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View Full Version : GUI principles: Main Menubar (OS X) VS Window Menubars(LInux, MS)



finny388
September 14th, 2010, 04:19 AM
This is not an Apple vs MS vs Canonical discussion at all.

Strictly your GUI preference.

Please vote and offer your reasons.

I much prefer each window owning its own menubar (if it wants/needs one). here are the pros and cons I can think of with my biases included:

Main Menubar
Pros

It is always in the same place (whatever)
If very little, it uses less screen space (whatever)

Cons

The active window may not be raised so the main menubar is not always corresponding to what windows are on the screen


Window Menubars
Pros

A window doesn't have to be in focus for a menu item to be clicked
A window isn't forced to have a standard menu

Cons

Takes up more space? (whatever)

doorknob60
September 14th, 2010, 04:30 AM
Crap I clicked the wrong one *facepalm* Meant to click each Window has its own like Win and Lin, but I clicked the Mac one in the poll. I'm just more used to it that way, and there's nothing wrong with it.

Islington
September 14th, 2010, 04:34 AM
on a small screen, uni menubar.

NCLI
September 14th, 2010, 04:48 AM
For netbooks and other small-screen devices: Unibar.
For unmaximised windows on big screens: Winbar
For maximised windows on big screens: Unibar

finny388
September 14th, 2010, 04:52 AM
For netbooks and other small-screen devices: Unibar.
For unmaximised windows on big screens: Winbar
For maximised windows on big screens: Unibar

Hard to argue with that. But in the case of maxxed windows on big screens, I don't see much of a difference.

3rdalbum
September 14th, 2010, 05:20 AM
Nobody mention Fitt or his Law.

murderslastcrow
September 14th, 2010, 05:55 AM
I actually noticed Kubuntu comes with a main menubar that you can place anywhere. I thought it was pretty nifty, and after opening a few applications it was quite nice to see things even, rather than a bunch of words on the upper left of the window. You see, I hate words- I hardly ever need them on windows. It's like putting the word 'car' and something that's obviously a car. After you know what it is, you really don't need the label.

Of course, I love the self-glorification of programs sometimes, too. It's not always a bad thing to stand out, even in a unified GUI. But, in the end, I switched back to the window menubars. I think it was just to remind me that those options exist, as I won't always take a glance to wherever I've put that menu. Also, I'm not sure if Gnome applications adopt the KDE menubar settings, so it might not work with everything. Then again, this is a fairly broad assumption- I haven't tried it.

To be honest, at least in KDE 4, the GUI looks so nice that having that menu there doesn't really incite discomfort. I don't see either way as superior, except that in KDE 4, taking that menu out doesn't seem to shorten the windows all that much compared to how much room the menu might take.

I think on a netbook, with Unity, it's an excellent idea, as it optimizes screen real estate.

I think that on a Mac, where by default the dock gets in the way with its huge buttons and the window decorations are a bit too self-involved, it's not saving you any space. It's only there for the sake of consistency, but it's the same idea with the window approach- you can just view several at a time, which may be considered as clutter.

So really, there are varied reasons why either approach would be beneficial in a variety of situations. I'm grateful you brought this up as a GUI choice, not a Windows vs. OS X discussion. Too often it devolves into that kind of garbage.

spupy
September 14th, 2010, 07:36 AM
I actually noticed Kubuntu comes with a main menubar that you can place anywhere. I thought it was pretty nifty, and after opening a few applications it was quite nice to see things even, rather than a bunch of words on the upper left of the window.

You mean Kubuntu has unified menu-bar? In KDE 4? I don't have such thing here on Arch with KDE 4.5. :( Is it some plasmoid? Please tell me.

formaldehyde_spoon
September 14th, 2010, 08:58 AM
Mac style. You can't beat having a target with infinite height.

Bachstelze
September 14th, 2010, 09:09 AM
Don't care. Both are fine to me. Netbooks are so 2008.

Ctrl-Alt-F1
September 14th, 2010, 09:46 AM
Prefer the Windows Style bar. I can't stand the Mac style menu bar. However I prefer a dock for windows navigation as opposed to the Windows way. Solution: Gnome Menu bar (1) with Avant-Window-Navigator.

DoubleClicker
September 14th, 2010, 10:00 AM
I think that on a Mac, where by default the dock gets in the way with its huge buttons and the window decorations are a bit too self-involved, it's not saving you any space. It's only there for the sake of consistency, but it's the same idea with the window approach- you can just view several at a time, which may be considered as clutter.

The default Dock placement with big icons, is just for show. Everyone I know who owns a Mac shrinks the icons on the dock and either enables autohiding, or (like me) moves the dock to be vertical on the right side ( I don't know why no one i know puts it on the left). So the mac dock never gets in the way for most mac users.

