Haiku - A future OS killer?

[afroman10496]

Lets say that in 5 years open source operating systems killed other operating systems... would haiku be one of the murderers?

[Old Marcus]

I doubt it, it's taken about a century for Haiku to get to alpha. :P

[Bachstelze]

I doubt it, it's taken about a century for Haiku to get to alpha. :P

It's alpha, now? You gotta be kidding me.

[fatality_uk]

Anything is possible, but in thi case, nah!

[JDShu]

While I think Haiku development will keep accelerating, by my guesstimates, I don't think 5 years is enough for it to become mature. Could be wrong though.

[Gone fishing]

Well I'll disagree - BeOS was very cool. Haiku is light, very responsive works well with multiprocessors etc.

Obviously it will have a problem of apps but I would think it would be very cool on netbooks and in 5 years mult-icore ARM processors might suit it very nicely.

[cpmman]

Omnipotent OS
Bears fruit
As of Onan's seed

[handy]

I think Haiku will be in pretty good shape inside of 5 years.

It could also get development input one way &/or another from corporations that want to use it on their products.

Its just so fast!

[CJ Master]

In my opinion, Haiku could be amazing - if they drop that stale, aging interface.

[afroman10496]

Yeah.. it would be my main netbook os if it got wifi right :) it literally boots in 3 seconds!

[Giant Speck]

Haiku has as much of a chance of destroying Linux as Ubuntu does of destroying Windows.

[Dustin2128]

I think it'll come around after the big CSS operating systems shrivel up. In a more diverse market with more open minded users, it'll be easier to gain a foothold. And with open source, every user gained can be a developer gained.
And yes, they desperately need a better UI.

[Legendary_Bibo]

The problem is that Haiku looks hideous. The majority of the market will gladly pay for more hardware because they think their computer will then be able to look prettier with a newer OS. People will see this and be turned off from it. Mark Stallman knows what's up. If an open operating system (Linux, BeOS, BSD, Solaris, whatever) wants to gain a following, then it has to look gorgeous. People still put up with Windows because it's pretty, or it's all they know. People buy Macs because they care about stability, and don't want to deal with viruses, and Macs are pretty as well. I've heard people embellish on how macs are so much greater, and easier, but have a learning curve (which because of this my dad then considers Windows as the greatest because there's no learning curve going from Windows to Windows :roll:). So besides getting more hardware support, we'be gotta make some things prettier.

[Brunellus]

BeOS--and now Haiku--was always the OS of the future. And always will be.

[Dragynn]

People still put up with Windows because it's pretty, or it's all they know.

That's not even true, for one, your statement pre-supposes that a couple billion Windows users are "putting up with it"....riiiiiiiight...

There's nothing "un-user-friendly" about Windows for joe-user, let's be realistic here. Windows will do anything you ask it to, including right-click in a lot of places linux won't, and it's not big on asking your permission for every little thing (caveat: i'm talking XP, not Vista), it crosses the T's and dots the I's and everything is easy to find. People use Windows because it WORKS and it's easy to use, the interface is adequate but I wouldn't call it "pretty". It's a "mature" OS, most versions of Linux are not. Most people who use it, do so with gusto, they aren't "putting up with it".

[NormanFLinux]

It needs a package manager and it needs a GUI network setup tool.

And the interface could be refreshed... after a decade, every one has moved on.

[Dustin2128]

That's not even true, for one, your statement pre-supposes that a couple billion Windows users are "putting up with it"....riiiiiiiight...

There's nothing "un-user-friendly" about Windows for joe-user, let's be realistic here. Windows will do anything you ask it to, including right-click in a lot of places linux won't, and it's not big on asking your permission for every little thing (caveat: i'm talking XP, not Vista), it crosses the T's and dots the I's and everything is easy to find. People use Windows because it WORKS and it's easy to use, the interface is adequate but I wouldn't call it "pretty". It's a "mature" OS, most versions of Linux are not. Most people who use it, do so with gusto, they aren't "putting up with it".
Yes, your average windows user finds windows easy to use (woah, shocker). After working with GNU/Linux and BSD systems exclusively for a couple months (technically I've used them exclusively at home for a little over 2 years, that was just summer break, not being forced to use it at school) I must say that I find windows difficult to put up with and illogical from the standpoint of a power user. Lettering drives? a file system that fragments over time? Inflexibility? REGISTRY? As LB said, they consider it easy to use since it's all they've used. Put 2 people who've never used computers before on a windows machine and an ubuntu machine, give a good rundown of basic skills, and what their systems can and cannot do before hand, and I'm pretty sure I know who's going to come out happier. As for your complaint about improved security, I for one, like that my operating system asks before a random file is allowed to execute. Good move on microsoft's part.

