ask for citations,--citations of what? Some worries may turns out to be unfounded, but these are possibilities and if they don't materialize it would be because these people have misjudged Oracle's intention. But why do you want to keep OO.O in a situation where Oracle's intention would mean life or death for the project in the first place?

As for your "little lesson" (how smug) I again fail to see your point. Oracle is invited to join the foundation, so if it wants to continue to contribute it will be welcome.

KiwiNZ
September 29th, 2010, 01:20 AM
The absence of evidence is not the the same as an evidence of absence, i........

And if that was say MS saying that about Canonical you and others would be crying FUD.

Oh the irony.

I have presented the presence of evidence not the presence of rumor.

beew
September 29th, 2010, 01:22 AM
And if that was say MS saying that about Canonical you and others would be crying FUD.

Oh the irony.

I have presented the presence of evidence not the presence of rumor.

I see you have avoided the main point while focusing on a throw away phrase. How honest of you. Why would you want to put all the eggs in one basket, what if you are wrong?

KiwiNZ
September 29th, 2010, 01:37 AM
The Forking OOo is a mistake. There an adage , "divide and conquer" and this is what this is doing.

For OOo to continue to grow and compete it needs capital support and backing , EG Oracle as it did for years with Sun Corp. With out capital it risks languishing and defeat against a very strong and very good competitor.

Dustin2128
September 29th, 2010, 01:55 AM
With out capital it risks languishing and defeat against a very strong and very good competitor.
MSO is suddenly very good? High level of penetration, yes, very strong, yes. But being forced to use '03 and '07 for school for years, I consider them a sub par suite.

murderslastcrow
September 29th, 2010, 02:39 AM
I've had a hard enough time getting people to try OpenOffice.org, which seems to be a bit hit these days, akin to Firefox in success rates. Now I have to tell them about this?

Hopefully it becomes good enough to stand on its own, and the idea that their 'more open' approach will create better software. You still need contributors, and you still need to man hours. However, with Google, Novell, and Red Hat among sponsors, it might be the way to go.

It's days like today that I really, really miss Sun.

1roxtar
September 29th, 2010, 04:16 AM
My (quite possibly faulty) understanding of this is that, at the moment, LibreOffice's primary Achilles Heel would be the dependency upon Java for the database backend. Any code assigned to Oracle might be an issue as well (although possibly less of one, due to the licensing).

I was thinking the same thing. Will LibreOffice still depend on Sun-Java or will it be modified to run with something like Open-JRE???

JDShu
September 29th, 2010, 07:00 AM
MSO is suddenly very good? High level of penetration, yes, very strong, yes. But being forced to use '03 and '07 for school for years, I consider them a sub par suite.

MS Office is far superior to Open Office. It looks better and does more.



For OOo to continue to grow and compete it needs capital support and backing , EG Oracle as it did for years with Sun Corp. With out capital it risks languishing and defeat against a very strong and very good competitor.

Open Office is languishing already, the fork is not going to make it any worse than it is.

mastablasta
September 29th, 2010, 07:04 AM
i just have to say - i really don't get it. i mean what could possibly be gained?

Some mentioned you need some financial support.

Mozilla &Thunderbird have mozilla foundation, Ubuntu has Cannonical, Fedora has Red Hat.... there is no major open source programme without any financial backing.

Ok there is Google here, but arent' they more interested in their google docs?

And to me the one and only issue preventing people to be using open office is the ability to have same format as is for MS Office (that currently majority of people use). Until they have the same file standard that is fully interchangable, i don't think Open office would really take off.

At the moment it is on th elevel of MS 2003. It is also compatible with it, but only on a basic level. I moved a book written in OOo and saved in MS format to MSO 2003. The pictures didnt' align, the fonts were not the same... to mention just a few issues.

As i know OOo calc also doesn't have all functions from MS office, which got very advanced in last few years (just the way you do preview of themed text for example or most things) and very good online and offline support.

I am not a MS fan and would love to use Open source, but as is now things are just not compatible with what majority uses.

be it called LibreOffice or OpenOffice - they have to solve compatibility first and secondly try not to be like MS Office but better (with even more functions, better GUI...). That was the way Firefox beat MS IE (at leats in my country they did).

ukripper
September 29th, 2010, 11:09 AM
I just want the VBA to work, and that isn't the same as Mono/.NET. VBA is closer to Gambas than Mono.

In that case rewrite VBA code in python which has rich libs like xlwt,xlrd,xlutils and you never will be dissapointed. I have done the same on 100+ vba macros (glad I done it). VBA is quite limited for my projects, python has given me enough power to manipulate any data with minimal effort even linking csv classes to relational db (sqlite mainly) further linking xl* libs to work on relational problems with elegance.

