I'm wondering if I made the right choice...

[Legendary_Bibo]

When going into college I decided to go for Bioengineering because I wanted to go into genetic engineering, and it was a career move I decided on when I was 13. However, over this past year I've worked as a math tutor, and I've even served as a mentor for the head of the math department. A mentor according to the college I go to is kind of like a teachers assistant except for that while helping students out the professor will teach me techniques to help teach people which I applied to tutoring, and it has worked wonders! I decided that perhaps after engineering for a bit I would go into teaching. Now, I'm thinking about just going for teaching math altogether. I mostly want to teach at a college which means when I get my bachelors (Secondary Education in Mathematics) I'll be teaching at a highschool for a bit (if I do, I really wish the only job I get isn't at my old highschool :) ). The thing is my dad seems disappointedish considering how if I stuck to Bioengineering then my sister, my brother, and I would have all been in medical careers (sister a nurse, brother a pharmacist). His reason is that I wouldn't be living a comfortable life because teachers don't make that much where I live, but I thought college professors made a decent living. I personally like the feeling I get from helping people and watching their faces glow when they're so happy when they discover how simple something like Calculus can be. I don't know if I would enjoy sitting in a lab all day, never getting to quite work on that cure for Cancer I had dreams of finding one day.

[Khakilang]

I came across about a saying that goes like this, "If you enjoy what you do, you don't have to work for the rest of your life". Hope thats help.

[Legendary_Bibo]

I came across about a saying that goes like this, "If you enjoy what you do, you don't have to work for the rest of your life". Hope thats help.
Surprisingly, yes this did help. It helped amazingly well, and it really did. I think it was the advice I needed. Thanks! :D

[pwnst*r]

As nice as it is to please your parents with a career decision, you're ultimately going to do best at what you like to do. Personally, I have more respect for teachers than I do for doctors.

Keep at it.

[Khakilang]

You're welcome!

[JDShu]

As nice as it is to please your parents with a career decision, you're ultimately going to do best at what you like to do. Personally, I have more respect for teachers than I do for doctors.

Keep at it.

I do too.

A couple of points:

College Professors do make a very comfortable living, and they get to have long breaks too. Usually they need to make sure they keep producing research however. Of course, this depends on the school they teach at.

Math is VERY hard. IMO its the hardest thing you can study because such a large part of it is talent. Especially since...

If you want to be a college professor, you'll probably need a PhD. PhDs are difficult... Math PhDs are especially difficult. Of course if your interest is more teaching mathematics at non brand name colleges as opposed to mathematical research, you don't need to go to the most competitive programs - but even then, that just means that you don't need to be a genius.

Never try to please your parents to the exclusion of your own interests. That rarely leads to a good outcome.

[Legendary_Bibo]

I do too.

A couple of points:

College Professors do make a very comfortable living, and they get to have long breaks too. Usually they need to make sure they keep producing research however. Of course, this depends on the school they teach at.

Math is VERY hard. IMO its the hardest thing you can study because such a large part of it is talent. Especially since...

If you want to be a college professor, you'll probably need a PhD. PhDs are difficult... Math PhDs are especially difficult. Of course if your interest is more teaching mathematics at non brand name colleges as opposed to mathematical research, you don't need to go to the most competitive programs - but even then, that just means that you don't need to be a genius.

Never try to please your parents to the exclusion of your own interests. That rarely leads to a good outcome.

Yeah I worried about having to do research, but I've been known to discuss some of my mathematical theories with professors (concepts, and sometimes formulas/equations, but I was told not to be discouraged when they were disproved) which turned out I would learn in higher level classes. They think I'll do just fine.

[Paqman]

Talk to your university. The science courses you've done already might count as a certain amount of credit if you switch to a maths degree (or at least, it tends to work the other way around). Knowing how much additional time and money changing your course involves will help inform your decision.

I'd agree that your parents' wishes shouldn't be a huge factor in your decision. It's your career, and what you'll be doing all day every day, so it's important to be doing something you want to do.

At the end of the day your parents want you to be happy, and if you'll be happier changing your career path, then you should.

[theraje]

Have you considered working toward a Ph.D.? Reason I ask is because of your interest in teaching, and if you stay in college, you could work towards that in your off-time. With a Ph.D., you get such a broad spectrum of education that you could go down any of several career paths. In fact, a lot of people who get a Ph.D. in one field often find themselves in a field completely different from the field in which they majored.

In the end, it's up to you what you choose. Don't let your parents' possible disappointment deter you. They run your life until you're a certain age, and have reached a certain point of maturity, and then they send you off into the world to make your own destiny.

Besides, even doctors need educators. ;)

[Ahava591]

"Teaching; the profession that creates all others."

Go for it. We need more people like you in education here in Arizona.

[kamaboko]

My brother is a college prof, and I have several friends that teach college courses, too.

