Linux Professional Institute and Canonical Announce Ubuntu Professional Certification

[newbie2]

The Linux Professional Institute and Canonical Ltd. sponsor of the award-winning Ubuntu operating system, jointly announced the development of a certification exam for the Ubuntu distribution...

(Boston, USA: April 4, 2006) - The Linux Professional Institute (LPI), (http://www.lpi.org), the world's premier Linux certification organization, and Canonical Ltd. (http://www.canonical.com), sponsor of the award-winning Ubuntu operating system, jointly announced the development of a certification exam for the Ubuntu distribution. This certification exam will enable qualified candidates to demonstrate specific expertise in the professional use of Ubuntu (http://www.ubuntu.com). The certification exam will be launched at Johannesburg, South Africa, May 16 - 19, 2006.
http://www.linuxpr.com/releases/8623.html
8)

[bjweeks]

Am I the only one who thinks certs are stupid?

[helpme]

Am I the only one who thinks certs are stupid?
No, there's probably more than one person in the world who doesn't have a clue.

[freedomforme]

Am I the only one who thinks certs are stupid?
Nope! Cram and pass a test and you are the master...yeah right! I remember when the answers to the exams used to be shared among the campus nerds....too funny! :)

[Darkriser]

Am I the only one who thinks certs are stupid?

No, many people do. BUT - certificates are very important for people who have to decide but don't have any clue, don't understand the problem and don't have knowledge. These "right people on right places" simply need certificates. Sad but true. #-o

[newbie2]

No, many people do. BUT - certificates are very important for people who have to decide but don't have any clue, don't understand the problem and don't have knowledge. These "right people on right places" simply need certificates. Sad but true. #-o
yep...it is the same with school certificates i think.. trying to get a job with or without a certificate makes (still) a difference in my country... ](*,)

[Virogenesis]

Personaly I would get a certificate because of the extra work you''d get like a redhat certificate is considered quite high in the server market if you went for a job dealing with redhat servers its going to look impressive.

A mysql certificate will also look impressive and as a freelance programmer you'll be able to stick the mysql logo on the your bussiness card and not get sued

[nocturn]

Am I the only one who thinks certs are stupid?

I'll second that.

[Master Shake]

I think certs are stupid... But the people in charge of personnell departments at technology companies who hire people don't and that's the big problem.

[Nixed0]

Cert's used to mean something. I think for me the last certification I valued was the Novell CNE/CNA track, around the early NT4 days. Shortly after that we were slammed with MCSE boot camp junkie's that ruined the value of all tech certifications IMO.

I've held EMC, HP, Microsoft, Novell, Oracle, and RedHat certifications. The only benefit I've ever received from ANY of these has been consulting partnerships with hardware resellers that are forced to have certified people on staff.

A certification is not going to get you a job. If your looking to get into the tech field start, find a company that doesn't pay well and has a ton of diverse ill-manged systems. Work hard, learn a lot, and leave 2-3 years later with more experience than you will ever get with that MCSE paper that landed you a help desk position answering phones.

[bjweeks]

Cert's used to mean something. I think for me the last certification I valued was the Novell CNE/CNA track, around the early NT4 days. Shortly after that we were slammed with MCSE boot camp junkie's that ruined the value of all tech certifications IMO.

I've held EMC, HP, Microsoft, Novell, Oracle, and RedHat certifications. The only benefit I've ever received from ANY of these has been consulting partnerships with hardware resellers that are forced to have certified people on staff.

A certification is not going to get you a job. If your looking to get into the tech field start, find a company that doesn't pay well and has a ton of diverse ill-manged systems. Work hard, learn a lot, and leave 2-3 years later with more experience than you will ever get with that MCSE paper that landed you a help desk position answering phones.

Well said.

[basketcase]

Cert's used to mean something. I think for me the last certification I valued was the Novell CNE/CNA track, around the early NT4 days. Shortly after that we were slammed with MCSE boot camp junkie's that ruined the value of all tech certifications IMO.

I've held EMC, HP, Microsoft, Novell, Oracle, and RedHat certifications. The only benefit I've ever received from ANY of these has been consulting partnerships with hardware resellers that are forced to have certified people on staff.

