Please forgive me, but.........a little rant

[anewguy]

Several of my friends and I have noticed over the past few months a large increase in the number of people posting for help on the beginners forum, then rejecting everything that is said to them, say they know better, and just argue instead of trying to solve their problem. Some of my friends have just quit coming back to the forum except on very rare occasions. I tried staying away, but had to come back as it is the best place for someone like me to try to learn, and believe me - I have so much to learn (just look at my posts and you can see that!).

I don't know if this is a cultural difference, something that gets lost in a translation to English or what.

Besides me being annoying, have any of you noticed this increase as well?

Thanks for letting me blow off some steam!

Dave ;)

[Bachstelze]

Several of my friends and I have noticed over the past few months a large increase in the number of people posting for help on the beginners forum, then rejecting everything that is said to them, say they know better, and just argue instead of trying to solve their problem.

Sadly, this didn't appear just a few months ago... Very irritating indeed.

[grahammechanical]

I have only been viewing these forums for a few weeks. I did not notice this problem but then I have never been in the beginners forum. I have noticed that many ask for help but do not clearly state the problem. Also, when asked to provide information they do not respond. That must be most frustrating to those of you who are trying to help.

regards

[XubuRoxMySox]

Alot of newbies don't know how to ask a question (yet), and don't take time to read the "how to ask a question" stickies.

But I help them anyway if I can, because alot of the time it's just a matter of terminology or some leftover assumption from Windows that they didn't realize was a false assumption. The OS is just "part of the computer" to people who really didn't pay it any attention until there was a problem that they thought Linux could solve. Some even think of Linux as a "program" rather than an operating system.

I'm still close enough to my newbie days to remember some of those assumptions I used to make... if nothing else I try to help them find the right words to describe their problem so that others with more Linux experience than me can help them solve it - once it has been put in terms that a Linux person understands.

My own experience with Linux has been so trouble-free that I really can't offer alot of the technical advice some people need, but at least I can help a little with "translating" a description into "Linux language" so that more geeky folks can ientify the problem.

I wonder if that "language barrier," so to speak, is part of the problem.

-Robin

[Bachstelze]

I did not notice this problem but then I have never been in the beginners forum.

It is luckily not very common. It does happen from time to time, though.

[MooPi]

I particularly remember one OP that insisted that they knew more about defragmentation and hard drives, and how to defrag Linux. It was almost comical if not for their annoying insistence that they knew it all about hard drives and how they functioned. I seem to remember them coming around only in the end.

[anewguy]

I particularly remember one OP that insisted that they knew more about defragmentation and hard drives, and how to defrag Linux. It was almost comical if not for their annoying insistence that they knew it all about hard drives and how they functioned. I seem to remember them coming around only in the end.

Good example of one of the things I'm talking about. I've seen people with graphics problems who won't accept they need a driver because "it can't be a graphics problems - I KNOW my PC". I've seen people with disk problems who won't accept it could possibly be a disk problem. The list is almost endless.

While I do try to help where I can, and I sure don't claim to be an expert by any means, I understand language translation problems, etc.. There does seem to be an influx of people from who knows where in the world that apparently arguing and yelling are part of their culture and they carry that into the forums. It is at the least inapproriate there, and extremely annoying to those who are just trying to help.

I don't know what, if anything can be done about this. The beauty of ubuntu and these forums is the vast differences in cultures, etc., that are brought together here for a common good. It's a VERY unusual thing in the world today unfortunately.

So, I guess I'm just blowing off steam, but there are times you just wish you could reach through the screen, slap them upside the head and say "hello? are you actually listening???".

Dave ;)

[arpanaut]

@anewguy
Hey Man some folks can't be helped.

I think I know what thread you are frustrated about, Not pretty. I think the gentleman was sincere but misguided by previous knowledge. Being unwilling to offer more information as requested, just made things more difficult.