Khakilang
September 29th, 2010, 11:13 AM
My document have gone through from Office 2003, 2007 and now OpenOffice. I just hope it survive LibreOffice.

malspa
September 29th, 2010, 11:19 AM
While it's true that MS Office is better in a lot of ways that OpenOffice, and while it's also true that there are compatibility issues between the two, I think that OpenOffice is perfectly fine for general usage. I've been using it for several years now -- started using it back in my Windows days, instead of MS Office, and of course continued with it once I switched over to Linux.

I can't claim that it can meet everyone's needs -- I did need to keep MS Office installed for one of the jobs I had because it was too much of a hassle trying to convert certain documents between MS Office and OOo.

hamstermoon
September 29th, 2010, 11:33 AM
Hi,

The last kernel update which landed last night here in the UK gave me a bit of a scare.

I am running an MSIU230 (named Nubbin) which is a rather nifty little thing a bit bigger than a netbook, but small enough for me to carry around in my backpack without giving me a hernia. I comes with a ralink rt3090 wireless card which took a bit of a job getting working until I got the patch from Markus Tisoft via help from this forum.

Last night the update stopped the wireless again and after a bit arm waving I realised I had to reinstall the patch. I have put in a safe place in case its needed again ;-)

When 10.10 comes out I am fearful this upgrade it might break things again and the patch trick might not work this time.

Any news to the contrary or am I going to have to sit here with my fingers crossed that I am not going to have to rely on an ethernet cable for internet on my little computer friend?

philinux
September 29th, 2010, 11:53 AM
Moved to 10.10 testing forum.

saulgoode
September 29th, 2010, 12:14 PM
There had of course been a lot of Geek Blog fests and GNU Fests from the bearded one and that anti mono site that I refuse to mention as I will need to reach for a barf bag , dammit I need to now , grrrrrrr.

Citations please.

or should your posts be regarded and treated as flame bait and moderated

beew
September 29th, 2010, 04:37 PM
MS Office is far superior to Open Office. It looks better and does more.


No, "looks better" is subjective and I like the look of Open Office more than that Windozy look of MSO.

It may do more, but how many users need those additional bells and whistles and some of those "more" is not even in the basic MSO package and you need to pay additional for it (e.g Visio). For those "more" you should look for other open source programs. OOO doesn't have to be an everything in one office suite to be successful.

beew
September 29th, 2010, 04:47 PM
The compatibility issue is MS's problem because its formats are closed. Instead of seeing the unfairness of the requirement for competitors to reveres engineer the close formats from scratch thus wasting much time and resources which could have been put to better use, some of you just take cheap shots at the competitor for not doing a good enough job in being compatible. I am honestly sick of this attitude.

Well do the world a favour, if you worry about compatibility then dump MSO. All compatibility issue would go away. MS wants its format to be the standard, yet refuse to open them in order to exhort users for money. There is no way they can have both, it is like requiring people to pay a fee for using the metric system.

MSO of course has more advanced features, it is MS's flagship product and do you know how much money and man-hour have been dumped into its development? But I think all things considered,--cost, actual need etc,--its advantage over OOO is vastly exaggerated simply because some people implicitly use Ms as a standard so the game is rigged (and these same people at the same breath blame Open Office for trying to be like MSO)

Tibuda
September 29th, 2010, 05:47 PM
The compatibility issue is MS's problem because its formats are closed.
lolwut (http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-376.htm)

buzzmandt
September 29th, 2010, 05:48 PM
upgrading to 10.10 is rather unnecessary with lucid being an lts it'd be good for a few years.

best thing to do is to download the live cd and run it live either live cd or if your system is like most netbooks without a cdrom you could run it as a live usb to see if your wireless works out-of-the-box. If it doesn't work live chances are it doesn't work installed either. having said that it's possible your patch will work with 10.10 as well.

Dragonbite
September 29th, 2010, 05:51 PM
In that case rewrite VBA code in python which has rich libs like xlwt,xlrd,xlutils and you never will be dissapointed. I have done the same on 100+ vba macros (glad I done it). VBA is quite limited for my projects, python has given me enough power to manipulate any data with minimal effort even linking csv classes to relational db (sqlite mainly) further linking xl* libs to work on relational problems with elegance.

You mean use Python for OpenOffice's VBA (Macros)? Hmm.. that may be an idea. I used VBA in MS Office which got me into my current track (VBA -> ASP -> ASP.NET). MS Office can't use Python macros, can it?

While most of my stuff hops between OpenOffice (usually in Linux) and MS Office in Windows which probably requires VBA, I kind alike the idea of trying to do things in Python.

Can OpenOffice record actions into Python the way MS Office can record to a macro (thus VBA)?

tadcan
September 29th, 2010, 06:48 PM
The Forking OOo is a mistake. There an adage , "divide and conquer" and this is what this is doing.

For OOo to continue to grow and compete it needs capital support and backing , EG Oracle as it did for years with Sun Corp. With out capital it risks languishing and defeat against a very strong and very good competitor.

