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View Full Version : Would you ever get the implanted RFID ?



sudoer541
July 31st, 2010, 09:20 PM
I have been looking how the RFID works and some people south of the border have it implanted under thier skin so they can shop conveniently without having to touch anything.

The pros: This device: its super convenient to shop and lock your doors when you leave the house without even touching anything. + other advantages.

The cons: You may be tracked (for some reason) and your activities may be logged.
Some experts are seeing the RFID as the next successor of money.

So, what are your views on this?
Would you ever get the RFID?

cogar66
July 31st, 2010, 09:24 PM
Inb4 Tin-Foil-Hat-ers.

I would hold off on getting one for as long as possible personally.

TNT1
July 31st, 2010, 09:25 PM
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/06/70308

I aint taking any chances....

nrs
July 31st, 2010, 09:39 PM
Never. And I don't believe in the New World Order or anything like that.

Paqman
July 31st, 2010, 09:56 PM
I don't see why not, if it was genuinely useful. Anybody that's had immunisations has already had their body modified by technology. We're all cyborgs these days.

sudoer541
July 31st, 2010, 11:11 PM
So far, the results look very interesting!!!

Mr. Picklesworth
July 31st, 2010, 11:18 PM
If it meant I didn't need to carry a credit card, ID or money, and the only way someone could steal them from me was by cutting my finger off: YES!

However, knowing how bureaucracies work, that's never going to happen. I would likely have the same wallet as ever, with one more piece of plastic (the “RFID implant wearer certificate”), and getting on the bus would still require a large battery of coins even though the fares by then would be in multiples of $5.

If we lived in a world where such simplicity was possible, nobody would be thinking about RFID tags because all our problems would have been solved already.

handy
August 1st, 2010, 12:59 AM
No way!

Identity theft will become easier. If the system has a failure OR you ****-off the powers that be, you get your chip turned off & become locked out of society, which would turn you into a homeless bum.

There are far too many weaknesses in this system for it to work.

Timmer1240
August 1st, 2010, 02:06 AM
Whoever receives the mark of the beast and worships the beast, will "drink of the wine of the wrath of God . . . be tormented with fire and brimstone . . .for ever and ever" Revelation 14:9-11, 19:20 could this be the mark?dare to chance it?

cariboo
August 1st, 2010, 02:11 AM
Just to forestall anyone reporting Timmer1240's post, remember it is against forum policy to discuss religion.

giddyup306
August 1st, 2010, 02:14 AM
No way Jose (pretend the accent mark is at the end).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X034R3yzDhw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmajlKJlT3U&feature=related

SoFl W
August 1st, 2010, 02:15 AM
These chips will be placed in almost everything soon enough. Walmart is already starting to use them in clothing. (It just might be the tag) They are used in the tire pressure gauges for cars... ever wonder what those square lines are on highways? Those speed pay cards, and ez-pass cards contain the chips.
Besides that your cell phone tracks your GPS data.

You might not get one implanted, but you will carry one with you. You are constantly tracked in everything you do.

pwnst*r
August 1st, 2010, 02:18 AM
Lol, no thanks.

Timmer1240
August 1st, 2010, 02:30 AM
Just to forestall anyone reporting Timmer1240's post, remember it is against forum policy to discuss religion.
Sorry but this stuff scares the heck out of me!

handy
August 1st, 2010, 03:15 AM
...
You might not get one implanted, but you will carry one with you. You are constantly tracked in everything you do.

You can be tracked via any items that you carry with you if they have an RFID chip. That is still a very different thing than having one implanted at birth (as some people have already had done to their new born babies in the US).

A cashless society operating on RFID implants really is just too much for me to swallow (thankfully I won't live long enough to see that one get too far). Though it certainly would make it very convenient for the BIG bankers & their ilk.

sudoer541
August 1st, 2010, 03:26 AM
The results are getting more interesting!

11% said yes
77% said no
and 11 % are on the fence!!!


Personally, I wouldn't get one because I dont like being tracked and controlled.
I dont care if there is an RFID on my cellphone, as long as its not under my skin...I would of felt like... an Android!!!:p:)

I was thinking... how would I survive if money became obsolete and my only option would be the RFID (Which I would not get!!!) :rolleyes:

cartman640
August 1st, 2010, 03:28 AM
I'd say no, I like the idea of having a cashless/keyless system, but I'd rather pay or unlock a door with my cellphone than my finger.

Also, RFID chips are passive, which means they can't be encrypted, so anyone with a scanner could steal the information on it with little more than a handshake or bumping into you in a crowded area.

lisati
August 1st, 2010, 03:36 AM
Just to forestall anyone reporting Timmer1240's post, remember it is against forum policy to discuss religion.

+1.

Even without the forum policy about religion, other forum rules don't allow me to fully voice what I think.

What I'll say instead is this: let's not get side-tracked by FUD.

kajankow
August 1st, 2010, 03:45 AM
The cons: You may be tracked (for some reason) and your activities may be logged.

