Reminded why our library uses Ubuntu!

[marianlibrarian]

Unfortunately, I am in the process of turning one of our staff computers from Ubuntu to (barf) winders xp. Because, the one program I have to have to run our library is a cataloging program called eZcat and it ONLY runs on a windows machine. I tried 4 different versions of Ubuntu and Wine. The program installs but as soon as I click the Finish button the same error occurs. Anyway, I gave up. I had to get a full version of XP home not the upgrade. It took about 1.5 hours to install from the CD and now I find out that the stewpid thing doesn't install Ethernet drivers. Now I have to open up the case of my computer and get some kind of serial number from the mother board and then search the internet with this number to locate the ethernet drivers.
](*,):evil: If I didn't have to have ms xp in this case - I wouldn't.

I recently installed two machines with Ubuntu 10.? and 9.10 and each took no more than half an hour from putting the CD in the tray and having a machine ready for work. I do remember the headaches I had with 6.06 - my first experience with Ubuntu. However, I had help on this forum and I wanted to learn and I desperately needed to save money for our library and Ubuntu was there for us.

Ok, my anti microstink rant is over for this morning. Thank you for your patience and understanding. I love Ubuntu.\\:D/

[keithpeter]

Hello marianlibrarian

Sympathise with XP install. My recycled thinkpad installs a minimal Gnome in about 45 minutes. Wifi works, suspend works, FN+F4 and FN+F3 work, hibernate won't wake up properly but that's a known issue.

XP dual boots on the same laptop and takes over an hour. Best yet, it updates itself, installs service pack 3, and then the wifi driver stops working. Its a known issue with thinkpads.... I'm having to scour the net looking for driver help (the irony)

Edit: just read your signature, which answered the question I was about to ask! So how will lenders consult the index if it is on a windows machine?

[LowSky]

You could have install Windows in a VM, and then run that one app from there.

[sydbat]

Unfortunately, I am in the process of turning one of our staff computers from Ubuntu to (barf) winders xp. Because, the one program I have to have to run our library is a cataloging program called eZcat and it ONLY runs on a windows machine. I tried 4 different versions of Ubuntu and Wine. The program installs but as soon as I click the Finish button the same error occurs. Anyway, I gave up. I had to get a full version of XP home not the upgrade. It took about 1.5 hours to install from the CD and now I find out that the stewpid thing doesn't install Ethernet drivers. Now I have to open up the case of my computer and get some kind of serial number from the mother board and then search the internet with this number to locate the ethernet drivers.
](*,):evil: If I didn't have to have ms xp in this case - I wouldn't.

I recently installed two machines with Ubuntu 10.? and 9.10 and each took no more than half an hour from putting the CD in the tray and having a machine ready for work. I do remember the headaches I had with 6.06 - my first experience with Ubuntu. However, I had help on this forum and I wanted to learn and I desperately needed to save money for our library and Ubuntu was there for us.

Ok, my anti microstink rant is over for this morning. Thank you for your patience and understanding. I love Ubuntu.\\:D/Have you contacted the company that makes eZcat (http://www.booksys.com/v3/contactus/)? They might be able to help you out in some way.

[marianlibrarian]

Hi, downloading motherboard drivers - and while I am waiting...

I have contacted the company that makes eZcat. It is a 3rd party distribution that works with my Library Book Systems database software. Ironically, my library database is on a Debian server sitting in my office. At this time the company that makes eZcat has no plans to make a Linux version. :(

It has been a long long long time since I have done a winders OS install (not upgrade) I had forgotten how really quite stewpid it is. I guess it justifies the techies that are needed to get it up and running and maintained.

Sigh!

Anyway, I will play with an Ubuntu install later today, so I can feel better.

P.S. An explanation of eZcat and why it is important to us:
When we have books, cds, dvds, audio books, etc., that are purchased or donated or whatever, they have to be processed. This means that all the publication, version, series, copyright date, etc., information must be entered. These are called MARC records. Every book / library item has one. It is the digitized version of the old card catalog that us old folks remember. Anyway, if the item does not have a proper MARC record entered, then you can't find the book in the database.

eZcat automizes this process. MARC records are HUGE. and if I had to enter every MARC record by hand.... it wouldn't be very nice.

