Suse?

[hizaguchi]

I've searched the forums and read alot of talk about the differences in Ubuntu and other distros, but I havn't heard much about Suse. I'm not dissatisfied with Ubuntu or anything, but I've been thinking about giving Suse a try on my laptop just to see if it can pull off the suspend to ram trick. I'm worried though, because I've heard that it uses a different kind of package management that isn't as good as apt. I'm also worried that there will be other complications that I don't forsee... such as another learning curve like the one I'm just getting over comming from Windows (though probably not as steep). Anybody tried the recent Suse releases that can give me some pros/cons before I jump in head first?

[WickedImp]

Wow... long time ago I used SuSE (2 years I think). My experience with SuSE was (back then) that it growed the wrong direction. Overloaded distro and they started to change their politics. Now they are owned by Novell. They got a enterprise system and all this 'think big'-stuff. In fact it could be that the products of SuSE work for some companies (hmm... I think if you want to go this direction you can also spend your money for IBM :) ). It didn't work for the one I work for. Back those days we switched to Debian to get our servers run. Less dependencies, less packets, less overhead. The deb package system is a strong one. Apt is making it even better. The way SuSE is using is RPM (Redhat Packet Management) and Yast (Yet another setup Tool). What I like with debian is the way it evolved. See what ubuntu made out of Debian. A mostly stable Desktop system. Easy to use and configure.

But my advise should be: Try to run SuSE. Maybe they will make u happy. But I think they still cook with the same water as anybody else. And this is linux.

Btw... did they switch to X.Org???

[ComplexNumber]

I'm worried though, because I've heard that it uses a different kind of package management that isn't as good as apt. suse also has apt.

i'm using suse 10 at the moment. its very kde-centric whereas ubuntu is for gnome, so it depends upon what suits you. also, the admin tools (ie yast) are the best there is IMO. ubuntu's admin tools are not good.
also, suse is very slow.
on balance, its an excellent distro IMO.

[zachtib]

suse also has apt.

i'm using suse 10 at the moment. its very kde-centric whereas ubuntu is for gnome, so it depends upon what suits you. also, the admin tools (ie yast) are the best there is IMO. ubuntu's admin tools are not good.
also, suse is very slow.
on balance, its an excellent distro IMO.

I used SuSE in the past before switching to Ubuntu, and it was a good distro. I just got sick of KDE, and I hate using Gnome or KDE on a distro that was designed for the other, so I loked for a nice Gnome-based distro and I found Ubuntu.

I am going to give SuSE another try once SuSE Enterprise Desktop comes out, as it uses Gnome by default (Novell Linux Desktop 10). Heck, I'll even buy copy.

[ComplexNumber]

I used SuSE in the past before switching to Ubuntu, and it was a good distro. I just got sick of KDE, and I hate using Gnome or KDE on a distro that was designed for the other, so I loked for a nice Gnome-based distro and I found Ubuntu.
i know what you mean :). i think the same way. gnome had been put very much on the back seat in suse in the past. however, despite what novell may say about keeping kde as the default, i don't believe them because actions speak louder than words. i know as well as they know that ts going to be kde thats going to be taking a back seat in suse from now on. this is a good thing because kde peeves me no end for a million and one reasons. having said that, kde is very good in suse, and i enjoy using it as much as i ever could enjoy using kde. for those reasons, suse has stayed on my hard drive.



I am going to give SuSE another try once SuSE Enterprise Desktop comes out, as it uses Gnome by default (Novell Linux Desktop 10). Heck, I'll even buy copy.
i may do the same.

[briancurtin]

I've searched the forums and read alot of talk about the differences in Ubuntu and other distros, but I havn't heard much about Suse.
if you didnt find talk about SuSE, then im not sure what you were searching for.

[aysiu]

I've searched the forums and read alot of talk about the differences in Ubuntu and other distros, but I havn't heard much about Suse. Try this search (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/search.php?searchid=4649783), then.