I disagree. In this case I think this is where the strength of open source comes out. A project linked to a company which is unlikely to offer much, if any help, will rise from the ashes and keep it alive. With Go-oo it seems that their were developers who wanted to be more proactive with changes that wasn't possible under Sun. I look forward to see what the new committee unhindered by corporate politics can come up with.

bash
September 29th, 2010, 06:49 PM
MS Office can't use Python macros, can it?

This might be a start for Python macros in MS Office:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2141967/using-python-to-program-ms-office-macros

Haven't tried it myself so no idea if and how well it works.

maybeway36
September 29th, 2010, 09:02 PM
So this will essentially replace go-oo? (http://go-oo.org) It certainly should - no use having that when you've got a working fork.
Also, is it really going to be called "LibreOffice"? I know libre is Spanish (and French) for "free," but it just doesn't sound as... professional as OpenOffice.org did.

CharlesA
September 29th, 2010, 09:07 PM
Threads merged.

forrestcupp
September 29th, 2010, 09:19 PM
The Forking OOo is a mistake. There an adage , "divide and conquer" and this is what this is doing.

For OOo to continue to grow and compete it needs capital support and backing , EG Oracle as it did for years with Sun Corp. With out capital it risks languishing and defeat against a very strong and very good competitor.

There is one possibility that a fork could actually be favorable to Oracle. Like you have stated, Oracle is a supporter of the FSF. So with this fork, they can completely give up the responsibility of having to maintain software that they may not care about, while still looking good to the world by being a major financial backer. They know that OOo is very popular, and if they can unload the responsibility, yet still have their name out there by being a backer, it could be a very favorable move for them.

Dustin2128
September 29th, 2010, 09:32 PM
lolwut (http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-376.htm)
The reason it's called an open format is mostly because of lobbying. As was my argument in a previous thread, if microsoft just loves open formats so much, then why make its own instead of contributing to the already matured ones currently available?

also, why was the 'Will 10.10 fix the problem with ralink rt3090 wireless cards?' thread merged into this one?

Tibuda
September 29th, 2010, 09:36 PM
The reason it's called an open format is mostly because of lobbying.
No, it is called an open format because it is an open format. The specs are all there on that link.


As was my argument in a previous thread, if microsoft just loves open formats so much, then why make its own instead of contributing to the already matured ones currently available?
I don't think MS "loves" open formats.

Dustin2128
September 29th, 2010, 09:42 PM
No, it is called an open format because it is an open format. The specs are all there on that link.


I don't think MS "loves" open formats.
here's something for you to chew on:http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

obviously a slightly biased source, but this paragraph jumped out at me

Microsoft Office 2007 uses by default a format based on the patented OOXML format. (This is the one that Microsoft got declared an “open standard” by political manipulation and packing standards committees.) The actual format is not entirely OOXML, and it is not entirely documented. Microsoft offers a gratis patent license for OOXML on terms which do not allow free implementations. We are thus beginning to receive Word files in a format that free programs are not even allowed to read.

Tibuda
September 29th, 2010, 09:49 PM
here's something for you to chew on:http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

obviously a slightly biased source, but this paragraph jumped out at me

I prefer to chew toe cheese.

lykwydchykyn
September 29th, 2010, 09:56 PM
i just have to say - i really don't get it. i mean what could possibly be gained?



So this will essentially replace go-oo? (http://go-oo.org) It certainly should - no use having that when you've got a working fork.
Also, is it really going to be called "LibreOffice"? I know libre is Spanish (and French) for "free," but it just doesn't sound as... professional as OpenOffice.org did.

Some of these questions may be answered here:

http://people.gnome.org/~michael/blog/2010-09-28.html

This is the blog of one of the lead go-oo devs.

Dustin2128
September 29th, 2010, 10:44 PM
I prefer to chew toe cheese.
then you refuse to listen to information that contradicts your own conceptions in this matter?

Sslaxx
September 29th, 2010, 11:00 PM
So this will essentially replace go-oo? (http://go-oo.org) It certainly should - no use having that when you've got a working fork.
Understand that at least one of the GO-OO developers is opposed to the LibreOffice development, so quite possibly not in the near future at the least.

Tibuda
September 29th, 2010, 11:50 PM
then you refuse to listen to information that contradicts your own conceptions in this matter?

No. I refuse to listen to affirmations with no proof or citation, just like other RMS/FSF campaigns, like the anti-mono article or seven sins. Bart Simpson.

Dustin2128
September 30th, 2010, 12:26 AM
No. I refuse to listen to affirmations with no proof or citation, just like other RMS/FSF campaigns, like the anti-mono article or seven sins. Bart Simpson.
haven't seen anti-mono article, but the 7 sins did cite sources. If you want more, here and here:
http://www.wired.com/software/coolapps/news/2007/01/72403
http://grokdoc.net/index.php/EOOXML_objections

EDIT: and here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standardization_of_Office_Open_XML#Reactions_to_st andardization

Half-Left
September 30th, 2010, 12:41 AM
The reason it's called an open format is mostly because of lobbying. As was my argument in a previous thread, if microsoft just loves open formats so much, then why make its own instead of contributing to the already matured ones currently available?