I do agree with you that Mac users tend to value consistency (or at least I do), but that consistency translates to getting work done. I've used gnome, both with a global menu bar, and with local menu bars, with the global menu bar, I move my mouse, and select a menu item, automatically, without thinking about it. With local menu bars, I need to stop for a few seconds, and pay attention to what i'm doing.

julio_cortez
September 14th, 2010, 12:29 PM
Window Menubars
A window doesn't have to be in focus for a menu item to be clicked
This. I'd like every window to have its menubar for a matter of comfort. A single bar " la OSX" kind of defeats my idea of "ease of use", though it's aesthetically way better to see..

I'd feel "limited" if I had to see/use only a bar at a time, and constantly looking for the window I need in the dock to give it focus then use the proper menu.

finny388
September 17th, 2010, 10:48 PM
Nobody mention Fitt or his Law.

Nobody did or nobody should?

qalimas
September 18th, 2010, 12:12 AM
This is not an Apple vs MS vs Canonical discussion at all.

Strictly your GUI preference.

Please vote and offer your reasons.

I much prefer each window owning its own menubar (if it wants/needs one). here are the pros and cons I can think of with my biases included:

Main Menubar
Pros

It is always in the same place (whatever)
If very little, it uses less screen space (whatever)

Cons

The active window may not be raised so the main menubar is not always corresponding to what windows are on the screen


Window Menubars
Pros

A window doesn't have to be in focus for a menu item to be clicked
A window isn't forced to have a standard menu

Cons

Takes up more space? (whatever)


Why, under anything for a single bar, or against multiple bars, do you find it necessary to remark 'whatever'?

I prefer a single bar. It enabled applications to look better with a nicely styled... style in KDE without having to worry about making the file menu pretty. I use both (Mac and Linux at work, Mac at home) and find neither more nor less productive than the other; it is all in appearance.

finny388
September 21st, 2010, 09:06 PM
Why, under anything for a single bar, or against multiple bars, do you find it necessary to remark 'whatever'?

I prefer a single bar. It enabled applications to look better with a nicely styled... style in KDE without having to worry about making the file menu pretty. I use both (Mac and Linux at work, Mac at home) and find neither more nor less productive than the other; it is all in appearance.

I'm just saying I don't care about the space it saves. I care about the functionality and appearance of each window having its own menu.

But that is what I am used to. To each their own! :D

ve4cib
September 21st, 2010, 11:41 PM
A few months back (getting close to a year now, I suppose) I installed the global-menu panel applet for Gnome, and I've grown to quite like it. I use a 1280x800 monitor on my laptop, so saving every available pixel of vertical space is really important to me, and a global menu does exactly that. It took some getting used to, but having been using it non-stop for close to a year I have to admit I really like it.

I know someone said not to mention Fitts nor his law, but I've got to; in addition to saving some vertical real-estate the global menu lets me be lazier with my mousing to hit a menu. Just throw the mouse to the top of the screen an *poof* done. No precision required, which is especially good on a laptop since I am terribly inaccurate with trackpads.

kaldor
September 21st, 2010, 11:52 PM
I prefer the global menubar. It's something I loved when I started using OS X, and I recently started using the GNOME Globalmenu applet. Too bad openoffice and firefox are not supported yet, though.

But yes; less clutter, less words filling up a window. It becomes especially useful when you have a load of windows open... real estate for one.

Tibuda
September 22nd, 2010, 01:36 AM
I prefer no menubar.

CraigPaleo
September 22nd, 2010, 02:08 AM
You mean Kubuntu has unified menu-bar? In KDE 4? I don't have such thing here on Arch with KDE 4.5. :( Is it some plasmoid? Please tell me.

Go to system settings, then workspace. Change workspace type to Netbook.

http://agateau.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/appmenu-dolphin-button1.png


I don't like global menus because I have a large monitor and it's just too much traveling to do bringing a window into focus and then going all the way back up to the menu.

chris200x9
September 22nd, 2010, 04:46 AM
Don't care. Both are fine to me. Netbooks are so 2008.

I'm so 3008, You so 2000 and late

CraigPaleo
September 22nd, 2010, 07:25 PM
Wow! I guess my tower is so '90s then! :P

Roasted
September 22nd, 2010, 07:49 PM
I have a Mac laptop, and quite honestly that single menu bar thing rages me to no end. The only thing that came from Apple, GUI wise, that I thought was semi interesting was the dock, but it was missing a lot and left a lot to be desired. Then leave it to AWN, Docky, and various other docks on the Linux and even some docks on the Windows platform to go above and beyond and perfect the dock to what the Mac dock lacks.

samwyse
September 23rd, 2010, 12:49 AM
Single menubar sucks for all the reasons mentioned.

smellyman
September 23rd, 2010, 01:17 AM
Single menubar sucks for all the reasons mentioned.

no they rock