Nuff said. I like my privacy.

sudoer541
August 1st, 2010, 04:01 AM
Nuff said. I like my privacy.


Good answer, but what about if that little thing replaces money (according to the experts)?
I would prefer to live in a third world country if I cant use my regular money!!!

handy
August 1st, 2010, 04:10 AM
Every time a taller fence is built, people build longer ladders.

The black market thrives on limitations.

kajankow
August 1st, 2010, 04:29 AM
Good answer, but what about if that little thing replaces money (according to the experts)?
I would prefer to live in a third world country if I cant use my regular money!!!

Well money has started to all be electronic now any way with debit cards and credit cards. But I agree, paper currency and coins is best. It is hard to keep counterfeiting that and stealing it then hacking stuff to get numbers that are not backed up by anything.

Timmer1240
August 1st, 2010, 04:51 AM
I see this as being branded much like cattle we are not cattle we are humans this is just another way to control us!I just dont think the government has OUR best interests in mind with this technology!

giddyup306
August 1st, 2010, 04:56 AM
I see this as being branded much like cattle we are not cattle we are humans this is just another way to control us!I just dont think the government has OUR best interests in mind with this technology!


It's not just the government. Plus no one is forcing you to get them installed in your body.

Stancel
August 1st, 2010, 05:07 AM
I have been looking how the RFID works and some people south of the border have it implanted under thier skin so they can shop conveniently without having to touch anything.
How is it "convenient" to shop without touching anything? Sounds really lazy, but I doubt what you describe is really true.



The pros: This device: its super convenient to shop and lock your doors when you leave the house without even touching anything. + other advantages.
Um...there is also fingerprint scanner, retina scanners, voice identification, facial recognition and other identification, RFID is not necessary for this.



Some experts are seeing the RFID as the next successor of money.

How is a microchip going to be the successor to money? Electronic money is still money, even if you never touch it in a physical form.



So, what are your views on this?
Would you ever get the RFID?
Absolutely not.

Dustin2128
August 1st, 2010, 06:37 AM
No. Just no.
Maybe, just maybe in a watch or something for touch free shopping but I would rig the watch with capacitors so it can produce a high voltage shock, frying the RFID at my leisure.

chessnerd
August 1st, 2010, 06:45 AM
I don't like the idea of any sort of cyborg implants. The current state of human-robot relations is already close enough without it getting, literally, under my skin.

I recently read a book about how technology is shaping our lives and it does scare me a bit. People pour their entire existence onto Facebook and work constantly in front of computer screens. Call me a Neo-Transcendentalist, but I think that H. D. Thoreau got it right. We don't need RFID tags to make our lives easier, we need less stuff in our lives to really appreciate them.

Paqman
August 1st, 2010, 07:04 AM
For those of you saying no, how is this actually any different to having the same chip embedded in a card in your wallet? Or using your phone to pay?

Personally I always carry a phone, a couple of cards with RFIDs, and a few magnetic cards. We're all constantly actively tracked through our phones, with no privacy issue. The RFID cards can really only be used to track you if you passed very close to a reader. Both RFID and magnetic cards register your location when you use them (to open a door, pass through a barrier on public transport, pay for an item, etc). None of the things people have objected to for an implanted RFID chip are any different to what we currently have with cellphones, RFID cards and magnetic cards.

I think the part that people actually object to is not the RFID technology itself, but the idea of it being implanted. I see that as a complete non-issue.

Paqman
August 1st, 2010, 07:09 AM
I don't like the idea of any sort of cyborg implants.

Would you refuse a pacemaker if you had a bad heart, or titanium pins and screws if your bones got smashed?

As I mentioned earlier, if you've had your physiology altered by a manufacturing process, you're already a cyborg. All of us alive today have technologically enhanced immune systems.

I don't really think you can avoid being a cyborg in the modern world.

Dustin2128
August 1st, 2010, 07:15 AM
Would you refuse a pacemaker if you had a bad heart, or titanium pins and screws if your bones got smashed?

As I mentioned earlier, if you've had your physiology altered by a manufacturing process, you're already a cyborg. All of us alive today have technologically enhanced immune systems.

I don't really think you can avoid being a cyborg in the modern world.
I figure with coming advancements, you'll have a lot more pseudo-amish. Basically this group says 'the line must be drawn here!' at fixing health issues while the next group draws the line somewhere further along, at life extension, etc.

Paqman
August 1st, 2010, 07:20 AM
I figure with coming advancements, you'll have a lot more pseudo-amish. Basically this group says 'the line must be drawn here!' at fixing health issues while the next group draws the line somewhere further along, at life extension, etc.

Well, nobody's objected to medical advances so far. As long as the pace of change isn't too quick, people will be fine with it IMO. If you jumped back a few hundred years you probably would find people who found the surgeries we do for things like scoliosis and hip replacements a bit stomach-churning, but no one bats an eyelid these days.