I highly doubt that most people use it with gusto, they have to deal with all the above points of faliure plus preformance decay (your average end-user isn't going to properly maintain his or her system; we know this). This is from experience (politely) refusing people who ask me to de-crapify people's computers as well- they often wish they'd bought a mac (which is usually when I mention linux).

[ElSlunko]

...

So so true. I was the go to nerd for all problems Windows related. used it for over a 13 years. I've spent the last 2 years (maybe 2.5) using linux exclusively and everytime I get asked to fix a windows PC (especially 7) I'm confused as to where everything is! It's neither difficult or unintuitive, simply unfamiliar.

[Dustin2128]

So so true. I was the go to nerd for all problems Windows related. used it for over a 13 years. I've spent the last 2 years (maybe 2.5) using linux exclusively and everytime I get asked to fix a windows PC (especially 7) I'm confused as to where everything is! It's neither difficult or unintuitive, simply unfamiliar.
Luckily I managed to mostly skip this as I pretty much became a geek after I installed linux, and most of the people who ask for help understand this.

[handy]

In my opinion, Haiku could be amazing - if they drop that stale, aging interface.

BeOS compatibility for first release, then they will start making improvements, is their stated plan.

[Gone fishing]

Haiku has as much of a chance of destroying Linux as Ubuntu does of destroying Windows.

So quite high then!

But seriously the Haiku interface has some good features tabs, sliding tabs, very little wastage of screen. It was very cool in 1995, yes it needs updating, but haiku's aim in the R1 release was to recreate BeOS as was the R2 will begin the modernizing.

5 years can be a long time in computing, thats the whole lifespan of windows 9x and a lot happened in those 5 years.

[Plumtreed]

I especially like the speed and find the appearance of Haiku OK. I'm looking forward to seeing it develop and try where I can to contribute but that involves learning a lot of 'new' things.

It could be truly great but it may have left its run too late. It seems to be trying develop an OS as we think of them today while others are looking at more advanced aspects, example, the cloud!......Unity in Ubuntu??

[phrostbyte]

Haiku has as much of a chance of destroying Linux as Ubuntu does of destroying Windows.

That doesn't bode well for the future of Linux if that's true. ;)

[Dragynn]

I highly doubt that most people use it with gusto, they have to deal with all the above points of faliure plus preformance decay

Windows has lasted for 5 years on a computer I built in 2005, Ubuntu lasted for a month.
fact.

Yes they do use it with gusto, people have a great time on the interwebs doing their thing, and most of them don't spend a moment of their day EVER, thinking about their computer's performance unless there is a drastic change in it, please try to be realistic, the talk of "windows refugees", and windows being so terrible have been going on forever, and it's still silly, there's nothing so seriously wrong with windows, or mac, or linux, that it would cause a giant population-wide malaise over it.

People like us who populate various forums, are a minority, the vast population of computer users just let these things roll off their back like water off a duck.

******* is easy to maintain, takes about 30 seconds out of my day once a week or so, and I watch the task manager et al, I have simple utilities to check system performance, and the truth is only a meg or two of ram here and there, and a few megs of extra disk space, not even worth mentioning really in this day and age of terabyte hard-drives and gigs and gigs of ram.

Those people who DON'T or WON'T maintain their own windows computers, keep many of the geeks of the world employed, and fund their all-night Mountain-Dew-WoW-hacking lifestyle, would you take that away from them? lol!

[NCLI]

Haiku has way too few developers to catch up to Linux. Most OS developers I know would rather work on making Linux better than start over from the bottom with Haiku.

[Dustin2128]

...
well, your mileage may vary on any OS. But I agree, windows' failings do indeed keep us employed :D

[handy]

Haiku has way too few developers to catch up to Linux. Most OS developers I know would rather work on making Linux better than start over from the bottom with Haiku.

