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Fri13
August 17th, 2010, 08:00 AM
I have few questions about false information on Ubuntu.com site. Is there a public place where the community can give feedback (other than IRC) directly to marketing people and get actually respond?

The ubuntu.com site gives wrong information what makes Ubuntu community look bad and causes as well harm to whole F/OSS community. In long run it is problem for Ubuntu as well, even it is tried to promote only Ubuntu.

The site looks nice but it remeninds more and more Microsofts sites and especially the "Get The Facts" campaing and so on. So in the end, who is responsible (as a person) from the texts and accuracy of the information on the Canonical from their sites?

More and more the Canonical has been burried as community driven company and it has started to look like "greed company" what tries to stay away from it customers and users.

I have started to get contacts about the false information and directly even lies and I do not even myself know for who they should be pointed.

fluteflute
August 17th, 2010, 08:17 AM
You can report a bug on Launchpad (https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+filebug) if you wish.

AllRadioisDead
August 17th, 2010, 08:39 AM
I have few questions about false information on Ubuntu.com site. Is there a public place where the community can give feedback (other than IRC) directly to marketing people and get actually respond?

The ubuntu.com site gives wrong information what makes Ubuntu community look bad and causes as well harm to whole F/OSS community. In long run it is problem for Ubuntu as well, even it is tried to promote only Ubuntu.

The site looks nice but it remeninds more and more Microsofts sites and especially the "Get The Facts" campaing and so on. So in the end, who is responsible (as a person) from the texts and accuracy of the information on the Canonical from their sites?

More and more the Canonical has been burried as community driven company and it has started to look like "greed company" what tries to stay away from it customers and users.

I have started to get contacts about the false information and directly even lies and I do not even myself know for who they should be pointed.
What exactly are you talking about?

Grenage
August 17th, 2010, 08:45 AM
community driven company

Community used, but driven?

samstreet101
August 17th, 2010, 08:53 AM
I'm not sure I'd agree with you there. Also I don;t see any 'Get the facts' part of the site, even the 'about ubuntu' section seems very well written, in plain, unsychofantic language. What are you specifically referring to when you say lies?

KiwiNZ
August 17th, 2010, 08:55 AM
Canonical is not community driven. Its a private company.

WalmartSniperLX
August 17th, 2010, 08:56 AM
But, Ubuntu is community driven in one form or another.

EDIT: If you're talking about the company then yes it is private however one could say that its major product is community driven.

KiwiNZ
August 17th, 2010, 08:57 AM
Ubuntu Forums is the Canonical owned Official community portal and discussion and support vehicle.

Fri13
August 18th, 2010, 10:44 AM
Community used, but driven?

The original idea of the Canonical was to promote Open Source Software.
The idea was that Canonical is marketing the software behalf of their makers by offering them in own way so people will get them easily and learn about them.

Now Canonical is marketing Open Source Software as own, or as the Ubuntu comminity has developed them. They are marketing the Ubuntu as the OS, not the Linux (kernel). They are marketing Ubuntu as the Desktop, not the GNOME. They are marketing the Ubuntu as the Free Software maker, not the F/OSS community.

In the beginning, Canonical was like a PR and Marketing for F/OSS.

As Example:

" Super-fast and great-looking, Ubuntu is a secure, intuitive operating system that powers desktops, servers, netbooks and laptops. Ubuntu is, and always will be, absolutely free.

Created by the best open-source experts from all over the world, Ubuntu is available in 24 languages and ready for download today."

"Ubuntu is fast, great-looking and easy to take in use. Linux in it is a secure and fast operating system that powers desktops, servers, netbooks and laptops. The GNOME is intuitive and powerfull desktop environment. All the software what Canonical Distributes is, and always will be, absolutely free to use and free as charge.

Created by the best open-source comunities from all over the world and distributes by Canonical, Ubuntu is available in 24 languages and ready for download today."

Almost all the marketing text in the Ubuntu site is for Ubuntu only, dropping away the whole F/OSS community what developes them.
The texts say "Come to contribute to Ubuntu" "Join to Ubuntu community" "Support Ubuntu". As much as it is nice to be in a big Ubuntu community, all the users are still responsible for the original projects and authors who are developing the software and what all distributors are using.

When comparing to other main stream distributors, their message is towards the F/OSS community and not just to themselfs.

"What is the Fedora Project?
The Fedora Project is a partnership of free software community members from around the globe. The Fedora Project builds open source software communities and produces a Linux distribution called "Fedora."

