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murderslastcrow
August 30th, 2010, 08:57 AM
In my personal experience with computers, and Linux in particular, I've found that most Linux users I know either don't know exactly what Linux is or don't care enough to really call themselves a 'Linux user'.

Many family members I know use Ubuntu, many of my friends and colleagues use it, and I've met about four people, just normal ol' non-geeky shmoes who know little more than how to install Winamp, who used it before I met them.

That makes me somewhat of an evangelist, you could say, but it was more like, "this is the fiftieth time I've fixed Windows for you, and there's this thing called Ubuntu." Usually it's only a matter of seeing which programs work in Wine to determine if it's a perfect fit, a dual-boot, or a no go. But to be honest, at first it was just to reduce the time spent messing with peoples' Windows installations, as installing Ubuntu and Wine is quite a lot faster.

So really, I'm not an active or aggressive converter. I just know about Ubuntu and tell people about it when they're having problems, as it does solve the problems they've been dealing with for years. Linux is much more than that, of course, but to most people it's just a tool.

But really, about five people I know who use it, including my Grandma, don't really know what Linux is or don't remember it's called Ubuntu, but they love it, use it, install software, and even upgrade it (my Grandma upgraded to Lucid Lynx all by herself, without me reminding her or anything).

And all those other dozens of people know what it is, and love it, but they never consider themselves a part of the community or sign up to the forums. Just like Windows and OSX users, I've noticed a huge uptake among 'non-believers'. That is, people who use the software and love it, but don't necessarily care about it until they have to use Windows somewhere.

I don't know if this is only a local trend, or if this is the majority of users everywhere, but these people don't usually go around yammering about Linux unless it comes up. And as they aren't the kind to be asked for help with Windows issues, they don't get into those situations, so naturally most users I've met socially just don't talk about it unless someone mentions it (not very often).

Just an interesting observation- your thoughts/experiences? Is it just me, or is this common among you guys? Have you met any Linux users 'in the wild' like I have?

julio_cortez
August 30th, 2010, 09:28 AM
Just an interesting observation- your thoughts/experiences? Is it just me, or is this common among you guys? Have you met any Linux users 'in the wild' like I have?
I was one of the people that kind of disliked Linux in the beginning, just because I've always been used to Windows and at first I couldn't get my head around Linux (I had to use it in university, but I didn't get further than that).
Then a colleague of mine back in late 2009 (after at least 3 years that I didn't either hear or see anything Linux-related) showed me some screenshots of his Ubuntu and told me "as you are already experienced with computers enough to create/modify a partition table, you should have Ubuntu up and running in about an hour if you decide to try it, without having to drop Windows".

Well, I got hooked instantaneously and now I cannot think about my PC without thinking at Ubuntu. After that, I had some of my relatives and friends see it in action.

My uncle, who is a long-time Windows user (and started thinking of me as a hacker as soon as he knew I was running Linux), asked if I could let him have a copy to try because "it looks beautiful".
Last friday I used an Ubuntu live CD to get important data off my cousin's laptop (which was refusing booting no-matter-what) and then I've been asked to install Ubuntu on it (which I did in about a hour, with both the owners of the laptop being completely satisfied of it to say the least).
Tonight I'm installing a copy of Ubuntu on the PC of a friend of mine that incidentally saw me recover data from my cousin's PC friday.

So, I really think that if you're "forced" or "stressed" to use Linux (Ubuntu, in this case), you'll probably don't like it. But if you "see it in action" yourself, you'll get involved in seconds.
That's why I don't "propose" Ubunto to anyone anymore, but instead I'll let them see the copy I am running (it's incredible how many people get hooked just on the good compositing effects)..

murderslastcrow
August 30th, 2010, 10:05 AM
Ah yes, it's important to note that I've never rallied someone into using it if they didn't show interest. Obviously, a few YouTube videos can be encouraging, and anyone who sees me on my computer is usually curious as to what I'm using and they at least get a better idea of how good Linux is. Unfortunately, many of these people take their unfamiliarity with it as "oh, it must be geeky and difficult, and that's why it's not on everything yet. I'll wait until it's sold at the store."