You need to hear the grim reality. First, generally speaking, prof's don't make very much money. For instance, none of my friends teaching at that level (in state universities/colleges) with PhD's make over $45K/year. My brother graduated from a top five US university with a PhD in his specialty; political science. If you're going to go this route, be prepared to be w/in the top 10% of your field and walk on water if you want a job. Moreover, it's about pedigree...where did you get your degree b/c all are not the same. That is unless you want to work for real peanuts at the community college level. Second, I hope you enjoy departmental politics. Third, tenure at most universities is out the door these days. There's such a glut of professors that it no longer makes sense to offer lifetime employment. Fourth, on-line courses are the future. This in turn means less money for the prof, and less student interaction.

If I were you I would continue with the bioengineering degree. If you want to teach math, you can always do it. There are plenty of community college instructors with math intense degrees teaching math. I have a MA and was encouraged to get a PhD and teach, but after talking with so many people who teach at the college level, I'm glad I didn't.

[forrestcupp]

Fourth, on-line courses are the future. This in turn means less money for the prof, and less student interaction.

I don't believe online courses are the future. It is very handy for working adults, but I don't think it will ever become the general norm for every group. Like you said, all degrees are not equal. I think online degrees are looked upon differently. Plus, a very large part of what is learned is from interaction, campus life, and the experience of having to learn to be on your own while still being somewhat sheltered. These are things that can't ever be learned from sitting in front of a computer in mom and dad's house.

Plus there's still the impracticality of labs.

[JDShu]

Second, I hope you enjoy departmental politics.


I have to call this one out: colleges aren't special in terms of workplace politics.

[cloyd]

I don't know exactly what to tell you, but I can think of a few things to tell you. At 60, I've learned that there are politics in every field of endeavor. I've worked in retail management, for a large agribusiness company, and am now clergy. Politics are everywhere, some places more than others. In some areas, politics are worse and harder to stay out of. In most places, I sought to stay out of them. Yet, in some fields they are inescapable. If you are good at politics, it is great asset in any field.

Early on, I wanted to by a physician. In high school, I decided I liked psychology better. That didn't work out. However, the interests that surfaced in psychology are very much present as clergy. It doesn't pay much (it can if you have a mega-church, but I don't care for mega-churches). Retail was never a match, and agri-business was "ok". This fits. (I've never lost an interest in science and technology, but rather than making me feel like I made the wrong choice, it has made life richer.)

In essence, go with what you enjoy, but recognize that you may modify your plans as you go along, and if you want lots of money, you may have to do something you don't enjoy as much.

[kamaboko]

I don't believe online courses are the future. It is very handy for working adults, but I don't think it will ever become the general norm for every group. Like you said, all degrees are not equal. I think online degrees are looked upon differently. Plus, a very large part of what is learned is from interaction, campus life, and the experience of having to learn to be on your own while still being somewhat sheltered. These are things that can't ever be learned from sitting in front of a computer in mom and dad's house.

Plus there's still the impracticality of labs.

Departmental budgeting is a constant on-going battle. I hear this every quarter from my friends who teach, as well as my brother. Roughly one in six college students took an on-line course back in 2006. That's about 3.2 million students, and it is increasing. This is attractive to colleges/universities b/c it decreases campus congestion, reduces overhead, allows them to hit more students with less teachers (e.g., 45 on-line students rather than 30 in a room designed to only accommodate 30), and makes scheduling much easier. It's the trend. Embrace it.

As for where one goes, I was speaking specifically about earning a PhD. For instance, if one wants to teach East Asian History, they'll have to go to say University of Chicago, Harvard, or Stanford. If they got the same PhD at perhaps University of Arkansas (no rub against them), they've got a snowballs chance in hell of getting hired at a university. I know, I was on a review committee when my school was looking for a new f/t instructor. My school wouldn't consider any candidates unless they came from the top tier schools I listed. The reason? The word 'pedigree' was specifically used.

[kamaboko]

I have to call this one out: colleges aren't special in terms of workplace politics.

And I agree. I will say it's more intense and requires much more attention though. For example, let's say you're part of the political science department. There are three professors and one dept chair. You got wind that two classes will be dropped the following quarter, but the teaching assignments hadn't been handed out yet. Well, to make sure you can make your mortgage payment, you're going to have start jockeying for position with the dept chair to make sure you get a full class load. I hear this all the time from my friends. It's tedious.

[MasterNetra]

Indeed do what you want to. Though you might want to go through with the Bioengineering as it is currently a bad time to be a teacher with so many being laid off. You might want to stick with bioengineering until things in that arena get better. Of course just because you would be in Bioengineering doesn't mean you can't teach math on the side.

[TBABill]

Follow your heart. Doing what someone else wants you to do will possibly lead to your frustration versus their pride. Parents should be proud of the level of success of their children, which to me means their character, their moral values, their motivation and the spirit with which they lead their life, not the amount of income you can bring into the home. Sure, you need to earn enough to be self sufficient in the lifestyle you choose to live, but to join the medical or any other community just to have your parent(s) perceive a level of success may not lead to your ultimate happiness.

