How do you respond to 'PC or mac?'?

[Dustin2128]

I usually just say 'I use a PC, but I don't run windows'. How about you?

[cgroza]

PC means Personal Computer. Would a mac be a Personal Computer. I think yes. So im neutral.

[andymorton]

It's not asked often but people automatically assume I use windows. Whenever I tell someone I use Ubuntu the usual response is ''What's that?'' Most people are sceptical about it, i.e. quality of the sofware and the OS itself, particular when they find out it's free. But once I've shown it to them, people seem impressed. Sadly I haven't actually persuaded anyone to try Ubuntu yet. I think I'm wearing my girlfriend down though. :D

[murderslastcrow]

I usually say something like, "I use a computer with Ubuntu," or "I'm using a PC, but not Windows." You know, just to clarify that I have a personal computer, and it doesn't run a Windows operating system. I'm a fairly straightforward person- I don't think the OS I use has much need for heavy wording or opinionated implications.

[Dustin2128]

Kinda a side note, I really dislike the terminology. All computers with owners are the owner's 'personal computer'. Where did PC come from anyway?

[Random_Dude]

PC means Personal Computer. Would a mac be a Personal Computer. I think yes. So im neutral.

I think a mac is a personal computer, therefore a PC. But mac users tend to dislike people calling them PCs.
Isn't this PC/Mac differentiation just a marketing move by Apple?

[KiwiNZ]

Where did PC come from anyway?

it came from Dr Henry Roberts from Micro Instrumentation and Telemetry Systems Ltd

[aysiu]

I tell them I'm trilingual and use Windows, Mac, and Linux on a regular basis (I use Windows 7 at work and both Mac OS X and Ubuntu Linux at home).

I'm not a fan of fanaticism.

I think Windows, Mac, and Linux are all wonderful in their own ways, and I'm proud that I'm comfortable using all three platforms.

[croivzeba]

I just say that I'm not going to waste my time on the topic.

If they keep annoying me and they run windows I say good for you, if they have a mac I laugh and that makes them feel awkward enough to stop asking :).

They are both PC's, one fits some people better but this doesn't make either of them superior. Enough said..

[teh'p3nsi0n3r]

i think windows, mac, and linux are all wonderful in their own ways, and i'm proud them i'm comfortable using all three platforms.

+1

[TyrantWave]

I just say *NIX. (Nicks! =D)

[Rasa1111]

are you a mac or a PC?

i'm a PC, a Linux PC.
aka, a real PC. lol :P

Im a PC, and Ubuntu was my idea.
Windows was definitely not my idea. :lol:
<3

[earthpigg]

Most people are sceptical about it, i.e. quality of the sofware and the OS itself, particular when they find out it's free.

I usually don't say "it's free", i say

"It wont cost me or you any money because the company behind it doesn't want our money. They want the money of companies and businesses that use it."

Typical response: "Well, how do they make sure you aren't a business?"

"They don't. If a company wants to use it without paying, that is ok with them. They provide other services, such as professional technical support, a music store, and a service that allows you to backup & sync your documents and the like across multiple computers. They regard people that use it without paying as free advertisers - consider the conversation that we are having now. They believe that if they make a great product, the publicity will take care of itself."

That isn't a verbatim line that I have memorized, but that's the stuff I try to make sure i touch on.


The Free Software concept is great, but it's a concept with which great care must be taken prior to introduction to many consumers. Start with the acknowledgement that money is a motive.

[MasterNetra]

It's not asked often but people automatically assume I use windows. Whenever I tell someone I use Ubuntu the usual response is ''What's that?'' Most people are sceptical about it, i.e. quality of the sofware and the OS itself, particular when they find out it's free. But once I've shown it to them, people seem impressed. Sadly I haven't actually persuaded anyone to try Ubuntu yet. I think I'm wearing my girlfriend down though. :D

By wearing down you mean she is about tired of you trying to get her to use it so she might if anything to get it to hush you up? :p

[Frogs Hair]

No one has ever ask and I don't expect it , I thought that was only a TV thing.

[samalex]

PC means Personal Computer. Would a mac be a Personal Computer. I think yes. So im neutral.

