The future of Office Suites?

[TriBlox6432]

Oracle is suing Google over Android, they have ended OpenSolaris, and I can foresee that this may be the end of all open source software from Oracle. What office suite do you think Ubuntu will include once this happens? Which would you prefer?

[forrestcupp]

The same one they do now, Go-oo. It's the Novell backed fork of OpenOffice.org.

[Tombgeek]

Probably most likely Abiword and Gnumeric, that come with Xubuntu. I don't know any free presentation applications.

[Ric_NYC]

Abiword and Google Docs.

If Go-OO is a fork of OpenOffice... Oracle is going after that too... Like it did to Java.

[bunburya]

- I don't think it's a given that Oracle will discontinue all open source projects including OpenOffice.
- I also don't think Oracle discontinuing their support for OO will be the end of OO on Linux. As has been said, Ubuntu currently supports the Novell-backed fork.

So I don't think this is a question we need to be considering any time soon. I hope that I am correct in that because IMO OpenOffice is by far the best open source office suite out there.

[SoFl W]

I unfortunately think we are moving to software as a service, in the near future our computers will be not much more than dumb terminals that connect to servers where programs and our info are stored.

You will have no privacy and nothing will be yours, this will be done in the name of convenience and ease of use.

[jrothwell97]

OpenOffice.org, and its derivatives, are woefully inadequate in comparison to the "in-house" office suites of the other major operating systems (MS Office and iWork.)

This is nothing to do with Oracle, but the fact Oracle have now gone after Google for Java means that a replacement must be sought or started as soon as possible.

Not for any technical reason (OO.o is quite safe in this regard, given that it's a desktop app and therefore the patent grant applies) but because continuing to ship OpenOffice.org might be seen as an endorsement of Oracle's actions. And because it's terrible.

A new office suite written in Mono or Vala would almost certainly bring performance improvements, and be easier to integrate into the running environment. (WinForms or WPF on Windows, GTK+ on Ubuntu, etc.)

[Sslaxx]

Go-oo.org uses Java (like the main OpenOffice.org does) for things like database support, yes? But does this mean anything? That depends on whether or not you're using Oracle's JRE/JDK with it, I guess. It could if nothing else muddy the waters, and FUD is certainly going to happen - and is happening - regardless of the legal safety (or not, for that matter) of OpenOffice.org and its forks.

[GMU_DodgyHodgy]

Oracle cannot go after Open Office like it did Java. There are two different scenarios here at play. One the code for OO.org was open sourced long before Sun bought the company that created it. The code is out there under solid open source licenses. That means Oracle would have to go after IBM and its implementation of Open Office - Lotus Symphony - Oracle cannot handle that fight.

Second - Every one has to calm down on Oracle's Java move - there position is very weak in this case. If they lose - and they will - it will chill any additional law suits ideas they have in the future.

[DeadSuperHero]

KWord has really come a long way, so that's always a possibility.

If anything, I feel that a new Office suite ought to be written from scratch using Clutter and native GTK for Gnome.

Really, as long as it supports OpenDocument, I'm fine with it.

[Ric_NYC]

Comparison of word processors


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_word_processors

[TriBlox6432]

The new one should be written from scratch, but should be kept up with Microsoft Office and iWork to be fully compatible within a year of a new release. Also, lightweight. Very lightweight. And easy to use.

[ssam]

oracle distribute open office under the LGPL
http://www.openoffice.org/license.html
so there is not much they can do to prevent anyone else carrying on development.

this is the point of open source.

[smellyman]

OpenOffice.org, and its derivatives, are woefully inadequate in comparison to the "in-house" office suites of the other major operating systems (MS Office and iWork.)


Woefully? How so

[jrothwell97]

Woefully? How so

To start with, it's horrifically unstable (the Go-oo distribution in particular), sometimes crashing for no readily apparent reason whatsoever. Its document recovery function very rarely works. Its UI does not conform to the conventions of any of the systems it runs on, and is at best crudely integrated. It is exceptionally difficult for first-time users to master, clinging to the "old" Microsoft Office style like a limpet, bar a poor imitation of the Ribbon that was in the pipeline at one point. Its typography is appalling. It is achingly slow. It is monolithic, meaning all the components of the suite are (inexplicably) in the same binary. Its support for other file formats is adequate at best, terrible at worst. It does not come with any templates that are passable by the standards of the other suites.