But increasingly many people are getting involved with it, and as such you see a rise in the debates over Operating Systems and software availability. Far more than before you see people discussing computers, even with smartphones coming on, but aside from that the arguments tend to be far less, "Linux isn't ready, Linux isn't friendly enough, Linux isn't pretty enough, Linux is low quality, Linux isn't significantly faster, Linux has less hardware compatibility" and more and more it's, "it can't run my games," or "it can't run Adobe for my business."

You'll notice that, outside of Adobe, most people who try Macs have the same issues, except that they don't have the tenacity to say "Macs aren't ready for the mainstream" just because they can't run GTA 4, or because Macs don't work with their peripherals (something that Linux doesn't have a hard time at all with these days).

But yes, I have to agree that you should never pressure someone into using Linux, because they feel like it wasn't their decision, and if they do happen to like it, the like will be lessened, and if they have any issues getting comfortable they will get angry with you rather than showing patience. Fortunately this only happened to me once when I was really excited about it, then I realized that some people just aren't ready for Linux and that's perfectly fine.

For most people, it's just a comfort issue. Truth be told, most people aren't PC gamers or multimedia professionals, and would do better with Ubuntu. It doesn't mean that they'll be willing to, even if it's free.

On the other end of the spectrum, many people care more about special effects, aesthetic beauty, speed, ease of use, and functionality than having a specific Windows program. They're willing to learn GIMP or Firefox for a few minutes to get a better experience.

Naiki Muliaina
August 30th, 2010, 10:31 AM
I don't really care.

To be honest, I don't care as much as most people. I used to be passionate, but couldn't dump Windows. When Mandriva got to 2006/7 edition I was mostly able to drop Windows. I still had a partition 'just in case'. When Hardy Heron came out I dumped Windows completely.

For a short time I wasn't fanatical but I was enthusiastic about Linux. I had taken the leap into the new world. About Mandriva 2006 time, the new world could still fry ya PC :P I felt I had stuck it to the man! Yeah!

Later I came to realise Linux is just a tool. PC's are just tools. My enthusiasm and gusto left me somewhat. I tried Windows a couple of times but to be honest, in my life and workplace, Linux is the right tool for the job. So I stuck with it.

If Amiga made a big comeback and did the jobs I need done better than all the other systems out there (and god a bit cheaper hardware wise!) I would jump ship. Heck to be honest, much though I dislike Microsoft, if they made the right tool for the job I would use Windows again.

I always have lots of alpha/beta software on my PC and always do bug reports but that is all I do for the community really.

On the whole... I have to say... I don't really care...

Zlatan
August 30th, 2010, 10:47 AM
I don't really care.

To be honest, I don't care as much as most people. I used to be passionate, but couldn't dump Windows. When Mandriva got to 2006/7 edition I was mostly able to drop Windows. I still had a partition 'just in case'. When Hardy Heron came out I dumped Windows completely.

For a short time I wasn't fanatical but I was enthusiastic about Linux. I had taken the leap into the new world. About Mandriva 2006 time, the new world could still fry ya PC :P I felt I had stuck it to the man! Yeah!

Later I came to realise Linux is just a tool. PC's are just tools. My enthusiasm and gusto left me somewhat. I tried Windows a couple of times but to be honest, in my life and workplace, Linux is the right tool for the job. So I stuck with it.

If Amiga made a big comeback and did the jobs I need done better than all the other systems out there (and god a bit cheaper hardware wise!) I would jump ship. Heck to be honest, much though I dislike Microsoft, if they made the right tool for the job I would use Windows again.

I always have lots of alpha/beta software on my PC and always do bug reports but that is all I do for the community really.

On the whole... I have to say... I don't really care...

I second you mate- I know what Ubuntu and linux is but I don't really care or have to care that much as before- that's how good Ubuntu is:)

Spice Weasel
August 30th, 2010, 10:54 AM
I told my school about Red Hat, my aunt about Fedora, my netbook-using friend about Easypeasy. They all love it. :) My school won't be switching to RHEL until all of their Windows-related contracts run out though. It's a start. If Windows works for them, good for them. If it doesn't, and they think that it's all they can use, give them the name of a Linux distribution that you think will be suited to them. Don't just give them the name of one and install it, talk them through a bit and decide which would be best for them. Ubuntu isn't for everyone. Especially if you want professional support, the ability to run your netbook OS on a non-Atom netbook, not to need to worry about upgrading, etc. It's that simple.