Some computer history here :)

The reason 'PC' is generally tied to computers running a Microsoft OS is a carry over from the old IBM days when in 1981 the first IBM computer for individuals running Microsoft PC-DOS 1.0 was called the IBM 5150 Personal Computer, which eventually got shortened to IBM PC or just PC, not unlike the Apple Macintosh getting shortened to Mac. Anyone remember the term IBM Compatible or PC Compatible??? The original 8088 IBM PC was the first, but any system based on that Intel architecture that could run the latest Microsoft OS was called a PC Compatible system. Software was even labeled as PC Compatible not because it could run on an Intel-based system or IBM 5150, but because it would run on the Microsoft OS.

Side note, PC-DOS was what Microsoft sold to IBM, but they licensed the same OS as MS-DOS to other vendors to run on PC Compatible systems. So through version 6.22 MS-DOS and PC-DOS were pretty much identical, and not until Windows 95 and PC-DOS 7 did they split.

Now fast forward 30 years later and the term PC is still tied to a computer that's running Windows regardless of what processor it has. Granted 'personal computer' is a generic term that most computers would be called, but used as a proper noun a Personal Computer or PC in our tech lexicon has been adopted as a Microsoft-based system.

As for Mac vs PC when people ask, I say I run neither.. my system runs Linux :) Yes it is a personal computer, but not running Windows I don't consider it a PC.

Take care --

Sam

[Dustin2128]

I usually don't say "it's free", i say

"It wont cost me or you any money because the company behind it doesn't want our money. They want the money of companies and businesses that use it."

Typical response: "Well, how do they make sure you aren't a business?"

"They don't. If a company wants to use it without paying, that is ok with them. They provide other services, such as professional technical support, a music store, and a service that allows you to backup & sync your documents and the like across multiple computers. They regard people that use it without paying as free advertisers - consider the conversation that we are having now. They believe that if they make a great product, the publicity will take care of itself."

hm, there's an interesting explanation I might use in the future...

[ubunterooster]

"I use Linux" (unspoken) "duh!"

[foxxxy]

There's no reason to use a Mac over a PC. I'd rather just get what I pay for.

[Dustin2128]

There's no reason to use a Mac over a PC. I'd rather just get what I pay for.
what do you mean?

[earthpigg]

what do you mean?

My guess would be that he purchases Apple hardware and loads Ubuntu and/or Windows on it.

Or hackintosh.

[jediknight64]

Does "Lucid Leopard" qualify as a valid response?:guitar:

[DoubleClicker]

There's no reason to use a Mac over a PC. I'd rather just get what I pay for.

So would I, that's why I use a Mac. What you get, with a Mac, would typically cost more if you tried to configure a comparable generic PC. Anyone who tells you otherwise is comparing on only a few specs, not truly comparable quality components. If your looking for a cheap computer don't get a Mac, but if you are looking for the best deal on a high end computer, my experience is that Apple gives the most bang for the buck. This does not hold true on peripherals and upgrades, though. Buying additional RAM or Storage, from Apple, is just plain stupid.

[Dr. C]

What is the difference between a PC and a Mac if one is running GNU / Linux on it?

[lisati]

"If it's not a PC, then what's Apple doing selling it in the computer section?" :D

[Ctrl-Alt-F1]

I've used 'Penguin' before. I dual boot Windows now though, so I'd probably just say pc.

[Khakilang]

Over here when you say you have a PC they will ask what version of Window it is run on. Because the MS OS has been tied to PC for 30 years so its just stuck with the computer. As for Macintosh it is just Mac. To me PC means Personal Computer that can run any OS on it. Macintosh is also computer you use personally so it is a Personal Computer but people call it Mac to differentiate from the Window base PCs. But what about computer that run Linux? Linux PC or just Linux?

[drawkcab]

My ex gf bought me a shirt that says, "I am a Linux"

[forrestcupp]

Some computer history here :)

The reason 'PC' is generally tied to computers running a Microsoft OS is a carry over from the old IBM days when in 1981 the first IBM computer for individuals running Microsoft PC-DOS 1.0 was called the IBM 5150 Personal Computer, which eventually got shortened to IBM PC or just PC, not unlike the Apple Macintosh getting shortened to Mac.