Probably a power play or that Microsoft don't like the other licences. Again they choose the licence, they choose on what grounds they release the format. It's all about them.

scouser73
September 30th, 2010, 12:49 AM
Just installed LibreOffice and for those that would also like to install it then please see Install LibreOffice (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9905673&postcount=9)

Dustin2128
September 30th, 2010, 01:08 AM
Probably a power play or that Microsoft don't like the other licences. Again they choice the licence, they choice on what grounds they release the format. It's all about them.
I don't mind that, they can feel free to use whatever proprietary formats they want on their editor. What enrages me is that they passed it off as an open format and rushed it through governments to make it the standard in much of the world, displacing open document format. That gets my blood boiling.

Half-Left
September 30th, 2010, 01:19 AM
I don't mind that, they can feel free to use whatever proprietary formats they want on their editor. What enrages me is that they passed it off as an open format and rushed it through governments to make it the standard in much of the world, displacing open document format. That gets my blood boiling.

That's what Microsoft do and they know how to steamroller any competing format, software or company.

papangul
September 30th, 2010, 06:51 AM
Opensolaris was forked sometime ago, Openoffice just got forked - what next, mysql? (Not to mention a fork of java already exists in the form of C#)

Edit: I did some reading and it appears that there is no need to fork mysql, people just need to switch to and/or put their weight behind PostgreSQL.

ukripper
September 30th, 2010, 08:20 AM
You mean use Python for OpenOffice's VBA (Macros)? Hmm.. that may be an idea. I used VBA in MS Office which got me into my current track (VBA -> ASP -> ASP.NET). MS Office can't use Python macros, can it?

While most of my stuff hops between OpenOffice (usually in Linux) and MS Office in Windows which probably requires VBA, I kind alike the idea of trying to do things in Python.

Can OpenOffice record actions into Python the way MS Office can record to a macro (thus VBA)?

Well i meant rewriting from scratch python code. But what you are asking is something like this http://www.resolversystems.com/products/resolver-one/ . Personally, I haven't used resolver one but i am quite intrigued by the project. If it serves your purpose you can give it a go in trial mode.


Note

Resolver One embeds IronPython, the Microsoft .NET reimplementation of the Python language. This combines all the elegance of the Python language with the ability to use .NET features, such as calling C# libraries.


Watch videos here http://www.resolversystems.com/screencasts/resolver-one-in-one/

Luffield
September 30th, 2010, 08:47 AM
My (quite possibly faulty) understanding of this is that, at the moment, LibreOffice's primary Achilles Heel would be the dependency upon Java for the database backend. Any code assigned to Oracle might be an issue as well (although possibly less of one, due to the licensing).
At the bottom of this page there's an indication that you're very likely to be right:

http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/LibreOffice/EasyHacks?action=show&redirect=Software/libreoffice/EasyHacks

newbie2
September 30th, 2010, 09:29 AM
What enrages me is that they passed it off as an open format and rushed it through governments to make it the standard in much of the world, displacing open document format. That gets my blood boiling.
Yep, mine too : http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=34510&start=30#p158425
:rolleyes:

Johnsie
September 30th, 2010, 09:54 AM
I'm getting tired of people making Oracle out to be evil. Oracle are one of the two biggest financial contributors to open source software, the other being Google.

ukripper
September 30th, 2010, 10:06 AM
I'm getting tired of people making Oracle out to be evil. Oracle are one of the two biggest financial contributors to open source software, the other being Google.

Forgetting IBM?

Dragonbite
September 30th, 2010, 02:28 PM
So this will essentially replace go-oo? (http://go-oo.org) It certainly should - no use having that when you've got a working fork.
Also, is it really going to be called "LibreOffice"? I know libre is Spanish (and French) for "free," but it just doesn't sound as... professional as OpenOffice.org did.

If this all works out, this could be a great move by unifying the development work that was split going into OpenOffice and Go-oo. Heck, depending on how things go, IBM may even contribute and mix in code for their Lotus Symphony or drop it for LOo.

Leadership is the key, though. Let's hope these groups can really work together to make this something great!

maddbaron
September 30th, 2010, 02:52 PM
finally got it installed, might remove openoffice now but it looks like i will make symphony my main office program now...it really like it...

Ric_NYC
September 30th, 2010, 03:23 PM
Removing OpenOffice.

I hope LibreOffice first move is to change the Openoffice interface. That old look is unacceptable in 2010.

Dragonbite
September 30th, 2010, 03:51 PM
Removing OpenOffice.

I hope LibreOffice first move is to change the Openoffice interface. That old look is unacceptable in 2010.