Haiku is a much simpler system than Linux. Being built for the desktop from the start; having just one GUI front end; not having been a non-GUI server system that has been adapted to the desktop helps make the Haiku development a quicker & simpler process.

Having said that, the core guys that have been building Haiku from the ground up have been working their buts off for years to get it to R1. I take my hat off to them, they have done a brilliant job.

I can't wait for R1, so I can see just what can be done with the brilliant Haiku file system that already incorporates powerful & simple to use database functions. Haiku & this file system look as though they will be great for home media centres.

[NightwishFan]

Ubuntu would only last a month if you broke it yourself. :) Well stuff does happen, but mostly thats true I suppose.

[Dragynn]

well, your mileage may vary on any OS. But I agree, windows' failings do indeed keep us employed :D

SEE!!! COMMON GROUND!!

Now be truthful, it's not really windows failings, your statement "your mileage may vary" contains the root of my argument, actual mileage has a LOT to do with the end-user and their level of skill/motivation/dedication to maintaining their product.

I am, among other things, a mechanic, and I can get 3, 4, even 5 hundred thousand miles out of a vehicle with just basic preventative maintenance, and that works across the board, from the crappiest Kia, to the most expensive Porsche. Let ANY kind of vehicle go too long without care, and it will fail.

Bonus: Not only does joe-user keep geeks in work, it keeps even dabblers busy repairing friends/relatives computers, which frequently means new available content, as in music....:guitar:

knowhatimean?
;);)

Best to ya!
~D

[Dragynn]

And on the thread subject, last night I downed the alpha2 of Haiku and tested the LiveCd version. Seems kinda cool, it was seriously fast to boot, that much is for sure, faster than any other OS I have. Much is incomplete, many of the menu entries didn't work yet, but it definitely looks interesting, and the blazing fast boot makes me seriously curious as to what it can do in the future. Seems worth watching for new development.

[Legendary_Bibo]

And on the thread subject, last night I downed the alpha2 of Haiku and tested the LiveCd version. Seems kinda cool, it was seriously fast to boot, that much is for sure, faster than any other OS I have. Much is incomplete, many of the menu entries didn't work yet, but it definitely looks interesting, and the blazing fast boot makes me seriously curious as to what it can do in the future. Seems worth watching for new development.

I tried it in Virtual Box and it was okay in speed, but there literally wasn't anything on it. Also for their coined "ease of use" that they're going for, I did not see that. Right clicking seemed to be the only thing to bring up a menu, and there were a lot of submenus to submenus. I didn't find anything worthwhile in it to be honest. I think they're just tooting their own horn.

[lykwydchykyn]

Haiku is a much simpler system than Linux. Being built for the desktop from the start; having just one GUI front end; not having been a non-GUI server system that has been adapted to the desktop helps make the Haiku development a quicker & simpler process.


That can be a double-edged sword, though. Flexibility and modularity are one of the things that has allowed Linux to stay relevant over the years and kept a lot of development muscle behind it. If you look at most of the big names who are doing FOSS development, their bread & butter is generally in servers, mobile, and embedded, not desktop OS.

Still, it's refreshing to see top-down development in a FOSS project, so hopefully some good things will happen for (and thus come out of) Haiku.

[VorpalBunny]

...

As for your complaint about improved security, I for one, like that my operating system asks before a random file is allowed to execute. Good move on microsoft's part.

...

Not sure if this thread has moved on (I didn't read further), but...

On a (for argument's sake) fresh install of Ubuntu, how many daemons, etc. are running? How many did you specifically ask to run? Have you actually looked at the source code for any of them?

Not saying you're point is wrong, but you're not completely right either. IMO, with the complexity of operating systems and applications these days one of the original reasons for open source (the user being able to control exactly what runs on their machine by looking at and/or modifying the source code) is impractical, and almost impossible. The repository system helps with this a great deal, but I think that if Linux ever had the quantity and quality of users that Windows has the likelihood is that viruses and such will be just as rampant due to Joe User doing something dumb.

In short, the OS only affects security for good or ill to a certain point.

[Dustin2128]

Not sure if this thread has moved on (I didn't read further), but...

On a (for argument's sake) fresh install of Ubuntu, how many daemons, etc. are running? How many did you specifically ask to run? Have you actually looked at the source code for any of them?