Thank you. For almost 31 years, PC has referred to a computer running a Microsoft OS. And now people running an OS with a 1-2% market share want to make a stink about it.

There is a difference between a PC and a personal computer.

[pookiebear]

unix, BSD, linux, haiku... all in the same boat for the answer you could interchange them all and the question asker would not care for the explanation.

You could change the third option to "Free - OS" or "Free - PC" to peak some interest.
As in: "Are you a Mac or PC?" you could answer "FREE - PC" or "FREE - OS" then explain the difference.
Adding the "FREE" into the equation takes the question from casual small talk into the realm of education by generating some interest.

side note though: The one thing that bothers me on this topic is that you can't say "linux" without a 5 minute conversation that could explain it. Then never get to finish that 5 min conversation because the question asker becomes highly disinterested at the 15 second point.
Linux as a "brand" does not exist properly. This should be rectified. 1 ad on the superbowl would do the trick because with 250+ different top level distro's out there, the grass roots stuff can not work properly or fast enough to build up steam and create the brand name as a household term.

[TNT1]

This must be a marketing thing. I have never heard anyone outside a movie ask this.

[PostChache]

I've never had anyone ask me lol

[BrokenKingpin]

I usually say I run Linux on my personal computer, then go into a huge tirade about how sh*tty macs are and how they are disrupting the universe... for example, there are way to many ****ing Apple threads on these forums.

[conundrumx]

I usually say I run Linux on my personal computer, then go into a huge tirade about how sh*tty macs are and how they are disrupting the universe... for example, there are way to many ****ing Apple threads on these forums.

What's wrong with Macs? :)

[Shining Arcanine]

PC means Personal Computer. Would a mac be a Personal Computer. I think yes. So im neutral.

All desktop and laptop systems are PCs, Apple systems included.

I hate it when non-technical people try to be technical and try to talk about whether desktops and/or laptops are PCs or not. I try to tell them that they are all PCs, but Apple's marketing department is misrepresenting reality.

[Bachstelze]

I can't recall ever being asked this. If I were, I would probably respond "depends on the time".



I hate it when non-technical people try to be technical and try to talk about whether desktops and/or laptops are PCs or not. I try to tell them that they are all PCs, but Apple's marketing department is misrepresenting reality.

I hate it when people are being such smartasses that they feel the need, when someone uses a word in an arguably* improper way, to pretend they didn't understand what the person actually meant, when they fully do.

* "Arguably" because a lot of very technical people interpret "PC" as "IBM PC-compatible machine", which Macs are not because for one thing, they don't use PC-BIOS but EFI.

[TNT1]

* "Arguably" because a lot of very technical people interpret "PC" as "IBM PC-compatible machine", which Macs are not because for one thing, they don't use PC-BIOS but EFI.

So eben a hackingtosh user would have to respond : "PC"...:D

[Bachstelze]

So eben a hackingtosh user would have to respond : "PC"...:D

Of course. "PC" obviously refers to the hardware, the OS is irrelevant.

[Shining Arcanine]

I can't recall ever being asked this. If I were, I would probably respond "depends on the time".



I hate it when people are being such smartasses that they feel the need, when someone uses a word in an arguably* improper way, to pretend they didn't understand what the person actually meant, when they fully do.

* "Arguably" because a lot of very technical people interpret "PC" as "IBM PC-compatible machine", which Macs are not because for one thing, they don't use PC-BIOS but EFI.

The fact that you need to say IBM PC-compatible implies that the term PC encompasses more than IBM PCs, does it not? Also, EFI was made by Intel to succeed the traditional IBM PC BIOS. As long as the kernel can work with it, the rest of the system will not know the difference between a system using a BIOS or a EFI. The same is true for many things that were replaced in newer systems, such as ISA.

[TNT1]

Of course. "PC" obviously refers to the hardware, the OS is irrelevant.


From reading this thread, you'd never have guessed that;)

[Bachstelze]

The fact that you need to say IBM PC-compatible implies that the term PC encompasses more than IBM PCs, does it not?