Microsoft Office is far superior in terms of stability, feature-completeness and compatibility, and iWork has one of the finest UI designs in its class (as well as sometimes, astonishingly, proving fun to use.) Both produce professional-looking output, feature excellent documentation, and integrate exceptionally well, UI-wise and otherwise, with their host OSes.

So, yes. OpenOffice.org is inadequate. AbiWord and Gnumeric are good, but nowhere near stable enough for mainstream adoption. (AbiWord's spellchecking and word wrapping is still dodgy.)

There is most definitely a case for a GTK+/Clutter-based office suite, perhaps with the word processor based upon WebKit. Lightweight-ness isn't such an issue, but only because it'd be hard to be heavier than OO.o running at full whack.

[murderslastcrow]

I'd say KOffice, which is great for KDE4 users. However, I think people here would flip out, although it is the next best full suite of office software next to OpenOffice.org.

Sure, Abiword and Gnumeric are great, but where's the presentation software, the database software, the graphics software? KOffice really kicks butt in those regards.

To be honest, I wish they had more collaboration to have an official suite in Gnome again. These days they seem to focus more on the desktop than the applications, which may be necessary since there hasn't been a new release in a while, but after Gnome3 shapes up and they work out some bugs, I'd really like to see them focus on expanding their software, or supporting projects that would fit into a niche to help make them better.

Really, it's days like these that you realize we've kinda' taken OpenOffice.org, OpenSolaris, and Java for granted. :\ Who knew?

[Nick_Jinn]

I dont really understand why apps are supposed to go with certain DEs....Do they function better when used in their 'native' DE or is it just a bundle of apps that is thrown together to make a common desktop setup because somebody said so?

[spoons]

OpenOffice.org, and its derivatives, are woefully inadequate in comparison to the "in-house" office suites of the other major operating systems (MS Office and iWork.)

This is nothing to do with Oracle, but the fact Oracle have now gone after Google for Java means that a replacement must be sought or started as soon as possible.

Not for any technical reason (OO.o is quite safe in this regard, given that it's a desktop app and therefore the patent grant applies) but because continuing to ship OpenOffice.org might be seen as an endorsement of Oracle's actions. And because it's terrible.

A new office suite written in Mono or Vala would almost certainly bring performance improvements, and be easier to integrate into the running environment. (WinForms or WPF on Windows, GTK+ on Ubuntu, etc.)

I'd recommend you start work ASAP then. ;)


I unfortunately think we are moving to software as a service, in the near future our computers will be not much more than dumb terminals that connect to servers where programs and our info are stored.

You will have no privacy and nothing will be yours, this will be done in the name of convenience and ease of use.

This scares the hell out of me.

[libssd]

OpenOffice.org, and its derivatives, are woefully inadequate in comparison to the "in-house" office suites of the other major operating systems (MS Office and iWork.)
Could you provide some specifics for this statement? In the past year, I really haven't found anything that I wanted to do with the Open Office suite that I couldn't do, and I vastly prefer its UI to that of late versions of MS Office (2007 onward), which hog enormous amounts of screen real estate, and make functions that were previously accessible difficult to find. I spent a fair amount of effort in de-crapifying MS Office, by minimizing the horrible new toolbar design, whereas Open Office seemed fairly intuitive to me. Since I have MS Office on my iMac, I have neither incentive to look into the iWork suite, although I would expect it to have Apple's typical level of polish, possibly at the cost of some functionality.

[pt123]

The new one should be written from scratch,

Hell no, I am sick of so many re-inventing the wheel projects in Linux.

The existing code needs to be studied, and broken into components, then a priority list should be created on what features and changes the components require.
Then development should be based around this list. So that you still have a functioning product from early on.

It is funny year 2 or 3 music players come on too the Linux scene wrote from scratch but after 12-18 months they are pretty much dead as the developer has gotten a life, a job or a girl.

[Nick_Jinn]

While I think that cloud computing and a lack of privacy will indeed become more common, I dont think that powerful homes computers that function offline are going anywhere soon. If there is a market for them then they will be developed....I think that people are going to have heavy hardware at home and mobile devices will be moving towards being cheap and lightweight and subscription based....I dont think home computing will stop growing though.



I used to have the same worries about laptops coming with wireless built in....what if I WANT to remove my wireless for security reasons....that and the camera looking right in my face just in case the government wants to see who is typing....yeah a little paranoid but reality is stranger than fiction.