"Our Method
Fedora is a center for innovation in free and open source software, and creates a community where contributors of all kinds -- developers, documenters, artists, system administrators, and other free software and open source enthusiasts -- come together to advance the ecosystem for the benefit of everyone. The Fedora community contributes everything it builds back to the free and open source world and continues to make advances of significance to the broader community, as evidenced by the regular and rapid incorporation of its features into other Linux distributions. Regardless of which Linux distribution you use, you are relying on code developed within the Fedora Project.

Why Is the Fedora Project Different?
We try to always do the right thing, and provide only free and open source software. We will fight to protect and promote solutions that anyone can use and redistribute. To this end, we use only free and open source software to power the Fedora infrastructure itself. With this in mind, all of our developers are focused on working closely with upstream development teams, so everyone can benefit from our work and get access to our changes as soon as possible. Due to the huge amount of innovation that Fedora drives, this focus has had significant and long lasting effects. Some of the recent developments in free and open source software that Fedora has driven include:

"openSUSE 11.3 is finally out! The openSUSE Project is pleased to announce the release of openSUSE 11.3. openSUSE 11.3 includes new versions of GNOME, KDE, OpenOffice.org, Firefox, the Linux kernel, and many, many more updates and improvements. In 11.3 you'll find more than 1,000 open source desktop applications. openSUSE also includes a full suite of server software and a rich selection of open source development tools. Get it today!"

"The openSUSE project is a worldwide effort that promotes the use of Linux everywhere. openSUSE creates one of the world's best Linux distributions, working together in an open, transparent and friendly manner as part of the worldwide Free and Open Source Software community."

And so on.

It is clear that Ubuntu has stepped over the line where it can start controlling the F/OSS world. And it really is scary if Canonical presentivies have presented Canonical as the Microsoft of the Linux.

To somepoint it is always acceptable to say "We". But at somepoint the "We" is wrong when it turns against the whole community and startes presenting the own smaller community as the source. That is how the marketing is used in companies what does not have ethics towards the communities where they work. As for example the Microsoft, it does not develop the software so much, it buyes the companies what developes the software and then it presents them as the Microsoft has invented them (that is acceptable at someway when the smaller company becames part of the main company, but still, developing illusions that the big one is the driven innovator and not the community [competitors as well] where it works).

There are lots of questions at what point the bigger one needs to take care that smaller ones are taken care and mentioned and when grown more among bigger ones, taking care even more that the smaller ones are getting the attention, especially if all own popularity is based to smaller ones work.

Is Ubuntu what it tries to be?

"A person with Ubuntu is open and available to others, affirming of others, does not feel threatened that others are able and good, for he or she has a proper self-assurance that comes from knowing that he or she belongs in a greater whole and is diminished when others are humiliated or diminished, when others are tortured or oppressed."

Right now, when people have followed the Canonicals and Ubuntu actions, there have been started talks how Canonical is doing working as their own promoted philosophy is meaning.

Canonical is not marketing Ubuntu as developed by the greater community and that they are using software from greater community. And that all their users are using exactly the same software and enjoying same priviliages than other distributors users.

Instead, Canonical presents Ubuntu as it is developed by their community (Ubuntu) and themselfs. That they do not mention where the software is from. And how the users have got the best and the leading distribution what others can not compete.


Even that Canonical is privat company, it was driven by the community. Because it needed the community to succees. Now it does not anymore care so much about the community because it has so big fan and userbase that it can start maintaining itself. Giving impressions for users that ties them to Canonical/Ubuntu by making suggestion and illusions with marketing.

In the CoC, the first point has something to say:

"Our work will be used by other people, and we in turn will depend on the work of others. Any decision we take will affect users and colleagues, and we should take those consequences into account when making decisions. Ubuntu has millions of users and thousands of contributors. Even if it's not obvious at the time, our contributions to Ubuntu will impact the work of others. For example, changes to code, infrastructure, policy, documentation and translations during a release may negatively impact others' work."

And this is now the question, it is not directly towards the Canonical or any specific group or person in the Ubuntu community. But as the whole. The small decisions what are maded, reflects to the others. And at this time, there have been made lots of small bad deisions about the Ubuntu marketing. By being a selfish. They are as small as not mentioning Linux OS in the front page, or GNOME as the destkop. Or even that Canonical is the F/OSS distributor.

The first impression what is maded, will stay much longer and it is harder to correct after that.

