Gnome becoming a "OS"??? [Archive]

MCVenom

August 1st, 2010, 09:24 PM

I can definitely see how it could be good for Gnome, but depending on what purpose Gnome OS would actually serve...
In light of recent events, I could definitely see this complicating an already possibly strained relationship between Gnome and Canonical.

Meh, I'll save opinion forming for when I learn more. :P

MCVenom

August 1st, 2010, 09:29 PM

Any reasons why? What could a Gnome OS provide that Ubuntu would not be able to?
Why does Ubuntu matter in this equation? Gnome wants to create it's own distro, for developers, hackers, artists, whoever that will probably ship with pure, unchanged Gnome and Gnome apps (like Epiphany instead of Firefox). Meanwhile, Ubuntu does have a good bit of changes from upstream Gnome and switches a lot of apps out for others.

Ubuntu doesn't really matter in the discussion of a Gnome OS; it'd kinda be like asking "What would a Gnome OS do that Windows/OSX would not be able to?". :P

snowpine

August 1st, 2010, 09:33 PM

Ubuntu adds a lot of unique touches to the Gnome desktop, but there are other distros (Arch and Foresight just to name two I've tried) that use a "vanilla" Gnome from upstream.

But on the other hand, a nice installable Live CD straight from the Gnome foundation has a certain appeal. Since they would not have to support other desktop environments, it could be a very focused and stable project. I could see it having a certain appeal for example in an office environment where you just need plain Gnome and OpenOffice as easily as possible. Maybe they could sell a nicely packaged CD set, raise a few dollars to fund the Gnome project.

splicerr

August 1st, 2010, 11:54 PM

That (http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/08/proposal-to-make-gnome-fully-fledged-os.html) was surprising!!!
what do you guys/gals think?

I think it would be okay. But the article and some comments here does show that there's a real disconnect between the Ubuntu community and reality. So let me set this straight: GNOME provides the foundation on what Ubuntu is build on, without GNOME there would be no Ubuntu. The suggestion here that GNOME devs can't code or that GNOME is copying from Ubuntu is not only ludicrous and far from reality but also does come across as very ungrateful.

MCVenom

August 1st, 2010, 11:57 PM

i think it would be okay. But the article and some comments here does show that there's a real disconnect between the ubuntu community and reality. So let me set this straight: Gnome provides the foundation on what ubuntu is build on, without gnome there would be no ubuntu. The suggestion here that gnome devs can't code or that gnome is copying from ubuntu is not only ludicrous and far from reality but also does come across as very ungrateful.
+∞

Frak

August 2nd, 2010, 12:28 AM

+∞
+∞*2

Lucradia

August 2nd, 2010, 12:30 AM

I'll take my non-DM/DE setup anyday.

Legendary_Bibo

August 2nd, 2010, 12:33 AM

Perhaps they'll finally be happy because they have their own distro that they can tell what goes into it, and if we all play nicely and install next to Ubuntu on our hard drives then maybe they'll let some contributions from Canonical go upstream.

PC_load_letter

August 2nd, 2010, 12:42 AM

I think it would be okay. But the article and some comments here does show that there's a real disconnect between the Ubuntu community and reality. So let me set this straight: GNOME provides the foundation on what Ubuntu is build on, without GNOME there would be no Ubuntu. The suggestion here that GNOME devs can't code or that GNOME is copying from Ubuntu is not only ludicrous and far from reality but also does come across as very ungrateful.

Gnome is a very important part, but still I wouldn't call it a "foundation", that would be the Linux kernel. Where is this "foundation" in Kubuntu? Plus, as other have already mentioned, Canonical provides lots of tweaks and enhancements to Gnome.

As for the Gnome OS idea, I honestly think it's a distraction from what the Gnome team should be focusing on. With Linux comes freedom and all, blah blah blah, but then a bunch of crazy horses running everywhere, they are also free, but what do they accomplish?

To end users like myself, many opt for stability, not just the technical term but the fact that I don't have to relearn and reinvent the wheel every few months to do the same tasks. They already pushed the Gnome 3 due date till early 2011, and that's may be a good thing because I don't think users will cut them a lot of slack if they missed it up.

IMHO, if Linux is to appeal to more people, then it's got to have, fewer, focused, dominant, and flawlessly WORKING SOLUTIONS (distros). This takes a lot of effort and collaboration, the Gnome OS idea seems to me like going in the opposite direction.

HappinessNow

August 2nd, 2010, 12:44 AM

Any reasons why? What could a Gnome OS provide that Ubuntu would not be able to?don't be so ubuntu-centric in your thought process, it is better to be Open. ;)

PC_load_letter

August 2nd, 2010, 12:48 AM

I'll take my non-DM/DE setup anyday.