[mickie.kext]

OpenOffice.org, and its derivatives, are woefully inadequate in comparison to the "in-house" office suites of the other major operating systems (MS Office and iWork.)

This is nothing to do with Oracle, but the fact Oracle have now gone after Google for Java means that a replacement must be sought or started as soon as possible.

Not for any technical reason (OO.o is quite safe in this regard, given that it's a desktop app and therefore the patent grant applies) but because continuing to ship OpenOffice.org might be seen as an endorsement of Oracle's actions. And because it's terrible.

A new office suite written in Mono or Vala would almost certainly bring performance improvements, and be easier to integrate into the running environment. (WinForms or WPF on Windows, GTK+ on Ubuntu, etc.)

OpenOffice is under LGPLv3 which has even stronger patent grant than v2. There is nothing Oracle can do to it, and if they stop development it can be forked easily. There is no divide between desktop and anyting else, read GPL and Open Source definition. Patent grant is for any kind of use. If Canonical wants to distance itself from Oracle, they should just strip Oracle logo at compile time.

OpenOffice is very good pieces of software and it doesn't need to be replaced.

I think this Mono lobby and anti-java FUD is ridiculous. Mono is in greater patent danger than any other piece of software. It reads all over Microsoft and Oracle patents.

[cloyd]

I've found open office to be very good. There is some problem in exchanging highly formated word documents between OO and MSOffice, but documents are transferable. I have appreciated the ability to open docx files (which my wife, using MSOffice in XP cannot do). Yes, I wish there were a little more compatibility, but for what I save by not having to buy MSOffice, I'll deal with it.

I do have a question. At one time I downloaded Lotus Symphony. I didn't keep it long; it was a memory hog. But . . . as it was supposedly based on OO, why did it not have a GPL license?

[Nick_Jinn]

I am sure part of it did. I think you can mix and match open source and closed proprietary sofware to create a product that others cant just copy entirely without substituting for the proprietary portions....in some instances you can at least depending on the license?

[spoons]

While I think that cloud computing and a lack of privacy will indeed become more common, I dont think that powerful homes computers that function offline are going anywhere soon. If there is a market for them then they will be developed....I think that people are going to have heavy hardware at home and mobile devices will be moving towards being cheap and lightweight and subscription based....I dont think home computing will stop growing though.



I used to have the same worries about laptops coming with wireless built in....what if I WANT to remove my wireless for security reasons....that and the camera looking right in my face just in case the government wants to see who is typing....yeah a little paranoid but reality is stranger than fiction.

For the first one, you could damage the antenna inside in some way, or just turn it off in software if you feel that's enough, and for the second, blu-tac ;)

[spoons]

I've found open office to be very good. There is some problem in exchanging highly formated word documents between OO and MSOffice, but documents are transferable. I have appreciated the ability to open docx files (which my wife, using MSOffice in XP cannot do). Yes, I wish there were a little more compatibility, but for what I save by not having to buy MSOffice, I'll deal with it.

I do have a question. At one time I downloaded Lotus Symphony. I didn't keep it long; it was a memory hog. But . . . as it was supposedly based on OO, why did it not have a GPL license?

For the MSOffice on XP problem, I think that Microsoft have released a compatibility pack to load docx into Office 2003. That might be what you're looking for.

[murderslastcrow]

Yeah, someone COULD continue OpenOffice.org, but who has the time and resources to keep it up to snuff? Just because it's open source doesn't ensure someone will just jump at the opportunity to continue its legacy (although OpenOffice is a pretty obvious one if people are motivated enough to work on something like Clementine).

And Nick_Jinn, about the office suite for a specific DE, if you're a Gnome user, it doesn't seem like a very big deal. Also, a lot of people seem to think that just because we have Qtcurve, GTK applications in KDE are perfectly fine.

That would be true if GTK supported all the aspects of KDE4's theme engine. However, there are no radial gradients and no rounded menus in GTK. This doesn't sound like a big deal, but compared to Qt applications in Gnome (which look perfectly consistent), it can get pretty annoying, especially if you're design-minded like me. It's important to note that I'm DE agnostic- I currently use Gnome, but I may go back to KDE4 if they spruce up a few things (the code is just slow in some places it doesn't need to be, although the extra functionality in KDE almost would've made it worth it, I don't depend on Nepomuk for my work).

