Sim-Locked Phones

[Shibblet]

I have recently returned the Dell Streak because it was locked to AT&T. I read about the new Dell Aero, and it is locked to AT&T as well.

I have read about the upcoming Dell Thunder. Is this going to be sim-locked to AT&T? If so, why?

Locked cell phones are a tragedy. Apple did it with the iPhone & AT&T. Dell has done this with AT&T. Some people don't want to go with AT&T, or cannot use AT&T's service in their area. Locking a phone to a specific carrier only keeps people from buying great equipment. By "sim-locking" a phone, you are taking away a customers freedom of choice. Keep in mind that customer is CHOOSING to buy your product!

Please explain why people lock phones to carriers. I can see no reason for doing this. Especially when the phone can be purchased through the manufacturer.

Could you imagine if you went and bought a new television, but it was "signal-locked" to either DirecTV or Dish? Or the new car that you purchased was "gas-locked" to either Texaco or Chevron? Obviously people wouldn't put up with that.

So why do we accept that it's okay on a cell phone? Apple went to court over "jailbreaking", and now it has been considered legal to allow people to do whatever they want to with their device. Unlock it or Jailbreak it.

I'm sure in a few weeks someone will have figured out how to unlock the Dell Streak and Aero, and then we can all download our hacks, and **** on the establishment. But this isn't what people want. I believe in the goodness of a people, and that a person will only do something like "hack" a phone only if they have no other choice. i.e. Jailbreaking and Unlocking the iPhone.

A majority of people want to do things legitimately. There are always some hackers out there who are going to hack the device no matter what. For the most part, people would be happy with just having an unlock code.

I like Dell products. I have ordered many computers, and I really liked the Streak. But finding out that I cannot use it at all is very disappointing. Wouldn't they prefer keep a happy Dell customer, and not have to send one elsewhere?

[formaldehyde_spoon]

Obviously they want you to use their network; it's money in their pocket.
We still have phones locked to networks in Australia, but the network will unlock it for free if you ask them (well, 3 will anyway, don't know about the others but I doubt 3 would do it unless they had to by law so I assume the others have to obey the same law).

[aysiu]

Unfortunately, we're doubly screwed over in the States.

Not only are almost all phones sim-locked, but most of the networks are not compatible with each other anyway. So even if you get an unlocked AT&T phone, you can use it on T-Mobile (which is also GSM), but you can't use 3G on T-Mobile. And you can't use it on Verizon or Sprint (since they're CDMA and not GSM).

[Dr. C]

Most GSM SIM locked phones can be unlocked, but the best option is to buy an unlocked phone and then add the telco SIM. Yes one pays for the phone upfront but the savings in not taking a 3 year contract with the telco more than pay for the phone in many cases.

As to why do telco's lock phones? To lock the customer into an expensive long term contract.

[LMP900]

I hope that the upcoming Nokia N9 will be capable of both T-Mobile and AT&T 3G. The unlocked N900 unfortunately doesn't support AT&T 3G. If it supports AT&T 3G and has the same camera sensor, optics, and flash of the N8, I will be buying the unlocked phone when it's released despite being a very early stage MeeGo device.

[earthpigg]

Please explain why people lock phones to carriers.

because they can.

Everything described in this thread is outlawed in the EU.

[gletob]

One of the reasons for carrier locks is so you get a 600 cellphone for 99.99

Carrier Subsidies

[Vakman]

I think that the Dell Thunder will begin as a SIM Locked device to AT&T but then they will release another model of it (essentially the same model) to a country, like the one I live in, I hope, Canada, and that will likely be able to be bought off contract and here that usually means it is SIM Unlocked, except in the case of the Bell Vibrant but another story for another time...
You have already heard reasons for your other parts so I won't re-iterate what they said.


Unfortunately, we're doubly screwed over in the States.

Not only are almost all phones sim-locked, but most of the networks are not compatible with each other anyway. So even if you get an unlocked AT&T phone, you can use it on T-Mobile (which is also GSM), but you can't use 3G on T-Mobile. And you can't use it on Verizon or Sprint (since they're CDMA and not GSM).

Yeah, it is quite bad in the US. Every major carrier uses different bands and not only that often different technologies completely. In Canada, Rogers/Telus/Bell all use the same bands and same technologies, Bell and Telus originally used CDMA at some point and some smaller carriers still use those networks. Wind Mobile has emerged now as well using T-Mobile's bands, which is quite annoying to me as I want a standard like in Europe...


I hope that the upcoming Nokia N9 will be capable of both T-Mobile and AT&T 3G. The unlocked N900 unfortunately doesn't support AT&T 3G. If it supports AT&T 3G and has the same camera sensor, optics, and flash of the N8, I will be buying the unlocked phone when it's released despite being a very early stage MeeGo device.

Yes, this will be a great device for world travellers because of the penta-band support. I would prefer it to run Android but I have not really seen MeeGo, and that would be my second choice even at this point so it is to early to tell if MeeGo will just become a niche OS. But it is Nokia and therefore you will likely be able to buy it unlocked.


because they can.

Everything described in this thread is outlawed in the EU.