It does if you interpret PC literally as Personal Computer. Someone making a distinction between PCs and Macs obviously does not.


Also, EFI was made by Intel to succeed the traditional IBM PC BIOS. As long as the kernel can work with it, the rest of the system will not know the difference between a system using a BIOS or a EFI. The same is true for many things that were replaced in newer systems, such as ISA.

How is that relevant to the discussion at hand?

[Shining Arcanine]

How is that relevant to the discussion at hand?

Just as long as the legacy pieces are supported, a new PC could potentially still be considered an IBM PC, even if OS/2 cannot run on it.

The main distinguishing factor is whether or not x86 software can run on its CPU.

[Bachstelze]

Just as long as the legacy pieces are supported, a new PC could potentially still be considered an IBM PC, even if OS/2 cannot run on it.

What do you mean by "a new PC"? An EFI PC? I wouldn't consider that an IBM PC anymore, though I'm sure common speech would still call it a PC.

But that wasn't my point anyway, my point was that answering the "PC or Mac" question with "a Mac is a PC" is akin to correcting people with "you meant 'mass'" when they use the word "weight" instead. It gets annoying after a while, even when you fully know the difference.

[Shining Arcanine]

What do you mean by "a new PC"? An EFI PC? I wouldn't consider that an IBM PC anymore, though I'm sure common speech would still call it a PC.

But that wasn't my point anyway, my point was that answering the "PC or Mac" question with "a Mac is a PC" is akin to correcting people with "you meant 'mass'" when they use the word "weight" instead. It gets annoying after a while, even when you fully know the difference.

Well, of course it is annoying, but it is not my fault that they are doing it. In the case of PCs, blame Apple. In the case of mass, blame the education system. Both put so much garbage into people's brains that there is no room for factual information.

[aysiu]

It does if you interpret PC literally as Personal Computer. Someone making a distinction between PCs and Macs obviously does not. I argue they should:
Sometimes I will get PC about “PC” (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/sometimes-i-will-get-pc-about-pc/)

[Bachstelze]

I argue they should:
Sometimes I will get PC about “PC” (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/sometimes-i-will-get-pc-about-pc/)

Do you also argue that people should say "the Microsoft Windows operating system" instead of "Windows", so as to not confuse it with "openings on a wall designed to let light pass"?

"PC" as a shortcut for "IBM PC-compatible machine" is correct as far as I'm concerned. If people want to use it that way, I'm perfectly fine with it.

[aysiu]

Do you also argue that people should say "the Microsoft Windows operating system" instead of "Windows", so as to not confuse it with "openings on a wall designed to let light pass"?

"PC" as a shortcut for "IBM PC-compatible machine" is correct as far as I'm concerned. If people want to use it that way, I'm perfectly fine with it.
If that's how people actually used PC, I'd have no objections, but they don't mean "IBM PC-compatible machine." They do mean "Windows PC," which is why I want them to say "Windows PC."

As I said in the blog post (did you read it or just look at the title?), if someone says "Hand me a Kleenex" and you give her a Puffs tissue instead, she will not protest it isn't Kleenex brand. "Kleenex" is a brand name, but it's understood to also mean tissue in general.

Whereas if someone said "I don't want to get a Mac. Can you buy me a PC instead?" and you gave her a Linux PC, she is likely to notice the difference--if not at first, certainly when she attempts to install a Windows-only program.

I'm not being deliberately obtuse or trying to present some kind of "devil's advocate" perspective. I genuinely believe that (non-power-user) people generally do not use "PC" to refer to "IBM-compatible machine." They use it to mean "Windows PC as opposed to Mac PC," leaving Linux and other alternative operating systems out completely.

[samalex]

All desktop and laptop systems are PCs, Apple systems included.

I hate it when non-technical people try to be technical and try to talk about whether desktops and/or laptops are PCs or not. I try to tell them that they are all PCs, but Apple's marketing department is misrepresenting reality.

It's all about the context of how it's used, whether you use it as a proper noun or common noun. If you say "PC versus Mac" then you're using the proper noun referring to a Windows-based system. If you say personal computer (which can also be shortened as 'PC'), it's a common noun referring to pretty much any computer of any architecture whether it be Windows, Mac, Linux, OS2, Haiku, etc.