Be great if they could come up with an interface that is slick like the ribbon, but different enough to keep the people that don't "get" the ribbon interface happy.

forrestcupp
September 30th, 2010, 03:55 PM
(Not to mention a fork of java already exists in the form of C#)

That's a joke, right?

motang
September 30th, 2010, 04:02 PM
This is cool news, and could also mean more customization on a distro basis.

grahammechanical
September 30th, 2010, 04:55 PM
I have glanced through all the posts. Phew! What a lot and diverse. Can I add something that I do not think has been mentioned? If I am wrong then, sorry.

As I understand things one of the reasons for the existence of Go-oo was the objection of some developers having code that they had donated to OpenOffice become someone else's copyright material. Was this not happening under the Sun Overlordship of OpenOffice?

Also, some developers found that their efforts (code) did not carry equal weight against other developers who were paid workers of Sun. Am I correct?

I notice from the Document Foundation website that these issues are resolved by the formation of this foundation.

regards

Starks
September 30th, 2010, 05:17 PM
I don't mind tinkering, but I'll wait for a PPA.
And here it is with instructions...

http://gericom.wordpress.com/2010/09/28/libre-office-openoffice-fork-sponsored-by-canonical-novell-google/

BTW, change the curly quotes to regular quotes and use sudo tee instead of just tee.

papangul
September 30th, 2010, 05:21 PM
That's a joke, right?
Can you really blame me if the world started to appear somewhat topsy-turvy after some recent developments.:mad:

Tore Simonsen
October 4th, 2010, 03:29 PM
Email exchange regarding the use of Open Office instead of Microsoft licenses:

"What are we supposed to do with citizen inquiries such as this?" (http://bit.ly/9okBFC)

DeadSuperHero
October 4th, 2010, 04:34 PM
Be great if they could come up with an interface that is slick like the ribbon, but different enough to keep the people that don't "get" the ribbon interface happy.

Either that, or change the interface toolkit. I'm tired of having the half-integration that is the Swing toolkit. Maybe go for Qt or GTK?

Dragonbite
October 4th, 2010, 04:38 PM
Either that, or change the interface toolkit. I'm tired of having the half-integration that is the Swing toolkit. Maybe go for Qt or GTK?

I'm not sure how well those two integrate with both Windows and Mac, whereas Java should be relatively consistent so I don't think they'll change that anytime soon.

Then again, I don't know enough to say this with any authority.

Plus, they probably won't go with Qt or GTK because it places it in the camp of KDE-focused or Gnome-focused application and that's just asking for a massive flame-war!

DeadSuperHero
October 4th, 2010, 04:48 PM
I'm not sure how well those two integrate with both Windows and Mac, whereas Java should be relatively consistent so I don't think they'll change that anytime soon.

Then again, I don't know enough to say this with any authority.

Plus, they probably won't go with Qt or GTK because it places it in the camp of KDE-focused or Gnome-focused application and that's just asking for a massive flame-war!

In my experience, Qt actually integrates really well with a little doing. And in all seriousness, it integrates well enough into both Gnome and KDE if it were to go with a Qt-based toolkit approach. Either way, the point is that it's currently really poorly implemented with Swing, and it shows.

Dragonbite
October 4th, 2010, 04:57 PM
In my experience, Qt actually integrates really well with a little doing. And in all seriousness, it integrates well enough into both Gnome and KDE if it were to go with a Qt-based toolkit approach. Either way, the point is that it's currently really poorly implemented with Swing, and it shows.

I've heard Qt is cross-platform with Windows (haven't tried it though), but what about on Macs?

OpenOffice, like Firefox, is one of those open source programs that *needs* to be fully cross-platform.

Dustin2128
October 4th, 2010, 05:06 PM
That's what Microsoft do and they know how to steamroller any competing format, software or company.

Maybe I'm just not keeping up, but with all the markets they're failing in (phone market, browser market) and shooting themselves in the foot in (patent trolling android using phone manufacturers who also make windows phones), I didn't think they still had enough power to destroy an established format; this isn't 2003. Guess I've just been reading too much /. huh?

And as for closed formats hindering disaster recovery, that's not just blood boiling, that's sickening.

bash
October 4th, 2010, 06:02 PM
I'm not sure how well those two integrate with both Windows and Mac, whereas Java should be relatively consistent so I don't think they'll change that anytime soon.

Then again, I don't know enough to say this with any authority.

Plus, they probably won't go with Qt or GTK because it places it in the camp of KDE-focused or Gnome-focused application and that's just asking for a massive flame-war!

Well they could always try to separate the GUI parts from the rest of the code. I think it would probably be the ideal solution as everyone could then create a GUI front-end in their own native toolkit. I don't know how realistic it is though, that something like this will happen.

bash
October 4th, 2010, 06:03 PM
And here it is with instructions...

http://gericom.wordpress.com/2010/09/28/libre-office-openoffice-fork-sponsored-by-canonical-novell-google/

BTW, change the curly quotes to regular quotes and use sudo tee instead of just tee.