Which is amazing :)

[Shibblet]

One of the reasons for carrier locks is so you get a 600 cellphone for 99.99

Carrier Subsidies

See, that's what I thought to begin with. But when you get the $99.00 phone they lock you into a 2 year contract, at minimum. So, that is what ends up paying for the phone.

Sim locking the phone is ridiculous.

If you pay full price for the phone, it is supposed to work on any GSM or CDMA network you choose. The problem is not the technology, it's locked on purpose.

Doesn't Dell/Apple/Samsung/Motorola lose money by having to tell people they can't use their phone, and it's only available at AT&T? Why can't I buy an iPhone directly from the Apple store? It's a bunch of horse-poop.

I'm glad it's been outlawed in EU. I hope they outlaw that crap in the US as well.

[3rdalbum]

Never buy a SIM-locked or network-locked phone.

I'm currently in the middle of a case against Virgin Mobile. I bought a prepaid Nokia e63 from them that should be able to be unlocked if you recharge with $80 of credit. Virgin eventually gave me the unlock code, which... doesn't work. Well, it reports "SIM restriction off", but if you put any other non-Virgin SIM card in, it won't work.

Virgin now tell me that there's a second code I need to put in, but when they gave me that second code it just says "Not allowed".

Obviously the phone has been locked in such a way that it can't be unlocked.

So: There are NO GUARANTEES that ANY locked phone will be able to be unlocked! So DON'T buy them unless you're sure you're not going to change carrier!

[mendhak]

because they can.

Everything described in this thread is outlawed in the EU.
You can get SIM locked phones in the UK, France and Germany; NL too I believe. I think it's only Singapore that bans SIM locking.

[smellyman]

Everything is unlocked in Hong Kong. :)

[gemmakaru]

Everything is unlocked in Hong Kong. :)

I'm going round to your place. It's looting time! /joke.

[Ozor Mox]

I only buy SIM-free phones now, and then get a SIM-only contract through any network I want. Because you've already paid the upfront cost of the unlocked phone, you can get a 30 day or 1 year contract that gives you tons of stuff for your money.

I started doing this because I had a bad experience with my previous phone, which was locked and branded. The modifications that the network had done to the phone's software had completely messed it up. I doubt I'll ever forget the star, 3, call button, power button combo to hard reset it!

I'm in the UK, where it is easy to get SIM-free phones. I've heard it is difficult in the US.

[CharlesA]

Newegg stocks unlocked phones. :)

But yeah, the people in the states got screwed. At least I am happy with Tmobile (since most cell coverage sucks big time where I live, even Verzon and Sprint). Tmobile was the cheapest.. and it works for the most part.

[whiskeylover]

Yeah, it is quite bad in the US. Every major carrier uses different bands and not only that often different technologies completely. In Canada, Rogers/Telus/Bell all use the same bands and same technologies, Bell and Telus originally used CDMA at some point and some smaller carriers still use those networks. Wind Mobile has emerged now as well using T-Mobile's bands, which is quite annoying to me as I want a standard like in Europe...

And that is why I refuse to sign up with Verizon even though they have better coverage. They refuse to conform to standards.



If you pay full price for the phone, it is supposed to work on any GSM or CDMA network you choose. The problem is not the technology, it's locked on purpose.


Not necessarily. Most CDMA phone do not have a slot for the SIM card.

[t0p]

You can get SIM locked phones in the UK, France and Germany; NL too I believe. I think it's only Singapore that bans SIM locking.

Although many/most handsets come SIM-locked in EU countries, the law says that the networks must provide unlock codes if the customer asks for it. If you bought the phone quite recently, the network will demand you pay some money to get the code - you are after all snatching the food from their babies' lips - but if you've had the phone for some time, the network will generally provide the code for free.

In the UK, Vodafone contract phones are very often SIM-unlocked when you buy them. Vodafone don't care if you want to use that phone on a different network - you've already signed a 18 or 24-month contract, so they get paid anyway. But prepay/pay-as-you-go phones are (almost) always SIM-locked - the networks subsidise the cost of phones and make their money back through top-ups. So do you want very expensive PAYG phones that come SIM-unlocked, or cheap phones that you have to jump through humps if you want it unlocked? You pays yer money and makes yer choice...

[RiceMonster]

Please explain why people lock phones to carriers. I can see no reason for doing this. Especially when the phone can be purchased through the manufacturer.

The reason I can think of is because tt will make people reconsider switching because they would have to buy a whole new phone. It might also draw people to a certain provider because they are the only one to carry said phone, which is locked into their network.


Could you imagine if you went and bought a new television, but it was "signal-locked" to either DirecTV or Dish? Or the new car that you purchased was "gas-locked" to either Texaco or Chevron? Obviously people wouldn't put up with that.

So why do we accept that it's okay on a cell phone? Apple went to court over "jailbreaking", and now it has been considered legal to allow people to do whatever they want to with their device. Unlock it or Jailbreak it.

Totally agreed. I would prefer the way it's done with anything else, like televisions, inwhich I would buy a phone and then go to a provider and get a plan. In Canada, the vast majority of phones are locked, however some can be bought unlocked.

I remember a few years ago it was not possible to change providers and retain the same phone number in Canada, but luckily that was changed.