Will an EMP wreck a device that's turned off?

[t0p]

Will an EMP (Electro-Magnetic Pulse) weapon wreck an electronic device that's turned off at the time of the attack?

[Tristam Green]

Will an EMP (Electro-Magnetic Pulse) weapon wreck an electronic device that's turned off at the time of the attack?

Don't know, I'd think the solid-state components like memory would be messed up but I think the pure electrical components would either be minimally messed up or at least easily repaired.

Doesn't really bother me, though. Humans are hardy creatures and survived for 60 million years without electrical devices.

[Zorgoth]

I'm pretty sure an EMP would fry it anyway. So if you are worried about your computer being hit by an EMP, put in in a Faraday cage :D

[YeOK]

I remember reading a preparation plan, it said you need to store backup equipment in a faraday cage, not connected to the mains.

[Paqman]

Short answer: yep, totally.

Long answer: it depends on the device.

The overcurrent that causes the damage from an EMP is what's called induced current. That means that a very strong external magnetic field passing through the circuit causes a current to flow within it. So the power source is carried in the EMP pulse itself. Basically it temporarily hooks the circuit up to power source that's so large it causes damage.

The reason I say: "it depends" is that while a purely electronically switched circuit will get wasted by an EMP, one which contained electromechanical devices will be a lot more reisliant. Typically these will be designed to operate at higher voltages as well, so would be much more resistant to damage from an EMP. Any circuit that's well grounded when it's off would naturally be highly resistant too.

[cascade9]

Thats what I've always believed, if a device is turned off it could (will?) be trashed, if its connected to mains power, wired internet (faraday cage or not), trashed.

If a device is in a faraday cage with a power source inside the same cage, that device could even survive a EMP pulse if it was turned on.

[sdowney717]

ever felt an electric current flow from an antenna? I have.
EMP energy wave will flow thru eguipment even off and electrically short it out. think lightning
I wonder if a car has enough sheet metal to shield itself from an EMP

[betrunkenaffe]

Will an EMP (Electro-Magnetic Pulse) weapon wreck an electronic device that's turned off at the time of the attack?

Shouldn't, the emp will play havoc with the currents at play within an active device. One that has no power going to it should not be affected since the pulse has nothing to surge/change. There is the possibility of it damaging it however from my understanding it shouldn't.

I'm not an expert so if you really need to know, I would suggest proper research. Decent enough amount of info regarding: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

If you want to be absolutely certain, a faraday cage is the preferred method of defeating an EMP simply because the pulse cannot penetrate it at all. No electrical transmissions may travel through one. That being said, there are ways to make electronic devices which are resistant to EMP attacks so that they will still function after one (either through a reboot system or whatever on the spot "repairs" that would be needed)

[sdowney717]

http://www.onesecondafter.com/pb/wp_d10e87d9/wp_d10e87d9.html

if it is plugged in and hooked up to cables which go outside, the 10000 amp power line surge will fry it. modern electronics plugged into the grid is very delicate stuff. I think it can also jump close switch contacts and the surge will move right into the device.

[Paqman]

One that has no power going to it should not be affected since the pulse has nothing to surge/change.

Nope, the EMP pulse provides all the power that's needed. If you pass the field through the device, current will flow. If that current is strong enough, it'll fry components.

You might be getting confused with the damage that lightning causes, which is due to large transients being shoved down your power line into the device. Different mechanism entirely.

[eriktheblu]

The fear of EMP stems largely from atomic detonations. High altitude bursts will have extremely devastating effects on technology dependent regions.

Lower altitude and ground burst weapons will generally have more localized EMP effects, but the resulting charge could travel some distance over the power lines.

So, if you happen to know of a pending atomic strike, and you are well outside the blast zone, it is probably a good idea to unplug everything.

Of course, preserving your photo collection will likely not seem all that important after a nuclear attack.

[sdowney717]

thing is you will never know. News will tell the story of rising tensions, etc... The government will only have a few minutes warning and they wont tell anyone if it is underway. Many thousands of miles from a blast, the power lines are all interconnected, the EMP will run. There is no preparing your electronics for that unless you go completely off the grid.

just imagine your living your life and it happens. One day is all nice and comfy, your day to day plans running smoothly, the next?? That is just the way tragedy is in the world, It does not take an EMP to totally disrupt your world, it could be an earthquake, tsunami, asteroid.