Dustin2128
August 1st, 2010, 08:04 AM
Well, nobody's objected to medical advances so far. As long as the pace of change isn't too quick, people will be fine with it IMO. If you jumped back a few hundred years you probably would find people who found the surgeries we do for things like scoliosis and hip replacements a bit stomach-churning, but no one bats an eyelid these days.
Yeah, but that's the point, the speed of technological advances is increasing not remaining the same. After self-improving machines come on to the scene, technological advancements will be exponential.

handy
August 1st, 2010, 08:23 AM
For those of you saying no, how is this actually any different to having the same chip embedded in a card in your wallet? Or using your phone to pay?

Think about that question?

It is different in so many ways. & believe it or not, many people (I'm one) have never owned a mobile phone & don't want one. You don't have to carry your cards or wallet everywhere.

The thing that I object to is centralised government, where more & more power & information continues to be in the hands of a very small minority of the worlds population. Such a situation is very unhealthy, as can already be seen by the irresponsible & self serving practices of our corporate controlled national & international government bodies.

Dustin2128
August 1st, 2010, 08:53 AM
Think about that question?

It is different in so many ways. & believe it or not, many people (I'm one) have never owned a mobile phone & don't want one. You don't have to carry your cards or wallet everywhere.

The thing that I object to is centralised government, where more & more power & information continues to be in the hands of a very small minority of the worlds population. Such a situation is very unhealthy, as can already be seen by the irresponsible & self serving practices of our corporate controlled national & international government bodies.
Agreed. Decentralization is great in every field: the power grid, operating systems, [edited out so the thread isn't closed on my account].

Åtta
August 1st, 2010, 11:10 AM
Maybe not RFID specifically, because of the limitations of the technology. However, I'm not opposed to the idea itself. I'm already giving away a bunch of my personal information via various internet services, my cellphone and using my credit card. If it would allow me to not have to carry around a wallet, I'd be all for it.

BigSilly
August 1st, 2010, 11:33 AM
Agreed. Decentralization is great in every field: the power grid, operating systems, [edited out so the thread isn't closed on my account].

Off topic, but Dustin, I love your 2012 page in your sig. I think we really need it. People are nuts on the subject, and it makes no sense.

giddyup306
August 1st, 2010, 11:49 AM
Off topic, but Dustin, I love your 2012 page in your sig. I think we really need it. People are nuts on the subject, and it makes no sense.

If we could talk about politics here, I'd say which ones believe in that nonsense. ;) The Penn & Teller "B.S.!" episode was pretty good on the 2012 myth.

SagnaB
August 1st, 2010, 12:21 PM
I would rather be a fugitive than have one "installed".

If you're worried about being tracked, you've got more to worry about than sub-dermal micro-chips.
Do you carry a cell/mobile phone? Triangulation.
Have a facebook? Self explanatory. (there's a reason why they're involved in lawsuits all the time) [1]
Do you use reward card is stores? IE: fly-buys etc. Statistic analysis.
Do you have your face visible when in public places? Many capital cities (and shopping centres) use facial recognition software with their surveillance systems. [2][3]
Do you drive a vehicle? This is an alarmingly increasing trend. Many capital cites have road-side cameras that are able to "read" licence plates and new "911" laws make this type of civilian tracking 100% legal. [4]
Not to mention, tracking cookies, super-cookies AKA flash-cookies and other online threats that Linux is even susceptible to. (Carnivore, Magic Lantern) [6][7][8][9][10]

The RFID implant would just make it simpler and easier than the above mentioned methods. Integrating it into society via credit-card replacement is mere propaganda making you believe it's helpful when it is not. The only one it would help is the tracker.

There will come a time when we're all criminals, as a matter of fact as far as the global governments are concerned, we already are. Hence the reason the legal system is so disorganised and coorupt. (Fighting fire with fire)

But hey, "if you don't do anything wrong, you've got nothing to worry about." Right? --said the Officer of Fatherland Security...

I am not trying to feed anyone's paranoia here, so if you feel threatened by this post, tell yourself "SagnaB is clueless".


Links:
1.http://www.google.com/search?q=facebook+privacy+lawsuit
2.http://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/feature-face-recognition-technology
3.http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2002/feb/surveillance/020225.surveillance.html
4.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_number_plate_recognition
5.http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html
6.https://litigation-essentials.lexisnexis.com/webcd/app?action=DocumentDisplay&crawlid=1&crawlid=1&doctype=cite&docid=47+B.C.+L.+Rev+505&srctype=smi&srcid=3B15&key=457432b2332592766635c296bc4cdab5
7.http://www.cfif.org/htdocs/freedomline/current/in_our_opinion/f_l_genie.htm
8.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Lantern_%28software%29
9.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A
10.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON



Please let me know if my post is over-the-line so I may edit it so as not to get myself in trouble with the Mods etc..

Paqman
August 1st, 2010, 10:00 PM
It is different in so many ways.


The only difference is that it's always on you. Personally, my wallet is always on me whenever I leave the house. So the difference is really only philosophical IMO.


believe it or not, many people (I'm one) have never owned a mobile phone & don't want one.

