Russia starts blocking youtube. Thoughts?

[Dustin2128]

Here's the link (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Russian-Court-Bans-YouTube-149747.shtml). I personally think blocking an entire site for one or two offensive videos is ridiculous. It's like banning the internet because of trolls.

[RabbitWho]

Well, you see, [political statements edited out] and I guess that's just the way things are unfortunately.

[dacman48]

lol@rabbit

[Legendary_Bibo]

Return of communism?

[Dustin2128]

Return of communism?

Or fascism. I thought the russian gov't didn't care about this kind of thing. Or had bigger fish to fry such as a crippling debt.

[RichardLinx]

Well, you see, [political statements edited out] and I guess that's just the way things are unfortunately.


Return of communism?

heh.

[jerenept]

Well, you see, [political statements edited out] and I guess that's just the way things are unfortunately.

Yeah well....[removed due to CoC] i agree with you rabbitwho, these things will not really change will they?


BTW, all music is now banned. some music contains explicit language, and therefore we feel obliged to ban music. Political speeches are still allowed.

[tgalati4]

"In Soviet Russia, YouTube blocks you!!"

[prodigy_]

Provincial towns are always amusing when they try to look more important then they are. This Komsomolsk-on-Amur is further from Moscow than any European city. It's practically world's end do I didn't even know they had Internet providers there.

Ahh, and we don't have case law system like in the USA, so the importance of this decision is vastly overrated.

/yawn

[cpmman]

Originally Posted by cammin View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
This video contains content from Vevo, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.

[Dustin2128]

Originally Posted by cammin View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
This video contains content from Vevo, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.

[insert witty russian reversal here]

[Nick_Jinn]

Here's the link (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Russian-Court-Bans-YouTube-149747.shtml). I personally think blocking an entire site for one or two offensive videos is ridiculous. It's like banning the internet because of trolls.


Russia is heading towards totalitarianism again.....not the first time.

The US has some similar problems, but its private industry that blocks certain sites.....hardly better in my opinion when they have a defacto monopoly (charter or Comcast) and services that use public infrastructure are privatized.

[Dustin2128]

Russia is heading towards totalitarianism again.....not the first time.

The US has some similar problems, but its private industry that blocks certain sites.....hardly better in my opinion when they have a defacto monopoly (charter or Comcast) and services that use public infrastructure are privatized.
Yeah, in the US ISPs are usually mon/duopolies. Out here, you've got one choice for cable, one for DSL. Other than that, your only choices are dial-up and satellite. No fiber at all.

[prodigy_]

[insert witty russian reversal here]
Like "in Soviet Russia even YouTube doesn't rickroll you"?

Oh wait, I did it wrong...

[Dustin2128]

*sigh* sad is the day where I have to wait on a 30 second commercial to get rickrolled.

[lisati]

Originally Posted by cammin View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
This video contains content from Vevo, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.

[insert witty rejoinder about how some parts of my web site will block you out if you're not in Aotearoa/NZ]

[SunnyRabbiera]

Another good reason to use a proxy.

[TriBlox6432]

Fascism. Quite sad actually. FREEDOM TO THE PEOPLE!!!

erm.
>_>
<_<

[mikewhatever]

Here's the link (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Russian-Court-Bans-YouTube-149747.shtml). I personally think blocking an entire site for one or two offensive videos is ridiculous. It's like banning the internet because of trolls.

One ISP in Russia was ordered to block Youtube.
Please, stop spreading lies.

[Dustin2128]

One ISP in Russia was ordered to block Youtube.
Please, stop spreading lies.
Hence the title 'russia starts blocking youtube'. Ordering one ISP to block youtube implies that they will reserve the right to do so in the future.

[mikewhatever]

Hence the title 'russia starts blocking youtube'. Ordering one ISP to block youtube implies that they will reserve the right to do so in the future.

Who are they? Judges? Why would judges need to reserve the right they already have?
Anyway, the link you posted says that the ISP appealed the decision, which probably implies that nothing is blocked, not by the ISP and not by Russia.
Please, stop spreading lies.

[Dustin2128]

Who are they? Judges? Why would judges need to reserve the right they already have?
Anyway, the link you posted says that the ISP appealed the decision, which probably implies that nothing is blocked, not by the ISP and not by Russia.
Please, stop spreading lies.
I'm not spreading lies. I know that not all of russia is affected, and I do know that the ISP appealed. I'm just pointing out that russia's respect for internet rights is degrading.

[mikewhatever]

I'm not spreading lies. I know that not all of russia is affected, and I do know that the ISP appealed. I'm just pointing out that russia's respect for internet rights is degrading.

'Rissia's respect for Internet rights is degrading'? What have you been smoking? Do yourself a favor and learn how democracies work.

[Nick_Jinn]

He posted his thoughts on an article. Accusing him of making up lies just to trick people is going a little far. How about just sharing your own different perspective and leaving it at that?

[_h_]

Here's the link (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Russian-Court-Bans-YouTube-149747.shtml). I personally think blocking an entire site for one or two offensive videos is ridiculous. It's like banning the internet because of trolls.