Also, the roots of these differences bleed far back into the past, when these projects started. KWord was far more compatible with KDE at one point that any Gnome alternative could've hoped to be. And, instead of just dropping their work, these developers decided to continue. Open source isn't like some huge corporation- it's people who can decide what to do with their time, and if that means working on alternative projects that they've put their time into rather than abandoning them, they're entitled to it.

For people who use KDE4, that work is very appreciated, even while the majority of forum members here may not relate.

Basically, what if someone forced you to use KDE applications for everything? That's how KDE users who use Ubuntu feel. That's why so many switch to openSUSE, since their COMMUNITY understands better the needs of KDE users. Sorry to say, but it's pretty obvious if you look at requests for a Qt Software Center. People just say, "why don't those KDE users just switch back to Windows and stop whining." I can assure you I didn't start using KDE because of its layout, but its capabilities and design.

Anyway, enough ranting, I'm sure you already agreed with a lot of that, not saying you're close-minded like those people. XD I hope I didn't come off too snarky?

But yeah, for everyone who says, "let's just make it lighter, compatible, and compatible with GTK," those are good ideas, but you have to be realistic. Projects don't just pop out of the ground, no matter how many libraries you reference to make the job easier. It's going to take time to replace OpenOffice.org if the necessity arises. We'll probably end up using something like IBM's Office applications while we wait for that.

Hopefully this doesn't happen. Again, if we suppose someone to do something, they're all the more likely to do it, since they don't have a lot of people encouraging them. I don't doubt that some of the former Sun employees are emotionally demoted by what's happening. We need to encourage the people within Oracle who care to keep the legacy going.

[jrothwell97]

OpenOffice is under LGPLv3 which has even stronger patent grant than v2. There is nothing Oracle can do to it, and if they stop development it can be forked easily. There is no divide between desktop and anyting else, read GPL and Open Source definition. Patent grant is for any kind of use. If Canonical wants to distance itself from Oracle, they should just strip Oracle logo at compile time.

OpenOffice is very good pieces of software and it doesn't need to be replaced.

I think this Mono lobby and anti-java FUD is ridiculous. Mono is in greater patent danger than any other piece of software. It reads all over Microsoft and Oracle patents.

Nonsense.

Firstly, it was never in any doubt that OpenOffice.org is completely safe. The patent waiver applies, and it's open-source.

However, I stand by my claim that it is woefully inadequate as office suites go.

Quite aside from its UI problems, compatibility issues with other formats (a massive barrier to adoption), monolithic architecture, amateur-looking output, size, bugginess and the fact development is mostly stagnant, I posit that the use of OpenOffice.org might be seen as endorsement of Oracle.

Of course, it's not, but my own experiences with you would suggest that you'd be completely outraged that we're supporting an evil, multi-national corporation who used their (acquired) patent portfolio to go after the distribution of an allegedly free and open-source platform, having found a loophole in a booby-trapped patent waiver.(Sound familiar?)

If I were doing it, I would write it in C# for .NET/Mono, because it's what I know and I also believe it's fundamentally safe. However, there's no reason it couldn't be written in Python, Vala, Java, or any other language under the sun. (Java is, as we have discussed, perfectly safe on desktop computers.)

It is a mess, like it or not. For some, I won't deny, it's adequate: however, there is no reason at all that it can't be replaced with something exceptional. (I'm also of the opinion that Microsoft Office under Wine is, at present, the best office suite for Linux, but hey ho.)



I dont really understand why apps are supposed to go with certain DEs....Do they function better when used in their 'native' DE or is it just a bundle of apps that is thrown together to make a common desktop setup because somebody said so?
It depends.

Two words.

Consistency. If a button looks different, or a widget behaves differently, it's going to confuse users. Yes, in all probability, they'll work it out, but it's an inconvenience and only serves to make things look and feel unprofessional and unfinished.

Integration. I say it's an improvement if you can open up a word processor document from your e-mails, run a spellcheck, do a mail merge with a group from your address book and drop in an asset from the desktop without having to faff around with exporting and importing them manually and copy/pasting. In addition, it's nice if keyboard shortcuts and copy/pasting even works.