I'd say you're becoming an increasingly rare breed. A knew a couple of people who didn't have a phone a few years ago. Now I don't know anybody.

The fact that they're tracked has proved to not be an issue privacy-wise. Sure, the phone company tracks you, but the boring reality is that the only thing they're actually interested in doing with that information is providing you the service you pay for.


You don't have to carry your cards or wallet everywhere.

Sure, but it's a bit impractical not to.



The thing that I object to is centralised government, where more & more power & information continues to be in the hands of a very small minority of the worlds population. Such a situation is very unhealthy

That's a separate issue. Nobody is suggesting that the government would be the ones implanting people with chips. I think you're far more likely to see the technology used for things like access control to secure buildings or public transport. Banking is an option, as the OP mentions.

Penguin Guy
August 1st, 2010, 10:35 PM
You cannot be tracked with RFID any more than you can be with a credit card as RFID works at a very close range.
RFID does the same thing implanted or not, so unless the world goes crazy you'll always have the option of external RFID.
@Paqman (http://ubuntuforums.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif): RFID is completely different to immunization.
RFID is wireless. Anyone you walk past in the street can read the data on your RFID.

As for whether I'd have an implanted RFID: No, not unless the world went crazy.

Paqman
August 2nd, 2010, 12:18 AM
@Paqman (http://ubuntuforums.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif): RFID is completely different to immunization.

My point was that we all already have submitted to a certain amount of technological intervention in our bodies. People get squeamish about the idea of implanting a chip which doesn't interact with any of the body's systems, but will quite happily inject something which modifies their immune system. The fact is that using technology to modify our bodies has become so mundane that people forget it's going on.



RFID is wireless. Anyone you walk past in the street can read the data on your RFID.


Only if they walk really, really close. The RFID cards I carry have a range of a couple of centimetres, tops.

Dustin2128
August 2nd, 2010, 12:26 AM
Off topic, but Dustin, I love your 2012 page in your sig. I think we really need it. People are nuts on the subject, and it makes no sense.
Thanks, but disclaimer- it's not my page, I just linked to it.

forrestcupp
August 2nd, 2010, 02:05 AM
Just to forestall anyone reporting Timmer1240's post, remember it is against forum policy to discuss religion.
It's kind of a long shot to allow a thread like this to go on and expect religion to never be mentioned. It's like the elephant in the room here.


The only difference is that it's always on you. Personally, my wallet is always on me whenever I leave the house. So the difference is really only philosophical IMO.

Sure, but it's a bit impractical not to.
Sure, but if you're on the run, it's a lot easier to ditch your wallet than it is to cut a chip out of your skin. ;)



Only if they walk really, really close. The RFID cards I carry have a range of a couple of centimetres, tops.
Even though it's a lot closer range than what people are saying, it's quite a bit more than a couple of centimeters. My wife's parking garage opens by her badge. All she has to do is have her badge on the dash and it opens when she drives up.

JohnnyC35
August 2nd, 2010, 02:09 AM
I would but only after I get an adapter installed so I can install kung fu directly into my brain

forrestcupp
August 2nd, 2010, 02:12 AM
I would but only after I get an adapter installed so I can install kung fu directly into my brain

"Jujitsu? I'm going to learn ... Jujitsu?"

handy
August 2nd, 2010, 02:14 AM
The only difference is that it's always on you. Personally, my wallet is always on me whenever I leave the house. So the difference is really only philosophical IMO.

For you it may be only philosophical. Various philosophical tenets held by governing powers have caused the deaths of millions of people in the past & are currently responsible for the criminal inequity in regards to the sharing of wealth on this tiny planet.

Another point on philosophy is that many people find that throughout their lives their personal philosophical positions change dramatically; often, later in life when people look back they are astounded to see just how much of a change the various facets of their philosophies did change. Which is normal - "live & learn" & all that.



I'd say you're becoming an increasingly rare breed. A knew a couple of people who didn't have a phone a few years ago. Now I don't know anybody.

Perhaps. & you are all for extinction. If so you have come to the right planet at the right time.

Big money banking cartels are the prime governors of our planet. They would dearly love to have all people chipped & do away with cash. This would make them far more profitable, there would be far less tax evasion, people would be under far more scrutiny with such a unified system. It is big brother's dream come true.

I see no need for people to be implanted with identity chips & to have our societies relying on them in all of the ways that they could. There is no gain for such a system for the general population; the primary gain of this system is that of moving capital up the pyramid of power more efficiently than it is now. This only benefits those at the top end of the pyramid.

sdowney717
August 2nd, 2010, 02:27 AM
RFID killer chip with GPS
http://beforeitsnews.com/story/79/982/Saudi_Killer_Chip_RFID_Implant_Would_Track,_Elimin ate_Kill_Undesirables.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,520331,00.html

lets the government track and if it wishes erase you.