A certification is not going to get you a job. If your looking to get into the tech field start, find a company that doesn't pay well and has a ton of diverse ill-manged systems. Work hard, learn a lot, and leave 2-3 years later with more experience than you will ever get with that MCSE paper that landed you a help desk position answering phones.
I've always thought they were crap...but when looking for a job, they want that piece of paper. Even though I believe that I possess all necessary qualities and experience, w/o that piece of paper I won't get that better job.

So you sort of have to obtain those pieces of paper, or just work your way up through the corporate ladder.

It also helps that I've taken many of the necessary 'prep' classes at the local Junior college, so pair that with my experience in a live environment (read: my job), I'm plenty qualified, but lacking that piece of paper.

[mangz74]

I too have certs on my wall, and basically thats the only use I have for them for now. You do need them when looking for a job especially if the person on the other side of the desk is a pencil pusher and doesnt know a thing about computers. To them certs proves that you really do know something, which is not really true sometimes. For some, having certs give you a feeling of accomplishment but you could always get that from somewhere else without spending a cent. :P

[briancurtin]

certifications often are a certification that your *** is getting fired if you dont know what you are doing. ive seen this several times. someone gets a certification in LKSJDF (yeah thats random text) and when they cant support LKSJDF at least like 98% of the time, they get the boot.

i agree with those firings. if you go out of your way to take a class and specialize in something, but you dont know it forwards and backwards, try again somewhere else on someone elses dime.

ALSO, if you bust your *** and work hard at your certifications, and can properly do your job relating to that certification, i applaud you. thats not a sarcastic applause either. i come off as harsh on this topic all the time, but its really my stance, and i applaud good hard work.

[Nixed0]

I've always thought they were crap...but when looking for a job, they want that piece of paper. Even though I believe that I possess all necessary qualities and experience, w/o that piece of paper I won't get that better job.

So you sort of have to obtain those pieces of paper, or just work your way up through the corporate ladder.

It also helps that I've taken many of the necessary 'prep' classes at the local Junior college, so pair that with my experience in a live environment (read: my job), I'm plenty qualified, but lacking that piece of paper.

I understand what your saying, I've spoken to other people that feel the same way as you. I don't think they all are completely useless, but it's definitely not worth it if someone is pursuing a certification thinking that's what's going to land that tech job. Which is what the advertisements, salary calculators, and training facilities lead people to believe.

Take a look at monster.com for example. Searching across the US:

A search for "linux administrator" returns more than 1000 results. (1099 on hotjobs.com)
http://http://jobsearch.monster.com/jobsearch.asp?cy=us&q=linux%20administrator&re=112&refine=1 (http://jobsearch.monster.com/jobsearch.asp?cy=us&q=linux%20administrator&re=112&refine=1)

A search for "RHCE" returns 71 results. ( 42 jobs on hotjobs.com)
http://http://jobsearch.monster.com/jobsearch.asp?cy=us&q=RHCE&re=112&refine=1 (http://jobsearch.monster.com/jobsearch.asp?cy=us&q=RHCE&re=112&refine=1)

A search for "LPI Linux" returns 32 results. Note only 7 different companies. ( 3 jobs on hotjobs.com)
http://http://jobsearch.monster.com/jobsearch.asp?cy=us&q=lpi%20linux&re=112&refine=1 (http://jobsearch.monster.com/jobsearch.asp?cy=us&q=lpi%20linux&re=112&refine=1)

A search for "ubuntu" returns 5 results. (1 job on hotjobs.com)
http://http://jobsearch.monster.com/jobsearch.asp?cy=us&q=ubuntu&re=112&refine=1 (http://jobsearch.monster.com/jobsearch.asp?cy=us&q=ubuntu&re=112&refine=1)

[ubuntu27]

This is the OFFICIAL Anouncement ABout ubuntu's certificate:

http://www.ubuntu.com/news/ubuntucert

[sapo]

Am I the only one who thinks certs are stupid?
Nope, i dont have any at all.

[DigitalDuality]

The tech world is wierd and always leaves one in question i find.