[SaaS] scares the hell out of me.
Me too, but remember that we also used to be scared of the Internet, computers and electricity. If anything, SaaS is closer to what computer scientists of the 50s and 60s imagined: a massive computer doing all the thinking, with lots of little clients connecting to it.

[Dustin2128]

Me too, but remember that we also used to be scared of the Internet, computers and electricity. If anything, SaaS is closer to what computer scientists of the 50s and 60s imagined: a massive computer doing all the thinking, with lots of little clients connecting to it.
I am also an opponent of cloud computing. Remember, scientists in the 50s and 60s were thinking about this stuff before the invention of the microcomputer. I was reading a short thing called 'the right to read' (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html), where microsoft and the gov't were the only ones who knew what your computer's root password is. Might be a bit off topic, but if you're using a thin client (I think that's the term), the company running your cloud could very well be in direct control of your hardware, meaning you no longer actually own your computer. Even if everyone else moves to the cloud, you'll have to pry my desktop out of my cold, dead hands.

[jrusso2]

OpenOffice is under LGPLv3 which has even stronger patent grant than v2. There is nothing Oracle can do to it, and if they stop development it can be forked easily. There is no divide between desktop and anyting else, read GPL and Open Source definition. Patent grant is for any kind of use. If Canonical wants to distance itself from Oracle, they should just strip Oracle logo at compile time.

OpenOffice is very good pieces of software and it doesn't need to be replaced.

I think this Mono lobby and anti-java FUD is ridiculous. Mono is in greater patent danger than any other piece of software. It reads all over Microsoft and Oracle patents.

I think its LGPL and its own license CDL.

[murderslastcrow]

About the privacy of online office suites...

This is a pretty new business, this cloud stuff. There's no reason we can't be the founders of its largest communities and software projects. We just don't have a lot of open source web applications on sourceforge, or otherwise, yet.

It doesn't have to be a Windows repeat. Facebook didn't really get so popular from advertisements on other sites or commercials on television. It was the enthusiasm of the initial user base that caused it to grow and envelope such diverse demographics.

Things like Diaspora are what I'm thinking of. An open source project that's planned to live on the web, not the desktop. As an Android phone user, I'm craving these kinds of projects. However, it seems most user-focused developers are focusing on the desktop. I think we need some new developers to get into the nitty gritty of this new market and innovate.

After all, much of the internet is run on Linux servers. ;) Why not make the data it serves open as well?

[libssd]

To start with, it's horrifically unstable (the Go-oo distribution in particular), sometimes crashing for no readily apparent reason whatsoever. Its document recovery function very rarely works.
This reminds me of the "Ubuntu is going down the toilet discussions." Since I have never experienced an OO crash, I have had no occasion to use its recovery functions.


Its UI does not conform to the conventions of any of the systems it runs on, and is at best crudely integrated. It is exceptionally difficult for first-time users to master, clinging to the "old" Microsoft Office style like a limpet, bar a poor imitation of the Ribbon that was in the pipeline at one point.
I find nothing discordant about the OO user interface, which is far more consistent across applications than any release of MS Office. The "ribbon" is my most hated feature of MS Office, and the first thing I do is change preferences to get rid of the damned thing.


It is achingly slow.
With 2 second load time on a netbook, OO is far faster than MS Office on either of the platforms that I have used.


It is monolithic, meaning all the components of the suite are (inexplicably) in the same binary. Its support for other file formats is adequate at best, terrible at worst.
Perhaps this is why OO modules have more consistent user interfaces than MS Office modules, which are basically an assemblage of programs that Microsoft acquired after they were developed by others, and then did as little work as possible to make consistent. The inconsistencies in commands and keyboard shortcuts between different MS Office modules has long been one of my biggest complaints.

As to file formats, I have long felt that Microsoft changes file formats as often as possible in order to 1) discourage competition by making reverse engineering difficult; 2) encourage users to upgrade to the newest release of their wretched software.

"Microsoft does not guarantee the correct display of the document on different workstations, even if the two workstations use the same version of Microsoft Word. This means it is possible the document the recipient sees might not be exactly the same as the document the sender sees."

As someone who supported desktop users for 20 years, I can attest to the above statement from direct experience with users who had a desktop at work and a laptop at home, and wondered why they had problems. Microsoft Word file compatibility is an oxymoron.

I have used MS Word since the early 1990's, and I feel that Word has been going backward in both functionality and usability since Word 5.1 for the Macintosh, which was its high point.