This is the type of thing that will happen someday somewhere.
Now the UAE wants to ban Blackberries because they cant put software on them to see what your doing.
In some societies, control of the population has utmost security concerns for the ruling powers

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-10761210

Superkoop
August 2nd, 2010, 02:56 AM
I voted Yes. Not that I really appreciate the idea, but honestly it's not a whole lot different from the money we carry in our pockets anyway. It's pretty easy to pickpocket someone or check someone's trash on the curb for personal info, so the argument about being able to scan someone and steal there money is a bit null, it's plenty easy to do it today, and it doesn't even require fancy equipment.
About being a cyborg... I'm not sure what the problem is... Like Shania would say: That don't impress me much.
Concerning being tracked, stop being so freaking paranoid, nobody really cares where you are at all times, your not a big deal, your parents lied to you. You have RFID tags in so many other things, and it's so easy to track people in other ways... Anyways, if your in trouble with the law, and need to run away, you'll probably screw with your fingerprints, so why not a chip as well?
My only concern would be placing all of my hope in the electronic money, and what happens if it all goes to crap? But I thought about it reasonably, and it's no different from modern day cash. All of our money is the Government's anyways, and so if the government goes to crap, our current money is going to crash anyways.

If you want something safe, you need to possess things that will not lose all of their wealth, such as land or gold... You will need to go back to the bartering system, which is just as flawed.

prodigy_
August 2nd, 2010, 04:07 AM
They'll have to kill me first.

mamamia88
August 2nd, 2010, 04:51 AM
metal gear solid comes to mind so no way

Paqman
August 2nd, 2010, 06:39 AM
Even though it's a lot closer range than what people are saying, it's quite a bit more than a couple of centimeters. My wife's parking garage opens by her badge. All she has to do is have her badge on the dash and it opens when she drives up.

I guess it depends on the chip. The one I use for my building at work and the one for London's transport system (Oyster) both have to be placed flat against the reader. That seems like it'd be the way to go for an implanted chip, too.

FWIW I don't think you could replace cash with an RFID any more than cards have replaced it. Most people prefer to use cash for the smaller transactions, and a card for larger ones. I don't really think switching to an implanted chip would change that.

SagnaB
August 2nd, 2010, 06:42 AM
Just a thought,
What happens if you have a sub-dermal RFID and you need an MRI?

What happens then? lol

Also: Here's a page about RFID-Zappers
https://events.ccc.de/congress/2005/static/r/f/i/RFID-Zapper%28EN%29_77f3.html - the site uses a certificate that firefox doesn't like, enter at own risk

Funny Quote: "The RFID-Zapper might cause you to feel armed against companies or governments trying to compromise your privacy. You might even experience euphoria, especially when destroying RFID-Tags. This could lead to dangerous behavior, like speaking your mind, using freedom of speech, fighting for your rights, all of which are bound to ultimately lead to the communist world revolution"

LMAO

forrestcupp
August 2nd, 2010, 02:46 PM
FWIW I don't think you could replace cash with an RFID any more than cards have replaced it. Most people prefer to use cash for the smaller transactions, and a card for larger ones. I don't really think switching to an implanted chip would change that.I actually use a card or online transfers for everything possible. It kind of made me mad last week when I had to have a few dollars cash to file some paperwork at the courthouse. I hardly ever carry any cash at all.


Just a thought,
What happens if you have a sub-dermal RFID and you need an MRI?

What happens then? lolGood point. :)

sdowney717
August 2nd, 2010, 03:22 PM
What happens if you have a sub-dermal RFID and you need an MRI?

It will likely heat up, burn hot and it will rip right thru your skin

whiskeylover
August 2nd, 2010, 03:26 PM
Just a thought,
What happens if you have a sub-dermal RFID and you need an MRI?

What happens then? lol



It will likely heat up, burn hot and it will rip right thru your skin

Nothing happens to the MRI, or the RFID. It doesn't heat up. It doesn't explode. I though the Mythbusters did an episode on this very topic. Stop spreading FUD.

sdowney717
August 2nd, 2010, 03:31 PM
http://orthopedics.about.com/od/hipkneereplacement/f/mri.htm

it all depends how magnetic or magnetizable the thing is in your body as to how much damage it would cause.
http://www.medic8.com/healthguide/articles/MRI.html
pacemakers ore out due to electronic components
an rfid is also an electronic device.


Ferromagnetic foreign bodies (e.g. shell fragments), or metallic implants (e.g. surgical prostheses, aneurysm clips) are also potential risks, and safety aspects need to be considered on an individual basis. Interaction of the magnetic and radiofrequency fields with such objects can lead to: trauma due to movement of the object in the magnetic field, thermal injury from radio-frequency induction heating of the object, or failure of an implanted device. These issues are especially problematic when dealing with the eye. Most MRI centers require an orbital x-ray be performed on anyone who suspects they may have small metal fragments in their eyes, perhaps from a previous accident, something not uncommon in metalworking.

radio frequency induction heating, kind a like those new stoves that heat up metal pots.