Like when new users start to use Ubuntu, they believe that Ubuntu is the OS, not the Linux (kernel). They even get the believe that the Ubuntu has the own desktop what can not be found anywhere else. And thats why there are lots of problems that peole has questions when they want to move away from Windows, should they take a Ubuntu or Linux (when leaving of the option to move away from PC and take a Mac).

The Ubuntu has started to be a synonym for other OS than Linux. Is that the thing what Ubuntu community wanted? That their userbase is build by the wrong illusion? That new comers has wrong believes and knowledge of the F/OSS technology and communities?

It is not enough that some people would try to correct the mistakes in forums when asked. The marketing is currently the problem and how the Ubuntu is being represented for people who do not know the world. Even worse, the wider group who does not have knowledge of the technology, presents it with their own words what are based to the marketing or assumptions.

The main question is: Is there a person who really can control all the marketing and can take actions to correct the small wrong decisions what have been made, even if that would mean destroying the RDF?

KiwiNZ
August 18th, 2010, 10:49 AM
Canonical is Managed by very talented staff.

Ubuntu is funded and led by a very talented individual who has given a considerable amount.

Grenage
August 18th, 2010, 10:54 AM
I'm not entirely sure where you're coming from. Canonical has always been quite clear with their intentions, and we're all getting a pretty good deal here.

I'm getting an open-source OS for free; one that's constantly being developed, has a good community and excellent support from software designers (comparably).

Ubuntu has also made some of the biggest inroads for the Linux desktop market.

slackthumbz
August 18th, 2010, 11:00 AM
What exactly are you talking about?

My thoughts exactly.

pommie
August 18th, 2010, 11:01 AM
When you go to a car showroom do you see a placard stating that although the car is a Ford the windscreen is made by ####, and the tyres are made by ####, and the radio made by ###, etc etc
No you do not, the Ford is the overall package and is marketed as such.

Same applies here, Ubuntu is the overall package and is marketed as such.

nuff said

Cheers David

koenn
August 18th, 2010, 11:28 AM
[words ]

wat pommie said. Canonical is using using "ubuntu" as brand name for all the underlying stuff (Linux, Free Software, ...). It's a marketing technique.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand





The main question is: Is there a person who really can control all the marketing and can take actions to correct the small wrong decisions what have been made, even if that would mean destroying the RDF?

Canonical's PR department:
PR@Canonical.com

grahammechanical
August 18th, 2010, 05:19 PM
So, the Redhat people do not market their product as special? And I don't think! I do not have a problem with the providers of Linux distributions earning a living from producing products and services. The software is covered by licensing agreements that prevent anyone from legally claiming the OS as belonging to them. I am just thankful for a fine OS, software, and support.

regards.

RiceMonster
August 18th, 2010, 05:26 PM
This is an outrage! A company trying to make their product look attractive? I don't believe it!

NightwishFan
August 18th, 2010, 06:44 PM
This is an outrage! A company trying to make their product look attractive? I don't believe it!

What cheek to assume such a thing!

Fri13
August 18th, 2010, 07:25 PM
Canonical is Managed by very talented staff.

Ubuntu is funded and led by a very talented individual who has given a considerable amount.

Seems like you accidentally send the message before ending what "the individual" has given. ;)

But question is, are those the features of Canonical / Ubuntu community what push the "dark side" away or makes bad decisions as acceptable?

snowpine
August 18th, 2010, 07:37 PM
Seems like you accidentally send the message before ending what "the individual" has given. ;)

But question is, are those the features of Canonical / Ubuntu community what push the "dark side" away or makes bad decisions as acceptable?

Speak plainly and let us know your actual objection here; currently it is very hard to figure out exactly what you are insinuating. :(

Or, if you prefer not to air your grievances on a public forum, you've been given the contact information for Canonical's PR department; you can take it up with them. :)

juancarlospaco
August 18th, 2010, 07:38 PM
These are the users asking on IRC:
"hi? is anyone there???, HEEELLLOOOOOO!!!!!!, HEEELLLOOOOOO!!!!!!, HEEELLLOOOOOO!!!!!!, Can i ask a question???, Can i ask a question???, Can i ask a question???, Can i ask a question??? (...) nothing works!!!!!, HEEEEELPP!!!!!"

for a couple of hours.

KiwiNZ
August 18th, 2010, 08:23 PM
We have repeatedly asked the OP to clarify the points of this thread. He/she has not. I can only assume there is no points or the OP is a trolling.

I am going to close the thread.