Some people just want to argue, or offer opinion as fact. <I call it the Twitter Factor> hehe!

Sometimes you just got to walk away, as much as it is commendable to help, sometimes it is better to exit for one's own piece of mind.

BTW this is not a new phenomenon, been here since the get go, just better moderated and I think for the most part this forum has a NO BS reputation, which helps.

Gotta pick the battles you want to fight.
Don't sweat it, give help where it is appreciated.
Otherwise, go with the flow.

"People are Strange" -The Doors

[fiyer]

Sometimes people have a preconceived idea of what the answer is, and they want you to verify that for them, not suggest something new!

The search function of the webpage seems to be lost on many beginners. I haven't posted any substantial questions in my 3 weeks of usage because I found all the answers so far in past posts. I think people often ask before they even make an attempt. I've been able to answer Wine questions that I figured out myself in 5 min of trial and error...

[icechen1]

A rise in popularity will always translate into a higher number of troublesome users or "trolls", YouTube comments are an example of this.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

anewguy,

This has been increasing for more that a few months. I have noticed that I have been helping less and less on the forums. The things that cause me to give up trying to help most often are, 1) people that do not provide the output of a command when requested, and 2) those that insist that something can not be the problem as it was working sometime in the past.

After several years of trying to help people, I have made some rules about replying to request for help. The rules are based on something that may not be their problem, it could be my problem with understanding them. I know from experience not to try and overcome a language barrier. The 3 primary rules I have for not replying to help requests are, 1) if they are using the SMS language, 2) their English looks like some website translated to English for them, and 3) the English is so poor that I am unsure what they are asking.

Another thing that seems to be increasing is the multiple replies to requests for help were the helpers are conflicting with each other. What annoys me is when one person criticizes the response someone else made by stating that their is an easier way. If the advice will work, there is no reason to confuse the OP with conflicting suggestions. It may be true that some methods are easier; however, sometimes the easier steps leave out some important items. Important items; such as, enabling the necessary repository before executing the command.

[corrytonapple]

So, I guess I'm just blowing off steam, but there are times you just wish you could reach through the screen, slap them upside the head and say "hello? are you actually listening???".

Dave ;)
So, what we should do, is have them download an App that makes it so we can stick out our hands and give em a slap. Good idea, where can I find more info about this? But really, I actually tried to help a person like that, and in the end, I helped him solve is problem. After repeating my self seven times he finally got the idea. Maybe they just want to boost our bean count.....

[inobe]

Several of my friends and I have noticed over the past few months a large increase in the number of people posting for help on the beginners forum, then rejecting everything that is said to them, say they know better, and just argue instead of trying to solve their problem. Some of my friends have just quit coming back to the forum except on very rare occasions. I tried staying away, but had to come back as it is the best place for someone like me to try to learn, and believe me - I have so much to learn (just look at my posts and you can see that!).

I don't know if this is a cultural difference, something that gets lost in a translation to English or what.

Besides me being annoying, have any of you noticed this increase as well?

Thanks for letting me blow off some steam!

Dave ;)

remember dave, only the strong, open minded survive.

the know it alls can simply help their selves ;)

[BigCityCat]

I never even new that section was up there. I put all my dumb questions in the general help section.):P

I have had a few people help me when I needed it. Most of the time I just re installed after I blew up my install. I have learned a lot over the last couple years mostly by trial and error and reading these forums. I'm stable now.

I think some people ask the question but they really don't know what the problem really is and they usually give up and start over before they even get an answer. It's just impatience.

Like for example. I can remember installing Java through synaptic and I didn't realize that java was waiting for me to except the license agreement under the expand button on synaptic. I thought it just locked up so I cancel the install and ended up with broken dependencies. I'm like what the hell is that. Now I can't install anything. Something so simple was a lot of work in the beginning.