Hey, Doc, we just put the patient in thee MRI, Started the test, and he is screaming about something burning and says it feels like it is pulling on his skin

Grenage
August 2nd, 2010, 03:32 PM
Hell yes, it would be convenient - if the applications were there.

Paqman
August 2nd, 2010, 03:59 PM
Just a thought,
What happens if you have a sub-dermal RFID and you need an MRI?

What happens then? lol


Then you'd be in a hospital. If it's just under the skin it'd be a five minute job to take it out.

alphaniner
August 2nd, 2010, 07:15 PM
I'd join Edgar Friendly in the sewers before I'd get tagged.

forrestcupp
August 2nd, 2010, 08:31 PM
Then you'd be in a hospital. If it's just under the skin it'd be a five minute job to take it out.

Then we'd have to pay an extra five thousand dollars for two surgeries every time we have an MRI, one to take it out and another to put it back in. ;)

Groucho Marxist
August 2nd, 2010, 09:38 PM
Absolutely not.
No conspiracies involved with this opinion; just this. Whatever is available to civilian consumers, you had better believe there are far more powerful versions available to military and government institutions. It's the difference between Google Weather and STRATCOM (United States Strategic Command) weather tracking.

ubunterooster
August 3rd, 2010, 02:24 AM
What I think is simple; I can carry around different kinds of cards like many do now but don't touch my body!

SoFl W
August 7th, 2010, 12:20 AM
You can be tracked via any items that you carry with you if they have an RFID chip. That is still a very different thing than having one implanted at birth (as some people have already had done to their new born babies in the US).
They do it for pets, so people get used to it, and then the next step is "for the children's safety and well being" People will fall for it.


A cashless society operating on RFID implants really is just too much for me to swallow (thankfully I won't live long enough to see that one get too far). Though it certainly would make it very convenient for the BIG bankers & their ilk.
I remember them talking about a cashless society in the 70s. It is getting closer and it is getting closer faster. Think about how people use their debit cards, they must convince people that a chip will be easier and more secure then having to carry the card. People will fall for it.


Nuff said. I like my privacy.
Hope you don't use google.

SoFl W
August 7th, 2010, 12:24 AM
Then you'd be in a hospital. If it's just under the skin it'd be a five minute job to take it out.
We have a TV show in the states called "Mythbusters", one of the people on the show was implanted and had an MRI. Nothing bad happened, it didn't explode and the thing still worked.


... Whatever is available to civilian consumers, you had better believe there are far more powerful versions available to military and government institutions....
A Marxist worried about what the government is doing? I am sure it is for the common good comrade! ;)

linux18
August 7th, 2010, 12:57 AM
no, never. chances are microsoft will be the one programming them.

SoFl W
August 7th, 2010, 01:15 AM
no, never. chances are microsoft will be the one programming them.
So you would be comfortable if some other company programmed them?

Ctrl-Alt-F1
August 7th, 2010, 01:45 AM
At work we have the option to carry around tiny stickers that allow us to access the office. Why, if a tiny not noticeable sticker, can do the same kind of thing, would I want to have a chip in my body?

Dustin2128
August 7th, 2010, 02:54 AM
At work we have the option to carry around tiny stickers that allow us to access the office. Why, if a tiny not noticeable sticker, can do the same kind of thing, would I want to have a chip in my body?
To quote SoFl W, people will fall for it.

SoFl W
August 11th, 2010, 03:28 PM
We are getting one step closer, vending machines testing retinal scans.
http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/your_money/consumer/vending-machines-of-the-future-20100807-lgf
With some places testing out door security systems with the implanted chips, it isn't too far off. When the time comes the government will require all its citizens to have chips installed, the government will insist it is for your own safety.

Tristam Green
August 11th, 2010, 04:05 PM
Would you refuse a pacemaker if you had a bad heart, or titanium pins and screws if your bones got smashed?

As I mentioned earlier, if you've had your physiology altered by a manufacturing process, you're already a cyborg. All of us alive today have technologically enhanced immune systems.

I don't really think you can avoid being a cyborg in the modern world.

Then you'd be refusing medical treatment, which is well within your rights.


I'd join Edgar Friendly in the sewers before I'd get tagged.

SIMON SAYS DIE! :D

As for me, no. Being someone who has had tubes run through his circulatory system, I'm going to have to opt for the Dr. Strangelove stance and say I'd rather not have someone attempting to steal my precious bodily fluids.

handy
August 11th, 2010, 05:27 PM
...
As for me, no. Being someone who has had tubes run through his circulatory system, I'm going to have to opt for the Dr. Strangelove stance and say I'd rather not have someone attempting to steal my precious bodily fluids.

I'm with you all the way, I'd much rather pick someone out to be the recipient of my precious bodily fluids.

KiwiNZ
August 11th, 2010, 07:40 PM
There is advantages especially for carrying vital medical information. It can speak for you when you can not, and trust me I know how vital that that is.

I would have one implanted.