Do i start hacking away at 13 yrs old and just become super experienced? Make it my hobby, my job, my passion?

Do i get certified?

Do i get a degree?

Depending on where you go for a job.. all of these can hurt you, and help you.

The corporate world smiles greatly on certifications and degrees. When it comes to hiring the want a formalized process as much as possible. Certifications and degree's throw up flags that you could possibly be what they are looking for.

On the other note, there's lots of places that absolutely despise certifications and degrees. There tends to be a bias that "any ******* with money and time" can pass a test, and that it is of little proof they can perform applying their knowledge in real world situations.

I also see a bias between those who are certified, have degrees, and those who don't. And their reactions are rooted in self preserverence and insecurity.

The man with no degree, and no certification.. but is damned good at what he does. Makes plenty of money, and has worked his way to where he's at in the world, will at times spit at the idea of people with certifications and degrees. It's a two sided issue. One is the realistic approach like i mentioned above, it doesn't prove they can apply themselves in the real world. Two, isn't so realistic but more of a defense mechanism. If i was 30, 40, or even 50 years old getting alot of money.. some kid with a degree or a certification threatens me.. and my job. I have no degree. I'm getting paid alot more. If the kid can do what he says he can do, he can replace me at a fraction of the cost.

On the flip side, you have those with degree's and certifications. They worked hard, studied, and either paid or owe a ton of money because of their education and certification processes. To spit at their effort, is a slap in the face to these people. They feel they've done everything "the world" has asked them to. They worked hard, they paid their money, it paid off when they recieved a piece of paper (diploma, certification).. and they may or may not have a good deal of experience as well. For someone to tell them that certifications and diploma's mean nothing is an insult. Not only is it an insult but if taken to heart... they will feel they went the wrong path altogether and no one decided to clue them in (to some degree).

Bottom line is, everyone defends their own place in this world.

I for one welcome the oppurtunity for people to be Ubuntu certified if they so wish. Different paths for different people. At the end of the day, all that matters is "can you do the job".

Whether relying on experience, education, or certification to get your foot in the door (or a combination of these things) is irrelevant.

I, for one, am studying for my LPI. I will also be getting the Ubuntu tackon. After that i'll work on my RHCT or RHCE (we'll see). I already have a B.S. in Telecommunications. I've been doing mostly Windows work and frankly i'm tired of it..and i feel teaching myself in a structured manner and having a goal to get a certification is a good way for me to learn..and a good way for me to get my foot in the door somewhere, start from the bottom again and work my way back up.

[bjweeks]

The thing is a degree says I can learn and I'm not a dumbass. All a cert says is I know the command to update [enter os here] so you should hire me. If I was hireing I would look at the people with degrees or experience or both.


Do i start hacking away at 13 yrs old and just become super experienced? Make it my hobby, my job, my passion?


:mrgreen:

[DigitalDuality]

The thing is a degree says I can learn and I'm not a dumbass. All a cert says is I know the command to update [enter os here] so you should hire me. If I was hireing I would look at the people with degrees or experience or both.



:mrgreen:

I personally have never taken a cert test, and frankly i don't have much money to play with. I'm studying my butt off for the LPI and i still feel i have a long way to go. I dunno, it doesn't seem like a walk in the park to me.


And i think it's really unfair to criticize the quality of certs as a whole. Criticize the individual cert programs if you must. Take a look at Cisco's. Not exactly easy, especially the higher up that food chain you go.

[bjweeks]

I personally have never taken a cert test, and frankly i don't have much money to play with. I'm studying my butt off for the LPI and i still feel i have a long way to go. I dunno, it doesn't seem like a walk in the park to me.


And i think it's really unfair to criticize the quality of certs as a whole. Criticize the individual cert programs if you must. Take a look at Cisco's. Not exactly easy, especially the higher up that food chain you go.

I guess if your job is to work on cisco routers ALL day then it makes sense but I don't think every Os needs it's own. If I'm hireing somebody to run my IT shop I exepct him to be able to deal with anything the company needs and if he doesn't know he keeds to learn. I don't see how certs prepare somebody for that.