Russia the next China?


'Rissia's respect for Internet rights is degrading'? What have you been smoking? Do yourself a favor and learn how democracies work.

Russia isn't a Democracy, it's a Federal Semi-Presidential Republic.

[Dustin2128]

Russia the next China?
Russia isn't a Democracy, it's a Federal Semi-Presidential Republic.
Ironic how Russia is being compared to china when soviet russia was basically copied by china for their gov't in the 50's and 60's.

[mikewhatever]

Instead of arguing back and forth with you, I think a little perspective is in order.


U.S. judge orders Wikileaks Web site shut down
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/20/world/americas/20iht-20cndwiki.10214457.html


Judge Orders Blocking of Torrent Sites in Spain
http://torrentfreak.com/judge-orders-blocking-of-torrent-sites-in-spain-100327/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Torrentfreak+%28Torrentfreak% 29&utm_content=Twitter


Danish Court Orders ISP to Begin Blocking The Pirate Bay
http://www.zeropaid.com/news/9244/danish_court_orders_isp_to_begin_blocking_the_pira te_bay/



The Pirate Bay Blocked by Ireland's Largest ISP

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Ireland-Eircom-Blocks-Pirate-Bay,8576.html

And don't even get me started on the Australian firewall initiative.

I hope you get the idea, and now, that we have some background on the subject, let's discuss the issue at hand. Quite frankly, I don't see what's the problem.

[Nick_Jinn]

Its not the same issue. While I support file sharing and practice it myself, those torrent sites often did break one law or another....I dont agree with how those laws are enforced, but its not the best comparison if you are looking to justify the government censoring what you can or cannot view on your own internet connection. Its not a very strong argument.

Furthermore, the 'you too' argument is a logical fallacy. It doesnt matter if other countries are corrupt, and many certainly are. That doesnt suddenly make Russia less corrupt.

[mikewhatever]

Its not the same issue. While I support file sharing and practice it myself, those torrent sites often did break one law or another....I dont agree with how those laws are enforced, but its not the best comparison if you are looking to justify the government censoring what you can or cannot view on your own internet connection. Its not a very strong argument.

As far as I am aware, the governments of USA, Denmark, Holland, Ireland and Russia do not impose internet censoring of any kind. In case you have evidence to the contrary, post it.
The judges that passed the verdicts probably thought the sites they ordered blocked broke the law. Don't you think that applies to the Russian judge that ordered youtube blocked?


Furthermore, the 'you too' argument is a logical fallacy. It doesnt matter if other countries are corrupt, and many certainly are. That doesnt suddenly make Russia less corrupt.

The 'you too' argument is irrelevant, you either don't understand or pretend not to. I am arguing against preconceived ideas and double standards here. Why would people not draw conclusions on the state of democracy, based on the decision of a Danish judge to block a web site, but would loudly condemn a similar decision of a Russian judge as being undemocratic or corrupt? IMO, this is either pure hypocrisy or preposterous ignorance.

[Nick_Jinn]

I have not argued that the US government has been censoring the internet. Where exactly did I say that? :?

And am not the one making the 'you too' argument, or rather 'them too'.


Thats fine if you want to point out a double standard, though you have supplied no evidence that Dustin supports censorship in those countries but not in Russia. As far as the discussion we are having about Russia, your examples are irrelevant and do not support your defense of Russia.

[mikewhatever]

I have not argued that the US government has been censoring the internet. Where exactly did I say that? :?
Did I say you said that?
Yet, since you've asked, you've mentioned 'government censorship' in post #28. What were you referring to?


And am not the one making the 'you too' argument, or rather 'them too'.
You are not? Why then did you bring it up?



Thats fine if you want to point out a double standard, though you have supplied no evidence that Dustin supports censorship in those countries but not in Russia. As far as the discussion we are having about Russia, your examples are irrelevant and do not support your defense of Russia.

I couldn't care less if Dustin, or anyone else for that matter, supported censorship. Not really sure why you keep bringing it up. Can you post evidence of government censorship in Russia or any of the other countries I mentioned earlier.

[Cabalbl4]

IMO, there is no internet censorship in Russia. But there are people (e.g. judges) who do not understand what the internet is. They "censorship" attempts are futile, and will just be ignored as many other "so-called laws" are.

[Frogs Hair]

Because I don't live in Russia and know nothing about how web access is controled there , I have know idea if the powers that be could even enforce this. Freedom of speech is difficult to discuss without becoming political .

[Nick_Jinn]

You are not? Why then did you bring it up?

Arguing with you is kind of odd. Everything gets twisted around.

I brought it up because I accused you of it. I am not trying to make a 'you too argument'. I am making an argument against 'you too' type arguments....that makes sense right? I felt you were making a 'you too' argument when you evoked hypocrisy.


I couldn't care less if Dustin, or anyone else for that matter, supported censorship. Not really sure why you keep bringing it up.

You are the one who was saying you were pointing out hypocrisy....but if you dont really care if they were hypocrites then why did you say that? Was it perhaps a red herring after your first argument was shown to be a fallacy? You have some rather slippery logic.