[Paqman]

The fear of EMP stems largely from atomic detonations.

Not necessarily. It turns out you can make an man-portable EMP weapon with a range of a few hundred metres using conventional explosives.

[x-shaney-x]

Nothing worse than holding on to your nuke til the end of the game then some nob sets of an EMP :(

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

There is a common EMP that we work with all the time.

Electro-static discharge (spark), like want you get when you walk across a carpet and try to touch something. That is a type of EMP. It doesn't matter if the something you almost touched is powered on or not. That spark that jumps between your hand and the something does the damage. That is why you ground yourself before working with memory chips, and so forth.

[Ctrl-Alt-F1]

There is a common EMP that we work with all the time.

Electro-static discharge (spark), like want you get when you walk across a carpet and try to touch something. That is a type of EMP. It doesn't matter if the something you almost touched is powered on or not. That spark that jumps between your hand and the something does the damage. That is why you ground yourself before working with memory chips, and so forth.
I broke a playstation this way :-({|=

[Ralob]

EMP's will fry anything regardless of their state of power or connectivity. Unless you have your equipment in a specially designed EMP-proof room, then your stuff is at risk. An EMP is a nasty, nasty thing.

[SoFl W]

I am not sure of the differences, don't they turn off, or manipulate satellites during high solar flare activity? Are those EMP... or I should ask how are they different then EMPs?

[tgalati4]

If I cover my pants pocket with a metal screen, would that protect my cell phone?

Maybe I need to cover more than my pockets.

[Chronon]

EMP's will fry anything regardless of their state of power or connectivity. Unless you have your equipment in a specially designed EMP-proof room, then your stuff is at risk. An EMP is a nasty, nasty thing.

That is not necessarily true. An EMP refers to a large transient pulse of magnetic flux density. If this crosses a wire loop then it will induce a current due to the changing flux. It's not clear to me that an open circuit would suffer damage since there is no inductive coupling to a straight segment of wire in a magnetic field, only to closed loops. Furthermore, the nature of the circuit should be considered. It is possible, in principle, to design circuits so that each closed loop contains a fuse, permitting graceful failure in the case of a current spike. The main problem is that integrated circuits typically have not been designed in this way and will thus be damaged by the transient current spike.

[Austin25]

It does not matter the state of the device, but it definitely matters the strength of the EMP. Tinfoil makes a good Faraday cage.

[Chronon]

It does not matter the state of the device, but it definitely matters the strength of the EMP. Tinfoil makes a good Faraday cage.

Can you explain this statement? Induction depends on the rate of change of the magnetic flux through a wire loop. If my device doesn't contain any conductive loops (when switched off) can you explain why it would be damaged?

[Austin25]

Can you explain this statement? Induction depends on the rate of change of the magnetic flux through a wire loop. If my device doesn't contain any conductive loops (when switched off) can you explain why it would be damaged?
If anything is connected in parallel,for example, the current could go backwards on sensitive parts like an IC, frying them.

[Chronon]

If anything is connected in parallel,for example, the current could go backwards on sensitive parts like an IC, frying them.

An IC typically already has many unprotected circuits (unfused closed loops). In this case, the magnitude would probably be enough to destroy the IC, regardless of the direction of the current (which will pulse in both directions anyway).

I'm just arguing against this idea that it doesn't matter what the conditions of the circuit are. I can design a circuit that simply becomes a collection of straight segments when disconnected. This will not experience any inductive coupling.

[Nick_Jinn]

EMP devices are great 'non-violent' weapons to use in the worst case scenario of a civil war. They shut down infrastructure and cripple the 'system' without directly causing human fatalities....I say directly because there are people hooked up to life support who need their machines and if order breaks down indirect deaths could result. Its comparably benign however compared to other more violent acts. Its also a technology that is accessible to your average physics major, assuming you have a big enough power source that can deliver enough juice all at once in a short burst.