[Nick_Jinn]

I am also an opponent of cloud computing. Remember, scientists in the 50s and 60s were thinking about this stuff before the invention of the microcomputer. I was reading a short thing called 'the right to read' (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html), where microsoft and the gov't were the only ones who knew what your computer's root password is. Might be a bit off topic, but if you're using a thin client (I think that's the term), the company running your cloud could very well be in direct control of your hardware, meaning you no longer actually own your computer. Even if everyone else moves to the cloud, you'll have to pry my desktop out of my cold, dead hands.


I wouldnt say I am an 'opponent', but the idea of hosting your data on someone elses space where the government or anyone can snoop through it without physical access is a little scary....a virtual media player doesnt bother me. Private documents on a foreign server? That just irks me.

Thats one reason why I sort of like Android but dont care at all for Chrome. It removes domestic computing making it all about the cloud....totally reliant, powerless if you are off the grid, and the privacy violations.

[forrestcupp]

Go-oo.org uses Java (like the main OpenOffice.org does) for things like database support, yes?Good point. Oracle can't go after Go-oo in itself because it is a fork of free software. But they may be able to strip its use of Java, which would be a big handicap.



I do have a question. At one time I downloaded Lotus Symphony. I didn't keep it long; it was a memory hog. But . . . as it was supposedly based on OO, why did it not have a GPL license?

In the beginning, Lotus Symphony was based off of an older version of OOo before they moved to the LGPL. Back then, it had a freer license that allowed them to use it for their proprietary project. But I've heard the new version is going to be based on version 3, so I'm not sure how they're working that out.

[murderslastcrow]

I think hosting your own server to run your own cloud services under, or having indisputable ownership of space on someone else's server, would be a good way to approach this. However, most people won't like to go through that process- it'll have to be made more automatic for them if they're even going to use it.

This is why OpenID and a centralized identity online that you yourself own is very crucial. Rather than companies owning this information, they are merely authorized, by you, to use certain portions you deem necessary, and that they would need.

Then you don't have to fill out tons of information every time you sign up for a website. I really think this would be easier to implement today than it was in the beginning, but it will be difficult to spread its use. If anyone knows of someone coding this centralized, private identity for online services, I'd be glad to see what's going on with that.

But yeah, back to OpenOffice. If you came from Microsoft Office, and you're expecting Microsoft Office, you've missed the point entirely. There are plenty of people who are just getting their first computers, and many more who never really got into any programs on Windows.

Why should we copy them? Just because OpenOffice isn't perfect doesn't make it shoddy. You're entitled to your opinion of the software's quality, but there's a certain line you cross when you give software shameful labels and speak as if it's a person with a corrupted personality.

When it comes to software, you have two primary points to focus on.

1. How functional is the program? These are the features and abilities of the program itself, and how well it implements them.

The functionality of Writer, for instance, is not "copy MS Word." It's "Do Word processing with advanced layout options and a high degree of compatibility with undocumented formats like .doc." It does this pretty freaking well, compared to everyone else. If the only feature you're looking for in a program is to look or act like another program, you're going to hate it, even if it's good.

2. How well designed is the program? Is everything in a logical (not presumed or previously learned) place? Is it as consistent as it can be with the environments it runs in? Is it predictable? Are the most common functions easy to perform, and are the more advanced features well laid-out for people who need them?

This applies to music players, graphic editors, word processors, recipe aggregators, etc. This is what most common users are concerned with, "I know it does AT LEAST this, and it should be obvious and focused on those tasks."

OpenOffice, again, has an easily understandable interface. Two bars of options depending on the program, starting with main formatting on top and customizations on the bottom. It seems pretty logical, as people look to save, open, create new documents first, the top left. Then they proceed to figure out the design of their documents, upper right.

Then, as they keep going, they customize, which is underneath, with the least used functions on the right, as the eye will land their last.

This is basic design, and when you consider the OpenOffice HAS to run on pretty much EVERY platform, it's surprisingly consistent. Microsoft Office has a different version entirely for Mac and Windows, and I'd like to hear you say MS Office is very compatible with Gnome. Abiword is probably the only advanced word processor that beats OpenOffice in Gnome compatibility.

Microsoft Office may be better in some ways, I don't know since I rarely use it, but to pretend that OpenOffice is an unsatisfactory and poor program is just silly. We all know it's a very good program with a crap load of functionality.