Although there are some 64bits provided in the blog post, the repo linked there is i368 only.

newbie2
October 4th, 2010, 06:57 PM
Yes, it appears that Oracle has decided to speak to this finally.

There was a mail sent to the marketing ML by Martin Hollmichel at Oracle:

issues regarding the Document Foundation should be discussed within that project, not within OpenOffice.org.

I consider such marketing materials as a conflict of interests between two projects with different objectives. I'd appreciate the removal of that material and also would expect the discussion of LibreOffice related issues to happen elsewhere but not here.
http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=34510&start=30#p159008
:rolleyes:

Dragonbite
October 4th, 2010, 07:46 PM
http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=34510&start=30#p159008
:rolleyes:

It only makes sense, who wants a competing product discussed in their communication, especially when the competing product is collecting mindshare from your project?

bash
October 4th, 2010, 08:32 PM
http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=34510&start=30#p159008
:rolleyes:

And there I hoped for some sort of statement about the OOo brand and what Oracle plans to do with it for the future.

But this is just about some technicality. Which I understand though. LibreOffice split from Oracle and it's infrastructure so it's doesn't seem quite appropriate to continue using the Oracle OOo mailing lists for LO matters.

newbie2
October 5th, 2010, 04:14 AM
LibreOffice split from Oracle and it's infrastructure so it's doesn't seem quite appropriate to continue using the Oracle OOo mailing lists for LO matters.

Just to let people know the DocumentFouncation mailing lists are now being archived on the Nabbl web server -

http://documentfoundation.969070.n3.nabble.com/

Currently this only includes 3 mailing lists, Announce, Discuss and Mirrors.

Using Nabble you can read the archives and you can also subscribe to a mailing list via Nabble which allows you to post directly to the Mailing list without actually having to catch all the email in your inbox, rather you can use the web interface in a fashion similar to a web forum.
http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=34510&start=30#p158960

Dustin2128
October 5th, 2010, 04:41 AM
I wonder if this is going to be a new super-thread. I wonder if in a few years, linux users will even know that libre office used to be OO.O and developed by sun and oracle.

bash
October 5th, 2010, 05:02 AM
http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=34510&start=30#p158960

Yea I know that the docfoundation got their on infrastructure. But as the mail from the Oracle employee said, the Oracle hosted lists were still being used to discuss LO matters and questions.

Did a quick search and found the list in question including the original mail with the statement [1]. And I can understand the reaction; questions like "please advise how to donate money to non-Oracle OpenOffice.org" [2] do seem kind of inappropriate on the Oracle OOo marketing mailing list.

Anyway, through one of the mails on the list I found a link to news post, containing an official statement from Oracle about OOo from after the LO split. And it doesn't look like they will be giving up the brand:


Oracle issued a statement in response to the Document Foundation news. "Oracle is investing substantial resources in OpenOffice.org," the company said. "With more than one hundred million users, we believe OpenOffice.org is the most advanced, most feature rich open source implementation and will strongly encourage the Open Office community to continue to contribute through www.openoffice.org. However, the beauty of open source is that it can be forked by anyone who chooses, as was done today. Our sincerest goal for Open Office is that it become more widely used so if this new foundation will help advance Open Office and the Open Document Format we wish them the best."

Source: http://www.crn.com/news/applications-os/227500950/openoffice-developers-split-from-oracle-create-own-organization.htm;jsessionid=cCtxrCjGOK4H9VTx6K66ZA **.ecappj01


[1] http://marketing.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=30946
[2] http://marketing.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=30917

Khakilang
October 5th, 2010, 08:21 AM
I wonder if this is going to be a new super-thread. I wonder if in a few years, linux users will even know that libre office used to be OO.O and developed by sun and oracle.

It will, just like Word Perfect and WordStar that die off and nobody know what they are except for some older generation computer user like myself. May they rest in peace.
:guitar:

andymorton
October 5th, 2010, 12:10 PM
As I've previously posted I was planning on trying out LibreOffice but I had to do a fresh install a few days ago and lost the download. (I was messing around with plymouth and my computer decided not to start up anymore. Completely my own fault). I'll download and install the beta again when I get the chance to have a proper look at it.

andy

Slug71
October 5th, 2010, 02:30 PM
I wonder how long before the name becomes official or an official name is chosen.

Frogs Hair
October 5th, 2010, 03:39 PM
Great news that OO will go on regardless of what name is used , but I'm no hurry to change over at the moment . I will wait and see how this unfolds for now.

Spice Weasel
October 5th, 2010, 04:34 PM
It will, just like Word Perfect and WordStar that die off and nobody know what they are except for some older generation computer user like myself. May they rest in peace.
:guitar:

Eww... Blue background with yellow text. I don't miss WP at all, since it reminded me of a BSoD.