Not saying you're point is wrong, but you're not completely right either. IMO, with the complexity of operating systems and applications these days one of the original reasons for open source (the user being able to control exactly what runs on their machine by looking at and/or modifying the source code) is impractical, and almost impossible. The repository system helps with this a great deal, but I think that if Linux ever had the quantity and quality of users that Windows has the likelihood is that viruses and such will be just as rampant due to Joe User doing something dumb.

In short, the OS only affects security for good or ill to a certain point.
I'm talking about code that tries to execute with admin rights. Over-privileged code is much more a windows problem than a linux one and is arguably the reason why malware will trash the entire system- in order to do any software installs on a windows system, you need to be logged into root. On a linux system, 99% of the time, you're logged in as a limited user, but you can use sudo to temporarily give you root access. It now works that way for a limited user in windows- it will ask you for an administrator's password and not force you to relogin.

[cguy]

And on the thread subject, last night I downed the alpha2 of Haiku and tested the LiveCd version. Seems kinda cool, it was seriously fast to boot, that much is for sure, faster than any other OS I have. Much is incomplete, many of the menu entries didn't work yet, but it definitely looks interesting, and the blazing fast boot makes me seriously curious as to what it can do in the future. Seems worth watching for new development.

In the future it may have various daemons starting at boot, a prettier interface, which means more code and bigger sized binaries, more hardware detection, more solid code etc. etc. all of which will add to the boot times.
Before you know it, the 3 seconds will have turned into 10 or 15.



Is Linux slow to boot?
Start stripping it and you'll achieve boot times between literally 1 second and many minutes.

But we need functionality, so...

[Ahava591]

From the screenshots on their website, I must admit that I feel a sense of nostalgia when I look at it.
-I don't know why. I've never used a GUI like that before, but it just reminds me of the old days.


When they get this thing out of alpha, I might try it. Until it is fully developed, I'm not even going to think about actually installing it anywhere.

I'm glad there's something else out there; but I just don't know if this is going to be big. Or whether or not it should be big.

[VorpalBunny]

I'm talking about code that tries to execute with admin rights. Over-privileged code is much more a windows problem than a linux one and is arguably the reason why malware will trash the entire system- in order to do any software installs on a windows system, you need to be logged into root. On a linux system, 99% of the time, you're logged in as a limited user, but you can use sudo to temporarily give you root access. It now works that way for a limited user in windows- it will ask you for an administrator's password and not force you to relogin.

My point is, people will run into some mildly annoying thing that makes them 'sudo', then go online and find a script blaring "DISABLE UAC^B^B^B SUDO!!!". Point being, sure theoretically Linux or Haiku or FreeBSD is more secure, and easier to keep secure if you have a little bit of know-how, but non-technical people are going to find a way to shoot themselves in the foot either way. Which makes it hard to explain to them why they should switch.

Maybe I'm just too jaded. :(

[Dragynn]

I'm talking about code that tries to execute with admin rights. Over-privileged code is much more a windows problem than a linux one and is arguably the reason why malware will trash the entire system- in order to do any software installs on a windows system, you need to be logged into root. On a linux system, 99% of the time, you're logged in as a limited user, but you can use sudo to temporarily give you root access. It now works that way for a limited user in windows- it will ask you for an administrator's password and not force you to relogin.

Oh pooh. Same type of argument the Mac boys used to claim. Facts are still the same, windows is the target of viruses/malware/and-any-other-nastiness because 80% or more of the worlds computer users use it. plain and simple.

Linux isn't a target because it's only a little over 1 percent of all Os'es.

Macs aren't a target because it's like challenging a one-legged man to a butt-kicking contest, it just ain't fair nor sporting.

Buncha Linux distros out there that don't believe in having to type su or sudo all the dang time.

[orethrius]

Oh pooh. Same type of argument the Mac boys used to claim. Facts are still the same, windows is the target of viruses/malware/and-any-other-nastiness because 80% or more of the worlds computer users use it. plain and simple.

It's not that cut-and-dried. Sure, exposure is part of the security equation, and Windows has plenty of that. The part you're glossing over is that vulnerabilities must also exist (MSIE 6, IIS 6, NTFS filestreams). Given, those are all dated examples, but I believe they illustrate my point quite well.