Good for you, but I'm sure for every "you" there are 10 Linux users who wouldn't, or actually couldn't because they do not have the time to install/tweak/relearn/debug their own DM/DE.

Legendary_Bibo

August 2nd, 2010, 12:50 AM

IMHO, if Linux is to appeal to more people, then it's got to have, fewer, focused, dominant, and flawlessly WORKING SOLUTIONS (distros). This takes a lot of effort and collaboration, the Gnome OS idea seems to me like going in the opposite direction.

Agreed indefinitely. We have a lot of distros out there, but none of them are perfect. I know we have this freedom to create our own distro, but we should change our ways for a bit and now come together.

Frak

August 2nd, 2010, 12:52 AM

Gnome is a very important part, but still I wouldn't call it a "foundation", that would be the Linux kernel. Where is this "foundation" in Kubuntu? Plus, as other have already mentioned, Canonical provides lots of tweaks and enhancements to Gnome.

As for the Gnome OS idea, I honestly think it's a distraction from what the Gnome team should be focusing on. With Linux comes freedom and all, blah blah blah, but then a bunch of crazy horses running everywhere, they are also free, but what do they accomplish?

To end users like myself, many opt for stability, not just the technical term but the fact that I don't have to relearn and reinvent the wheel every few months to do the same tasks. They already pushed the Gnome 3 due date till early 2011, and that's may be a good thing because I don't think users will cut them a lot of slack if they missed it up.

IMHO, if Linux is to appeal to more people, then it's got to have, fewer, focused, dominant, and flawlessly WORKING SOLUTIONS (distros). This takes a lot of effort and collaboration, the Gnome OS idea seems to me like going in the opposite direction.
I think it would be a good showcase of Gnome's capabilities. Nobody can show off a work better than the author. If Gnome wants to show how and why something is, they would have the avenue to do it.

PC_load_letter

August 2nd, 2010, 12:56 AM

I think it would be a good showcase of Gnome's capabilities. Nobody can show off a work better than the author. If Gnome wants to show how and why something is, they would have the avenue to do it.

But then the question is, do they have the resources/vision to do a good job at it? I'm skeptical, but I could be wrong of course.

amauk

August 2nd, 2010, 01:01 AM

I don't see this as any different to Chakra
http://chakra-project.org/

But instead of Arch + KDE, it's Ubuntu + Gnome

forrestcupp

August 2nd, 2010, 01:30 AM

I think it would be okay. But the article and some comments here does show that there's a real disconnect between the Ubuntu community and reality. So let me set this straight: GNOME provides the foundation on what Ubuntu is build on, without GNOME there would be no Ubuntu. The suggestion here that GNOME devs can't code or that GNOME is copying from Ubuntu is not only ludicrous and far from reality but also does come across as very ungrateful.
First, I agree with PC_load_letter. Gnome is not Ubuntu's foundation. A thousand different things make up Ubuntu's foundation. Gnome, the Linux kernel, and X are just big parts of that foundation. And people using Kubuntu would probably object to that statement. ;)

Secondly, I don't think the disconnect is caused by people accusing Ubuntu of copying from Ubuntu. The problem is that they are not copying from Ubuntu. They rejected some good things that Ubuntu has developed in favor of recreating the wheel themselves. I think that is where the offense comes from. The people who think Gnome devs can't code are just people who are disgruntled about Gnome Shell or something.

But I'm all for a Gnome OS. They'll create everything to work perfectly with Gnome, so it will end up much more stable and streamlined.

cariboo

August 2nd, 2010, 02:55 AM

Frak

August 2nd, 2010, 03:01 AM

I think the gnome devs may be shooting themselves in the foot. Many of the devs that work on gnome, work for RedHat and Novell, how are they going to feel about their employees working on a competing distribution?
Considering Gnome targets the desktop, I see no hard feelings. Both RedHat and Novell see very little in the desktop space. Arguably Novell does a bit, but they're still enterprise-centric.

dummy910

August 2nd, 2010, 03:05 AM

a Gnome OS would surely outperform and of course would crash a lot less than say, a KDE Operating System.....

AllRadioisDead

August 2nd, 2010, 03:35 AM

Yuck.

nrs

August 2nd, 2010, 03:40 AM

I think that ship sailed a long time ago. If it started out that way it probably would've been a good idea but I don't think you can put the 'tribalism' genie back in the bottle.

Plus, I think GNOME has enough manpower issues, they don't need to taking on managing a distribution.

YuiDaoren

August 2nd, 2010, 03:42 AM

I think this will be interesting.