[prizrak]

I tried 10 not too long ago and I didn't like it. Interestingly enough it was the GUI admin tools. They didn't give me enough control to change what I wanted to (it botched my video driver instead of using nvidia it was set to use vm) and when I tried to dive into the config file it was hugely bloated and I couldn't really figure my way around it. I actually never liked SuSE not on any try.

[zachtib]

I tried 10 not too long ago and I didn't like it. Interestingly enough it was the GUI admin tools. They didn't give me enough control to change what I wanted to (it botched my video driver instead of using nvidia it was set to use vm) and when I tried to dive into the config file it was hugely bloated and I couldn't really figure my way around it. I actually never liked SuSE not on any try.

The common consensus with YaST (SuSE's GUI admin tool) is that n00bs love it and more experienced linux users hate it (so that must mean you are not a n00b!)
YaST is great for people who don't want to muck with the commandline, but if you know what you're doing, CLI is usually easier.

[mozetti]

I'm a new Ubuntu user (spare a bean or two, guvnah?), and I had tried SuSe about a year ago. I couldn't put my finger on it, but there was something about it that I didn't like. After reading some of your comments, I think it was a combination of not liking YaST (despite being a n00ber) and it felt slow (KDE maybe?) on my Pentium4 2.6G/1G RAM desktop. On top of that, after getting my atmel PCMCIA WiFi card working on my laptop, a YaST upgrade borked it for good.

Of course, I tried Slack after that -- talk about going from one extreme to the other. Got the WiFi card working in that, too - but that's about as far as I got. So, now I'm back in Linux using Ubuntu and I like it. Got my laptop & desktop (XP dualboot) both converted over with no problems.

[hizaguchi]

Try this search (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/search.php?searchid=4649783), then.
Ironically enough, following that link gives me, "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms." ](*,)

I decided to just go ahead and give Suse a try, so I downloaded and installed last night. Since I have a internal wired and wireless cards in my laptop, the setup process got kinda screwy. It wanted to download updates with my wired card (eth0) and refused to use the wireless when the wired one failed to connect (it wasn't plugged in). I figured it was no big deal and that I could just update it manually later... WRONG. Since I chose "skip" at this part of the installation, I ended up with no repositories other than the CD preconfigured. This lead to a couple hours of trying to figure out how to add the repositories manually though YAST (because to copy and paste somebody's /etc/apt/sources.list would be more complicated than using a tool ](*,) , I guess) and having it freeze up if something was wrong with the address I entered. I finally got them all in there and opened the package manager... only to have it lock up the same way on a source that didn't respond!

Anyhow, I liked what I could see of the distro. It didn't seem to be any slower than Kubuntu, but aside from my package problems with YAST it seemed much more polished and didn't have any weird problems (like apps that need root permissions failing to start). But overall it just wasn't worth the trouble of trying to figure out the repositories. I guess I was spoiled on Ubuntu's method of putting everything you need in one, nice, organized place.

I reinstalled Kubuntu later last night... Breezy this time instead of Dapper that I had been running because I was so impressed by the polish of Suse that I wanted something nice and stable. But it's more glitchy than Dapper on my laptop, so I guess there'll be another reinstall tonight.

[Al3xanR0]

I never bothered to try it, I had my fill of using RPM based distros (specifically RedHat/Fedora Mandrake/Mandriva) and their associated dependency nightmares. This of course was long before they implemented their respective package managers (YUM, APT4RPM, URPMI). Nevertheless, "dep hell" as it is termed is what prompted my dramatic shift to Debian then Simply MEPIS, Finally Ubuntu so I suppose I should be grateful. Don't take my word for it, give it a shot for arguments sake at least, however, if you are impressed with Ubuntu thus far rest assured it will be a tough act to follow.

[ComplexNumber]

Try this search (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/search.php?searchid=4649783), then. best not to use links to search results because they usually become invalid after a few minutes or so (ie clicking on them after a few minutes or so will give: "no reported matches"). its seems to be a vBulletin thing because it happens on other vBullletin boards. i think its something to do with the way vBulletin assigns a number to each thread, but those numbers assigned seem to change after a while due to more posts being added etc.