You can be sure that the government is somewhat protect from these devices....somewhat, and *some* of their technology, but most civilian infrastructure is not.


Dont go trying to experiment with EMP devices in your basement though. People dont like it when you fry their electronics. They might even become angry. You dont want to mess up you tv and desktop.

[Dustin2128]

I'm thinking that you can make a small Faraday cage-like device with aluminum foil and some non-conductive material like cardboard, I'll have to check my facts but I should build one for my laptop...

[Nick_Jinn]

You will need an EMP device to test it to see if it works.

[nrs]

Doesn't really bother me, though. Humans are hardy creatures and survived for 60 million years without electrical devices.
Wouldn't be the end of humanity of course, but our current civilization is entirely dependant on the abundance of electricity / electronics.

So that would most definitely be on it's way out.

(And no, I don't live in fear of doomsday scenarios nor do I think they're likely, just discussing a what-if)

[Nick_Jinn]

Fear? I think it sounds like a blast.

[Paqman]

If I cover my pants pocket with a metal screen, would that protect my cell phone?



LOL
You'd need to ground the shield. How do you feel about running a cable down your trouser leg to earth?

[szymon_g]

Doesn't really bother me, though. Humans are hardy creatures and survived for 60 million years without electrical devices.

pardon me?

[x-shaney-x]

pardon me?

Indeed, and managed to survive being eaten and wiped out by dinosaurs too it seems ;)

[Austin25]

You will need an EMP device to test it to see if it works.
Microwave?

[Dustin2128]

modern humans are only about 100,000 years old, the primate order didn't even exist 60 million years ago.

[mobilediesel]

An IC typically already has many unprotected circuits (unfused closed loops). In this case, the magnitude would probably be enough to destroy the IC, regardless of the direction of the current (which will pulse in both directions anyway).

I'm just arguing against this idea that it doesn't matter what the conditions of the circuit are. I can design a circuit that simply becomes a collection of straight segments when disconnected. This will not experience any inductive coupling.

A length of wire, not connected to anything, can be damaged or even vaporized if the EMP is strong enough. Nothing has to be connected together in any way, it only needs to be conductive for an EMP to damage it.

[jflaker]

Yes

An EMP attack, depending on the level, will irreparably damage electronics.

A nuke attack would create enough emp to overwhelm the atmosphere and charge circuits to overload levels and fry the components on a circuit board.

A localized attack could have the same effect but to varying levels of damage.

The only way to protect devices is to house them in a grounded Faraday cage and be completely isolated from any external power source or cableway to the outside world....

seeing how most things are plugged into a cable of some sort that makes its way outside, isolating electronics is essentially and nearly impossible.

[Shining Arcanine]

Shouldn't, the emp will play havoc with the currents at play within an active device. One that has no power going to it should not be affected since the pulse has nothing to surge/change. There is the possibility of it damaging it however from my understanding it shouldn't.

I'm not an expert so if you really need to know, I would suggest proper research. Decent enough amount of info regarding: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

If you want to be absolutely certain, a faraday cage is the preferred method of defeating an EMP simply because the pulse cannot penetrate it at all. No electrical transmissions may travel through one. That being said, there are ways to make electronic devices which are resistant to EMP attacks so that they will still function after one (either through a reboot system or whatever on the spot "repairs" that would be needed)

That makes no sense. The EMP does something called induction which generates currents regardless of whether or not there were any currents prior to its arrival. If an EMP goes through your house, then a current will magically appear in the wires. If your wires were an in-door wave pool, then the EMP would cause massive waves to appear in your pool. It has nothing to do with whether or not your device is on or off, or in the wave pool analogy, whether or not your wave generator is on or off.

[Nick_Jinn]

modern humans are only about 100,000 years old, the primate order didn't even exist 60 million years ago.

Are post modern humans their own sub species now?

[Paqman]

A length of wire, not connected to anything, can be damaged or even vaporized if the EMP is strong enough. Nothing has to be connected together in any way, it only needs to be conductive for an EMP to damage it.

In that case it would be due to the wire shorting out to earth, and thereby forming a sort of circuit which allows current to flow. So you're both right really.