Linux isn't a target because it's only a little over 1 percent of all Os'es.

That, and the multi-user concept is a touch more secure from the get-go. If you expect to denigrate Linux based on SUEs (Stupid User Experience), then you might as well target Windows and Mac OS while you're at it.


Macs aren't a target because it's like challenging a one-legged man to a butt-kicking contest, it just ain't fair nor sporting.

Yet, the only widely-publicized Mac vulnerability turned up in a DefCon challenge not so long ago. Sure hacking can be a sport, but if you don't expect to challenge some sort of preconception then you're better off playing some sort of physically-demanding sport.


Buncha Linux distros out there that don't believe in having to type su or sudo all the dang time.

I'd be interested in seeing their security records, if any exist. This is something that genuinely piques my interest; if exposure remains constant, and a critical preventative measure against root breaches is crippled, does an increase in vulnerabilities necessarily ensue?

[Ahava591]

Oh pooh. Same type of argument the Mac boys used to claim. Facts are still the same, windows is the target of viruses/malware/and-any-other-nastiness because 80% or more of the worlds computer users use it. plain and simple.

Linux isn't a target because it's only a little over 1 percent of all Os'es.

Macs aren't a target because it's like challenging a one-legged man to a butt-kicking contest, it just ain't fair nor sporting.

Buncha Linux distros out there that don't believe in having to type su or sudo all the dang time.

Or maybe Windows is the target for most malware because only Windows can be harmed by most malware...or you can just go on believing your delusion. It's not that Linux isn't vulnerable from a technological standpoint. There is a reason there are anti-malware scanners for Linux. It's also not that Windows runs on as many computers as you claim it does. It's simply that it is all but impossible for malware to harm a user if they take the time to secure their computers while running Linux/BSD. -Which takes, by my estimate, approximately 1/10 the time and effort to "secure," Windows. Of course, Windows cannot be secured in any sense of the term in the first place; and so all of this is moot. Also, if I am reading correctly, it seems as though you are seriously maligning the usage of sudo, etc. Which makes me wonder just how much you know about the subject... At any rate, why are you so hung up on this topic? Linux is more secure than Windows by default; Linux can be made even more secure than Windows in a relatively short period of time and with little effort; and with aware, educated users. End of story.

[Legendary_Bibo]

Or maybe Windows is the target for most malware because only Windows can be harmed by most malware...or you can just go on believing your delusion. It's not that Linux isn't vulnerable from a technological standpoint. There is a reason there are anti-malware scanners for Linux. It's also not that Windows runs on as many computers as you claim it does. It's simply that it is all but impossible for malware to harm a user if they take the time to secure their computers while running Linux/BSD. -Which takes, by my estimate, approximately 1/10 the time and effort to "secure," Windows. Of course, Windows cannot be secured in any sense of the term in the first place; and so all of this is moot. Also, if I am reading correctly, it seems as though you are seriously maligning the usage of sudo, etc. Which makes me wonder just how much you know about the subject... At any rate, why are you so hung up on this topic? Linux is more secure than Windows by default; Linux can be made even more secure than Windows in a relatively short period of time and with little effort; and with aware, educated users. End of story.

Judging from this guys' other posts, I'm starting to think he's a troll to be honest.

[orethrius]

...you can just go on believing your delusion...


Judging from this guys' other posts, I'm starting to think he's a troll to be honest.

Wow, harsh much? It's getting so a guy can't play Devil's Advocate anymore. ;)


Or maybe Windows is the target for most malware because only Windows can be harmed by most malware...

Windows can be harmed by most malware designed for Windows. I'm relatively certain that a well-placed sudo rm -rf coupled with a sufficiently inexperienced user could do as much damage (yes, I'm aware that you now have to manually override sudo with a flag to allow root changes; I'm also aware that the bypass is a flag, which can naturally be invoked in a script).


It's not that Linux isn't vulnerable from a technological standpoint. There is a reason there are anti-malware scanners for Linux.

Primarily for Windows malware, given; but chkrootkit and the like exist for a reason. Your thinking's copacetic so far.


It's also not that Windows runs on as many computers as you claim it does.

Agreed. 73% of all statistics are made-up on-the-spot. ;)


It's simply that it is all but impossible for malware to harm a user if they take the time to secure their computers while running Linux/BSD.