Saying that, the newer versions do look quite nice.

BrokenKingpin
October 5th, 2010, 05:00 PM
Good news, but hate the name.

scouser73
October 5th, 2010, 06:07 PM
Good news, but hate the name.

Well The Document Foundation (the people behind LibreOffice) are hoping that Oracle pass over the OpenOffice name, but it's a long shot. As long as LibreOffice or whatever name they will use, I'll give them my full support.

newbie2
October 5th, 2010, 06:07 PM
Good news, but hate the name.
What about LibO (http://documentfoundation.969070.n3.nabble.com/Re-GENERAL-New-name-tt1622461.html#a1622461) ?
:guitar:

malspa
October 5th, 2010, 06:11 PM
Well The Document Foundation (the people behind LibreOffice) are hoping that Oracle pass over the OpenOffice name, but it's a long shot. As long as LibreOffice or whatever name they will use, I'll give them my full support.

Me, too. I'm fine with "LibreOffice," but I don't care what they call it.

Dragonbite
October 5th, 2010, 06:14 PM
Well The Document Foundation (the people behind LibreOffice) are hoping that Oracle pass over the OpenOffice name, but it's a long shot. As long as LibreOffice or whatever name they will use, I'll give them my full support.

Oracle has stated "good luck with that guys", so it will not be called OpenOffice.

Oracle wishes LibreOffice the best, but won't directly cooperate (http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Oracle-wishes-LibreOffice-the-best-but-won-t-directly-cooperate-1102095.html)

pkslot
October 5th, 2010, 07:08 PM
What will be the office pack for Ubuntu in the future, now that OpenOffice has forked to LibreOffice?

Is it still going to be OpenOffice, or does Ubuntu change to Libre?

ironic.demise
October 5th, 2010, 07:12 PM
I beleive that Ubuntu will change to Libre.
OpenOffice won't be around anymore and that means that we may as well use Libre as it will have the support and functionality that Open has at the moment... besides as far as I can tell... Libre is almost the exact same as Open.

7h3d4rk0n3
October 5th, 2010, 07:16 PM
From what I can tell development for OO is still going on. Although, as to what direction Ubuntu will go, I guess only time will tell.

pkslot
October 5th, 2010, 07:30 PM
Did i get it wrong, or does OO go commercial?

If so, then Ubuntu would be inclined to use libre, i think.

Spice Weasel
October 5th, 2010, 07:36 PM
... FreeOffice? Isn't that okay?

Dragonbite
October 5th, 2010, 07:38 PM
... FreeOffice? Isn't that okay?

I thought it was already taken.

7h3d4rk0n3
October 5th, 2010, 07:39 PM
I'm not sure what OO is doing, I just know development isn't halting as they have a 3.3 beta out. But yes, if it does go commercial, then Ubuntu would most definitely go to LO.

LOL get LO, get LO, get LO, get LO, get LO, to the Windows to the wall :)

Song ftr...

TBABill
October 5th, 2010, 07:41 PM
I wish I could find the link I read about Libre Office from. In it Mark Shuttleworth is actually quoted as supporting it. Nothing was indicated about timing to get into Ubuntu, but he lent his name to supporting the project so I would imagine that equates to eventually becoming part of the repo offering in Ubuntu. I will cite if I can find the link again.

7h3d4rk0n3
October 5th, 2010, 07:45 PM
That would be cool.

Elfy
October 5th, 2010, 07:51 PM
Merged with the other libre office thread.

pkslot
October 5th, 2010, 08:08 PM
Merged with the other libre office thread.

Thanks ;)

NCLI
October 5th, 2010, 08:57 PM
Ubuntu will use LibreOffice in 11.04 and onwards (http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/09/libreoffice-google-novell-sponsored-openoffice-fork-launched/).

bash
October 5th, 2010, 10:38 PM
I beleive that Ubuntu will change to Libre.
OpenOffice won't be around anymore and that means that we may as well use Libre as it will have the support and functionality that Open has at the moment... besides as far as I can tell... Libre is almost the exact same as Open.

Why wouldn't OpenOffice.org (or as Oracle likes to call it now: Oracle Open Office) not be around any more?

A lot of people seem to forget that a large number of contributions to OOo came and still come from paid SUN (now Oracle) employees. These people are full time employees of Oracle paid to further develop OOo. They won't just magically disappear now that LO is announced and I highly doubt that they will give up their paid job working on OOo to go work on LO for free.

As for OOo becoming commercial, I don't think it would make sense out of a business perspective. The way I see it, Oracle sees itself here in competition with Microsoft for business customers. Microsoft is doing really well with their business Office ecosystem, were they created a wide array of different services that integrate tightly into MS Office. One such example would be the MS Sharepoint Server. Sure there are third-party offerings like Alfresco, but they're not integrated as seamless and perfectly as the Microsoft versions and only always offer parts of the full package, but never the whole ecosystem from one vendor.