Spice Weasel
August 11th, 2010, 07:57 PM
I wouldn't at the moment. Just the thought of having something electronic under my skin that's not keeping me alive doesn't sound nice to me.

Warpnow
August 11th, 2010, 11:06 PM
Yeah, and the next time I get mugged, they're not gonna want my wallet...and they're gonna have a knife...

handy
August 12th, 2010, 01:16 AM
There is advantages especially for carrying vital medical information. It can speak for you when you can not, and trust me I know how vital that that is.

I would have one implanted.

I would rather wear a dog tag with reference to where my medical records could be found, if it was necessary.

KiwiNZ
August 12th, 2010, 01:22 AM
I would rather wear a dog tag with reference to where my medical records could be found, if it was necessary.

I wear a medic alert bracelet and have a wallet card and on emergency occasions the only times these have been looked at is when my wife has drawn their attention too them.

It is extremely important that Paramedics and Trauma staff look at these in my case and in many cases. So don't rely on them doing so.

mudguts
August 12th, 2010, 01:32 AM
depends where they put it I guess.
finger: yes
foreskin... no.

jcolyn
August 12th, 2010, 03:16 AM
NO................................................ ........

Big Brother has already invaded too much into our private lives...........

handy
August 12th, 2010, 03:33 AM
I wear a medic alert bracelet and have a wallet card and on emergency occasions the only times these have been looked at is when my wife has drawn their attention too them.

It is extremely important that Paramedics and Trauma staff look at these in my case and in many cases. So don't rely on them doing so.

There was a time when I too carried a wallet card. I hadn't considered the not so obvious (to me) fact that paramedics & the like don't bother looking for them. hmm...

TriBlox6432
August 12th, 2010, 03:34 AM
No. It's just another way for the government to spy on us. What happened to PRIVACY?

KiwiNZ
August 12th, 2010, 04:13 AM
There was a time when I too carried a wallet card. I hadn't considered the not so obvious (to me) fact that paramedics & the like don't bother looking for them. hmm...

When I was in Volunteer Search and Rescue and Coastguard I always looked for Medic alert Bracelets etc. Since being on the other side I am shocked at the number that don't.

Once I am in a postion to rejoin those organisations its my intention to make it a Training priority.

handy
August 12th, 2010, 05:05 AM
When I was in Volunteer Search and Rescue and Coastguard I always looked for Medic alert Bracelets etc. Since being on the other side I am shocked at the number that don't.

Once I am in a postion to rejoin those organisations its my intention to make it a Training priority.

Yes, I agree, it really should be drummed into the new recruits in their training, as it could under so many circumstances make the difference between life & death. Even for something seemingly so simple (to an outsider) as an allergy.

KiwiNZ
August 12th, 2010, 05:15 AM
Yes, I agree, it really should be drummed into the new recruits in their training, as it could under so many circumstances make the difference between life & death. Even for something seemingly so simple (to an outsider) as an allergy.

A missed Allergy to say Aspirin and suddenly you are dealing with a life threatening Anaphylactic reaction the patient is in serious trouble.

murderslastcrow
August 12th, 2010, 07:56 AM
The reason money is so viable is because of its light weight and portability. Not everyone in the world will be able to just magically have this, or get the surgery for it. Of course, they can be included in passports, which only goes to show that portability is key.

Especially if someone else wants to take you hostage or something, they can just use you to open a door, rather than having to find something to open it with. Very dangerous.

I think the idea of making transactions simpler is good, but I don't think it requires this loss of privacy. Also, I just don't like putting things in me that don't need to be there.

handy
August 12th, 2010, 08:05 AM
Retinal scans certainly create problems for the owner that don't bear thinking about...

Paqman
August 12th, 2010, 08:50 AM
No. It's just another way for the government to spy on us. What happened to PRIVACY?

Who said anything about the government? :?:

Artemis3
August 12th, 2010, 06:02 PM
I'm worried about how little people know about RFID.

Just because your card needs to be centimeters close to your reader at the entrance door, doesn't mean it can't be read from a little farther away. I think something like a meter can be done, and the difference is how powerful the reader is, not the chip (they are usually passive).

There are readers installed at warehouse gates to pull info from many crates at once, i think there are even readers able to pull this from containers in a passing truck/train car

RFID is disposable. It's better suited for short time needs like tracking shipping, anything longer and the risks are tremendous. That is because frying the chips is way too easy, and unnoticed until too late...

If you use a contact chip such as, iso7816, you are always in control and know exactly when and why someone is reading/writing to it. With RFID, being contactless, you are unable to prevent random people from poking, modifying, or destroying your data, and they don't need to sit next to you for that.

Let me repeat that its very easy for people a meter away from you to fry your RFID chips. If someone fries the RFID on a shipping box, then there is a little delay for manual scanning, not much harm. What if your 1000$ train pass is burnt?, money cards are absolute NO. And the worst thing is you can't prevent it, thats the problem with using contactless chips in the wrong place.

Credit/Debit cards should stick to contact only, it's the only way you can have some sort of control.