I never bothered to try it, I had my fill of using RPM based distros (specifically RedHat/Fedora Mandrake/Mandriva) and their associated dependency nightmares. what makes you think that dependency hell doesn't occur equally with debian based systems?

[mstlyevil]

what makes you think that dependency hell doesn't occur equally with debian based systems?

I just installed Kubuntu 6.06 last night on my computer and ran into dependency hell. After i installed all my software and updates both debtags and Adept went into the toilet for that very reason. I had to uninstall both of them and install synaptic in their place to correct the problem. Debian based systems are just as likely to experience dependency problems as a RPM based system in my experience.

[Al3xanR0]

what makes you think that dependency hell doesn't occur equally with debian based systems?

perhaps you should have included this line from my post as well
This of course was long before they implemented their respective package managers (YUM, APT4RPM, URPMI).

I never insinuated that Debian systems were impervious to dep hell. furthermore, to corroborate my argument


After i installed all my software and updates both debtags and Adept went into the toilet for that very reason. I had to uninstall both of them and install synaptic in their place to correct the problem.

you replaced one package manager with another and solved your problem and that is wonderful, but I was refering to using a system that at the time of release, measures for resolving deps had not yet exsisted to the extent of comparable Debian systems of the time.

[ComplexNumber]

Al3xanR0

perhaps you should have included this line from my post as well

This of course was long before they implemented their respective package managers (YUM, APT4RPM, URPMI). i read all of what you had to say. perhaps you shouldn't have mentioned either fedora or mandriva because they both came into existance a long time after the package managers were implemented. mandrake had also been using urpmi from day one almost.
dependency hell existed equally with rpm and debians systems both then and now. it just seemed odd that you seemed to associate dependency hell with rpm systems as if it never existed in debian systems and was something that is associated with rpm systems only.

[Al3xanR0]

Al3xanR0
i read all of what you had to say. perhaps you shouldn't have mentioned either fedora or mandriva because they both came into existance a long time after the package managers were implemented. mandrake had also been using urpmi from day one almost.
dependency hell existed equally with rpm and debians systems both then and now. it just seemed odd that you seemed to associate dependency hell with rpm systems as if it never existed in debian systems and was something that is associated with rpm systems only.

Dude I have box sets of which I purchased of both Redhat 7.3 and Mandrake 8.2. URPMI was not included in that particualr release of Mandrake neither was there any formidable dependency resolver included in the RHT box set. However, Debian had apt-get, check your facts. You know what, never mind this is pointless...

[ComplexNumber]

Al3xanR0

Dude I have box sets of which I purchased of both Redhat 7.3 and Mandrake 8.2. URPMI was not included in that particualr release of Mandrake neither was there any formidable dependency resolver included in the RHT box set. However, Debian had apt-get, check your facts. actually, perhaps its you that needs to check yours. rpm systems have apt now. besides, like i say, urpmi has been in mandrake(now mandriva) virtually since day one. it was there in version 7.2 and versions 8 because i remember it. to prove it, read this:

Mandrake linux was the first rpm-based distribution to provide automatic resolution of dependencies with URPMI (which debuted in version 7.2), and its Graphical frontend, RPMDrake. URPMI can easily be setup to download and install binary RPMs (which include security updates) from local and web sources without the user having to interfere much. http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/Mandrake


lastly, urpmi was included in version 8.2 because here a reviewer mentions the features of mandrake 8.2:



Linux 2.4.18 kernel
Integrated menu system - menudrake
Spiffy New control panel
Ease of use for newbies (menus, supermount...)
Windows integration
DiskDrake is excellent and intuitive (JFS, XFS, ReiserFS, EXT3 & Encrypted Filesystems)
Multi-media (xine! )and peripheral support
Integrated file sharing and remote windows Framebuffer access (Rfbdrake)- Virtual Network configuration ...(I have yet to test this but it looks cool)
urpmi - the graphical rpm installer system rocks and is much faster
zlib and OpenSSH security bugs are fixed
http://www.xminc.com/linux/mandrake82.html