As I see it, the GNOME OS idea is going to be more of a top-down approach to an OS. Instead of starting at the kernel and reducing focus up to to desktop, they appear to be starting at the desktop and building the underpinnings to fit. A sound idea.

I can't say if it would necessarily better or worse than bottom-up, but it should be interesting to find out.

handy

August 2nd, 2010, 06:31 AM

This thread is named poorly, it sounds like the Gnome team are going to create their own kernel.

As far as a Gnome distro goes, who cares?

It will be useful to some & not to others just like all of the other distros & systems at large.

cchhrriiss121212

August 2nd, 2010, 09:20 AM

don't be so ubuntu-centric in your thought process, it is better to be Open. ;)
:o
It seems I did not explain myself very well. I was not attempting to start some flame-war (Ubuntu is not even my main OS), I am am genuinely curious as to what a Gnome OS would be like to use and why someone can say it is a good idea before it has even started development.
There are some good reasons posted here about stability and included apps, but as a relative newcomer to Linux I am confused when the community gets exited over a proposed new OS. Aren't there enough distros out there? And I'm sure many of them will be working on the same features at the same time.

Ubuntu doesn't really matter in the discussion of a Gnome OS; it'd kinda be like asking "What would a Gnome OS do that Windows/OSX would not be able to?". :razz:
To someone who has only ever used Windows or OSX, I think that is a perfectly valid question.

loell

August 2nd, 2010, 09:31 AM

wasn't Foresight linux "The" Gnome OS?
It never really gained that much user. ;)

Stancel

August 2nd, 2010, 09:46 AM

I think the gnome devs may be shooting themselves in the foot.
:p haha.

I wonder why their logo is a foot. Any reason for that?

Macskeeball

August 2nd, 2010, 11:50 AM

:p haha.

I wonder why their logo is a foot. Any reason for that?

Well, yeah! That's because it stinks!

Kidding, I don't have a problem with Gnome and it's what I use. It was just such an easy joke to make.

Spice Weasel

August 2nd, 2010, 12:19 PM

Yay! More bloatware to be released in the Linux world! :D

SoFl W

August 2nd, 2010, 12:26 PM

I think all this is foolish, let's go back to the command line only interface.

Macskeeball

August 2nd, 2010, 12:29 PM

I think all this is foolish, let's go back to the command line only interface.

Command line? Nah, let's go back to ENIAC.

xir_

August 2nd, 2010, 02:08 PM

I remember reading somewhere that both gnome and KDE sacrifice some performance by not directly tying into certain available hooks found in linux, instead tending to focus on providing support for other operating systems like the BSD's.

It would be interesting as a linux user to see what would happen if gnome did go down this route, but i would imagine that it would upset the other operating system communities.

Anyone know any more about this?

flukeairwalker

August 2nd, 2010, 02:29 PM

Not interested unless there is a KDE version.

forrestcupp

August 2nd, 2010, 02:53 PM

I remember reading somewhere that both gnome and KDE sacrifice some performance by not directly tying into certain available hooks found in linux, instead tending to focus on providing support for other operating systems like the BSD's.

Good point. I wonder if they would still support BSD, OpenSolaris, etc.

If they do, it seems like that would contradict the whole point of having their own OS.

JDShu

August 2nd, 2010, 02:53 PM

Not interested unless there is a KDE version.

Nice :P

I think it would be cool. Would really depend on if they could pull it off.

Lucradia

August 2nd, 2010, 04:45 PM

Well, yeah! That's because it stinks!

Kidding, I don't have a problem with Gnome and it's what I use. It was just such an easy joke to make.

GNOME has a foot because, like Ubuntu's slogan, GNOME is for people/humans.

mickie.kext

August 2nd, 2010, 05:07 PM

Gnome wants to create it's own distro, for developers, hackers, artists, whoever that will probably ship with pure, unchanged Gnome and Gnome apps (like Epiphany instead of Firefox).

Umm, there is a thing called Foresight Linux (http://www.foresightlinux.org/) and it does exactly what you described.

snowpine

August 2nd, 2010, 05:14 PM

Umm, there is a thing called Foresight Linux (http://www.foresightlinux.org/) and it does exactly what you described.

Except that Foresight is dead (or maybe just sleeping)... last release was Gnome 2.26 so it is not really a good "showcase" for the latest developments. Maybe that is why the Gnome Project is taking over the reigns. ;)

mickie.kext

August 2nd, 2010, 05:24 PM

Except that Foresight is dead (or maybe just sleeping)... last release was Gnome 2.26 so it is not really a good "showcase" for the latest developments. Maybe that is why the Gnome Project is taking over the reigns. ;)

Hmm... I missed that part. Shame :(

FuturePilot

August 2nd, 2010, 05:25 PM

GNOME has a foot because, like Ubuntu's slogan, GNOME is for people/humans.