[beameup]

This just caught my eye while looking at one of the job postings for a Linux System admin

Please reply ONLY IF YOU MEET THE ABOVE QUALIFICATIONS by sending an updated word document resume, along with your rate requirements.

Kind of ironic anyway.


I understand what your saying, I've spoken to other people that feel the same way as you. I don't think they all are completely useless, but it's definitely not worth it if someone is pursuing a certification thinking that's what's going to land that tech job. Which is what the advertisements, salary calculators, and training facilities lead people to believe.

Take a look at monster.com for example. Searching across the US:

A search for "linux administrator" returns more than 1000 results. (1099 on hotjobs.com)
http://http://jobsearch.monster.com/jobsearch.asp?cy=us&q=linux%20administrator&re=112&refine=1 (http://jobsearch.monster.com/jobsearch.asp?cy=us&q=linux%20administrator&re=112&refine=1)

A search for "RHCE" returns 71 results. ( 42 jobs on hotjobs.com)
http://http://jobsearch.monster.com/jobsearch.asp?cy=us&q=RHCE&re=112&refine=1 (http://jobsearch.monster.com/jobsearch.asp?cy=us&q=RHCE&re=112&refine=1)

A search for "LPI Linux" returns 32 results. Note only 7 different companies. ( 3 jobs on hotjobs.com)
http://http://jobsearch.monster.com/jobsearch.asp?cy=us&q=lpi%20linux&re=112&refine=1 (http://jobsearch.monster.com/jobsearch.asp?cy=us&q=lpi%20linux&re=112&refine=1)

A search for "ubuntu" returns 5 results. (1 job on hotjobs.com)
http://http://jobsearch.monster.com/jobsearch.asp?cy=us&q=ubuntu&re=112&refine=1 (http://jobsearch.monster.com/jobsearch.asp?cy=us&q=ubuntu&re=112&refine=1)

[htinn]

My thinking on the matter is that these tests are good waste of time for otherwise troublesome teenagers (and not really intended for burned-out adults). :D

[DigitalDuality]

I guess if your job is to work on cisco routers ALL day then it makes sense but I don't think every Os needs it's own. If I'm hireing somebody to run my IT shop I exepct him to be able to deal with anything the company needs and if he doesn't know he keeds to learn. I don't see how certs prepare somebody for that.
I've never looked at certs as preparation for a job.

I've always viewed them as tests certifying your "knowledge" in a given realm.

A certification, like a diploma, is meaningless if you cannot apply that knowledge. It's nothing more than a flag to get your foot in the door of a job, it says nothing about how you will perform in that job.

Certs and diplomas to me communicate that the individuals works to improve themselves, that they are willing to work in order to learn to achieve a goal. Regardless of what the cert or diploma is in.

If i'm interviewing a guy for a job, why should i hire him? Solely b/c he talks a good game? B/c he knows key words and vague concepts enough to b.s. an interview? In some regards i am that type of person. I've never been turned down once getting an interview. That's the one thing i do pride myself on, is my utter ability to ******** people. That being said, i'm petrified of making an *** of myself and getting a job and sucking at what i do as well.

I dunno, a cert doesn't prove anything. No more than some johnny come lately claiming he's got experience out of the yin yang, no more than a diploma. But each of these things in their own way communicate to a certain degree your knowledge and personality type.

I just tire of both sides knocking each other in order to further justify their place in this world. People need to get off the high horse and quit looking down at people merely b/c they go about it a different way.

I know "certs" are 1337, just like a GUI isn't. So what? If the person can get the job done, and that's how they decided to go about teaching themselves, what difference does it make?

[K.Mandla]

I'd be willing to get a certificate, just for my own edification.

I'm not a technician or a administrator or anything like that. And I probably wouldn't want those jobs anyway. I'm an editor, and I probably always will be.

But for my purposes, it would be a learning experience, and it would let me feel like I had done something aside from sit and peck away at my laptop. I'd feel less like a hobbyist and more like I really understand what's going on, so to speak.

I suppose it's like anything else in life: It's what you make of it.

[Kapre]

I think certs are stupid... But the people in charge of personnell departments at technology companies who hire people don't and that's the big problem.