Hope that helps and thanks for the empathy. I feel better already. :)

[ussndmac]

I would second the question: "Have you tried to run it under Virtual Box?"

[Grenage]

To be fair, you are installing a 10 year-old OS, and comparing its native driver support and features with a modern OS.

If you'd installed something remotely modern, it would likely have been fine.

[Legendary_Bibo]

You could have install Windows in a VM, and then run that one app from there.

VMs are a huge drain on a computers' resources. XP takes 512mb of RAM just to run comfortably with all the bloat. I stripped mine down and gave it a gig of RAM just so it was as fast as my Ubuntu. I doubt a library computer would be powerful enough unless it's the librarys' "special" computer where it's more powerful than the rest of the computers in the library.

[marianlibrarian]

I would second the question: "Have you tried to run it under Virtual Box?"
Well, since it was asked twice... I have no idea what Virtual Box is.


To be fair, you are installing a 10 year-old OS, and comparing its native driver support and features with a modern OS.

If you'd installed something remotely modern, it would likely have been fine.
That is fairly funny and fair. I began in 2006, searching for an alternative to WinOS. Because MS was no longer supporting Win98 which is the OS that was on all of our computers. I had VERY limited $s. I knew that it would be a horrendous hurdle. I was not disappointed in that respect. Because I chose Ubuntu over MS, I have 5 public access computers instead of 2.

I have been out of touch with windows for over 4 years now. To me remotely modern is --- Ubuntu. :)

[Legendary_Bibo]

Well, since it was asked twice... I have no idea what Virtual Box is.


That is fairly funny and fair. I began in 2006, searching for an alternative to WinOS. Because MS was no longer supporting Win98 which is the OS that was on all of our computers. I had VERY limited $s. I knew that it would be a horrendous hurdle. I was not disappointed in that respect. Because I chose Ubuntu over MS, I have 5 public access computers instead of 2.

I have been out of touch with windows for over 4 years now. To me remotely modern is --- Ubuntu. :)

Virtual Box is a program that lets you run another OS while running your current OS. The thing is that you need a computer with at least 1gb of RAM (If you're running a light OS, and a light OS in the VB). It sits in a window like a normal application. I also think you need a dual core probably if I'm not mistaken. It's very useful so you don't have to dual boot, you can just load up Windows and use it while running your current OS.

You can find the Open source edition (OSE) in the software center or in synaptic. It lets you use remote connectivity

You can find the closed source version on Oracle's site I believe. It supposedly offers better USB support (I use it and I can't get WinXP to recognize my flash drive).

[pricetech]

Virtualization is what I would recommend as well. I've used the OSE version of VirtualBox to run windows XP which I used for various testing and such. Setting it up is a piece of cake. Just make sure you install Guest Additions and don't try to install any drivers under XP.

[rjbl]

P.S. An explanation of eZcat and why it is important to us:
When we have books, cds, dvds, audio books, etc., that are purchased or donated or whatever, they have to be processed. This means that all the publication, version, series, copyright date, etc., information must be entered. These are called MARC records. Every book / library item has one. It is the digitized version of the old card catalog that us old folks remember. Anyway, if the item does not have a proper MARC record entered, then you can't find the book in the database.

eZcat automizes this process. MARC records are HUGE. and if I had to enter every MARC record by hand.... it wouldn't be very nice
LofC MARC Records? How big is your library's catalogued stock? How many accessions pa? I'd be a bit surprised if some k3wl, but kindly, D3wd out here wouldn't be able to bespoke you a database app out of OpenOffice / MySQL. Put out a few feelers, he said naughtily.

PS Hope I got the cool geekspeak right. Nobody flame me if I got it wrong.