You're falsely assuming two things, which would allow as much damage on Windows, if not more.
1. The end-user is security savvy.
2. The end-user only cares about the core system.

A user's personal files can still be damaged by a rogue userspace process, and the average client won't care about the core OS if their data isn't secure.


Of course, Windows cannot be secured in any sense of the term in the first place; and so all of this is moot.

That's bull. Windows can actually be secured quite well; the problem is that the average user doesn't possess adequate skills to patch the plethora of holes and poorly-coded software that exist for that system. The *nix approach takes the stance that a single security model should be stringently adhered to whenever possible, not simply "when it's convenient."


Also, if I am reading correctly, it seems as though you are seriously maligning the usage of sudo, etc. Which makes me wonder just how much you know about the subject...

sudo, like any process that temporarily elevates user privileges, is a poor substitute for not having userspace applications directly invoke protected system processes in the first place. However, it's infinitely better than constantly running as a root user, thereby jeopardizing the entirety of your system's security.


At any rate, why are you so hung up on this topic? Linux is more secure than Windows by default; Linux can be made even more secure than Windows in a relatively short period of time and with little effort; and with aware, educated users. End of story.

I wouldn't want to presume here, but I imagine his point is that a great deal of exploits can be chalked up to uneducated users, so holding up Linux as being secure when users are properly educated is something of a double standard. The simplest point to be made here is that Linux's core system is more secure by default than anything based on an NT kernel. The problem, natch, is that not a lot of "independent" studies back either claim, and a great deal of those tend to trace their roots to corporate think-tanks with a vested interest in one side or the other.

[Ahava591]

I realize that anti-malware scanners for Linux are generally looking for Windows malware; I didn't feel the need to add that in as I thought it was obvious. Still, I consider it a problem to have Linux users contributing to the malware problem by not scanning for viruses, etc. that might not be designed for them, might not even hurt them, but which they might be able to pass to a Windows user.


As for the statistics, yes, I know it's almost invariably BS. The fact is that I have never actually seen, with my own eyes, a server running anything but Linux or BSD. I am friends with a fellow who runs a Windows server, but one box I've heard about out of what...
Even my school has the (admittedly token) Ubuntu running in dual-boot for computer networking students. A public college...using Linux...; come on, since when is that not something to think about?

They didn't do it for kicks, none of the computer networking teachers like Ubuntu, none of them have said anything good about Linux to me, one of my teachers literally wrote the book, (the textbook,) and is also one of the maintenance guys for the server rooms for the networking classes and the campus in addition to teaching.
--There has been one, exactly one, lab dealing with Linux in my time there. It took about five minutes and involved ifconfig to obtain your IP address...

So, they must have Ubuntu for a reason, right? The teachers don't like it, the curriculum focuses almost entirely, both in course work and in the courses offered, on Windows, the school gets a hugely reduced-cost Windows license, etc.
I believe that they have chosen to start using Ubuntu in the year 2010, if only in dual-boot, if only with a few, busy-work assignments, because they have recognized that Linux plays a huge part in the world and its' part will continue to grow.



I agree that my arguments depend on skilled users, or even just concerned users with access to help. I realize that my arguments fail, break, don't work, are not valid, if a user does not care about their privacy and/or security.
That does not excuse complacency; I still feel that my arguments should have been made.

I also still believe that Linux is inherently more secure than Windows. I do not believe, as orethrius apparently does, that Windows can be made secure. If he/she would like to be more specific in how Windows can be secured as he/she suggests, then I will gladly read any thread he makes about the topic and ask questions pertaining to the topic with as much civility as I can manage.


I resent being called a troll. I'm not going to push the subject, though.


I'm sorry for helping to derail the thread; 'won't happen again, ;)

[Dragynn]

Yet, the only widely-publicized Mac vulnerability turned up in a DefCon challenge not so long ago. Sure hacking can be a sport, but if you don't expect to challenge some sort of preconception then you're better off playing some sort of physically-demanding sport.



Oh please, every year they have a challenge, and every year the Mac gets hacked within a couple of minutes, ******* usually takes a couple of days, and linux usually makes it out unscathed, why? Because Mac is crap, ******* is a target (albeit an active tough target) and Linux has turned into one of those societal holy grails like single mothers, you aren't allowed to say anything bad about it or do anything to prove that it's total bulls**t.