Can you post evidence of government censorship in Russia or any of the other countries I mentioned earlier.

The OP suggests censorship occurred in Russia. I know first hand censorship occurs all over the world, including the US....but not in the form of the government blocking what websites you can view, more by giving rights to a handful of corporate media while shutting out independent media.....we have also seen illegal suppression of the right to protest in the US.

The examples I mentioned of internet suppression inside the US was CORPORATE, not GOVERNMENT.

Do you take the time to comprehend what you are reading or do you just go with whatever sounds good in the moment? I see a lack of consistency in everything you say. One circular fallacy to hold up another.....maybe its not your fault though. You might not realize you are doing it.


Now before you have me pegged, I am a radical leftist myself. I just dont apologize for government corruption of any sort.

[mikewhatever]

Nick_Jinn, not sure what you've been smoking, but you must be really high.
:lolflag:

[Nick_Jinn]

Nick_Jinn, not sure what you've been smoking, but you must be really high.
:lolflag:


Maybe so, but that is yet another logical fallacy (ad hominem). 'You must be high therefor I am correct'. It could also be a red herring.

In one breath you show off topic of other countries 'for perspective', then when I say those examples dont stack up well to the OP you claim you are just arguging against preconceived ideas and hypocrisy (not an argument relevant to the innocence or guilt of Russia), but then when I ask why you are making these comparative arguments you then back peddle and say you dont care what people think or if they have double standards....?! So why did you mention it? As a red herring/distraction from the issue? So I suggest you are presenting a 'you too' argument, which is a fallacy, and you think that I am making a 'you too' argument, but I have not. Again, you misunderstood me. You asked me where the US government has censored peoples internet use, but I never claimed that. I said that corporations have taken it upon themselves to censor, like comcast, and that it was a corporate monopoly that did that and suggested that corporate monopolies are not necessarily less oppressive than socialist governments despite what pro-business capitalists on both the left and the right suggest....not once did I say the government limits what websites you view, at least not in the US.

So there are a number of misunderstandings here, but you continually fail to make a valid argument against Dustins claims instead relying on straw men, Tu Qourque (sp?), ad hominem and red herrings.


Is that about the size of it?


Now I am not that educated on the issue. For all I know you could be right about some things and Dustin wrong, though you have failed to make a logically sound argument supporting your position.

[mikewhatever]

Nick_Jinn, it's a pity you didn't understand my arguments, or perhaps chose not to, I've tried my best to explain. Be as it may, I've said what I wanted to, and hopefully, others will read and understand.
I'll not reply to your posts any more, as personal bickering is not my cup of tea.

[cariboo]

I'm going to close this thread for 24 hours to let the participants cool off.

Edit: Thread reopened.

[Dustin2128]

bump

[Nick_Jinn]

personal bickering is not my cup of tea.

Could have fooled me. Your response to this thread was rather negative and full of criticism.

I dont feel that your arguments used proper logic, though you have every right to your opinions.

[witeshark17]

Censorship always proves to be pointless over time... :popcorn:

[kamaboko]

They're starting a new site called WeOwnTheTube

[Nick_Jinn]

They're starting a new site called WeOwnTheTube


Really? That might sound really gullible, but nothing would surprise me anymore. It could be a rough translation of 'Russian owned Youtube'.

[drawkcab]

You'd think that they'd have other things to worry about. The death rate in Moscow has doubled due to this heat wave and they are already suffering a huge draught. Some are saying that 10,000+ may die as a result.

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/8/10/meterologist_record_heat_wave_in_russia

[Nick_Jinn]

I never thought of Russia as 'hot'. What is hot in Russia? 75 degrees Fahrenheit? 22 Celsius?

Anyway, thats horrible. Environmental changes are going to have real world consequences. I think water is going to be the next 'oil'. Canada is going to have to fight off the US when we try to steal their water for our golf courses and beef every night of the week.....Did you know that 95% of our water usage goes towards non municipal sources? Agriculture and Horticulture (mostly agriculture and specifically cows), industry, golf courses, ect....Taking shorter showers isnt going to help the water crisis. Its going to come down to choosing a less water consuming diet (Grains, vegetables, Fruits, beans nuts, fish and poultry....or tofu)..... Cattle grazing and feeding them grains instead of grass is a huge problem of water consumption and methane greenhouse gasses.....maybe more golf courses should switch to artificial turf, or perhaps a more rugged turf with crab grass and moss and dirt...you can make it look nice still, like a zen garden. Huge golf courses, cattle, and over consumerism are leading the way to the next big water crisis....and shorter showers are not going to cut it. You take 20 short showers every time you eat grain fed steak for dinner. Sporadic grass fed cattle might not be as bad, but Americans want beef 2x to 3x a day. Maybe fast food should start watering down their burgers with soy and grains. Its healthy.




That doesnt have a whole lot to do with censorship. I dont know all the details of the issue but I dont that Russia hasnt had the best respect for freedom of speech. They have brutally squashed many non-violent protests, including a gay pride protest. They dont have a rich culture of fighting to the death for civil rights....they are more concerned with getting fed, so the government gets a way with a lot.