[Legendary_Bibo]

P.S. An explanation of eZcat and why it is important to us:
When we have books, cds, dvds, audio books, etc., that are purchased or donated or whatever, they have to be processed. This means that all the publication, version, series, copyright date, etc., information must be entered. These are called MARC records. Every book / library item has one. It is the digitized version of the old card catalog that us old folks remember. Anyway, if the item does not have a proper MARC record entered, then you can't find the book in the database.

eZcat automizes this process. MARC records are HUGE. and if I had to enter every MARC record by hand.... it wouldn't be very nice
LofC MARC Records? How big is your library's catalogued stock? How many accessions pa? I'd be a bit surprised if some k3wl, but kindly, D3wd out here wouldn't be able to bespoke you a database app out of OpenOffice / MySQL. Put out a few feelers, he said naughtily.

PS Hope I got the cool geekspeak right. Nobody flame me if I got it wrong.

You mean like take the code from the Open Office Database thingy and conform it to work with libraries? I would attempt such a dabble, but I don't know any bit of Java.

[rjbl]

I'm guessing we could be looking at no more than an application of OOoo Database. Can't see, off the top of my head, that any code hacking need necessarily be involved. We can get the MARC record structure and if LofC (?) distribute the records in a standard importable format, like CSV or one of the traditional PC database standards then it should be quite a straightforward implement. Need some numbers from MarianLibrarian to scale it right and the design would need to be sensitive to how the system would need to be used. Could be a nice friendly Project out here in Ubuntu UserWorld. Wadyathink?

ATB
rjbl
thelovekins@yahoo.co.uk

ok, so I am now going to get spammed until my eyes fall out. So what?

[Legendary_Bibo]

I'm guessing we could be looking at no more than an application of OOoo Database. Can't see, off the top of my head, that any code hacking need necessarily be involved. We can get the MARC record structure and if LofC (?) distribute the records in a standard importable format, like CSV or one of the traditional PC database standards then it should be quite a straightforward implement. Need some numbers from MarianLibrarian to scale it right and the design would need to be sensitive to how the system would need to be used. Could be a nice friendly Project out here in Ubuntu UserWorld. Wadyathink?

ATB
rjbl
thelovekins@yahoo.co.uk

ok, so I am now going to get spammed until my eyes fall out. So what?

I'll take a look at the source and see if I can understand any of it, and see what I can do.

[grahammechanical]

Hi. How does eZcat convert MARC records into a form that can be put into the library database? Do you input the book's ISBN number or does it read the bar code? There are bar code readers in the software centre. Does eZcat produce a file that is then imported into the database? Perhaps a bar code reader could produce the same information in a format that could be imported into the database?

When I switched to Ubuntu I needed to transfer a Lotus Approach database into OpenOffice Base. I exported the Approach file as a spreadsheet and then imported the spreadsheet into Base. What you see as a database is just an interface, a GUI. The actual records are often stored in a format that other programs can read.

Regarding WINE have you tried installing eZcat through a terminal? Doing this will produce a list of all error messages that might help you work out why the installation is failing. I have a publishing company's publication catalogue on CD that is a Windows program but I have it running under WINE. Seeing the error messages that were listed in the terminal helped me work out why the installation was failing. Some of the programs files weren't going into the right folders and I needed certain Microsoft fonts installed on the system. The installation would fail if it could not find those fonts.

Regards

[rjbl]

Just re-read MarianLibrarian's OPs. Not sure that this would be a completely trivial problem. Probably the wrong context. I infer that the Library runs EZCat as part of Atrium - a wider scoped Library Management system running on a Webserver.

Sure library management databases are pretty easy to design and code up. Capture the requirement right and can be done in OOoo quite trivially. In this instance, though, getting an OOoo cataloguing module to suck in the LofC online feed could be challenging and trying to slot a home made module into some other Vendor's software system might prove deeply provocative.

Anyway there are quite a number of Open Source Library Management Systems which run in Linux, like Koha etc

Maybe MarianLibrarian is stuck with XP for other reasons - like she really is stuck with EZCat.