Since when did people have 4 toes? ;)

Tristam Green

August 2nd, 2010, 06:07 PM

GNOME has a foot because, like Ubuntu's slogan, GNOME is for people/humans.

GNOME = 1999
Ubuntu = 2004

YeOK

August 2nd, 2010, 06:45 PM

I don't think he was talking about an OS, more a Gnome App store approach. A developer would be able to use the Gnome SDK and deploy his application on any distribution. Without a distribution specific build being required.

Ubuntu would still be able to package its extra's, everybody else would be free to reject them, yet we'd be able to use the same applications from the gnome app store.

Its a good idea but not a new one. Google Chrome / Chrome OS will do the same thing, mobile devices are already all over it.

JDShu

August 2nd, 2010, 06:50 PM

GNOME = 1999
Ubuntu = 2004

umm... ok?

MCVenom

August 2nd, 2010, 07:05 PM

Umm, there is a thing called Foresight Linux (http://www.foresightlinux.org/) and it does exactly what you described.
Well don't shoot me, did I recommend Gnome make it's own OS? :lolflag:

I really don't get what exactly they want to do or why they want to do it, we're all just trying to puzzle it out (unless someone was at the presentation and could clarify for us).

MCVenom

August 2nd, 2010, 07:06 PM

umm... ok?
I'm a bit lost here as well. :P

MasterGamerJK

August 2nd, 2010, 07:09 PM

we already have that.... its called debian

and if they did make another....it wouldn't be Gnome, cause Gnome is the Interface of the OS,so IF Gnome were the OS the Interface would be the OS and the OS would not be able to process any data and it would need its own UI and thus its a paradox and can possibly happen. Sry

MCVenom

August 2nd, 2010, 07:15 PM

we already have that.... its called debian
Debian uses IceWeasel (Firefox) instead of Epiphany. Point invalidated.

and if they did make another....it wouldn't be Gnome, cause Gnome is the Interface of the OS,so IF Gnome were the OS the Interface would be the OS and the OS would not be able to process any data and it would need its own UI and thus its a paradox and can possibly happen. Sry
Lol wut?

Tristam Green

August 2nd, 2010, 07:19 PM

Lucradia's statement about the Gnome foot logo in relation to the Ubuntu mantra implies that GNOME has a foot logo *because* Ubuntu is "for humans". This is incorrect.

JDShu

August 2nd, 2010, 07:24 PM

ah. linguistic wrangling.

cariboo

August 2nd, 2010, 07:42 PM

Doesn't this go against what the Gnome Foundation was set up for.

Gnome Foundation (http://foundation.gnome.org/).

forrestcupp

August 2nd, 2010, 08:27 PM

Doesn't this go against what the Gnome Foundation was set up for.

Gnome FOundation (http://foundation.gnome.org/).

Maybe, but considering how they have been thinking about removing themselves from the GNU project, a lot of ideals are changing and I guess that doesn't really matter anymore.

CJ Master

August 3rd, 2010, 06:20 AM

I hope it's rolling release.

Frak

August 3rd, 2010, 06:47 AM

I hope it's rolling release.
Knowing Gnome, they'd go for slightly unstable, but tested.

neoargon

August 3rd, 2010, 12:13 PM

neoargon

August 3rd, 2010, 12:19 PM

GNOME has a foot because, like Ubuntu's slogan, GNOME is for people/humans.
But that's not a human foot . It's the foot of a monkey

NewDisciple

August 3rd, 2010, 07:11 PM

Would they continue to provide desktop support to other distros? If not, it would be a case of shooting themselves in the foot. (Sorry about that.)

splicerr

August 3rd, 2010, 09:06 PM

The GNOME community is a typical free software community . There is a tendency of considering the users as idiots . So I suppose it wouldn't be as successful as Ubuntu where the community is much more friendly

The GNOME community is mostly a community of developers, the Ubuntu community is mostly a community of people having a free lunch. The Ubuntu community might be more friendly to newbies, but they don't bring any food (read: code) to the table.

Frak

August 3rd, 2010, 09:12 PM

The GNOME community is mostly a community of developers, the Ubuntu community is mostly a community of people having a free lunch. The Ubuntu community might be more friendly to newbies, but they don't bring any food (read: code) to the table.
I could see a Gnome distro coming with tools such as MonoDevelop and Anjuta. It could be a completely neutral platform for Gnome to develop and extend its features, regardless of the distro maintainer.

KiwiNZ

August 3rd, 2010, 09:15 PM