Oppermongo
August 30th, 2010, 11:04 AM
Problem (or advantage) is that Ubuntu is easy to use and somehow looks like windows. I think most people (regular windows users) don't even realize something like a terminal exists and that's ok, because Linux will reach much more people this way, making opensource more popular, through Ubuntu.
However, when you really want to use Linux, it's not with the GUI and that's also possible in Ubuntu, so it's just a great OS I guess :)

malspa
August 30th, 2010, 11:07 AM
I don't care what anybody else uses.

XubuRoxMySox
August 30th, 2010, 11:58 AM
I haven't been a computer user for all that long. When I started it was with Windows, and I really never "learned Windows." I just clicked on what I wanted and learned by doing.

When I found Ubuntu and found that it worked on my hardware, I wiped Windows away just because it had gotten so slow and fixing it cost too much money. Ubuntu worked, so I just used it. I didn't try to "learn Linux," I just used my computer, as I always had.

After a bit I was so delighted with it that I started to actually care, and "learned Linux" - a little, anyway. Distro-hopped, experimented, played with stuff 'til it broke then learned how to fix it. Even built my own Debian/Xfce mixture from the net-install. But for the most part my Linux experience has been so trouble free that I haven't needed to really "learn Linux" that much.

Lately, I find real life "outside the basement" taking much more time and interest. I run applications, not the OS. I had spent over a month building and tweaking and perfecting my perfect Debian/Xfce mixture - only to find that it was very little different from Xubuntu by the time I had gotten it just the way I like it. I was like,

"Gee, another re-invented wheel... and the old one was already there the whole time and works even better than the one I spent all those frustrating hours and weeks tinkering with. Way to go, Robin, congratulations on your new wheel that isn't even as good as this old one that was here all along."

Yeah it was educational and all that, but it was a sort of temporary obsessive madness, and I'm back to "just using the computer" again. I still have my custom "Robin's Linux Remix," but it's just a keepsake, not even installed. Got too much to do with dance classes, school, church, friendships, and work. I share Linux with friends who ask "What's that on your 'puter" or "how did you get that old dinosaur to run so fast?" It's fun to share Linux like that! And I've learned enough to provide a little support to the people I introduce to Linux. But frankly, with Ubuntu/Mint, they haven't needed much support, and like me, once the OS is up and running, they're done playing with the OS because they'd rather run applications.

-Robin

grief -l
August 30th, 2010, 03:41 PM
That makes me somewhat of an evangelist, you could say,

I know people who won't go into a big mac because they're burger king... kingpins (or little princes maybe), won't look at a riceburner because they have Harley Davidson (hardly ableson) oil in their veins, and every other kind of branding racism imaginable with which to be indoctrinated by the corporate, consumer culture. Hey, but each is his own man, and proud of it!

julio_cortez
August 30th, 2010, 03:42 PM
I share Linux with friends who ask "What's that on your 'puter" or "how did you get that old dinosaur to run so fast?" It's fun to share Linux like that!
Yeah that's the way to go. I had a coursemate at university that was an über-geek and tried several times to convince me to try Debian, plus I was forced to use Linux for a course and I'd rather have used Windows, so I developed a kind of "bad feeling" towards Linux.
I realized that you can really like something only if you feel interest for it by your own and not by someone else's suggestion/enforcement, that's why I try not to be the "Linux evangelist".

And, I must admit, I experience fun when I set up a Linux machine under the eyes of the machine's owner, and it's also fun to explain how things work (I wouldn't feel the same if I had to explain Windows to someone).
Also it's fun when they see compiz in action, it's.. regarding :)

TNT1
August 30th, 2010, 03:48 PM
But really, about five people I know who use it, including my Grandma, don't really know what Linux is or don't remember it's called Ubuntu, but they love it, use it, install software, and even upgrade it (my Grandma upgraded to Lucid Lynx all by herself, without me reminding her or anything).


Well God bless granny, and the rest like her. If any linux is ever to get real desktop market share, we need more like her every day.

Look at it this way, my daughter, who is eight, use Edubuntu, and on occasion, win 98, she knows there is a difference, probably more from my influence, but doesn't care about the mechanics behind it, just that it works, and she can use use it. Oh, and she gets frustrated that win 98 doesn't often work, and that when it does, it doesn't work like her proper computer...