Search the web for RFID zappers or hacks and you'll see.
Knowing this, RFID implants are pointless waste, destined for failure.

handy
August 12th, 2010, 06:06 PM
https://events.ccc.de/congress/2005/static/r/f/i/RFID-Zapper%28EN%29_77f3.html

Spice Weasel
August 13th, 2010, 07:41 AM
Who said anything about the government? :?:
Well, any way you look at it two people are going to be producing these. Massive corporations or the government. Take your pick.

magmon
August 13th, 2010, 08:14 AM
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2006/06/70308

I aint taking any chances....

Exactly the point I was going to make.

Paqman
August 13th, 2010, 09:51 AM
Well, any way you look at it two people are going to be producing these. Massive corporations or the government. Take your pick.

RFIDs are cheap and inserting one under the skin would be a simple outpatient procedure. Anybody could offer this as a service, for whatever reason, not just big organisations.

I can understand the paranoia, but I don't think it's actually justified until somebody starts doing something bad. As an idea it actually has some excellent applications, such as the medic alert idea KiwiNZ suggested. Loads of people with medical conditions like diabetes would find this incredibly useful, maybe even a lifesaver.


What if your 1000$ train pass is burnt?,

An example from my personal experience: London has a very successful RFID-based public transport system called Oyster. If your Oyster card dies you can just walk up to the ticket office and get a new one issued. I don't see why s temporary card couldn't be issued to replace a defective implant.

In reality i've never heard of anyone having an RFID card deliberately scrambled. They're far more likely to get damaged from normal wear and tear, or lost. The payoff from scrambling a chip is zero, so there's no motivation for it to become widespread.

NCLI
August 13th, 2010, 10:58 AM
I'd like to get one, sure. I'll just address some of the common counter arguments here:

1. But you can be tracked everywhere you go!!

No more than you can already be tracked when using a credit or debit card. RFID requires the scanner to be quite close to the device, so tracking by satellite or something like that would be impossible.

2. But the government will be able to lock you out from society if it wants to!!

First of all, that would probably only happen if you did something very wrong. Secondly, can't they already do that today?
I mean, they simply have to close our bank account, mark your social security and passport number as invalid in the national database, and viola, you're locked out from society.

3. This offends my religion.
You offend my sense of logic.

handy
August 13th, 2010, 11:34 AM
If anyone wants to become informed about RFID chips, this site has many articles spanning a number of years:

http://www.spychips.com/

akabanekuroido
September 4th, 2010, 07:40 PM
About RFID chips: If you want to be a slave, this is the chance for you to become a real one! The RFID chip can and will be used as the yellow star some people wore decennia ago. Want to how a RFID chip world looks like: Check and read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Perfect_Day Akabane

The Real Dave
September 4th, 2010, 09:20 PM
Actually, I reckon it could be quite useful.

Imagine an Alzheimers sufferer who goes missing, and does not remember who or where he is. He's in an accident and is unable to tell that doctors that he's diabetic or allergic to something. An RFID chip would be probably save his life.

Imagine walking into a shop, collecting your groceries, and walking out. No till, or anything. An automated system totals up your shopping based on each items chip, and charges it to the chip implanted in your arm. This idea was published years ago in Peter Cochrane's (http://www.cochrane.org.uk/) book

RFID chips could give an incredibly personalised experience, tailoring your hotel room, taxi, bus, whatever to your preferences.

You can already be easily controlled by governments. Freeze bank accounts and credit cards, flag your passport, social security number, your car tax and insurance, revoke bus ticket. In fact, people who leave their phone's bluetooth on 24/7 can be hacked from up to 2 miles away, finding their number, their families, work and home numbers, last number dialed, signal to towers etc etc. Your already open and out there. An RFID chip is more secure than that, seeing as it has such a short range.

PS. Perhaps it could be powered by the electric current of your nerves?

Rasa1111
September 4th, 2010, 09:26 PM
not a chance.
not even if it was tried by force. lol

Austin25
September 5th, 2010, 09:33 AM
Possibly, but not for money spending purposes, I would want it to use as a sort of dog tag in case I die.
Also, this (http://hackaday.com/2010/04/19/build-your-own-rfid-reader/) and this (http://hackaday.com/2010/04/18/arduino-rfid-spoofer/).

gnomeuser
September 5th, 2010, 11:41 AM
The current implementations of RFID have really bad security, for that reason I wouldn't get one implanted currently.

I would like to centralize authentication and RFID style technology would allow it in a very neat way. Perhaps currently it is best kept as an "out of body experience", perhaps a necklace or bracelet to start with.

I saw the Shmoocon videos demoing this and ways to defeat it, currently I am not really impressed with the implementations and I wouldn't trust them to provide the required security. Let alone providing security sufficient to replace existing authentication schemes or to be implanted under my skin (uninstalling sounds more painful than apt-get remove)

Someone uk
September 5th, 2010, 01:00 PM
i wouldn't quite get it implanted but i would want an RFID phone etc