I think Oracle might potentially want to target this area. Microsoft here has a very dominant position and there aren't really any competing products that offer the same level of features and inclusion. Having now a full-blown Office suite, could give Oracle the missing half to offer similar products and server services. In such a scenario, I think, OOo itself would probably stay free and see tight integration with Oracle products. This on the one to make migration and adoption very easy and on the other to give Oracle a first foothold and entryway to further promote their paid "backend" offerings like a "Sharepoint for OOo".

These are just musings from my side. No idea how accurate, if at all, these are. But I think they could present a plausible strategy.
What I really don't believe though, is that, with whatever Oracle has in mind for OOo, they are eyeing the home user market. I my opinion they are fully going after business customers. Though I do think OOo will still free, at least for non-commercial users, to help spread brand awareness and mouth-to-mouth promotion.

CarpKing
October 6th, 2010, 05:39 AM
What about LibO (http://documentfoundation.969070.n3.nabble.com/Re-GENERAL-New-name-tt1622461.html#a1622461) ?
:guitar:

Reading that thread reminds me of "This is Spinal Tap."

-"The name is difficult to pronounce for native English speakers"
-"But the name isn't difficult to pronounce and most people aren't native English speakers!"

-"Most people don't know or what "libre" means in the context of software"
-"But libre means true freedom!"

-"Doesn't it have the same volume with more steps in between?"
-"But it goes to eleven!"

alphacrucis2
October 7th, 2010, 03:40 AM
http://blogs.computerworld.com/17097the_openoffice_fork_is_officially_here

http://www.documentfoundation.org/

I wonder how realistic this is. I guess it stems from unease over Oracle's take over of Sun.

CharlesA
October 7th, 2010, 03:45 AM
Threads merged.

macewan
October 9th, 2010, 01:51 AM
Given Oracle's past performance with OpenSolaris I'd say this is appropriate.

macewan
October 9th, 2010, 03:21 AM
Au contraire, the only question is/was how Oracle was going to announce the demise of OOo.



jonathon

Agreed, for those of us that have been with Linux since mid 90's you see the markings of another death bell. Remember when C# was up and coming followed shortly by Miguel's Mono implementation? Deep down we knew MS would turn its back on the promises it made with regards to C# & Mono.

When we saw Novell snatch up Ximian followed by SuSE I heard the bells again. Sure, SuSE has continued on but not with the same passion as before (opinion). Heck, even Nat jumped ship recently.

My first thought upon hearing the news of Oracle rescuing Sun was that Java & OpenSolaris were hosed. Just a matter of time. Not good or bad. Oracle is publicly traded and as such is expected to perform for their share holders and not for us warm-n-fuzzy technology types.

jonathonblake
October 10th, 2010, 11:13 PM
As for OOo becoming commercial, I don't think it would make sense out of a business perspective. The way I see it, Oracle sees itself here in competition with Microsoft for business customers.

a) Oracle OpenOffice, and its predecessor StarOffice are closed source proprietary programs;

b) All of the announcements that Oracle has made about future office suites, have been in terms of closed source, proprietary products;


I think Oracle might potentially want to target this area.

Going by 2002 US Census Bureau data:
* 4,765,525 firms have less than ten employees;
* 5,942,758 firms have between ten and one hundred employees;
* 106,897 firms have more than one hundred employees;
* 6,031,344 firms have less than five hundred employees.

* 4,784,575 establishments have less than ten employees;
* 6,190,370 establishments have between ten and one hundred employees;
* 1,514,648 establishments have more than one hundred employees;
* 6,546,223 establishments have less than five hundred employees;

Three quarters of all firms had no paid employees.

Oracle can't handle less than one hundred seats. This is always going to translate into more than 100 employees.

Do you know what size business Microsoft targeted?

Do you know what size business OOo is most commonly found in?


In such a scenario, I think, OOo itself would probably stay free and see tight integration with Oracle products.

Inasmuch as StarOffice, and its successor Oracle OpenOffice are closed source, proprietary products, Oracle would benefit from tight integration Of Oracle OpenOffice with its other products. Going by their website, it looks like that integration process has started. However, Oracle has not promised that those features will be either found, or usable in OpenOffice.org. Those features will be in Oracle OpenOffice --- a different product that is commercially sold, and in Oracle Cloud Office, a closed source, proprietary program that is cloud based.

jonathon

macewan
October 11th, 2010, 02:34 PM
Call me crazy but I think Novell will be snatched up next.

Dragonbite
October 11th, 2010, 02:37 PM
Call me crazy but I think Novell will be snatched up next.

Considering they are, or were, in talks with VMWare that's not much of a stretch.

Once the first offer popped up in the news, it is bascially only a matter of time. The smell of blood is too strong and they just haven't marketed them well enough.