Amen to that Bro.

Even though you tell the hiring people (as shown on your resume) that you know this and that...they will still ask for your cert. ](*,)

[DigitalDuality]

Amen to that Bro.

Even though you tell the hiring people (as shown on your resume) that you know this and that...they will still ask for your cert. ](*,)

Maybe, just maybe this is a crazy idea....

But a cert on a resume communicates more to me that joe blow saying "hey i know ubuntu".

[htinn]

This is why good IT personnel managers arrange for applicants to be tested under their own conditions. You really *can't* rely on some piece of paper.

[mips]

Certs are just another way to generate money and fool the dumb...

[joshuapurcell]

I have what I think is a great job in the "tech industry" working with Linux on a daily basis, and I have a BS degree that I feel has not helped me near as much as what I would have hoped it would in the knowledge department when it comes to performing my job duties. Why did I get the degree? For the simple fact that it is 99% of the time required for any worthwhile job, including the job I have now.

Given my take on the value of my degree, it may be weird to think that I'm sold on the process of getting Ubuntu certified through the LPI... but I'm going to start working towards that goal and hopefully have it complete by the end of the year at the latest.

Why would I want to go through this trouble? Because I think that it would actually teach me a thing or two about not only the process of getting certified (in case I want to start on the internal path to certification in my company), but also as a way to somehow support Ubuntu in gaining corporate adoption, however small of a step it would be.

I think Ubuntu is the best Linux distribution available (personal, corporate, or otherwise), and out of all the posts in this thread up to this point I haven't read anyone saying how exactly a certification program can hurt this distribution... I certainly don't think it can do anything but help. I'll buy in because of the benefits, not because some people rightly believe that a certification doesn't necessarily translate into a knowledgeable and experienced hard worker.

[doobit]

I probably wouldn't go to a medical doctor who doesn't have a certification. I know guys who know a lot about cars, but I'd rather go to a mechanic who has a certification on my make and model. I've been a video editor for more than 20 years, but it wasn't until I got that first meaningless award that people started to show some respect. The paper means something on a psychological level to those who employ you, even if it doesn't really represent your actual level of experience.

[saintj0n]

For me, I personally think certs are an IT stigma. If you go to a job interview, you will hear the same kind od answer to the same kind of questions. Many companies try to sift through the posers and the real -deal techies by the number of cards they carry in their wallet. The value of real world skills has been completed downplayed. That is why having a buddy who works where you are trying to get a job is so important. Credibility is the currency of today's job market. Get experience, network with everyone you can, be careful how you invest your time and money on training products. I got burned on a $1500 "can't fail" CCNA bootcamp. I will say though, I value the knowledge I learned from the boot camp more than my micro$oft certs. Just because I didn't pass doesn't mean I don't have a great skill. I have gotten jobs in Cisco just by answering questions about Cisco during the interview.

[starscalling]

i just gotta weigh in here
i'm looking to get certified myself. not so i'm some uuber employable guy thats a great linux guru - but because i need to be exposed to situations that ive not come across to date. in my own personal experience ive not a lot of problems solving the usual, nor the mostly unusual. but i need a more in-depth knowlege - and quite frankly i dont want to go mcse or rhel route. therefore i'm gonna do the lpi + ubuntu certs.

[macogw]

i just gotta weigh in here
i'm looking to get certified myself. not so i'm some uuber employable guy thats a great linux guru - but because i need to be exposed to situations that ive not come across to date. in my own personal experience ive not a lot of problems solving the usual, nor the mostly unusual. but i need a more in-depth knowlege - and quite frankly i dont want to go mcse or rhel route. therefore i'm gonna do the lpi + ubuntu certs.

You learn by doing. Studying for LPI means reading a book and memorizing some commands from the book, usually. Getting the list of topics covered and going out and hacking away at them will teach you much more...and you'll still end up prepared for the test.

I do want to get LPIC-1 soon. I went to a study session for it over the summer and was told to shut up and give others a chance to answer. I'm a command line jockey, I couldn't help it :P I didn't know all of it though...file system attributes are a neat thing. chattr +i could be used for some mean jokes...or to keep users from breaking things.