Bachstelze
August 30th, 2010, 03:49 PM
The reason is simple: For most people, an operating system is just that. It is not something they naturally brag about. They won't register in the forums or participate in the community, because there are things that are more important to them. To me, it's a good thing, it means that Ubuntu has become "manistream" enough that people don't see themselves as special when they use it.

TNT1
August 30th, 2010, 03:52 PM
The reason is simple: For most people, an operating system is just that. It is not something they naturally brag about. They won't register in the forums or participate in the community, because there are things that are more important to them. To me, it's a good thing, it means that Ubuntu has become "manistream" enough that people don't see themselves as special when they use it.

Well said.

Frogs Hair
August 30th, 2010, 04:04 PM
If really didn't care I would not have tried Ubuntu . I have helped people with Wubi installations and Ubuntu is a play thing for them and easy to remove if they want . I am not a compiz convert , meaning it was not a flashy video on You Tube that got me interested , I just wanted to learn about Linux and Ubuntu was getting the most facetime on the web. I have no problem with using closed source software if it is the right tool for the job.

mamamia88
August 30th, 2010, 04:25 PM
you have an awesome grandma

Austin25
August 30th, 2010, 05:24 PM
Well, I think if you don't know much about Linux while using Linux, confusion will hit you like a semi-truck.

murderslastcrow
August 30th, 2010, 05:39 PM
Yeah, the key is that she doesn't fear it, and therefore finds out how truly simple it is.

Just some responses- some who have tried to force Windows 7 on me have called me an evangelist as I asserted my OS choice. I certainly wouldn't consider myself forceful or obsessive as they were. It seems the hype has revived a community spirit around Windows which is unnecessary. Anyway, I am OS agnostic. I only use what's visibly best and look beyond what I see on TV. So, while I know how to install Linux and invite people to try it on my computer, in the end it will always just be an OS. The applications for my multimedia work are the primary reason I use it.

I find it ironic that a consumer should be called an evangelist for expressing his satisfaction with a superior product, while a bigot who puts someone down for their personal choices is seen as the logical one. I'm entitled to have an opinion at all on operating systems, especially when I've used the current ones extensively, aren't I?

And these aren't geeks, just people who get sucked into the ads. Anyway, all negativity aside, I don't really care what anyone else uses, except in the case that they're in pain, wasting their time with unnecessary issues, and I know Linux will suit their needs. I always assist them and learn what they need first, and lend a hand in getting familiar. It's really not as big a deal people make it out to be.

I think we should stop patronizing people, in the unnatural case we end up talking about computers.

murderslastcrow
August 30th, 2010, 05:48 PM
2 small notes. By the people who don't care, I mean the people who never sign up to the forum and probably don't really have any opinion on it except that it's fast and pretty.

Also, I don't have to orient people with Ubuntu most of the time. It's kind of self explanatory to most people, although sometimes I point or give small explanations. Ubuntu is hardly confusing. I think hits you like a somewhat annoying moth is more accurate than a semi truck. I only say this from my experience with non techy elderly people. Maybe people are less anal about user interfaces in Utah, I dunno'.

Bachstelze
August 30th, 2010, 06:50 PM
It seems the hype has revived a community spirit around Windows which is unnecessary.

How is it any more unnecessary than a community spirit around Ubuntu?

murderslastcrow
August 30th, 2010, 07:12 PM
I actually thought that right after typing it. Some parts of the Windows community are far more tolerant towards operating systems than you'd think. Many admit openly that a certain game or program is all that keeps them from Linux within pro Windows communities.

You're quite right that they have the right to boast as much as anyone else, and relish their community, but as I never force them, they should respect my decisions. Also, I don't know about any of you, but if people are always so critical of Linux in the mainstream, I certainly don't think Windows 7 deserves any degree of reverence. They're all just operating systems, and our observations should be free from bias or ignorant dismissal.

But again, I suppose these people are not the common case. I find it interesting actually how much fragmentation there is in the Windows community over versions, not just dissatisfaction. But enough about Windows, back to your real life experience with other Linux users.

fatality_uk
August 30th, 2010, 10:42 PM
The fact is that unless you are "into" tech, most people wont care!
Ask most people what chip/mobo & os runs their TV, washing machine, car or PC and they will look at you like you need medication.