Sometimes I think open source software is so good that peoples expectations skyrocket above where they should be, and open source developers take a lot of crap from people who don't really understand what goes into designing a program.

TL|DR Openoffice isn't perfect, but it doesn't suck. Please be realistic while you critique others work, rather than comparing them to unfair standards.

[libssd]

But yeah, back to OpenOffice. If you came from Microsoft Office, and you're expecting Microsoft Office, you've missed the point entirely. There are plenty of people who are just getting their first computers, and many more who never really got into any programs on Windows.
Well stated, and this may be the crux of the last few posts. Linux is Not Windows (http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm) is an excellent essay on the broader topic of Linux user expectations. Substitute "Open Office" and "Microsoft Office" for Linux and Windows:


It is logically impossible for any thing to be better than any other thing whilst remaining completely identical to it. A perfect copy may be equal, but it can never surpass. So when you gave Linux a try in hopes that it would be better [than Windows], you were inescapably hoping that it would be different. Too many people ignore this fact, and hold up every difference between the two OSes as a Linux failure.

[SoFl W]

This scares the hell out of me.
People will give up almost everything because they believe it to be more convenient, or if they think it is for their safety. The masses need to be convinced it is better for them.

[TriBlox6432]

Honestly, if other people want all their data available for snooping, let 'em. I will always have everything stored locally. If cloud computing becomes popular enough, I will run my own server with my own cloud services, where I am in complete control... Actually, that would be great. I could make a lot of money doing that... Make a bunch of cloud computing service and never snoop on anything anyone is doing. Make it ALL encrypted... Now there's a market to be had. I can be freaking rich!! *goes to plot his amazing-ness*

[Khakilang]

Any open source software that Larry Ellison touches will die.

[Zorgoth]

The cloud will never take over completely, because even if it came to dominate the personal computing market for consumers, there would still be corporations hiring people who dealt with sensitive proprietary and/or classified data that they would not trust off of their own encrypted hard drives. I suppose it is theoretically possible though that this could lead to the PC as we know it today becoming less consumer-oriented.

I also think that the open source community will continue to function more or less undamaged since I think that most Linux/etc users value having control of their own computer/files/programs.

[Nick_Jinn]

Also, a lot of people dont like to pay for subscription services.

I like OpenOffice. I never really got into the habbit of using MS Word.

[murderslastcrow]

Khakilang, that was beautiful. XD I only hope it isn't true.

And Nick, truth is that most people I tell about OpenOffice switch to it all the way. It seems Microsoft Office is really big with businesses and schools, but everyone else is quite content with ditching it. Same with Firefox and Chromium- people just don't care about the branding. The products are better or equal in quality, and they're free of price. They'll learn about software freedom later, but from a consumer's point of view, open source is win.

They just aren't always so content to change their OS, since it doesn't seem so easy without a little assistance, and there might be something Wine just can't do yet (Adobe Premiere and AfterEffects, for example).

But seriously, outside of Linux users, the users of open source are vast and common. Most people would use it if they were more aware of it. In this sense, I think it would be a good idea to encourage Windows users to use open source software where they can, since the move to any other platform, including OS X, would be that much simpler to make.

However, with office suites online, having a web browser (even phones can do this) would be a suitable requirement. So while the software may be closed and the data held by someone else if you don't run your own service (which would kinda' defeat the purpose of cloud computing anyway, since it would be simpler to store locally than have your own server), cloud computing eliminates one huge reason why closed source is bad. Interoperability.

I think compatibility and interoperability are two huge reasons people want cross-platform software. When this need is filled by the web, will it become less common to care about the source code?

Or will we simply discover that the internet OS is just as restrictive as Windows once was to many of us? Time will tell.

[Sslaxx]

Regarding OpenOffice.org and Java in light of the Google case (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1551869), I emailed one of the devteam (Michael Meeks) about it...


Hi Stuart,


I'm wondering if there's any possibility the Google/Oracle lawsuit could negatively impact on Go-oo's use of Java, cf. http://ohioloco.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=9720003#post9720003 and http://ohioloco.ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9725027&postcount=34

Is there any cause for concern?
In the software world - it's good to be concerned ;-)

OTOH - this is not a large concern to me. The Java pieces are mostly optional and remove-able - I wouldn't fret about it.

HTH,

Michael.