ATB
rjbl

[DoeNietWil]

Have you contacted the company that makes eZcat (http://www.booksys.com/v3/contactus/)? They might be able to help you out in some way.
They seem like a rather small company, make you could make a petition. I'm pretty sure some people here would sign it. It would improve your chances

[mips]

http://koha.org/ -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koha_(software)
http://www.greenstone.org/ -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenstone_(software)

http://www.linux.com/archive/articles/23500
http://www.networkworld.com/columnists/2005/102405internet.html
http://www.filetransit.com/files.php?name=Library_Of_Congress_Cataloging
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6350

[marianlibrarian]

Hmmm...
eZcat - I will try to give a better explanation:

Internet access allows eZcat to help you take advantage of Z39.50 technology by obtaining free MARC 21 records. Search multiple library databases simultaneously (Library of Congress and over 400 other publicly listed libraries) and retrieve cataloging data for all of your library materials (books, video, audio, computer files, etc).

MARC record:
A MARC record is a MA chine-Readable Cataloging record.

Cataloging record:
"Cataloging record" means a bibliographic record, or the information traditionally shown on a catalog card. The record includes (not necessarily in this order): 1) a description of the item, 2) main entry and added entries, 3) subject headings, and 4) the classification or call number. (MARC records often contain much additional information.)

Sample MARC record "To Kill a Mockingbird" by Harper Lee copyright 2010
02234cam 2200277 a 45000010013000000030006000130080041000190100017000 60040004000077019003600117020003100153020002800184 03500750021205000260028708200160031324500640032926 00045003933000025004384900022004635040051004855051 31400536600004101850700002101891830002301912029002 101935ocn423388486OCoLC090629s2010 cau b 001 0 eng  a 2009026311 aDLCcDLCdYDXdSGBdJYJdUABdBTCTA a429024291a472424731a476585448 a9781587656187 (alk. paper) a1587656183 (alk. paper) a(OCoLC)423388486z(OCoLC)429024291z(OCoLC)47242 4731z(OCoLC)47658544800aPS3562.E353bT66 201000a813/.5422200aTo kill a mockingbird /cby Harper Lee ; editor, Don Noble. aPasadena, Calif. :bSalem Press,cc2010. axii, 329 p.;c24 cm.1 aCritical insights aIncludes bibliographical references and index.00tOn To kill a mockingbird /rDon Noble --tBiography of Harper Lee /rEdythe M. McGovern --tThe Paris review perspective /rSasha Weiss --tTo kill a mockingbird : successes and myths /rNancy Grisham Anderson --tMockingbird in context /rGurdip Panesar --t"Were you ever a turtle?" : To kill a mockingbird--casting self as the other /rNeil Heims --tTo kill a mockingbird as an introduction to Faulkner /rMatthew J. Bolton --tThe rise and fall of Atticus Finch /rChristopher Metress --tLawyers, ethics, and To kill a mockingbird /rTim Dare --tGrowing up good in Maycomb /rThomas L. Shaffer --tAtticus Finch and the mad dog : Harper Lee's To kill a mockingbird /rCarolyn Jones --tThe margins of Maycomb : a rereading of To kill a mockingbird /rTeresa Godwin Phelps --t"Fine fancy gentlemen" and "yappy folk" : contending voices in To kill a mockingbird /rTheodore R. Hovet, Grace-Ann Hovet -- Telling it in black and white : the importance of the Africanist presence in To kill a mockingbird /rDiann L. Baecker --tThe female voice in To kill a mockingbird : narrative strategies in film and novel /rDean Shackelford --t"When you finally see them" : the unconquered eye in To kill a mockingbird /rLaurie Champion --tHarper Lee and the destabilization of heterosexuality /rGary Richards.10aLee, Harper.tTo kill a mockingbird.1 aNoble, Donald R. 0aCritical insights.1 aGBVCPb604862059

Who "writes" MARC records? Where do the come from?
Many librarians have chosen to maximize limited resources by acquiring cataloging data rather than creating it themselves. For almost a century they have been able to order sets of catalog cards for their new books from the Library of Congress, or, more recently, from book jobbers.

Others typed their own cards, using the Cataloging in Publication (CIP) data found on the verso of the title page of many books. Librarians also adapted the partial or full cataloging records printed in library journals or in bibliographies.

After the MARC record was developed, libraries shared in the benefits of machine-readable cataloging whether they had an online system or not. The cards, purchased from the Library of Congress or from a jobber, were computer-printed from bibliographic records based on Library of Congress MARC files.