Be yourself. Be true to you and those who love you will value your decisions if they are made with care and maturity. Who cares if you make $45k or $145k? If you live a decent lifestyle on it, the amount is meaningless. You can be happy on either and one is not more "successful" than the other. One can be a mean spirited person with poor character traits while the other is a decent person who lives to be the best they can be...does it matter which income level they are at?

I have had low paying jobs (part time and military active duty) and I have had very good paying jobs. The person I am did not change and that's the key. Hopefully that makes sense....just be you, work hard and do your best. Any parent who loves his child would be filled with joy to see you live that way, regardless of what your degree says on the wall or what your paycheck says.

[forrestcupp]

It's the trend. Embrace it.
Well, you're probably right that it's the trend, but it's a bad trend. I guess we could fork this thread into a discussion about population control, but then the thread would get closed. :D


And I agree. I will say it's more intense and requires much more attention though. For example, let's say you're part of the political science department. There are three professors and one dept chair. You got wind that two classes will be dropped the following quarter, but the teaching assignments hadn't been handed out yet. Well, to make sure you can make your mortgage payment, you're going to have start jockeying for position with the dept chair to make sure you get a full class load. I hear this all the time from my friends. It's tedious.
It's exactly like that in most companies. The university is just what you're familiar with.

[kamaboko]

Well, you're probably right that it's the trend, but it's a bad trend. I guess we could fork this thread into a discussion about population control, but then the thread would get closed. :D


It's exactly like that in most companies. The university is just what you're familiar with.

I've been through the academic grind for three complete 'tours' as I sometime call them. I love on-line classes. Give me the book, tell me the test date, and I'll show up knowing the material. I don't care to hear instructors read from power point presentations, or listen to limitless mindless questions from students. I love not having to drive into campus and fight for parking. It's the future.

I've worked in a number of industries (IT, electronic warfare, accounting (hated it), and even lectured, among others), so I have a good idea of how the politics work. Nothing is quite like academia. I told my brother the world of academics is the last place you'll find common sense. After teaching for the past five years he has come to agree with me.

[bouncingwilf]

If it helps I'll bore you with a little story that happened to me many, many years ago (LBJ was the US president and bitter was 1s 8d a pint - a proper pint - not the discounted US pint! ) . At that time I was an undergraduate chemist but the course required a good understanding of maths so maths we did. Now for people like me with (used to have) very good memories, chemistry was an easy and interesting option, maths on the other hand was a bit of a drudge and so didn't really get much attention consequently grades were usually only "just sufficient" so you can image my surprise when the maths lecturer suggested I switch to a pure maths course. I tried to reject this silly notion out of hand but she ( the lecturer) led me up to the college library and pointed out the size of the section devoted to chemical abstracts ( effectively 2 large rooms which were just indexes to find where the real stuff was) and told me there was no way I could ever understand anything but the tiniest scrap of all chemical knowledge but the pointed to a short shelf of maths books and said read them and you'll know 90% of all maths! To cut a long story short, I became a chemist and enjoyed it but would you believe it, I spent the last 20 years of my career using mathematics to crack some of the secrets of the chemistry! Given my time again, I'm not sure whether I would change my choice but I would certainly give it much more serious consideration. I think it's fair to say that much of todays science, be it quantum chemistry or gene sequencing is largely mathematical. On the basis that good mathematicians are a relative rarity and always in demand I'd say think long and hard before you say no.

Bouncingwilf

[Legendary_Bibo]

Well in Arizona, education if horrible. When I was in highschool they were laying off teachers, but they were getting rid of teachers that just sucked. I mean they were the type of teachers that even in AP classes would just have students watch movies, or they had no plan, but instead threw out A's to everyone. There's a short supply of math and science teachers, and so the schools in Arizona can do nothing but accept the crappy teachers they're given.

Well my game plan is like this:

1. Get Bachelors
2. Teach at a highschool, and work on MA
3. Once MA is obtained, teach at a community college.
4. While teaching at a CC, work for PhD.

I think I would feel comfortable working at a community college the most. I can feel connected with the students, and the students would actually want to learn. The professors with PhDs at the community college I go to now used to teach at the state universities, and at some of the ivy league schools, and they've told me that at a university you don't feel like you're making a difference. It's like you're spouting off as much as you know and hope the students catch on to it.

Also, about the Bioengineering degree. The only university that's close by that offers the degree changes the courses regularly. I've talked to people that went for it, and they told me that after five years they had probably half the credits they needed for it just because the university changes the courses you need all the time. So the science courses I've taken so far that no longer would count towards it can be used as the electives I would need to take to be a teacher. I do plan on furthering my knowledge on physics though even though it's not required just because it goes hand in hand with calculus.

On the income thing, $40K is comfortable living for me actually. That gives me enough to have a car, have a home, food, clothing, and an occasional vacation, or to even splurge on a new toy. My parents didn't go to college and make a few grand less than that each, and we have a comfortable living. They however had to become office drones who don't seem entirely happy with their jobs.