******* has said that IE9 won't work in XP, how long do you think it will take before there is a hack? 24 hours? less?

And with regard to physically demanding sports, your last comment sounded pretty much like sour-grapes from a lazy-body.

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
~Robert Heinlein

I can do all the above, can you?

[NightwishFan]

I also like the concept of "general purpose os". It is why I stick to Ubuntu and especially Debian.

I know Haiku is designed for end user work though they may get more ambitious as the years go. It runs pretty nicely already.

[baddog144]

Haiku has as much of a chance of destroying Linux as Ubuntu does of destroying Windows.
That's giving Haiku way too much credit.

[smellyman]

That's giving Haiku way too much credit.

agreed. I am curious to see how it ends up becuase I am a fan of os's and trying just about anything, but it has a long ways to go.

[kingrobdun]

Haiku has the same chance as Aros.

[NCLI]

Haiku is a much simpler system than Linux. Being built for the desktop from the start; having just one GUI front end; not having been a non-GUI server system that has been adapted to the desktop helps make the Haiku development a quicker & simpler process.

Having said that, the core guys that have been building Haiku from the ground up have been working their buts off for years to get it to R1. I take my hat off to them, they have done a brilliant job.

I can't wait for R1, so I can see just what can be done with the brilliant Haiku file system that already incorporates powerful & simple to use database functions. Haiku & this file system look as though they will be great for home media centres.
I also respect their efforts, but doubt they can catch up, even if they do their best. There's simply not enough of them.

[handy]

I also respect their efforts, but doubt they can catch up, even if they do their best. There's simply not enough of them.

Hopefully the product will continue to attract support.

Donations from the strong community have enabled them to pay dev's to make things move along quicker.

As usual, time will tell.

[Giant Speck]

That's giving Haiku way too much credit.
It's only giving Haiku way too much credit if you already give Ubuntu too much credit as it is.

[NightwishFan]

Go Haiku! Win some users eh?

[samalex]

Haiku is one of those pet projects for the folks who work on it, and though it's awesome to think that some day it could be a dominant OS, personally I think they should move more towards a Linux kernel with a BeOS compatibility layer plus a BeOS-style windows manager to give it that custom BeOS feel. This way it could still work with BeOS applications but you could still run Linux-based apps on it as well.

Sam

[orethrius]

First and foremost, I love that there's genuine discussion taking place here. I don't wish to do anything to discourage that.

Now, that being said, Ahava591: we're in agreement, for the most part. My primary concern is that more people than ever are parroting back the line that "Linux is more secure than Windows" without properly qualifying that statement. If we're referring to the kernel itself, this has repeatedly been proven true. If we're referring to the security model, this is obviously true. If we're referring to the larger whole that encompasses repositories, tarball builds, and sourceless binaries? I remain unconvinced that those, taken as a whole, are always 100% secure, compared to their Windows equivalents. Naturally, I don't believe that Windows packages are secure by their very nature, either; such thinking is largely fallacy. The simple point I'm trying to make is that "no current vulnerabilities" != "secure by any definition". For future reference, that's roughly the same logic that Microsoft used to push people around before decent companies joined the BSA; <sarcasm> of course, if nobody can read the source, who can find vulnerabilities? </sarcasm> It's just not sound logic to believe that any system online is ever 100% secure; and I didn't mean to imply that Windows is necessarily more secure than Linux. ;)

Oh, and sudo IS a weak link. For that matter, so is UAC and anything like it.

As for the "troll" remark, I was actually defending Dragynn for a change. Judging by his reaction, I shan't make that mistake again.

Dragynn: You've said nothing to refute my initial statement. You then used Lazarus to form an ad hominem attack over a simple misunderstanding. For refusing to acknowledge individual free will, may you share in his feelings for his Adopted Daughter.

[Dustin2128]

Oh pooh. Same type of argument the Mac boys used to claim. Facts are still the same, windows is the target of viruses/malware/and-any-other-nastiness because 80% or more of the worlds computer users use it. plain and simple.

Linux isn't a target because it's only a little over 1 percent of all Os'es.

Macs aren't a target because it's like challenging a one-legged man to a butt-kicking contest, it just ain't fair nor sporting.