Our library retrieves our MARC records from two sources: The Library of Congress and OCLC WebCat. The Library of Congress offers their MARC information at no cost to us. But their data is usually quite old. Best seller information may take months to become available to public libraries. OCLC Webcat is our main source. Before this we received floppies with each book order and would "import" them into the database.

What is OCLC? From their website.
OCLC is a worldwide library cooperative, owned, governed and sustained by members since 1967. Our public purpose is a statement of commitment to each other—that we will work together to improve access to the information held in libraries around the globe, and find ways to reduce costs for libraries through collaboration.

Our public purpose is to establish, maintain and operate a computerized library network and to promote the evolution of library use, of libraries themselves and of librarianship, and to provide processes and products for the benefit of library users and libraries, including such objectives as increasing availability of library resources to individual library patrons and reducing the rate-of-rise of library per-unit costs, all for the fundamental public purpose of furthering ease of access to and use of the ever-expanding body of worldwide scientific, literary and educational knowledge and information.

I am a director of a small rural public library in a very small rural southern town (population less than 5K). We have approximately 15K items in our library inventory.

I have been here for 5 years. My statistical data says that during the past four (4) years, our usage has increased over 63%. Our funding has dropped almost 30% in the last two (2) years.

Myself and one assistant and one part time assistant are responsible for the integrity of our catalog...
We also clean the toilets, vacuum both stories of our building (including the stairs), we don't have to mow the lawn (yet), maintain a weekly preschool reading program and have an annual summer reading program for all children during the month of June (this year over 900 books were read by children in our little town), and sometimes I need to take the road most traveled like WinXP because I just need to get the job done.

I hope this all makes sense. I had so many interruptions while writing this... it probably is very fragmented. :)

[rjbl]

If there is anything I can do to lend you a hand please don't hesitate to ask; I guess a lot of the community out here could feel the same way.

ATB
rjbl

[Johnsie]

For hardware detection there's no need to be opening up any hardware. Tools like Everest will detect the hardware for you.

Linux and Windows driver/hardware implementation both have their good and bad points. Linux detects more hardware out of the box. However, it is much easier to install new drivers on Windows than it is on Linux. With Windows you just pop in the cd or download a driver, but with Linux if the driver isnt automatically detected you often have to do a lot more work and sometimes in the end the harware will not work. I cannot use WPA on my the wifi card of an eeepc 1001HA because there is no Linux driver that supports it.


I dont think virtualisation is the right solution for this problem. Running two operating systems at the same time is not practical. Running Linux in this situation is like wearing a shoe that doesn't fit. If it doesn't do what you need it to do then it is better to use an operating system that CAN do what you want to do. Fanboyism should never be allowed to get in the way of having a fully working system. You can still use Ubuntu on other machines.


Everest Home Edition (Freeware)
http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/System-Info/Everest-Home-Edition.shtml

Free 30 day trial for Evrest Corportate Edition (you only need 1 day to get the drivers for a machine)
http://www.lavalys.com/support/downloads/archive

[marianlibrarian]

I really appreciate the responses I have received here.

I wish I could be an Ubuntu / Linux purist. My library depends on me doing ALL my jobs as best I can, not just the technical ones. I am limited (very limited) in budget and I am also limited in technical help availability and that includes my own lack of knowledge in some areas. I have to weigh how much it will cost along with how long it will take for me to learn it and how long it will take me to implement it.

I like this Community Cafe. The entire Ubuntu forum is one of the nicest and most helpful forums I have ever experienced. Granted, sometimes it has been like putting out forest fires with little asbestos boots - but somehow answers and kind words helped me get through the problems.
):P

Oh and one more thing... I wish there were more smilies to choose from. :popcorn::KS:lolflag:

[pricetech]

My hat's off to you. I'm trying to think of a way I can help, but sadly I'm not a programmer, nor quite the Linux geek you need to help you out.

I do however support a herd of boxen in a library and I can ask around to see if anyone here can offer any advice from a librarian's perspective.

Meanwhile, I wish you all the success in the world.

[mips]

Ok, time to turn of the suggestions. The OP found it's solution.