It's pretty simple, and from my perspective using the term PC in either context is acceptable. And as most of the people reading this work with or are involved with the computer industry you know 99 times out of 100 if someone refers to a computer as a PC they're referring to a Windows-based system. There are plenty of other terms that can be used for a computer as opposed to 'personal computer' .. box, computer, system, etc, so use any of these instead of PC if it's that confusing.

I personally prefer being more specific, as aysiu suggested... Windows-PC, Linux-PC, etc, but our society is full of laymen who are using the terms they've always heard. It's like someone calling the computer a CPU. In the very general sense of the term it could be acceptable since it's the central piece of hardware that everything runs to, but from a technical standpoint it's incorrect terminology. So again, it all comes to the perspective of who's speaking and the context of how it's used.

[Dustin2128]

All desktop and laptop systems are PCs, Apple systems included.
^This

[samalex]

Originally Posted by Shining Arcanine
All desktop and laptop systems are PCs, Apple systems included.

^This

It's hard to throw 30 years of terminology to the way side, so though I agree with you that the generic term personal computer does apply to all computers other than servers some will still use Personal Computer as a proper noun describing Microsoft-based systems.

Not to bring religion into this because I'm about as far from being religious as anyone can be -- plus it's against rules --, but unfortunately the only other term I can think of off hand that is similar to Personal Computer (proper noun) vs personal computer (common noun) is god vs God. In our society when someone says 'god' 99 times out of 100 they're probably using it as a proper noun describing the God in the Christian Bible, but to many (including me) the term is a common noun meaning it could encompass any deity or thing that can be worshiped. Some could say, then why not just say Christian God or Greek God or Native American God or whatever (like Windows PC, FOSS PC, Mac PC, etc), but that's not the lexicon we live with in our society. Unfortunately since Microsoft Windows runs in most computers, most people will continue referring to Personal Computers as Windows-based systems.

So correcting someone who says a Personal Computer is a Windows-based system may sound politically correct (PC????), but in a way you'd both be right since you're referring to two different states of the noun.

Again, just my opinion on this topic, and yes it's an argument that's come up many times in the circles I run :)

[lisati]

I argue they should:
Sometimes I will get PC about “PC” (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/sometimes-i-will-get-pc-about-pc/)

Exactly! We know what people mean, but......

(I am momentarily distracted by the thought that the only appliance the Lisati household has that is manufactured by Hoover wouldn't be of much use as a vacuum cleaner.)

[TNT1]

If that's how people actually used PC, I'd have no objections, but they don't mean "IBM PC-compatible machine." They do mean "Windows PC," which is why I want them to say "Windows PC."
.

Hang on...

I only have Linux on all my computers, and they all have windows, and window managers, and all sorts of things with window in the title:popcorn:

[forrestcupp]

Dell makes computers that businesses use internationally. So because of that, are Dell computers IBMs? No, they are not. Dells are international business machines, but they are definitely not IBMs.

In the same way, IBM made a line of computers that they named the PC and it was based on a Microsoft operating system, just like the Commodore 64 was based on BASIC 2.0, which was also licensed from Microsoft. IBM PC computers have always been based on MS operating systems. So why wouldn't people assume that a computer named PC would be associated with MS Windows?

Like I said earlier, there is a difference between "personal computers" and "PCs". The fact is that IBM named their computers PC and that name was for the whole package, including the operating system. That name and association carries over to all of the compatible brands.

[Denis Krajnc]

I like Windows, Mac OS X, Linux.
They all can be good for something and bad for something else.
I just prefer Linux.

[beew]

Don't remember where I read this, it says the Windows user is the conservative business type at one end or a house wife at the other end, what unites them is the desire for familarity and the fact that they are definitely not cool; the Mac user is some rich yuppy who spends too much money on a computer so he can think that he is ultra cool; the Linux user is the cheapo hippy with dirty hair and a bad attitude. :)

[samalex]

I like Windows, Mac OS X, Linux.
They all can be good for something and bad for something else.
I just prefer Linux.

I agree with this completely... =D>