Buncha Linux distros out there that don't believe in having to type su or sudo all the dang time.
There is actually a growing amount of malware for apple computers. All that stuff aside,
Foolproof systems do not take into account the ingenuity of fools.

[Legendary_Bibo]

I'm still trying to figure out what's so great about Haiku and what the hype is all about. It booted fast in Virtualbox, but was slow to run. I'll check with it every so often.

[NightwishFan]

It seems good for media, it works great here. Also the slowness is expected as it uses some form of indexing that runs even on the live cd. Will be fixed probably in the next alpha/rc etc.

It does boot fast. :)

[renkinjutsu]

I'm still trying to figure out what's so great about Haiku and what the hype is all about. It booted fast in Virtualbox, but was slow to run. I'll check with it every so often.

Why are you judging the speed based on a virtual machine?
You're better off downloading the liveUSB image and booting off of that. It runs faster than Usain Bolt.

[RiceMonster]

Edit: never mind, misread.

[Dustin2128]

I'm still trying to figure out what's so great about Haiku and what the hype is all about. It booted fast in Virtualbox, but was slow to run. I'll check with it every so often.
it's based on BeOS, one of the best proprietary OSes that ever existed.

[CraigPaleo]

I'm still trying to figure out what's so great about Haiku and what the hype is all about. It booted fast in Virtualbox, but was slow to run. I'll check with it every so often.

Well, for most people it's fast but it also lacks features. Put a 15 year-old OS on modern hardware and it'll fly. Once it's feature-filled though, it's bound to slow down.

There was a lot of hoopla about the Be file system when I first heard about it (mid 90's ?) but I can't find much that says it's any better than other modern file systems. I haven't really looked that hard though.

I had a Mac with system 7.6 or 8... when BeOS started shipping in Mac Magazine CDs. I was amazed at its speed as well as how many CPU-intensive (for then) demos I could run all at one time.

I do wonder what OS X would be like today if Apple had bought Be instead of NeXt. Personally, I believe Apple went with NeXT because of:

1. Steve Jobs
2. UNIX-based NeXTstep was an inroad to the server market.

[t0p]

I have never tried Haiku - it's been in Alpha since the dawn of time ("Alpha 2" now, apparently) and I don't like messing with Alpha software that can't actually do anything. It's the Duke Nukem Forever of the OS world (Duke Nukem Forever is going to be released in 2011 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Nukem_Forever) apparently, heh).

Anyway, I haven't tried Haiku because, although it's "blisteringly fast" or whatever, it doesn't do anything. How many apps have been written for Haiku?

Sorry, back to the point: I haven't tried Haiku, so I don't know if, in 5 years' time it will have the capability to murder other OSes. Tell you what though, if Duke Nukem Forever is written to run on Haiku, maybe it'll be the OS of 2015.

[beetleman64]

As much as I like Haiku, I suspect it will suffer from the same problems as BeOS. To be honest, any new OS nowadays will have to be UNIX based, as that's where most of the apps are outside of Windows. Also, Microsoft will be all too keen to squash it if it gets too big.

5 years is very optimistic, but I suspect we will have a better idea of how things are going. If they have a preview of R2 by then I'll be impressed, but 7-10 years is probably more realistic for them to make any inroads (IF they make any inroads, that is). I have been wrong in the past, though, here's the guy who predicted OpenSolaris would give Linux a good run for its money and become the new champion of open source...

[afroman10496]

...I have been wrong in the past, though, here's the guy who predicted OpenSolaris would give Linux a good run for its money and become the new champion of open source...

Hey... what?:(

[oobuntoo]

BeOS--and now Haiku--was always the OS of the future. And always will be.

No kidding. It will be 10 more years into the future before it's ready for eveyday use.

Haiku: the Duke-Nukem-Forever OS.

[lykwydchykyn]

Haiku: the Duke-Nukem-Forever OS.

C'mon now, don't take HURD's title away and give it to some other OS.

[JDShu]

C'mon now, don't take HURD's title away and give it to some other OS.

Duke Nukem Forever may actually have a better chance than HURD.

[baddog144]

Duke Nukem Forever may actually have a better chance than HURD.

At being adopted as a mainstream OS? That'd be rather interesting.

[pwnst*r]

Haiku: the Duke-Nukem-Forever OS.

Lol, spot on.