[corrytonapple]

I never even new that section was up there. I put all my dumb questions in the general help section.):P

I have had a few people help me when I needed it. Most of the time I just re installed after I blew up my install. I have learned a lot over the last couple years mostly by trial and error and reading these forums. I'm stable now.

I think some people ask the question but they really don't know what the problem really is and they usually give up and start over before they even get an answer. It's just impatience.

Like for example. I can remember installing Java through synaptic and I didn't realize that java was waiting for me to except the license agreement under the expand button on synaptic. I thought it just locked up so I cancel the install and ended up with broken dependencies. I'm like what the hell is that. Now I can't install anything. Something so simple was a lot of work in the beginning.
They should have made the license agreement highlighted so users can see it.

[wilee-nilee]

To be honest I'm surprised that in general we can communicate and help each other at all in this median. ;)

[inobe]

They should have made the license agreement highlighted so users can see it.

not being selfish, but am i the only one that sees the license agreements ?

[anewguy]

Alas, the "slap up side the head" app is requirying more work than anticipated. Can't find a good supplier of USB-connect foam rubber manipulative hands.

Dave ;)

[corrytonapple]

not being selfish, but am i the only one that sees the license agreements ?
No, I read them, to see if I will comply with their license agreements.

Alas, the "slap up side the head" app is requiring more work than anticipated. Can't find a good supplier of USB-connect foam rubber manipulative hands.

Dave ;)
Darn, that's too bad. So what is the next idea, overwhelm them with emails that say nothing but :lolflag:s? It is so annoying that they will do anything to get their problem solved, even be wrong! OR, we could teach them how to post using quote, code, and smileys correctly.:lolflag:

[anewguy]

Or, even better yet, perhaps a beginners forum is needed in their native language rather then English?

[ubunterooster]

After repeating my self seven times he finally got the idea. Maybe they just want to boost our bean count.....
Niice :) Very optimistic and amusing.

I think it is frustrating to have them not pay much attention and it does happen way to often but you have to remember they are out of their territory and are likely somewhat mentally disoriented.

[forrestcupp]

The key is to pick and choose the threads you hang around in. You're not required to continue these discussions. The minute someone gets that attitude, just stop posting and move on to someone who will appreciate your help.

If you continue trying to fight your cause with the unteachable, then you're being unfair to and taking time away from all of the people out there who would gladly accept your help.

I guess the question is, are you posting because you want everyone to realize you're right and knowledgeable, or are you really posting to help people?

[robsoles]

I reckon a quarter or more of my beans are due to repeating myself, more often implicitly than explicitly - a lot of the time though I see it's the terminology and they just need it in their terminology so to be sure I understand what they want and am trying to give it to them.

The only ways in which I "Pick & Choose" is if they leave too many questions to ask in their OP and everyone else is pretending it's the plague or, I'd have to research too much to be sure I was helping. Of course, if I think someone has nailed it or put up enough for the OP to try at first and I can't value add then I will subscribe the thread or not depending how bad I want to see how it works out!

Many are perfectly clever enough and get on with it nicely though, have to admit. Got me a fair bunch of beans per effort but what are beans but probable barking in the end?

I should speak for myself, no doubt :)

mmmh, wow did I ever water this rant down! I think I will goto bed!

[sandyd]

Several of my friends and I have noticed over the past few months a large increase in the number of people posting for help on the beginners forum, then rejecting everything that is said to them, say they know better, and just argue instead of trying to solve their problem. Some of my friends have just quit coming back to the forum except on very rare occasions. I tried staying away, but had to come back as it is the best place for someone like me to try to learn, and believe me - I have so much to learn (just look at my posts and you can see that!).

I don't know if this is a cultural difference, something that gets lost in a translation to English or what.

Besides me being annoying, have any of you noticed this increase as well?

Thanks for letting me blow off some steam!

Dave ;)

I dont answer those threads. period. its pointless to get into a useless argument with someone who could well be floating in the middle of the dead sea or camped out on a hillside in the park next to my house.